LSB Community Prospect Project: Mid-Season #22
by brentash on Aug 1, 2008 2:01 PM CDT
49 comments
After 276 votes, Marcus Lemon has won the right to be called the LSB Community #21 prospect!
The list so far:
1. 1b, Chris Davis
2. RHP, Neftali Feliz
3. RHP, Eric Hurley
4. SS, Elvis Andrus
5. C, Maximiliano Ramirez
6. 1b, Justin Smoak
7. RHP, Michael Main
8. RHP, Blake "C-Wun" Beavan
9. C, Taylor Teagarden
10. LHP Kasey Kiker
11. OF, Engel Beltre
12. LHP, Matt Harrison
13. OF, Julio Borbon
14. LHP, Derek Holland
15. RHP, Tommy Hunter
16. RHP, Wilmer Font
17. RHP, Neil Ramirez
18. LHP, Martin Perez
19. OF, John Mayberry, Jr.
20. RHP, Thomas Diamond
21. SS, Marcus Lemon
The polls are open, so go ahead and vote in the poll at the bottom and feel free to make any suggestions and/or criticisms in the comments below.
And please don't hesitate to tell me you want on the list for next time.
NOTE: There has been some speculation as to what the criteria are for this vote. Should guys who are currently in the bigs be involved in "prospect" discussions? For the sake of this exercise we're taking what the guys have done in the big leagues and using the BA prospect formula of 130 AB's or 50 ip. If a guy is under those limits, he's still a prospect right now, so he goes on the list. It's that simple.
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I put this up
because it had been 3 days and it was about time.The last one had been bumped off. I don’t know why thedirkatron hasn’t done it yet, so I thought I would just go ahead and do it. Everything is still the same except I added Joseph Ortiz and Clark Murphy.
by brentash on Aug 1, 2008 2:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
weird.
I voted Madrigal for the last round. Went another direction with Duran this one.
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Aug 1, 2008 2:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
German
To the house! winning with 50% of 4 votes, call it now!
by bushe on Aug 1, 2008 2:06 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Joseph Ortiz and Clark Murphy
Ortiz is a 17 year old at Cliinton who has pitched well.
Murphy is the 5th round pick who just signed and is off to a good start in Arizona.
by brentash on Aug 1, 2008 2:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jose Vallejo
Been voting for him for a little while now… He’s got all the skills, still 21 and at AA
by blalock84 on Aug 1, 2008 2:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
is he flat-out better than Duran?
is that just a given now? so sad what a limited shot at the majors and injury, skipping AAA, will do to your prospect status these days…
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Aug 1, 2008 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its just one of those things
He has shown that he really isn’t ready for the Majors and needs the development time at AAA, but then gets hurt and doesn’t get a chance to get that development in. Add in that most see him as a future utility guy anyways and you’ll have a guy like Vallejo top him.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Aug 2, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no reason why Duran's
celing should be limited to that of a utility player. He has been groomed as one starting in winter ball because there is no room for him to start here, but he could become a starting second baseman on a team that needed one. The #s he put up at AA last year are more impressive than what Lemon and Vallejo have done this year.
by Goyogringo on Aug 2, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
see that's what I was thinking.
that three things have affected him, otherwise I would have to think he’d be top 10 if we didn’t need pitching that much, or top 15 otherwise:
1) our decision to move him to Utility role based on our personal needs, seeing as how Kinsler and Young have his two positions nailed down, and Hank supposedly had 3B nailed down
2) his limited opportunities in the majors resulting in poor stats
3) his injury
"No, Donny, these men are nihilists, there's nothing to be afraid of."
by Walter Sobchak on Aug 2, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His numbers last season
came at the age of 22 (turned 23 that August). Vallejo won’t be 22 until the middle of September while Lemon is only 20 and is being blocked in AA by Andrus. Lemon’s age plus amazing plate discipline and rising power help him out a lot even though his defense isn’t very highly touted. Vallejo’s amazing defense at 2nd, his amazing speed, and his surprsing power he has shown this season are why I think he is a better prospect than Duran. With Duran, his defense at 2nd or shortstop isn’t as great as Vallejo’s where you have to move people around for him. He doesn’t have the same type of speed as Vallejo where he can just make amazing things happen (37 SBs to only 4 CS on the season and 47-3 last year). And he doesn’t have the advanced plate discipline that Lemon has shown in high A this year despite just turning 20 in June. Again, if he was able to dominate AAA for the remainder of the season, I’d rethink putting him behind Vallejo and Lemon on my personal rankings. Since that isn’t going to be happening, I can’t put him ahead of Vallejo and Lemon right now.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Aug 2, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
another few guys to consider adding...
