Wednesday a.m. stuff
You know, I think I'm about ready for the season to end. Everybody's hurt, the bullpen is gassed, the rotation is a mess, the team is losing games...I'm ready to be done with 2008 and move on to 2009, I think.
Last night encapsulizes what is so frustrating about Vicente Padilla. He looked great for 5 innings, then just imploded. He's maddening.
Mike Heika's story today is about how the Rangers blew it for letting the "unstoppable" Armando Galarraga go.
Ian Kinsler's groin/sports hernia is doing better, and he's going to be re-evaluated in two weeks and see if he can come back without having to have season-ending surgery.
Milton Bradley says he'd like to come back to Texas next season, and Jon Daniels says the Rangers are interested in bringing him back. A one or two year deal at $10-12 million per year, with a team option, would be the ideal scenario, I think.
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There's not even
a lot of guys I’m looking forward to for September callups, mostly because, due to injuries, most of the folks I’d want to see, have already been called up.
What's the secret to a long life? "I masturbate a lot"-Ernest Borgnine. http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/08/14/icymi-ernest-borgnine-reveals-his-secret-for-everlasting-youth/#onepage
September callups.
I’d like to see Teagarden get some more starts behind the plate. And I wouldn’t mind getting a look at Borbon.
September callups
Looks like we will have to make a decision between Cruz and JMJ as to who to callup in September.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think we've got enough folks to watch behind the plate
Until they deal someone, I wouldn’t mind seeing Teagarden stay down. I’m not sure he can raise his value by playing in the majors, but he can probably drop it.
What's the secret to a long life? "I masturbate a lot"-Ernest Borgnine. http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/08/14/icymi-ernest-borgnine-reveals-his-secret-for-everlasting-youth/#onepage
Since I see Teagarden as our frontline catcher of the future ...
I’m not particularly worried about where his value sits at the moment. I doubt he could seriously hurt it over the month of September under any circumstances. If/when we have trade casualties this winter, Saltalasuckia needs to be the one to go.
I'd have no problems if they dealt salty
but I do think they need to clear up some space with Laird and/or Salty in the offseason before Teagarden comes up.
I was somewhat disappointed we didn’t see someone moved either last offseason or midseason this year.
What's the secret to a long life? "I masturbate a lot"-Ernest Borgnine. http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/08/14/icymi-ernest-borgnine-reveals-his-secret-for-everlasting-youth/#onepage
I doubt that.
Even if Tea K’s that much, the improvement in defense behind the plate will at least make crappy hitting bearable. And I seriously doubt Tea K’s that much.
looking at his stats
what part makes you think he will be able to hit in the big leagues? beyond the local boy sentiment (which sure as hell didn’t matter with Young and, to a lesser extent, Danks) and his neat game winning HR back in July, what has he done beyond his hot streak in ’07, which featured an unreal BABIP.
So I guess his 2007 season doesn't count?
I guess it shouldn’t, because an OPS of over 1.000 for the season doesn’t really help your argument, does it? That’s one hell of a long “hot streak.” He also hit well in Spokane before getting hurt. And even as horribly as Tea has hit this season, he’s still hitting better than Saltalasuckia—while playing vastly superior defense, which is more important for a catcher. If he can put up a .750 OPS consistently while playing great defense, I’ll be more than happy with that.
Give it up
Athos…no one around here appreciates catcher defense, evident by the fact that Sunny isn’t even in the top 8 Best Ranger poll.
he’s still hitting better than Saltalasuckia—while playing vastly superior defense...Athos
2007 should count
but so should 2008. And as you point out, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. But I would like to see him hit better in AAA before annointing him as the next Rangers starting catcher.
I don't see a lot
in this years stats that make me think he couldn’t benefit by sitting in the minors, and letting the Rangers deal 2 of Salty, Laird, and Ramirez.
What's the secret to a long life? "I masturbate a lot"-Ernest Borgnine. http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/08/14/icymi-ernest-borgnine-reveals-his-secret-for-everlasting-youth/#onepage
I'd like to see Board Game back next season.
