Huh
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 16, 2008 4:20 PM CDT
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PrintBet the Rangers are busy right now trying to figure out what they can get for Nelson Cruz and Joaquin Arias before the July 31 trade deadline. Bet Arias gets traded before Milton Bradley
That would sure screw up my theory that Arias takes over for Young at shortstop next year...
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Arias
Has his value been any lower?
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
+1
I don’t see any point in trading him. You won’t get anything significant back.
Cruz, who knows, but this is just random.
"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants
by inactive lsb user on Jul 16, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
What the hell is going on in the front office in Arlington and who the hell is running this show?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
MLBTR
I saw something from MLBTR saying the Cards might be looking for the next Ryan Ludwig. Cruz would seem to fit this bill, but I have no idea what would be a reasonable return.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Jul 16, 2008 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions
As a Cardinals fan
I don’t know why there are all of these rumors about them looking for outfielders. Middle infield is a giant black hole of suck, the outfield is not the problem.
by mikedallas45 on Jul 17, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions
Black hole
Hey, you have to be careful using the term ‘black hole’ these days.
by GregoryM on Jul 17, 2008 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions
Value
Value is relative. It’s possible that the state of AL shortstops is so bad, that many teams are talking themselves into Arias.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 16, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Well
Hitting around .300 in AAA, and adapting to SS?
Not as bad as last year, certainly.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 16, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Some players just aren't very good.
If the idea is to hang onto him until he gets good, we’ll probably be waiting a long, long time. If they can get something that’s more useful to the organization than Arias, trading him is a no-brainer in my opinion.
Do you think they can
is the question here …
"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants
by inactive lsb user on Jul 16, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Probably not.
I would imagine the best they can do is a failed prospect for failed prospect deal.
Will his value ever actually be high?
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
Sure
It was 2004.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
Yeah, I guess
way back when folks were able to say “but he is young for his level” when folks were pointing out that he couldn’t hit and was an error machine.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
Adam...
why would you think he’d be at short next year, when his arm has the Wilmer Font secret-source mystery ailment?
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
I thought I've read reports that
he is getting some of his arm strength back…
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
His arm...
he’s letting Jeff Zimmerman borrow it. They have joint custody.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Jul 16, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
So you're saying that Arias has an all-star arm?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
then cut his ass...
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
Then cut the gun that shot everything????
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
So he went hunting with Dick Cheney, is what you're saying?
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
Longhorn...
king of the rational debate.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
Nah
He’s still young so I think it would be foolish to assume he will never get any of his arm strength back. That said, the reports aren’t very positive at this point and unless Arias regains most of his arm strength back, he will not be a legitimate option at SS at the major league level.
pay attention
Adam, have you not been paying attention? Arias is not even a fulltime SS at OKC. He going to miss tonight AAA all-star gme due to his shoulder. Is the ARod divorce taking up too much of your time? :)
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
Well...
Arias was hit by a pitch on the shoulder during the first game of the Round Rock series, and that’s why he’s out now.
But you are right, his arm is nowhere close to being 100% and he’s still using his entire body just to get a throw to first base from both second and shortstop.
At his best
how would you rate Arias’ arm / defense?
"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants
by inactive lsb user on Jul 16, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions
Both plus tools
Outstanding range (which he still has), he’s improved with the routine play. He could still use some help there, but he has definitely gotten better. And his arm pre-injury was great.
I’ve seen him at three different parts of the season with OKC this year and his arm definitely isn’t ready to play short. I guess it has improved a bit, but it’s obvious that it still bothers him a lot. Early in the season, I saw him bounce a couple of throws from second base. Now when I see him play short, he winds up and then uses his entire body just to make a routine throw to first.
with an off season
do the Rangers think it will improve? I don’t really care about his arm right now. I do care if it will be ready come next March. Eight months is a long time to recover and regain arm strength. What’s the long term prognosis?
Well...
he had all of last season to recover as well. He tried to come back around mid-season in 2007 and played just a few games. I happened to catch one of those games in OKC last year and his arm was nowhere near ready. So it’s been almost two seasons now and his arm is still not back to full-strength. I think the Rangers are getting to the point where they aren’t certain his arm ever will get back to where it once was.
Personally, I think if the Rangers are able to get fairly decent value for Arias, it’s time to pull the trigger. Even if Elvis Andrus hits a wall in his development this time next year, he’d basically be able to give the Rangers what Arias would, just with a better arm.
Plus, Plus...
