Two draft notes
by TheBZA on Aug 14, 2008 9:40 AM CDT
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PrintMissouri Pitcher Aaron Crow has signed with the Ft. Worth Cats
Well this is interesting. AJM had a posts a few days ago about the Nationals' refusal to go above slot money for their draft picks. Usually, that's a strategy you want to determine before the actual draft process. I know a lot of us were hoping for Crow at 11, and it looks we'll be able to see him up close in Tarrant County. Of course in a different uniform.....
Also, lifting a link from YourNameHere's fanshot last night...
I feel confident something will be worked out by tommorrow, but you never like to hear that.... Only 3 of the Top 10 picks have been signed, so it is likely that Smoak and the Rangers are waiting for a few more deals to go through before settling somewhere above slot. Giants are rumored to be a fourth Top 10 team to sign their pick.
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LSB will look silly
for voting Smoak into our top 10 without him ever playing if he doesn’t sign…
As for the Nats – they did pay way above slot, if I’m remembering correctly, for several of their picks. I doubt the Crow holdout is them just wanting to be cheap, like Adam said. Rather, I imagine Crow wants top 3 money or else he’ll try to pull a Hochevar.
What I don’t understand is why he wouldn’t just go back to school?
Not silly
to rank Smoak there. It’s easy enough to remove him from our personal and community rankings if he doesn’t sign. And I certainly don’t think discussing his strengths and where he would fit into the system if he signs is pointless or silly. Waaaaaaaay too much handwringing about ranking Smoak and Ross.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
I was being silly saying that
not actually critical of dirkatron…
I think Smoak and Ross both sign, for what its worth. I don’t see why TR’s article where he is like “I haven’t heard anything – lets talk about the worst case scenario…” should indicate anything different.
and that, my friend, is why you never include draftees in your rankings
no matter how hard your draft pick weiner is vibrating.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
Yah, cause it's just so much trouble to simply remove them from the list if the don't sign
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 14, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions
Sorry Dirkatron...
You can’t just take a guy out, you have to re-do the entire list.
I will expect to see the first fanpost on Saturday. =P
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
heh
On a semi-related note, am I the only one who has to think for a second every time you hear the word “Fanpost”.
I’m like, “Wait, a fanpost? What the…? Oh, yah, that’s what they call a diary now.”
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 14, 2008 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah...
at first I kept callng them diaries, but I have given in and called them fanposts now. Perhaps we should be rebels and still call ’em diaries?
Screw LSB 2.0, remember the good ’ol days of the diary.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
yeah
me too. actually they could call them just about anything they want and it would take a month for me to notice.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
nats
evidently they were not told until fairly recently (after the draft, after talking w/ their picks) that they could not go over slot
sucks for them
crow can play more/better coaching/boras doesnt want him to go back to college?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
back to college = no leverage
as well
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 14, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions
Yep
but I think they are backing off that. They went pretty high over slot on their second rounder Destin Hood, their third rounder Danny Espinosa and their fourth rounder Graham Hicks. All those signings happened in the last week I believe.
Smoak
I don’t think the money is the issue with the Rangers, and Smoak probably wants the clock to start ticking sooner for his FA status. Major league contract would suck b/c of the 40 spot.. is there any other way the team could ensure his clock would start ticking, but not have to leave him on the 40? Bring him up, outright, etc?
Smoak
His clock doesn’t start ticking just because he signs a ML contract. You don’t earn service time unless you are on the active roster. Signing a ML contract only puts you on the 40 man roster and you start burning option years.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I see..
.. so is there a way to burn an option in the first year w/o having him clogging up the 40 for his entire time in MiLB?
Clock ticking
Right, you don’t earn service time until you’re on the roster, but being on a ML contract does pretty much guarantee you’ll get on the roster quickly and start that clock sooner than it might otherwise.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
crow
I hope he brakes his arm in independent ball. I know it is cruel to say but I feel bad for these small market teams such as pitt and wash. These teams have to use the draft to get better in most cases and I am sick of these agents and greedy young kids who have not proven a dam thing in prof. baseball. Maybe if somone get hurt it will change things. I should say he goes to indendent ball and gets absolutely lit up.
LOL
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 14, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Yah
It’ll fix baseball just like it did when that same exact thing you’re talking about happened to Matt freaking Harington.
Idiot.
Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Agents only play by the stupid rules MLB imposes on them. If you hate the stupidity of the draft rules, then hate Selig, not the guy who lays by the stupid rules he’s given and certainly not some college kid trying to make the most of what might be his only opportunity to set himself and his family for life.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 14, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
my only question:
if he was your kid would you have him sign for below slot money because it was a “small market team”?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 14, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions
so you
would have him sign for 1.5 when the market will pay him more?
thats foolish.
maximize your earnings potential.
if he flames out (a la colt griffith) then you have money for the rest of your life.
if he doesnt, then your in good shape for the next paycheck.
by all accounts, boras is the best. your telling me you WOULDNT hire the best agent in the draft? and WOULDNT let him run the talks w/ the team because you “feel bad for small market teams”
Team Value Revenue EBIT
Washington Nationals 447 144 19.5
Pittsburgh Pirates 274 137 25.3
Milwaukee Brewers 287 144 20.8
Oakland Athletics 292 146 14.5
Arizona Diamondbacks 339 154 6.4
Texas Rangers 365 155 11.2
Florida Marlins 244 122 43.3
New York Yankees 1200 302 -25.2
New York Mets 736 217 24.4
Cleveland Indians 364 158 24.9
this is in 2007 value and in $m
o yea they are REALLY struggling…
so if you get offered 3 mil for your job but the market pays others with your talent 6 mil you should only play for the 3 mil, correct?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 14, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions
God you're stupid.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 14, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions
Small market teams
I have a very hard time feeling sorry for anyone (or group) with enough money to own a major league baseball team. Spending money on draft picks is a smart long term decision and they’re stupid if they don’t sign these guys unless they’re asking for absolutely ridiculous amounts of money.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Below Slot
I haven’t heard of them offering him below slot. I would imagine they are offering right at slot which is 2.15M.
This is the Texas Rangers, professional destroyers of hope, we're talking about. - BAC
wow, blame the system not the kid
if MLB didnt want the rich teams to get the best talent they would fix the system so it would be prevented. it certainly isnt a kids fault for working the system to the max.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
-1 Spelling
Dumbass.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
FWIW
Both Buster Posey and Brain Matusz have reportedly agreed to deals this morning. That should help clarify the value. Posey reportedly got a ML deal, not sure about the pitcher.
also, a little off topic
but it has come to light that Cleveland will not receive a player in return for Paul Byrd. Essentially, Boston won the waiver claim because they were the only team willing to take on all of the 2+ million still owed to Byrd.
If the Rangers brass really felt that they were still in this race as of last week, wouldn’t Byrd have been a solid option? I really think some of these young pitchers are experiencing more harm than good getting slapped around in the bigs. Byrd is certainly not an elixer, but he basically averages a quality start, which is pretty much all this offense needs.
Byrd had a limited no trade clause
and the Rangers were on that list. They had no chance of getting him.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
at what point did a waiver claim become protected by a no trade clause?
this is the first season ive witnessed that.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
Not the claim
but the team has the option to pull back the player from waivers unless a trade is worked out.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
This isn't a DFA
This is waivers for the purpose of trading a player. Remember a few years back when Boston put Manny on waivers about this time of year? It was simply because if some team was willing to take the remainder of his contract they could basically have him. In Mannys case he still had 4 years and about 90 million left so nobody bit.
Also if a team puts in a claim the original team can pull the player back and keep them. Its a tactic teams use to block certain players from going to rival or playoff contending teams.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
ML contract
I believe I have this correct. A ML contract means a player must be on the ML roster in 3 years or they become a FA due to being out of options. Otherwise, a minor league player needs to be a a ML roster after 6 years or they become a ninor league FA.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
I think it is 4 years, not 3
but by that time Smoak, or Borbon last year, would be 25 or 26 years old. If they are not good enough to stick in the majors by then, they never will be.
That being said, I don’t want Smoak to sign a MLB deal.
correct
The only thing I am fuzzy on is if he is signed on August 15th to a ML deal would this year be counted as an option year or would he not burn his first option until next year? Maybe Adam or Z could clarify that.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
service time
doesnt start until they play their 1st game.
smoak wont suit up this year so his clock would start next season.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
Not service time
option years. If you are on the 40 and not in the majors then you are on optional assignment to the minors. So does your point about first game played count towards options as well? As 6th street asked above do Fall Instructs count?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Borbon
On August 16, 2007, Borbon signed a four-year major league contract worth $1.3 million and $800,000 signing bonus. Because he was signed to a major league contract, Borbon was placed on the Rangers 40-man roster and was optioned to Single-A Spokane. At Spokane, he played in 7 games and had a .172 batting average. He was then sent to play rookie ball for the Surprise Rangers and played two games for them.
With Borbon, I think as soon as he was signed he was optioned to Spokane, if Im reading that right. So, i would guess then that Smoak would have to be immediately optioned, meaning his first option year would start now.
I could be wrong, however.
however....
I just found this
Of course, the biggest implication of this signing is that Borbon will have to be added to the 40-man roster, since it is a major league deal. Jamey Newberg said this morning that Borbon’s options clock will begin in 2008, but that he will have four options instead of three, thanks to an oddity in the MLB Collective Bargaining Agreement. The fact that it is a major league deal will have no impact on Borbon’s major league service time down the line, however.
http://mvn.com/mlb-rangers/2007/08/16/the-julio-borbon-saga/
so, I would guess then that Smoaks option clock would begin in 09. Very confusing.
