Saturday a.m. stuff
I go to sleep immediately after the game last night, and miss the real fireworks.
Huge comeback win yesterday. Another bad C.J. Wilson outing, followed by another comeback and walk-off win.
But all that is made moot by the bombshell dropped after the game, with the news that Mark Connor and Dom Chiti have been fired.
I have to say, when I saw this morning what had happened, I wasn't surprised. Supposedly, during the "Ron Washington Watch" earlier this year, much of the staff was going to get the axe, as well, and Connor and Chiti seemed the prime candidates to go with him.
Both guys are well liked and well respected by the D/FW media, but at the end of the day, Connor has been here since 2003 (he's a holdover from Buck's staff, and a guy who was with Buck in New York and Arizona), while Chiti was a John Hart guy and has been here as bullpen coach since 2006.
Neither guy has a specific tie to Washington, Jon Daniels, or Nolan Ryan, and the pitching has been a disaster. Guys have underperformed, and guys have gotten hurt. And at the end of the day, when that happens time and time again, regardless of how great the Randy Galloways of the world might think they are, the pitching coaches are going to get fired.
Andy Hawkins takes over as pitching coach, and I've heard nothing but good things about his work with Oklahoma. Jim Colburn, the director of Pacific Rim scouting, takes over as bullpen coach, and I have to wonder about whether that's a temporary or permanent move.
Richard Durrett's article in the DMN has quotes from both Ryan and Daniels:
"We felt we weren't seeing the progress we wanted to see," Rangers president Nolan Ryan said. "We're serious about the wild-card race, and in fairness to our offense, we needed to try to do something to improve our pitching. We owe them that."
* * *
"We felt that we needed to try a different direction with the pitching staff, a different voice, a different message," Daniels said
I still don't see the Rangers being legit contenders in the wild card race, and I would hope this move was made because of more big picture issues.
Anthony Andro's article has more quotes from Daniels, saying that this isn't scapegoating Chiti or Connor or blaming them for not doing their jobs. And T.R. Sullivan ruminates on the situation, concluding that, at the end of the day, the worst ERA in the league for a team in the wild card race is going to cost guys jobs.
0 recs |
125 comments
Comments
the move and the playoffs
I still don’t see the Rangers being legit contenders in the wild card race, and I would hope this move was made because of more big picture issues.
This move was going to be made after the season for “big picture” issues. I see nothing wrong with doing this now to try to jolt the staff into actually pitching well now. This team is scoring 6 or 7 runs half of its games. These should be guaranteed wins, but the staff is so bad that they lose as much as they win when they score a lot
By my count, the Rangers had a 6-5 record when they scored 6 runs or more in July. 6-5!!! This should be 9-2 or 8-3 on most teams…
I don’t think this is a playoff team. But if somehow the pitching could become even one run better, they’d have a shot of meaningful games in September. Its a bad staff, but no team’s pitching is as bad as we’ve been seeing. (Remember, you were arguing that this was a competitive staff before the season…). Something needed to change
by JBImaknee on Aug 2, 2008 10:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yep
it kind of bothers me that people are so bent out up in making sure we dont care about the playoffs this year… This move, even if that was the primary reason, was still going to be made, and why not give yourself every shot you can at making it this year??? Seriously, lets have fun and not be scared about messing up things long term when in reality, this move was gonna be made to help us long term anyways, except now it helps long term and hopefully some short term too
by blalock84 on Aug 2, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, this move was definitely done for 'big picture' reasons
If not, they would have got someone like Peterson or Mazzone to be their pitching coach…not a guy who’s never been a pitching coach in the Majors.
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Aug 2, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I smell a
waiver claim for a starter coming…big contract the Rangers eat for a mid-level prospect…say VJ, Osuna, Boscan or the like.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Aug 2, 2008 10:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Kinda,
but perhaps not fat and having a labia…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Aug 2, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GAK!
Hell no!
BA maybe?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Aug 2, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Benny Agbayani?
no, but really..
Arroyo or Livan are probably the only outside possibilities.
by tyd3311 on Aug 2, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
hey he’s a kickboxer remember? Kickboxers are ROCK HARD.
There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.
