NEW POLL! Enter at ur own risk.....

by NYTXFAN on Jul 20, 2008 9:11 PM CDT

With the news coming out of Minnesota that Liriano is un happy with still being in the minors, or at least his agent is, would you make a package that Minnesota couldn't resist making. Liriano is definitely the type of pitcher this team lacks and we could match up pretty nicely.

Lets say we throw in one or both of Blalock/Bradley, and two top five prospects. They need a righty DH/RF and also they could use an upgrade from Lamb at third, even though Buscher has done alright but could benefit from the minors a little longer. Right there they get two upgrades for their current roster with power bats. Bradley could walk and they could recieve two picks so I think that would intice them. Blalock has a relatively cheaper option that is worth picking up and if he could regain full value then he is worth two picks.

This is where it gets tuff, the two top five picks. They are gonna demand a pitcher back. Feliz, Id imagine is untouchable and Hurley shouldn't go anywhere because this team needs a home grown talent. This team owes it's fans at least that. So beyond that who could we include. It is gonna be hard for Minni to tell its fans that they traded Liriano for anything less than a teams top pick, right? But this farm is sooo deep. I think they want a more high cieling, developing pitcher. A guy like Beaven, Main, Kiker, or Font could be included. Hell my man crush Harrison could be part of a deal if they are looking for a more quicker option for their rotation. I think they are looking for more of a A, AA type pitcher though because they have a good major league staff.

The other minor leaguer would have to be Andrus. They badly need an upgrade for the future at SS.

So after all that, her is the poll. Would you trade Blalock and Bradley, two of Beaven/Main/Kiker/Font, and Elvis for Liriano? Cruz could slide in right for the remainder of the year as a last audition, and Vazquez and Duran can man third until a better option comes along. Maybe we could even snag Buscher away from them. I like him because I've gotten to see him rip it up in Ra Cha Cha. Also we wouldn't be selling the farm for a useless fix but rather a major key piece that this team has always lacked, a true ace.

Poll

Would you trade Blalock and Bradley, two of Beaven/Main/Kiker/Font, and Elvis for Liriano?

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Comments

I don't think Minny

has much of a desire at all to trade Liriano.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 20, 2008 9:13 PM CDT 0 recs

Hence the, make them an offer they can't refuse.

Their current major league staff and carry them through the playoffs if they had some offense. The only piece in their rotation that I would upgrade would be Livan Hernendez.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 20, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

This isn't an offer they can't refuse....

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 20, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

Well it sure as hell upgrades them at two major league positions,

and gives them two future pitchers along with a shortstop that they lack. All very good upgrades then what they currently have at the major and minor levels.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 20, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up 0 recs

If you were Minnesota would you trade

Francisco Liriano for that?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 20, 2008 10:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

i would

it helps their offense for the playoff run, and beaven/main/andrus + the draft picks from bradley is a ton of value.

i wouldnt do that as the rangers. just too much for one guy.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Jul 20, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

If Im the .5 games out of first place Minni, then yeah I do.

They get one of the best all around hitters this year plus the two picks back at the end of the year. They also get a pretty big upgrade at third for the next 1.5 years giving Buscher and/or Luke Hughes more time to become major league pieces.

Oh yeah, not to mention they get two grade B pitchers and a SS that is named Elvis!

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 20, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

Also ID like to add that Minni is set at the following positions:

Catcher, 1st, 2nd, LF, CF, and SP.

They could benefit greatly from a RF, DH, backup Catcher, SS, 3rd, and possibly a bullpen piece(but really what team couldn’t benefit from adding another arm in the pen)..

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 20, 2008 9:19 PM CDT 0 recs

Sabean did a good job of selling high on Liriano

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 20, 2008 9:20 PM CDT 0 recs

Hah

Baseball Time in Arlington

by jamcadbury on Jul 20, 2008 9:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

trade offer

If I were the Rangers I protect Feliz and Andrus. They don’t need Blalock so I offer Bradley and let them pick one player at each level; AAA, AA and A. No more then 2 pitchers. So it would be Bradley plus 3 prospects for Liriano. It could end up something like Bradley, Hunter, Borbon, Holland for Liriano. Would that be too much?

