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Jamey Newberg on Derek Holland's AA debut

As Zwyica mentioned earlier, Jamey was at Derek Holland's AA debut tonight in Frisco. And boy he did not disappoint. He put on a masterful performance going 8 strong innings while k'ing 10, walking 1, and only allowing 4 hits.

Jamey Newberg on Derek Holland

 

And for those of you who were curious of what his fastball was at on the gun:


5: Number of Holland’s fastballs that clocked in at 97 mph – including all three pitches to strike out the game’s second hitter, former blue-chip first-rounder Chris Nelson. (Holland hit 96 another 17 times, and sat 93-95 most of the night.)

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Holland=Kazmir?

Jamey or Evan also mentioned that he looked very athletic when he was fielding his position, and he showed a great pickoff move.

Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future

by Steal Home on Aug 13, 2008 11:52 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Holland = McGee

Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return

by Brett Perryman on Aug 14, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

mcgee?

Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future

by Steal Home on Aug 14, 2008 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s been a high profile LHP prospect for a couple of years now. BA ranked him as the #15 prospect in baseball coming into the season. He’s since undergone TJ surgery, but that has nothing to do with my comparison. It’s more that we were all discussing the wet dream of adding a McGee not too long ago, and we might just have one anyway. Here’s BA’s profile for him. He’s bigger and probably less athletic than Holland, but I see a lot of similarities:

Jake McGee, lhp Born: Aug. 6, 1986. • B-T: L-L. • Ht.: 6-3. • Wt.: 190.
Drafted: HS—Sparks, Nev., 2004 (5th round). • Signed by: Fred Repke.
Background: After leading the low Class A Midwest League with 171 strikeouts in 134 innings during a breakout 2006, McGee followed up by ranking fourth in the minors with 175 whiffs in 140 innings. McGee had no trouble overpowering hitters once he got to Montgomery in August.I

Strengths: McGee has a nasty fastball that managers rated as the best in the high Class A Florida State League. His heater sits at 93-95 mph and touches 98 with impressive movement. His slider has good tilt and he has improved the depth and fade on his changeup. He dominates lefthanders, who hit just .147 with two homers against him in 2007.

Weaknesses: McGee is still working on mastering his secondary pitches, though both have the makings of becoming plus offerings. He was erratic with his changeup early last season and doesn’t fully trust it. He struggles with the command of his slider and also has trouble locating his fastball when he overthrows.

The Future: Scouts believe McGee could be a power reliever if he can’t refine his changeup. At this point, he’ll remain a potential No. 2 starter. He’ll likely return to Double-A to open 2008.

Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return

by Brett Perryman on Aug 14, 2008 1:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I should add

A big advantage that Holland seems to have is better control.

Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return

by Brett Perryman on Aug 14, 2008 1:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and does he have

potential plus seondary stuff?

by Goyogringo on Aug 14, 2008 1:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be honest

I don’t think either guy actually figures to have above average secondary stuff. I think each can have average secondary stuff, though, yes.

Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return

by Brett Perryman on Aug 14, 2008 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

my understanding about mcgee though

is that many outside (and some inside) the org thought he was going to be a back end of the bullpen arm

…and not only because of hwo many pitching prospects they have…

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 14, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude

You just don’t fuckin like ANY prospects do you.

by SaltyGoesYard on Aug 14, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

im saying hopefully holland>mcgee

actually yes there are MANY prospects i like quite a bit. do you need a list? because i can make a list of prospects both inside and outside the rangers that i like that are gonna be pretty damn good.

i like holland more than mcgee.

some quotes from prospect guys

doog7642 (Blaine, MN): What makes Franklin Morales so superior to Jake McGee? I’m not insinuating that he isn’t — I’d just like to hear you contrast the two.

Kevin Goldstein: Is there some kind of Jake McGee fan club that I’m unaware of, and if so, have they called for some kind of fatwa against me? I have a million McGee questions. And while I say this alot about guys, I’ll say it again here — I have McGee as the No. 40 prospect in baseball — how is that an insult?
Now let’s compare him to Morales. Both are lefties, both have plus-plus velocity. After that, Morales easily wins on better breaking ball, and wins again with better changeup. There are a number of people who think McGee’s limited arsenal make him a reliever in the end, and I get no such opinions when talking to scouts about Morales. That’s the big difference.

jaymoff (Salem, OR): I don’t believe that you listing McGee as the #40 prospect is as much as an insult as it is a surprise as many other people/publications have him in the top 20 plus he seems to be one of the top 3 LHP in the game. Thoughts?

