Frankie Francisco vs. CJ Wilson

by lonestarJon on Jul 22, 2008 11:30 AM CDT

As I mentioned in my latest blog entry today, looking at the stats I think it's high time that Frankie Francisco should at least start splitting time with CJ Wilson in the closer's role. The last 14 games Frankie has been lights out, putting up a 1.29 ERA, a .160 BAA and 16 strikeouts to 4 walks. CJ on the other hand has put up a 6.08 ERA, a .316 BAA and 10 walks to 16 K’s in his last 14 games, and really hasn't been reliable at all this season.

Some other comparisons of their season stats reval the following:

ERA:
Frankie: 3.40
CJ: 4.89

WHIP
Frankie: 1.387.
CJ: 1.559

ERA+
Frankie: 122
CJ: 85

K/9
Frankie: 10.89
CJ: 7.87
BB/9
Frankie: 4.84
CJ: 5.10

BAA
Frankie: .238
CJ: .260

About the only category I can find where CJ actually holds an edge on Frankie is BABIP (Frankie is at .327 while CJ is at .304).

I don't necessarily propose taking CJ out of the closer's role completely, but I do think we should let Frankie take a few cracks at it, and see how he does. Because as abysmal as CJ has been this year, he's going to start blowing saves if he keeps allowing baserunners and runs at his current clips - and since he hasn't seemed to ever really improve his game for any kind of sustained period this year, I think we need to look at some other options. So what does LSB think?

Poll

Should the Rangers start giving Frank Francisco save opportunities?

1 recs | Comment 53 comments

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Comments

I give CJ

a full season.

by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 22, 2008 11:41 AM CDT 0 recs

Ditto

and there needs to be one more poll option:
No, let the year play out and see what develops.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 22, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

Frankie

He seems to be thriving his his current role. CJ has only blown two saves. No matter how bad he has looked and as much as everyone would love to have him be like a Rivera or KRod he is getting the job done. Why mess with it?

Now if he starts Cocoing saves and costing us wins then we can re-evaluate the situation.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 22, 2008 11:42 AM CDT 0 recs

+1

There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.

by SarasotaRanger on Jul 22, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

the problem I see

is that while frankie has been better, that doesn’t say much of anything because CJ has been awful. So if you pull CJ from the role then replace him with Frankie I don’t think it is a huge upgrade because Frankie isn’t exactly Rivera and the clubhouse morale could suffer. If we get a really lights out pitcher or if Frankie develops into one then yeah pull CJ otherwise just cover your eyes come the 9th

by bushe on Jul 22, 2008 11:43 AM CDT 0 recs

First of all, nice post

Second, WOW. I’m surprised Francisco is that far ahead of CJ in all those categories. I really didn’t know CJ had actually been that bad this year.

I think the idea of letting CJ and Francisco split time would be a good one, after looking at those statistics – but he definitely shouldn’t completely replace CJ just yet. As bad as CJ’s stats are, Francisco’s aren’t exactly sterling – he would have to seriously earn some keep before you gave him the role altogether in my opinion. But I do think that getting him some opportunities to do that is something worth looking into in the second half here.

by BlackHawk125 on Jul 22, 2008 11:48 AM CDT 0 recs

Frankie needs to work his way up to the 8th inning first

Pressure changes things

by mattrpav on Jul 22, 2008 12:00 PM CDT 0 recs

Please

how can you let FF start closing games only part of the time? What message are you sending CJ if you start doing that? You’ll put FF in a confusing role of closer/7th/8th inning guy (?) and you’re not helping CJ’s confidence either. Either you decide to make the move and go with it or you don’t.

There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.

by SarasotaRanger on Jul 22, 2008 12:00 PM CDT 0 recs

Avg:
Gerald: .306
Salt: .228

HR:
Gerry: 4
Salt: 5

RBI’s:
Gerry: 25
Salt: 20

OBP:
Gerry: .360
Salt: .329

SLG:
Gerry: .437
Salt: .342

OPS:
Gerry: .797
Salt: .672

AB’s/Games:
Gerry: 183/51
Salt: 149/43

SB’s allowed/ CS:
Gerry: 28/12
Salt: 33/7

by coolaid on Jul 22, 2008 12:02 PM CDT 0 recs

Hmn...

Interesting, but what does that have to do with this fanpost?

