LSB Community Prospect Project: Mid-Season #20
by thedirkatron
on Jul 28, 2008 12:43 PM CDT
After 234 votes, John Mayberry, Jr. has won the right to be called the LSB Community #19 prospect!
The list so far:
1. 1b, Chris Davis
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. RHP, Eric Hurley
4. SS, Elvis Andrus
5. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
6. 1b, Justin Smoak
7. RHP, Michael Main
8. RHP, Blake "C-Wun" Beavan
9. C, Taylor Teagarden
10. LHP Kasey Kiker
11. OF, Engel Beltre
12. LHP, Matt Harrison
13. OF, Julio Borbon
14. LHP, Derek Holland
15. RHP, Tommy Hunter
16. RHP, Wilmer Font
17. RHP, Neil Ramirez
18. LHP, Martin Perez
19. OF, John Mayberry, Jr.
Time to move on to the next vote.
The polls are open, so go ahead and vote in the poll at the bottom and feel free to make any suggestions and/or criticisms in the comments below.
And please don't hesitate to tell me you want on the list for next time.
NOTE: There has been some speculation as to what the criteria are for this vote. Should guys who are currently in the bigs be involved in "prospect" discussions? For the sake of this exercise we're taking what the guys have done in the big leagues and using the BA prospect formula of 130 AB's or 50 ip. If a guy is under those limits, he's still a prospect right now, so he goes on the list. It's that simple.
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Lil' Lemon
Though at this point I could see the case for Duran, Vallejo, Diamond, Madrigal, Robbie Ross and Cristian Santana.
This is a very tough area.
The differences between these guys is small.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 28, 2008 12:46 PM CDT 0 recs
I switched from Duran to Lemon
I still like Duran, but losing a year of development hurts.
by cstorm15 on
Jul 28, 2008 1:48 PM CDT
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When life gives you a Lemon
You turn it into lemonade.
by Coolbean04 on Jul 28, 2008 12:46 PM CDT 0 recs
TD gets my vote
Once again…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Jul 28, 2008 12:50 PM CDT 0 recs
Vallejo
Third times the charm
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
by TheBZA on Jul 28, 2008 12:56 PM CDT 0 recs
no it isnt trust me
this makes around 5 for me, give or take a vote. So many now I have lost count.
I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.
by rchawk12 on
Jul 28, 2008 1:58 PM CDT
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We still have so much talent to go.
What are we doing this up to, top 30, 40, 50????
by Coolbean04 on Jul 28, 2008 12:56 PM CDT 0 recs
how are people NOT voting for Madrigal?
he’s 24 years old, in the majors, and (aside from his horrible 1st outing where Wash hung him out to dry), he has a 2.53 ERA and 1.09 WHIP.
Plus, he dominated in the minors and is probably still learning how to be a pitcher.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Jul 28, 2008 1:05 PM CDT 0 recs
hes a reliever
and not one that looks right now to be a future closer. As great as those guys are to have on your team they tend to get overlooked in prospect rankings for starting pitchers and toolsy positional players
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Jul 28, 2008 1:11 PM CDT
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why then
does Diamond have just as many votes?
You don’t think Madrigal looks like a future closer? I thought that was the plan all along.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on
Jul 28, 2008 1:29 PM CDT
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even better though
he was stolen from the Angels!
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on
Jul 28, 2008 1:32 PM CDT
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right now hes a starter
As much as people may think he will ultimately end up in the pen right now hes a starter.