Kevin Goldstein: I have him as the No. 4 LHP in the game — is it that big a difference?



joonpahk (Cambridge MA): wait, you’re still here?? tell me the one guy on this list who you think is the most controversial placement (whether above or below the general consensus), and then defend your ranking of him.

Kevin Goldstein: I’m still here! So far, based on the chat questins and my email, the answer are.

1. Jacob McGee at 40. Again, that says he’s the 4th best LHP in the minors, so it’s not shabby at all. Questions about his secondary stuff hurt him.


Jake McGee: “His heater sits at 93-95 mph and touches 98 with impressive movement. His slider has good tilt and he has improved the depth and fade on his changeup.”

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 14, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

HurleyHater

Thats your new name, change it by next game thread.

by SaltyGoesYard on Aug 14, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Callis

Someone asked Callis about Holland and Kazmir and he didn’t like the comparison. The main problem he had with it was that Holland is already 22 years old and has five or six starts above Low A, while Kazmir was in the majors at age 20. I have no idea how their stuff compares, but I think expecting a guy with that little experience to end up like Kazmir is a bit unfair.

by uthornfan on Aug 14, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oops

He won’t be 22 until October, but I think Callis’ point is still valid. It should be noted however that I believe Dutch was still in Low A when Callis said what he said.

by uthornfan on Aug 14, 2008 12:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rangers

have had some luck finding guys out of JUCO

The Eagle has landed....

by Lonerangers on Aug 14, 2008 12:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing to me

is Kazmir’s slider. That really sets him apart from someone like Holland.

Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return

by Brett Perryman on Aug 14, 2008 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

I believe you’re thinking of Goldstein who said that during BP free week. Only reason I know is because I asked him that particular question. I was hoping to get his comp re: stuff but he went the age route, which was disappointing. He did mention he was really high on Dutch though.

by LiamP on Aug 14, 2008 12:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I am thinking of Goldstein

I figured it was Callis since I don’t have a BP account, and therefore never read Goldstein. I guess if it was free week, I probably read it. Good catch.

by uthornfan on Aug 14, 2008 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

leave it

to Newberg to get my baseball weenie all in a tizzy right before bedtime…..

It's easy to lie with stats, it's even easier to lie without them......

by red shoe ranger on Aug 13, 2008 11:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

MJH...

nice report as well. Liked what he added at the end with Adair’s thoughts.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Aug 14, 2008 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dutch And Happy Happy

can’t get here fast enough.

by coolaid on Aug 14, 2008 12:09 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

HURRY........

somebody run and catch Dutch….....he’s stolen Beavan’s fastball!

It's easy to lie with stats, it's even easier to lie without them......

by red shoe ranger on Aug 14, 2008 12:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

he can keep it

he’s a lefty.

power lefties arent common which is why 90% of the people here shit a brick when we pissed away danks.

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 14, 2008 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

got any soccer pointers?

I’m about to start coaching my daughters under 5 soccer team. (I’d like to apologize in advance to any and all members of our team :-)

Interestingly we are only playing 3 vs. 3. I like the concept, with all the kids getting more “touches” and being more involved in the game as opposed to picking daisies because they know the ball is a mile away on the other side of the field(we are playing on a smaller field as well(15×20 yards)).

It's easy to lie with stats, it's even easier to lie without them......

by red shoe ranger on Aug 14, 2008 12:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ill throw a couple

but the most important thing to remember at that age is that they are 5 and the number one mission is for to make sure they have fun and enjoy the sport. if you can pull that off, wins and losses are really pretty secondary.

at age 5 im not sure its even possible b/c kids tend to hurd and all want the ball all at once so it gets kinda trivial on the teaching.

other than that here are a couple basics,

1)figure out what footed the kids are early. left footed kids play on the left side of the field, either left back or left wing, right footed kids play on the right side of the field, either right back or right wing, thats kinda a fundamental position thing which i’d say is equivalent to making sure a lefty kid isnt playing 2b in baseball even at little league. generally it is whatever handed the kid is.

