Indians/Dodgers Trade - Blalock's Value?

by ivysafety39 on Jul 26, 2008 11:36 AM CDT

So it looks like the Indians are sending Casey Blake and "cash" to the Dodgers for Jon Meloan and A League catching prospect Carlos Santana.

Santana is hitting .323, with 14 homers, for Inland Empire, in the Class A California League. The hard-throwing Meloan is 5-10, with a 4.97 ERA, at Triple-A Las Vegas -- but has piled up 335 strikeouts in only 262 innings in his minor league career.

The Dodgers were listed as one of the potential suitors for Hank Blalock, so thats one less destination, which isn't great, but I think the return of Meloan and an above average position prospect is pretty good return for Blake who is a free agent at the end of the year. The Indians will be paying a chunk of his salary, which I'm sure is a big part of it. I guess the questions are: Would we have taken Meloan and B level prospect for Hank? What does this equate to from Minnesota, the supposed big suitors of Hank? Is Hank more, or less, valuable thank Casey Blake for the rest of the season?

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oh, and about blake...

.... blake this year:

“Blake, who can be a free agent after this season, was batting .289 for the Indians, with 11 homers, 58 RBIs and a .398 average with runners in scoring position.”

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Jul 26, 2008 11:38 AM CDT 0 recs

Minnesota equivalent

Brian Bass and Ben Revere?

They won’t offer Revere, but Santana’s a nice positional prospect.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jul 26, 2008 11:46 AM CDT 0 recs

No

Meloan looks like a nice reliever but with Hank not only having a very reasonable option for next year but also being young and the fact we don’t have any top young player to take his spot next year we should hold out for a top prospect.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 26, 2008 11:50 AM CDT 0 recs

Us not having a top positional

prospect to take Hank’s place will have nothing to do with what other teams are willing to offer for him.

The Eagle has landed....

by Lonerangers on Jul 26, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

I know

But thats why we shouldn’t just take any offer. The combo of his contract and his age should bring back a decent prospect to begin with. But the fact we don’t have to trade him means they better up that offer to a top notch prospect to pry him away from us.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 26, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

i think you're forgetting that he's been hurt a lot

59 games last year, just 29 this year. But, we should expect more than a solid pitching prospect and a solid positional player prospect?

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 26, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up 0 recs

Starting pitching prospect

Thats what I want to give up the only legit 3B in my organization

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 26, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up 0 recs

Meloan

has started 20 games this year.

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 26, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up 0 recs

And not done very well

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 26, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

with the way he k's people

if his control get’s even just a little better, he’s going to be pretty good…

So, what kind of starting pitching prospect are you expecting for Hank?

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 26, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

Not sure about names

But a #3/4 potential guy is what I would ask for. If we had a young guy to step in and play 3B then the price would go lower but as of now its a #3/4

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 26, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up 0 recs

wha??

If we had a young guy to step in and play 3B then the price would go lower

That’s not a good way to look at things. What 3/4 guy you thinking of? Meloan seems like one of those type of guys.

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 26, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

Meloan

He looks like a good bullpen guy to me. This is his first year to be a starter. Hes been really good in the minors as a reliever. I just don’t feel like we should settle on a bullpen arm for Hank.

Again I don’t know about names right now that would require a bit more research than I am up for at this time. But if Meloan stay as a starter I see him as a fringe #5 guy like a Feldman or Mathis. I think we can get a step up from that for Hank

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jul 26, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hank's injuries

You have to put his injuries into perspective. I don’t believe Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and Carpel Tunnel Syndrome are chronic injuries. He didn’t miss all of those game due to hamstrings, tendenitis, arm problems, etc. I think his value is greater then many percieve it to be.

"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch

by RangerMad on Jul 26, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

id just as soon not move hank

im not convinced we are moving young this offseason, and if we arnt we still need a 3b.

that sounds like an ok a couple months of blake, but Id rather just keep hank.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Jul 26, 2008 11:52 AM CDT 0 recs

what makes you think

that Hank will be able to play third base for half the games next year anyways?

by blueballlefty on Jul 26, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hope springs eternal

especially when a contract year is involved.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2008 2:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

Contract year performance

Surely you realize that’s a myth.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 26, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yes, but the hope the contract year inspires in the plebes is very real

And, don’t call me Shirley.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up 0 recs

with...

....elvis being eta 2010, and young needing to move to 3rd… doesn’t that mean that hanks time here is limited anyway… next year is basically it for him… so trade him this year, or trade him next year… eitherway looks like he’s going to be traded because he’s got no where to play… why not trade him now while his option leaves the other team with options and most likely more value in return for us?

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Jul 26, 2008 12:04 PM CDT 0 recs

Dammit!

I would hope the Rangers were in on this…or used this deal as leverage with another team.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley

by Rodney on Jul 26, 2008 12:05 PM CDT 0 recs

Well...

This means Cleveland could use a third baseman… and with V-Mart and Hafner down, they could use a power boost… maybe we could do some kind of deal involvling Blalock and Jeremy Sowers?

A Lonestar in California

by lonestarJon on Jul 26, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

Jeremy Sowers

has been getting rocked lately..