Madrigal may eventually end up as a closer. But right now he has been a pitcher for 2 years and has made a huge jump this year from AA to the bigs in just 2 months. Mainly out of necessity but hes not a closer candidate right now in my eyes.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Jul 28, 2008 1:52 PM CDT
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You know what would be really fun
Go back and look at the prospect ranking from the beginning of the 07 season and compare that to now. The influx of talent has been truly amazing in the last 18 months.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 28, 2008 1:05 PM CDT 0 recs
Linky, Linky, Kitchen Sinky
Here is the list we did before the ‘07 season:
List so far: 1. RHP, Eric Hurley
2. LHP, John Danks (Chicago White Sox)
3. RHP, Edinson Volquez
4. RHP, Nick Massett (Chicago White Sox)
5. DH, Jason Botts
6. RHP, Wes Littleton
7. RHP, Josh Rupe
8. RHP, Thomas Diamond
9. SS, Joaquin “Flaco Joaqo” Arias
10. OF, John Mayberry, Jr.
11. LHP, Kasey Kiker
12. Omar Poveda
There’s some real shit burgers in their (Botts, Massett, Littleton, Rupe) who wouldn’t come close to cracking our top 15 now.
But the top of that list sure does look a ton better this year than it did, say, heading into spring training. The ridiculous breakouts enjoyed by Danks and Volquez have been, well, ridiculous.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 28, 2008 1:17 PM CDT
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Damn
Did a shitty job of formatting and made a there/their/they’re mistake (one of my pet peeves).
I hate myself sometimes.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 28, 2008 1:19 PM CDT
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Massett
was riding high on Hindman hype, and Littleton was a good example of folks on this blog overvaluing stats and level. But Rupe and Massett can still have nice careers in either the pen or the back of rotations, so I don’t think that they look just awful being in a top ten.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 28, 2008 1:29 PM CDT
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Was it it five plus pitches he had?
Or six?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 28, 2008 5:46 PM CDT
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who
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Jul 29, 2008 1:26 AM CDT
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Masset
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 29, 2008 1:29 AM CDT
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Woah!
That’s an ugly damn list. KK moved up a spot though, even with the massive talent influx.
3/12 goners, with 2 MLB contributors.
2/12 valuable MLB contributors for the Rangers.
1/12 I-35 shuttle.
Not that bad, when broken down a bit.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on
Jul 28, 2008 2:11 PM CDT
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rupe and who else are the 2 valuable contributers
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Jul 29, 2008 1:27 AM CDT
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poveda??
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Jul 29, 2008 1:25 AM CDT
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http://www.youtube.com/v/1ss5vKAABLc
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Jul 28, 2008 1:11 PM CDT 0 recs
Mayberry voters
This is a call to you guys. Congrats on getting your guy in. Now come to the German side! I really was hoping that he would get some love from the close to ready crowd.
by bushe on Jul 28, 2008 1:16 PM CDT 0 recs
I find it questionable that Robbie Ross doesn't come close to making the top 20
by LiamP on Jul 28, 2008 1:25 PM CDT 0 recs
unless your name is
Wilmer Font…then you get a free pass
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on
Jul 28, 2008 1:42 PM CDT
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That makes no sense
But I guess it should have been expected after Smoak didn’t break the top 5.
by LiamP on
Jul 28, 2008 2:22 PM CDT
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yep
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 28, 2008 2:47 PM CDT
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I'll claim ignorance..
I dont know enough about the guy to vote for him ahead of…..
10. LHP Kasey Kiker
11. OF, Engel Beltre
12. LHP, Matt Harrison
13. OF, Julio Borbon
14. LHP, Derek Holland
15. RHP, Tommy Hunter
16. RHP, Wilmer Font
17. RHP, Neil Ramirez
18. LHP, Martin Perez
....any one of those, and he would have to be pretty damn good to be.
by tyd3311 on
Jul 28, 2008 2:59 PM CDT
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I'm still not sure
what Harrison has done to warrant #8-9 in the system (when you remove Davis, etc). But when you do remove those guys, Ross belongs in the top 20, and considering how the votes are going, he won’t be close.
Ross was regarded by by many as a first round talent in this draft and will be paid like it. I think that his profile definitely warrants being considered along with guys like Harrison, Ramirez and Perez (and I like those two a lot).
