Monday a.m. stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 8:35 AM CDT
164 comments
The Rangers salvage a win last night with a nice performance from Vicente Padilla and the bullpen. C.J. Wilson had as much movement on his fastball last night as I can remember him ever having.
Both Evan Grant's game story, and Jeff Wilson's game story, talk about how Teagarden has impressed with his defense, and may actually have wound up costing him a spot on the Olympic team, as the Rangers may end up sending Max Ramirez down today, while keeping Teagarden up with the major league team. Grant says that the decision will be made this afternoon, with a lot of it depending on whether Gerald Laird is deemed ready for a rehab assignment after he tests his injured hamstring today.
I'm not a scout, and don't profess to have any great insights as a result of watching players. And I'm also aware I may be subject to confirmation bias. That being said...Teagarden definitely looks different than any of the other Rangers catchers behind the plate, at least to me. He seems smoother, more graceful back there. I can see why so many folks ooh and aah over his receiving skills.
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Teagarden
I would gladly trade away Salty/Max in order to keep Teagarden as the starter. No question.
by jparks77 on Jul 21, 2008 8:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
especially with the offense we already have..
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
You can never have too much offense, not in our ballpark. And as many runs as we’re scoring this year, we still rely mostly on Kinsler, Hamilton and Bradley. If one of them is out of the lineup, we’re usually in for an off-day offensively.
I think that developing as many young offensively superior players as possible, and finding as many ways as possible to get them into the lineup is still key, and will remain key for the Rangers as long as they play at the Ballpark in Arlington.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
You can never have too much offense, not in our ballpark.
Why does our ballpark mean we need more offense?
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think what he meant was
you can never have too much offense with our pitching
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Jul 21, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but...
...hopefully our farm system will change that.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 9:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully hurley, mendoza, neftali, hunter, holland, feldman, etc...
will change that sooner rather then later.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did i use then properly there?
or is it than?
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think our ballpark means we'll always lack a truly dominant pitching staff
Hence, I think it will be necessary to maintain an offense that will make up for it.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why won't we ever have a dominant pitching staff?
I just don’t, really.
It seems that unless you’ve got a pitcher with truly one-of-a-kind stuff, they all seem to suffer in some way from pitching here in one way or another. I love our park, but because of it’s rep, I don’t think we’ll ever get an ace free agent to sign here (not in their prime anyway), and the chances that our system will produce multiple Neftali Feliz’s really isn’t that good. I think we’ll wind up with guys like Eric Hurley, who will be solid but not “great” filling out most of our rotation, and at times those guys are going to need all the offensive support they can get.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is that
Different than any other team though?
by brettgardner on Jul 21, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look at the recent #'s...
for TBiA and compare them to other parks.
It’s actually in the middle of the pack in many categories. There are a lot of other parks that are just as hitter friendly if not more so than ours now. The park is not the excuse. Shitty pitching is. That will change, it has to.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jul 21, 2008 8:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I beleive we were no hit..
just last year
at the our ballpark.
its the quality of pitcher we have run out there in the past decade thats the problem.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Buerhle's no-no was at US Cellular
In Chicago.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
was it?
oopsy
well you will agree that we have been dominated by pitchers plenty of teams in our ballpark..
need pitchers with good stuff, but also great makeup. mentally tough.
like Eric Hurley… so far seems like everytime he gives up a big hit or homer, he is immediately up 0-2 on the next guy.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
x
well you will agree that we have been dominated by pitchers plenty of teams in our ballpark..
See, e.g., Erik Bedard, late 2007.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
plenty of times in our ballpark.***
thats suppose to be
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's supposed
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 21, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's both
Like you said, people have shown that you can pitch successfully in Arlington. Heck, Kenny Rogers showed it for a few years. Where I think the park comes into play is that it wears on pitchers who log a lot of innings there. It eats at their confidence and undermines anyone with the inability to keep the ball in the park.
