On Nelson Cruz
Ken Rosenthal's latest has some tidbits on the Rangers:
The Rangers, who probably will not trade designated hitter Milton Bradley unless they receive an overwhelming offer, are getting calls on two of their right-handed hitting outfielders — Marlon Byrd and Nelson Cruz, who has hit 31 home runs in 314 at-bats at Class AAA. Both offer versatility; Byrd can play center, Cruz right ...
I agree on Bradley...I think he's likely a Ranger the rest of the year, in part because I think the Rangers want to bring him back after the season (and however nice the "trade him and then re-sign him" idea seems in theory, practically speaking, it is problematic), and in part because I don't think there's a team out there that is going to give up a whole lot for him, given his injury history and reputation.
Cruz is a more interesting topic, and more and more, I've been seeing people urging the Rangers to call up Cruz and let him play right field regularly the rest of the way.
Personally, I think it makes more sense to go ahead and leave him in the minors, and then get whatever you can for him at the trade deadline, and move on.
Why not call him up now, if your plan is to trade him? Personally, I don't think calling him up can do anything but hurt his trade value. If he comes up and hits well in a week or two of semi-regular playing time, I don't think it does anything to help his value. But if he comes up and flops, I think it does make him less attractive. Letting him continue to mash in AAA is the best way to keep his value up.
The other argument is to hold onto him...don't let him go elsewhere, but keep him here and see if he can be at least a part-time outfielder for the Rangers.
The problem there, though, that I see is that, strange as it may seem, the Rangers have gone from having holes in the outfield to being pretty full up there. You have Hamilton locked into centerfield, and I think the Rangers would like to bring Milton Bradley back next season and have him get the majority of the playing time in right field. If Bradley isn't your right fielder, you've got John Mayberry, Jr., who would seem likely to end up out there, unless you decide that Brandon Boggs should be playing every day.
And you also have Julio Borbon, who I'm starting to think likely is going to push Hamilton to right field in the next season or two. And your DH position looks like it is going to be filled by Max Ramirez when Bradley or Hamilton isn't using it to get a day off.
Going with Cruz requires a commitment to him that it just doesn't necessarily look sensible to make right now. He's 28 years old, has had opportunities here, hasn't done much with them, and looks to have been passed up by guys like Murphy, Boggs and Mayberry. I think it makes the most sense to see if you can get something halfway decent for him, a Beau Jones type A ball live arm, and move on.
If no one wants to give you anything better than a Scott Shoemaker or Michael Hernandez for him, and you can turn Marlon Byrd into something decent? In that case, I'd maybe move Byrd and let Cruz have the 4th outfielder role for the final two months. But I wouldn't be pencilling Cruz in as part of the long-term future of this team, even in that case.
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124 comments
Comments
Hardly
I’ve reconciled to the notion that he’ll have a five or six year (short) career elsewhere. Being the best RH power hitter in the system caught me up, and his MLB failure to hit puzzles me still. But if the Rangers pass him on, say to the Cardinals or elsewhere, I only hope they get back usable talent.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Jul 21, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cruz
<
Personally, I think it makes more sense to go ahead and leave him in the minors, and then get whatever you can for him at the trade deadline, and move on.>
Amen to that.
by Randy Richardson on Jul 21, 2008 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that
if you want to re-sign Bradley after the year, the time is now to approach him with a fair offer. If he seems to want significantly more, or wants to wait til after the season, I think you deal him. I don’t see a lot of value in waiting til the offseason to negotiate.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 21, 2008 10:22 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i'll bet after the deadline,
just in case they are overwhelmed by an offer, they will approach him about an extension.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather
do the negotiation when you still have alternatives if you can’t get a deal done. If you do it after the deadline, you might as well wait for the offseason. My guess is though, if you wait til the offseason, most likely MB will at least kick the tires on other teams.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 21, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
I think the Rangers are perfectly fine taking the draft picks if he decides to walk so offering an extension before thinking about trading him isn’t really necessary.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 21, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
im starting to come to that conclusion as well
im also thinking people are way overestimating the ease of resigning MB.
"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08
.501 or bust!
by Jayslick on Jul 21, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he will be a tough re-sign
I also think you will get significantly more for him if you trade him, than 2 draft picks. That’s why I would advocate trying to re-sign him, and if he hesitates, look to shop him. If he isn’t going to sign now, he isn’t going to sign in the offseason before testing the free agency waters, I don’t think
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 21, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lessen value
Would Bradley’s value go down if he were to sign a multi-year deal now before the deadline? I think the Rangers offer him arbitration in the offseason. If Milton accepts then they try to workout a multi-year deal. If he doesn’t accept, the Rangers happily take the draft picks.
