The Phillies just got Joe Blanton
It's being reported on ESPN right now. The As are apparently getting three minor leaguers in return. So I guess Beane was not as sold on this team's contention chances as he said in interviews. This certainly can't hurt the As much, though,with Blanton not having a great year.
In return, the Athletics get:
2B Adrian Cardenas
P Josh Outman
OF Mathew Spencer
Baseball Prospectus ranks Cardenas, 20, as the third best prospect in the Athletics organization and a three star prospect. Kevin Goldstein projects him, in a perfect world, as Ray Durham without the speed, and had this to say:
The Good: Cardenas has good bat speed and outstanding hand-eye coordination, using his strong wrists to whip the bat through the hitting zone, leading to consistent hard contact with gap power to all fields. He has a good approach and solid pitch recognition, and gets high grades for his makeup. He shows decent speed once he gets underway.
The Bad: Drafted as a shortstop with the knowledge that he'd have to move, Cardenas continued to struggle with the glove on the right side of the infield in 2007, and need to improve his reads off the bat and his work around the bag. He's a little on the smallish side, and doesn't project for more than average power.
Outman, 23, is ranked as their fourth best prospect, also three stars, and is projected in a perfect world by Goldstein to be a solid middle-rotation guy.
The Good: Outman has excellent velocity for a southpaw, sitting at 91-93 mph with his fastball, and touching 95. His secondary stuff is solid, as he gets decent two-plane break on his slurvy breaking ball and has a deceptive changeup. His unique delivery makes his pitches difficult to pick up out of his hand, and scouts like his competitive fire.
The Bad: Outman's mechanics come with good and bad. While the combination of his arm angle and release point make it difficult to throw anything straight, he also has problems throwing strikes with any consistency. He tends to work high in the strike zone, and Double-A hitters made him pay the price.
Gotta say, for Blanton, that's not bad return.
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Blanton
really wasn’t that good this year, what do you think the difference is between Blanton and Gio Gonzalez is this year?
by FirebatM3 on Jul 17, 2008 5:53 PM CDT 0 recs
bah
let’s try that again
What do you think the difference between Joe Blanton and GIo Gonzalez is this year?
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 5:54 PM CDT
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Oh
and if the Phillies lose Adrian Cardenas in this deal, Pat Gillick has officially lost it.
by FirebatM3 on Jul 17, 2008 5:54 PM CDT 0 recs
Agreed
I’m excited to see what they gave up. If the As get better return in this deal than they did in the Harden deal, I’ll laugh (and cry).
Maybe Gillick was lying when he said he wanted to leave the Phillies in good shape.
by philkid3 on
Jul 17, 2008 5:56 PM CDT
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By some accounts
he’s already preparing for his next gig as an adviser in Seattle.
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 5:57 PM CDT
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What does he care
He’s leaving. He’s going all in.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
by TheBZA on
Jul 17, 2008 8:44 PM CDT
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Havnt looked
but i bet a’s nation isnt all that devastated by the loss
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Jul 17, 2008 6:09 PM CDT 0 recs
I share a blog with an As fan.
She’s freakin’ stoked.
by philkid3 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:09 PM CDT
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This is a bad deal for the Phillies
how much is Blanton going to be lit up in Citizen’s Bank Park?
And Cardenas is one of the top 2 2nd basemen in the minors right now.
by FirebatM3 on Jul 17, 2008 6:10 PM CDT 0 recs
Some info
About the same age as Kasey Kiker, in a similar situation. Hit .309/.374/.444 in A+ FSL this year. For reference, that’s better numbers than Marcus Lemon in a pitcher-friendly league.
23 moving on 24. Pitched in the Eastern League (AA) this year. 3.20 ERA in 70 innings with 68 hits given up with 66 Ks and 37 BBs.
Looks like the throw in, 22 years old in A+ and putting up a sub-.700 OPS
by FirebatM3 on Jul 17, 2008 6:16 PM CDT 0 recs
Yeah
The Phils got hosed. Cardenas becomes Oakland’s best hitting prospect, and Outman isn’t bad.
Effing Gillick.
by LiamP on
Jul 17, 2008 6:20 PM CDT
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Lemon
to be fair, Lemon is younger, but very nice 2B in Cardenas. Beane should have dealt Blanton in the offseason he could have gotten more than this. Cardenas is real nice, but I’m not impressed by Outman, and Spencer is, as you say, nobody special.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Jul 17, 2008 6:23 PM CDT
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Cardenas
isn’t exactly hurting there. He also has more power(though as Tball said, he is older, and more developed physically).
Best case scenario for him is probably Ian Kinsler but lefty and a douche.