2)fast kids up front, smart kids in back. kid who can handle pressure situations in goal. (this is kinda trivial too until they understand positioning, but its a good start to how to put a lineup on the field)

those 2 things will give ya a decent idea of positions early on. but again, they wont actually stay in position for a couple years. probably by 7 or 8

as for a regimen, i can lend you some advice on a few books and point you in the direction of a community of local soccer coaches online.

books i think are worth checking out:

The Manual of Soccer Coaching its one of those books that you can keep and continue to use as your team grows up, discusses good techniques in practice and should help in understanding and implimenting strategy

Coaching U8’s-A Complete Coaching Coursesome of this may be a little advanced b/c its for under 8 but anything regarding coaching and developing thats put out by the dutch FA is a goldmine and im sure you can weed out what might be a tad too advanced

Coaching Soccer – 6 to 10 Year Olds sorta like the dutch coaching guide but its 6-10 year old emphasized.

Soccer Coaching for 5-8 Year Olds or something a little more basic.

here’s a decent site that may help put it into perspective though: clicky

at that age just make sure they enjoy the sport and get comfortable with the ball at their feet. get them to understand and have a decent grasp of the rules of the sport. i think adults tend to underestimate kids understanding and learning when it comes to being young and learning skills but its kinda fine line. if you can get out of the season and the kids enjoyed the sport and have a decent understanding of the rules of the game, you’ve done well.

hope that helps some, the whole time i was writing this, my mind kept going back to the fact and pounding into the back of my head “remember they are 5, remember they are 5, remember they are 5”

ps: any questions and i would recommend asking here. it may not be the perfect place, but i guarantee they lead you to the answers if you have more questions and probably with a more substantial coaching background than i have. they will send you in the right direction and online community wirh experience to answer any questions that arise.

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 14, 2008 4:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

thanks for your insight/input. I’ll definately run by the bookstore and check out a couple of the books you mentioned.

It's easy to lie with stats, it's even easier to lie without them......

by red shoe ranger on Aug 14, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

just like Kenny Rogers!

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Aug 14, 2008 6:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

He routinely sat at 93-94 mph in Frisco, hitting 95 from time to time. He generally threw harder than Hurley did as a RoughRider.

by mjh on Aug 14, 2008 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's kind of funny...

How much things can change in 2 months. I remember when I was trying to decide who I wanted to see pitch Memorial Day weekend. Derek was a definite and it was going to be either Fabio Castillo or Blake (though I ended up seeing all 3) and everyone thought I was nuts for wanting to see Derek. Remind me to NEVER doubt Andrew Laughter again! He was the one who told me I had to see Derek pitch (and meet him as well).

Who is happy happy? Feliz?

http://www.mvn.com/milb-rangers

For old times sake...C'mon Kelly! :-)

by Beverly23 on Aug 14, 2008 9:24 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Your memory

of that post seems off. There was actually a discussion about the worth of Castillo as a prospect, but most were more excited about Beavan than Holland at the time.

Feliz is indeed happy happy.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 14, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right...

That’s what I was saying. People seemed to be more excited about Blake than Derek, and now it seems to be the opposite. When I said Derek was a definite, I mean he was a definite for me, not for everyone else.

http://www.mvn.com/milb-rangers

For old times sake...C'mon Kelly! :-)

by Beverly23 on Aug 14, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not exactly true

after last week’s turn, when Blake was dominant and Derek turned in his first human performance in High A, there was a lot of buzz about Blake finally showing the ability to K batters.

after last night, of course the buzz is all about Holland. I don’t really get caught up on any single prospect at any given time, but I am very optimistic about the group that includes Feliz, Holland, Kiker, Beavan, Main, Boscan, and others.

by clark on Aug 14, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the writeup and he is looking great

But Newberg does tend to be excited about everybody, and everything, at all times.

