Thursday a.m. stuff

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 8:43 AM CDT

That could have gone better yesterday. And Warner Madrigal's major league debut could have gone a little bit better.

Evan Grant's game story talks about the bullpen situation, and Ron Washington's hands largely being tied yesterday. With Eddie Guardado, Frankie Francisco, and Josh Rupe all unavailable, and Luis Mendoza only going 4 2/3 innings, I don't think there was much choice but to go with Madrigal in the 7th. And given how Wright performed once he came into the game, trying to squeeze two or three innings out of him would have been a bad idea, as well.

Jim Reeves thinks Washington should have gone back to Francisco or Rupe, rather than Madrigal, but realistically, if you aren't going to use Madrigal in a situation like yesterday, given the workload Francisco and Rupe have had lately, he probably shouldn't be in the majors.

Grant also explains why, even though he feels Washington did a poor job deploying the pen last night, he doesn't think Washington is a poor manager. Grant thinks bringing Madrigal in in the 5th, instead of Benoit, was the better choice, but I don't know that you want to have Madrigal make his debut at Yankee Stadium down 2 with the bases loaded, particularly given Madrigal's command issues. I think you can legitimately question why Madrigal hadn't been used before yesterday, though, and gotten his feet wet in a more low pressure situation.

Jon Daniels says the Rangers were prepared to offer Michael Inoa significantly more than he ended up getting from the A's, but never got the chance to make an offer. And you know, I can't really blame Inoa for going to Oakland, given their track record...and I think it bodes well for his future that, as a 16 year old, he showed the maturity to take into account what was going to be best for his development, rather than just taking the biggest paycheck.

In other news, Scott Feldman is getting a couple of days extra rest, Chris Shelton cleared waivers and has until Saturday to decide whether to accept an outright assignment to AAA or become a free agent, and Ron Washington is hinting that David Murphy may sit more often against lefties.

And T.R. Sullivan offers his memories of Yankee Stadium...

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Did they rush Madrigal to the majors??

It seems to me that they should have kept him in AAA until September and then given him a callup and gone with someone like the Wes Littleton’s of the world….

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

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by hinduplaya on Jul 3, 2008 9:00 AM CDT 0 recs

Littleton

probably would have crapped himself in that situation, too

by Baider on Jul 3, 2008 9:09 AM CDT up 0 recs

would he?

...i would have liked to have seen a pitcher with big-league experience, and more exposure in pressure-situations take the ball last night… that just wasn’t possible…

Littleton and K-Loe… they might not be pitching lights out in Triple-A, but is it too much of a stretch to think they would have fared better last night than Madrigal?

by oc on Jul 3, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up 0 recs

And

its not like Littleton and Loe are old either. They’re both in their mid 20’s and can be assets to this team

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Jul 3, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

problem is

with the successes of Boggs, Hurley, Chris Davis, and somewhat German Duran and Max-Ram, Daniels and co. probably decided to give the higher-ceiling rookie a shot to keep this theme moving along. now that we’ve seen a larger degree of failure, they may bring up a more experienced arm for the pen in the future…or, we may see Tommy Hunter soon. you never know…things aren’t working out as they always have in the past, and I must admit, I kinda like that.

Boggs shouldn’t have caught that popup, but if he had, I imagine the inning would’ve gone much differently for Madrigal. SHIT does he have some stuff…I think we’ve got ourselves a bonafide young stud of a bullpen arm, thanks to the Angels

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 3, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'd rather see Madrigal than Littleton/Loe

Loe is hurt, first of all.

Littleton has been significantly worse at Oklahoma than Madrigal has. And the last time he was up here, he basically had the “thing” in Detroit. Let’s go back to that game thread and see if anyone wanted to keep him around…

He may get another chance at some point, but I was glad to see them go to a fresh face/arm rather than recycle a mediocre guy we’ve seen before.

For the record, though, I agree Wright should have been in to start the 7th.

by Baider on Jul 3, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up 0 recs

I don't think Warner Madrigal...

has ever before been described as “a fresh face”.

Pedro: "I wasn't cockfighting, I just have a wide stance."

by tricer on Jul 3, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up 0 recs

If you

lock Eddie Volquez, 1 pig, two sticks, and some charcaol in a room for a week what do you end up with?

