Wednesday a.m. stuff
I wish I had something meaningful and profound to offer after last night's fiasco. But I don't. I don't know what there is to say after something like that.
Marlon Byrd sounds frustrated:
"I just don't know how many times you can do this," acknowledged outfielder Marlon Byrd, who went 5-for-5 and reached on an error in his sixth at-bat. "To be 10 runs down, to come back to take the lead and then to lose, it's just too mentally and physically draining. It gets old."
Hank Blalock is looking at going on a rehab assignment with Frisco this weekend, and if things go well, he could be activated on Monday.
Vicente Padilla is not going to be able to make his start on Thursday, but should be able to pitch Sunday. Kevin Millwood, meanwhile, looks like he'll be activated to start on Friday.
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155 comments
Comments
Draft pick compensation
the Rangers have suddenly gone to a record where they may be in the 15 worst in the league – which means our #1 pick next year is safe if JD signs someone big. Kind of a silver lining in this cloud of suckiness.
That said, I still would like to see the Rangers in 2nd place with a winning record this season.
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Honestly, I hope teams like Detroit and Toronto pass us before its all said and done
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Aug 13, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That will assuage the pain
if Oakland gets a top rotation starter with their #1 pick in what is arguably a better draft next year. Hopefully we won’t regret our decision not to sell low during the trading deadline and pick up that top rotation guy via trade during the off-season.
by Goyogringo on Aug 13, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in other news
Hank Blalock is looking at going on a rehab assignment with Frisco this weekend, and if things go well, he could be activated on Monday
and if things go as expected, he should be back on the DL by Friday.
I'm sure the Russians felt there were WMD's in Georgia, and that it was a hotbed of terrorism.
by DJCahill on Aug 13, 2008 10:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When he leaves
the Rangers should retire his DL spot. Either Jeff Zimmerman or Justin Thompson gets the 60 day DL spot.
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be comic.
A “DL” in the Rangers HOF with Hank’s picture. Not sure about painting a DL on the OF wall, though.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Aug 13, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guuuuh
People should have tried watching that game with their signficant other that happens to be a huge Red Sox fan. She was in a good mood early, then pissed off, then we went to bed without speaking.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Aug 13, 2008 10:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That is what you get
for dating a Red Sox fan.
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is absolutetly 100% true
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 13, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YEP
He’s lucky he didn’t wake up the new John Bobbitt!
I've never seen a pitcher with "bone spur" issues throw 96 mph. The only spurs I'm aware of are the spurs that Wash has buried in C J's ass as he rides him. I love ya C J but welcome to Wash's DOGHOUSE.
.
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 13, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel your pain
The pissed-off-going-to-bed-without-speaking thing, not the Bobbitt thing.
by Fooster7 on Aug 13, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice clarification!
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 13, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's OK
Not everyday you meet a girl that likes sports as much as you do (even a tad obsessive), cooks a mean everything and anything, plays a decent round of golf and looks damn good doing it all.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Aug 13, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
word
ill take that over a rangers fan.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 13, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Rangers fan
means that she’ll stick with you year in, year out, even though you are a constant failure.
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and a boston fan wont?
my family in boston waited and have been avid boston fans since they came into existence and my granddad was born in 1920 and never watched them win a series before he died.
yes new boston fans (post WS) who dont remember the losing suck ass. they are likely just yankees fans in a new suit. But the dedication of the long-term boston fans through all their years, that’s something that makes Rangers fans look like young pups still on the nipple when it comes to dedication to not winning.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 13, 2008 1:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least....
The Red Sox had some success in the post season. They have been to the WS a few times and made it to the ALCS a few more. The Rangers have ONE post season win.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Aug 13, 2008 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 13, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
I’ve got tickets to Friday’s game. I’d rather see anyone in the organization pitch but Millwood. I’d much rather watch a kid with a potential for a future get shelled than watch a formerly front-of-the-rotation pitcher throw like a struggling #5.
And Hank needs to hurry up and get back on the field. I’m so sick of watching Vaz butcher balls at third base I could kick something.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 10:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Rotation in tatters
I hope the team doesn’t go into the same kind of funk Oakland has been in the past few weeks. I think Oakland has won like 4 of its last 24 games, perhaps responding to Beane’s trades with a sense of hopelessness. I fear the offense may respond similarly to the state of the pitching staff.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Aug 13, 2008 10:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopelessness
Is that the definition of Rangers Pitching?
by Bigfan16 on Aug 13, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could you blame them if they do though?
17 runs, coming back from 10 down, and you lose. It can’t get any more hopeless than that.
by AirJordan on Aug 13, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the sad thing is
we had our most consistent pitcher out there. Feldman let us down, and from what I saw, so did the defense. So if those bats are upset, they were the ones making errors out there, too.
Frankie Fran – that was just a mis-step. He’s been solid all year long.
"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "
by Walter Sobchak on Aug 13, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
On another note
Byrd’s OPS+ is now 128. Damn impressive.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 13, 2008 10:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
He's due to go
0-20.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Aug 13, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A bunch of people around here...
Are due to admit they were wrong.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Aug 13, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i never...
publicly posted that i had my doubts about him. But i will publicly post that i privately had my doubts about him. He’s been a nice surprise recently.
by chase182 on Aug 13, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont confuse the result with the decision!
if i predicted ramon vazquez would have a sub 700 ops this year, I’d be wrong but it wouldnt be a bad prediction.
i certainly recognize hes having a great run, but don’t think it was wrong to bash on him a bit when he was hitting 240 somesuch.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Aug 13, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was wrong!