It seems in his eyes we have 80 number 1 prospects, but this kid is looking really really good.

by SaltyGoesYard on Aug 14, 2008 9:43 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a bit breathless

for an outing where he threw less than 10 secondary pitches…he would get hammered with that stuff in the majors no less than our other young guys.

by Goyogringo on Aug 14, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

dmn blog

i enjoy most of the blog posts over there, especially MJH’s, but I hate how i always get suckered into reading the comments. if there were a singular cause for high blood pressure, that would be it.

by 6th street on Aug 14, 2008 9:50 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Feliz vs Holland

A comparison of Feliz vs Holland would be interesting. Who is ahead in their off-speed pitches? Holding runners? Etc. What is the timetable for each on their march to Arlington?

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Aug 14, 2008 10:03 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ideally

Both would spend the entire seaosn next season in the minors and then go into spring training in 2010 competing for a spot in the rotation but most likely starting 2010 in the minors and coming up a couple months into the season.

However realistically with injuries and poor performance I think they could be looking at a August/September callup next year. If they come up before then I believe they would have been rushed which is something i dont’ want to do with either of those two.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 14, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Feliz

Do you still think Feliz reaches Arlington before Holland?

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Aug 14, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep

Although after last night the gap is closing

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 14, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

to add to that

I think Feliz will be up first to stay. Holland may make the first appearance but I think it would only be a cameo and then back down.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 14, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you may be right

but I think Holland competes for and winsa rotation spot in ST of 2010. Feliz gets his spot mid 2010.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Aug 14, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Off speed pitches

I know both of these guys have great fastballs, but where does their offspeed stuff stand? It sounds like Holland still has a ways to go with his slider and change up. What about Feliz?

by clark on Aug 14, 2008 10:22 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

great post from DMN blogs
Posted by Dave @ 9:53 AM Thu, Aug 14, 2008



3 things:

1. I was at game last night. Kid’s stuff is electric. More importantly, seems to grasp how to pitch, set hitters up and move ball around the zone. His fastball has a cut action on it that seemed to bear in right handers and tie them up. Filthy stuff.

2. Stop with the calls to bring these kids up. Let them prove themselves at a level and have success. Holland might be ready next July. Feliz should be ready in April 2010.

3. Please, please stop with the front office bashing. It makes it difficult to read these posts. As far as I can tell, there are 3 trades that have peoples’ dander up:

a. Young/Gonzalez: Buck drove that trade not Daniels. His owner was listening to the managere. Additionally, nobody thought Young was going to be a dominate pitcher. He pitchers up in the zone which works in Petco Park. His numbers would be vastly pitching different pitching in the American League and pitching in this park (as it is, his era this year was close to 5).

b. Danks: Go back and read the scouting reports. NOBODY had Danks rated higher than McCarthy. NOBODY. Through the same number of starts after the trade, McCarthy had better #s. He’s hurt. Let’s see what he does when healthy.

c. Galarraga: Are you kidding me? None of you even knew who he was. He was abysmal in our system and there were no fewer than 10-15 arms ahead of him. We could have waiver him and NOBODY would have grabbed him. It hasn’t out but Sh#t happens.

You have got to get over this. You can’t have it both ways. These same prospects that you are raving about were brought in under Daniels. He brought in Bradley, Byrd, Guardado. He fleeced the Braves (how would you like to be a Brave fan and watched them give away Feliz and Andrus?). He fleed the Sox on the Gagne trade.

Please, let’s drop this and move on.

Now – if they dump Feliz to acquire some overrated veteran ace that is always hurt - let’s revisit :)

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 14, 2008 10:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good post

I especially like point 2, though point 3 is a good, concise summary of the Daniels bashing flashpoints.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 14, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for posting

The vast majority of those comments give me tired head, but that one was at least coherent. But Dave does miss the point a bit. If your team misevaluates a pitcher, especially when your team’s pitching is so abysmal and has cost the team a chance at a playoff run, then as a fan you have the right to bitch and moan.

Was the consensus (and I admitting my own opinion) wrong about all three of those pitchers? Yes. But the difference is that I have a job in health care. That is what I get paid to do. My opinion, though I love voicing it, matters not (as my fiancé never fails to remind me when I post on here).

But the front office has consistently misevaluated pitchers and in many cases the coaching staff has flat out failed to get the most out of them. The White Sox and Tigers are not orgs known for churning out pitchers, but in both cases their staffs did something to help those guys turn a corner that our staff failed to do. Sometimes beating a dead horse and voicing a valid concern are dangerously close to the same thing.

by clark on Aug 14, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mis-eval

I’m not so ready to say they are misevaluating.