And maybe with this light season of DH duty behind him, we can get him some time in RF next season so MaxRam can DH some.
And I still think the Galaragga fiasco is attributable to the pitching instructors and scouts we have at the ML level having no clue what they are doing.
I don't know about that
He was 25, with an ERA of 4 and middling peripherals in AA last year.
Even this year, he’s been very fortunate in terms of his BABIP.
He’s had a nice season, but I’ll be very surprised if he continues to be even an average major league starter.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Galaragga
had better stats and stuff than the pitchers that were kept when he was given away. Giving Jason Jennings a ML deal and cutting AG is an unmitigated failure of the organization.
And his peripherals seem to indicate that he will at least be a serviceable ML starter. His slider is a plus pitch, very good. It’s maddening that we can’t get a young pitcher that can take the ball every fifth day, yet we gave one away that has nearly 140 ip under his belt with a 137 ERA+ and a 1.163 whip. I don’t understand how any Ranger fan would not be upset about this. JD admitted that he and his staff were upset about the poor evaluation of this pitcher.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
who are you talking about?
140 ip under his belt? Thats not Galarraga is it?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Galarraga
has 139.1 ip in the ML this season, plus another 12 in AAA.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4222&position=P
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
I thought you were talking about before we gave him away
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
+ 1
I could barely watch the game last night. It was sooo annoying and frustrating.
Yeh I know it’s beating a dead horse, but the stench of the ‘dead horse" lingers most when he’s doing to your team what he’s been doing to a lot of teams and that’s being a solid starter. That’s something that we don’t have. I believe Mr. Heika used the term “somewhat unstoppable” not unstoppable.. that’s pretty accurate. WHO do we have that is “somewhat unstoppable”. Noone.
"Well you didn't tell me that you were a Rangers fan" the psychiatrist says to his patient. "That explains a lot!"
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 20, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions
And a BABIP of about .240
He’s 26 years old and has had a fluky season. Good for him.
I didn’t want him to be cut, but I certainly didn’t think at the time signing Jennings and letting Galarraga go was a mistake. There are other guys — Tejeda and Cruz in particular — I’d have whacked before Galarraga, but when you’ve got a 26 year old pitcher on his last option and with no real success above AA (and not a ton of success in AA), I think it is understandable why they’d let him go.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions
well...
we need to ask a very fair question:
why was he so bad here and so much better there?
can we not coach pitchers? hard to believe that chicago/cincinati/detroit can change a guy overnight, so i don’t know if that is the sole reason – although ev made a small change in the offseason that seemed to have a positive impact this season.
is is our evaluation of talent? well, we end up with these guys (draft/trades), so we see their potential at some point.
is it a failure to allow them the time necessary to fully develop? maybe.
there can be a host of reasons why danks/ev/galarraga were better off elsewhere, but there is a very common thread that needs to be addressed. many here seem to cite numerous seemingly relevant reasons why it was good to get rid of all these young guys that were quickly (w/n 1-2 seasons or 1-2 months) better than what we received in return. i am not one of them. this team needs pitching, and other teams are benefiting from “lucky” seasons while we sport the worst ERA in baseball that demoralizes the fans.
at some point it’s a well-established pattern that disproves the whole “luck” theory.
i want more accountability and less excuses.
by sam in so cal on Aug 20, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Well Dank's credits his success to learning the cutter from Buehrle
So, that is more the right place at the right time category. Gallaraga falls more into the fielding adjusted ERA of a 4.30 and a BABIP of .251.
Most of this is more a sample size issue by just looking at the ones that got away and done well.