MILES
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 2, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, and I drew tiny little houses when I was in Kindergarten, but that doesn't make me an architect
by Telegraph on Aug 2, 2008 11:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good point Telegraph..
I would imagine it’s pretty hard to kickbox with a donut in your hand anyways..
There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.
MILES
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 2, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be surprised
if the Rangers pick up Livan.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 2, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why
They need somebody to pitch every fifth day and their aren’t 5 viable candidates right now. The younger arms will probably need to be limited and there is a chance that we can stay on the fringes of the wildcard hunt.
Bringing in a veteran starter to take a spot in the rotation makes a lot of sense, and Livan is available for little to nothing right now.
Why would a move like this surprise you?
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 2, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not only that
rubber arm – let him pitch 7 innings
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
every third day
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 2, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Rubber arm
Also has a 5.48 ERA and a 1.632 WHIP this year. I don’t see how that’s an improvement over any of the young starters we’re taking a look at right now.
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Aug 2, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luis Mendoza
7.34 era and 1.84 whip
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 2, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's given up the most hits in the AL (199)
To give you a meter of how many that is, in second place are Nate Robertson and Carlos Silva at 165. He’s also tied for the third most HR’s surrendered at 18.
I think I’d stay away from that.
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Aug 2, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Harrison
7.40 era and 1.85
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 2, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So what?
We’re not gonna make the playoffs. We’re just not. So, that in mind… why not let the young guys struggle, so they might learn whatever lessons they need to now and be better equipped to handle big-league assignments next year?
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Aug 2, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
While there is an outside chance of us somehow sneaking into the postseason, it’s a very minuscule one. I agree with LSJ here – I don’t see how signing an aging starter who gives up more hits than CJ Wilson is going to improve those chances.
by BlackHawk125 on Aug 2, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you said that Livan
wasn’t an improvement over the young starters we are rolling out there right now. I showed statistics that seem to say that, yes, Livan would be an improvement. Now you say that it doesn’t matter if he would be an improvement or not.
My point is that it makes some sense for the Rangers to explore adding a guy like Livan. What is yours?
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 2, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Livan's stats are over the entire season to this point
Mendoza and Harrison’s stats are over a much smaller sample size.
As I just said above, we’re building toward next year. We should be giving young pitchers chances, and letting them struggle now, so they can learn and struggle less next season.
But I don’t think there’s any real difference between a 5.48 ERA/1.632 WHIP over 139 innings versus 7.34/1.842 over 34 innings.
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Aug 2, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
harrison, let him take his lumps
hunter – with so many innings logged already and just looking overmatched – just let livan take that spot start.
it’s nice and all to let your starters take their lumps but some concern should go to team psyche and the bullpen
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCarthy
Should be coming back within the next couple weeks. In the meantime, if you don’t want Hunter to start, it still makes more sense to let Dustin Nippert to spot start than it does to sign Livan Hernandez.
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Aug 2, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and I don't think Hunter looked overmatched last night
He made two mistake pitches that made his line look bad, but he didn’t actually pitch all that badly. Pitching badly is giving up 199 base hits over 2/3 of a season.
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Aug 2, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what about the 40?
Hunter was just fine yesterday…it should have been maybe 3ER yesterday. He was getting squeezed horribly last night.
He has an excellent fast ball, good off speed stuff and throws strikes. He doesn’t look a guy who would get tired at all…and didn’t look like it at all yesterday.
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Aug 2, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
150+ innings
don’t ruin before he starts
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would that ruin him?
Josh Hamilton is better than you.
by Longhorn on Aug 2, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you shut him down or ease off on him, does that really hurt his progress?
If you keep pitching him beyond anything he has done before, you run into risks of injuries. The reward is too small to take any kind of risks like this.
by Telegraph on Aug 2, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
40
We only have to “hide” Hunter for about 10 days. Hurley and Millwood should be back and then BMac will be coming back. Hunter can move to the bullpen until the rosters expand and we can bring up reinforcements. The main thing is we keep him here the rest of the season so we don’t screw up his options.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Aug 2, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
strike zone
was really tight for Hunter and he suffered for it.
You’re right about that.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 2, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, please
I just had breakfast.
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Aug 2, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he shall be a good man
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 10:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No no no!