I think that it does take a bit of a unique pitcher to be really successful as a starter consistently. But yeah, it’s also the talent that they’ve rolled out there this decade.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not the Ballpark
It’s the bad pitching, as stated above, others have pitched well here (mainly other teams) but it can be done, people have pitched well in Fenway Park for a century and the same for right handers facing batters at Yankee Stadium, it all comes down to the pitcher, i do think it would be best to have sinker slider pitchers on our team along with high gas guys (95+ consistently) talent is what it takes to pitch in Arlington, same as anywhere else.
by TRFAN on Jul 21, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's both
There is still a pattern where most pitchers with decent backgrounds struggle more the more they pitch as starters in Arington. But I am not arguing that it’s not the pitching talent that they’ve had. That is the top problem, followed by the park and the inability to optimally develop what they have had.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Usually the argument is the other way around
With our ballpark, we’ll always score a lot of runs, so we don’t need great offensive players, and should focus on pitching and defense instead.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, by that logic
Then I suppose Young and Kinsler would need to go ASAP in favor of light-hitting vacume-cleaner infielders, and we should have never made the Hamilton trade.
Really, I just don’t think having a superior catcher is going to save that many runs (like having a superior shortstop of CF would for example). I think myself that all defense/no hit catchers are vastly overrated in today’s game, and if a guy can play average defense behind the plate but hit like a third baseman, why wouldn’t you rather have that added kick to your lineup instead of another mediocre bottom-of-the-order hitter?
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a good defensive catcher
makes contributions that are pretty subtle.
Say that a good receiver is able to influence a few counts from 2-1 to 1-2. That is a big difference for a pitcher.
And Teagarden doesn’t look like he is going to be a liability with the bat.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Jul 21, 2008 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My (very) unprofessional opinion is...
...that at the very least TT will have a better than average walk rate and better than average power (at least for a catcher) and therefore will not hurt a team too badly offensively.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not defending that p.o.v.
I think that argument is incorrect, just like I think the argument that we need to have a great offense because of our ballpark is incorrect.
I was just pointing out that the flawed argument that is used is usually the opposite of your argument.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are right
that the argument is incorrect. I suspect you are always better off playing to your strengths, rather than filling weaknesses. I assume its easier to get a hitter to TBiA and a pitcher to Safeco based on their reputations.
I also think in terms of pythags, replacing a bad hitter with a good hitter actually creates more wins than an offensively heavy team than an offensively weak team.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 21, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that should have been
more wins on an offensively heavy team than an offensively weak team.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 21, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I think it's the reverse
WPct = RS2 / (RS2 + RA^2)
So, take for example if a team had 100 RS and 100 RA. Increasing from 100 RS to 110 RS will lead to a WPct of .548 from .500.
If another team had 1000 RS and 1000 RA. Increasing from 1000 RS to 1010 RS will lead to a WPct of .505 from .500.
R
by Requiem on Jul 21, 2008 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
runs...
teagarden will minus the runs scored by opposing teams.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Call Webster's....
...we have a new verb.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that you can never have too much offense, but...
...that belief has nothing to do with RBiA.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defensive value
Seeing that the Rangers are going to be dependent on our young arms going forward, it would make sense to give them every advantage possible. A plus defensive catcher like Teagarden who excels at working with pitchers would be a very valuable tool in their continuing development.
by jparks77 on Jul 21, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
park factor
RBiA has a park factor of 100 for both hitters and pitchers. Park factor is a 3 year average. I do agree that the sorry state of the Rangers pitching staff does make it necessary to have a top offense. Where would this team be if they just had average pitching.
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on Jul 21, 2008 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TT
speculation:
What happens if Teagarden puts up the line that Salty is puting up right now?
Will people be OK with that because of his defense? Or will we hear the backlash that laird gets?
I think TT will be given a longer leash in the media and by the bloggers because he is a local boy and is a longhorn.
by clinton33 on Jul 21, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I don't think myself that Teagarden is our future starter
I agree, he does look really smoothe behind the plate. Like you AJM, I guess I see why people go ga-ga over his defense.
I still think either Max or Salty will trump him eventually due to their superor offensive skills, but Teagarden is going to virtually elimnate the need for Gerald Laird next season.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 8:41 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hearing that about CJ makes me feel good,
maybe he has found a groove.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 9:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
good movement
but his performance did not necessarily inspire a lot of confidence.
he seems to have some aversion to easy saves
by simplesimon on Jul 21, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact is...