No one mentions the Juan Domiquez, Ricardo Rodriquez, Matt Riley, Pedro Astacio, Ryan Dreese, Nick Regilio, Franklyn German , Rick Bauer , Daniel Haigwood, or Bill White’s that have been DFA through the years.
no
that’s more of a “a pitching coach (or someone of influence) should have given him the tools necessary to reach his full potential here” category
hoping that your young pitchers pick up pitches/tools from veterans is a completely horrendous approach to player development.
all teams sift through dozens of prospects on a continual basis, but i cannot think of another team that has been fleeced in the manner that the rangers have recently.
to be fair, don’t include ev in this b/c hamilton is playing better than anyone could ever have expected, but i still don’t necessarily think that the rangers got over on cincinnati – it’s a draw. i do think that cincy had a better grasp on his potential than the rangers did.
florida, montreal, etc had economic constraints that precluded them from keeping the likes of pedro martinez and josh beckett, so that doesn’t count.
chris young hasn’t been consistently great, but he’s better than our other alternatives. having the #6 ERA in the AL would look good here (danks), and galarraga is another example (as discussed) that demonstrates our team has some issues.
by sam in so cal on Aug 20, 2008 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions
what stats are you referring too?
Galarraga had his best season with the rangers (in AA). To give Detroit credit for his success is just stupid.
?
i don’t understand your question
are you saying that galarraga’s AA season with the rangers was better than his current season? i don’t follow.
i agree that it is stupid to give detroit credit for a guy that has pitched well from day one when day one was a month after he left texas. they had no time to make any changes that would explain why he was pitching better.
that supports my theory that there is a fairly significant problem that AFAIK has not been addressed.
1. why are some pitchers better when they leave? – markedly better in more than one instance
2. why do we not get this potential out of the pitchers that three other teams have in the last two years? – again not isolated instances
3. do we have a significant problem evaluating the progress of our prospects?
by sam in so cal on Aug 20, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions
when discussing raga
you ask, " why was he so bad here…cant we coach pitchers….?" When was Raga bad here and when was he poorly coached?
oh i see
i was being a smart ass.
i was trying to make a point that someone thought he was disposable (as if he were so bad that there’s no place for him on the team). so bad here that we would let him walk…
i understand your point, and i was not clear.
to my point, the rangers did not bring out his potential and subsequently misjudged his ability.
i should not have said that he was not coached very well.
to your point, if he was so good, why did we let him leave for nothing?
by sam in so cal on Aug 20, 2008 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions
How do you know that the
rangers organization wasn’t instrumental in facilitating his best minor league season (in AA, 07) after his previously miserable 1 1/2 seasons in the minors?
Also, how do you know that the rangers weren’t high on raga? The decision to DFA someone often is decided by the perceived chances that another team will claim the player and the chances that he makes the active roster. Based on Detroits actions after they acquired him, both teams thought the same of him, a player with potential, who merits an assignment to AAA.
maybe detroit is as lucky
as raga with his “lucky” BABIP
I don't necessarily disagree.
But right now, an “average” ML starter would look pretty good around here.
You need to stop turning up your nose
at average major league starters. You used to do that with Doug Davis.
This team could go places if it had a rotation where no one was worse than an average major league starter. When you discard cheap, average major league starters for trash like Jennings, you become the Rangers.
What's the secret to a long life? "I masturbate a lot"-Ernest Borgnine. http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/08/14/icymi-ernest-borgnine-reveals-his-secret-for-everlasting-youth/#onepage
I'm not turning up my nose at an average ML starter
I’m saying that I don’t think he’ll be average going forward.
As for Davis, my point with him was that he wasn’t going to continue to be successful with the type of peripherals he had in Texas. He was much better in terms of his K rate once he left Texas (and Toronto).
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
so how many more starts
does Raga need to prove you right or wrong so that we cease with the vague BABIP references?
This from the Det board.
They do a real good in depth analysis of Galaraga and even they think that alot of this is smoke and mirrors
http://www.blessyouboys.com/2008/8/17/595433/projecting-armando-galarra
As far as BABIP goes, he will adjust to league average in his career.
