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BMac is Back

T.R. Sullivan reports that Brandon McCarthy is in the Rangers' clubhouse, and says McCarthy expects to start for the Rangers on Saturday.

Better late than never with McCarthy, who, one hopes, can finish the season strong and healthy and give the team something to feel good about on that front heading for 2009.

 

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Comments

Display:

EG said previously

that BMac really, really likes to stay on a schedule.

Maybe not the best position for him to succeed?

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley

by Rodney on Aug 19, 2008 5:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

well, there goes my community projection on him...

and, i’m very happy that i was wrong.

to me, abortion is not a religious issue, it's a common sense one...

by Longhorn on Aug 19, 2008 5:05 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yay

I really hope he does well and shows why JD traded for him.

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 5:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

that window has closed...

still hope that mccarthy is good, but jd has already failed this trade – even if through no fault of his own.

not to beat a dead horse, but mccarthy has provided nothing. jd sought a more major league ready pitcher. scoreboard shows another bad deal for jd.

by sam in so cal on Aug 19, 2008 6:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That window has not closed

So he was hurt if he stays healthy we will see in the next few years how this trade will turn out.

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no... it HAS closed

mccarthy can and hopefully will be a good contributor to this team; however jd made the trade b/c he needed someone THEN. we are getting (maybe) someone NOW.

pitching has put the world’s #1 offense in the middle of the pack – trending to the bottom while mccarthy was vacationing in arizona.

meanwhile chicago is 18 over .500 and first in their division – thanks in some part to danks.

jd gave up a tremendous prospect to get a player that was going to contribute immediately. the rangers were 54-69 this time last year (dead last in their division) and 15.5 out of first today. please explain what contribution the more major league pitcher has made to one of the worst staffs in history.

trade = fail based on its stated purpose.

by sam in so cal on Aug 19, 2008 6:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

That has to be the worst reasoning I have ever heard. We traded a 21 year old for a 23 year old for one season and one season only? How dare we. Yes the reason we traded for McCarthy was because he was ML ready when Danks wasn’t. But the fact that he didn’t help us this year doesn’t mean the trade is a fail. If we end up with the better pitcher then we win the trade. It sucks that he couldn’t help us out this year but if he helps us out in a couple years when we are WS contenders then I will forgive 2008.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

His post = fail

I can’t even wrap my mind around what he just said.

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's quite simple

JD said we were making this trade for a more major-league ready pitcher, and the results were that McCarthy came in and didn’t separate himself by any significant means. if you want to look at how each performed:

Danks: 5.50 ERA in 26 starts with 109 k to 54 walks and 5.4 innings per start in 139 innings. He didn’t blow anybody away.

McCarthy: 4.87 ERA in 22 starts with 59 k to 48 walks and 4.6 innings per start in 101 innings. He had a much worse strikeout to walk ratio than Danks and struck out far less batters, but put up a better ERA somehow.

I would argue that the # 1 sign of a “more ready” major league pitcher is one that is consistent. McCarthy was not consistent, and neither was Danks. I would also argue that in the grand scheme of things, the pitcher with the lower ERA combined with the most innings per start should be giving his team more of a chance to succeed, so while McCarthy had a better ERA by 3/4 an earned run, Danks gave his team 2/3 of an inning more per start, which we’ve seen can have a massive impact on our bullpen. McCarthy walked far too many batters in far fewer innings in just a few fewer starts than Danks did, and wore our bullpen out in the process.

However, the biggest blow has been the injuries and the lack of a chance to try to at least come close to Danks’ 2008 numbers, which are by all means spectacular for a 2nd year pitcher, especially one that is 2 years younger than the “veteran” that he was traded for just a year ago.