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 13, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wish we had traded him still.
plain and simple…too bad we couldnt hae gotten gallagheror marshall or ceda for him
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
jose ceda
between hiA and AA
3-3
4.22 era (2.92 at AA)
33 games (18 at AA)
79 IP (24 at AA)
63 hits alowed (22 at AA)
37 runs allowed (8 at AA)
6 HR allowed (2 at AA)
40 bb/84 k (12:31 at AA)
9.57 k/9 (11.31 at AA)
4.56 bb/9 (4.38 at AA)
.220 BAA
1.30 whip
was moved from a starter (12 starts in 15 games) at HiA to a reliever (0 starts in 18 games) at AA
from: http://www.cobrabrigade.com/2008/02/who_is_jose_ceda.php
The 21-year-old Ceda is 9-4 with a 2.60 earned-run average over three minor-league seasons and has limited opposing hitters to a .157 average in 156 innings. He enters 2008 with an incredible streak of 23 1/3 consecutive hitless innings over his final 15 appearances with Ryne Sandberg’s Peoria Chiefs, dating back to July 19. Left-handers can’t touch him, batting a combined .065 against Ceda in ‘07.
interview with scout.com: http://cubs.scout.com/2/759075.html
Q: You’re near the top of the team in strikeouts (40). Is that something you focus on when you pitch or is it something that comes naturally?A: Yeah, it’s really not that big of a deal. I’m not focused on that.
-
Q: What pitches are you working on right now?
A: I’ve been working a lot on my changeup, but mostly on my fastball location. I get in a lot of trouble with that, so I’m trying to work on getting consistent in my location
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what annoyed me the most
was Josh Lewin’s comment in the bottom of the ninth.
Said something like “If i told you we’d have the tying run batting after being down 10, I think you’d have to feel prettyt good about it”.
That’s the kind of mediocre optimism that pisses me off. I like Josh Lewin. He may not be great but he can be fun. But sometimes he really drops some redundant and/or stupid comments.
by chrisR on Aug 13, 2008 10:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
so what?
out of everything last night that ‘annoyed you the most”?
Geez. Everyone is reaching today.
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I should clarify
that was the only inning I watched.
by chrisR on Aug 13, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh.
I was a little more miffed at Tom’s apologizing for Frankie and saying he gave it everything he had. After giving up 4 runs in an inning because you got shelled and walked a pinch hitter in 4 pitches, I don’t really want to hear the smarter baseball guy in the booth telling me I shouldn’t be mad because the pitcher tried real hard.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lewin is a tool
I know he’s paid by the franchise to be a cheerleader behind the mic, but he beats me to high holy hell.
Take a drink every time that douche reminds us that Kinsler, Bradley, Young, or Hamilton made the all-star team. You will be drunk by the 4th inning. Yes, it’s worth a mention now and then. But, it doesn’t need to be mentioned every time the Rangers take their turn at the plate.
by Hard8 on Aug 13, 2008 5:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understatement of the year?
“It’s pretty embarrassing actually,” Feldman said. “We know we’re never out of a game, and our comeback tonight tells me a lot about our team, but it also tells me that I’ve got to do a lot better job.”
You need to be a lot better, Scott? Really?
All season long we’ve watched pitchers who can’t throw first pitch strikes; pitchers that walk runs in; pitchers that walk the worst batters on an opposing team’s roster; pitchers that couldn’t get a clutch strikeout if their lives depended on it; pitchers that make mental mistakes and commit errors—it has just been ridiculous. We have so many pitchers on the damned DL that you have to wonder if there is something fundamentally wrong with what our young guys are being taught. It reminds me of the Tom House days where every other pitcher ended up with a torn rotator cuff.
It is absolutely disgusting that our “best” pitcher has a 4.85 ERA and allows 1.5 baserunners per inning while only striking out 6 per 9 innings. This team needs to re-think its entire pitching philosophy, because whatever they’ve been doing the last few years is absolutely ruining every poor sap that we run out to the mound.
It’s really sad when you think that if we just had an average staff, we’d probably be 15+ games over .500 and giving the Angels a legitimate challenge for the division.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 10:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"This team needs to re-think its entire pitching philosophy"
huh? What would you have wanted JD and Co. to do? Not sign Millwood? Not trade for Padilla? Look into the future to see that certain pitchers would be injured when that pitcher has never had injury problems?
This new regime has drafted and traded for some great young pitchers….we can’t judge their ‘philosophy’ until those guys make the majors and we see what they have…
This is how this team will get into more trouble, keep trying to change shit and not staying on course with one central idea…
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So the general sucktitude of the veterans and inability ...
of pitchers at all levels to stay healthy isn’t potentially indicative of a flawed pitching philosophy? You’re absolutely certain of that? I haven’t done any research, but it seems like this team has a history of mediocre performances by free agent pitchers we sign and a penchant for destroying promising young arms that doesn’t seem to be a problem with the vast majority of the rest of the league. I could be wrong about that and we could just be cursed, but the results we’ve seen over the past couple of years have to give you cause for concern. About the dumbest thing anyone can do is keep riding techniques that have failed over and over again believing that the result is going to miraculously change at some point.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a flawed pitching philosophy
I don’t know how anyone can really argue anything otherwise. The following indications are
1. Free agent signings are either mediocre or bad, rarely good. Some signings go bad – but there should be an equal number of over-performs to balance those out. Generally, the Rangers have not seen that. Gagne and Eddie Guardado are the only pluses, and they merely did what they were paid to do. The list of failed signings is too long to recite now (and yes, it includes Millwood)
2. Young pitchers flounder when they get up to the majors. There appears to be a drop in ability from AA and AAA to Arlington. I don’t buy the rushing argument, as other teams’ push their pitchers as quickly. The recent trend of guys going elsewhere and dominating (Danks, Volquez) or exceeding expectations (i.e., Gallaragga) suggests that it isn’t eying talent that is a problem, but that final step in development.
3. Injuries are rampant, possibly contributing to #1 and #2. Yes, injuries happen. No, they don’t happen this often. Something is very, very wrong about the way this team has been conditioned, and in my opinion, the #1 reason that Connor had to go. 17 or so starting pitchers because they aren’t effective is bad enough. 17 or so because they keep getting injured means that you’re screwed no matter how good your guys are.