It’s Livan…not Levon.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Aug 2, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's very hard for me not to hear the tune
whenever i see him.
if he’s a ranger and he does anything of note, forget about it. I’m gonna be belting that chorus
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's fine... as long as you don't put on..
bright outfits with lots of sparkles and huge white sunglasses while you’re doing it.
There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.
MILES
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 2, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Peterson
Get him.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Aug 2, 2008 10:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
not that this is related
but I remember going after oscar ocosta as the next great pitching coach that would save the franchise. that didn’t work out so well.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 10:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why Peterson?
Didn’t he condone the Kazmir-Zambrano trade saying he could easily fix Zambrano’s control problems in “10 minutes” while Kazmir was years from being ready?
Plus, is it coincidence that Ollie Perez and Pelfrey have pitched a lot better post-Peterson-firing?
by Rangerchick on Aug 2, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peterson
I don’t picture him being the prime mover on that trade. I don’t think pitching coaches ever play that role, although he probably told the personnel folks what they wanted to hear about Zambrano.
Not pretty, but it doesn’t concern me.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Aug 2, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
peterson
i dunno about that. he did say what he said and he also said kazmir was 3 years away from being ML ready. pitching coaches dont’ usually have a lot of say in trades but i think those suggestions definitely influence them.
Doesn’t rudy have some influence about moves concerning batters?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rudy
I don’t remember reading anything where he influenced a trade.
I don’t mind if he does. Coaches have opinions, and being human they’ll probably give them sometimes.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Aug 2, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Rudy was a big influence
that lead to the Sosa signing last year.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 2, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rumblings that he influenced a pena move
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Peterson
After I read this I became interested in him coaching the Rangers.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/tom_verducci/07/01/lincecum0707/index.html
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Aug 2, 2008 11:03 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
sounds good and all
but all that science has led him to some questionable decisions. i’m all for him studying pitching mechanics but his results might lead you to think that he’s not interpreting the data correctly
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HTS
Thank you for that link. What an outstanding column that one is.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Aug 2, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read that when it came out
It made me think we need to hire the other pitching guru in that article: Lincecum’s father.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 2, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont understand...
why everyone is so scared of talking about the wild card… Seriously, AJM why do you care if this move was motivated to help us get to the WC? If that was part of the motivation, then what is the problem with that? Should our team just not try at all to get to the playoffs?
Its obviously an outside shot, but you cant go about you’re business scared of doing nothing to help that goal. Either way, these coaches were gonna go, why not now when the pitching staff has been so bad its hard for it to get worse and we are actually not way to far out of the playoff picture.
It seems like cop out thinking to not consider making this move b/c you wanna make the playoffs
by blalock84 on Aug 2, 2008 11:05 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
problem
he is scared of a trade of prospects for veterans. i am too.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
that already passed… I didnt want that either
Now, why the hell are we scared to do things that wont hurt us long term, but could help us short term?
by blalock84 on Aug 2, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can still make trades
also, i think it speaks to the judgment of the front office. I would have more faith in the front office if I knew that they could look at this team and recognize it as not a contender. bodes well for whether they can make good decisions in the future.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 2, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They probably know
It’s not a contender but with the way the team has played this year they have to say they are still in the WC race for the fans. If they truly believed they were in the race they would have made a trade. IMO
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 2, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Butts in seats is important.
The bottom line is always important, especially with how far attendence has fallen this year. I wouldn’t be surprised if they took a calculated risk in bringing in another SP for a middling prospect, just to ensure solid attendence the rest of the season.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Aug 2, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
attendence seems way up this homestand...
and considering it’s the Mariners and Blue Jays with 100 degree heat, I think its a good sign. The Yankees series will be fun.
by tyd3311 on Aug 2, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we have what we have...
deadline is come and gone, now why not try to win with what we have? I know the chances, like 3% or whatever, but im still excited about what this season can hold, im not unrealistic, but lets at least play some meaningful games in september.
by blalock84 on Aug 2, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who is not trying to win? Who is not excited?
Just because one is realistic about the team’s chances doesn’t mean he can’t enjoy the games
by Telegraph on Aug 2, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, im just saying
why would question a move that helps us win now when you no it not gonna hurt us long term? It just seems like any move to help us win now is questioned simply because now is not the goal.
by blalock84 on Aug 2, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
AJM's comments...
wasn’t it last year that AJM was saying (not in these exact words) that the team should try to make the playoffs because anything can happen in the playoffs.