"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch

by RangerMad on Jul 20, 2008 9:25 PM CDT 0 recs

I'm

with you… I want Elvis in a Ranger uniform. I don’t know if that is too much or not enough but I’d do your deal in a second.

by AirJordan on Jul 20, 2008 9:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

I second that, but more than anything

Id want Liriano here over Elvis.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 20, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yes, in my opinion.

I don’t think any combination works there.

Unfortunately, both teams deal from a position of strength here. I think that Minnesota can get whatever they want, or they keep a ridiculous arm. The Rangers, on the other hand, can just sit tight and wait for a better opportunity down the road and trade for that player(s) later. When that happens, both GM’s are likely to butt heads and never get anything done.

In short, I don’t see it happening, but I think that if they were to be willing to do a deal, something like Blalock, Kiker/Font, Hunter and JMJ would get it done. At least that would be my offer. But that’s me.

Ian Kinsler has finally earned the right to be the third of my co-favorite players.

by utlonghorn24 on Jul 20, 2008 9:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

by oc on Jul 20, 2008 9:27 PM CDT 1 recs

Loved that movie

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Jul 20, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up 0 recs

WoW, 75% as of 11:40 PM eastern time say no!

I’d like to know why. Actually I probably already know why, we are giving up too much right? Sooner or later fans are gonna have to realize that to get elite pitchers that we don’t produce our selves, then we have to give talent up. I put Liriano in that category. He has been lights out, imo, in Ra Cha Cha. I’ve seen it first hand and only wish the Rangers would snag a major piece like that.
09 rotation
Millwood
Liriano
Padilla
Hurley
BMac

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 20, 2008 10:44 PM CDT 0 recs

Not to mention I think the only piece I would be reluctant to give up would be Elvis,

but I think that would be a dealbreaker for Minni. They need a high cieling SS. We need a future SS.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 20, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'd love to have Liriano here

And buy Sheets at the next white sale. But I can’t believe MN will consider any offer for Liriano, making “blow ‘em away” just a figure of speech. If the deal could be done without including Andrus, even better. But don’t you think it’s really just a wish list?

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jul 20, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

Agree.

We need more than 1 stud SP to compete. I rather just wait for our prospects to develop (as hard as it may be to wait) then trade for one SP which is a very risky move.

by coolaid on Jul 20, 2008 10:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

Don't hold onto all of your prospects

make educated predictions on which ones will do well in the majors and trade the ones that you think won’t do well while they still have high value….

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 20, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think

that is a given. You have to be diligent in who you keep and who you trade.

Liriano has a lot of question marks so giving up a boat load of talent for him doesn’t make much sense to me.

by coolaid on Jul 20, 2008 11:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah, that's the idea.

But it’s much easier said than done.

Ian Kinsler has finally earned the right to be the third of my co-favorite players.

by utlonghorn24 on Jul 20, 2008 11:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

It's tough to do well

but it has to be attempted. That is why the GM’s get paid the big bucks.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 20, 2008 11:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

Agreed.

Ian Kinsler has finally earned the right to be the third of my co-favorite players.

by utlonghorn24 on Jul 20, 2008 11:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

That rotation still isn't that good

Now if we could make that trade and sign Ben Sheets, we could be in business….

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 20, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

And get rid of Millwood.

Then we’re set.

Ian Kinsler has finally earned the right to be the third of my co-favorite players.

by utlonghorn24 on Jul 20, 2008 10:53 PM CDT up 0 recs

Liriano

Here’s the question, though- is Liriano an elite pitcher?

Yes, he was very good in 2006. But he’s also coming off Tommy John surgery, has a grand total of 155 major-league innings, and you’re talking about giving up Blalock, Bradley, and two top prospects for him.