He lost his head out there…
i mean those first two pitches to Morneau that he bounced to the plate… what the hell was that?
then hitting Morneau but getting bailed out by a horrible swing..
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't automatically assume
he had lost his head. I just think that pitch got away from him. He definitely kept his head on the next batter, which is important. Whether or not a guy advances on a steal, wild pitch, or passed ball, the pitcher needs to just worry about the batter. Get the batter out, problem solved.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
there were 3 pitches...
that got away from him, and there was no next better. Morneau ended the game.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops
I meant on the next pitches, not next batter. He didn’t lose control, kept his head and finished the game.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what were those first three pitches?
morneau helped out big time, with two horrible swings in the at bat..
c.j. got lucky.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Morneau swung at those
because he was fooled, not because he sucks. All that movement on pitches can make for unpredictable results. Maybe he did lose it for a couple of pitches, but a quick recovery under pressure if so.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That wild pitch...
...might have set a record for the farthest in front of the plate I have ever seen a pitch land.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Ankiel, this is Chad Crudup. Chad Crudup, meet Rick Ankiel
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 21, 2008 2:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel didn't immediately come to mind...
...but I do remember he had some monumentally bad individual pitches.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden...
...I still have a tiny amount of fear that he’s overrated by a lot of people because he was a Longhorn.
But I do think he will have at least a 10-12 year ML career.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 9:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I hear alot of people
talk highly about him not associated with this team or texas the state in general
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I mean is that a lot of people that I've talked to...
...that really like him and/or advocate him as the Rangers catcher of the future are also UT fans.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand..
I like him alot because when you here people of knowledge of the game and minors and prospects especially, seem they all agree that Weiters and Teagarden are heads and shoulders above every other catching prospect in the minors.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Law = Harvard; Sickels = NW Mo. St.
John (NF): Who is the best catching prospect in the minors outside of Wieters? Come on Keith, throw me a bone!Keith Law: Teagarden, Marson, Conger.
From John Sickels LSB Q&A 4/2008
Q) If you were the Rangers, what would you do with Jarrod Saltalamacchia, both in 2008 and long-term?A) I’d just stick him at first base. I think Teagarden is the catcher of the future, and using Salty as a catcher could inhibit his offensive development.
by robert_d_wilfong on Jul 21, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buster Posey
Will surpass Teagarden as the #2 catching prosepct in the minors as soon as he plays a game.
by sggut95 on Jul 21, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m obviously not a longhorn fan, but I can see the value of prioritizing players that are local and grew up as Rangers fans. They are more likely to want to be here and sign longterm before hitting free agency. Now, if there is a clear difference in talent, always choose the better player. But, we have 3 top level catching prospects and it’s arguable who will be the most productive longterm. Because of that, it makes sense to keep the local guy,well, local.
by aggiecurt05 on Jul 21, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Braves..
have implemented that strategy as well.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
means nothing to you?...
...who the fuck are you?
by oc on Jul 21, 2008 3:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden really creates a dilemma
because, as Adam said, while anyone who watches him catch sees how gifted he is in that aspect of the game, I worry about the other half. Teagarden has always had a good approach offensively and seems to have a solid feel for the strikezone. He also has a bit more power than I think scouts thought he would. But I do not think that pitchers are going to have a hard time getting him out. I am still not confident that we’re going to see more than, say, .230/.300/.400 type numbers from him. If that’s enough for folks, ok. I’d prefer to keep him and Ramirez or something lke that.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 9:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Balance
That’s a good thought, and perhaps the one combo we really shouldn’t end up with is Laird and Teagarden.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tea and MaxRam for me
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Too bad the stock’s so far down on Salty (and, yeah, Laird).
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 21, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+many Hamiltonian home runs
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was about to post the same thing...
Health is also a concern for me. Teagarden hasn’t exactly been a model of good health since he returned from TJ surgery.
by jcir454 on Jul 21, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically,
TT is a younger Gerald Laird only with injury concerns.