The result of #1, #2, and #3 is that as a team the Rangers have had to use a lot of filler guys and young guys who should be nowhere near the big leagues yet (Harrison, Hunter). The biggest problem with that is that this problem perpetuates itself – sign old guys who should be healthy, they get injured, the young guys come up, get injured, so you rush other young guys up or sign crappy old guys, etc. They’ve been doing this for years now.
Longhorn is wrong – pitching philosophy isn’t only about drafting guys. And the Rangers have shown that they can’t really do anything else.
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what?
that philosophy has been implemented in the minors and is a work in progress….you can’t implement a philosophy and everything change the next that, that’s stupid.
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My argument
which I didn’t really lay out that clearly, was that the draft philosophy appears sound. I agree with you that they should stick with it. Their lower minors development appears quite strong, and I’m not advocating changing any of that.
But there is something very wrong with their top level structure, which is the other half of having a strong pitching organization. Guys get injured at unreasonably high rates – why? The team has a lower-than-expected success rate in acquiring major league talent – why? The team has yet to succeed at taking a good arm and transitioning it to the majors, yet we’ve seen them succeed elsewhere – why?
I’m not saying to start throwing footballs. Or to boost innings in the minors. But I am saying that something is wrong in Arlington. The draft and development guys are giving them good arms – but I have seen no evidence that anyone at the top knows what to do with them…
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Top half of minors
I think what’s wrong is that they have not had nearly enough pitching prospects to begin with, so the attrition of injuries and performance makes it seem like they can’t develop pitchers. That may be true in some way, but I think it’s hard to judge based on the level and number of pitching prospects that have some through the system in recent years combined with the changes of leadership/philosophy in that time.
If nothing comes out of this bunch they have now, there will be no question there is a problem.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Aug 13, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
problem is lack of talent
which is a product of previous phil of the org. We’ll see if they trade for the guys they need during the winter as our system will be really balanced by 4/1/0/9 even after we deal some top prospects…
by Goyogringo on Aug 13, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brandon McCarthey my be the prime example of the pitching problems in Arlington
A couple of days ago, somebody posted pics of BMac pitching in Chicago and Arlington, and it would seem that his injury problems can be attributed to Connor’s tinker with his pitching mechanics. And I just wonder if that has been the majority of the problem, with transitioning prospects from AAA to MLB? I guess only time will tell. It justs seems ironic that it has happened to just about every prospect that has been called up and pitched under Connors/Chiti for more than 10 days.
by awillis111 on Aug 13, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re:
The draft and development guys are giving them good arms – but I have seen no evidence that anyone at the top knows what to do with them…
Pre JD, like who??
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate reciting the list
But I will:
Chris Young – acquired as a prospect, developed, brought to Texas, traded. done very well
Edinson Volquez – developed as a star prospect, brought to Texas, struggled, sent back through system, traded and has done very well.
John Danks – drafted, developed as star prospect, traded after AA, has done very well
Armando Gallaragga – acquired as prospect, couple of hit or miss years, brought to Texas, struggled, traded and has done pretty well.
The argument with these guys isn’t as much a failing of last stage development (other than Volquez), but a failure to know what they had before they let it go.
Other guys:
BMac – obviously has had injury issues
CJ Wilson – drafted and developed as a good prospect, solid if not great bullpen arm, forced into closer role, future in doubt.
Wes Littleton – I don’t know what the Rangers have been doing with him
Frank Francisco – he has never materialized to what he should be with his stuff
Robinson Tejeda – should have been a much better pitcher, but he never could quite find his groove – each good start was followed by several awful ones
I’m not including Kason Gabbard, who had injury problems before…
Old guys:
Mistakes have been made in understanding the status of a lot of the older Ranger players. Aki Otsuka should have been traded while he still had value, considering his age and mechanics. Eaton never should have been traded for (goes without saying). The Padilla contract was foolish. Relying on Jennings was a poor decision.
Now, not all of these are guys who in other people’s hands would have turned out differently – but that is a long list of pitching disappointments that has plagued JD’s administration. That’s a combination of a lot of bad luck, bad management decisions, and bad coaching. Failure is part of baseball, but for this team to never hit a winner from those guys listed above is statistically very improbable. People have screwed up…
I’m not a JD hater – I like him a lot for his ability to build up the farm system. But to say that there is nothing wrong with the pitching in Arlington that JD’s draft strategy won’t fix is wrong.
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only ones we drafted and developed
are Danks and Volquez. And we used that to get Bmac and Josh. What’s wrong with that? Bmac trade was widely praised as a slam dunk win for us. I don’t know how we can reasonable say we (the rangers) caused him to get hurt.
Aki Otsuka should have been traded while he still had value, considering his age and mechanics
How do you know JD didn’t try and just didn’t like what was offered? You want to trade him for a A arm with no potential?
Eaton never should have been traded for
I don’t think Josh Lewin is Mr. Redudant.
. The Padilla contract was foolish.
No, it wasn’t. Who should they have went after instead then??
Relying on Jennings was a poor decision.
Those are chances you have to take if you are the Rangers.
long list of pitching disappointments that has plagued JD’s administration.
Wrong, wrong, and more wrong.
People have screwed up…
Water is wet.
But to say that there is nothing wrong with the pitching in Arlington that JD’s draft strategy won’t fix is wrong.
Why not? Why can’t you give him that chance?
More “whaaaaa???”
Wes Littleton – I don’t know what the Rangers have been doing with him
maybe he’s not that good? ever think of that?
Frank Francisco – he has never materialized to what he should be with his stuff
Yes, he has.
Robinson Tejeda – should have been a much better pitcher, but he never could quite find his groove – each good start was followed by several awful ones
Are you kidding me…
Where was all this bitching last year when our bullpen was the best in the majors?
Also, what’s wrong with a team ERA of 4.60 in 2006 and a 4.75 last year?