"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "

by Walter Sobchak on Aug 20, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Danks was fully healthy last year for the most part

BMac was not and yet still put up those numbers. His 7 starts before going down with the shoulderblade issue he had a 2.93 ERA in 40 innings. His numbers from May, after that horrible 3 start stretch where his mechanics were all fucked up, to his shoulderblade injury were very impressive. 4-4 with an ERA under 4. 3 of those losses came during that 7 game stretch mentioned earlier.

Yes the numbers as a whole are unimpressive and makes you wonder why we traded away a good young pitcher in Danks. But had McCarthy not gotten injured and was able to build off last year it is very reasonable to think he could put up numbers equal if not better than Danks this year.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 20, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

either way

the point I was trying to make was that outside of injuries keeping him off the field, this trade still looked like a failure in regards to JD’s point of “acquiring a more ML-ready pitcher” and I think that’s the point Sam in So Cal was trying to make

"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "

by Walter Sobchak on Aug 21, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

based on your reasoning...

completely hypothetical:

team A trades pitcher to team B so that team B has a piece they deem necessary to win divison/pennant/ws – whatever.

THAT SEASON pitcher is not any good, loses every fifth day, is hurt – whatever.

team B gets nowhere. in my mind the trade failed for its intended purpose of winning whatever it is that team B intended to win that year.

two years later, pitcher on team B finds himself and contributes positively to team B.

you say that makes the intended purpose of the trade irrelevant b/c it worked out in the end, right?

that’s not only worse reasoning but certainly apologetic as well. there’s a political campaign somewhere that is missing its spin doctor.

i am not saying that things won’t work out for texas and/or mccarthy. i am saying (again) that the intended purpose of the trade FAILED. please show me where JD or anyone said that this trade was to rid ourselves of danks and bring a better pitcher for 2009 and beyond. last i checked, danks is pretty good. it looks like this may be a draw (at best), and that’s if mccarthy brings it for the next few seasons.

chicago gave up mccarthy and finished 3 games back of a bad texas team last year. they were willing to wait a year for danks, and texas wasn’t. this year chicago is in first, danks is top 10 and the rangers completely suck at SP. scoreboard.

by sam in so cal on Aug 19, 2008 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

McCarthy

If all we were concerned about was 2007 then we would have gone after a proven veteran with probably one year left before free agency. While 2007 was the immediate goal, which was not just contingent upon McCarthy, 2008 and beyond was also part of the equation. Ideally we would have been able to hit the fast forward button on Danks and have him have a year under his belt going into 2007 and none of this would have happened. But we didn’t. He was at least half a year from making his debut and our owner thought at the time we were still that one piece away from the playoffs. So our GM went out and found not only a ML pitcher who was only about 18 months older than Danks but also more highly thought of. Of course they are gonna say 2007 was the reason they made the trade. If they had come out and said they traded Danks away so that in 3 years we would be better people would have been up in arms. Because in 3 years Danks could have helped us out. 2007 was the immediate goal for that trade and that goal failed. But the ultimate goal was McCarthy helping this club out for several years and that goal is still achievable. Your hatred of Mccarthy just won’t let you comprehend that.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was at least half a year from making his debut and our owner thought at the time we were still that one piece away from the playoffs.

Because in 3 years Danks could have helped us out. 2007 was the immediate goal for that trade and that goal failed.

look, i agree with you/this 100%!

that is ALL that i am saying.

as for me hating mccarthy – that’s ridiculous. i am forced to embrace the guy, and i hope that he is everything we ever dreamed and more. do you really think i want this guy to be another pitcher that sucks and keeps the team from winning? senseless.

i just don’t understand the trade. the team sucked last year (as did chicago). this year danks is #6 in AL era. why couldn’t we wait before trading away a young, hard-throwing LH pitcher?

this is why i can’t buy in to the hype generated by our all-world minor league roster(s). until this team fields a winner, there are 1million ways this comes unraveled.

by sam in so cal on Aug 19, 2008 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

why we made the trade

Ask Hicks that question. Why he thought we were a few veterans away from competing I don’t know. Maybe it was the fact that in 2006 we were in it until September. Hes finally bought into the rebuilding thing so I doubt we see anymore trades like this.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i fully understand and agree...

i’m not sure why everyone thinks i’m an a-hole b/c i am not lending support to a trade that i don’t think the team should have made.

it didn’t work out the way the owner (or whoever) wanted it to work.

mccarthy can (hopefully) salvage the trade for the rangers.

i want nothing more than to see the guy succeed.

by sam in so cal on Aug 19, 2008 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could be wrong...