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but not full of himself
probably doesn’t proclaim himself as a 5 tool player.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to defend Laird to much,
but I really think that the original comment was more sarcasim than anything else. When I read the original Grant report that mentioned it, it really sounded like a joke to me.
Pinkey, Are you thinking what I am thinking? I think so Brain, but where are we going to get a burlap sack and a rubber chicken this time of night?
by LBBRangerFan on Jul 21, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about how he said...
something to the effect of..
its a joke that i have to compete for the starting catching position this year.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That statement kind of rubbed me the wrong way as well,
again, I am not really trying to hard to defend him against all of the complaints. Many of them are valid, however, I believe that the OMFT thing has gotten overblown from his original comment.
Pinkey, Are you thinking what I am thinking? I think so Brain, but where are we going to get a burlap sack and a rubber chicken this time of night?
by LBBRangerFan on Jul 21, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Tea has more power
And eats far less donuts, but other than that… yeah, good comp. Like t-ball said just above, the combo of Tea and Laird is the one thing we don’t want to see happen.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the two really are comparable,
then I think you have to trade whoever has the most value. So who has more value, TT or OMFT?
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hearing...
outside opinions on TT.. he is so highly regarded. He probably does bring us back the best player in a trade.
but i agree with trading Laird while his value is hight, damn injury..
And who knows, there may be other teams who still love Salty’ despite his woes at and behind the plate this year.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I don't know
I had been all for trading Laird this season, but that was when I still believed Salty had something. However, I’m not sure you trade Laird, who has an average bat and good defense, and keep TT, who has a worse bat but better defense and injury concerns. Laird would seem to have better balance of offense and defense. That, paired with TT trade value, makes me think you keep Laird.
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think no laird,
just like no teixeira,
would have zero effect on this teams win-loss record.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think back
to the days of Broussard and Shelton. You don’t think having Tex at 1st would have helped us win 1 of those games?
I assuming that you believe TT would have an effect on the win-loss record?
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not necessarily..
i just dont think we would skip of beat if gerald laird was permanently gone.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't you also say,
that this team wouldn’t skip a beat if TT was gone?
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to oc
Ramirez being behind the plate causes them to give up like 11 runs per game. So yeah, they might miss a beat. :)
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Z...
...you’re telling me there’s no correlation between Ramirez and the high-scoring games?
...not even the slightest hint that maybe Ranger pitchers aren’t comfortable throwing to him?
by oc on Jul 21, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just kidding, hence the smiley face.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's what I think:
If we keep Teagarden and Ramirez, then we have a great option for a backup catcher. Ramirez showed all of us that, even if he isn’t the greatest catching mind in the history of the game, he certainly isn’t so bad at it that he should be moved to another position.
by jwiscarson on Jul 21, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like
the idea of keeping Ramirez…..I’ve pretty much have given up on Salty…..Laird and TT is where I’m on the fence.
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't give up on Salty
I am surprised by just how bad he’s been offensively, but I think that people need to relax a little with him. He’s much better than what we’ve seen. I’m not saying that that makes him the number one option at catcher in this situation, but that he’s enough of an asset still that you need to be smart about what you do with him. I think that it would be a mistake to deal him now for 60 cents on the dollar just to get him out of your hair and “clear up” the situation.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You give up on a guy because of about 100 PAs?
by Telegraph on Jul 21, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe my expectations were too high
but when we got a ML ready catcher, I was expecting ML results.
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then your expectations were too high
Think about how many 22-23 year olds had poor starts to their major league careers and went on to be good to great players. Remember how bad Teixeira was early in 2003?
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But with Tex
you could see something. You could see improvement and glimpses of brilliance. I’m not seeing that with Salty….be it a relativley short period of time.
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't see
glimpses of brilliance? Where were you during the 30-3 Oriole game last year when he went 4-6 with 2HR, 7 RBI and scored 5 runs which tied the club record. I believe his bat went to the HOF. If thats not a glimpse then I don’t know what your looking for.
by 3bagbeast on Jul 21, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
so did Ramon Vasqez (4 runs).