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First, can you get it through your head
that I’m not complaining about the minor leagues…
I went through that list not as a list of complaints about JD. I know that every one of them has extenuating circumstances. Of course the Volquez for Hamilton deal worked out. Maybe Chris Young would not have been as successful in Texas. Tejeda, Littleton, etc just may not have been good, and maybe BMac’s and Gabbard’s injuries are just flukes. But that is a lot of maybes.
I’m simply saying that mistakes have been made at the MAJOR LEAGUE level when it comes to pitching. And while pitching is highly variable – there are going to be hits and misses – this team has only had misses lately. If it was all random, Texas would have had some ‘hits’ as well. The old regime (Connor and Chiti) can only claim Feldman as a success story, and he only half-counts.
Anyway, there is no point arguing this with you – we’re both in agreement that JD is doing a good job rebuilding pitching depth in Texas. And we both agree that something has been wrong – you just think it is an indictment of the talent available (probably because of John Hart and Buck), and I think that it had to do with the ability of the Texas coaches to judge and operate their pitching staff at the big league level.
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re:
I’m simply saying that mistakes have been made at the MAJOR LEAGUE level when it comes to pitching.
Yes, but that is something no one can change or do anything about. No one can help it if a pitcher gets hurt. It actually wasn’t really that much of a problem last couple years. It’s just ironically freaky that it’s all this year.
Bad pitchers doesn’t necessarily mean the philosophy is bad or the coaches are bad. Do you really think of pitchers like CC or Gerinke or Lincecum or whoever really good was here, that they wouldn’t be as good because of the pitching philosophy and the coaches around them here??
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How did this devolve into an attack on JD?
Last time I checked, JD is the GM of this team, not it’s pitching coach/bullpen coach/ML pitching scout/etc. It’s JD’s job to make moves based upon what his baseball people tell him. I think he’s been getting some very poor advice on the trade front from his upper-level scouts. His draft apparatus is obviously very good, as are his lower level scouts and pitching instructors. But something definitely happens to these kids when they hit AAA or the majors—the results have been way too consistent to think otherwise.
I think firing Connor and Chiti are a good first step to correcting the overall problems of the upper level pitching in the organization. I don’t think Hawkins is the answer since he’s been coaching in AAA. I think JD needs to clean house with his upper level coaches and scouts and money whip proven talent evaluators and coaches to replace them.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
A change in pitching philosophy comes from the top because he is the one who’s hiring and firing people.
I think he’s been getting some very poor advice on the trade front
Other than the Buck driven CY trade, which trades do you think he’s getting ‘poor advice’ from ‘others’?
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Danks/BMac, mainly.
I also think there were better option to drop from the 40 than Gallaraga.
Again, JD is the guy that’s in a position to fix an upper level pitching situation that is obviously broken. He’s not a baseball guy in the sense that he knows things like arm slots and how to improve a player’s breaking ball. That has to come from pitching coaches and talent evaluators. He has also inherited a lot of staff from the Buck/Hart years, so I don’t think the problem is JD’s fault. But it needs to be fixed before we ruin another generation of pitchers or we are forced to watch them succeed elsewhere.
Just so we’re clear: I’m a JD fan. I don’t think JD is part of the problem. I DO think he can be part of the solution by cleaning house at the upper levels.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Danks/Bmac
almost any other team would have made that same trade, including the people at BA and BP. It was widely praised. So, not sure that was ‘poor advice’.
I guess what i’m trying to figure out now is, what pitchers did the Rangers ‘ruin’?
Why can’t we just say that, hmmm, maybe some of these pitchers just aren’t that good. Thus, what i’ve been saying all along, the talent is finally here, and the new philosophy that JD brought in will just take some time. As for the major league level, what else can JD do more than try and lure FA pitchers?
Let’s say JD got Zito and he’d suck like he is now in SF here instead. We’d have this same convo still…(he just sucks, but we’d be blaming everyone else for his suckiness)
Talent >>>>>>>>>> anything else. It’s really that simple.
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It really is easy to argue
that if a guy does badly, it was because he wasn’t talented. You’re defining talent by having success, so there is no way for you lose the argument since you can just dismiss all Ranger pitchers as untalented. But if it is only talent, then why the hell even bother having coaches?
Frankly, no one knows whether or not Tejeda was ruined or just not talented (he was held in pretty high regard before he came here). We don’t know whether BMac was injured because of Connor or just a fluke thing. We don’t know if CJ was messed up by the pressure of being put into a role he wasn’t ready for or injury or mechanics or what. And so on. These are all N=1 experiments, and you can’t redo them so you don’t know the cause of the result…
My point – and my only point – is that there have been a lot of guys who people thought were talented suddenly become untalented when they came to Texas.
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
like aaron sele and rick helling?
you can find cases like that everywhere. Ultimately, pitching coaches and hitting coaches are superfluous in the majors. They get too much credit and too much blame.
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 11:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too much credit
and too much blame, same thing can be said of managers.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Aug 14, 2008 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
since JD took over
how many of the pitchers that he has drafted have continually to get hurt??
and again, you think a change in pitching philosophy should help an ENTIRE system overnight??
please.
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said anything about "overnight?"
The evidence speaks for itself. We have prospects year after year that show tons of promise in A ball. Some even show promise in AA. That promise vanishes when they get higher and the become plagued by injuries. Pitchers leave Arlington and find success elsewhere with alarming regularity. Obviously you can’t change that overnight, but if you never start the change, you can’t change it long term either.
Are you really arguing that because we can’t change things overnight, that we should simply maintain the status quo? Like I said, if you keep doing the same things over and over expecting different results, you’re dooming yourself to extended failure.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But would you agree
That firing Connors, who has a rep for tinkering with mechanics, could have an effect on the health of prospect that are being called up?
by awillis111 on Aug 13, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh? who says we are at status quo??
