LSB Community Prospect Project: Mid-Season #13
After 252 votes, Matt Harrison has won the right to be called the LSB Community #12 prospect!
The list so far:
1. 1b, Chris Davis
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. RHP, Eric Hurley
4. SS, Elvis Andrus
5. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
6. 1b, Justin Smoak
7. RHP, Michael Main
8. RHP, Blake "C-Wun" Beavan
9. C, Taylor Teagarden
10. LHP Kasey Kiker
11. OF, Engel Beltre
12. LHP, Matt Harrison
Time to move on to the next vote.
The polls are open, so go ahead and vote in the poll at the bottom and feel free to make any suggestions and/or criticisms in the comments below.
And please don't hesitate to tell me you want on the list for next time.
NOTE: There has been some speculation as to what the criteria are for this vote. Should guys who are currently in the bigs be involved in "prospect" discussions? For the sake of this exercise we're taking what the guys have done in the big leagues and using the BA prospect formula of 130 AB's or 50 ip. If a guy is under those limits, he's still a prospect right now, so he goes on the list. It's that simple.
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Julio Borbon again
Is this finally the time for my man Borbon to overcome the hatred and get his due?
Or will the nefarious tandem of Z and Brian “Tomato Sauce” Thomas win out again?
Only time will tell…
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 18, 2008 8:24 PM CDT 0 recs
Boo
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on
Jul 18, 2008 8:57 PM CDT
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I'm going against the
BITA+ rule and picking the most “prominent” guy. If push came to shove I would keep Ramirez, Font, probably Perez, Santana and maybe Holland ahead of him. But they’re all (except for Holland) so unproven, and Borbon probably is one of the 10 or so best prospects in the system, even if he’s absolutely got to improve his approach and drive the ball a little more often.
by zywica on
Jul 18, 2008 9:02 PM CDT
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The way I pick
is I imagine that I saw an ESPN report that the Rangers had made a trade and given up a PTBNL and Peter Gammons popped in with information that the Rangers had included a list of 12 players the team could NOT choose (the guys already on the list). As I run to my computer to find out from Newberg or LSB who the player will end up being, which of the remaining players do I least want to see pop up as the guy we added to the trade?
For me right now that’s Borbon.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 18, 2008 9:09 PM CDT
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That's pretty close to
BITA+
If I’m going strictly by that method, Font would be my pick right now, Ramirez probably second. If the Rangers included Font in a deal, I’d be sick to my stomach, and I wouldn’t be if they did Borbon.
by zywica on
Jul 18, 2008 9:30 PM CDT
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That is how I am picking
Obviously Font and Ramirez have ceilings that are huge, but they are way far off, and Borbon is far closer with a pretty nice ceiling as well. He has a few obvious things to work on – but everyone does at this point on the list, and if those few things pan out, he can be a very good outfielder.
by JBImaknee on
Jul 19, 2008 10:31 AM CDT
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last time i voted borbon, but i don’t know now…. i’m feeling vallejo now
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Jul 18, 2008 8:26 PM CDT 0 recs
Neil Ramirez again for me
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Jul 18, 2008 8:27 PM CDT 0 recs
What's so special about Borbon?
He doesn’t walk and doesn’t hit for power and there’s little reason to think he ever will. He has some use as a #9 hitter or fourth outfielder, but why would you pick that over a guy like Hunter or some of the younger pitchers with higher upside (Ramirez, Holland, etc.)?
I just don’t get it.
by cstorm15 on Jul 18, 2008 8:47 PM CDT 0 recs
Because he has a number of other expectional tools
He’s blazingly fast and profiles to be a plus defender in CF, which is absolutely huge in this ballpark.
He’s a great baserunner who is going to be a threat every single time he gets on base. The kind of guy who messes with pitchers’ heads whenever he’s on base.
He’s shown the potential to hit .300, and with his high contact rate combined with his speed it’s not unreasonable to think he could do that in the bigs. If he can keep the BB-rate at around 5 or 6% (which he was showing in BAK), he could be a very, very valuable piece. In the very unlikely event he is able to nudge the BB-rate higher than that, he’s a freaking star.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 18, 2008 9:00 PM CDT
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Basically, you spent 3 paragraphs saying he runs fast
I exaggerate, but still.
How many guys are really that much of a difference maker on the basepaths?
I suspect hitting .300 with no power and no walks is a pretty sketchy proposition to count on as he moves on up to a deluxe apt. in the big boy sky.
He has the wheels for CF. True. He better. With no arm and what looks to be a low to mid 700’s OPS, he’ll need to.
I agree though, your Coco analogy is a good one, although I would probably sub Dave Roberts for the comp. He will have pretty good trade value if he keeps on keepin on. But to your last point above to Z, he is the guy I would most want to see traded, b/c I think his value is best served as a rhinestone trade chip.