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on Jul 21, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other catch to all of this
that I do think people think about (as they should) is that Bradley seems to get along great as long as a guy like Washington (and might there only be one guy like that in baseball that knows just how to handle Bradley?) is here. I don’t think there is any guarantee that Washington is going to be here for all of 2009, much less however long this extension would be.
And if you change managers, are you going to make “getting along with Milton” a key qualification? Do you really want to hire a manager based on that? Bradley had some pretty serious problems with Wedge, and even in other spots where his relationship with his manager wasn’t a huge problem, the fact that there wasn’t someone there to cool him off was.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the kind of decision
where I do not have much confidence in Daniels. I think he’s too optimistic on stuff like this and puts a little too much stock in chemistry and “character”. However, I am confident that if he feels like Bradley is too much of a risk for health and blowups (Washington’s soothiness aside), or if he feels the price is too high to keep him, he will not hesitate to let Bradley go.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DH situation next year
I’m a little scared to assume continued health from both Bradley and Hamilton, but…assuming they resign Bradley we’d have an outfield mix of Hamilton, Bradley, Murphy, Boggs and Mayberry, maybe Byrd if he’s still around. I’ll take my chances with that group.
DH might get crowded, though, if Ramirez is there and Bradley likely to need days off from RF regularly and also trying to rest other guys occasionally. Still, that remains a powerful lineup with tons of power.
Does that mean that only one of Laird, Salty, and Tea is traded and the other two catch? Or that two are traded and you sign a serviceable backup and stick Ramirez at DH? I’m not at all sold on Ramirez at catcher, despite his imitation of a brick wall and awesome throw to third.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 10:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Borbon
in the next year or two could make the outfield even more confusing.
by meatbonelefty on Jul 21, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
I think Hamilton and Borbon are the only sure bets to be here in 2010.
by northtexan95 on Jul 21, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a Borbon lovefest
Can we see if he can hit in AAA before we anoint him the next… Juan Pierre. :)
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on Jul 21, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the internet....
why wait. His replacement will be better any way. ;-)
Pinkey, Are you thinking what I am thinking? I think so Brain, but where are we going to get a burlap sack and a rubber chicken this time of night?
by LBBRangerFan on Jul 21, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hasnt stopped TT fans...
"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08
.501 or bust!
by Jayslick on Jul 21, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TT has an above average OPS
at AAA. His average does look bad, but I think we pretty much know what he is at this point. He’ll be lucky to hit .250 in the majors, but he’ll do it with a .330-.350 OBP and decent power for a catcher.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it
how can you label Teagarden as a guy who will “be lucky to hit .250 in the majors” when he had such dominance at AA? I don’t know if he’s ready offensively for the majors yet, and unless we trade 2 of our catchers this year, I see no reason to put him as the full time catcher on this major league team. I think he needs another half year at least in AAA to see if he can bring his hitting up there. Defensively, he’s good to go…but how can you just say that his true colors are the AAA numbers he’s putting together right now?
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 21, 2008 2:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say he couldn't do it
I just said he’d be lucky. Last year looks like something of an aberration, he’s not that good a hitter. You can count on him to draw walks, but he is not a .300 hitter.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not very hard to
label him as that. I think that his AA numbers deceived some people.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That problem can be solved then
and a lot can happen between now and then. Borbon still has work to do, and any number of things could go wrong or right over the next year or two with him or any of the other guys.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton and Bradley and the DH
I think the Rangers are going to make a concerted effort to minimize Hamiltons time in CF. I think if we bring Bradley back it will be as primarily a DH who can play the OF occasionally to give others a day off. I wouldn’t mind keeping Byrd for his CF abilities next year until Borbon is ready to come up and lock down that position. One of Boggs/Murphy/JMJ should get traded.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 21, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Byrd and Cat
are as good as gone, I would think. JMJ hasn’t proven he can hit MLB pitching anymore than Cruz has. The only constants I think you can rely on are Bradley, Hamilton, Boggs and Murphy. I wouldn’t mind rolling into 2009 with those as my 4 starting outfielders, with a fifth guy in Mayberry a possibility, as he could back up both the OF and 1B positions if necessary. Then roll with Max and the most experienced catcher left that we don’t trade: Laird, Salty or Teagarden. Max and Salty can both back up the 1B if necessary as well, although I would use that as an emergency situation. Borbon is a year away – I wouldn’t consider him a threat for anybody’s playing time just yet…
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 21, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have doubts
that Cat is as good as gone. I can’t see anyone wanting to take on that salary for the limited value he brings. $6 mil is fairly steep for a year and a half of a .750 OPS platoon DH with limited defensive skills.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 21, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leaving Cruz in the minors
That strategy assumes you’ll get significant talent back.
