Rangers Attendance
Z linked the DMN article this morning about Ranger attendance in the main thread. I dug a little deeper because the piece just struck me as being overblown.
Gary Jacobson writes that the Rangers are experiencing a 20% drop in attendance so far this year. He mentions four culprits: 1) The Rangers had already played 9 home games against the Yankees and Red Sox by this time last year (they've yet to host either team in '08), 2) a 15% drop in season ticket sales for '08, 3) the hot weather, and 4) the economy.
Attendance is down, no doubt, and by any measure.
Yet, Jacobson overlooked the fact that, last year, the Rangers hosted the Cubs, baseball's other big road draw in a Tuesday through Thursday series for a 3 game average of 38,087.
The Rangers also had their home opener last year during the 1st weekend - hosting over 120,000 fans while playing against Boston in abnormally cold April weather. This year's home opener was on the second Tuesday of the season against Baltimore and due to a rainout and subsequent doubleheader, the Rangers hosted 64,368 for the first three games.
The Rangers also hosted a Memorial Day weekend series in '07 (which have typically been big draws, although the holiday itself isn't). This year they were in Cleveland for that series. In '07 the Rangers hosted the Angels in front of 46,105 for a Wednesday 4th of July game. This year - on the road.
The scheduling gods went against the Rangers this year. I could even throw in that the Rangers had to play 9 on the road after an All-Star Break in which Josh Hamilton was the national sports headline story.
Just some thoughts. Attendance is down, but it's not the apocalypse.
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Agree
the schedule hasn’t been too advantageous in regard to ticket sales. However I do think the economy is a factor, especially considering how far away Arlington is from Dallas.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Jul 28, 2008 5:10 PM CDT 0 recs
yup, move the stadium to dallas
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Jul 29, 2008 2:00 AM CDT
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Never gonna happen
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on
Jul 29, 2008 7:25 AM CDT
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Distance
I think that’s the single biggest reason. The Rangers had some pretty hopeless teams in the early part of the decade that managed to draw half-way well. What’s changed?
Well, traffic congestion gets worse every year, little by little, and gas prices have increased a whole hell of a lot. The Rangers prime market for ticket sales should be Dallas’ northern suburbs. Higher density, more disposable income. I’m not sure how much other economic factors have affected people up there; this area is suffering compared to a few years ago but there’s not the rash of foreclosures there is in other parts of the country. But gasoline will make anybody think twice about taking a 65 mile round trip.
I’ve said this since it opened, but they had a great opportunity to move the stadium downtown when they built the new ballpark. Instead, they left it in no-man’s land. Fort Worth isn’t all that big of a city, and the per capita income isn’t very high. Arlington was a nice town when I was a kid, but I wouldn’t say it’s a desirable place to live now. Seems like it’s gone down hill. There’s also nothing else to do in Arlington except go to a baseball game. Most people aren’t going to spend a day at Six Flags or Wet n’ Wild, then go to a ballgame at night. A lot of people make the argument that the theme parks help the Rangers but I don’t see how. Tourists don’t go to baseball games, and tourists also go to downtown Dallas to the School Book Depository and museums. You’re more likely to snag that crowd downtown, too. And, of course, downtown has mass transit. Rail straight from Plano and Garland. TRE from the mid cities and Fort Worth. Even the poor folks in South Dallas would attend some games if they could hop on the train, not pay parking, and sit in the bleachers. I do a lot of business in S. Dallas and people there ARE interested in baseball.
So they shot themselves in the foot on this one. I used to live in Denton and Plano and I didn’t go to many games because of the traffic and distances involved. I now live downtown and simply don’t have time to attend many games, but have gotten to two this year. It’s only about 30 minutes away for me from my door to the the Temple’s parking lot.
Let’s take a closer look at what someone from N. Dallas has to do to get their family to a game. Many work downtown, and get off work at 5:30 or so. They then have to drive through the rush hour all the way back to where they live to pick up the wife and kids. Then they have to get back in the SUV and drive all the way out to Arlington. It’s very inconvenient if you’re trying to make a 7pm start.