This might have been year before last as I wasn’t here for baseball last year, but I do remember AJM saying something along these lines.
Now obviously if we did happen to make the wild card, our pitching as it stands right now wouldn’t look too good going into the playoffs. However, there is still 2 months (1/3 of the season) to right this ship. Anything can still happen. The player’s goals and the management’s goals should be to make the playoffs.
by Chris Hanes on Aug 2, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me be more clear...
When I say right this ship, I am talking about with the players we have, young and old. I am not for signing someone for the stretch run to make it. We have to strike gold with the young pitching in order to make it in my scenario.
by Chris Hanes on Aug 2, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
wasn’t it last year that AJM was saying (not in these exact words) that the team should try to make the playoffs because anything can happen in the playoffs.
Absolutely. And I still feel that way.
However…I think the chances of making the playoffs are so slim right now that it doesn’t make sense to try to make moves right now with a playoff push in mind.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 2, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If.....
the Rangers are 2 games back with Minny and Boston in front of them and the Yankees 1 game behind in two weeks will you think the chances are worth it?
by bdavison94 on Aug 2, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
meaningful games in september
this organization needs that. If the Rangers can be competetive trhough September, even if they finish several games out of the WC, they have a much better shot at signing a guy like Sheets. And the fans will take notice, since few anticipated that the 2008 Rangers would be at all competitive.
2008 can be what 2004 should have been – a stepping stone towards a series of strong playoff quality teams. Fortunately, a strong foundation is in place this time, as opposed to the shaky one back then.
by JBImaknee on Aug 2, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To think...
if our rotation was just average, we’d probably be winning the Wild Card race right now.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 2, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My concerns
However, something like firing your pitching and bullpen coaches should be done because of long-term reasons, not because of the here and now.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 2, 2008 11:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense
but I’m pretty sure that they didn’t say “gee, I’d love to have Connor here for the next 3 years, but he’s hindering our playoff run now, so lets dump him”
They were going to go a different direction at the end of the year no matter what. This move does two things
1. it may shock the system enough to get the decent pitching necessary for a playoff run (long shot, but why not?)
2. it gives Washingon, JD, and Nolan an opportunity to see whether Hawkings and Colburn are legit coaching options. If they do well, then you keep them next year. If they obviously flounder, you think about acquiring a Peterson or Mazzone. But this gives them a 2 month trial period on their in-system guys.
It is a very smart move.
by JBImaknee on Aug 2, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Wild Card
From the fan’s perspective, most of us would agree that this team has very little chance of winning the wild card.
While management may deep down have the same opinion, they can’t act like it. The team never gives up on the field, management can’t give up on the team….however long the odds.
by T Coleman on Aug 2, 2008 11:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I couldn't agree more.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 2, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
even if the odds are equivalent to..
the odds of Gary Coleman marrying Pamela Anderson?
There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.
MILES
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 2, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
He’d have to use his entire body to satisfy her….
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Aug 2, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha + 1
and still fall short (no pun)
There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.
MILES
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 2, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correction
From the fanatic’s perspective…
From the average fan’s perspective thay only see that the Rangers are 5 games back for the WC and the team think they can win it. Management pushes this idea so they can fill seats this year and generate excitement for next year.
"An effortless 98" - Scott Gardner after Neftali Feliz's first AA pitch
by RangerMad on Aug 2, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Change for change sake?
Can not argue that chaging the pitching coaches is doing something when something was needed. The team pitching speaks for itself and someone has to take the blame. These two guys are being scapegoated IMO. Not that I really mind. They are great people and baseball professionals which translates to you got to go to make it look like we are doing something.
The pitching sucks not because of the coached but because of the entire organization is not committed to it. Start with recent history where we traded away Young, Danks and Volquez in the past three years. Not getting into the value of what we received in return but why trade away piching when you have been preaching for years about building from within. Then go onto free agents. The price of a SP via FA is riduculous but that is the price so why complain. MIllwood was the last FA signed and he replaced Rogers slot in the payroll according to many. IF it is needed then pony up and pay the price. Finally look at other signings like Milton Bradley, Frank Catalanotto, and see where the money goes on this team.
