SI says Manny to the Dodgers
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2008 3:37 PM CDT
167 comments
SI's Jon Heyman says Manny has been traded by the BoSox to the Dodgers in a three way deal, with Jason Bay going to Boston and unknown commodities going to Pittsburgh.
Why a team with Andre Ethier, Matt Kemp, Andruw Jones, and Juan Pierre in the outfield (and no DH) would get Manny Ramirez is beyond me. Especially if Kemp or Ethier is going away to make room for Manny.
UPDATE -- Pirates get Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris from the Dodgers, and Brandon Moss and Craig Hansen from the Pirates. This actually seems like it makes sense for all parties.
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Are Either and/or Kemp...
still considered prospects? Are they invloved in the trade?
by RangerRedCaps on Jul 31, 2008 3:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Per Rosenthal.
Pirates outfielder Jason Bay is headed to the Red Sox. The Pirates will receive Andy LaRoche and right-hander Bryan Morris from the Dodgers and outfielder Brandon Moss and releiver Craig Hansen from the Red Sox.
Dodgers also get $7 million from Red Sox.
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 3:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
no way
LA can’t even afford that salary.
W: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
by hubcityraider on Jul 31, 2008 3:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
$7 MM
The Red Sox also pay $7M to the Dodgers (which I bet is almost all the remaining salary Manny had due for the rest of the year).
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 31, 2008 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Andruw Jones has sohwn no signs at all of getting it together
and its just a rental.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2008 3:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who plays CF, though?
Manny is a bad COF, and Ethier and Kemp are COFs.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ethier or Kemp
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that OF defense will be brutal
but it would seem thats what they would have to do.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think he is
the games i’ve seen him out there , he looked pretty good.
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a COF
He could play CF, but he’s not going to be very good out there.
Manny is a terrible defensive LF’er.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
horrible alignment in one of the biggest OFs in the majors. Bad fit
by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wonder how Manny will hit
in that park. especially the HRs.
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 31, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fair point
...i have no idea. hmm.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kemp
has already played more CF than COF this year. Not sure how good he is out there though.
by Randy Richardson on Jul 31, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right
He’s played more CF than I had thought.
He is stretched there, though.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im sure
that theyre just thinking short term as far as how to make it through the post season this year. Id imagine they have plans to find a more serviceable center fielder this offseason.
by 6th street on Jul 31, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boston
Gives up Manny, Hansen and Moss for Bay?
Theo pwns, again, and under pressure and absolutely NO leverage.
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 3:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bay's a nice piece.
But I think this is a step backwards for Boston. A decent deal for Epstein.
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if nothing else
I like the shake up from the perspective of the Red Sox. They needed anything to happen.
"that suzuki guy should go back to making cars" - My girlfriend after C.J.'s close in game 2
by tdi1985 on Jul 31, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
upgrade in the field...
and not quite as bad of a dropoff at the plate (Bay). I think it’s going to do wonders for them, but I’m a big Bay fan
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 31, 2008 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hansens been sucking I think
Moss is a nice pickup.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jul 31, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The scoop
Ken Rosenthal is reporting at this hour that the Dodgers, Red Sox and Pirates have engaged in a three-way deal, with Pittsburgh shipping Jason Bay to Boston, Boston shipping Manny Ramirez to Los Angeles, and a four-player package coming back the Pirates’ way, consisting of third baseman Andy LaRoche and right-hander Bryan Morris from the Dodgers, and outfielder Damien Moss and reliever Craig Hansen from the Red Sox.Boston will reportedly pay all of the $7 million remaining on Ramirez’s contract.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8398506/Source:-Red-Sox-trade-Manny-to-Dodgers
http://mvn.com/mlb-rangers/2008/07/31/rangers-mlb-trade-deadline-live-blog/
by jamcadbury on Jul 31, 2008 3:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthal added this:
“It is possible the Dodgers sent the Pirates an outfielder in the deal. The names are not confirmed.”
by jamcadbury on Jul 31, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That should also be Brandon Moss, not Damien Moss as Rosenthal initially reported
by jamcadbury on Jul 31, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking that had to be Brandon
Of course you can’t expect baseball reporters to actually get names right when they are rushing to be the first to report something, correct or not.
by uthornfan on Jul 31, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny thing
I asked Jamey after I wrote that if it was just incompetence on my end or if Rosenthal actually wrote that at first.