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:27 PM CDT
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hence
the best case scenario tag
(and I agree, his upside is probably something like Todd Walker)
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:10 PM CDT
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not even close...
...Ellis is far superior on defense…
everything i’m reading on this guy is that his glovework is poor…
by oc on
Jul 17, 2008 8:51 PM CDT
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Diary updated
And thanks, Firebat. Couldn’t find anything on Spencer at brief glance.
by philkid3 on Jul 17, 2008 6:18 PM CDT 0 recs
Beane
Is front loading on 2B’men. Patterson, now Cardenas, is Mark Ellis not going to be re-signed?
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jul 17, 2008 6:32 PM CDT 0 recs
All signs point to no
they also drafted a 2B is Jemile Weeks
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:34 PM CDT
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2B?
I certainly am not qualified to question Billy Beane, but, shouldn’t you stockpile SS instead of secondbasemen?
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on
Jul 17, 2008 6:37 PM CDT
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i always thought 2b were shortstops who couldnt throw or didnt have enough range.
i certainly wouldnt “load up” on those guys.
"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08
.501 or bust!
by Jayslick on
Jul 17, 2008 6:38 PM CDT
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A lot of ppl
think Cardenas’ future is an OF spot
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:39 PM CDT
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Hey
First time on the front page. I feel the desire to make this look less like fail.
by philkid3 on Jul 17, 2008 6:40 PM CDT 0 recs
Since we are talking about the A's and minor leaguers
The LSB community’s top 5 Pitching prospects are in, and Harrison looks like he will be #6:
1- Feliz, 2- Hurley, 3- Main, 4- Beavan, 5- Kiker, 6- Harrison
The A’s top 6 in no particular order:
Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, Sean Gallagher, Michael Inoa, Brett Anderson, Henry Rodriguez
So, who ya got?
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on Jul 17, 2008 6:41 PM CDT 0 recs
Off the very top of my relatively uninformed head:
As are top heavy, we’re more consistent 2-6. I’d trade places with them, save for Feliz, but I’m comfortable.
by philkid3 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:42 PM CDT
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I see it as the other way around
their guys are all good-great (and I don’t think Gallagher belongs there), but our #1 (Feliz) is better than their #1 (Cahill)
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:45 PM CDT
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I probably should have put James Simmons there
Or even Italiano. Just kind of threw a list together.
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on
Jul 17, 2008 6:48 PM CDT
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Feliz vs Cahill
I think you could make a case for either pitcher. Cahill doesn’t have the Felizian fastball but his secondary pitches are more refined.
by jparks77 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:49 PM CDT
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I've only heard
that he relies heavily on his sinker, I always heard his 2ndary stuff is good, but not great.
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:50 PM CDT
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yeah, I read that
I’ve heard a few scouts this year mention that Cahill’s curve is actually his best pitch and that it is probably grades out as plus. His change is also a nice pitch.
I tend to like more cerebral pitchers like Cahill over gunslingers like Feliz but I’m not sure I’d be in favor of swapping them. Very tough call.
by jparks77 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:00 PM CDT
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So, if they called you with a 6-for-6 deal
do you do it?
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on
Jul 17, 2008 6:50 PM CDT
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That's where I would be with it
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on
Jul 17, 2008 6:52 PM CDT
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Also
I think the guy that tips the scale in their favor is Inoa, since I think Kiker-Main-Beaven-Hurley matches up decently with the rest of the As.
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:06 PM CDT
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Kind of pisses one off at the shadiness
of the A’s negotiations and the post-signing statements of his agent about the Rangers offer
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on
Jul 17, 2008 7:07 PM CDT
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I never read any statements
hook me up with a link?
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:09 PM CDT
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OK, so I found the story from the Star Telegram.
Turns out it wasn’t a direct quote (obviously) from his agent. What was said in the article:
According to MLB rules, teams are not even allowed to discuss money with players before the July 2 deadline. The Rangers were prepared to offer a larger signing bonus — well over $5 million, according to some reports — and word on the street is that afterward Inoa’s agent told a Rangers official that they would have taken the bigger deal if they had known it was coming and hadn’t already committed to the A’s.
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on
Jul 17, 2008 7:19 PM CDT
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Well
fuck.
We should get compensation for this shit
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:23 PM CDT
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and every other team?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on
Jul 17, 2008 8:13 PM CDT
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And the Rangers offered $5 million for him
He may never live up to it, but the hype alone puts him in their top group of pitching prospects.
And did I mention the A’s are shady.