Add the economic slowdown on top of all that and it’s no surprise attendance has dropped. Not to mention the fact that they’ve fielded one decent team since 1999. But in my mind it’s the ballpark’s remote location that’s key. Bizarre decision considering that was around the time Rail was beginning to service downtown and the plans for expansion have been known forever. And the population growth patterns were expected. In the long run it would have made more sense to enter into an agreement with Dallas to get that pricey real estate downtown. They probably couldn’t get taxpayers to fund construction back then, but I think they could’ve got some land. Hell, there’s room to build a ballpark in the Cedars along Lamar right now and I imagine there was back then too.
I could go on and on about this subject forever. It’s that kind of short-sightedness that pisses me off. I mean you can pretty much stick a football stadium anywhere you want. They play eight home games. You could build the damn thing in Alvarado and if the Cowboys were having a good year they’d sell it out. But baseball’s a whole ‘nother animal.
And I think the heat may have something to do with it too. The NWS will give you comma-delimited data sets…have a look at what’s been going on over the last few years.
There’s a lot of factors obviously but location, location, location is the biggest one. Then losing. Then heat. That’s my guess.
by Black Francis on
Jul 29, 2008 9:27 AM CDT
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Southern and Northeast Tarrant
are growing, high income areas. Cities like Mansfield and Keller.
I’ve had this argument before on newberg’s site, but to act like there’s “significantly” more disposable income in the Dallas suburbs than there is in the Tarrant suburbs is really just a stereotype.
Also, I live in Mansfield and work in Dallas, and it’s hard for me to get to a 7pm start after getting off work also. I have zero sympathy for those in N. Dallas. Unless you live in Arlington, it’s going to be difficult to get there no matter what.
Besides, all this bitching is completely worthless. They’re NOT moving the stadium. They’re NOT building another one. I mean, if it makes you feel better to write up these crazy long posts, then fine. But, it’s a moot point. The stadium’s location isn’t changing - so the only thing they can do is put a better product on the field. If I could buy futures in Rangers attendance, I’d do it in a heartbeat. The way the talent is growing in this system - they’re going to be good, and the attendance will reflect that.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on
Jul 29, 2008 10:20 AM CDT
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Also
it’s likely with Jerry’s World coming in right down the road, that some sort of rail system (maybe just a connection to the TRE) gets put in. There’s going to be demand for it….
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on
Jul 29, 2008 10:22 AM CDT
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Plans are in the works
...but it’s years away and it’s not because of the football stadium. Eight home games a season? You don’t build mass transit around that. You don’t even do it for baseball’s 81 games. If a line is being put in anyway then you put a station there which is what the plan is.
It’s not going to be an extension of the TRE, which runs way north of that area. It’s going to be a different commuter rail but like I said it’s a long way off. Part of the 2025 mobility plan. I believe the maps are on NTCOG’s website.
by Black Francis on
Jul 29, 2008 5:03 PM CDT
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David vs. Goliath
I’m grew up in Tarrant County, ok, but it really bothers me that people there think it’s equal to Dallas. It’s not even close. Look at some population density maps. I don’t care how fast Keller, Mansfield, and Burleson are growing, they’re never ever ever going to catch up to Dallas’ suburbs, several of which have 100,000 people or more and are still growing.
And the census bureau will tell you all you need to know about per capita income. Raw population is more important in this scenario but most of Dallas’ northern suburbs are far more wealthy than MOST of Fort Worth’s. They are larger and there are more of them, too. It’s not a stereotype…it’s data.
Obviously they’re not going to build a new ballpark anytime soon. You’re right that one of the best ways to get people in the seats is to field a good team that they’ll want to watch. That will maximize attendance wherever the stadium is. But with the way things have been going since 1999, I’d add that they should decrease ticket prices. If nothing else the team would get some good press.
My complaint is with the lack of foresight on this issue. I have a right to complain and I will whether you like it or not. Someday they will build a new park and hopefully they’ll choose the location more carefully. If you think my posts are crazy and long, by all means do not read them.
by Black Francis on
Jul 29, 2008 5:24 PM CDT
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Fair Enough
to complain about the lack of foresight.
But, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not something that will change in the near future. Near meaning what? 30 years? 40? So it just seems like wasted space.
I mean, if it makes you feel better about it, go ahead, but I think it’s pointless.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on
Jul 29, 2008 5:44 PM CDT
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Its No
farther from Dallas to Arlington than when the Rangers drew almost 3 million. There are some economic factors that can be factored in a little, but its usually hot in Texas in July and August.
The Rangers have had bad results for quite a while and that certainly factors in. I do think that the casual fan is much more oriented to backing a winner and not just experiencing going to the ball game as they were in the past.
All of this adds up to good attendance again if the team starts putting a winning product on the field on a regular basis.
by mcgee48c on Jul 28, 2008 5:35 PM CDT 0 recs
I think the biggest reason is
Fans are just tired of losing and ticket prices going up following a losing year. Until the Rangers start winning on a consistent basis they will just watch on tv as they are doing this year. Ticket sales are down but TV ratings are up.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on
Jul 28, 2008 5:39 PM CDT
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But not until next year
If you look at the chart that accompanies the story, generally speaking, a winning record produces an uptick in sales the following year. Not so much in the year that the team played well.
Unless they jump into the wild card race … and Dale Hansen starts talking about it … they’re screwed this year.
by robert_d_wilfong on
Jul 28, 2008 11:05 PM CDT
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?
1. there are dozens of ticket promos at any given time making it nearly impossible to pay full price if you will spend two minutes looking.
2. the NYY games aren’t even sold out – and it’s next week. there were lower infield seats available yesterday when i checked. there are good seats well below face value on stubhub for the same games.
3. the team is playing better than last year – 7.5 games better than same day last year.
the fans are hurting in the pockets. that’s the single biggest factor. however, when you realize that attendance is up across the nation, you can’t deny the fact that poor personnel moves have hurt this ball club. i agree with others that people aren’t as willing to support mediocrity in this economic climate.
by sam in so cal on Jul 28, 2008 6:04 PM CDT 0 recs
Yankees
Just because there are tickets available doesn’t mean they aren’t sold out.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Jul 28, 2008 6:15 PM CDT
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i dont get it
i went to texasrangers.com yesterday, selected four seats > best available and was shown four seats lower infield for both games i checked. i’m not sure when four good seats available becomes sold out, but i always thought it was when there were no seats available to the general public.
my point is that there are good seats available from the team (not secondary market where they are selling below face value for the same NYY games), and you are getting hung up on semantics.
by sam in so cal on
Jul 28, 2008 6:37 PM CDT
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OK
Im sure its not a sell out. I thought you meant stubhub or some service like that. You can et tickets to just about anygame you want. As long as they are sold the team considers it a sellout even if a butt isn’t in every seat. I apologize for the misinterpretation
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Jul 28, 2008 6:43 PM CDT
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Simply put
Dallas fans as a whole are fickle about anything outside of football and will not start coming out until the Rangers are sniffing the playoffs again.
by rcreative on Jul 28, 2008 6:07 PM CDT 0 recs
Too bad Cogen is gone
Then we could get some stupid comment from his piece of shit lying ass about how the fans are to blame.
Let me have a diablo sandwich, a Dr. Pepper, and make it fast I'm in a God damned hurry!
by DaheelzCM on Jul 28, 2008 8:39 PM CDT 0 recs
no attraction
there is nothing to attract the average fan to right now
they’re close with the likes of Kinsler and Hamilton
the fact is the Ballpark is not going to attract fans by itself
they need too cultivate a following of the players and make them a bigger part of the attraction - plus winning, which cures all
by simplesimon on Jul 28, 2008 9:43 PM CDT 0 recs
I emailed Nolan Ryan
about some beer discounts for full season ticket holders. I also suggested some ideas for some specials that season ticket holders should get. I’m waiting his response
"Over the years, my favorite pastime outside baseball is driving through a pasture looking at cattle." - Nolan Ryan
by hurlerhurley on
Jul 28, 2008 11:35 PM CDT
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I'm the one to get this done
I’ve been a full season ticket holder for so damn long.