For that price, why not go get someone more proven?

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jul 20, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

Liriano is back to his old form

in AAA this year. Who else would you suggest? I am a Greinke fan.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 20, 2008 11:10 PM CDT up 0 recs

Sheets! Greinke! Liriano!

can we at least discuss going after a pitcher who isnt always hurt or crazy?

"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08

.501 or bust!

by Jayslick on Jul 20, 2008 11:41 PM CDT up 0 recs

Help me out

and list a few please.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 20, 2008 11:54 PM CDT up 0 recs

did you just ask me to name a pitcher i like who isnt crazy or always hurt?

there are lots of those. in fact most pitchers i look at in hopes of us acquiring in fact dont have a long injury history or missed years do to being crazy.

i know that may be a shock to the “Sheets! Greinke! Liriano! Crew” but im funny like that.

"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08

.501 or bust!

by Jayslick on Jul 21, 2008 12:31 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah

can you name a few young stud pitchers you think we should target and who will be available via trade? I’m just curious who you think we should be going after instead of Sheets, Greinke and Liriano (although I don’t think we have a chance at Liriano)

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 21, 2008 1:28 AM CDT up 0 recs

3 top prospects.

He’s saying 2 of Beavan/Main/Kiker/Font and Elvis. If I’m giving up that and Blalock and MB, I’d damn sure want a guy that’s steadier than Liriano. The risks are far too high with that kind of trade, especially when giving up that much talent.

by LiamP on Jul 20, 2008 11:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yep

That’s more than the Brewers gave up for Sabathia, or the Cubs for Harden, both of whom are a heck of a lot more proven than Liriano.

For that kind of package, I’d expect someone like Lincecum, Cain, or Kazmir.

Greinke wouldn’t be a bad target. Tampa has several young pitchers that I like- there’s no way they give up Price, but Davis, McGee, and Sonnanstine might be available. Homer Bailey might be worth taking a flyer on. Boston has Bowden and Masterson. The Twins have Swarzak and Robertson. Or there’s always Anthony Reyes in St. Louis and Scott Olsen in Florida.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jul 20, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up 0 recs

but liriano

has more upside than them, i think as much upside as any pitcher in professional baseball right now. his minimal experience and injury adds some risk, but the reward is certainly there. hes also under team control for longer.

i still dont thing id make the deal if i were JD. I favor spreading out the risk with a diverse portfolio of investments. if someone gets hurt or doesnt work out, you dont lose all that much, but if you put all your eggs (or a lot of them) in the liriano basket you are playing with fire.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 20, 2008 11:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

Here is the thing RC,

Even though the pitchers you listed might be more proven they have their question marks also. Sabathia is a free agent after this year and the Brewers did give up a couple really good prospects. The Harden deal was a steal for the cubbies, but I think Oakland did the right thing because of how often Harden is injured. Liriano when healthy, which he is, is much better, imo, then CC or Harden.

As for the other pitchers you mentioned, well I’d take any of those pitchers. Liriano is in that class of young pitchers.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

I would do it...

but Minnesota won’t deal Liriano.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jul 20, 2008 10:55 PM CDT 0 recs

Just wanted to say this...

We already have Liriano in the minors. His name is Feliz.

by AirJordan on Jul 21, 2008 12:02 AM CDT 0 recs

eye rolling emoticon

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 21, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up 0 recs

Imagine Liriano and Feliz in this rotation as your one two punch,

followed by Hurley,BMac, Harrison

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 8:46 AM CDT up 0 recs

I think I have heard of him.

Feliz Perez? Perez Filez? I am not sure which is correct. :)

"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch

by RangerMad on Jul 21, 2008 12:04 AM CDT 0 recs

your offer is waay too much

i would do bradley and blalock and maybe an alright prospect for liriano but that is still a lot

Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat

by nice hands on Jul 21, 2008 12:24 AM CDT 0 recs

haaaaaaaaa

well minny wouldn’t so why does it matter.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 21, 2008 1:26 AM CDT up 0 recs

after sleeping on it,

I think your right.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up 0 recs

No way man

Liriano is still coming off of arm problems that cost him the entire 2007 season – there’s no way you give up that much for him.