He was a top 10 prospect going into the 07 season.
really overselling the young to 3b thing
i still think its a longshot that it happens for 2009 at all.
i think it happens after andrus has played a month or whatever in the mlb and establishes himself just a bit.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
Andrus
Actually if he finishes as strong in AA as his July’s been, I see him in AAA next year and a promo in mid-2009.
I’ll grant, that’s best-case but he’s been pretty fantastic for about the last month.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 16, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions
After Andrus has played a month in MLB?
Where is Andrus playing, if Young hasn’t moved from SS?
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 16, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions
they can find a way to get him some at bats
before outright moving young for him. but no, i cant say Im sure how.
possibly duran style. Young DHs once in a while, if we still have a stop gap 3b he could get a couple starts there…
im sure you would be opposed to bringing him up before he has every day at bats, but im sure rangers management will hesitate to move their 5 time consecutive all star for an unproven 20/21 year old. or the battered shell of joaquin arias….
now, if andrus really blows up and just becomes a dominant SS in the minors, reducing errors and increasing production… maybe it would be an easier sell.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
I don't see the point...
...of dicking around with a 20/21 year old uber prospect for a month, with him getting ABs here and there in a utility role, in order to soothe the FOTF’s feelings.
And I don’t think it is likely Young would move mid-season.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 16, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions
FOTF's feelings, fan response....
no, they probably shouldnt be considered.
but do you really think there is no chance at all they will be?
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
Fan response?
If you are worried about the fan response, just leave him at shortstop.
I just don’t see how a mid-season position change is practical, and I don’t see how having Andrus hanging around in a utility role waiting for Young to adjust to the idea of him being here is going to be comfortable for anyone in the clubhouse or have a positive on-the-field impact.
If you are moving Young to third base, you are going to want to make the move in the offseason so he can spend spring training working on it. And I think he’s going to be a lot more amenable about doing it before the season than in the middle of the season.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 16, 2008 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions
needing the time to change is definitely something i should have considered
and i just threw in fan response because it fit the things that don’t matter in a baseball since, but may be taken into account factor.
but still, I dont think moving young to third for arias or some stopgap shortstop was ever on the table an would be shocked if it happens.
revised scenario: young is the 2009 shortstop. we get a look at andrus in september 09. the rangers make the move in that offseason.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
Maybe we can package......
.....the two of them for Joe Blanton, maybe JD is the new Billy Beane and BB is the new JD. Maybe!
Joe Blanton?
Why bother?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
??
you really dont think he would automatically be our #1 or2 starter right now, who cares about his record look at his other #’s
by blueballlefty on Jul 16, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions
like his ERA over 5
and 4.8 era over 3 and a half years on the road?
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
that 4.8 era
would be third from our starters behind Hurley 3.6 and Padilla 4.7 so I wasn’t far off,
by blueballlefty on Jul 16, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
i didnt say he sucked
but you said look at his other numbers and his other numbers are flawed.
and trade games in oakland for games in texas and I doubt his era is 4.8 (with what he did thus far, he could certainly just perform better)
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
How about....
.......... his 127 IP or his 65K’s to 32BB’s
by blueballlefty on Jul 16, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions
plus
we are really not given anything up that factors into our future, and he is a guy that we could possibly sign for pretty cheap $10-12 million!
by blueballlefty on Jul 16, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions
I can't tell
Are those numbers supposed to support or refute your position?
SERIOUSLY?
127ip? 200 innings isnt chump change around here!
by blueballlefty on Jul 16, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
those strikeout numbers aren't great
and the walk numbers are pretty meh
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
Excellence...
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 16, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions
He is a free agent at the end of this year
Why would we rent him for 2 months?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
you're right
I’m still not interested.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
Yeah I saw that and stood corrected above!
Regardless, I can’t see him in a Rangers uni. Is Billy Beane willing to trade him within the division?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
blueballlefty said...
...he was a f.a. after 2009.
I’m not interested in Blanton, personally.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 16, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions
your not interested
for Cruz and Arias
by blueballlefty on Jul 16, 2008 6:18 PM CDT up reply actions
haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
well if you read my original post thats
what I suggested, and Oakland is looking for a 2nd baseman and a corner outfielder that can actually play the outfield, compared to what they got for Harden I wouldnt think that its that far off
by blueballlefty on Jul 16, 2008 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
Think again.