…but I don’t think McCarthy has been “vacationing” in Arizona…

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 19, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

The guy just turned 25. Before his injuries he was considered a top of the rotation talent. If he comes back the rest of this year and next year and performs up to his potential that trade will go back to being an even swap.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No doubt

He also pitched well last year in the second half while hurt.

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he pitched better than that other guy last year

to me, abortion is not a religious issue, it's a common sense one...

by Longhorn on Aug 19, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

So if BMac wins the Cy Young over the next couple of seasons, is this still a failed trade? If he wins 50+ games over the next 3 years, is it still a failed trade?

Basically, in a not to subtle way, I’m pointing out that your assertion is pretty dumb.

by Athos on Aug 19, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's a failed trade

and it’s not even close.

by SteveP on Aug 19, 2008 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm

it’s a failed trade because a guy who no prior injury history got hurt.

Now, what if Danks got hurt — again, a pitcher with no prior injury history…and McCarthy goes on to have 3 very good years pitching for the Rangers.

Is it then a faiedl trade? If not, then it’s hypocritical to say it’s a failed trade now.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Aug 19, 2008 7:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention

BMac was graded higher than Dans ever was.

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Danm *Danks*

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I had a nice faiedl there

whoops

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Aug 19, 2008 7:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not by scouts working for the Chicago White Sox

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 19, 2008 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they thought Danks was better

and they were right.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 19, 2008 7:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question...

not meaning to flame or anything…

But, do you think that the CWS’ full rotation that year had ANYTHING to do with trading for a player perceived to be farther away from MLB success?

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Aug 19, 2008 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Danks had the higher ceiling

While McCarthy was a more polished product

by Telegraph on Aug 19, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At the time of the trade

most national writers were saying McCarthy had the higher ceiling. Not by a mile, but a higher ceiling.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 19, 2008 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not sure what definition of ceiling they used

If they didn’t think Danks would ever have good command, then McCarthy had a higher ceiling. Considering McCarthy was pretty much a lock for #3 starter, I do believe Danks was said to have top of the rotation potential.

by Telegraph on Aug 19, 2008 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

McCarthy

McCarthy was viewed as a solid #2 potential. They both had similar ceilings just one was a year and a half into their ML career and the other was about 3-4 months away from being ML ready.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 9:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't think

it’s entirely because McCarthy got hurt either. Danks simply appears to be the better pitcher.

by SteveP on Aug 19, 2008 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't

It be that he appears that way because McCarthy has been injured?

I think it’s premature to say Danks is just the better pitcher, regardless of injury status.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Aug 19, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

really?

Has McCarthy been given a chance to show what kind of pitcher he is? McCarthy pitched damn good last year when he was healthy.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

5-10 with a 4.87 ERA

STELLAR!

I Stole The Red Finger !

by Clueless on Aug 19, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

4-4 with a 3.41 ERA

starting in May and going until he went down with his shoulder blade issue. That had another couple stints on the DL in there also due to a blister. His last 7 starts before his shoulder blade problem he had a 2.93 ERA.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

A 4.87 ERA is not great but

If he hadn’t gotten injured and had that same ERA over the course of a full season this year with this offense he probably wins at least 15 games.

by jrokc on Aug 20, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're so sarcastic, Beat Weed

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Aug 20, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong...

It absolutely has been a failed trade so far. However you can’t judge a trade after just one year, especially with pitchers. Danks could go out next year and get shelled (although I don’t expect him to).

