Volquez or Hamilton?

by nice hands on Jul 13, 2008 11:24 PM CDT

Now that the ASB is here i wanted to know what all the ranger fans think about the trade. I know that Hamilton is having a great season but we really need pitching as you all know. This year Volquez has been a dominant and ultimately a consistent starting pitcher and very young. But i dont think Volquez would be putting up the same numbers here because he wasnt happy here.

Volquez- 2.29 ERA 12-3( although records mean nothing) 126 K 117 IP 5 HR

Hamilton- .310/.367/.552 21 HR 95 RBI 7 SB 5 Outfield Assists

Personally I still would rather have Hamilton for the RBIs, Defense, Homers and just being able to draw fans to the Rangers

Who would you rather have?

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No question

Hamilton.

by cmkelly29 on Jul 13, 2008 11:27 PM CDT 0 recs

yep.

hammy. he is a cornerstone to the everyday happenings here. besides, i have no doubt that if we’d kept Volquez he’d of been the same head case he was for us before he was traded…

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Jul 13, 2008 11:32 PM CDT 0 recs

How often

Can this question be asked?

by brettgardner on Jul 13, 2008 11:33 PM CDT 0 recs

Until one of them sucks?

Specifically I’m referring to people who have only now finally stopped complaining about giving up on Hafner.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 13, 2008 11:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

finally...

it might actually be an acceptable time to ask this question…

btw, -1 for quoting greggo….

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Jul 13, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

Why -1 for quoting Greggo?

The quote was about Greggo advocating trading Blalock, Danks and Diamond for Beckett….Right “-1 that” because that would have been an awful move….I’m sick of your anti-Greggo shtick.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 13, 2008 11:47 PM CDT up 0 recs

+ 1,000,000

Milly I have no choice but to nickname you "The Laborer".
Every time I see you on the mound you're laboring through the inning.
You sure as hell don't labor when you hear Dunkin Donuts is closing in
15 minutes, sat there with a chocolate eclair with 5 minutes to spare.

by LAMuscleFag on Jul 14, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up 0 recs

Hamilton

Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.

by TheBZA on Jul 13, 2008 11:34 PM CDT 0 recs

tough call...

Let’s put is another way, Cy Young vs MVP. I think this year Hamilton is more helpful for this team. However, next year, when we are truly contenders, having a true #1 would mean that we would only need to trade for a #2 starter. As it stands we really need two top of the rotation guys to be able to win a world series. So Next year Volquez would have been more valuable. IF, however, through our accumulated minor league depth we are able to trade for 2 top rotation guys during the winter meetings and ASB, then the rangers totally made the right call.

by Goyogringo on Jul 13, 2008 11:37 PM CDT 0 recs

Good analysis

Also you have to mention the fact that Volquez is younger and he doesn’t have the durability questions that is somewhat floating around Hamilton.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 13, 2008 11:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

head case?

volquez ptiched well at the end of the season and that is why the reds didnt want anyone else in our system (and JD did not want to give voquez), not main, beaven, ramirez, feliz, beltre, andrus….that should tell you that he had turned a corner and other teams had noticed.

Juan dominguez is a head case, volquez is a potential CY winner.

by Goyogringo on Jul 13, 2008 11:41 PM CDT 0 recs

How Many Games

Has Hamilton won us? 20? 30? The most Volquez could win us is probly around 15. If we didnt have hambone in our lineup, i know for a fact we would not be 4 games above .500. And his defensive is a plus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA

by mchang4 on Jul 13, 2008 11:49 PM CDT 0 recs

that's the wrong approach...

Hamilton makes the whole line-up better, and the whole line-up makes him better.

by oc on Jul 13, 2008 11:54 PM CDT up 0 recs

it shouldn't be based on wins and losses, in my opinion...

...it should be based on consistency…

obviously, the offense has been the biggest constant in this year’s campaign.

not one shutout thus far.

by oc on Jul 13, 2008 11:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

to follow up on that, the last time we only scored 1 run was on june 13th at shea

Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat

by nice hands on Jul 14, 2008 12:01 AM CDT up 0 recs

our offense is awesome

our pitching sucks.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 14, 2008 12:02 AM CDT up 0 recs

when our offense doesnt get a hit in an inning then it drops your jaw

when ian kinsler gets out then well when does he get out??

Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat

by nice hands on Jul 14, 2008 12:03 AM CDT up 0 recs

ian leads the league in fly outs with 135 and only has 86 ground outs in 398 at-bats

the anti-doubleplay

Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat

by nice hands on Jul 14, 2008 12:06 AM CDT up 0 recs

i don't think having Volquez would have made this rotation any more "consistant"...

by oc on Jul 14, 2008 12:03 AM CDT up 0 recs

i wouldnt say he had won us 20 or 30 games but maybe 10. besides WE NEED PITCHING....every year

Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat

by nice hands on Jul 14, 2008 12:02 AM CDT up 0 recs

Just curious

Why would you even ask? Do you have an agenda about the trade, in particular wishing Volquez was still here no matter who came in from the deal? This is another way of asking, how about doubting or questioning a trade at the time, and when physicals are passed, mark that chapter done?