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on
Jul 18, 2008 9:13 PM CDT
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Trade chip
Yah, I think he is going to have some serious value as a trade chip.
When I think of what the Mets were able to get for C-Go and the pitching prospect equivalent of a pu-pu platter, I salivate.
I think the magic number for Borbon is .350. If he can keep his OBP above that line, he’ll be really freaking valuable.
And, yah, I heart speed in a CF’er. I think having superlative range in the OF is underrated, and having a super fast CF’er is a big part of that, especially in this ballpark.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 18, 2008 9:18 PM CDT
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He has an arm
Its not a great one, but he isn’t throwing like Arias in CF. He also looks to have some decent power. Not a guy who will belt out many HRs, but a guy who will be able to hit for a good amount of doubles. With his speed, he’ll probably be able to turn some of those doubles into triples.
His best value to this team is probably as a trade chip, but he is a really good player right now.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg1 on
Jul 19, 2008 2:03 PM CDT
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He's Willy Taveras (with fewer strikeouts)
A useful player, but nothing to get excited about. Hopefully he’ll make a good trade player.
by cstorm15 on
Jul 18, 2008 9:34 PM CDT
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And Tommy Hunter is just Sidney Ponson
with fewer strikeouts. Everyone can play this inane game.
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 18, 2008 9:59 PM CDT
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Hunter
He’s more Joe Blanton, without the great park and defense behind him.
by Adam J. Morris on
Jul 18, 2008 11:44 PM CDT
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Watch
What’s s special about Hunter?
He doesn’t strike people out and gives up a ton of hits, and there’s little reason to think those things will ever change. He has some use as a #4-5 pitcher, but why would you pick that over a guy like Borbon who at worst is Juan Pierre with significantly better defensive abilities?
Seriously though, I don’t think it’s fair to say he will never develop some semblance of plate discipline or pop.
by LiamP on
Jul 18, 2008 9:42 PM CDT
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"there's little reason to think he will"
He’s 6’1” with a frame that could potentially fill out. A lot of scouting reports said he could hit for more power as his body matures. While it is true he’s not hitting for power, let’s not condemn him to Juan Pierre just yet.
You also underestimate how important it is to have a + defender in CF.
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 18, 2008 9:58 PM CDT
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Borbon also has three years of college stats
In 629 college at bats, Borbon hit .355 / .394 / .477 with 37 walks and 68 strikeouts. Compare to his stats at Bakersfield and Frisco, where he’s hit a combined .307 / .344 / .403 with 17 walks and 40 strikeouts in 365 at bats. This is a quicky and dirty comparison, but I’d say he’s hit about as well as anyone could have hoped for based on his three years of college performance.
He’s still a useful player because of his range in centerfield, but I think people are being too optimistic about his offensive potential. Sure, there’s always a chance that he could start walking more (even though his 4.7% walk rate this year isn’t much lower than his 5.9% walk rate in college), or he could start showing some signs of power for the first time at age 22. The more likely scenario is that his offensive performance will be batting average dependent. Maybe If he was putting up these numbers as a teenager (such as Carl Crawford, although Borbon has better contact rates than Crawford ever did), then maybe you could make the argument that there was more room for growth.
by cstorm15 on
Jul 19, 2008 9:00 AM CDT
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he also put up those stats
in one of the most pitcher-friendly parks in the nation (Tennessee). I don’t think you can say for sure what he is right now, simply because even as a 22 year old, he’s not exactly filled out. No one is arguing he will not be BA dependent as far as offensive potential goes, what people are saying is that you can’t project power based on past stats alone, especially for a player who could still grow into his body physically.
Nothing wrong with a BA dependent CF, there’s been plenty of those who have found success.
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 19, 2008 1:05 PM CDT
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Isn't power always
said to be the last skill to develope? Uh-hu.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on
Jul 19, 2008 4:27 PM CDT
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Went with Holland
though, honestly, any of about 5 guys would be ok with me here.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 18, 2008 8:48 PM CDT 0 recs
+1
Its time for the era of Dutch to begin. Sticking with him till he gets on this mofo.
I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.
by rchawk12 on
Jul 19, 2008 12:14 PM CDT
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Hunter again for me
A guy who is in AAA, looking great, and projects to be at least a great innings eating mid rotation guy (at 22) does the trick for me.
BTW, how awesome is it that he doesn’t even make the top 10 right now in the system and looks like he might barely be a top 15 guy. Last year, that guy is basically an automatic top 5
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg1 on Jul 18, 2008 8:58 PM CDT 0 recs
How many guys on the board throw triple digit heat as teenagers with projectability?
I count one.
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 18, 2008 8:59 PM CDT 0 recs
Until he shows he's recovered from his arm-related AIDS
I just can’t vote for him.