He replies it was Rosenthal…and then proceeded to inform me he was among those who informed Rosenthal of the error.
by jamcadbury on Jul 31, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jamey Newberg = man.
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 4:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aaaaand...
Welcome to the party 10 minutes late, ESPN.
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He should
have fun hitting and fielding in the Dodgers huge outfield. Great trade Dodgers! :)
Ephesians 1:3-10
by kwellborn on Jul 31, 2008 3:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
good deal
for the Pirates
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on Jul 31, 2008 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think they’re the winners in this deal.
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How long's it been since anyone could say that about the Pirates?
by Inkara1 on Jul 31, 2008 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
early 90's at least
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Jul 31, 2008 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay and Manny
both having basically the same type of year offensively, correct?
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 3:57 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
except
Boston traded one of them away plus 2 prospects for the other one!
W: "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
by hubcityraider on Jul 31, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference
Remember Bay they’ll have for 2 1/2 years… Manny would be gone after this one.
by TRanger on Jul 31, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny's option?
I thought he was demanding that it be picked up and that’s what killed the Marlins deal. All rumors of course. Maybe the Dodgers picked up the 2009 option.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jul 31, 2008 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
demanding they not pick it up…
That’s what the whole problem is..
He wants to be a free agent after this year.
by tyd3311 on Jul 31, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny
was just bitchign about wanting some committment one way or another. it was very evident that the Sox had no inclination of picking up this year’s team option, let alone the next 2 years at 20 mil. however, the Dodgers may be forced to do so. unless they hope to let him walk and pick up the 2 picks.
by 6th street on Jul 31, 2008 4:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Noo
Many wants committment in terms of a long-term deal
The Dodgers have already agreed not to pick up the options…
This whole mess is about Manny wanting to go on the open market and attempt to fetch a 100 mil dollar deal.
by tyd3311 on Jul 31, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yikes.
who in the hell is going to sign Manny, and for how long and how much, after this???
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 31, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny negotiated the removal of the option years and promised not to accept arbitration.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Jul 31, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boston
has Bay through ‘09. They had the rights to Manny through ‘10, if they chose to exercise the options.
by Randy Richardson on Jul 31, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops
Yeah I meant Bay was there through next year.
But as big of a distraction Manny has been it’s obvious he didn’t want those options used, although he’s acted like a baby before so if they would have given him another week or so he probably would have calmed down.
by TRanger on Jul 31, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well,
It was Boston’s decision on the options. This is the same Manny that the Red Sox have always had. Not sure why this situation was so irrepairable.
by Randy Richardson on Jul 31, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
Bay >>>> Manny on the field. Comparable bats, but Bay’s such a step up in the field it’s not even funny.
And he comes with 100% less traveling secretary-shoving, so that’s a plus.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay-Ellsbury-Drew
among the best OFs in the majors
by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I assume you mean defensively, in which I case I agree with you
Cause Tacoby’s been horrid offensively this season. Just god freaking awful. Not sure why it hasn’t gotten more press. .262/.328/.358 is the kind of line we could be getting from Julio Borbon next year if we wanted to. Heck, maybe even right now.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ellsbury-Crisp-Drew
was/is a little better I think
"Then you an idiot you dont expect lefties to with as much power against lefties" -blueballlefty to me
by BAC on Jul 31, 2008 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you mean defensively?
Or overall? No way ellsbury, crisp, drew is better overall than bay, ellbury, drew.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 31, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This trade doesn't make sense
unless Ethier or Kemp is in it….
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Jul 31, 2008 4:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
LaRoches on the corners
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jul 31, 2008 4:02 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
Hey, they’re better than Laynce and Jayson and Hank and Jake put together!
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
The worst part about the Nixes is how their parents choose to spell their freaking names. I hate “unique” spellings for common names.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
by TheBZA on Aug 1, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BoSox
This is just a give away deal…. gave up way too much for Jason Bay
by Hot Stuff on Jul 31, 2008 4:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
they upgraded their defense
with limited offensive change if both keep producing the same way.
by corbsclinton on Jul 31, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
moss and hansen
meh.
Bay >>> Ramirez from here on out. Both offensively and defensively.
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay has never
been in the heat of a pennant race and might wilt in Boston.