Warner Madrigal(without the ERA of course).

Please forgive any and all typos, mispellings, etc.
Your kindess in this matter is appreciated.

by red shoe ranger on Jul 3, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up 0 recs

Ugh

Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .

by Brian Thomas on Jul 3, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up 0 recs

good point

The man looks like a bulldog.

by Baider on Jul 3, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

It's so obvious that

you go with Wright in the 7th! How are Wash’s hands tied if Wright’s available? Maybe Wright gives up 6 and then Madrigal comes in to mop up, but the dynamic is entirely different then. Wright will be able to shake it off because he’s a vet that’s been through it before and Madrigal’s ego isn’t shattered in his first mlb appearance. I’m a fan of Wash, i’m not a fire Wash guy, think he’s done well on a lot of counts, it just seems like he makes a bonehead move like this every time we’re going for a sweep, and this one is potentially more harmful than just this game. What 24 year old kid is not going to be freaked out by going through a drubbing with 50 thousand yankee fans screaming at him? Wash’s weakest suit is putting himself in the players shoes….. remember yanking Cat when he was online for a cycle?

"I am not a never-nude" - Tobias Fünke

by jcAustin on Jul 3, 2008 9:24 AM CDT 0 recs

Well

What do you do?

Try to get 3 innings out of Wright?

Try to get 2 innings out of Wright, and use C.J. for the 4th night in a row?

Given the state of the bullpen, if you weren’t going to use Madrigal yesterday in that situation, he shouldn’t have been on the 25 man roster.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 9:32 AM CDT up 0 recs

Couldn't he have gone with Wright..

for the first 2 innings.. and yes he did wind up sucking anyway but just the idea that Wash would think that Madrigal was the better choice in that situation is the point.

It’s not like he “wasn’t available” because he had to wind up coming into the game anyway.

The ninth goes to CeeJ IF it’s still a one run lead. YES he pitched 3 nights in a row but his pitch total for those 3 night was just 35.

Yeh let’s bring in some guy who’s only been pitching for a year and a half in his life..after being an outfielder before that to pitch to the meat of the Yankee order, in front of 50K plus fans in Yankee Stadium, in a one run game.. unbelievable!

"I am right even when I'm wrong."

the unstoppable MILES

by LAMuscleFag on Jul 3, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up 0 recs

...Jamey was tired... it was obvious...

...i mean, the guy gave up 6 runs himself…

maybe he comes in and gets the outs quicker… but, the way he was leaving his pitches up in the zone… i seriously doubt the results would have been much different.

by oc on Jul 3, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up 0 recs

yes that would up being true..

but you didn’t know that until after he was in the game.
You got to go with him in that situation.. at least give him a shot.
Madrigal fell to pieces under the pressure of the situation and now you have to re-build his confidence by doing what you should have done in the first place.

"I am right even when I'm wrong."

the unstoppable MILES

by LAMuscleFag on Jul 3, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up 0 recs

what should have been done*

"I am right even when I'm wrong."

the unstoppable MILES

by LAMuscleFag on Jul 3, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up 0 recs

personally, i don't see any reason why he should be up with the big club in the first place.

...i don’t have the numbers in front of me, but by all accounts, he hasn’t exactly been owning Oklahoma City.

by oc on Jul 3, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up 0 recs

+ 1 exactly..

it would be nice if he was the type of guy who could of came in for 3 innings and given the rest of the guys a break.

"I am right even when I'm wrong."

the unstoppable MILES

by LAMuscleFag on Jul 3, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

that's the problem...

...we only have one long-guy in the ‘pen right now, since Luis moved into the rotation.

not very smart, considering you have one of the more inconsistant bullpens in the AL.

by oc on Jul 3, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up 0 recs

Question

Madrigal fell to pieces under the pressure of the situation and now you have to re-build his confidence by doing what you should have done in the first place.

Did he really fall to pieces under the pressure of the situation?

Or did he just not get the job done, despite not being terrible?

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up 0 recs

Well ..

I can’t imagine being knocked around in a high pressure situation is the best thing for ones self-esteem your first time on a major league mound. Perhaps fell to pieces is a bit of a strong description however we can’t really determine if the lack of getting the job done was because he was overwhelmed by it all or he just didn’t have it OR a combination of both.