FWIW I expect the trade to end up being a failed deal. I do expect Danks to be better over time than BMac, but to say it’s a “open and close case Johnson” (obscure Chapelle quote) wouldn’t be right imo.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Aug 19, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

there goes....

the possibility of having him for three more years as opposed to two. I guess the best thing, though, is to have him finish the year in the majors on a positive note. That said, who knows what we will see from him. I’m guessing he does fairly well.

by erikj07 on Aug 19, 2008 5:18 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

it does

I don’t know the exact numbers but if he had stayed down in the minors the rest of the season he would have had either less than 3 years of service time or just over 3 years. If he had over then realistically he could have started next season in OKC and been called up probably about a month into it and finished the year with less than 4 years service time. Essentially adding an extra year of team control we would have had. Now he would have to stay down about 2 months next year to have a shot at that extra year.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No his clock started

when he was put on the 40 in Chicago. I think.

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

his option started

you don’t earn service time unless you are on the 25 an active roster or the 60 day DL. Service time is what determines FA. When you finish the year with over 6 years service time you become a FA. Thats why some teams hold their top prospects back about a month into a season because it essentially buys them another full season of their services under team control.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahhh correct you are

Thanks you

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It doesn't

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 5:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes it does

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 5:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you sure?

Not calling you wrong Steve I just don’t know for sure.

"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley

by boomer1 on Aug 19, 2008 5:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

service time

Cot’s has BMac with 2.055 yrs of service. Lucas says 2+ yrs with hin being arb eligible in 2009.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Aug 19, 2008 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that means

that he had 2 years and 55 days coming into this season. All the time he was on the 60 day DL will count as service time, so after this season, he will be slightly over 3 years service time.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 19, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

correct

He will be arbitration eligible this winter.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

3 yrs

So the Rangers control hm for 3 more years?

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Aug 19, 2008 7:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

right

and the White Sox have Danks for 4 more.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 19, 2008 8:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

he’s a free agent after 2011 – that wasn’t affected at all by this callup

by Baider on Aug 20, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No it wasn't affected

But we could have pushed that back. If he had been brought off the 60 day DL sooner or was kept down the rest of the year its very reasonable to say we could push his FA back to 2012. Its the difference between him becoming a FA at 28 rather than 29 years old.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 20, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BMac

Saturday would be Feldmans turn or with the day off would that be Harisons? I imagine this is where we put Feldman on the DL with the old sore shoulder illness to conserve him for the future.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 5:35 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

There goes

my rangers over 75 wins bet….

by jctrampe on Aug 19, 2008 7:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Good for B-Mac

I just hope he’s 100% and ready to go. Personally, I think I would have rather seen him get one more start in OKC, but I’m glad to see him back. I still believe in him, despite all the negativeness a lot of Danks-lovers spew toward him and that trade.

A Lonestar in California

We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.

by lonestarJon on Aug 19, 2008 7:20 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I hate the Danks trade

and I hate the stupid reasoning of the apologists that try to explain it away.

But I really, really hope that I have been wrong about McCarthy, and that Nolan Ryan really straightened him out and makes a quality starter out of him.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 19, 2008 7:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

to that point...

i don’t think anyone wants mccarthy to be anything less than spectacular – myself included.

as ranger fans we want/need mccarthy to be a consistent contributor to the staff. making a positive impact shouldn’t be hard considering where we are as a team.

that being said, i have made it obvious how i feel about this trade – it was unnecessary and unfortunately ill-fated.

unless danks falls off the map next year, the team needs to SERIOUSLY look at who is judging players’ potential and making personnel decisions. hindsight is 20-20, but the 1-2 punch of jennings/mccarthy hasn’t lived up to expectations. hoping that ex-rangers fail (danks and galarraga) to make our personnel decisions less bad is no fun.

by sam in so cal on Aug 19, 2008 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a bad trade