Joe Wieland, Michael Kirkman
by blalock84 on Aug 1, 2008 2:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
R. Ross
I went with him. Estimated to be a 1st round pick, I think it’s time for him to make the list.
by Coolbean04 on Aug 1, 2008 2:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Voted Madrigal.
Then Vallejo. After that I will start my campaign to recognize the rising greatness of Kennil Gomez. You will all come under my sway.
by Hull Fan on Aug 1, 2008 2:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Read What Others are Saying About Cristian Santana
"It could be argued that (Cristian) Santana has the highest offensive ceiling of any catching prospect in the (Texas Rangers) organization." – Jason Cole, Scout.com
"His (Santana’s) power is still there and it is obvious when watching him. Since Justin Smoak has yet to sign and Chris Davis has graduated to the Majors, I’d say that Cristian Santana currently has the most raw power in the Rangers’ minor league system. If he puts it together, I think he could absolutely be a 30 home run guy in the Majors…" – Cole
"(Cristian Santana is) A physical specimen, gifted athlete, pure hitter with power, hard worker and a leader." – Mike Hindman, Dallas Morning News Texas Rangers Blog
"Santana has perhaps the highest ceiling of any catching prospect in the system…If Taylor Teagarden is the benchmark for Rangers catching prospects, Santana can’t be far behind… (Santana was) named Baseball America’s top Arizona Rookie League catching prospect… Santana, who is listed at 6-0 and 175 pounds, might have the body to adapt to a corner infield or outfield spot." – Evan Grant, Dallas Morning News
"There is no question about Santana’s offensive potential. Rangers Minor League hitting coordinator Mike Boulanger said before the season (2008) that he expects Santana… to eventually hit for more power than Frisco catcher (Max) Ramirez…" – Jamey Newberg, contributor to mlb.com and creator of NewbergReport.com
"No Meh… He’s (Santana) the last guy on the board with a chance to be an All-Star other than as a relief pitcher." – YourNameHere, Lone Star Ball’s "Resident Expert" (See note below)
Note: Title bestowed by a LSB poster who, in his desire for anonymity, wishes to be referred to only as YNH.
by YourNameHere on Aug 1, 2008 2:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Santana
I don’t doubt that he is a gifted athlete, a physical specimen and a hard worker, but I have some serious doubts about “pure hitter.” A 36% K-rate and 5% walk rate don’t suggest that. And it doesn’t seem that he’s getting better as the season has gone along. In July his K rate went down just slightly (34%) and his walk rate went down as well (3%). I know that he is really young and has plenty of time to improve, but I have a hard time putting a lot of stock in a guy that is that far away, doesn’t really have a position and is struggling so hard to make contact.
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 1, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More on Santana
” If he can straighten out his throwing, he has the ability to be a special catcher in the big leagues, and enough offensive potential that he could still be an impact player at another position.” BA prospect handbook
I think his stats profile is so bizarre this year that it would be hard to project him on his perf. this year alone. He hit .300 with lots of power for his first month, then like .150 with a horrendous SO ration for the second month, then was DL’d. He hit .300 in spokane last year so hopefully we can chalk this season up to an “off-year” and keep in mind that he was 18 when the season started.
The one thing I do not understand is why he has been moved to LF unless the rangers’s have decided to give him a year off from catching to help his arm recover even if throwing balls from LF to the INF and home plate seems to be more not less strenuous on the shoulder. Maybe this is a permanent move?
by Goyogringo on Aug 1, 2008 7:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Santana's development plan
I forget who reported it, but someone in the Rangers organization stated that they wanted to get Santana 400 at-bats this year and that they felt that playing him in the outfield and as the DH was the best way to do that. I would not be surprised to see Santana back in Clinton next year as the primary catcher.
by spurdynasty on Aug 1, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
a platoon or backup role seems to make the most sense, instead of not playing the position at all, but, like you, I’m sure we’ll see him as a catcher in Clinton next yr
by Goyogringo on Aug 1, 2008 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dirk has been busy
There a Clint Eastwood film festival this week.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 1, 2008 2:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Where a Clinton Eastwood film festival this week?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 1, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha.
I’ve been a fat-fingering dullard lately.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 2, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Madrigal for me...
Santana and Vallejo probably next.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 1, 2008 3:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well I had figured it was about time to be done for the mid-season list
and was gonna post a wrap-up edition tonight since it’s August and all and the off season list is only 3 or 4 months away now.
But whatever.