A new philosophy takes years to implement, and they started that with JD’s first draft class. What do you want to do, rush all those guys to see if it would work in the majors right now? What exactly do you want JD to do? Go after Zito and Dice-K? Oh wait he did. I don’t understand your bitching here, that is all…
You want to bitch about the CY trade, fine…but, what exactly do you want JD to do right now? Millwood and VP had pretty good 1st years here, then started sucking…who’s fault is that? VP is actually doing fine now. How do you stop injuries? Hitters are getting hurt here all the time as well, why don’t we change our hitting philosophy?
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This team needs to stop
getting injured so the entire rotation isn’t made up of your 5th-9th starters all the time.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Aug 13, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do we fix the pitching?
Injuries are part of the game and this year we have been hit exceptionally hard by injuries.
The kids are all being rushed.
The pen has been over used all year long.
The closer role has been a dissapointing this year.
How exactly do the Rangers change the historical trends of being one of if not THE worst pitching team in MLB?
by Bigfan16 on Aug 13, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I knew that, I'd be making millions as the Rangers ...
pitching coach. But is it really coincidence that the Rangers have these same pitching issues season after season? You can certainly write some injuries off to bad luck, but injuries to our pitchers over the last few years have reached epidemic proportions. That can’t all be bad luck. I think there is plenty of evidence with this team’s staff to suggest they’re doing something fundamentally wrong.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not arguing with you but agreeing with you.
The problem IMO is the rotation not the pen. Since 2000 the rangers have used a minimum of 11 and as many as 17 different pitchers to start a game per season. In the past three years we have used 13, 15 and 12. The pitchers who have started a game for the Rangers are: AJ, Hunter, Maddog, Mathis, Hurley, Jennings, Harrison, Ponson, Rheineker, Koronka, Gallaraga, Volquez, Padilla, Milly, Feldman, Gabbard, Mendoza, Wells, Dickey, Loe, BMac, Tejeda, Wright, Eyre, Wood, Bauer, Wasdin and Eaton. That is 28 SP in three years and the list is in no particular order. Certainly injuries play into the game but HOW can anyone make progress when there is a revolving door rotation?
The simple answer is call 1-800 getapitcher. Yes that means money whipping FA’s. Say what you will about Milly and Padilla but they have started games in each of the season they have been here. What if the Rangers sign both CC and Sheets at ridiculously large contracts? The rotation would stabilize and we could develop the kids in a more patient and consistent approach. Milly and Pads come off the books in the next two years. That is two years investing into the future pithing by making them work on the fundamentals in the minors. They will get their chances as injuries will happen. But would we be using 11 plus SP’s per year? Would the pen be over used by June?
Well, pitching is the problem and there are no easy answers. I like the kids in the system but do not beleive anyone will be successful in the midst of this chaos.
by Bigfan16 on Aug 13, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Money is not the answer
If they offer CC 200 mil, the Yankees will over him 201 mil. They won’t sign CC.
If they sign Sheets, he’ll make 2 starts, then go on the 60 day DL. This will somehow be blamed on JD\Wash\some TX pitching coach… but it won’t be a new development in Mr Sheets life.
You HAVE to stick with the plan. Nobody expected the kids to succeed this year. But they are getting valuable experience (See Tampa, circa 2007, team ERA 5.53).
by Oddibee on Aug 13, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How exactly do the Rangers change the historical trends of being one of if not THE worst pitching team in MLB?
look at AA/HiA/LoA/SS/Rookie and hope a few pan out
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not good enough for me.
Yes there is a ton of talent there. The ranger system has not provided the stability to develop the talent to reach its potential. This is NOT the talents fault, nor IMO the coaching but an organizational issue. We rush the kids before they have the fundamentals and finer points of the game developed in the minors. Put the kids in a situation before they are as ready as they can be and then get rid of them because they have lost confidence.
Slow down the development by signing FA’s and stabilize the rotation and the rewards would be much greater in developing the talent you mention.
by Bigfan16 on Aug 13, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
long time no see athos
hows sher-town holding up?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's still here.
I took my sons out to the campus last weekend to ride their big wheels around and couldn’t believe all the changes they’ve made. I jog along the south side of the campus on a regular basis and they’ve apparently done a ton of building on the north side. We were going up Grand to park in the main student lot and I was shocked to discover they’d cut the road off for a new arts building. The campus is a lot more impressive than it was during my tenure.
Were you a senior this past year?
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Athos
Nice job running ortonius off the board the other day…...greatness.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Aug 13, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh. I noticed that fanpost was deleted.
I really didn’t intend to run anybody off. That stuff just gets under my skin sometimes.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes sir
live in DC now haha
i mis ssherman sometimes. AC/Sherman were very good to me
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Byrd
I can’t imagine. That has to be some seriously frustrating shiz.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Aug 13, 2008 10:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the only good point Parcells ever made
what do you want this team to do, dial 1-800-getapitcher? It ain’t that simple…
Tony Romo's #1 fan!
by Longhorn on Aug 13, 2008 10:59 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ugh
now back to another episode of “OW! MY BALLS!”
by bushe on Aug 13, 2008 11:07 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Gee
I guess it wasn’t the Pitching coaches. Who’s the next Scapegoat?
by SanDiegoKev on Aug 13, 2008 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Can't make that call
Yet. The issue of release point, stride length, subsequent injuries has played out, but alternatives haven’t yet. In my season nots, Connor being gone is the highlight of the season.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Aug 13, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No the philosphy should be
“Do whatever it takes to sign ELITE starting pitchers” and not guys like Jennings and Ponson (I know Ponson pitched well). I also know elite pitchers don’t become available every year too. That’s why we should do everything we can to sign BOTH CC and Sheets.
I would say both will command a total of around 40M a year. We get rid of Millwood’s 10.4M, Jennings 4M is off the books, and get rid of Cat’s 4M. That’s a total of 18.4M so we’d be adding 21.6M from CC and Sheets, an extra 5M on Bradley’s contract, and something like an extra 10M on Young’s extension. So that’s something like 36.6M. That would put us at around 103M while not including the other player salary increases. That would put us in 10th place in salary.