That makes no sense.
Get all your scouts together, pool the opinion, and go with that. Nelson Cruz is not a valuable player.
That said, is he the OF version of Carlos Pena?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 21, 2008 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Pena
He’s kinda been mediocre this year.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact
He’s been about as bad as he has ever been, even back in 2002-03 when he was in the process of going from an elite prospect to someone who couldn’t get a major league job.
He isn’t the only late bloomer around, though.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pena was great
when he was looking for a contract.
Not so great now that he has one.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 21, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pena was looking for a contract plenty of times before that
and didnt do anything.
he just had a career year.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Jul 21, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
outfield
It’s really nice that it has gone for a perpetual problem to an area of strength. I expect the Rangers to roll with Hamilton, Murphy, and Bradley next year with Boggs as fourth outfielder, and Borbon, Hamilton, Mayberry Jr. after that, with Bradley and Max at DH.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Jul 21, 2008 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
David Murphy
is going to scar you by shooting electricity out of his fingertips for leaving his name out of the OF discussion. He’s a starting MLB OF… on this team, both now and in the future, and on many others.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jul 21, 2008 10:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i think Adam didn't even mention LF
because he assumes that Murphy will be there for the future, even if he’s benched against lefties.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Jul 21, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps you are correct.
I assumed that if Borbon/Ham took CF/RF that JMJ/Bradley would take the LF spot. I may have assumed incorrectly. If so, -1 for me. If not, electricity from fingertips.
There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.
by SarasotaRanger on Jul 21, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JMJ
I don’t think he has the range the Rangers would want from their LF.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton could though
I don’t really think Josh will stick in CF past this year because of his durabilty concerns. But why can’t he play LF instead of RF when he gets moved? He played all three OF positons when he was in Cincy…
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
question:
are you assuming Hamilton will get worse over the next 3 years, or better, in regards to general health? I would assume that the more years removed from his drug use, the stronger and generally healthier he gets. That is, to a certain point, when his body reaches the age that all bodies start to break down…then it could hit rapidly
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 21, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's got a few years left of good health
But I do think that once he gets up around/over 30, he could begin to decline rapidly, as you said. I think the Rangers know that too, considering he’s really been playing a lot more RF than CF of late – so that’s why I don’t think he’ll have the label as the “starting CF” for a whole lot longer.
by lonestarJon on Jul 22, 2008 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borbon
would force Hammy to right forcing Bradley to left or DH and Bradley is way too athletic and young to be a full time DH.
by meatbonelefty on Jul 21, 2008 10:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton to left
I want Hamilton playing in the huge left field at the Ballpark.
by northtexan95 on Jul 21, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You want Hamilton in Right
because he has the golden arm necessary to be a dominant right fielder (keep guys from going from 1st to 3rd)...
In left field you want a rangy guy whose arm may not be his biggest asset – even Johnny Damon can throw guys out going from first to third on a single to left…
by JBImaknee on Jul 21, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It makes sense
If Borbon is your centerfielder and Hamilton and Bradley or Cruz are your other two outfielders. Both Bradley and Cruz have the arm to play right and neither have the range to play left field at RBiA. To me you align your outfielders for range over arm strength any day.
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Jul 21, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Left field is huge at the ballpark. If the question is Hamilton and Bradley, put Hamilton in left and Bradley in right. If it’s someone other than Bradley then it’s debatable.
by northtexan95 on Jul 21, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It still doesn't make sense
The main reason for having Hamilton in right is to keep him healthy while fully utilizing his arm. As various people have mentioned, our LF and CF (obviously) need to be rangy. Stick Ham at RF and you decrease the risk for injury, theoretically at least.
by LiamP on Jul 21, 2008 11:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Space in the outfield
The actual amount of space isn’t the big deal.