The Rangers have a low to middle of the road payroll, middle of the road budget for scouting and development (saw that in a recent article on DMN but no link) and have historically been an all hit no pitch team. It will take more than firing a few coached to change that reputation. But the firings can be a start.
by Bigfan16 on Aug 2, 2008 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
"Change for change sake"
it is the theme to 2008 America after all…
Seriously though – even if the pitching is not Connor’s fault, he’s not doing anything special with the guys out there. And while the quality may not be his fault, I’d have to think that the incredible number of injuries could be reduced somehow with an improved / different conditioning paradigm. Something is wrong
by JBImaknee on Aug 2, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young and Danks
They, at least, were traded for other pitchers.
And I wouldn’t reverse the Volquez/Hamilton trade.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 2, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never the less
The Rangers can develop good young piching. We have not been wise in trading away some of these guys and lucky in other trades (Gagne, Lofton and Tex).
I am still looking for a rotation that is not only better than THE worst but competitive (Say top 5 in the AL or top 10 in MLB). The saying is baseball is about pitching and defense. The Rangers have yet to understand that saying.
For the record I was against the SD trade at the time, neutral on Danks/BMAC and undersood but did not like trading away pitching for a CF.
by Bigfan16 on Aug 2, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, when we win a trade, we are lucky, but when we lose one, we are unwise?
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 2, 2008 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had the....
exact same thought when I read that this morning. Tells a little about the author’s bias, no?
by bdavison94 on Aug 2, 2008 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes sir...
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 2, 2008 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Questions of the day...
1) Is Ceejee still the closer?
2) What gifts did he buy Baby Rusty for saving his ass this time.
There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.
MILES
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 2, 2008 11:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Strange Weather...
Despite the valiant efforts by some, pitching cannot be considered a science (yet); it is a chaotic soup composed of millions of variable- rising, sinking, coalescing, and dissociating in unpredictable ways. Yet despite of all of the uncertainty, there are occurrences which appear with greater regularity, and dominating trends that are sometimes obvious even to the untrained eye, and the pitching coach does his best Troy Dungan impersonation to detect these trends quickly and as accurately as possible in order to avoid major disaster or capture potential opportunties.
But how much foresight does he really have? The experienced, which encompass virtually every pitching coach in the league, will detect the obvious trend very easily, and those who cannot do this will quickly be in line for his unemployment checks. Differences are only in trends that are not so clear, in other words, the willingness to take risks. I bet virtually every pitching coach has some personal insights on the craft of pitching that are not prescribed by the conventional and cannot be proven to work one way or another. Of course, some insights holds more wisdom than other, and the desire to act upon these insights are also different. A risk taker can reap greater rewards by acting on these ideas, but he is also liable for more spectacular failures. These spectacular failures sometimes cost people their jobs, so most adapt a cautious approach.
I think Mark Connor’s reign is mostly characterized by a hands-off approach, relying on small tweaks and adjustments. He doesn’t do much groundbreaking, and avoids mistakes. For a team with abundance of good arms, this is a great approach to take, but this might not be the best option for a team that has historically struggled with pitching development – the status quo is not good enough.
On the other hand, I wonder how much influence the pitching coach actually possesses, especially a newer hire. He is limited by his personnel and sometimes organizational philosophy. Contrast the 2007 and 2008 bullpen. It’s clear that the 2007 bullpen was better talent-wise with Aki and Gagne in the early part of the season, but the same actors who performed admirably in 2007 have lost all composure in 2008. Perhaps it is caused by moving them into more difficult roles, but they have been there the entire second half of 2007 and never lost a beat. What is the reason for such a dramatic shift (same thing happened between 2004 and 2005, though the circumstances were different) in consecutive seasons? Did Chiti forget his pitching bible on a train? How much is he really responsible? Connor has been swamped in the stench of Rangers starting pitching for a while and saw some flowers blossom elsewhere. Was he incapable of unleasing their talent?
Finally, there is the question between an organizational philosophy and the personal philosophy of pitching. Is it better to hire a pitching coach who will dutifully adhere to the pitching philosophy in place or should the front office allow the new pitching coach to act to what he feels best? If it is the former, then I am not sure how much other than incremental improvement there will be to make regardless of who the new coach is. In addition, those who are more confident of their abilities may not wish to subject themselves to this kind of a ceiling.