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 28, 2008 3:10 PM CDT
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Yah, Harrison is the only guy in there that seems out of place to me
This will probably cause JParks and Dstar to join band together and form some sort of assasination plot against me, but I still wouldn’t have voted for Harrison yet if he was still on the poll.
He’s a mid-to-lower 20’s guy to me until he shows me he can miss bats.
If he can maybe add a pitch (like Danks and his cutter) or tweak something small to add deception so he could miss a damn bat or two he would rocket up my rankings, but as it stands now I don’t have any faith in the guy.
Hope I’m wrong though. Really I do. I’d gladly lose my gentleman’s bet with Jason Parks if it meant getting a solid starter out of Harrison.
With the way Feliz and Andrus are playing it’d be orgasmic if we ended up getting 3/4 starter type numbers out of Harrison.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 28, 2008 3:21 PM CDT
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Harrison, Matt
I believe Jason Cole had him in the top 5 in our system. That’s more love than even I feel comfortable with.
by jparks77 on
Jul 28, 2008 3:25 PM CDT
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Wowzers
I keep thinking that with all the love everyone is giving him that I’m missing something about the kid.
I try my darnedest not to judge prospects based on how they perform right after they get called up for the first time, since there’s a ton of variables involved. (Nerves and unfamiliarity with the players being the biggest ones.) And then there’s ye olde small sample size concerns…
But when I have questions about a guy’s long term viability as a starter due to his inability to miss bats and then he comes up and proceeds to K a grand total of 2 guys in his first 19.2 innings (4 start), I can’t help but fret at those numbers.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 28, 2008 3:38 PM CDT
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I can only assume that we've yet to see his full arsenal at once
It seems like he’s either throwing fastball/changeup (like in his first start) or he’s throwing more offspeed stuff but doesn’t have a good fastball (like in his last start).
Let’s hope he’s just in an untimely slump.
by cstorm15 on
Jul 28, 2008 3:43 PM CDT
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2 K’s, a 1.8 WHIP and a .321 BA against in 20 innings
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 28, 2008 3:43 PM CDT
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...and it’s not like he was missing bats in the minors either
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 28, 2008 3:44 PM CDT
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well
he might not have been a great strikeout pitcher, but his strikeout-to-walk ratio was certainly much better at 3-to-1 in the minors than 2-to-9, what it is at the major league level. he’s on pace for almost 100 walks in a 200 inning season. That’s horrible, and he’s never approached that rate before. I think he’ll be much more effective if he can do what he did in his first start against the Angels and throw a lot of first-pitch strikes. it’s highly important that he (and every other Rangers starter of course) begins to do that more regularly. if so, I think he can be a very good # 5 pitcher for us for years to come. if not, he’s toast at the major league level
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on
Jul 28, 2008 3:58 PM CDT
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However...
That reminds me of Joe Saunders’ stats at AAA last year. As I recall he wasn’t missing many bats at AAA, and gave up a tom of hits. Yet look at him now.
I propose a 5-year moratorium on trading any young Ranger pitchers who throw over 90 mph.