Manny’s greatest strength is the same as his biggest weakness, he doesn’t give a shit or worry too much about anything which is great in the post-season but not so much in the dog days.
IF the Dodgers make it to the post-season, look out!!!
(Full disclosure, I’m also a Dodgers fan)
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jul 31, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that only works somewhat offensively.
the fact that he doesn’t give a shit in the field is SO bad it’s not even funny. Bay won’t wilt, he’s Canadian. tough skin. bad teeth. it’s how they are.
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 31, 2008 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
theres an update
saying manny’s option years are taken away, and theres an agreement that he wont accept arbitration.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2008 4:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yea
so now the Dodgers also get the two first round picks. Definitely a solid move for them imo, puts them in the right spot to win their division.
by blalock84 on Jul 31, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 months of Manny + 2 first rounders
for LaRoche. I would do that if I was in a pennant race.
by corbsclinton on Jul 31, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just went on a sox blog they love the trade sox fans are the worst
by mai on Jul 31, 2008 4:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They came in 2nd place on this trade.
Pirates are the big winners, BoSox second, and Dodgers last.
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
diagree manny I think is going to be lights out the rest of the season so he can get back at the sox and get another big deal
by mai on Jul 31, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so by lights out
in that stadium, you mean…what, 3 HR, 10 RBI and a .288 average/.450 slg % in 150 at bats…?
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 31, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Dodgers Last?
They didn’t really lose anything…
by tyd3311 on Jul 31, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Logjam in the outfielders
Manny being a jerk, and now gets to play with fellow jerk Jeff Kent
Gave up two nice prospects for an aging rental
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barry Bonds
and Jeff Kent led a team to the 7th game of the World Series.
Being a jerk really isn’t a big deal if you can play.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jul 31, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that is true.
It will be interesting to watch. I’m just not crazy about it from LA’s position.
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They get
two 1st round picks…
And a very motivated Manny, knowing he will be a free agent for sure after the year…..
So i’ll have to disagree.
by tyd3311 on Jul 31, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Plus the fact that they just never seemed to believe in Laroche. Morris is rather… meh. Interesting arm, I guess. Serious injury concerns.
This gives them a premier slugger for the playoffs (if they make it), energizes their fan base for the remainder of the year and nets them two high draft picks after the season.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and they don't have to play Andruw Jones or Juan Pierre.
which has to be considered a plus…
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 31, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is a good trade for Boston
Not sure why BoSox fans wouldn’t love it.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
it was a salvage move by the sox. they come in tied for second in this deal with the Pirates.
Dodgers give very little away for a big bat to help their playoff run. forget the glut of outfielders. They can make do with what they have this season and sort it out in the offseason, plus 2 first rounders when manny leaves.
the pirates got very little in return for Bay. a jumbled mixed bag of prospects, with Laroche being the best of the bunch.
by 6th street on Jul 31, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why wouldn't they?
They ended up with the best player in the trade.
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boston did fine
Replaced Manny’s offense, improved their OF defense and got rid of someone that’s been a pain in the ass for a while (whatever that’s worth).
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jul 31, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
Bay’s by far the best player in the deal. Manny had to go at this point. Moss is a spare. Hansen is an interesting relief arm, but those are a dime a dozen.
If I’m a Boston fan I’m freaking ecstatic.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not me
I’d MUCH rather have Manny in the middle of my lineup during a pennant run and playoffs than Bay.
I understand Bay’s defensive value compared to Manny, I understand the contract situations and all that. But if I’m making out a lineup card for a game I have to win, and I have a choice of Manny vs. Bay, it would take me about zero point five seconds to get ManRam’s name at cleanup. He’s a much better hitter than Bay.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Jul 31, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could do that.
And it’d be fine for the next 3 months, but then what? Would you rather have Bay next year or another Crisp-like outfielder?
by brettgardner on Aug 1, 2008 7:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I am GM of the Boston Red Sox
at this point of the season, my highest priority is to win the World Series this year. I don’t think it should be a priority to set up next year’s OF, if the move in any way jeopardizes my chances to win a ring this year.