"I am right even when I'm wrong."

the unstoppable MILES

by LAMuscleFag on Jul 3, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

well he looked pretty freakin' good in spots

if he puts it all together, I think this could’ve been a good situation for him. painful as it was, and as bad as it hurt the team – a sweep at the Yanks park would’ve been huge.

I hope we don’t just send him down now. I want him to play vs. the Angels for sure

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 3, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up 0 recs

but quite honestly..

it all goes back on the laps of guys like Millwood…who don’t give you more than 5 innings these days. That’s obviously the root of the problem. Thank god for Eric Hurley!

"I am right even when I'm wrong."

the unstoppable MILES

by LAMuscleFag on Jul 3, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up 0 recs

Millwood hurt

Note that Millwood only went 5 innings because he took a line drive off his knee.

This pitching staff has been hounded by injuries all year. Its no wonder why they were short handed last night. Thankfully the off-day will allow them to reset their bullpen and get everyone back in shape. Personally, I would have asked Eddie to try and get Abreu, and brought in Madrigal after that, or then gone to Wright. But since I didn’t watch the game, its hard for me to judge.

by iblum on Jul 3, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up 0 recs

yes on #2

If things get out of hand, then go with Madrigal. Your ‘given the state of the bullpen’ statement just ignores who Madrigal is (a 24 year old who has never pitched in the Bigs) just like Wash did. I agree with you if you’re saying the first mistake is to have Madrigal on the roster, but once he’s there, Wash has to take into account the person, that’s his apparent blind spot.

"I am not a never-nude" - Tobias Fünke

by jcAustin on Jul 3, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

If he's on the roster...

...you need to use him in that situation. I don’t think expecting Wright to go 2 innings, and Wilson to pitch for the 4th day in a row, is realistic.

I think saying that Madrigal can’t be used in that situation because he’s never pitched in the majors doesn’t make sense. He’s on the roster, you have very few options available, and you have to use him.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up 0 recs

Why is he on the roster?

He hasn’t been pitching long and had far from dominated AAA. Littleton has struggled this year in AAA and Fuku has struggled in the big leagues, but either seem to have been a better fit at this point than Madrigal.

BTW, he doesn’t seem to be a future closer to me. Results aside, I just didn’t see glimpses of electric stuff. The 3-1 pitch to Arod was nice, but other than that didn’t he top out at like 92. You would think that he’d be juiced and be throwing harder than normal. Is that normal?

"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08

by badradiorules on Jul 3, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up 0 recs

OK

but there’s nothing Wash could do about that last night, which is Adams point

www.mavsmoneyball.com

by Wes Cox on Jul 3, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up 0 recs

Absolutely

Didn’t question Adam’s point at all.

"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08

by badradiorules on Jul 3, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up 0 recs

Oh, ok

www.mavsmoneyball.com

by Wes Cox on Jul 3, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up 0 recs

Why couldn't Francisco pitch the 8th?

30 total pitches the previous 2 nights and he can’t handle a 3rd night in a row? Really? Pitch him and win the game. Off day Thursday.

by Baider on Jul 3, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up 0 recs

My understanding is...

...Francisco can’t go 3 days in a row.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'd just ask, "why not"

Not to you – but to the coaching staff. The guy is what, 3+ years off of surgery? He’s 28 years old, healthy, and can’t go 3 days in a row?

by Baider on Jul 3, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

Email Evan Grant

Ask him to answer it in his newsletter. I think that’s a good question.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

I think the problems started in the 5th inning.

Granted, all of this is in hindsight, but I think it makes more sense all around to bring in Madrigal in the fifth.

Madrigal pitches the 5th and 6th, and if things go well, even part of the 7th.
Wright pitches the remainder of the 7th and 8th.
C.J. pitches the 9th. I know it would be four days in a row, but he had thrown just 37 pitches in three games. And you can hopefully give Wilson two days off after that, since your bullpen would be back at full strength.

"Boy, that is a gutless, 6-foot-7, .200-hitting formerly good player. What a joke." -Tom Grieve RE: Richie Sexson

by ghtd36 on Jul 3, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

Oh, and I forgot Benoit.

He’s available, too.