I’m not saying that wasn’t a great performance, but even the sparest of spares have good games from time to time.
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure how that
jibes with with what you were saying about Teixeira being different, though. Through June 13 that season, which was, I don’t know, 55 games into that season for Tex, when he was 23 years old (and 2 months), he was hitting .225. And he was getting to play every most day for 2.5 months, unlike Saltalamacchia.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure what you define as "high"
Do you expect him to be a good player or do you expect him to be a good player immediately? If it is the latter, I suggest that you reconsider. Remember that we traded for Salty the prospect, by definition, prospect require development and carry large uncertainty (which is the reason why you can get him). If he is guaranteed to put up the performance that he is capable of immediately, you would probably have been looking at a straight up trade between him and Tex, instead of a bunch of other prospects coming along with him. ML ready prospects just mean that they are able to compete in the big leagues (i.e. not Brian Bocock), but does not necessarily mean that they can even perform at league average at the start.
It’s all good and fun to knee-jerk once in a while, but one must have realistic expectations when it comes to prospects, especially at the infancy of their major league careers. Think John Danks.
by Telegraph on Jul 21, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think Laird is a better bat than Teagarden?
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 21, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So laconic
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 21, 2008 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough question
But I think you trade Laird, because he’s currently at the peak of his value. Teagarden probably has more overall value (being young and highly regarded) but Laird’s value will likely never be higher than it is this year (you gotta remember, his career #’s are still only .257/.308/.387) and he’s arb eligible and a free agent in two years. So… I’d trade Laird.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to think that
Teagarden is a good deal better defensively, but yes, that’s countered by injury issues, and I think that Laird has more offensive talent as well.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laird/Salty/Max/Teagarden
All I know is that someone should go at the deadline. Lets deal some strength to get some pitching.
Maybe package a vet or two with one of these young guys for a nice return.
by SaltyGoesYard on Jul 21, 2008 9:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Salty trade
that’s what I vote for.
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 21, 2008 9:39 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree
at this point i think he is the odd man out.
We keep Laird until we are sure of what we have with Max and Tea.Laird for President
by rldwb on Jul 21, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I figured out how I did that.
Laird for President
by rldwb on Jul 21, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthals latest
The Rangers are getting calls on Marlon Byrd and Nelson Cruz; a Milton Bradley deal is unlikely.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 9:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What do people see in Byrdy?
He’s a fourth outfielder.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Stuff-You-Need-Brett-Favre-action-figure-bench?urn=nfl,93739
by BudLight on Jul 21, 2008 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a right handed bat off the bench and 4th outfielder probably
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad Washington doesn't see him that way...
...it appears that our fearless leader sees him as an almost every day player.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really want to see
John Mayberry up…
Not that im real high on him or anything..
i’d just like to see what he has.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Timing
From the way he’s hitting in AAA, if you called him up now you’d probably think that he has a big bag of nothing.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would have probably
thought that about the Twins second baseman, who was hitting .219 at triple A.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably
Flukes happen. It hasn’t gone on long enough to know that it’s a trend, but I think, given how surprising his early success in AAA was, that you have to wonder if AAA pitchers haven’t figured him out, and he’s now got to make the appropriate adjustments. I’d kind of hate to interrupt that process, if tha’ts what’s happening.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Benefit of the doubt
He’s put up a nice line in far more ABs than his current slump.
Coming out of this long a slump probably represents a lesson learned.
Do I sound like the dad from Eight Is Enough?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 21, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he is just bored..
i’d like to see us challenge him again..
see what he can do.
maybe he has nothing.. but i’d like to find out, and if now isn’t the time, when will be?
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's only been above A-ball
for about a year. I think there’s still time for him to improve and be more ready than he is now. He needed a lot of work and should probably be treated like a younger, less experienced player than he is.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Servais was quoted as saying..
we should see JMJ this summer.