You’re right though, that ceiling is freaking unpossibly high.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 18, 2008 9:02 PM CDT
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His arm isn't really the issue
Font is going to the Feliz of ‘09. Book it.
by jparks77 on
Jul 18, 2008 11:29 PM CDT
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went with font
"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08
.501 or bust!
by Jayslick on
Jul 18, 2008 11:57 PM CDT
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Why y'all hating on the Dutch?
You can’t keep him down forever.
by Hull Fan on Jul 18, 2008 9:12 PM CDT 0 recs
Heh
Made me think of the, “You don’t like the Drake?” routine from Seinfeld.
Me, I love the Dutch. But he’s got some serious provin’ to do for I vote him above some of these other guys.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 18, 2008 9:14 PM CDT
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Dutch
should be a lot higher on this list, imho.
Of course, I think a couple of guys should be higher.
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 18, 2008 9:59 PM CDT
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holland
i think he’s going to be a good pitcher, and has certainly jumped onto the prospect scene but theres no way i could place him above anyone on this list so far
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on
Jul 18, 2008 10:02 PM CDT
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93 mph
with developing secondary stuff.
I love me some power pitchers, and Holland, I think, will probably end up a better pitcher than a lot of us think
by FirebatM3 on
Jul 18, 2008 10:12 PM CDT
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maybe
but right now i just dont see how you can put him higher than guys like main, beavan, kiker, teagarden and beltre
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on
Jul 18, 2008 10:15 PM CDT
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Problem with that is...
then who do you drop?
I would have some guys in a different order as well, but this system is so stacked (like Melissa Lima stacked) that there just isn’t room for all these guys in the top 10.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on
Jul 18, 2008 10:45 PM CDT
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Holland
I like him a lot of personally would rank him a tad higher as well, however I think as of right now he could slot in perfectly well at 13, hence my vote for him. I agree with firebat, he is going to end up being very good and we will all look back at this and remember how foolish you all were.
I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.
by rchawk12 on
Jul 19, 2008 12:18 PM CDT
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Tommy Hunter
Warner Madrigal is the Rangers most underrated prospect by a longshot; he SHOULD be be closing games within 3 years IMO. Matt Harrison is underrated too.
by dstar442005 on Jul 18, 2008 9:23 PM CDT 0 recs
I've been voting Font
I can’t wait until he’s pitching in games again.
by cmkelly29 on Jul 18, 2008 10:03 PM CDT 0 recs
font
i have to admit, i kind of forgot about him with his mysterious ailment and all.
i was big on him and santana being ranked high last season
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on
Jul 18, 2008 10:06 PM CDT
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Font
Toughest vote for me. He may have the highest upside of evryone left.
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on Jul 18, 2008 10:08 PM CDT 0 recs
He is my next vote
as soon as Holland gets on.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Jul 18, 2008 10:50 PM CDT
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font
Tremendous upside. Lots of length. A great motor.
by Adam J. Morris on
Jul 18, 2008 11:45 PM CDT
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Ramirez
Love the potential
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Jul 18, 2008 10:19 PM CDT 0 recs
+1
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on
Jul 18, 2008 10:20 PM CDT
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Where will Robbie Ross rank now?
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Jul 18, 2008 10:20 PM CDT 0 recs
Lower than he should, probably
until we know more about him. I will not be surprised if at this time next year he ranks in the top ten.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Jul 18, 2008 10:51 PM CDT
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I agree
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on
Jul 18, 2008 11:09 PM CDT
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Holland
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
by TheBZA on Jul 18, 2008 10:21 PM CDT 0 recs
The race for #14
With Borbon looking to be a shoe-in as LSB#13, the race for LSB#14 could come down to RHP Hunter vs LHP Holland. Interestingly, both guys pitch tomorrow night (Hunter vs Memphis at the Brick and Holland vs Visalia at Historic Sam Lynne Ballpark). It’s hard to argue against Hunter’s cumulative 3.38 ERA this year in three hitter’s leagues (CAL, Texas, and PCL) as a recently turned 22 year old or Holland’s 179 K’s in 166.2 innings in 1+ years at three levels of A-ball as a 20 and 21 year old. Both guys are adding velocity to their fastballs (Hunter up to 94 MPH and Holland up to 96 MPH) while developing their secondary pitches. Both have great control (Hunter has given up fewer than 2 walk/9 IP; Holland fewer than 3 walks/9 IP). I can’t decide if it’s crazier that these guys are legitimately only the 14th and 15th best prospects in the system or that there are other prospects (like Font, NeRa, Vallejo, and Duran) that can lay claim to being better prospects.
by spurdynasty on Jul 18, 2008 11:10 PM CDT 0 recs
It's settled then.
In the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately, everything right now, wanna be 32 at 12 society…I say we vote whoever has the best start tomorrow as the #14 LSB Prospect. Then whomever sucks tomorrow can be #15.
