Halladay, Roy Halladay

by blueballlefty on Jul 24, 2008 2:52 PM CDT

Our buddies over at mlbtraderumors.com have a story up from Dan Graziano of the Newark Star Ledger, that says Roy is unhappy in Toronto and the Jays maybe doing some "quiet surveying" of the market for Doc. This is what I have to say to J.P. and the Blue Jays: Here they are, here are the keys to my farm, take the tractor down and take a look at what I got and help yourself, I might want to talk to ol' Roy real quick and see if he would be willing to discuss an extension but if he will then its a deal because I will give him what he wants. This is the kind of deal that you build your farm system up for, so you can trade for this type of player if the oppurtunity ever comes along! Now I dont know if Dan knows what he is talking about, but if he does then we have to do what it takes to get a TRUE ACE! So what do you think it will take? I say we start with, Elvis, Salty/MaxRam/TT, Harrison, and Hurley. I know thats alot, and there are some of you that dont think its enough, but thats A TON better than what Cleveland got for CC, and totally off the chart compared to what the A's got, so what do y'all think?

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Halladay

I would start with Hurley, Hunter, catcher, Lemon, and Holland

That would start negotiations. A ML ready catcher and starting pitcher. A pitcher who could be ready mid next season and a high upside pitcher who is a few years away. Also a young SS who is a couple years away.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 24, 2008 2:58 PM CDT 0 recs

That's too much

That’s more than Sabathia fetched, and too many ready/near ready players.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 24, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

Of course it's more than Sabathia fetched

He was a three month rental.

Halladay is signed (rather reasonably) for two more years after this one.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 24, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

But he's also

what, 3 years older? Maybe the time remaining balances that out, not sure. But in any case, largesteve is offering too much. I’d at least leave Holland out of that. Sheesh, a ML-ready mid-rotation Hurley, a ML catcher, a pitcher who can step into the back of the rotation sometime next year, a decent SS, AND a high upside lefty?

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 24, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

It way more than balances it out

Are you honestly suggesting three months of CC is close in value to two years and three months of Halladay? That doesn’t seem right…

I mean, I wouldn’t make that deal (Hurley, Catcher, Hunter, Lemon, Holland) either, but that’s just because I don’t think we’re in a place as a team where we can be trading away huge chunks of our near-future for a guy like Halladay.

But that’s right about what I’d expect a guy like Halladay to fetch in trade. Maybe a little high, but close. You’d have to bowl Toronto over. He’s really, really good and he’s signed for multiple years beyond this one. How different is that deal than the one Baltimore got for Bedard? Better, I think. But by how much?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 24, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

I don't know

he’s older and there are a lot of innings in that arm (something I think is true of Sabathia as well). I’m not saying he shouldn’t fetch more than CC with the friendly contract he’s under, I’m saying I’m very uncomfortable with the package listed above.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 24, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

Halladay

I would be intrigued. I remember an article by Heyman who said we pretty much offered the farm for Santana before he nixed it with his no-trade clause. I would try to avoid giving up both Harrison and Hurley if at all possible however. Any deal would likely have to include a shortstop like Elvis but maybe we could offer Vallejo instead.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jul 24, 2008 2:59 PM CDT 0 recs

I like Halladay

But this is a year early. Talk to me on July 24, 2009 with a trade like this and I’ll have a lot more interest. Halladay would be gone after 2010, right around when most of us think we will be a serious thread.

Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.

by TheBZA on Jul 24, 2008 3:01 PM CDT 0 recs

But is agrees to an extension...

it is not too early…

"The path you choose, you also choose its destination..."

by pro82 on Jul 24, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

i really wish i didnt agree with ya...

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Jul 24, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

So what

he’d be pretty damn nice to have around in the meantime. You don’t think the Rangers can contend next year with Halladay leading the rotation? Especially if they add another pitcher in the offseason?

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 24, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

depends on what pitcher of course

Sheets? yes – try to trade for Halladay now. But what does “throwing the farm at them” mean? if we have to turn around and send the same package we got for Tex to them, I’d say no. I’d much rather wait to see if Feliz can get the job done in a year or two, use Harrison now, and try to get legit young pitching with Salty and either a pitcher, Blalock or Bradley if the return pitcher is intriguing enough.