Nolan will hear me out on this. I’m talking beer specials. Give me some love on this baby. I’m damn sure working for us season ticket holders
"Over the years, my favorite pastime outside baseball is driving through a pasture looking at cattle." - Nolan Ryan
by hurlerhurley on
Jul 28, 2008 11:39 PM CDT
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i can understand
a drive of an hour or more getting to the game can be tough these days, but i find it funny people griping about driving from Dallas to Arlington. out here in west texas, we’ll drive a half an hour just to eat supper. i’ll drive to Midland which is 2 hours away just to watch Frisco.
by mo on Jul 28, 2008 10:17 PM CDT 0 recs
Driving out there...
...isn’t quite the same as driving around here. I have to go to Sherman today. I’d rather make that drive than make a round trip to Fort Worth, in spite of the fact that I have to drive up Central to get there and back. Once you get to McKinney it’s “easy driving”, probably similar to what you have out there.
by Black Francis on
Jul 29, 2008 9:32 AM CDT
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John Danks
eom
"Over the years, my favorite pastime outside baseball is driving through a pasture looking at cattle." - Nolan Ryan
by hurlerhurley on Jul 28, 2008 10:40 PM CDT 0 recs
What about ticket prices?
Everyone forget the new ticket prices? They raised alot of them again! Then they added the stinking “premium game” tax or whatever you want to call it. It’s not worth it to go to the games you want to go to anymore.
by altercall on Jul 29, 2008 12:58 AM CDT 0 recs
good thing is
we are gonna win 3 out of 4 against the mariners, sweep the bluye jays because they’re all about pitching and they’re not gonna be able to pitch here, then we will win 2 oout of 3 against the yankees if not sweep them. so after the homestand we’re gonna be about 2 games behind the red sox in the wild card
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on Jul 29, 2008 2:03 AM CDT 0 recs
Amazing how
raising ticket prices and fielding noncompetitive teams for almost a decade leads to falling ticket sales.
This is almost as big of a story as GM and Ford losing money after betting the ranch on big trucks and SUVs and gas going to $4, or an industry based on lending money to noncreditworthy people collapsing.
Im utterly shocked.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on Jul 29, 2008 5:10 AM CDT 0 recs
Attendance
While the economy has had an impact on things the people who bought season tickets already paid their money. Where distance and economy are affecting the team are in the casual fans. The ones who maybe only go to one or two games a year that live say up in Plano or Keller. Add in all the freeway construction and improvements going in for the new Cowboys stadium and its just not a fun experience for fans to make it to the game. The die hard fans and season ticket holders will still come and they will get their money. Its the casual fans that they are hurting for.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 29, 2008 10:25 AM CDT 0 recs
Freeway Construction
It was planned long before the Cowboys new facility was announced. I’m sure Arlington may be doing some local infrastructure improvements because of the new stadium, but TxDOT takes years to even begin construction on freeway improvements. I believe there were some revisions to the ultimate design concerning access ramps and the like, but if I remember correctly the reconstruction started going through environmental two or three years before the stadium project was announced.
by Black Francis on
Jul 29, 2008 5:31 PM CDT
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yeah
But trust me without the stadium those freeways haven’t been touched yet. That stadium set everything in motion.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Jul 29, 2008 8:09 PM CDT
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Trust me
I used to work in the business and my company was bidding on the ROW acquisition before the stadium was announced. When they start buying right-of-way in urban areas, construction’s usually imminent. Plus just look east from there. They’re redoing the freeway in sections as it was planned all along.
It’s an interstate highway. Federal funding is involved…it’s a slow process. They don’t just say “hey lets widen the freeway” and then go and start tearing things up. These projects begin years in advance. Sometimes they do get slowed down by funding, but with increase in revenue from gas taxes lots of projects around the state are going full steam ahead.
by Black Francis on
Jul 29, 2008 10:34 PM CDT
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I live in Dallas
You’re blowing smoke. Totally untrue.
I Stole The Red Finger !
by Clueless on
Jul 29, 2008 11:28 PM CDT
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