CF has to cover the RF & LF. Even on a ball hit into the corner, the CF has to at least trot in the general direction to pick it up if the RF/LF makes a dive or slams a wall. As a CF, you basically run towards every single ball hit into the outfield.
As a RF or LF, you cover the CF. When all is said and done, you run after 50% of the balls hit into the outfield (maybe a little more if you count a percentage for those that are too close to dead center and all 3 guys go for it).
Cutting in half the amount of balls you’re chasing after is the justification in moving a guy off of center. Having a little more space in LF as compared to RF isn’t going to substantially change the “risk of injury” to Hamilton.
Your low self-esteem is just good common sense.
by Oracle Galvez on Jul 21, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
The way you put it here, whether the org keeps him kinda sounds like a referendum on Max.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 21, 2008 10:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not really
not if they’re assuming Bradley is healthy enough to play RF instead of DHing every day.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Healthy enough to play RF
I got to admit, he hasn’t done anything to leave me with that impression.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 21, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but
maybe next year he’d be ok. I have my doubts.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3B
If you have an everyday 3B, then you can afford to have both Max and Bradley. You can’t have Max and MB split DH/C, DH/RF duties without a Chris Stewart type backup C. Without a FT 3B, you have no full-time UTL (Duran) and find yourself in a situation with a Laird-type guy playing 3B at some point.
by robert_d_wilfong on Jul 21, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
couple of other things on Cruz
Adam, you failed to mention that Cruz is out of options and will be a FA after the season if he is not on someones 40. He has had his chances. Time for him to move on for whatever JD can get.
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on Jul 21, 2008 10:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
agree
Pinkey, Are you thinking what I am thinking? I think so Brain, but where are we going to get a burlap sack and a rubber chicken this time of night?
by LBBRangerFan on Jul 21, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's understood
And I think that’s why it makes more sense to move him now, as well.
If he comes up, puts up a .275/.325/.425 line and doesn’t fit in the picture next year for us, you’re going to have less leverage, and get less value for him.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Value
The value you’ll get from Nelson Cruz, the human dice roll, is a bigger dice roll.
An A arm? Another Mendoza?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 21, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we could only hope to as get so lucky
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s why the real story is Bradley.
He will be traded. It’d be astonishing if JD wasn’t already weighing trade packages.
If you’re the Texas Rangers, you don’t hoard DHs.
You hoard PITCHING.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 21, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
which is what we've been doing for the past couple of years.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Danks and Volquez beg to differ..
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 21, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why..
volquez allowed us to get the most talented player in the game
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Danks
was traded for a pitcher, so that neither confirms nor repudiates a strategy of hoarding pitching.
by Back Door Yakker on Jul 21, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is what it is..
we have been hoarding pitchers, i mean look at all the stinkin prospects in our system, it started with the DVD crew.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, it was not like we traded Danks for a platoon left fielder
We got a starting pitcher in return, it was just a deal that has not worked out.
Pinkey, Are you thinking what I am thinking? I think so Brain, but where are we going to get a burlap sack and a rubber chicken this time of night?
by LBBRangerFan on Jul 21, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As we've seen this year
depth at pitching is a very good thing to have.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that includes a .290/.340/.500 vs LHP, different story
Plus defensive OF with a useable platoon split. Not a bad thing.
by Baider on Jul 21, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our outfielders
I’d love to move Cruz for an interesting arm, and I have little faith that what he’s doing in AAA is for real. With that said, I am uncomfortable with the notion that the Rangers have a full OF picture. They have one (1) quality OF at this point and a host of others with big questions. Mayberry and Borbon are big question marks, and Boggs and Murphy have made it clear that they are major leaguers but have not made it clear that either of them is more than a platoon type. If the goal is to have Hamilton and four other platoon, borderline 3rd/4th outfielders to go with him, along the lines of what they have now, then yes, the outfield is full. If they are looking for above average players, they have one so far out of three positions.
So again, if you can get something for Cruz, do so. If you can’t, his upside is such that you should have him in Arlington (at least post-deadline) rather than Byrd or Mayberry. You might as well make sure that you don’t have anything at that point.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 10:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Correction
They have zero outfielders without question marks. I would never count on a full season from Hamilton, always at least some risk there.