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 24, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

justin smoak

hey…he hasn’t been signed yet, has he?

by JackDublin on Jul 24, 2008 3:30 PM CDT 0 recs

Smoak

Even if he did sign, the Rangers couldn’t trade him for a year.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jul 24, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

No

Not yet.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 24, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

thx

is there a site that tracks the signings?

by JackDublin on Jul 24, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up 0 recs

Mixed

Baseball America has signings on their database, but it’s painfully slowly updated. Best word is through the blog at DMN or some other sites like that. Clark Murphy (#5), Matt Thompson (#7), and Mike Bianucci (#8) have all signed in the last week.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 24, 2008 3:41 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yes

http://www.pgcrosschecker.com/draft/2008/bonuses/signing_bonuses_08.aspx

Baseball Time in Arlington

by jamcadbury on Jul 24, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

+10

by JackDublin on Jul 24, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

Halladay

I really worry about the workload he’s endured in Toronto. He’s the type of guy that will start to break down by the time his current contract is up.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 24, 2008 3:35 PM CDT 0 recs

What

Type of guy is that?

by brettgardner on Jul 24, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

Whose Arm Falls Off

He’s logged so many innings and has had arm issues in the past. 239.1, 266.0, 220.0, 225.1. Not to mention the 152.1 already this year. He’s 31. That first number came at age 25. He will fail because of that workload.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 24, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

maybe if he a more

McCarhty-like workload he’d be less of a health risk?

by SteveP on Jul 24, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

he's logged so many innings because he's kept his pitch counts down.

Hallady puts his team in the position to win every game, or at least keeps his team in the game. He’s got the potential to end losing streaks and ignite a team for winning streaks. Bring him here. I dont know if he would want to be here tho considering he did get that freak injury via Kevin Mench.

baseBALLIN!

by kevzta on Jul 24, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

not everyone who throws lots of innings

has their arm fall off

by JBImaknee on Jul 24, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

Danger

It’s not that I’m saying that everyone who throws those kind of innings will go down. I’m saying the odds are far from with you at that point. Especially for someone who started that trend at age 25.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 24, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

Some guys can handle it

Sounds like he’s got the frame, mentality and the work ethic to pile up innings. I wouldn’t let that discourage us from acquiring him. Santana showed some indicators of decline before he was traded. I don’t see the same concerns with Halladay.

If he takes great care of himself, that should allow him to pitch as much as he does. Genetically gifted and incredibly dedicated are a pretty good combo.

by Baider on Jul 24, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

+1

see Nolan Ryan…

by 8legs2fangs on Jul 24, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

I am willing....

to sell my wife to the mexican mafia to get an ace for this team.

by clinton33 on Jul 24, 2008 3:55 PM CDT 0 recs

Have you told your wife yet, or are you waiting to do it as a "suprise"?

by laxtonto on Jul 24, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

I wouldnt trade Elvis, or anyofthe catchers, hurley, and harrison.

Roy is good, but damn i like these guys, and i dont wana see any of them leave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA

by mchang4 on Jul 24, 2008 4:05 PM CDT 0 recs

forgetting feliz?

baseBALLIN!

by kevzta on Jul 24, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

what about him?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA

by mchang4 on Jul 24, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

So....

The Rangers are going to carry 3-4 catchers on their roster?

by TheBZA on Jul 24, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

No

Im just saying i wouldnt give them that package for Halladay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA

by mchang4 on Jul 24, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

Gotcha

by TheBZA on Jul 24, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

you wouldn't trade ANY of the catchers?

Why the hell not?

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 24, 2008 6:46 PM CDT up 0 recs

For starters,

I realize it’s Roy Halladay, but there is no way in hell that the Rangers give up Hurley. Just like the Yankees wouldn’t give up Hughes for Santana, the Rangers would not give up Hurley for Halladay. Wouldn’t happen. Won’t happen.

However, I could see a Ramirez, Feliz, and Cruz deal for Halladay and lower level prospect.

Roy Halladay is not happy in Toronto because of their lacking of winning. Why, at this point in his career, would he want to come to Texas?
2008 – Toronto 51-51
2008 – Texas 52-50

2007 – Toronto 86-86
2007 – Texas 75-87

2006 – Toronto 87-75
2006 – Texas 80-82

Halladay would be making a lateral move.

However, I could very well see the argument that Texas is getting better, as Toronto seems to be getting worse.

by sidebar54 on Jul 24, 2008 4:29 PM CDT 0 recs

Feliz but not Hurley

are you smoking CRACK?