Early last year I predicted that Chris Young’s numbers would suffer if the Padres OF defense wasn’t as good this year, it’s happened. The Rangers have had pretty bad OF defense up until this year, and RBIA is not a good park for fly ball pitchers. I think their evaluation of him was not too far off in that way. What made that trade so awful to me were two things. 1) they “threw in”, and 2)who they asked for in return. Eaton was terrible and predictably so. Blame Showalter maybe for the idea to trade away Young, but blame Daniels for the awful, awful execution of that trade.

They did not misevaluate Danks, they knew he’d be a pretty good pitcher. They (along with nearly everyone else in baseball) thought McCarthy was a tick better and a year further along. Blame the mindset that led to the trade, not the evaluation.

Galarraga, give me a break. Volquez netted Hamilton, no miseval there.

The perception that the Rangers are unable to identify good pitcher is a myth.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 14, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps

and i agree with much of what you said, especially about Young. But the fact remains that formers Rangers pitchers are going elsewhere and developing (another pitch, better control, confidence, etc) beyond even what was projected when they were with the org. it may not be misevaluation on the front office’s part, but the blame must fall somewhere, and at some point it cannot be dumb luck.

by clark on Aug 14, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

if the problem...

…is with development i don’t see how thats john daniels fault. sounds like a flaw in the systems developmental coaches… however the prodcution this year on almost every front by our farm systems seems to be great… so where does the blame go now?

the part i don’t get is the massive swell of growing sentiment for feliz and holland and anyone else with a pulse, a fastball, or an b/avg above .300 to be rushed up this year… we’ve got more young talent up than ever before and for the most part, its obvious they need a a little more work… why bring up youth that definitely needs more work?

its the same rush project we tried with volquez that set him back a whole freakin season… all the people whining about losing volquez are the same people who want to rush up youth and screw them up… ugh.

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Aug 14, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bah

1) the only people saying to rush those two are fools and every1 here knows it. or maybe 85% know it.

2) if development is a problem than thats as much on JD as if it wasnt. JD controls the hiring and firing of the whole org top to bottom, excluding nolan and hicks.

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 14, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Going elsewhere

But that may be a coaching problem and not an evaluation problem. If Danks goes to Chicage and Buerhle or their pitching coach helps him develop a cutter, that’s not an evaluation problem on the Rangers part. Ditto with Volquez. I guess you could say they need to better ‘evaluate’ which pitchers need new pitches or arm angles, so it’s an eval thing in that sense.

It seems like Daniels and his staff added a lot to the scouting department last year. I’d like to see that sort of critical look at the pitching coaches top to bottom, if it hasn’t happened already. Adair and Hawkins seem to get high marks from everyone, but I haven’t heard much about the others (which may be a good thing or not.)

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 14, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

absolutely agree

i don’t mean to put the blame squarely on JD’s shoulders. but a shake up, in some form or fashion, is called for because of the points discusses above and because of the injuries we have experienced this year. as i stated above, at some point, it goes beyong bad luck.

by clark on Aug 14, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

development

totally agree.

yo t, remember when we we talking last night and it was about shades of grey and nothings ever black and white? well the pitching philo reminds me of that too.

i relate and can see the emphasis on ground ball pitching, but the IF defense was ignored in regards to the emphasis on ground ball pitching. also they are generally only teaching certain pitches throughout the org. emphasizing mainly 2 seamers and not 4 seamers at all is an example. not teaching a cutter if its appropriate. thats the thing, you could have a kid who has the potential to throw one of the best cutters in the game, but you dont ever teach it and you miss out on that. he turns average or a bust b/c you dont have the capabilities or forsight to teach the pitch.

every kid this team spits out throws a 2 seamer, a slider, and a change up. they might throw a curveball but most dont do it very well. thats a trend and that shows IMHO that this development staff isnt willing to adapt their teaching to fit the individual strengths of each pitcher coming through the system.

anyway, thats my take.

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 14, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

infield defense

I don’t think it was ignored, it’s just that it will take time to fix. Kinsler is not going anywhere, but if Young moves to third and Andrus matures well at SS, then your 2010 infield defense is better. If Young moves to 3B this offseason and a good defensive SS is signed as a stopgap/Andrus pusher, then the defense is better next year as well. Kinsler is tolerable, and Davis seems alright.