Everyone does, there is an extremely small contingent, less than 3%, that can maintain a BABIP for an extended career under .296, with only knuckelballer mainting the rate at which Galaraga does. Its just like there is an extremely small contingent of hitters that can maintain year in and year out a BABIP above .320.
Look at it this way, Galaraga has the 3rd lowest BABIP in all of baseball. Only behind Duchescher and Wakefield.
nice but...
it seems that 1/2yr of low BABIP can be explained away but surely not 1 full year? more to the point, “luck” surely has a rational explanation right, like new pitcher on your team, new pitcher in a league, but are there cases when a pitcher has been “lucky” for an entire season? or two? The argument for Raga’s “lucky” year would be strengthened (and be more relevant) if someone compared his first half stats to his second and weakended if there isn’t too great a differential.
I guess the other issue that I have with this line of critique of Raga is that people seem to be arguing against the perception that he is a top rotation guy, but If you never imagined Raga in that capacity then extremely low BAPIP #s wont really make that much of a difference next year in how you evaluate him.
If you saw his ceiling as a #3 and a likley # 5 at the beginning of the season, and he puts up a projected line of 4.25/+27hits/.267BAA (FIP adjusted, compared to this yr with no changes in his other peripherals), then the the “real” Raga (the one who isn’t ptiching this year apparently) and the “lucky” Raga (the one who is) will still be a valuable #4starter. And this doesnt take into account the likelihood that he becomes a better pitcher in his second yr.
Perhaps the BABIP card is simply being (over)played to thwart the appropriation of Raga’s excellent season as a symbol of the failings of the organization generally. Other than that I think he will have a nice season next year as #4 starter and may even throw up #s that are better than projected.
It is entirely possible
to have a full season that just happens to be pretty lucky, just like an entire season can be unlucky. Carlos Silva has been pretty unlucky this year. His ERA is 6.36, but some metrics show him to be about league average. Matsuzaka, Saunders, and Galarraga are some that are living on borrowed time in a sense.
Galarraga will likely be very pedestrian next year, and lots of people will wonder what happened to him.
Few here, certainly not Adam, thinks that Galarraga should have been let go instead of someone like Tejeda. There were other choices. But for people to rank this right up there with the San Diego trade is patently ridiculous.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
It is entirely possible
to have a full season that just happens to be pretty lucky
not if you’re a ranger.
the personnel decision to let the guy go (just before he was ready to be "lucky") isn’t necessarily as bad as “trading” young, but it seems to be a pattern that collectively is borderline concerning.
Galarraga will likely be very pedestrian next year, and lots of people will wonder what happened to him.
i’m sure we’ll be too busy concerning ourselves with how great jennings is to notice how much galarraga has dropped off next year…
that brings up a point – has anyone seen anything in the way of a proposed rotation that includes jennings? i forgot we had him until yesterday – easy to do when a guy singlehandedly ruined our season (obviously kidding – kind of…)
by sam in so cal on Aug 20, 2008 9:41 PM CDT up reply actions
that happens A LOT around here
Perhaps the BABIP card is simply being (over)played to thwart the appropriation of Raga’s excellent season as a symbol of the failings of the organization generally.
by sam in so cal on Aug 20, 2008 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Nah
the beef I have with these discussions of Galarraga (and in reading the really half-cocked stuff at the DMN blog) is that a lot of posters are putting losing Galarraga on a par with losing Chris Young and John Danks. There is just no comparison. To me, it’s much more like losing Tejeda.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
actually that was a dig at you sam
Raga is a back of the rotation starter and neither team expected more than that from him, not even detroit who assigned him to AAA to start the season. I was trying to expose the hype from both Raga camps: those who say he is an accident (the BABIP folks) and the folks like yourself who extoll him as the Ranger’s missing link.
not missing link
better than jennings?
you tell me.
by sam in so cal on Aug 21, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions
+ 1
"Well you didn't tell me that you were a Rangers fan" the psychiatrist says to his patient. "That explains a lot!"