For 2009 I think the outfield situation is ok. Mayberry seems like the weakest link, but no one is playing insanely above their heads in that group so I’d think production would be satisfactory even if no moves were made to add anyone. For the long term I’d still like to see them acquire another CF as a hedge for Borbon, but for 2009 they’re probably ok, even with Bradley DHing. Pitching is definitely more of a concern.
Still, I like your idea of giving Cruz another look if a deal isn’t made. Nothing to lose there.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cruz
Trade Cruz for a pitcher….send him to Tampa for Niemann…...there must be some hidden reason Texas does not believe in Cruz…..can he hit a major league slider…..? I think he can….and after demolishing AAA give the kid a chance to have a career somewhere else….
by Split Decision on Jul 21, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No way
Tampa trades Niemann for Cruz alone. Maybe Cruz plus something else, but that something else had better be almost Niemann quality
by JBImaknee on Jul 21, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Debbie Downer
Damn you for letting reality get in the way of a pretty trade thought.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 21, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tampa would probably..
be more interested in Byrd.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suggesting Cruz for Niemann...
and the comment
there must be some hidden reason Texas does not believe in Cruz
Makes me wonder… did “nice hands” create another username?
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is Wade Davis??
anyone know much about him?
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
He’s a high profile pitching prospect, so people know quite a bit about him. You’re not getting him without giving up one of the handful of most important players in the organization.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
I think you need to see if Cruz has figured it out late in life, and lock him in as a COF. Mayberry Jr is the only COF that is close to being ready, and I do not see anyone who thinks he has more upside or better tools than Cruz.
by mattrpav on Jul 21, 2008 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Umm
Did you forget about Boggs and Murphy? Right now even including JMJ we have Hamilton, Murphy, Boggs and JMJ all locked up for at least the next 4 years. We don’t necessarily need a glut of OFs at the ready. Add in MB and possibly keeping Byrd around and we are fine next year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 21, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure that qualifies as a glut
Only Hamilton among those is an every day player to me. I’m comfortable with that bunch, but I wouldn’t say there is no room for improvement. Cruz does not represent improvement, though.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
COF is for power
Boggs and Murphy don’t have the power potential of Cruz and JMJ. JMJ is still developing, and may not meet the 25-30 projection. Cruz may not either, but he’s showing it now and I feel it should be determined here, in Texas, if he’s able to do it at the MLB level.
Cruz has a plus arm and is a solid defender, if he blossoms somewhere else, we’ll be upset we let another talent get away.
by mattrpav on Jul 21, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily
I hate this notion that specific positions are supposed to be for certain things. COF for power, CIF for power, middle for defense. Well you know what we have a CF and a 2B who provide more than enough offense to make up for slightly less “power” in a COF position. And in case you didn’t notice Murphy is on pace for a 20+ HR season.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 21, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that...
...having a CF and 2B that hit really well makes it acceptable to have a COF that doesn’t hit.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now AJM
that is an obvious over simplification of what bigsteve meant and you know it…
by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 21, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is...
...that sort of thinking is a trap, and ends up neutralizing the benefit of having strong offensive production from non-offensive positions.
That’s how we end up justifying putting Michael Young at DH down the road, because if Kinsler and Hamilton give us production from non-traditional offensive positions, we can have a 775 OPS DH.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 21, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a limited way of thinking
Traditionally, yes, the corner spots are for power. But if you’re worried about the difference in offensive contribution from that group of players, you’re not focusing on the right issues.
The Rangers lineup has lots of power already, including more than usual from CF and 2B. You could argue that in this ballpark, defense is as important as offense in LF, and Murphy and Boggs are providing a decent mix of defense and offense. Mayberry has power potential, but I don’t think he or Cruz should be viewed as potential starters.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe we could package blalock and cruz for a starting pitcher and a 3B prospect
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat
by nice hands on Jul 21, 2008 11:15 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And just what
kind of starting pitcher and 3B prospect you think we could get for a 4A outfielder and injury-laden, bad defensive, can’t hit lefties 3B?
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nomar and Chan Ho?
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
o sorry i forgot the critics look at my every post
Kinsler is the best player on the rangers(done), BENOIT SUCKS(done), bring up Harrison(done),new: Put Nippert in rotation, Mendoza to the pen, get Feliz to AAA by the end of the year, trade cat
by nice hands on Jul 21, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh come on now
You are just popular
by Telegraph on Jul 21, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's because
your posts have major flaws.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 21, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll do my best to skip over them from now on
Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .
by Brian Thomas on Jul 22, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unpopular suggestion: Trade David Murphy
Admittedly, it’s hard to figure out exactly what Murphy is. In the minors, Murphy was a pretty low-ceiling guy. He had a career minor league line of .273 / .343 / .407 and never had a year with an OPS over .800 despite spending five years in the minors and generally being a little old for his league.