by Ajax68 on
Jul 29, 2008 4:10 AM CDT
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I'm a little hesitant
to believe that Saunders will sustain what he’s doing this year, but that’s a good point/comparison.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 29, 2008 10:15 AM CDT
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with regards to Harrison
I wasn’t TOO high on him, but loved the fact that he was a lefty regarded very well in the Braves’ organization. and then I looked up the stats:
2003: Rookie League: 3.69 ERA in 39 innings
2004: Rookie League: 4.09 ERA in 66 innings
2005: A ball: 3.23 ERA in 167 innings
2006: A+ ball: 3.10 ERA in 81 innings; AA ball: 3.72 ERA in 77 innings
2007: AA ball: 3.39 ERA in 116 innings
2008: AA ball: 3.33 ERA in 46 innings; AAA ball: 3.55 ERA in 38 innings
now, of course he’s gone on to 7.32 ERA in almost 20 innings at the major league level, but he’s had two very good starts and two very bad starts. but the good thing about him is that he seemed to have a very good record of consistency. here’s to hoping that with more experience, he levels those bad starts out and works on translating the 3.45 minor league ERA he compiled to the major league level. you’ll note the higher he progressed, the better he was…
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on
Jul 28, 2008 3:52 PM CDT
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Ross
Undisciplined bias here is he’s slight, and the last slight-framed lefty we drafted early hasn’t set the world on fire this year.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Jul 28, 2008 3:24 PM CDT
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I don’t understand that anecdotal connection. I would understand if Kiker were the only slight lefty around, or if all of the rest of them had failed. But for goodness sakes, we are in an era of small starters, both lefty and righty, having great success. One of Scott Kazmir’s biggest negatives was his size. Well thank goodness that people stayed away from him. The best pitcher in the major leagues for the last five years was almost exactly Ross’ size at his age. But we’re stuck on Kiker?
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 28, 2008 3:29 PM CDT
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Me and Robbie Ross
I just see two guys with very similar profiles in Neil Ramirez and Martin Perez, only they have an extra year of (mostly positive) performance under their belts.
NeRa was looked at as a first round talent and after he fell to us at #44 we had to give him well over slot to sign him away from a strong college commitment. He hasn’t set the world on fire so far this year, but he’s looked every bit like the raw-but-talented high-ceiling guy we thought we were getting.
And Martin Perez was a big time Bonus Baby we signed last year at a very young age. He profiles at least somewhat similarly to Ross in that they’re both slightly-built lefties. But again the difference is in experience. Perez will go into ST next year as a 17 year old who has already more than held his own in the NWL.
Given that all three are big time bonus guys, I just find myself having to go with the guys who’ve gotten positive pro results, even if I’m cognizant of the fact that Ross’ bonus is likely to be bigger than NeRa’s or Perez’s.
(And I’m not being sarcastic there… I think signing bonuses are a good indication of how JD and the Rangers’ scouts feel about a guy, and those guys know more than me. A guy with a big bonus sticks out to me as someone to watch and I usually give them the benefit of the doubt until they show me on the field that they suck… like Patrick Boyd or Vince Sinisi ultimately did.)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 28, 2008 3:46 PM CDT
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I voted
for Ramirez and Perez before Ross too (and have voted for Vallejo ahead of him the last couple of times). I see nothing wrong with ranking guys with similar talent levels to him and some positive experience higher. But I think that they should be a bit higher than they are, and I think that Ross belongs in the top 25 on this list.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 28, 2008 4:04 PM CDT
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great points
and right on, id agree with everything you said there. Its pretty crazy that we have so many of these guys at the A and low A level. I also think you gotta love what a guy like Boscan is doing at 18, he’s just another guy who could sneak onto this list next year and beyond. K Gomez is also right there.
by blalock84 on
Jul 28, 2008 4:06 PM CDT
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You're preaching to the wrong choir
You’re asking people to vote for a guy who’s not a Texas Ranger yet and most of us never seen him play before.
I’m sure Smoak should be ranked a lot higher too but you can use that same theory with him.
by Coolbean04 on
Jul 28, 2008 4:28 PM CDT
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Obviously
But that doesn’t mean that I’m wrong and the choir isn’t. :)
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by zywica on
Jul 28, 2008 4:35 PM CDT
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diamond
are those not voting for him think the injury will ruin his career or that he just doesn’t have a high ceiling? to me he has come back with a great curveball and has the fb to go with it.
by sanangelofan on Jul 28, 2008 1:32 PM CDT 0 recs
I have never been that high on him
I think his ceiling is of a late inning reliever, but not a closer. I don’t think he has the command or control to be a closer, and a 7th or 8th inning guy just doesn’t rank that highly to me. He has a decent fastball and curveball, but a closer needs at least one big time plus pitch and great control and I don’t think he has either. I know he is still recovering from TJ surgery, but he didn’t have either of those when he was drafted either so I don’t think he will gain either in the future.