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 20, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions
that's fine and all
but we sure as hell could’ve used his “abberation year” if that is what this is. I don’t think it is, and I don’t think he would’ve posted any better than a 4.00 ERA here, but I think we would all be pretty happy with 12 wins and a 4.25 ERA out of him right now. compared to what, 3 wins, and double the ERA at 8.13? simply disgusting.
"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "
by Walter Sobchak on Aug 20, 2008 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions
you think that our pitching coaches could just look at his slider??
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
Bradley
I don’t know how he would react to this type of offer but I think a low guaranteed money with incentives is the best course of action.
2 year 13 million guaranteed. 1 million dollar bonus at each level of PAs (300,400,450,500,550) brings the potential deal to 23 million over those two years. have an actuator clause where if he reaches 900 PAs over the first two years it triggers a 3rd year with the same incentives but an initial base of 9 million. If he doesn’t reach 900 PAs we would still hold the option in case its due to some freak injury or something that causes him to not reach it.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
If he doesn't react well
Let someone else sign him and take the picks
i was/am a HUGE fan, but i was pushing for a trade
now we have a guy that never plays and that few(er) teams want. i honestly think that there was no market for him, or the team would have moved him.
maybe the rangers could pay him on a game-by-game basis – much like a stripper. just as a strip collects her money at the cage at the end of her shift, MB could stop by JD’s office and get $50,000 per game that he plays.
in all seriousness, his agent (if he’s remotely intelligent) will encourage him to play wherever he gets the highest guaranteed money. the over/under is 100 games each season, and that’s not worth much. i agree with your thinking steve, but no one in their right mind would take that deal.
(feel free to cite numerous examples to the contrary, but it’s so one-sided for a guy that is always hurt and is on his last contract)
by sam in so cal on Aug 20, 2008 4:43 PM CDT up reply actions
That's the kind of deal...
that Board Game will have to take imo. His injury history will obviously be strongly considered by any team offering him a deal.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I've been wondering
how much of a pain in the ass it must be for you to keep writing these daily updates as crappy as this season has turned out to be.
I think the things worth watching and getting excited about are McCarthy’s performance the rest of this year and the performance and development of Feliz/Holland/etc in the minors. If these guys could develop like Shields/Sonnanstine/Price 2.0, there’s your pitching solution long term.
Aikman and Bradshaw?
Please. They are in the same league as Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon as QBs who were taken to the SB by great Defenses and great Running Games.
-DJCahill
Feliz/Holland/Hunter/Harrison
It’s nice seeing the development.
That said, it would be shocking if JD didn’t acquire a substantial, accomplished veteran presence for the front of the rotation this winter. Those young guys deserve the reps without all the pressure to perform.
And let’s not talk about Millwood and Padilla. I wonder how many franchises outside Arlington would think about cutting Kevin this winter…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Aug 20, 2008 10:02 AM CDT up reply actions
I'm for that too. Bring on whomever to improve this team now.
I just think the youth movement will be the foundation for long term success.
Aikman and Bradshaw?
Please. They are in the same league as Trent Dilfer and Jim McMahon as QBs who were taken to the SB by great Defenses and great Running Games.
-DJCahill
by SarasotaRanger on Aug 20, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
might as well put millwood on waivers
maybe a team is dumb enough to claim him
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
i think i wanna give a season to nolan
of running Millwood into the ground with a conditioning regiment before i completely give up on him, but i see what your saying.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
I don't know about shocking
I’d probably place even money on it at best.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 20, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions
Adam is just getting excited
about the season ending so he can get on with his true love of writing about the top 50 Rangers of all time.
What's the secret to a long life? "I masturbate a lot"-Ernest Borgnine. http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/08/14/icymi-ernest-borgnine-reveals-his-secret-for-everlasting-youth/#onepage
MJH
Absolutely crushes it at the Rangers blog.
Required reading, especially for the Sabathia/Sheets peanut gallery.
Go Strangers.