It’s the old trying to hit two targets simultaneously scenario. If Theo is able to win it all this year while also setting his team up for the future, then that is great he hit both of his targets. But I think that baseball teams do better trying to achieve goals by shooting at one target at a time. If Bay can’t replace Manny’s production in the middle of that lineup and the Sox come short of a championship, the move can be considered a failure.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 1, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boston is officially out of the postseason now, in my opinion
Bay is no Manny, and he’s moving to the harder league.
by chief on Jul 31, 2008 4:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think it seriously screws with their lineup
by corbsclinton on Jul 31, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreeance.
Manny is probably the greatest righthanded hitter I’ve seen …
ever?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jul 31, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
alex rodriguez
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or pujols.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or..
Rogers Hornsby
Josh Gibson
Jimmie Foxx
Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Joe Dimaggio
Alex Rodriguez (climbing season by season)
Vlad Guerrero
Albert Pujols
I rate all those guys over Manny. Seriously.
by 6th street on Jul 31, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, i cant say ive ever seen jimmie foxx and co play
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Jul 31, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and
i didnt even include
Honus Wagner
Mike Schmidt
Frank Robinson
Hank Greenberg
Cap Anson
Harmon Killebrew
Ed Delahanty
Nap Lajoie
Frank Thomas
Ive never seen any of these guys either, mostly highlights if at all. but you can compare stats and see that to say Manny is the best ever is clearly a little over the top. Ill say he’s clearly in the discussion for the top 15, which is still saying something.
by 6th street on Jul 31, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
you can make that argument. I was simply listing off the top of my head as many guys that could figure into a discussion of the top 10-15 RH hitters of all time. And in that scenario, Vlad certainly deserves consideration. As does Manny.
by 6th street on Jul 31, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rank Player (age) OPS Bats
1. Babe Ruth+* 1.1638 L
2. Ted Williams+* 1.1155 L
3. Lou Gehrig+* 1.0798 L
4. Barry Bonds* (43) 1.0512 L
5. Albert Pujols (28) 1.0434 R
6. Jimmie Foxx+ 1.0376 R
7. Hank Greenberg+ 1.0169 R
8. Rogers Hornsby+ 1.0103 R
9. Todd Helton* (34) 1.0023 L
10. Manny Ramirez (36) .9985 R
by chief on Jul 31, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
Manny Ramirez is good. And by good, I mean better than every other hitter in baseball from the past fifteen years not named Alex Rodriguez, Albert Pujols, or Barry Bonds.
Guys like Vlad Guerrero, Frank Thomas, and Juan Gonzalez in his prime are/were great and all, but they aren’t the same. Manny is a whole different class of player.
Appreciate Manny Ramirez, because he is one of the best hitters you will ever get to watch. People forget that because he’s goofy and he doesn’t try all the time. Its a shame – because if he actually cared he’d likely be described as one of the best ever. But who knows – his mental nonchalance may be important for his approach and success.
by JBImaknee on Jul 31, 2008 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're preaching to the choir
I love Manny
by chief on Jul 31, 2008 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd put Big Frank up there with Manny, though
Maybe even above him.
Frank’s peak was incredible.
In the 1994 strike shortened season he hit .353/.487/.729 with a 211 ops+ with 39hrs in 113 games.
That’s. Freaking. Ridiculous.
I think Frank and Manny both deserve to be in the best pure hitters of our generation discussion (with Bonds, ARod and Pujols).
Vladdy and Juangone are at least a tier below, imo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thomas had some monster years
and you’re right – few hitters have been as great as the first 7 or 8 years of his career. But he went from being dominant every year to being great some years and just good other years. Manny went from being very good in his mid-twenties to being completely dominant in his early thirties.
Oh well, both are certain HOFers and turned out better than Juan did. Sadly…
by JBImaknee on Jul 31, 2008 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah it can go either way between Frank and Manny, imo
Both were great. Frank had a better peak, imo, but Manny had a longer peak, if that makes any sense.
And, yah, it’s sad what happened to Juando.
He was my first real favorite player.
Still have two huge binders devoted to just Juan baseball cards that I still look through every once in a while just for nostalgia’s sake.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's definitely one of them
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Bay is a much better defender than Manny.
This is, at worst, a wash for Boston over the next 2 months.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Green Monster
But Manny knew how to play the ball soff the green monster realy well. Bay may help them on the road but at home it may take the rest of the year for him to learn the ins and out of playing balls off the wall.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Jul 31, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man...
I gotta disagree with you there.