So they must feel is he pretty close to ready.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I guess we’ll see how ready he is.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is in the midst
of a terrible slump, for about 3-4 weeks. Hope he snaps out of it soon. The only plus in that time is his walk rates have been good.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
was thinking that last night as well, at least in the midst of this his control of the strike zone seems improved over where it was at any point before this year, at least just based on BB/SO ratios.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although
his K rate has bumped back up to the low 20s % at the same time. But the ratio remains better. His BABIP for July is insanely low. I’m hoping that means he’s been unlucky and not that pitchers have found holes to exploit.
I have a hard time believing that the coaches would be saying such nice things if that were the case.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BABIP
Where do you get those numbers for the minors?
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 21, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, terrific site
I use it mostly because it lists K rates and walk rates by % for both hitters and pitchers. milb.com has splits, avg. against, then baseball cube has a nice totalling of career bb, K, and hr rates for arms, and avg. obp, and slg. for bats.
I wish one site had all of those things, along with SB and SB %, but I haven’t found one yet.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Casilla though is slotted as their 2nd baseman of the future,
he is a very good player. Numbers some times lie.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Jul 21, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If somebody comes up
I think it should be Cruz. I’d like to see him get the AB’s Byrd is getting right now, and Brandon Boggs, as much as I love him, is only hitting .194 or so his past 14 games… so right now I think the ideal situation would be Cruz up, Boggs down, Byrd on the bench unless he’s traded.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think thats fair to boggs..
and i would bet Byrd is traded.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with Jon
I feel better.
Laird for President
by rldwb on Jul 21, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's my opinion of him....
...on his best days. But I sure hope there’s a team out there that strongly disagrees with me.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Jul 21, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good defense...
from all 3 OF spots.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jul 21, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Confirmation bias
We are ALL guilty of that here to some degree. But I’m glad it wasn’t just me that looked at Teagarden’s starts and thought about how smooth he looked behind the plate. It was a stark contrast to the other three guys. I think this offense can easily carry him batting 8th or 9th and his ability to call games with lots of young pitchers coming up is a big plus to me.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
cerebral catcher
You always read about how coaches rave about Teagarden’s intelligence and knack for helping pitchers. I don’t know how much it helps to have a really smart catcher, but it is bound to help some.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Jul 21, 2008 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no evidence
But, I bet if you look at the really great pitching staffs you will find, in most instances, a catcher like Tea.
He looks good behind the plate and with our habitual pitching problems it seems that we need an average (or less) defensive catcher with a big bat like the proverbial hole in the head.
Laird for President
by rldwb on Jul 21, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Red Sox
pitchers swear by Varitek, who apparently does all sorts of things to prepare for games that most catchers do not.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lewin said something
that intrigued me about TT. he called him cerebral, which is something i dont see a whole lot in our other catchers. i think there is some prejudice for him amongst fans due to his homegrown appeal, but i dont think that will really affect front office decisions the way it would say with a superstar type prospect like mauer. i would love for us to keep him and give him a shot though, and send either salty or max down (preferrably salty).
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 21, 2008 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
1-0 win
not sure if it was mentioned in the gameday thread, but it had been almost four years since the Rangers won a game 1-0. Last done against the Angels on September 19, 2004.
by Randy Richardson on Jul 21, 2008 10:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It excites me..
thinking about the position were in…
and the value of a good young catcher..
i trust daniels and ryan to pull off something good.
whomever stays and whomever goes.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tea, Salty, Laird and Max
Laird should be #1 most experience and is(was) playing well, let Tea play in China (once in a lifetime thing) keep Salty as Lairds backup for now send Max down to gain catching and game calling experience, but to me LONG TERM Tea looks to be #1 (down the road) if he ever learns to hit that is a bonus with his catching skills.
by TRFAN on Jul 21, 2008 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Does Salty's dad
still post on here? I haven’t seen anything from him lately…
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 10:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think he quit
He was getting too much harrassment from the Salty-bashers. Which is kind of sad, because whether you like Salty or not, it’s always interesting to hear the opinions of someone closer to the inner circle.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I didn’t always agree with what he posted, and it seemed like he always had an excuse for Salty’s poor performance….but I liked hearing what he had to say.