So, are you advocating
doing nothing? Improving the pitching staff is going to take action with cash and/or prospects in trade. There is no reward without risk, and though it’s fashionable right now to say “build from within” that approach also has risks — guys not panning out at the top levels, injuries, misevaluation, etc.
The Rangers are going to need to do all three smartly to contend in either 2009 or 2010. There is a strong core of bats in or entering their primes right now. Try to find the right deal (without going bat shit crazy like SF with Zito, etc.) for a free agent, try to get a young starter through trade, AND patiently groom your farm hands.
In trade the Rangers are probably going to have to accept someone else’s trouble if they’re not willing to give up have of the their top 10 prospects. Greinke, Olsen, Myers, etc. These are the guys that might be available for less than a ridiculous price.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by the way
I enjoyed Mike’s post and agree with all of it, but I’m saying the organization can’t just throw up its hands at the free agent and trade markets.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Not advocating doing nothing
The contracts Sheets and Sabathia sign will have years of dead weight, and everyone knows this. Mike’s also writing about the Carlos Silvas who become dead weight in the first year. Free agency sucks.
But yes, JD needs to acquire a veteran presence via trade, and should use Danny Haren as a model. There was risk there, and his name is Brett Anderson. All for it, and the time is right.
If Sheets comes for something like a 4-year deal, I mean, maybe it would synergize. I’m skeptical, and even if a FA signs, I hope a trade acquisition happens too. Who knows what exactly the difference is? Probably you just get less miles on the arm in pre-FA pitching.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Aug 20, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions
My comment on the DMN blog
advocates doing all 3, sign, trade and develop. I think they need to pursue Sheets – overpay him for 3 or 4 years with incentives, but walk away if he insists in more years. Pursue a trade, understanding that you’re giving up some value to get some in return. Meanwhile, continue being patient with Feliz, Holland et al and don’t bring them up before they are ready.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Trade and develop first
and avoid SP that commands 25 mill over 5 years( or more) who will be 30 for 1/2 (or more) the contract. You make that move only if you are one guy away from contending not if you are next year’s rangers.
The rangers should try to sign a stud left setup guy in FA and trade for their rotation spots. 2 years from now with 5 legit starters and an excess of SP talent in the minors, maybe you do it then, sign a CC to that kind of money.
Tell that
to Young, Kinsler, Hamilton, et al. I’m not saying they shouldn’t develop, but it will be 2010 or even 2011 before the farm is producing that much talent — and that is only IF these guys pan out or aren’t injured. You simply cannot count on 5 starters being home grown.
I’m not advocating giving someone a ridiculous contract. But you sure as helldon’t just throw your hands up at the market and not try hard to land someone. The rotation needs serious help for 2009. Sign one, trade for another. To do too much of either is to lose a lot of money or a lot of talent.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
I don't disagree with your premise
that organization balance is the key for developing a perennial contender – trades, prof/intl FA, development. I guess my premise starts with the unlikelihood that any top pitcher wants to play here everything being equal. We don’t get the guy we want, instead, we are used to bid up the offers from larger market teams.
So, with that in mind, my order of priority is simply different based on past history: Big trades over big free agent signings. I think it is more realistic to expect to trade for a top rotation guy not that one shouldn’t consummate a trade at all.
Having said that: who do you think the rangers have a shot at signing, given their historical lack of success, and what kind of starter(s) should they realistically target (mid rotation guys, fewer years)?
that s/b
“…not that one shouldn’t consummate a FA signing at all.”
I doubt
that pitchers actively “use” the Rangers to drive the price up for the teams they “really want to play for”. It’s more like they really want to play for the team that offers the most money.
I think given their current situation (a chance at contending next year if the rotation can support the offense better) I’d throw a lot of cash at someone like Sheets but for fewer years. Offer him a stunning amount per year, but only for 3 or maybe 4 years. Or 3 years with a vesting option.