Whoever Brentash is please edit the diary and add the “LSB Community Prospect” tag so they’re easy to go back through and check up on.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 1, 2008 3:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wondered
if maybe you just stopped once you got Lemon on. Yeah 21 is a funny place to stop at.
by brentash on Aug 1, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
No, not even I like Lil’ Lemon that much.
I basically wanted to stop at 20 cause it had been going on so darn long, but since #20 got so many comments and had a lot of good debate, I decided to go on.
When #21 struggled to reach 40 comments I figured it was a good time to end it. Don’t want interest to wane too much or then it just gets tedious.
I was thinking of doing personal “next tens” and then calculating the votes that way or something.
It’s just been going on so long as to make the first part of the list seem completely separate from the last part. But I guess that’s the nature of doing these things.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 1, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See
i think the reason that the comments waned was more a product of the trade deadline than disinterest.
"There is nothing wrong with a good baseball argument, even if it gets a little personal now and then. If someone here get[s] their feelings hurt because of a blog post they really need to get a grip."
t ball
by booyahcaveman on Aug 1, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur...
I still see a lot of guys on the list that are interesting names.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 1, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting names worth discussing
The great thing about the LSB prospect project is that it ensures quality information transfer about the more interesting players in the Rangers system. I have a much better understanding and appreciation for the 21 guys that have made the list than I did a month ago due to the discussions that have occurred in each round. The comments above from YourNameHere on Christian Santana are worth the price of admission.
I am excited to hear what others know and think about:
Wilfredo Boscan – 2.52 ERA, >9K/9IP, 1.04 WHIP
Kyle O’Campo – 3.81 ERA, 9K/9IP, 1.15 WHIP
Renny Osuna – 361/426/480/906
Mitch Moreland – 309/390/522/912
Robbie Ross – Low 90’s fastball, two good secondary pitches
Tim Murphy – 2.28 ERA, 10.3 K/9IP,
Ian Gac – 304/393/562/954
Kennil Gomez – 2.97 ERA, 1.1 WHIP, >7K/9IP
One or more of these guys could be next year’s Derek Holland or Tommy Hunter.
by spurdynasty on Aug 1, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like all those guys
but Gac ain’t no prospect…he’ll be hitting 240 by 9/1…
by Goyogringo on Aug 1, 2008 11:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe we can do an honorable mention thread
after 25 to detail those left out but deserving and why we like them
by Goyogringo on Aug 1, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
our 26-50
I wonder if the Mets, Giants, or Bluejays would take our 26-50 over their own top 25!
by Goyogringo on Aug 1, 2008 11:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants?
How’d they get in there?
Villalona, Posey, Bumgarner and Alderson alone make that system nice and super freaking sweet.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 2, 2008 3:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I was looking at another stat -
systems with prospects farthest from the majors. I should have said, ChiSox, Tigers, Astros ( lowest ranked systems per BA) and of course that comment was strickly tongue-n-cheek to be sure. But what a nice second 25 we have. It is interesting to look at who was in the top 30 (per BA) to start the 07 season to see just how much the sytem has progressed: Botts, Guzman, Littleton, Rasner, Haigwood, Cruceta, Webster, Ingram, Schlact, Whittleman, Tracy, Arias, Ben Harrison, Mathis, Herrera, Lemon, Rupe, Massett, Mayberry…
by Goyogringo on Aug 2, 2008 6:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say we go to 25
Its just a nice number to stop on. 21 is kinda weird. But lets get it done quickly.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Aug 1, 2008 3:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Aug 1, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ethan Martin
Torn meniscus – There but for the grace of Ed Wade go us.
by shroomer on Aug 1, 2008 4:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It sucks
although he’ll be on the field about as soon as our pick will be.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 2, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's get behind Robbie Ross
He will be a stud…some day…maybe
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 1, 2008 9:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I say we go to 50.
The last 6-7 spots might be really weak but to do a top 50 is nice.
Especially when we do the list next year and we can hopefully see guys ranked 42 make it to around 21 or something.
by Coolbean04 on Aug 2, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
50?
geez at this rate that will take until December
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Aug 2, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thirty is a good number.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 2, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Middle ground of about 40
would be cool to see. There are something like 20 guys currently up for voting with some more guys being up for voting. And right now, there are a lot of close calls between guys. So 40 would be my vote for how many to do. Plus, like was said, its cool to be able to check out guys that have made major leaps from year to year such as guys like Vallejo.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Aug 2, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Engel Beltre
At the Cedar Rapids homepage they have some highlights of the Clinton game last night. A few of the clips show Beltre fielding his position in CF. Kinda gives you an idea about his smoove and his glide. Let the page load for a minute then double click on the video to make it start. LINK
by shroomer on Aug 2, 2008 1:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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