Feliz has top of the rotation potential, even if he doesn’t live up to it, Hurley’s a #3 if he’s lucky.

by venturafearsnolan on Jul 24, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hurley's Slide

In the course of two years, he’s gone from our true potential #1 to “a #3 if he’s lucky.” How quickly things change for prospects.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 24, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

Who

thought of Hurley as a future ace? I don’t recall a lot of folks around here saying he was a true #1. I’ve always thought he was a solid #3, #2 hopefully. I’ll be very happy if I’m wrong. I would not, however say Hurley is a ”#3 if he’s lucky”.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 24, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

2006

After his six great starts for Frisco in 2006, people were crowning him as future ace.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 24, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

I don't doubt it

Most fans have a short memory and tendency to knee-jerk, even among a relatively devoted and informed crowd here.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 24, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

a solid #5 would be an ace for us

i dont get why people on here say “well hes only a solid #4 or #5 at best”

i would happy if we had FIVE solid #4s in our rotation right now.

Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future

by Steal Home on Jul 25, 2008 1:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

It's a basis for comparison

not a judgement. I say Hurley is a solid #3 in the making, and when I say that it’s a compliment. A solid #3 is a tremendous success in player development considering the attrition rate of pitchers. If he turns out to be even better, great.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 25, 2008 7:17 AM CDT up 0 recs

+1

by 12pounders on Jul 24, 2008 9:02 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think Feliz

wont be touchable. If any GM asks about feliz to John daniels, he will probly hang up on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA

by mchang4 on Jul 24, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up 0 recs

As the same...

he would also hang up with the mentioning of Hurley also, I believe.

by sidebar54 on Jul 24, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up 0 recs

No way

If Hurley can find you that long lost ace, you go out there and find that fucking ace!

If there were no rewards to reap,
no loving embrace to see me through this tedious path I've chosen here,
I certainly would've walked away by now... Be patient

by trident on Jul 24, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up 1 recs

hear, hear

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 24, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

Nah

it depends what name JD asks for right before the other GM says the name Feliz.

I’d do a Feliz/Lincecum deal right now. There are a number of dudes I’d trade Feliz for, actually. It’s just that that number is pretty small.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 24, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

I

was thinking more realisticly. I know the giants wont be calling JD for a Lincecum and Feliz trade. But i know what your saying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA

by mchang4 on Jul 24, 2008 5:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

have you seen lincecums wind-up?, hes gonnna blow his arm out

Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future

by Steal Home on Jul 25, 2008 1:17 AM CDT up 0 recs

lets hope

Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future

by Steal Home on Jul 25, 2008 1:17 AM CDT up 0 recs

Halladay is the defination of ACE

He is in the same league as Santana and Sabathia but at 2/3 the price for the next 2.5 years.

Jays do have young major league ready pitching, they don’t necessarily want top MLB read pitching prospects.

Something like Salty, Andrus, Harrison, Kiker, and Font MIGHT work. The Jays are in dire need of a future SS in their system and Salty might give them some offensive pop from the catching position.

by Baseball North on Jul 24, 2008 5:06 PM CDT 0 recs

I'd jump at that if it were true...but I doubt it is.

what’re we giving up…a catcher we don’t NEED that has limits defensively, a SS that can’t hit yet but could be great some day with a player blocking his entrance, a nice looking lefty that’s ready now, a nice looking lefty a few years away, and an injured potential stud pitching prospect?

I’d be all for it, especially if we could lock up a Ben Sheets in the off-season. that’s an instant playoff team in 2009 if we re-sign Milton Bradley and keep healthy

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 24, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

I would

do that deal today.

If there were no rewards to reap,
no loving embrace to see me through this tedious path I've chosen here,
I certainly would've walked away by now... Be patient

by trident on Jul 24, 2008 5:07 PM CDT 0 recs

damn it

was supposed to be reply

If there were no rewards to reap,
no loving embrace to see me through this tedious path I've chosen here,
I certainly would've walked away by now... Be patient

by trident on Jul 24, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

ya

what WILL get it done is if Feliz is switched with Harrison OR if Davis is switched with Kiker

So its almost like trading Teixeira + Kiker for Halladay or Teixeira + Davis for Halladay

by Baseball North on Jul 24, 2008 5:15 PM CDT 0 recs

crap

that was also suppose to be a reply, I had just read your missed reply

by Baseball North on Jul 24, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

THE BEST THING about the deal I proposed......

....... is that we keep our two best prospects #1 Davis and #2 Feliz, our system is actually good enough to get a TRUE ACE without giving up our two best prospects

by blueballlefty on Jul 24, 2008 5:59 PM CDT 0 recs