"Boy, that is a gutless, 6-foot-7, .200-hitting formerly good player. What a joke." -Tom Grieve RE: Richie Sexson

by ghtd36 on Jul 3, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up 0 recs

Problems

For me the problems started when Ian flubbed that potential double-play. That missed play ended up in 4 unearned runs and numerous extra pitches for Mendoza. If Ian makes that play my guess is Luis goes at least another inning, maybe two and none of us are talking about Wash’s bullpen management today.

by rcreative on Jul 3, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up 0 recs

Madrigal in the 5th

You bring him in with the bases loaded and 2 outs in the 5th, down 2, and you think that’s a less stressful situation than him coming in to start the 7th?

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up 0 recs

i would say hand the ball to Frankie for one batter...

...but if he doesn’t get that one batter, you’re just running him into the ground as well.

by oc on Jul 3, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up 0 recs

Frankie

He’d pitched a ton the last couple of games.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 10:08 AM CDT up 0 recs

that's what i'm saying...

...one batter.

by oc on Jul 3, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up 0 recs

one batter

pitching at all is a lot. getting warmed up, etc. even one batter ruins the day off

Rare Gnats Sex

by ab03 on Jul 3, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up 0 recs

So what?

Off day Thursday. Chance to sweep in Yankee Stadium

by Baider on Jul 3, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up 0 recs

Well

A) With two outs, it’s a different situation.
B) You’re facing Posada, not Abreu/Rodriguez/Giambi

"Boy, that is a gutless, 6-foot-7, .200-hitting formerly good player. What a joke." -Tom Grieve RE: Richie Sexson

by ghtd36 on Jul 3, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up 0 recs

Really?

Bases loaded, down 2, an experienced, patient, and pretty damn good hitter at the plate with a chance to bust the game open, the crowd going nuts, no margin for error…

You think that’s a more comfortable situation to bring him into?

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up 0 recs

The biggest thing, to me, is that there's two outs.

Beyond that, you have to retire one batter with a .837 OPS, rather than three guys averaging .928 OPS, including a guy who has already hit a grand slam in the game and the reigning MVP.

"Boy, that is a gutless, 6-foot-7, .200-hitting formerly good player. What a joke." -Tom Grieve RE: Richie Sexson

by ghtd36 on Jul 3, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up 0 recs

It seems to me...

...that having two outs, but the bases loaded and zero margin of error in the middle of a rally, is going to be a more stress-laden situation (particularly for a guy who struggles to throw strikes) than coming in with no one on and no one out, even if he’s facing three very good hitters.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

I disagree, but I think we're going to have to agree to disagree.

"Boy, that is a gutless, 6-foot-7, .200-hitting formerly good player. What a joke." -Tom Grieve RE: Richie Sexson

by ghtd36 on Jul 3, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up 0 recs

With the off-day....

It seems someone might could have gone….

At the least I would have brought Wright into the 7th first…and hoped he could have a quick few innings. Then had Madrigal mop up if it didn’t go well.

I don’t think CJ would have turned down the oppurtunity to go a 4th day.

by clinton33 on Jul 3, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up 0 recs

I'm sure he wouldn't have

It doesn’t mean that he would be effective, though, and it doesn’t mean that it isn’t going to have an effect on him down the road.

by Adam J. Morris on Jul 3, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up 0 recs

very true...

Its probably not fair to CJ as well given the fact the media and many of us(including myself) are so hard on him when he doesn’t pitch well.

by clinton33 on Jul 3, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up 0 recs

Madrigal

I was at the gym listening to the Yankee announcers on my headset. They were quite respectful. They couldn’t believe Wash went with Madrigal in that situation. They kept repeating it over and over. Has he only been pitching like a year and half? The Yankee announcers were very aware the bullpen was overworked but still.. that is like the last guy you want to put in that situation. I was like …is this one of those Wash WTF moments that we’ve all grown to love? Now you have a rookie who’s shellshocked after getting raked by the middle of the Yankee order in a high pressure situation. There had to have beensomebody they could of used anybody but Madrigal. The Yankee announcers were also talking about how his fastball is flat as a board, absolutely NO movement on it.