By firing Connor and Chiti, the team opened up a new opportunity. I think it’s time to take some risks and target someone who will have some ideas that someone like Connor would be unwilling to try. This is of course going to be a much tougher hire for JD, since without a keen eye, it is not easy to distinguish between someone who really has an idea and someone who is a cunning salesman of a defective product.
by Telegraph on Aug 2, 2008 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Maybe they can purchase
the Tom House instructional video: The Pitching Edge.
“But there’s another dimension to Tom’s expertise—that of the scientist and researcher. His company, Bio-Kinetics, leads the way in computerized, three-dimensional motion analysis, helping athletes learn how to maximize performance through proper biomechanics. Tom also holds a PhD in psychology and has been a sport psychology consultant for many professional and amateur baseball players. “
by Goyogringo on Aug 2, 2008 11:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tom also enjoys walking on the beach
playing with his Golden Retriever, and consulting spirit mediums
by Goyogringo on Aug 2, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
mmmmmmmm
soup
rising – rupe
sinking – harrison
coalescing – feldman
dissociative – bgl
unpredictable – electrician
cunning – frankie fischer
defective – benoit
by shroomer on Aug 2, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh...
You nailed almost everyone. I’m not so sure I view Harrison as “sinking,” and it’s going to be awhile before I see C.J. as “dissociative.” But I like the others. Even if the Benoit one hurts. I really wanted him to be 2007 Joaquin.
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"If I buy this team, Chris Davis will end up suing me for sexual harassment." - Me
"Oh, but it will be worth it. a few million to you at that point will be pocket change." - LAMuscleFag
by baseballismyboyfriend on Aug 2, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurley Question....
How does a kid that has never had a history of arm problems or been injury prone for that matter land on the disabled list after being here for less than a month?
Hurley was on the DL twice in four year in the minors. One time, he dropped weight on his pitching hand and he was put on the 7 day DL. The other time, he strained an oblique with two weeks left in the season. Both times he was in the weight room when they happened. Hurley has never been injury prone. Hurley was very, very good in his four starts before landing on the DL. I just hope he gets better for next year. I will very much enjoy a starting rotation next year of Padilla, Millwood, McCarthy, Fedlman, and Hurley.
Is it time for people to start pointing fingers at the strength and coditioning coordinator? I think so. Did I think it was fair that Connors and Chitti were fired? No, not really. But I can see why the Rangers decided a change was in order.
by sidebar54 on Aug 2, 2008 11:57 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the curse of texas...
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 2, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurley
I was thinking the same thing yesterday. Hurley was about as healthy as a young pitcher could be while coming up through the minors.
The injuries this year have been ridiculous, especially on the pitching side. I know we have a few injury-prone guys, but not like this.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Aug 2, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, and Brandon is exhibit B.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 2, 2008 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that really going to be our rotation for 09?
Pad’s, Milly, and the kids? Bmac has not pitched yet this season, Feldman a suprise has long been considered a reiever can he do it again and Hurley?
ANy chance of adding a CC or Sheets?
What about the pen? Do we add there?
Let’s see what happens in the next two months and then go into the offseason with a mssion. FIX THE PITCHING!
by Bigfan16 on Aug 2, 2008 12:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
2009
I think barring something drastic happening we have 4 guys with rotation spots secured to start next season. Millwood, Padilla, Hurley, and McCarthy. That leaves one spot open for a potential FA. That would also leave a rotation at OKC of Mendoza, Hunter, Harrison, Mathis, and Gabbard. Five capable and young guys who we can call on if needed and who have ML experience.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Aug 2, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think I would hold a spot
and count on McCarthy filling it.
Hopefully he will be the 6th or 7th guy. That way it won’t hurt as bad when we don’t get any meaningful contributions from him.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on Aug 2, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fill it with
Feldman. He has turned the proverbial corner this season.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Aug 2, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based solely on potential
You have to hold him a spot.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Aug 2, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Rangers signe
one of those two.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 2, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Minute Maid Park...