"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants
by inactive lsb user on Jul 16, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Cruz and Arias
if we could get cash considerations for them, I’d be happy. Neither of them has any future with the Rangers; Cruz will walk after this year and I have more faith in Drew Meyer than in Arias, I don’t think either has any trade value either, so if anything coming back has any value to the team, JD has done well.
If we can swing a middling pitcher who can eat innings like Joe Blanton then I’d be happy. But I doubt Beane would ever do that.
Yes...
But does he know that he knows nothing?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
No; he's evil like that.
"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants
by inactive lsb user on Jul 16, 2008 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions
There are known unknowns, and then there are unknown uknowns
Try and keep up…
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 16, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions
I pledge myself to your teachings.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
you guys
are too obsessed with these young guys just cause the Rays did it does not mean we can. Not everyone of our top prospects are going to be good.
How's Dshep's ass taste?
That's why they are called prospects
and that’s why it’s even possible to get them by trading veterans
Telegraph: Roses for Sale
Iorange555: Got tuna?
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 16, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions
Tuna rose?
Or even better, rose-flavored Tuna!
Bourgeoisie here I come!
How much does this speculation have to do with everyone not named Arias?
SS- Young, Andrus
2B- Kinsler, Vallejo
UT- Vasquez, Duran
Arias hasn’t just been passed at SS, he has slid across the board. And, with Andrus trending upward, maybe the Rangers are ready to see him at AAA sooner than we thought. The Rangers have done a good job at nabbing blocked prospects (Max, Salty), so maybe they feel they can do a good job on the other end as well.
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
At least we're not in Kentucky
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
Callis on Andrus
when asked in his chat today about rushed prospects he mentioned FMart, truinfel, and andrus… but only when he was with the braves. I know we have slowed him down a bit, but was it really that much or is it just that he is playing better since he came over in the trade. I tend to think its both, but either way its nice to hear something good about the rangers and developing players, or at the very least not hear something bad when talking about developing a prospect.
I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.
I think Young....
Is your shortstop in 2009 for sure.
for 2010 its going to depend on where Andrus is in his development.
Prediction
Andrus impresses so much in Spring Training..
MY to third comes alot earlier than most expect.
I am prepared for the bashing for posting this but maybe...
Given the defense on this team (worst in the MLB) and the offense (best in the MLB) would the Rangers consider moving Kinsler to CF where his speed would be a big asset, MY back to 2B where his defense would be a plus? I heard some commentator mention that possibility a week or so ago on ESPN radio and had not given it much thought.
That still leaves a hole at SS which Arias could fill when his arm recovers from the surgury last July until Andrus hopefully arrives.
Has Vasquez done anything this season to say he can not play 3B everyday in 09? He looks better than Hank in the field IMO.
Well
I don’t think Kinsler would be a good defensive CF, and I’m not sure Young, at this point, would be an above-average defensive 2B.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 17, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
lol
Grant thinks Doug Melvin was good. It’s not like TAG had anything to do with those teams…
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
Melvin was not great
but you do have to give him some credit for adding pieces. He is not a team builder, but he did help some in getting the team to the playoffs.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
If by getting help
you mean waiting til Pudge, Juan, Rusty etc. grew into their age 28 primes without trading them, then I guess so.
Melvin was about as overrated as they came.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
Burkett trade
was nice, signed Tettleton, hired Oates. He made necessary moves to add to the talent base he was given.
It is very possible to completely screw up a bunch of talent (Hart). I’m right there with everyone saying Melvin is overrated, but I’m not going to say he was a terrible GM and every success he had here was pure luck. That’s ridiculous. I’m all for beating down false idols, but I don’t feel the need to say he did absolutely nothing worthwhile.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
I'm not going to say he was terrible
but I’m not going to say he was great.
He defines mediocrity as a GM, IMO.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
bullshit...
...Ed Wade defines mediocrity… especially with his assessment on firesales.
by oc on Jul 17, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
The Rays are likely looking for a cheap right-handed right fielder to platoon with Gabe Gross. Any thoughts on the price tag for Cruz?
Longlorious.
Free Kila Kaaihue!
I don't think anyone really knows
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
RATW
Long time no see! Don’t ask me about Cruz price tag, I’m a (lonely) fan of his. It would probably amount to calling John Daniels and working out a ‘fit’. I also suspect JD would deal, and not necessarily for a known Ranger weakness (he is good at stockpiling short supply talent).
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jul 16, 2008 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions
46 pitches in two innings
don’t want to burn out his arm so they pulled him. See the prospect poll for further info.
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