"I am right even when I'm wrong."

the unstoppable MILES

by LAMuscleFag on Jul 3, 2008 9:26 AM CDT 0 recs

Pitching in bad luck

I didn’t think that the Yankees “raked” Madrigal all over the yard.

He broke Abreu’s bat for a bloop double that landed right on the chalk.
Giambi hit a good pitch. The pitch was low and away and not struck all that well, just well placed.
Cano’s single was a seeing eye grounder. The other hit by that rookie was a soft-liner over the infield.
The only ball struck well was by Posada for the double.

True Madrigal didn’t have good location and could only throw fastballs for strikes, but I thought he was a victim of bad luck more than bad pitching.

by T Coleman on Jul 3, 2008 1:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

Who cares about second guessing

In game decisions this season.

Lets talk about how Milton Bradley trade arrow is still green and pointing up baby.

DYNASTY PEOPLE. BIG PICTURE. Remind yourself of this everyday.

by SaltyGoesYard on Jul 3, 2008 9:26 AM CDT 0 recs

+ WS

"Do they know who I am? Do they know my status? Thats what I thought."
-Miles 6/21/08

.501 or bust!

by Jayslick on Jul 3, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up 0 recs

it all depends

on who wants him, how desperate they are, and what they have coming up the pipeline as far as high-ceiling pitching prospects…

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 3, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up 0 recs

Thanks man

If we ever have a head injury and lose all capacity to remember the super obvious, we can rest easy knowing you’re on watch.

“Do you want to drive to the Tom Thumb, Myrtle?”

“That all depends. Do we have enough gas in the car? Is Tom Thumb open? Do you know where the car keys are? Are we hungry? Does Tom Thumb take cash?”

Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .

by Brian Thomas on Jul 3, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

you lost me.

sorry I was so blatantly obvious, it carried over from an argument with a friend last night about trading Milton Bradley right now for whatever we can get (his argument) vs. the possibility of keeping him and re-signing him if we can’t get something very valuable in return (my argument)

"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."

by Walter Sobchak on Jul 3, 2008 6:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

Gee, and I thought

you guys must be friends.

Brian T is funny in a sarcastic way, even if he is ugly as sin.

”...and make it walk backwards.”

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley

by Rodney on Jul 3, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

No worries

Don't knock masturbation, it's sex with someone I love .

by Brian Thomas on Jul 4, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

Wising up?

Murphy playing less against lefties is a good idea.

About the Latin signings—have the Rangers been linked to anyone else? I haven’t seen any news…did they make grand pronouncements last year like the Padres yesterday, or were they quieter?

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Jul 3, 2008 9:29 AM CDT 0 recs

I'm with AJM

People are freaking out over this when really Wash didn’t have many options. The only thing that was misplayed was not getting Warner’s feet wet in a low pressure situation prior to last nights game.

Joe Morgan: (On Jay Bruce) I think he will. He brings energy to the team, and besides that, he is a pretty good hitter.
Ken Tremendous: I like that the #1 reason he will help his team is: "energy," and the distant #2 reason is: "ability to hit baseballs."

by TheBZA on Jul 3, 2008 9:39 AM CDT 0 recs

even then...

...i wouldn’t have wanted to see him Monday… or Tuesday…

i guess you could have thrown him out there Sunday with a four-run lead in the ninth inning… but didn’t the Rangers pad their lead in the 8th on Sunday? CJ was already warmed in the ‘pen, expecting to come into a tighter ballgame.

by oc on Jul 3, 2008 9:41 AM CDT up 0 recs

There wasn't a real ideal situation.

And last night certainly wasn’t it. I just really don’t think Wash had other options, other than sending him on in the 8th or 9th, which we can agree would have been even worse if it remained a 1 run game.

by TheBZA on Jul 3, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up 0 recs

it seems Eddie's day-to-day injury left us one option less in the 'pen...

...does anybody have an update on his health status?

if he’s not feeling any better, than we need to make a roster move before the Baltimore series.

by oc on Jul 3, 2008 9:44 AM CDT 0 recs

doesn't it make sense to have another long-guy in the 'pen right now?

...as inconsistant as Jack has been this year… i honestly wouldn’t want to see him go three-innings… especially considering how many pitches an inning he’s been throwing this year…

by oc on Jul 3, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up 0 recs