Please don’t try to troll LSJ, you just make everyone else suffer when you do.

by BlackHawk125 on Jul 22, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think

What he was trying to show was that in this case people are calling for Frankie to take over because he has better numbers. Whereas the catcher situation people want Salty to take over even though he has worse numbers.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 22, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

Frankie vs. CJ is a little different

Laird isn’t going to factor into the Rangers plans 2-3 years from now irregardless of whether we trade him or not. Salty, Max and Tea are the future, and Laird just takes playing time away from them.

With Frankie and CJ though, you’ve got two guys who should be on this team in key roles for several more years, so there’s a little more to debate there.

A Lonestar in California

by lonestarJon on Jul 22, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

Why do you say that?

Why couldn’t laird be here for the next 5 years and be productive? Hes only 28 and won’t be eligible for FA for another 2 years. The other three may be better and younger but your blanket statement that laird isn’t going to factor implies he is either too old or will be a FA. Neither of which are true. The only one of the three that comes close to him defensively is Teagarden and with his injury history we are only a throw away from being relegated to a defenseless catcher.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 22, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

There's that word again...

by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 22, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

It's here to stay...

...the quality of our society’s grammar only moves one direction…

Physician: Primum non nocere

Batter: First, make no out

by Chad Crudup on Jul 22, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

I could care less

if people use the word ‘irregardless’.

by Lo'Ranger(s)714 on Jul 22, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up 0 recs

Nice!

there’s another a good one…..”I could care less.”

by Anonymous New Guy on Jul 22, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up 0 recs

Exactly

Id of wrote it different.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 22, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

Relax man...

I don’t feel like a long arguement this morning either.

All you need to know about Lard vs. Salty is this

Laird: 28
Salty: 23

End of story.

A Lonestar in California

by lonestarJon on Jul 22, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

You should

work on your arguing skills.

by coolaid on Jul 22, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

end of story my ass

Hamilton: 27
Borbon: 22

So you are saying Hammy isn’t going to be apart of our future and we should go with the younger guy?

And before this blows up and people start giving me the “thats not the same” I fully understand there is a huge difference in their abilities and everything. My argument right here is that laird isn’t exactly an old man who only has a couple years left before retirement. He could very easily play for another 10 years if he stays healthy

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 22, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

Better example:

Hamilton: 27
Jay Bruce: 21

End of story, right?

by coolaid on Jul 22, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

I was going for more in our organization but I like it

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 22, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

Difference

Huge difference with OF since you can always shift them to another spot out there if the younger guy comes up. This is especially true with CF.

At catcher if you go with Laird you can’t fit Salty/Teagarden/Ramirez in anywhere except DH since Davis seems to have 1B for the forseeable future. Even if we get rid of Laird we’re still going to have one too many for those two available spots.

Laird just doesn’t fit in for the future of the Rangers.

by TRanger on Jul 22, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

No offense

but that’s a pretty bad argument.

There is no such thing as global warming. David Murphy was cold, so he turned the sun up.

by SarasotaRanger on Jul 22, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

reliever ERA fluctates too much

You could do a comparison of frankie last year and cj last year and CJ would be the one leading everything. i know frankie was recovering from injury, but it was the second half he blew up in anyway.

CJ is struggling, but it hasnt hurt the team yet. its certainly not out of the realm of possibility that he could put up a 2.5 era form this point forward.

i give CJ the rest of the year unless he really blows up big time. i think what has happened does not qualify.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Jul 22, 2008 12:02 PM CDT 0 recs

the poll

just read that..

See, the main issue here is that its implied CJ will be bad and Frankie really good ERA wise from here on out.

I wouldnt be shocked if CJ has a better ERA than frankie from this point.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Jul 22, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

frankie

seems to like to get men on base before he gets his shit together.. so basically hes CJ.. I think CJ’s stuff at times is closer material but he seems like he has ADD and if the batter fouls a few off he loses velocity or concentration and walks the guy… sign krod this offseason pleeease lol.

Damn JD, i wish i could be smoaking some Danks. f bmac.

by Andrew L on Jul 22, 2008 12:29 PM CDT 0 recs

Invalid poll.

The implied negativity of leaving CJ in his current role biases the results.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley

by Rodney on Jul 22, 2008 12:32 PM CDT 0 recs

Hasn't kept CJ from getting almonst 70% of the vote

Yet one more time when the LSB community thinks LSJ’s analysis sucks.

by robert_d_wilfong on Jul 22, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

meh

they are basically the same in High Leverage situations.