Yet when he reached the majors, Murphy excelled. Last year he hit .340/.382/.534 in 43 games (with a 1.071 OPS in 22 AB against lefties). This year, he started off strong (.807 OPS in April), but he has since tailed off. He’s picked things up lately, hitting .293/.356/.537 in only 41 July ABs.
It’s debatable, but I still see Murphy as nothing more than the low-ceiling outfielder he was projected to be. If that’s the case, his value is probably as high as it will ever be, and it shouldn’t be hard to replace Murphy’s production in LF next year.
by cstorm15 on Jul 21, 2008 11:17 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
in the right deal...
sure trade him.
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Murphy?!?!
I KILL YOU!!!
j/k… :)
Yeah, I don’t think he should necessarily be untouchable.
Classic iorange555: "lmao too bad i watched [the all-star game] at a friends house ;[ much funer on here"
by lonestarJon on Jul 21, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Murphy/Boggs/JMJ
One of these guys will have to go in the next 18 months. With Borbon, and his contract, being ready at least by 2010, Hamilton, possibly keeping Bradley, one of those three will probably be dealt to free up a spot.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 21, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
you should be more than willing to do that if the right deal came along. The only real hesitation I’d have is that I really enjoy having his defense.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You bring up some very good points – his value is probably at its peak, he’s young and cheap and having a career-type year now, and there is no reason to believe he can sustain this level of production indefinitely. He’d probably fetch a pretty good return, or could make a package built around one of our catchers look very enticing (who could say ‘no’ to Salty + Murphy?)
My one worry is that an outfield with both Hamilton and Bradley is going to need a very strong 4th outfielder – or a 3rd outfielder who can cover the other positions when necessary. Murphy’s biggest asset is that he’s pretty good anywhere on the field, which is very important with the rest of the guys we’re running out there daily. Barring a “can’t refuse” sort of deal, Murphy is one guy who I want to have a spot on our roster even if his OPS is 100 points lower.
by JBImaknee on Jul 21, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isnt' every rookie year a "career year"?
Projections are great, but do they trump historical data? What have you seen to make you believe that Murphy can’t be a very capable platoon player—which, since he plays against righties, will give him the lion’s share of the ABs.
by robert_d_wilfong on Jul 21, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying he will get worse
but it is very possible that this will be his career year when all is said and done. Lots of players have their best season in their rookie year, then the league adjusts to them. Look at the rookie of the year winners – for every Jeff Bagwell and Scott Rolen, there is an Angel Berroa, Ben Grieve and a few Bob Hamelins.
Obviously some guys keep learning and getting better in the majors (Rusty Greer), whereas some don’t (Hank Blalock). I hope Murphy is in the first category, and everything we’ve seen says that he will be. That said, there is such a thing as projecting, and Murphy’s stats suggest that we shouldn’t expect him to be an 800+ OPS guy. Now, if he plays only against righties, he may do just that, and his defense makes him valuable enough to be a real asset.
Anyway, my argument is that he’s probably a very good 4th outfielder – a guy who can hit righties well enough and can play every position. Those guys are great to have. But the current perception of him as a young legitimate full-time left-fielder makes his trade value now higher than it probably should be.
by JBImaknee on Jul 21, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not saying he's untouchable
but I kind of doubt that his trade value is all that high. I think the majority of the league views him as exactly what he is … which is also what you describe above. So I think we’re somewhat saying the same thing about what he is, but disagree on how much value he might have as a trade chip.
I wouldn’t want him to be a throw-in in a deal just because he doesn’t necessarily project to be a FTer. I think you’d have a very cheap and potent LF platoon with Murphy and someone like Matt Murton with Murphy getting probaby 65-75% of the ABs against RHers and as a late-game defensive replacement.
That also gives you a solid RH bat off the bench, which the team could really, really use.
by robert_d_wilfong on Jul 21, 2008 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nelson Cruz = hitter version Joaquin Benoit
They both excel when there’s no pressure or expectations. You can just tell by looking at their faces how much they start pressing when they get put in a big situation.
by Jeff Lebowski on Jul 21, 2008 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Predictions
I think Borbon gets traded eventually. Fast toolsy CFers are always enticing trade commodities, and JD knew it when he drafted him. If he starts taking pitches and ups that OBP, then I want to keep him around, but if he doesn’t, he’ll still be valuable in a deal.