With our offense, can it be safe to say we’d be a strong playoff candidate with CC, Sheets, and Padilla as our 1-3 starters?
by Coolbean04 on Aug 13, 2008 11:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
CC/Sheets/Padilla/McCarthy/Hurley
We could do some serious damage with that rotation.
by AirJordan on Aug 13, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why hurley
why not any of the other zillion options?
hurley is the most overrated prospect on the rangers/in our minors. by FAR.
candates are:
Millwood
Padilla
Feldman
Harrison
Hurley
Feliz (if you listen to Nolan?)
McCarthy
Diamond (probably not unless he tears the AFL a new one?)
Gabbard
Mendoza (should be in the pen)
Nippert (or pen?)
Tommy Hunter
Doug Mathis (pen?)
AJ Murray (injuries? pen?)
Michael Ballard (possibly?)
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
you lost credibility when you mentioned Ballard. Haha. I guess it wouldn’t hurt if Feldman or Millwood got the spot instead of Hurley . But Hurley was doing good before he got bit by the mysterious injury bug that befuddles all Ranger pitchers once they reach the majors. BTW I think that there is no way in hell we sign both of them and probably neither but …
by AirJordan on Aug 13, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well cancel that (ballard)
just remember he was gonna get called up at one point but didnt so thought he might be an option
...then i looked up his #s..ugh-lee
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ballard is miscast as a starter
in the upper levels due to lack of depth. I think he can make it in the bullpen on the big club.
by Goyogringo on Aug 13, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
totally
Should have inked CY winner Zito too! And Hampton, traded for Mulder. Signed Jason Schmidt, Pedro, and Bronson Arroyo!
by bushe on Aug 13, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
back in 2002/3?
could have been a dynasty! lol
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i had forgotten about schmidt.
ouch.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Aug 13, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea because
CC and Sheets are comparable to Scmidt, Arroyo, and Pedro. Hey Dickhead, if you’re going to make a comparison. Why don’t you make a correct one.
Last time I checked
Zito – Was on the decline each year when he signed. A lot of people on this board saw that and mentioned it.
Schmidt – Was like 34 years old when he signed his contract, he’s OLD.
Pedro – Again, 34 years old when he signed with the mets. He started to stink it up 2nd year with the mets at 35 years old.
Arroyo – Not in the same class as CC and Sheets
Hampton – Coors Field back then killed any pitcher. When Hampton went to ATL, his first year was pretty solid and that’s with an age of 33. Obviously old age is getting to him too.
One thing you failed to realize is most contract signings were done when they were like 33-34 years old.
CC at 28 and Sheets and 30 will have their contracts expiring when they’re around 35 years old.
by Coolbean04 on Aug 13, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The time when they should have signed Zito was when they drafted him
but they didn’t because of a few thousand dollars. Now they are doing what they should have been doing all along. Building through the draft and young players.
by texnykazrus on Aug 13, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sticks and stones
No reason for name calling friend.
Ok Sheets is slightly more durable than Blalock and CC is fat. My point is that 8 of the 16 highest paid ML pitchers currently are suck festivals. The other 8 include some that have been hurt for extended stretches or have suffered ineffectivity too. People didn’t sign them to those contracts because they thought they were going to dive into toilet water.
RBiA I would argue is just as bad as Coors because it breaks pitchers down through the heat in addition to being a hitters park.
I listed 6 that didn’t work out, 5 FAs and left Millwood off the list because I figured he would be readily apparent reason that FAs don’t go so hot. Of the 16 pitchers the ones who weren’t TOTAL busts and signed as FAs are Carpenter (who is a special case) and Pettitte.
I would rather sign Manny than Sheets and he’s a septegenarian (or close) because at least he’ll see the field. Maybe Burnett because at least he’d be a cheaper injured pitcher.
by bushe on Aug 13, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This...
ia a great point:
My point is that 8 of the 16 highest paid ML pitchers currently are suck festivals.
The Rangers need to be very careful with the pitchers they decide to hand big $ to. The last thing this team needs is another Chan Ho debacle. It also shows the importance of developing your own good young starting pitching rather than relying on just signing the biggest FA pitchers in a given year.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 13, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
CC is not signing in Texas
I wish people would move on from that…
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we offer the biggest contract
he will…
When was the last time a player didn’t take the biggest contract offered?
by tyd3311 on Aug 13, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People always say this
and obviously you can blow anyone out of the water, ARod style. That is a silly argument though. Daydreaming that Hicks is going to relive his ARod days and just sign every free agent because he has the money is a good way to be disappointed in a few months.
CC has no ties to the DFW area, and Texas is not a team players go to in order to win a world series. So it would have to be money. The last two big Ranger free agent pitchers (Park, Millwood) were very expensive busts, and they came very, very close to doing what you are saying with Barry Zito, which would have made the Park signing look like a bargain deal. Do you really think Hicks is going to go swimming in those waters again?
Sheets is a different story, because he has strong ties to the area, and his injury concerns will drive his price down. He’s a bigger injury risk than Sabathia, but at potentially half the dollar commitment, he’s not nearly as risky a signing.
This isn’t fantasy baseball. Sometimes you have to be realistic about how things will play out.
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very good points
but if I were a pitcher, I’d be sporting a raging mega-huge boner to pitch for the Rangers…if you’re a legit top-pf-the-rotation ace, you’d have a realisitc shot at 30 wins considering the retarded run support you’d be getting. Add that to the fact that if you could come here and be a top 5 MLB pitcher that would help turn the franchise around, you’d be a living legend in DFW. But it does get hot as balls outside in August….
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
by Bob Loblaw on Aug 13, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wilting boner
You’d have a raging boner until you remembered the bullpen would mean you’d have 20 no decisions instead of 20 wins.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Aug 13, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YEP I'm afraid you're right...
semi-hard is the most likely scenario. :(
Wheres Rafael Palmeiro when you need him??