First of all, I don’t advocate making any deals the that involve mortgaging that much of our future for one guy right now, but there’s just no way in hell you trade away three top prospects plus Bradley for a guy who has yet to actually do anything good at the Major League level since getting hurt.

Look at how much people bitch over the McCarthy trade, a deal for a guy who didn’t even have an injury history before he came here… can you imagine what would happen if we gave up all that for Liriano and he didn’t perform or just got hurt again? People would riot at the Ballpark.

No freaking way do I make that trade.

A Lonestar in California

Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"

by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 4:55 AM CDT 1 recs

Okay after a night to think about it,

giving up that much talent is a little heavy. I think a deal could even get done with just Bradley, Blalock and one minor leaguer to be honest. If anything Im suprised Minni hasn’t called us and asked about some offense. They do have other pitchers but my crush is on Liriano.

I see Liriano pitch every fifth day in Rochester. I will tell you this, He is over his arm problems and the only reason he isnt up in Minni is because of how good they are pitching already.

I think a team looking to make the playoffs and looking for one or two power bats will give up their best prospects, and no Liriano isnt a prospect anymore but he is in the elite pitching group that I would trade four players for.

And oh yeah, Jon we aren’t really mortgaging the future. We would be giving up only one top 3 of our top 15 prospects. One top five and two 5-15 type pitchers. Blalock really doesn’t fit long term, imo. And Bradley is having a career year so sell high.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up 0 recs

Re: not morgaging the future

Two of Beavan/Main/Kiker/Font plus Elvis (our future shortstop) is mortgaging the future to me. Aside from Feliz and Holland, that’s a quarter of our best young arms we’d be trading away. Maybe if you took out Andrus I could live with it if they actually made the deal, but I still don’t think I’d advocate it.

Maybe I’m overvaluing our young pitchers, but to me, that’s the type of package you give up for a sure thing (like Zach Greinke maybe) and I really just don’t see Liriano as a sure thing. Whether he appears healthy or not, the arm problems he had are going to follow him for the rest of his career, limiting his pitch counts and causing everyone to draw a huge breath everytime he has a bad outing. I guess we’ll just have to disagree, but I don’t think it’s worth it.

A Lonestar in California

Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"

by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 9:05 AM CDT up 0 recs

Liriano>Greinke, imo

Im sure he won’t be the lights out pitcher he showed in 06, but I don’t see him ever being a flop or anything less than a number two pitcher. And I’d like to re write this trade.

I think it could be done with just Bradley, Blalock, and Elvis. Minni is a young contending team and they desparately need the offense at 3rd and right field. Elvis is the deal winner imo.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up 0 recs

Most are

against this deal, it appears. Personally, the original cost was a little high to me but the deal is the type the Rangers need to consider if they aren’t going to just wait for a bunch of 19 year olds to be 22.
So, what are you for the Rangers doing, specifically? I mean a target, trading parameters, comparison of your target to Liriano, etc. Stand pat and wait? What?

by mcgee48c on Jul 21, 2008 10:22 AM CDT 0 recs

My position

Is we’re not buyers this deadline. I think we should be watching the market on guys like Padilla and Bradley, looking to trade the spare parts like Byrd and Catalanotto, but standing pat as for as trading for someone goes.

A Lonestar in California

Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"

by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up 0 recs

Jon,

we don’t have to be buyers, I agree. But to get a pitcher like Liriano, trading two players like Bradley and Blalock who don’t fit in long term just makes sense. Throwing in a guy like Elvis should help Minni be more at ease with this trade.

I do realize my initial offer was quite a lot after sleeping on it. I would redo that trade by doing Blalock, Bradley, and Elvis for Liriano.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up 0 recs