However, it’s bad not because McCarthy is horrible and is made of wheat thins, but rather the philosophy behind it. Danks had higher potential while McCarthy was further along in development. The reasoning at the time was to improve the immediate competitiveness, which is an unwise one based on poor evaluation of the team’s talent level.

by Telegraph on Aug 19, 2008 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Danks did not have higher potential

Find me a quote from a national writer (not someone biased boob on the Newberg site or here) that said Danks had a higher ceiling than McCarthy BEFORE the trade.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 19, 2008 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not national writers

but apparently the White Sox voices that mattered were saying that Danks had a higher ceiling.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 19, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not saying you're wrong

but I’ve only heard that here on this blog that I can recall.

I agree that the trade was a bad idea, but it was a bad idea because the Rangers were not a young starter away from contending, not because McCarthy wasn’t worth Danks at the time.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 19, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was trying to say...

that even though there may not be prospect experts that were saying Danks had a higher ceiling, there was apparently some professional baseball men employed by the White Sox that thought that way, otherwise they wouldn’t have made the trade. And those guys in Chicago have a pretty good track record on assembling talented staffs, light years better than Texas does.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 19, 2008 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So it's not possible

That their baseball men saw the crowded CWS rotation…

saw a pitcher that was at least comparable in Danks….

and made the deal to give the team a year to sort out their rotation?

Or is that just completely, totally, impossible?

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Aug 19, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably a little bit of both

combined with the fact that McCarthy apparently didn’t get along with Williams and may have been in the doghouse because he complained about being in the bullpen.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 19, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on

do you honestly think that those guys in Chicago were sitting around saying that BMac is a better starter, but let’s go ahead and trade him for an inferior talent so that we have a year to “sort out their rotation”? Teams don’t trade a young starter for a young starter unless they think they are getting the better talent. I’m embarrased that I have to spell this out. Going into the trade, Chicago thought they were getting the better talent, otherwise they would not have made the deal.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 19, 2008 8:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did I say they thought BMac was the better pitcher?

No, I said that maybe they were comparable, but Danks was viewed (by EVERYBODY) to be farther away…

I guess it really is just impossible.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Aug 19, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

are you now saying

that Chicago thought the two were equal talents, but preferred to trade for the one that was farther away? I don’t think any team in baseball would make that type of decision. The only possible motivation for the ChiSox making that trade was that they projected Danks to be a better pitcher than McCarthy. It’s really pretty clear.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 19, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's possible

McCarthy couldn’t even break their rotation….

But, no I’m not saying that was the case — I was asking you if it was possible.

Apparently not.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Aug 19, 2008 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Supposedly...

…they had a big hard-on for Nick Masset, as well, at the time.

Remember how wowed everyone was with his winter ball performance?

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 19, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

they were in awe of his 40 pitches

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Aug 19, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

some teams would make that decision

I can almost guarantee you that if Florida or Tampa Bay had a full rotation and another young starter ready to break into the rotation they would gladly trade that person for a guy with similar talent and potential who was another year or two away. It allows them to maximize the most talent at the cheapest price.

Chicago at the time had just acquired Gavin Floyd who I believe was also rated higher than Danks by just about everyone. They had 4 veterans left over from their WS rotation of two season prior. A rotation that the then 21 year old McCarthy not only was a apart of for 10 starts but more than held his own during that time. So they had 4 veterans who were locked into spots and two young pitchers (McCarthy and Floyd) one of which had a not so pleasant relationship with the GM. Yeah its entirely possible they said why don’t we trade McCarthy for a very similar ceiling pitcher who isn’t ready yet and we can stash in the minors this year until next year.