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there are any "Salty-bashers" here
Just because someone doesn’t think Salty is the second coming doesn’t make them a Salty basher.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
I beg to differ. So do blueballlefty, Rangers Capt, and DJCahill (who was the one that ran off 525DP).
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bah
he cooked his own stew pretty often. I understand defending your son, but he was downright defensive and expected lots of sunshine blown up his ass regularly instead of objectivity.
I liked him posting here, but if he can’t take the heat he needed to stay out of the kitchen, and it appears he was wise enough to do that.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
but he is his Father and deserves more respect than what he received.
Laird for President
by rldwb on Jul 21, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is that?
Because he is the guys father. Sorry but if you continually come on here in defense of your son when the topics are obvious faults in his game then you deserve to get piled on.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 21, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man....
2 games, and one of them wasn’t real good behind the dish, and you guys are in love. Knee jerkers!
by bdavison94 on Jul 21, 2008 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
breaking up a perfect game..
with a shot to dead center didn’t hurt either.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN's Page 2 has a blurb about Teagarden
I apologize in advance if someone already posted this because SBNation is all jacked up on my work computer and I can’t really read anything.
WELCOME TO THE BIG LEAGUES, KID
Baseball can be a cruel game sometimes.Sunday, 24-year-old Taylor Teagarden got his second major league start behind the plate for the Rangers. He’d gone 0-for-3 Friday, striking out twice and showing the usual rookie jitters.
Sunday’s game was different. Twins starter Scott Baker dominated early, throwing five perfect innings. Meanwhile, Vicente Padilla also put up goose eggs, though he needed some help. A single and a fielder’s choice in the bottom of the 5th left the Twins’ Brian Buscher on first with one out. Testing the rookie’s arm, Buscher broke for second. Teagarden’s throw was a foot off the ground, right on the bag, ahead of Buscher by a mile. See ya.
The next inning, Baker plowed through the first two hitters, making it 5 2/3 perfect frames. That brought up Teagarden. Known for a strong batting eye in the minors, Teagarden tried to work the count in his favor. A 1-2 pitch missed the outside corner by an inch, causing the Metrodome crowd to groan. Another ball brought the count to 3-2. Joe Mauer put down one finger down for a fastball. Instead of painting a corner, the payoff pitch tailed right over the middle of the plate.
Teagarden connected and the ball took off for center field, where Carlos Gomez had converted so many fly balls into outs, using every bit of the park’s 408 feet to dead center when necessary. This time, Gomez drifted back, tracking the ball’s flight. About to reach the wall, he braced himself to leap—only to bang into the baggie. The ball sailed just over his head, into the first row of bleachers. Home run, Teagarden. 1-0, Rangers.
Teagarden’s teammates didn’t give him the usual silent treatment that a rookie gets when he hits his first major league homer, just some hearty congratulations. If anything, Teagarden looked like he was pranking himself, barely cracking a smile at first, briefly flashing a polite grin to acknowledge the congrats, then quietly retreating to a corner of the dugout to strap on the tools of ignorance. Three innings later, the Rangers secured a 1-0 win.
He knew. Today, the Rangers are expected to send Teagarden back to the minors. The good news is the move frees him up to play for the U.S. Olympic team in Beijing. The bad news is that with Gerald Laird and Jarrod Saltalamacchia, no organization has more major league-quality catchers than Texas. It may be tough to find a spot on the roster, let alone in the starting lineup.
If Teagarden needs encouragement, he can take comfort in knowing this is hardly the first time a rookie has performed well, only to have his team immediately send him back down. Last August, the Red Sox called up Clay Buchholz to start the first game of a doubleheader against the Angels. Backed with huge run support, Buchholz went six innings, collecting his first big league win. After the game, the Sox shipped him right back to Pawtucket.
Two weeks later, the Sox called up Buchholz again to face the Orioles. The result? Pretty good.
Keep your head up, Taylor. You’ll get another chance.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 21, 2008 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Teagarden definitely looks different than any of the other Rangers catchers behind the plate, at least to me. He seems smoother, more graceful back there.
I’ve had the exact same thought, Adam. “Smoother.”
by philkid3 on Jul 21, 2008 4:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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