/srcsm
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on
Jul 19, 2008 4:34 PM CDT
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Holland on saturday night
Hunter’s start was pushed back a few days, but Holland didn’t disappoint with his start pitching 8 innings while giving up 2 hits, 1 R, 0ER, 0 W, and 9 K’s. In two starts at Bakersfield, Holland has 14 IP, 3 ER, 7 H, 2 W, 14 K’s, 1.93 ERA, and 0.64 WHIP. The sample size is miniscule, but Holland’s early results in High A are highly reminiscent of what he posted in 93 innings at Clinton (2.40 ERA, 8.7 K/9IP, 1.13 WHIP, 2 HR allowed).
For the second game in a row, Holland’s fastball reached 96 MPH and he produced a number of K’s with his slider.
by spurdynasty on
Jul 20, 2008 12:19 AM CDT
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Holland
Left-handed starter with 2 plus pitches, good command, good size, good performance.
Borbon & Perez just behind him, in my opinion.
by Baider on Jul 18, 2008 11:11 PM CDT 0 recs
won't be surprised if Holland/Perez/Borbon
end up ahead of Beaven and the group just below him
by Baider on
Jul 18, 2008 11:13 PM CDT
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While we are making predictions...
I predict that Holland will join Neftali in the Frisco starting rotation at the beginning of 2009 and that the two of them will terrorize Texas League hitters in much the same way that they did MWL hitters through the first half of 2008. Throw in Kiker, Poveda, and a cerebral veteran like Hyatt and you’ve got one of the better rotations in all of AA.
by spurdynasty on
Jul 18, 2008 11:29 PM CDT
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Holland
I wouldn’t be surprised if he pitched in Frisco this season.
by jparks77 on
Jul 18, 2008 11:31 PM CDT
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Agreed
A little concerned about innings pitched getting up there, but could see him in Frisco sometime in August.
by Baider on
Jul 18, 2008 11:46 PM CDT
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+1
I love this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA
by mchang4 on
Jul 19, 2008 12:29 AM CDT
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Beavan??
He has done nothing to us think he won’t be in Bakersfield sooner rather then later.
by tyd3311 on
Jul 19, 2008 10:07 AM CDT
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No strikeouts and too many HR's
He’s not the most deserving of a promotion on that staff.
by Baider on
Jul 19, 2008 12:22 PM CDT
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1 run in the last 19 innings....
doesn’t walk people, last game being the exception.
by tyd3311 on
Jul 19, 2008 12:34 PM CDT
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Strikeouts and HR rates troubling - that's all I'm saying
He’s a good prospect, I just wonder whether he’s got the upside to dominate at the ML level. I’d take Holland and Perez over him.
by Baider on
Jul 19, 2008 2:32 PM CDT
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you underestimate him..
he has the mentality to be great.
by tyd3311 on
Jul 19, 2008 4:04 PM CDT
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the loss in velocity..
could be the greatest thing to happen to him right now…
he’s learning how to pitch, not just throw.
i’ll bet his velocity slowly returns, and if it does… he will be great.
by tyd3311 on
Jul 19, 2008 11:33 PM CDT
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Gotta go Hunter
Hunter has advanced from Hi A to AAA in one season which is remarkable since his #’s are great (his K rate could be higher though).
I like Borbon a lot but his walk totals keep him from beating out Hunter. Hunter should be ahead of him.
I think Holland is a bit overrated for the next couple of spots. Did you know Holland is about the same age as Hunter and he’s only in Hi A now while Hunter is in AAA.
by Coolbean04 on Jul 19, 2008 11:52 AM CDT 0 recs
Will all you hunter voters just quit it.
he’s not a high ceiling prospect.
"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08
.501 or bust!
by Jayslick on Jul 19, 2008 12:58 PM CDT 0 recs
High ceiling projection isn't the only thing to consider
Hunter has a very good chance of becoming a starting pitcher at the major league level and his production this season has been outstanding. Given his arsenal, his age and his draft position, I think that makes him a reasonable choice to be in the top 15 in the system.
by jparks77 on
Jul 19, 2008 1:19 PM CDT
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That's my reasoning
Everyone has their own balance of how much they value projection in a player and how much they value their likelihood of reaching that projection. I think Hunter is at best a number 3, but he is very close to being able to achieve that ceiling.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg1 on
Jul 19, 2008 2:10 PM CDT
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I love ceilings
but even in a good system like this, when you get to this point in the rankings, the fact that he’s as likely as he is to be a solid contributor to a staff for several years is just huge.
by zywica on
Jul 19, 2008 4:08 PM CDT
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That's why
Font scares me a bit. How many flame throwing teenagers have never even made it to AA?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on
Jul 19, 2008 4:38 PM CDT
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