I’d guess, though, that going forward defense is going to figure more prominently in their decisions on most every player the organization drafts or signs.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 14, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but the MIF defensive issues were very apparent

the moment the rangers acquired Sori. it has been an unaddressed issue since before kinsler was even here.

i agree with your jist about it being more important these days. yeah! the only good thing steriods have brought is that as its trend as eased we are getting to see a more pure game.

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 14, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right

but I don’t think the organization changed philosophy on the defense issue until the last year or so. It may have gotten lip service before then, but obviously wasn’t backed up by action during the Hart era, or even early in Daniels’ tenure.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 14, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i thought chiti was a big trade Chris Young guy?

am i “mis-remembering”

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 14, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Captain Apologist To The Rescue!!!!!!
3. Please, please stop with the front office bashing. It makes it difficult to read these posts. As far as I can tell, there are 3 trades that have peoples’ dander up:

ok, lets say you had a team that has sucked for a decade and never stuck with a long term plan longer than 18 months (until recently), they still dont spend money, they always raise ticket prices every season, they always raise parking every season, and your a fan whose been loyal to the team since you were a kid, would you be upset? this team has been a rudderless ship that passengers have to pay more and more to ride on every season. when that is a constant you better be ready to take the grief the fans dish out. if you dont relate, you havent been a rangers fan long enough.

a. Young/Gonzalez: Buck drove that trade not Daniels. His owner was listening to the managere. Additionally, nobody thought Young was going to be a dominate pitcher. He pitchers up in the zone which works in Petco Park. His numbers would be vastly pitching different pitching in the American League and pitching in this park (as it is, his era this year was close to 5)

last time i checked, we werent expecting dominant pitching from the kid, but he was really smart and was improving every season. thats not a guy you sell high on. he was local, he was smart enough to adapt to TBiA and he was good (not great). Pardon me if that has more value than what we got back. Also notice no mention of Agone! nice touch.

b. Danks: Go back and read the scouting reports. NOBODY had Danks rated higher than McCarthy. NOBODY. Through the same number of starts after the trade, McCarthy had better #s. He’s hurt. Let’s see what he does when healthy.

you dont trade top tier (he was the 1st lefty picked that season he was picked) lefties who hit 95 for top tier right handers. you especially dont if you play at TBiA. this is one of those dont stare at stats too much, you miss details. and of course Bmac would have better numbers over his 1st season here than a kid with absolutely no major league experience. more misuse of stats. also this goes along the lines of Young with the local talent. texas kid. drafted and developed within the system. the kid has more value to the masses as a pitcher for the rangers than BMac did just b/c of connection with the fans. can you imagine the added support from fans and added attendance caused just from developing good texas pitchers? that has value as well

c. Galarraga: Are you kidding me? None of you even knew who he was. He was abysmal in our system and there were no fewer than 10-15 arms ahead of him. We could have waiver him and NOBODY would have grabbed him. It hasn’t out but Sh#t happens.

whose kidding who? you dont give up on young pitching for old damaged pitching. you just dont. ever. period.

points 1 and 2 are valid and pretty good, point 3a -3c are absolutely disgusting. say they were mistakes, say JD was learning, but dont go justifying the past wrongs through rose colored glasses and saying those trades werent his fault b/c they were and its infuriating to fans. fans are willing to look past them and have seen his growth as a GM, but those trades are ugly, and justifying them is idiocy.

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 14, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holland and Feliz, per Keith Law

In his chat today, Law said he’d rank Holland in the top 40 (and maybe even top 25 if he continues to dominate in Frisco) and that Feliz will be in the top 10 when he puts out his top-100 prospect list in the offseason.

And for what it’s worth, he seems confidant that the Rangers will sign both Smoak and Ross tomorrow.

by naropean on Aug 14, 2008 1:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

so i guess

we have a good farm system.

by clark on Aug 14, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great news

Now I don’t want to see either of them in Arlington until Aug. 2009 at the earliest. For once, we need to leave a guy down until he has all of his pitches working because neither of them will succeed in the majors with a great fastball and shaky changes and curves.

by uthornfan on Aug 14, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

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