It wasn’t until Floyd bombed in spring training and Danks performed well that they decided to keep Danks up. They have since said that wasn’t the thing they wanted to do and they wish they could have left him down a bit longer.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

thank God

LSB doesn’t charge by the word……

"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner

by red shoe ranger on Aug 19, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

of course chicago thought they got the better talent

why else would they make the trade? gm’s don’t usually trade for players they dont think are good. just because one team likes a pitcher doesnt make that pitcher better. see adam eaton and chris young. i don’t understand this argument at all.

honestly im tired of going in circles over all this, i really didnt like the deal but understood why they did it. bmac was highly thought of and further along and the rangers misjudged where their team actually was development wise.

i really fear if the team trades for pitching it will be a similar kneejerk type move thinking they are closer to the playoffs than they might really be.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Aug 19, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But wouldnt you automatically say that to the media outlets if you traded for somebody

It happens all the time. Hell the Astros are dead convinced according to their people that Castro was better than Smoak….

by laxtonto on Aug 19, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

corrected

the Astros are dead convinced according to their people that Castro was better cheaper than Smoak

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Aug 19, 2008 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't have any links handy

The only one I remember was Nate Silver’s “neutral” column . I do know for a fact that Kenny Williams pretty much said that he thought Danks had a higher ceiling right away.

If I remember correctly, McCarthy was considered a “sure thing” #3 with some squeezing room. His heavenly minor league numbers were from polish. He has always had good command throughout the minors and with above average stuff, dominated prospects with lesser strike-zone judgment. The concern was that there was not too much more room for improvement and the fly ball tendencies would get him.

Danks had better raw material and is left handed, and plenty of folks saw #1 potential in the repertoire. His problem has always been the command of his pitches, and the idea is that it’s much easier to teach command than to teach stuff. Part of the issue was also the consideration that Danks has always been young for his level, and pitched in a hitter friendly league. Danks is not better than McCarthy overall at the time because of command, otherwise, he would be considered a better pitcher than McCarthy due to superior raw stuff.

by Telegraph on Aug 19, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

#1 potential

do you think Danks is a # 1 starter this year…? Hmm, I dont. Is he a #2? hmm….

by Goyogringo on Aug 20, 2008 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Having the potential to be a #1 is not the same as being one

It just means if everything works out perfectly, the guy is a #1

The likelihood of this happening is not included in the evaluation of “ceiling”

by Telegraph on Aug 20, 2008 8:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Danks' problem

Home runs were the biggest concern for most…

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Aug 20, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No minors thread

Neftali Feliz 5 no hit innings tonight. 2 walks 3 strikeouts.

"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08

by badradiorules on Aug 19, 2008 9:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

shhhhhhh

don’t jinx it

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's out of the game

"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08

by badradiorules on Aug 19, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh ok

Guess he saw what Holland did and wanted Dutch to know who the big dog was in Frisco

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 19, 2008 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Game over. Rain shortened

I assume that your statement is at least somewhat tongue in cheek, but it would be nice if we are breeding the type of pitchers that ability/competitiveness to feed off one another.

Duos next season:
Frisco: Feliz/Holland
Bake: Beavan/Main
Clinton: Ramirez/Boscan

"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08

by badradiorules on Aug 19, 2008 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clinton

I might be more psyched about Perez than Ramirez next year in Clinton…

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Aug 19, 2008 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perez

Long term, probably. However, with a 1.64 WHIP, not a great strikeout rate and his age, I don’t know that he starts the year in Clinton. For that matter, Ramirez may not either. No innings last year. Probably only like 40+ this year. He may get the Kiker treatment.

"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08

by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 12:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BMAC

Because he was injured most of the year does this mean we get to keep him for an extra year because of service time?

by Monkey Brain on Aug 19, 2008 11:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

nope

We had a chance had he stayed in the minors the rest of the year but with them bringing him up now and I assume he stays the rest of the year he would have to stay in the minors for almost 2 months next year to get that extra year

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 20, 2008 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

BMAC

always a great subject for commentary. Love reading the same old arguments.

"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants

by Chase Irwin on Aug 20, 2008 5:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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