I doubt Cruz gets dealt unless part of a bigger deal. He’s simply not worth very much, and I don’t think JD can afford to trade him for nothing, only to see him learn how to hit a curveball wherever he goes. More likely, I see him coming up in August (for the reasons AJM mentions), and having one last cameo in Texas, after which we’ll say good-bye.
I’m not sure about Bradley. There are three options, all of which Texas is in good shape: 1> he’s dealt now for a good (not great) pitching prospect, 2> he walks after the season, and we get two draft picks, 3> he signs a 2-3 year deal in Texas. Honestly, I think any of those can happen.
I’m not holding my breath for Mayberry.
Because I think that long term only Hamilton and one of Bradley, Borbon, and Mayberry will be around, I think the rangers keep Murphy and Boggs.
by JBImaknee on Jul 21, 2008 11:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
we see a trade with the Cardinals involving Nelson Cruz and Vicente Padilla.
The Eagle has landed....
by Lonerangers on Jul 21, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chris Perez..
i’d like to see us come away with him, among others, if that is the case
by tyd3311 on Jul 21, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
that’s who i was thinkin’ of.
The Eagle has landed....
by Lonerangers on Jul 21, 2008 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this idea...
I’m not sure what you could get for it, but Padilla’s value (114 IP, 1.408 WHIP, 94 ERA+ this year) should at least be in the neighborhood of Joe Blanton’s (127 IP, 1.417 WHIP, 77 ERA+ this year).
And the Cards should be looking at themselves as competitive at least for the wild card…
by GhettoBear04 on Jul 21, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Padzilla's also getting 11 mil/year
Blanton’s significantly cheaper, still arb-eligible.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Stuff-You-Need-Brett-Favre-action-figure-bench?urn=nfl,93739
by BudLight on Jul 21, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring it on
...although I’m not sure exactly what they can give. They aren’t exactly loaded with young players and prospects. They wouldn’t give Garcia, I don’t think, and I can’t think of another SP that does much for me, just off hand.
by Brett Perryman on Jul 21, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pads or Millwood?
I think a Cruz+Millwood trade is more likely. The pitching coach for the Cards works miracles and they would probably rather have the post miracle worked Millwood based on personality. I could be wrong though.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 21, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AA
we also have harrison and s. murphy in frisco both having good years. I know harrison is a bit old but they could be up next year or good for a piece of a trade.
by mai on Jul 21, 2008 1:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
on on
is it a rule that every week at least blog’s title has to start with “on”
why not just title it “nelson cruz”?
i’m just joshin’
on another not. “joshin’” will no longer mean joking. because of josh hamilton, it will soon mean “kicking ass”
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Jul 21, 2008 1:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i got through
15 years of texas public education without ever proofreading. i’ll be damned if i start now
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Jul 21, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teams
Anyone have any idea on the teams asking for Cruz or Byrd. The Mets and Cardinals come to mind. Twins maybe? Some NL West team like the Dodgers?
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 21, 2008 2:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You don't bring up Cruz assuming...
he is worth any trade value which is assuming a lot. If no one is willing to trade anything significant for him then the only way to up his value is to call him up and hope he does well.
I don’t see how him mashing the majors even for a week wouldn’t increase his value. When did he ever really bash the majors?
by slimshadty12 on Jul 21, 2008 8:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I doubt it increases his value
as much as sucking in the majors would decrease it.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 22, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is how I look at it...
It would almost be expected for him to come up and not do that well for the first week or so. So if he struggled, ok it would hurt his value a bit, but it wouldn’t be a shock. What would be a shock would be if he came up and starting hitting some bombs and stealing bases like he’s been doing this year. I think he has more to gain by coming up.
by slimshadty12 on Jul 22, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh...
Leaving Cruz in the minors so Byrd can start 4 or 5 times a week makes no sense to me.
After the deadline if they both are still here Cruz should be up playing in RF the rest of the way imo. If you can get anything decent for Byrd at the deadline you do it. If you can get a decent arm for Cruz I would probably do that as well. I wouldn’t mind seeing some flexibilty with the roster if those two and Cat were traded.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jul 21, 2008 9:18 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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