Manny may have known the caroms off the wall, but I don’t see that knowledge being anywhere close to important enough to make up for his ridiculous lack of range, Carlos Lee-esque hustle, and his nigh ubiquitous mental gaffes.
I also don’t think learning the monster is that tough. Mastering it might be, but learning how to play it adequately has never seemed that tough based on how road team’s LF’ers seem to handle it against Boston.
Bay is a massive improvement over Manny defensively in every park in the league.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny
he’s not that bad a fielder. He’s just a lazy fielder (really, really lazy). There is a difference – but they affect their team’s success the same way. I think the advantage to Bay is not that he’s a better fielder, its that he actually cares about catching the ball.
by JBImaknee on Jul 31, 2008 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he's not a bad fielder
he just fields badly?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's a good way to put it
This isn’t a plus for Manny – heck its probably a bigger negative. Pretty demoralizing to your pitcher when you see a lazy fly fall because your $20 million outfielder chose not to run to the ball. But there is a distinction because when Manny tries, he’s actually a decent fielder. Watch him in the playoffs over the years – he’s not bad out there
by JBImaknee on Jul 31, 2008 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah he's no Manny
He’s better.
And the harder league thing was probably a joke, right?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you guys don’t think Bay will fit in well with Boston?? I’ve watched him play a good bit and he seems to be a consistent hitter with a good bit of power that will translate nicely to Boston and the Green Monster. I think people underestimate how much Manny was hurting that clubhouse
by LongviewLegend315 on Jul 31, 2008 4:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The point is to win
more games and get into the post season. Manny raking behind Papi propelled them. Bay is a helluva player but you dont think they are going to pitch around Ortiz now? What if Ortiz is hurt again….Nothing in the middle…
by corbsclinton on Jul 31, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they pitch around Ortiz...
So what? I’d guess the BoSox would be perfectly happy with their opposition intentionally walking Ortiz every time he came up, and pitching to Bay instead.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are taking something
that has worked for years and assuming that plugging in Bay you will get the same result? No way. It goes back to the protection in the lineup debate with MY and Hamilton in the preseason. Lineups change results depennding on the order. Take Many out from behind Ortiz and 1 of 2 things is are going to happen: something good or something bad. I think its an easy call that lineup isnt as good.
by corbsclinton on Jul 31, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Protection in the lineup
I think that’s crap, personally.
Bay’s been putting up huge numbers with zero protection, for example.
If anything, you’d assume he’ll do better in Boston because he has protection now.
And I just don’t see how you assume the “easy call” is that replacing Manny with a guy who has been as good a hitter as he has 3 of the last 4 years is that the lineup will get worse.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we will see I guess
It may not be an easy call, you are right. But, lets say they make it to the WS game 7 and bottom of the 9th you’ve got 345 hitters from Boston up. You’d rather have Bay up than Manny? Oh yeah, I almost forgot, you want the guy with the higher average up right?
by corbsclinton on Jul 31, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Theo pulled a freaken rabit out of hat here
He had no leverage, a crappy trade market and a collapsing deadline and he pulled off a rare three team deal.
I can’t say I really blame any of the teams. This is a good deal for all involved.
Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."
by LBBRangerFan on Jul 31, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say Manny
is plenty enough leverage. he made a good move because he had to, but wouldn’t have otherwise. ended up on the long end of things.
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 31, 2008 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
do you know how to type your comment in the comment box, rather than in the subject line box? seriously.
by 6th street on Jul 31, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets see
Is Boston with Bay better than Boston with a disgruntled Manny?
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on Jul 31, 2008 4:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think they are no worse
And they have a good LF’er on a reasonable contract for 2 more years, and gave up two guys who will never be as good as Bay.
by Adam J. Morris on Jul 31, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good trade for all parties except
for manny’s crappy fielding. LA has a big outfield. That may bite them.
"I am not a never-nude" - Tobias Fünke
by jcAustin on Jul 31, 2008 4:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Worst OF defense...
White Sox or Dodgers?
by tyd3311 on Jul 31, 2008 4:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If Griffey
is in CF and Dye in RF – that has to be the worst defensive outfield in recent history. I still refuse to believe that the White Sox are that stupid though.
by Randy Richardson on Jul 31, 2008 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just got kicked out of a redsox blog I guess they didnt like what I thought of the trade this year and the gagne trade last year
by mai on Jul 31, 2008 4:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Which blog?