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 22, 2008 12:34 PM CDT 0 recs

sucky?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 22, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

They are?

FX^2: .226/.311/.306, 74 PA, 12.2% walk rate, 67 OPS+
CJ: .227/.348/.320, 115 PA, 15.7% walk rate, 82 OPS+

Roughly the same batting average, but CJ’s yielding significantly more baserunners regardless.

Baseball Time in Arlington

by jamcadbury on Jul 22, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

yes

in that they both do pretty good jobs.

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 22, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

Gotta play this year out with CJ...

Give the kid the full season to show whether he’ll sink or swim in that role…

by N41D on Jul 22, 2008 1:05 PM CDT 0 recs

I'm curious

who do you think has more trade value right now on the open market? Frankie or CJ or Eddie?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 22, 2008 1:40 PM CDT 0 recs

Easily CJ

Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .

by Brian Thomas on Jul 22, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

Attempt at a summary

CJ is the closer. Despite cardiac risk, has done OK so far. On occasions when he can’t, or shoudn’t go, nothing wrong with using Frankie.

Is that close? Or even Wright ?

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Jul 22, 2008 1:41 PM CDT 0 recs

Is CJ untouchable?

"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08

.501 or bust!

by Jayslick on Jul 22, 2008 1:51 PM CDT 0 recs

he shouldn't be

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Jul 22, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

very, very few players are untouchable

but he is much less touchable than Eddie.

by clark on Jul 22, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

Eddie likes

to be touched.

Zing!!!!!

by Rodney on Jul 22, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

Only untouchable

is Josh Hamilton and Kinsler is close to it.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Jul 22, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

Kinsler is untouchable

with that contract..

If there were no rewards to reap,
no loving embrace to see me through this tedious path I've chosen here,
I certainly would've walked away by now... Be patient

by trident on Jul 22, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

No

his contract is not a problem, a fine value for the best 2B in the AL.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 22, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

Oh,

maybe you meant that with that contract he has too much value to the Rangers?

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 22, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

Illogical, imo

First, as has been mentioned, he has only blown 2 saves. That is your primary function of a closer, right?

2nd, your premise seems to imply that the 9th inning is SO SO much more important than the 7th and 8th. Pancho wil get the chance to pitch many highly meaningful innings right where he is. It is not like he is rusting on the bench.

And besides, Pancho will be moving in to the primary setup role in a week or two, anyway.

And I also wouldn’t bet against Wilson righting the ship in a major way these last couple of months.

Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .

by Brian Thomas on Jul 22, 2008 2:48 PM CDT 0 recs

Frankie Frank

I don’t think anyone, including Frankie Frank, has any idea where the ball is going half of the time. He seriously looks like he just rears back and throws the ball as hard as he can. He doesn’t give a second thought to pitch location or selection as long as he lights up the radar gun.

CJ on the other hand is an over-thinker, IMO. I wish he’d just ‘rock and fire’ more often than he does. When he comes out of the pen and blows a couple of fastballs by people early in the counts, he’s almost really good. But too often he tries to mix in a gyro-ball or some other fluff off-speed pitch.

Is there a third option we can choose?

Revenge of the Birds

by cgolden on Jul 22, 2008 3:16 PM CDT 0 recs

This

is an excellent point. Frankie’s a thrower. CJ would be a pitcher if he thought less.

by jwiscarson on Jul 22, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

Haha

I don’t think anyone, including Frankie Frank, has any idea where the ball is going half of the time. He seriously looks like he just rears back and throws the ball as hard as he can. He doesn’t give a second thought to pitch location or selection as long as he lights up the radar gun.

It looks that way because that’s actually the case.

by Lo'Ranger(s)714 on Jul 22, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up 0 recs

what does era+ mean?

frankie has a 122 and cj has a 85….

by texasrangerfan on Jul 22, 2008 4:06 PM CDT 0 recs

ERA+ is

park-adjusted ERA, normalized to a scale where 100 is average.

by jwiscarson on Jul 22, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up 0 recs

you DONT

give somebody else a “crack” at being the closer, thats not how you handle the closer’s role, in a closers role their is only ONE stat that matters, and that stat is Blown Saves, everything else is B.S. if your guy is giving up 1 run everytime he needs a two run save, or 2 runs everytime he needs a 3 run save then so be it AS LONG AS HE GETS THE SAVE AND DOESNT BLOW IT, then he is doing his JOB!

by blueballlefty on Jul 22, 2008 4:47 PM CDT 0 recs