He doesn’t look good right now.

by tyd3311 on Jul 26, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

Same could be said for Matt Harrison

Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have potential.

A Lonestar in California

by lonestarJon on Jul 26, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

Harrisson

might be up a little early though..

Sowers was up last year, and did well i think, but something is up with him.

by tyd3311 on Jul 26, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

Indians

They’re 13 out in the Central and 13.5 out in the Wild Card. I don’t think they’re going to trade for anyone this year. They’re more likely to try and dump some salary and play for next year.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 26, 2008 2:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

PTBNL

The Rangers should consider doing a deal where they get two prospects, one now and one later, the latter being based on Hank’s production the rest of the year..

good Hank, choose from group A.
bad Hank, choose from group B.

by tyd3311 on Jul 26, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up 0 recs

Is that allowed in baseball?

I really doubt it, and even so, it’d seem very complicated.

In fact I’m almost sure that wouldn’t be allowed.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

Thats usually why there are PTBL

by tyd3311 on Jul 26, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

Really?

I don’t think so.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

PTBNL

The only rule is that a PTBNL must be named in six months, and that they must not have been on a Major League roster during that time period. A list must be agreed to beforehand from which the team can pick a player.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 26, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up 0 recs

wait so can

a team call up a particular player just to protect him from being the named player?

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 26, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

In Theory

In theory they can, but that could easily be investigated by the Commissioner’s Office and the union, so I wouldn’t think a team would risk that unless they had a legitimate reason to call the person up. The rule is that way so that teams don’t spend the whole six months deciding.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 26, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

I thought you weren't allowed to call them up while they were on the list?

Thought was part of the PTBNL rules?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up 0 recs

Considering

that MLB doesn’t allow performance-based incentives in contracts (only playing time based incentives like games played, appearances and innings pitched are allowed, iirc) I really doubt they’d allow a trade where the players’ performance on the field dictates which player the other team would get.

There’d be too much incentive for a team to try to influence a player’s performance.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

Usually

when you trade for a player, you looking for him to make an impact.

to be as successful as he possibly can be.

by tyd3311 on Jul 26, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

really?

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jul 26, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up 0 recs

Huh?

Yah, I mean, sure. But what the hell does that mean in the context of this conversation?

The point is that MLB doesn’t allow performance based stipulations (like HR, batting average or RBI’s) in contracts, so what makes you think they’d allow a performance based stipulation in a trade?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

Well

maybe i wasn’t clear originally.

When I said good hank, i meant healthy Hank..

So can you use at-bats?

by tyd3311 on Jul 26, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

Ah, okay. I believe you can do plate appearances, yes

They just don’t want teams and players having specific performance clauses in their contracts that might provide a conflict of interest.

Playing time incentives are usually allowed, iirc, since they don’t really present such COI’s.

But I still don’t know that the commissioner’s office would approve a trade with two separate lists to choose from. It’s entirely possible, I’ve just never heard of it. The rules surrounding PTBNL’s always appear to be deep, complex and a little bit mysterious… which is kind of like the way I appear when I sit at Starbucks wearing my skin-tight black turtleneck and pretend to read the New York Times.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

How should they have been in on it?

Dodgers obviously like Blake better, or they’d have traded for Blalock.

by Baider on Jul 26, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

Obviously?

That’s a huge assumption there.

by Rodney on Jul 26, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up 0 recs

Perhaps but

why would they trade for their 2nd choice with 5 days left before the deadline?

by Baider on Jul 26, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

The Rangers

wanted a better pitcher than Meloan…wanted 2 pitchers in the deal…already have enough catchers…couldn’t agree on the prospects???

There’s an infinite number of reasons why.

by Rodney on Jul 26, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

Lower price in terms of prospects?

Cleveland willing to pick Blake’s salary?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Jul 26, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

done deal

Update 1:23 p.m.: The AP is reporting the deal is done pending approval by the commissioner’s office.
—

by tyd3311 on Jul 26, 2008 12:30 PM CDT 0 recs

mlbtraderumors

i remember when people would bash that website. now, everyone is linking it..

They’ve done a great job for a long time, glad they are around…

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 26, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up 0 recs

I agree

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Jul 26, 2008 12:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

they deserved to be bashed several years ago

there were examples of people on message boards sending in random fake rumors and them being posted on the site. it was a highly questionable site.

however theyve since become much better and relied mostly on finding real links and being very quick.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Jul 26, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up 0 recs

no, they didn't.

but they did post rumors from radio show hosts…not sure what’s wrong with that though.

Josh Hamilton is better than you.

by Longhorn on Jul 26, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up 0 recs

Radio

Because usually radio show hosts aren’t as connected to actual front office people. Beat writers and other baseball writers are usually much more reliable.

Texas Rangers Analyst

by Andy Seiler on Jul 26, 2008 2:16 PM CDT up 0 recs

yes, they did

there was a thread on the espn general board where someone said they were going to send a fake rumor of X for Y to mlb trade rumros and see if it would get on. 2 hours later, its there.

but uh.. thanks.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Jul 26, 2008 2:53 PM CDT up 0 recs