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on
Jul 17, 2008 9:00 PM CDT
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the hype alone puts him in their top group of pitching prospects…
no it doesn’t.
by oc on
Jul 17, 2008 9:01 PM CDT
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It does when virtually every baseball person
that has seen him pitch echoes it. Like I said, he may never live up to it, but you are going to have a hard time finding a scout that doesn’t rate him highly.
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on
Jul 17, 2008 9:07 PM CDT
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yeah
hype is part of the value of prospects. hype has marketable value. inoa is probably worth a couple of guys that you think are closer to the majors
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on
Jul 17, 2008 10:41 PM CDT
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Just like David Price wasn't a top pitching prospect this winter?
A god rule of thumb is that if baseball scouts are all going nuts about a guy and offering him huge chunks of cash, he’s a legit prospect.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 18, 2008 1:31 AM CDT
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...sometime in 2010...
INOA OWNS A-Ball, OC RECEIVES FAX
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Jul 19, 2008 6:33 PM CDT
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good return?
If JD had traded Padilla to PHIL and gotten those players in return would you be happy?
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on Jul 17, 2008 6:43 PM CDT 0 recs
Different situation
We would probably want to get a better pitching prospect in return. If the said pitching prospect is one of similar caliber to Cardenas, then it would be close to robbery.
by Telegraph on
Jul 17, 2008 6:47 PM CDT
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Yeah
That’s about the way I was thinking. I would dance on the damn table. If we could get something like this for Padilla, trade him tonight.
by philkid3 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:48 PM CDT
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I'm curious
where do you guys think Cardenas would rank in Rangers position prospects?
Below or above Andrus?
by FirebatM3 on Jul 17, 2008 6:53 PM CDT 0 recs
well below....
i would think… Andrus is younger and playing in AA and with more upside than Cardenas has especially defensively and speed wise
by erikj07 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:57 PM CDT
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Fairly distantly below I think.
Possibly not even top 10, if so, in the back end.
by philkid3 on
Jul 17, 2008 6:58 PM CDT
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really?
just position prospects
I too think he’s well below the Ramirez-Davis-Andrus, but I’d say he’s above the next level guys (Borbon, Teagarden, Beltre, etc)
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:01 PM CDT
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I think he'd be on about the same level.
I have no issue with putting him above, though.
by philkid3 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:07 PM CDT
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Yep
that’s about where I’d put him, definitely below Andrus, but ahead of Vallejo in the middle infield mix.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Jul 17, 2008 8:54 PM CDT
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I might rethink that
several times both ways, but I suspect my bias would be in play if I put Vallejo ahead of Cardenas.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Jul 17, 2008 9:04 PM CDT
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Andrus by a lot
Younger, playing at a higher level, better defense, speed at a premium position
by Telegraph on
Jul 17, 2008 6:59 PM CDT
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ummmm
below. His defense has already pushed him off SS, and some say it will eventually push him off 2B. He has a year on Andrus and is a class below him. He has shown more pop, but less speed, worse defense, and less upside
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on
Jul 17, 2008 7:00 PM CDT
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So would you guys say
he’s top 5 position prospects wise?
Is he better than Beltre? Teagarden?
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:03 PM CDT
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Well, I wouldn't trade either guy for him
because of reports that he is a Left Fielder waiting to happen. At 2B or SS, his bat has good value and he rates just below the Davis/Max/Andrus tier….but in LF, I would have him below TT, Beltre, Borbon and hanging out with JMJ, Vallejo, Duran, Boggs, etc. Not to mention Justin Smoak will soon be on that list.
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on
Jul 17, 2008 7:06 PM CDT
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in terms of 2nd basemen...
below duran and vallejo.
by Goyogringo on
Jul 17, 2008 7:06 PM CDT
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I think....
you are overrating those two, especially vallejo… Cardenas would have to be above him I would think
by erikj07 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:08 PM CDT
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As a hitter, maybe...
but he is not in the same class defensively or on the bases.
by Goyogringo on
Jul 17, 2008 7:10 PM CDT
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I agree...
but the bottom line is that if he’s going to be a major league caliber player he will have to hit, and he’s going to be a much better hitter than vallejo. If Cardenas can get his defense together and not move off of 2B, then he should be an above average 2nd baseman overall. Vallejo is likely a utility man IMO
by erikj07 on
Jul 17, 2008 7:12 PM CDT
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look up their lines in A+...
Vallejo is better across the board. The comparison is easy as they have played in roughly the same amount of games. Vallejo is 1 year older however. So I guess we’ll see. Cardenas was moved off of 2b because he lacks range and that is a measure which does not improve.
by Goyogringo on
Jul 17, 2008 7:19 PM CDT
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