Maybe I’m just a different mindset. To me, done deals are done deals, and constructive thinking should be given to filling gaps, looking forward. No remorse, no return to WalMart with or without a receipt, no do-overs. Heh!

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jul 14, 2008 12:06 AM CDT 0 recs

lol

Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat

by nice hands on Jul 14, 2008 12:07 AM CDT up 0 recs

I disagree

I am curious about the breakdown of how many people here would want to go back in time and undo the trade. It certainly is one of the most interesting trades in sports history given how well both sides have faired. Further, given how bad our rotation has been this year, I think people can and do make an interesting case for wishing the deal had not been executed.

As for other trades, sure you don’t want to be beaten over the head with past trade talk but at the same time if trades were really bad it is important to remember them and realize that the GM needs to redeem himself in future trades…something I think everyone thinks JD has done.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 14, 2008 12:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

yep

despite the couple of bad trades JD has made he has made some great ones

the texeira deal with feliz, andrus, harrison. andrus looks to be a great player, finally a power starter with feliz and harrison a solid lefty starter for texeira who isnt doing that good and we dont even need him the way chris davis is playing right now

the lofton deal. we lose nothing and gain a great hitter

the gagne one was pretty good despite gabbard sucking. i think gabbard can be a solid pitcher once he gets healthy. in april he was great

signing bradley

and most importantly rebulindg our farm system

Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat

by nice hands on Jul 14, 2008 12:52 AM CDT up 0 recs

You know, I think I posted the first one of these diaries back in spring training

I would like to wholeheartedly apolgize to the LSB community for starting the most redundant recurring diary theme of 2008.

Without Hamilton, our lineup is minus about 50 RBI and a good 15 HR’s. Volquez can pitch as well as he likes, but I’ll take the new cornerstone player of our franchise over him any day of the week.

A Lonestar in California

"My keyboard is a Yankees fan" - Whipsmart

by lonestarJon on Jul 14, 2008 12:58 AM CDT 0 recs

volquez is younger and a good pitcher...

Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat

by nice hands on Jul 14, 2008 1:10 AM CDT up 0 recs

We've got young pitchers

What we don’t have is another Hamilton, a 5-tool cornerstone player, who this franchise should be built around for the next 4-5 years or so. Sure, having Eddy V would be nice, but you can’t justify sacrificing Hamilton’s production for him – when the trade took place, we needed Hamilton more than we needed Volquez, and I think the same holds true today despite Volquez’ unexpected all-star emergence.

A Lonestar in California

"My keyboard is a Yankees fan" - Whipsmart

by lonestarJon on Jul 14, 2008 1:22 AM CDT up 0 recs

Thanks

for that new bit of info.

There is no such thing as "untouchable".

by miles on Jul 14, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up 0 recs

for fuck's sake...

"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08

.501 or bust!

by Jayslick on Jul 14, 2008 1:28 AM CDT 0 recs

hamilton

because the ballpark environment and team composition exploit/enhance his strengths much more than they do volquez’s. a left-handed slugger works here a lot better than a pitcher with serious control issues.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 14, 2008 3:09 AM CDT 0 recs

question:

is this gonna become the next “juan gonzalez” trade?

we won that one.
i would like to think that we won this one too.

...but like all trades look at it in ~3-5 years THEN judge it.

to judge on one year is foolish.

...even brady anderson hit 50 HR in one year.

look at the 3 year stats (or even better 5 year)

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Jul 14, 2008 6:23 AM CDT 0 recs

I, for one, thought all along

that Volquez would begin to fall off.

Last 7 starts:
4.00 ERA, 1.38 WHIP

Still pitching somewhat well, but not the Cy Young pace he was at for the first 2 months of the season.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Jul 14, 2008 9:58 AM CDT 0 recs

homer

wow what a homer…were you saying the same thing about Josh in June when he batted .278 and went 2-3 weeks w/o a home run?

by Goyogringo on Jul 14, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

278!

its a miracle we didnt send him down for that…

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 14, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

Life goes on.

"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants

by Chase Irwin on Jul 14, 2008 12:49 PM CDT 0 recs

No

Josh Hamilton goes on. Our lives have not been the same since that trade.

A Lonestar in California

"My keyboard is a Yankees fan" - Whipsmart

by lonestarJon on Jul 15, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up 0 recs

Hamilton

How many times do I have to say it…Volquez would have a 5+ ERA in the AL.

I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler

by ortonius on Jul 14, 2008 12:50 PM CDT 0 recs

by robert_d_wilfong on Jul 14, 2008 1:13 PM CDT 0 recs

Hambone

Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.

by dstar442005 on Jul 14, 2008 3:16 PM CDT 0 recs