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why you don't like this trade for Boston
Are you just a troll, or do you really think Manny >>> Bay?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Jul 31, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Troll with limited baseball knowledge
A dangerous, albeit hilarious, combination.
by LiamP on Jul 31, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mai
You’re an idiot. You better watch out, those Red Sox fans just might hunt you down and kick your ass.
by TexasHeater on Jul 31, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then refer to him by his real name
for he is THE KLAW
by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too
he’s not shy about returning emails. even will converse through multiple emails on occasion.
by 6th street on Jul 31, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keith Law
big fan of Latin Newspapers.
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just not Latin Players
I still can’t believe he questioned Max Ramirez’s approach at the plate
by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This sucks
Ron Artest should be a Mav not a Rocket.
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
are you kidding me?
did you read the shit he said about Yao, and about him still being ghetto and that he never changed? that guy’s a ticking timebomb, and a poor excuse for a missing piece to a championship contender. glad we passed, time to move on…
now, if you wanna talk Francisco Garcia, or Josh Smith, I’m all ears.
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 31, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you watch his interview on PTI?
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Jul 31, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I fucking hate that guy.
cancer. BIG time cancer. does he have skills? yes. but are we even talking about a T.O. type cancer, or even a PACMAN type cancer? no. there is NO hope for him. he thinks what he did is fine, and he’d do it again if “he was disrespected like that again.”
what a douchebag.
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Jul 31, 2008 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny
The guy’s 36, his slugging % has slipped 100 and 60 points over the last two years compared to his career average. Even if Manny was happy in Boston and they picked up his 2009 option, I could see this deal really working out for the Sox this year and next.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jul 31, 2008 4:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the dodgers
can petition MLB to play all 5 OFs they have at the same time. THat’s the only way they’ll field an acceptable defense for the rest of the year
by FirebatM3 on Jul 31, 2008 4:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Surprise surprise
Olney and Kurkijan pick Boston and NYY as the biggest winners.
Although Phillips (who thinks Rich Harden’s problem is that he strikes out too many guys) did just say Boston was the biggest loser.
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 4:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Boston and NYY
of course, because look at the three teams in baseball – the Yankees, the Red Sox, Cubs and the Mets. The Mets and Cubs didn’t do anything this week and the other two did. So it is only logical that Boston and the Yanks are the big winners.
My real list is as follows:
Winners:
1> Anaheim – both by adding Tex and because Tampa sat still and Boston lost Manny
2> New York – by getting a decent catcher and watching Boston go downhill and Tampa stay the same
3> LA Dodgers – Manny puts them over the top in a bad, bad division. Add that Arizona failed to get Teixeira,
Losers:
1> Florida – they stepped up to the plate as if they were going to make a run, and in the end just got a crappy reliever for a good prospect. Arthur Rhodes does not a playoff team make. FAIL.
2> Boston – Yeah, Bay is really good. But he’s not Manny, who they need in the playoffs. You don’t go from Manny Ramirez to Jason Bay and say that you win unless you are really overvaluing defense.
3> Texas – JD didn’t make moves because the right moves weren’t there. And I’m fine with that. But the Rangers aren’t winning this year and the demand for many of our expendable pieces had appeared high. It would have been nice had things broken differently.
by JBImaknee on Jul 31, 2008 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats funny
He said the Met’s were the big loser earlier.
by tyd3311 on Jul 31, 2008 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did I hear right?
Did Kenny Williams just say that center field is the easiest position to play in the outfield?
Because if he did, he is just wrong. And that’s not a matter of opinion.
"But the point is, [Jeff] Mathis is a bush-league uber douche." -lonestarJon
by ghtd36 on Jul 31, 2008 5:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he probably
just got caught up in hearing the sound of his own voice and forgot what actual words he was saying. its a common occurrent over on the south side…
by 6th street on Jul 31, 2008 5:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just realized this
Joe Torre will be managing Manny Ramirez. That just seems weird. Torre seems like a hands-off manager, so I don’t think it will be a problem. I would be surprised to see Torre chewing him out for not running out a ground ball.
It's baseball. You don't always get what you want, and you don't always want what you get. --Ed Coffin
by txranger7 on Jul 31, 2008 5:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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