I've never seen a pitcher with "bone spur" issues throw 96 mph. The only spurs I'm aware of are the spurs that Wash has buried in C J's ass as he rides him. I love ya C J but welcome to Wash's DOGHOUSE.
.
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 13, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I forgot about the bullpen. DAMN YOU, RELIEF PITCHERS FOR KILLING MY ERECTION!!!!!
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
by Bob Loblaw on Aug 13, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HAHAHA + 1
I've never seen a pitcher with "bone spur" issues throw 96 mph. The only spurs I'm aware of are the spurs that Wash has buried in C J's ass as he rides him. I love ya C J but welcome to Wash's DOGHOUSE.
.
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 13, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed,
No real offense to CC but I seriously doubt he wants to endure the sweat box. He isn’t the slimmest of men in the world and I could definetly see him wilting in the summer in that ballpark.
If we got either one of those, I’d be willing to bet it would be Sheets over CC.
by sidebar54 on Aug 13, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one wants to sign here
and that won’t change next year. We are going to get our aces via trade. Seems that the fans still have the same old philosophy of the previously discredited regime. Think Oakland not Yankees…
by Goyogringo on Aug 13, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
knockoutking...
I have read some really, really stupid things before, but calling Hurley as the most overrated prospect is absolutely asinine.
If you don’t include the last game he pitched when it was OBVIOUS he was still hurt, his ERA was 3.5 through four games with a 1-1 record.
by sidebar54 on Aug 13, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
writing a journal
eom
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the bad pitching
is entirely due to lack of talent…I think there is a mental aspect to it. Their demeanor on the mound doesn’t appear to be full of confidence.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 13, 2008 11:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On a happier note, BMac had a nice outting in Oklahoma yesterday.
6 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 1 BB, 4 SO.
That made me smile.
by Athos on Aug 13, 2008 11:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As bad as an outing as Frankie had
and don’t get me wrong, I am in no way relieving him of the blame, part of the blame has to go to Laird. Pedroia had shown no ability to hit Frankie’s fastball and you’re up 1-2 in the count. And then he calls for a CURVE BALL?? And what’s worse, Pedroia was sitting on it. He coild have thrown a fast ball right by him. Granted Francisco didnt make a good pitch, but still, as a catcher, you have to be smarter than that and play to your strength.
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Aug 13, 2008 11:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Would anyone really be upset IF...
The Rangers let go of Jennings and Cat this off season?
Resigned Bradley at an increase of $10M per year?
That along with Youngs contract brings the payroll to around $73M.
Sign FA’s CC, Sheets and Krod at an average of $18M per. That adds $54 and brings the payroll up to $127M.
Then package Salty, BMac, Murphy, Felman and Andrus in exchange for Greinke? Yes we are overpaying but it would get the job done.
The rotation would be CC, Sheets, Milly, Padilla and Greinke. The pen would include a great L/R combo for late innnings ala the Reds nasty boys with Cj and Krod. The offense is intact. The OF still has Hammy, Byrd, Boggs and Bradley when healthy. There is even room for a Cruz or JMJ.
I know the problem is the money but that would make a great team. In the coming two years both Milly and Pad’s contracts come off the books and room is available for the young pitchers who should be spending time in the minors working on the details that makes a talented pitcher a MLB pitcher.
Just my rant of the day but would anyone really be upset if all that happened before next season started?
by Bigfan16 on Aug 13, 2008 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Damn
Salty, BMac, Murphy, Feldman, and Andrus…
Holy $%^.
That is Funny… for Greinke….. a guy who hasn’t established himself has a true Major League ace….
by tyd3311 on Aug 13, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1000000000000
i think im getting to the point of absolutely hating greinke for no other reason than all the moron rangers fans willing to sell the entire farm plus some to get the kid.
PS: Greinke is a FA before BMAC, just saying.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 13, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think trading Salty and Andrus for Greinke
is equivalent to selling the farm. Our farm would still be extremely strong after that trade.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 13, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think Greinke brings back
4 major league ready players, and a top prospect….
by tyd3311 on Aug 13, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me either
he could be had for Salty and Andrus straight up IMO.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 13, 2008 7:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup and add in a low A pitcher of high quality and a hunter and we can get a tex?
wait, what?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 13, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're in fantasy land
Aside from the fact that you can’t sign 3 type A FAs, that’s not realistic in the least.
by LiamP on Aug 13, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that a rule or just not pragmatic?
I really am not that familiar with the rules of siging FA’s.
Yes I may be in fantasy land but it would put the rangers in the best possible position to contend for years to come.
by Bigfan16 on Aug 13, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its a rule
You cannot sign 3 type A FAs in a single offseason because you forfeit drfat picks and MLB won’t allow you to forfeit basically all your draft.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Aug 13, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank Bigsteve
I have learned something today and I am a better human for that.
So Pick two of the three and money whip them into Ranger uniforms.
by Bigfan16 on Aug 13, 2008 3:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a rule?
That’s an idiotic rule if it really is. What if you lose 3 type A free agents also – so you get +3 picks. Aren’t you allowed to lose that many then? And what about the stupid MLB slotting system, which leads to teams like Houston not signing any of their picks in the first 5 rounds? Should that be illegal also?
I’m surprised the MLBPA agreed to such a rule….
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Think about how awful
FA market could be if NY and Boston could literally gop up everyone
by FirebatM3 on Aug 13, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If that rule didn't exist
it would be possible for a team to lose a FA and get only a 1st rnd supp. pick and a 3rd rnd pick or lower depending upon how many FAs a team signs.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Aug 13, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
A Few Questions
How exactly do you define “let go”? If you release Cat you don’t save any money because all contracts are guaranteed.
Did you see the quote from Steinbrenner this morning?
“We’re going to win it next year,” he said. “If we need to add a top veteran pitcher, we’ll do that. We’ll do whatever we need to do. Next year we’ll be extremely dangerous.”
I don’t see the Rangers outbidding the Yankees for both Sheets and Sabathia.