Sounds right
A player with a ML contract either has to be on the ML roster, DL or optioned to the minors.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
smoak
i really think he’ll be signed, I highly doubt jd is going to let him go away over some money or an ML contract. It’s pure luck that the guy fell to the rangers pick, they need to thank their lucky stars and sign him.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
Kevin Castner
Does anyone know if we will sign Castner? What type of pitcher is he?
Jason Cole sez
His physical found bone spurs in his elbow – looks like we’ll sign him for a damaged-goods rate.
So hes CJ Jr
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
You mean a lying douche who intentionally decieves the team for his own benefit?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 14, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions
wow dirk,
thats a HSO, when did you turn the corner on the CJ hate? im not there (yet) seems kinda radical.
what gives?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
It was sarcastic
I don’t understand the Ceej hate one bit myself.
I was amazed and more than a little ashamed to see the amount of vitriol aimed toward him by some on this board.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 14, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions
yeah
it was a cj lovefest around here last season now its a giant hatefest
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
bi-polar rangersfanitis
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
thats good right?
i thought he might be one of the guys we didnt sign. or am i crazy?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
Hes injured I believe
Got injured in the Cape Cod league and the likelihood we sign him is slim.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I would be shocked
if that happens. The only guy of the 1st round that doesn’t sign might be Yonder Alonso.
Allan, 1b, Padres
Signing may be doubtful due to medical issues. I’ve been reading for a couple weeks now in various places that Dykstra is the least likely to sign out of those drafted in the first round.
Here’s a link that gives the status of unsigned first rounders: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/draft/news/2008/266692.html
Yep
He has a bad hip, which is just fine right now but the Padres are afraid it may go south on him. They don’t want to give him a big contract and then have his hip end his career. Similar to what they did with Tim Stauffer when they drafted him at a slot worth about $3 million, found out he had a bad arm after the draft, and then signed him for $700,000 or something similar.
I'd be surprised, too
That team needs to sign everyone in sight.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
where did you see that?
this just came out 30 minute ago (see note on Melville at the end):
http://www.kfvs12.com/Global/story.asp?S=8842284&nav=menu51_4
since next years draft...
…is supposed more flush with pitching, and davis is apparently the real deal at first base, is it such a bad thing to hold hard to negotiate a non-ML contract… if he goes back we get pick 11b next year, plus what looks to be a pick in the 13-15 range… plus two more picks if we have a type A FA leave[bradley]… we could continue to stock our great farm systems and have surplus to trade for good YOUNG proven talent… i’m starting to like this new no-sign reward thing….
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
if we do get a comp pick
we’ll have to work out a deal before hand (read: lesser prospect).
Smoak is good, you add him if you can.
Yep
If we take a player that may want over slot with our comp pick, we will have zero leverage since we will receive nothing if he fails to sign. We would have to make sure the player would sign, so we would probably have to overdraft and not just take the best player available. We should sign Smoak. If Davis ends up being an all-star and we have Smoak sitting in the minors raking, we can easily trade him for pitching.
Law on Smoak
Didn’t see this posted yet…from today’s chat:
Nick, Texas: Will the Rangers get Smoak signed? Think about a Hamilton, Smoak, Davis 3-4-5 in the future!
Keith Law: (1:15 PM ET ) Yes, I think he and Robbie Ross will sign tomorrow.
Go Strangers.
I pretty much expect Smoak to sign, and Ross is done deal...
The real question is what about the late round bonus babies? Can we land a Armstrong, Matinez, etc?
Gamecocks coach Tanner: "I expect everything to get done..."
COLUMBIA — University of South Carolina baseball coach Ray Tanner said Thursday afternoon that first baseman Justin Smoak and third baseman James Darnell haven’t signed major league contracts — yet.
.
But Tanner expects both to sign by Friday’s midnight deadline, adding Smoak’s might “go down to the wire” while Darnell could sign as early as sometime Thursday.
.
“Neither one of them have done their deal yet,” Tanner said. “I think it’s pretty close obviously because tomorrow’s the deadline. I expect everything to get done, but nothing’s done yet.”
.
Neither Smoak nor Darnell could be reached for comment.
.
Smoak was the 11th player picked in the first round of the major league draft, going to the Texas Rangers. Darnell was a second-round pick of the San Diego Padres.
?
What happens if a college senior doesn’t sign? Does he become a FA?
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
There is no deadline for college seniors
They just have to sign before one week before the next draft. So Josh Fields of Georgia has until May 31 or so to sign with the Mariners.
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