by uthornfan on
Jul 28, 2008 1:46 PM CDT
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I have to think
that for a lot of guys, it’s a “prove to me that you’ve recovered” and “what have you done for me lately” mentality, as well as a fresh perspective. sometimes, it’s easier to get more excited about a Dutch or Feliz new kid on the block, and easier to forget about a Diamond. personally, I’m sticking by him, but I’m a pretty loyal person. I think the strength of our organization today compared to where it was the last time Diamond was rated before he was injured has changed so much that it’s very difficult to gauge where he fits in among the newer draftees/international signees/trade products
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on
Jul 28, 2008 4:02 PM CDT
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I voted Arias
because this is prospect number 20 and maybe my vote will raise his trade value.
Ephesians 1:3-10
by kwellborn on Jul 28, 2008 1:53 PM CDT 0 recs
Fabio
man, the love for Fabio’s completely disappeared…and no love for Boscan…I guess I might be overvalueing pitching but Fabio is just WAY too young to be written off. Especially for Utility IF guys like Lemon and Vallejo. just my 2-pence but I’ve been voting for Fabio the past few rounds. This disappointing season be damned!
Here are just a few of the key ingredients: dynamite, pole vaulting, laughing gas, choppers - can you see how incredible this is going to be? - hang gliding, come on! -- Dignan
by Hypo-Luxa on Jul 28, 2008 1:54 PM CDT 0 recs
ERA and Ks
he has yet to post an ERA below 5.5 and doesn’t exactly rack up the Ks I really don’t see him as being in the same league. Most of the other guys on the list have had or are having really good success. He never has.
by bushe on
Jul 28, 2008 2:12 PM CDT
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Vallejo
Its between Vallejo and Lemon in my book. I like them both, but Vallejo seems to have all the tools to be a bit more of a fit at one spot, while Lemon’s bat will get him on the field, but doesnt seem to project at any one spot.
by blalock84 on Jul 28, 2008 1:57 PM CDT 0 recs
I'm just
throwing darts now.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Jul 28, 2008 2:20 PM CDT 0 recs
Just now?
Shoot, I’ve been a dart thrower from the beginning.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Jul 28, 2008 5:49 PM CDT
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Diamond just hasn't shown me anything in the last 3 years
to prove he belongs in the top 20.
by cmkelly29 on Jul 28, 2008 3:07 PM CDT 0 recs
Yea...
Im cautiously optimistic with him, but he has yet to pitch well over an extended period of time for us. If he does, i think he catapults up into the top 15 but he’s 26 and age is definitely a factor in this. He could really turn out well, especially in a bullpen role, but he’s alot of projection and little results and at his age, that doesnt warrant a high ranking here
by blalock84 on
Jul 28, 2008 3:10 PM CDT
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He's 25.
He has three above average pitches, and he knows how to use them.
by NoNameOnCard on
Jul 28, 2008 11:30 PM CDT
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didn't he just switch to a CB
during his rehab which means he has been throwing in live game situation for no more than 4 months? I think he needs to throw it a bit longer before we start calling it AA. Also his walk walk got progressively worse during his 2 years prior to injury and was even worse his fresh/soph years (as a reliever). And next year he turns 26 and won’t be on the staff yet. I think he’s a success if he makes it on the staff post ASB 09 in whatever capacity. I am like blalock84 cautiously optimistic esp if his new breaking ball is the real deal.
by Goyogringo on
Jul 29, 2008 12:08 AM CDT
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Adding to what I said above...
He has three above average pitches RIGHT NOW, and his stuff isn’t as good as it will be next year. If you want a dark horse with a serious chance at the #5 spot in the Texas Rangers rotation next April, Thomas Diamond is your guy.
I’m repeating myself here, but with his fastball still about 3-4 MPH slower than it was pre-surgery, he̵