If people are complaining about all the injuries that Ranger pitching has suffered lately, why would they want to sign somebody like Sheets? Wouldn’t you rather have somebody who is consistently in the rotation?
Is anybody else concerned by Brewers usage of Sabathia? For his career (including this season) he is averaging just over 198 innings pitched. This season, he has started 25 games, and in 20 of those Sabathia has thrown more than 101 pitches. Since becoming a Brewer, Sabathia has only thrown under 100 pitches once (97 pitches in his first game). In his seven games in Milwaukee, Sabathia is averaging just over 8 innings an outing with just over 110 pitches (he threw four complete games). Ned Yost’s biggest flaw as a manager is his misuse of the bullpen. Melvin knew that Yost could ride Sabathia’s arm hard, thereby limiting Yost’s propensity to blow a lead through poor bullpen management.
The Brewers have 42 games remaining this season, and Sabathia will start tonight’s game. Pitching on every fifth day, Sabathia will pitch in eight more games. The final game of the season is against the Cubs (their rival for the division lead), and Yost might elect to start Sabathia should the team absolutely need another win. This would be on four days rest. So Sabathia has nine more games to pitch (including tonight’s, but not the season finale against the Cubs). That would be another 76 innings pitched, which would put him at a season total of 255. Of course, Sabathia won’t average four complete games for every seven games pitched for the rest of the season. Still, Sabathia is looking to log well over 200 innings, and this is right after a season where he threw 241 innings. The Brewers will also be going to the playoffs, which means more opportunities for Yost to abuse his arm.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 13, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Math Error
I just realized that my math was a bit off when predicting how many more innings Sabathia will pitch. That should be 72 more innings, which would put him at a theoretical season total of 251. Sorry.
by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 13, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop being realistic
Ten days after the world series, Hicks will just call up Sabathia, Sheets, Dunn, and KRod, and say – “hey, I have a billion dollars, I’ll give you each 100 million right now!” and the Rangers will win the world series and we’ll all dance in the streets…
Because the problem with the Rangers has always been that these great pitchers want to play here, but JD just forgets to call them before they sign other places.
Seriously though – I agree about CC; he’s been one of the most heavily used pitchers in baseball the last few years, and as a big guy you have to wonder about his long-term prospects.
Don’t blame the Brewers though. You rent a car, you don’t worry about the miles you’re putting on the tires…
by JBImaknee on Aug 13, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can remove Murphy from this list
I would not trade him straight up for Zack
by TRFAN on Aug 13, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
You would not trade David Murphy straight up for Zack Greinke? That is a gross underestimation of Greinke’s value and an insane homer overestimation of Murphy’s.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Aug 13, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
Are you serious?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 13, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are guys on the 40 man you don't expect to see there next year?
These are guys I see on the 40 now that I don’t believe are there next year.
Jennings
Nippert (I kinda like the guy, but not sure if I think he will be back)
Rheinecker
Catalanotto
Vazquez (not sure he is back due to his complaining he wasn’t playing enough)
Ellison
Any additions?
Btw, maybe Adam can help, who are the ones that Texas will more than likely need to protect this year?
by sidebar54 on Aug 13, 2008 12:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you can leave Catt off the 40
as a veteran under contract unless your simply release him -right?
by Goyogringo on Aug 13, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guys off the 40 by next year imo...
Jennings
Loe
Wright
Rheino
Guardado
Vazquez
Metcalf
Ellison
At least one of Salty/OMFT/MaxRam/TT
Maybe Blalock and/or Board Game
Then there are some the Rangers might try and get through waivers to get off the 40:
Mathis
Mendoza
Gabbard
Nippert
Arias
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 13, 2008 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it more enjoyable to have playoff hopes dashed by
(a) being swept by the Marlins causing a beneath-the-surface clubhouse mutiny or
(b) being swept by the Red Sox on a team with great clubhouse chemistry and resilience?
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Aug 13, 2008 12:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
(c) none of the above...
always go with c in multiple choice.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 13, 2008 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sidebar54
http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/8/13/592926/eric-hurley-overrated-pros
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 13, 2008 1:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
pitching
is there nothing that the management can do to humiliate this pitching staff into acting and pitching like a major league pitching staff? Where I worked if you screwed up you were talked to nicely at first then more sternly if you continued to screw up. Can the offense shun the staff into realizing this crap they preform every night don’t cut it? Or are they just bad pitchers. There doesn’t seem to be a take charge kinda guy beyond Everyday Eddie that can talk to these guys and make them take charge of their own work or lack of it.
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
by horsedooty on Aug 13, 2008 1:20 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice theory
You can’t force someone to be more talented or more ready when you’ve been called up as an emergency injury replacement.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on Aug 13, 2008 1:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
You can’t get blood out of a turnip. And, at this point in their developments, you’re probably not going to squeeze a no-hitter out of Hunter/Harrison/Hurley/Mendoza/Feldman, etc. Yelling at them isn’t going to make their stuff any better.
"Does this effectively hide my thunder?"
by Bob Loblaw on Aug 13, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
I am not asking for a no hitter, although if any of the ones you mentioned wanted to throw one I would take it. I would like to see the staff throw strikes and get ahead of the hitters right away. I would also like the staff to take responsibility for their lack of performance. I hear them say that they need to pitch better and then go out and stink it up. Jamie Wright did tell management that he was gonna be there to help them but I don’t hear that from the other guys.
How soon will the offense start to vocally challenge the pitching staff. Surely there is some resentment from the those guys. They go out and bail out Feldman last night and then the supporting help screws it up and they have to try again. These guys should be ashamed of themselves for that performance last night. If this is as good as it gets with this group of pitchers then we as fans have been lied to yet again by JD and the boys.
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
by horsedooty on Aug 13, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hard to do with millionaires with guaranteed contracts
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Aug 13, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one other question
what is going thru JD and Nolan’s minds this am after seeing their pitching staff explode last night? Anyone got any ideas?
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
by horsedooty on Aug 13, 2008 1:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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