I finally made it down to Houston to catch a game at the Astros “new” park. While I liked the roof open better than closed, all it did was reaffirm my beliefs that the Rangers need a retractable roof stadium. It was awesome walking into 72 degree weather for game time.
I know it’s not practical to build a new stadium or put a roof on the Temple, but I am positive that there would be a big jump in attendance if it wasn’t 100 degrees at game time 4 months out of the season.
Good game last night too, Loretta with a pinch hit Grand Slam….
by Topgun22 on Aug 2, 2008 12:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Winning several years in a row
will bring back the fans. I’m pretty sure it was ever bit this hot in 96,98 and 99 and they had no problem bringing fans to the ballpark then.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 2, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I still think Minute Maid is the ugliest excuse for a ballpark I’ve ever been in. Frankly, I’d rather sit out in the heat at RBIA.
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"If I buy this team, Chris Davis will end up suing me for sexual harassment." - Me
"Oh, but it will be worth it. a few million to you at that point will be pocket change." - LAMuscleFag
by baseballismyboyfriend on Aug 2, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I’ve been there and I didn’t think it was that great. Old Busch Stadium was better than I was expecting though.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 2, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kauffman in KC
Is quite possibly my favorite that I’ve been to. It’s so beautiful.
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"If I buy this team, Chris Davis will end up suing me for sexual harassment." - Me
"Oh, but it will be worth it. a few million to you at that point will be pocket change." - LAMuscleFag
by baseballismyboyfriend on Aug 2, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+ 1 and the buffet is good too!
There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.
MILES
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 2, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great BBQ
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 2, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh you've done the buffet there?
do you know if the Rangers have that type of diamond club or whatever they call it?
It was quite nice watching the game from up there.. although we eventually went to our seats..since it was a nice comfortable night.
There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.
MILES
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 2, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well....
I wasn’t debatingh the merits of Minute Maid as a Ballpark, I was merely stating that the retractable roof is a very nice amenity. Andyes, winning will bring more fans to the park, it is assuredly the number one factor as far as attendance goes. However, the weather is also a factor, and shouldn’t be discounted. Just because more people will come out to the park when the Rangers are winning, doesn’t mean all other methods should be ignored.
“I’m pretty sure it was ever bit this hot in 96,98 and 99 and they had no problem bringing fans to the ballpark then.”
Boomer’s statement is extremely short sighted and overly simplistic.
by Topgun22 on Aug 2, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No not really
I was there for all 3 years every game and the fans came out in droves even in the heat.
Sure there are a certian amount of fans that don’t go because of the heat but those are fans that will find a reason not to go. I think it is more the economy and not winning than it is the heat. Sorry sometimes simple is the answer.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 2, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1999
Attendance was down in 1999, and that supposedly was part of the reason Hicks wanted Gonzalez traded and to cut payroll
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 2, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of attendance
bob sturm threw out the point that attendance is down this year partly because nolan ryan is insisting on accurate gate counts and no number fudging.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Aug 2, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So they are not counting
The season ticket holders that don’t attend?
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 2, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They still drew 34,216 a game that year
Not bad in the heat nad no dome. I’m not saying it’s not a factor but if the team wins the attendance will get much better. I will say this the Rangers shouldn’t play any day games during the heat of the summer even on get away days.
"Would you mind walking a time or two so I could drive in some runs"? Milton Bradley
by boomer1 on Aug 2, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinsler: "I think our pitchers know what we need from them."
Cowlishaw:
The answer apparently is not much.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Aug 2, 2008 1:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Make Eddie the Closer Now !
I cant believe that CJ Wilson isnt being booed off the mound when he pitches. This guy has stunk for over a month. Eddie Guarardo should be closing based on performance and experience. C’mon Ron Washington make a change.
Speaking of Ron I like the guy but I’m starting to get the feeling that he may not be the one to take this team to a championship level. We commit too many errors which was suppose to be an improvement under his managerial style. Am I the only one that thinks we bunt too often ( often unsucessfull ) in key situations ? We rarely use the hit and run. The way this team hits the ball, quit wasting outs to either screw up a sacrifice or move runners one base then leave them stranded.
by yaz on Aug 2, 2008 11:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
totally off topic, and you might not care...
But it looks like High-A Bakersfield may be moving to the Carolina League next year…
by calim on Aug 3, 2008 1:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

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