The Rangers have a lot of depth-type guys, and/or young guys that can’t lead a rotation yet. They need a front of the rotation guy. Sheets is my pick because Sabathia is going to get 5 or 6 years from someone, and even if Sheets only gives you 120 innings, that’s 120 innings of excellence replacing 120 innings of shit.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Sheets
The money shouldn’t be crippling either. Through the life of his 3-4 year deal, your core will be mainly cheap and under control. They are in a different position than where they were in the past where if they spent big on one guy, they still had 5 other holes to fill with FAs as well.
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 21, 2008 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions
Big difference
Haren joined a rotation in Arizona which already included the likes of Webb, Davis, and Randy Johnson. They decided they wanted another young established arm to build their rotation around. This team’s rotation has ZERO pitchers of that quality, and I think it desperately needs to acquire at least 1 or 2 this offseason.
Do you honestly want to empty the farm system for 2 good young starting pitchers just to avoid signing another potentially bad contract? Theres risk involved either way, but I’d prefer keeping a few of the promising arms in the farm system and overpaying a Sheets or Sabathia (I still wouldn’t offer more than 5 years for either) to pitch here. I think it’s also worth noting that Padilla’s contract expires after next season, and Millwood’s contract could expire as soon as next offseason as well assuming he hasn’t met the innings requirement (I think he needs 180 ip next season).
Arizona
Arizona was a young team last year and made the playoffs. They could afford to use some of their prospects to make a deal. We should be in that position in a couple years if not next year. Guys like Vallejo, Lemon, and Duran will most likely all be fighting for one spot.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Sure
My point was this team needs more than just one pitcher like Haren, and it will probably cost a fortune in prospects to acquire even ONE young starting pitcher of that quality. Maybe I’m a little more pessimistic about the state of the rotation than most though….
You don't need more than one pitcher of Haren quality
If you can get a rotation of 5 average starting pitchers and a good bullpen, you can make the playoffs with a good offense and defense.
Problems is we don’t even have a single “average” pitcher in the rotation (at least from performance this season), the bullpen blows, and the defense…. oh god I can’t take it anymore
And how much are you willing to overpay?
I think either one of those guys is going to be looking for a Zito-esque deal. Do you make that kind of commitment?
No I wouldn't
I agree with you that Sabathia very likely will be looking for a Zito-esque contract, but I have a feeling Sheets will get considerably less in years at least…
Zito deal
After what Zito did with his deal, I don’t think anyone is going to get a Zito-esque deal any time soon. in fact, Zito is a perfect example of how to screw yourself.
1) start by taking a guy with declining peripherals who’s been pitching in a pitchers park
2) sign him long term for big money
3) watch him fail
4) ??
5) Misery
11-13 with an era of 4.53 in san francisco plus
7-15 with an era in the 5’s for the low price of 7 years and $126 million!!!!!
OUCH!!!! Thats the gift that keeps on giving
well Evan Grant made the point
that if we can’t get Sheets or Sabathia, why not go after AJ Burnett? And I don’t disagree. What about a 3 year deal for him, rolling into 2009 with Burnett, Millwood, Padilla, McCarthy (fingers crossed) and Hurley, then bringing up Harrison, Hunter, Feliz, Holland up as required in the 2nd half if we’re in the thick of things and/or injuries take place?
I wouldn’t hate that rotation. however, by all means, go after Sheets and Sabathia.
"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "
by Walter Sobchak on Aug 20, 2008 7:46 PM CDT up reply actions
I think
Ollie Perez might be the best, most obtainable, target.
Appears to be durable, still a little projection left, misses bats, left handed…
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
I'd be ok with that
especially if the bidding for CC, Sheets and Burnett gets out of hand as expected.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Mike and Bob Sturm
just had a nice debate on the piece on Bob’s show. Mike makes a lot of good points, but Bob is right at the core.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 20, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions
Was Mike allowed to speak?
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by LSBUser on Aug 20, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Mike spoke a lot
You’d probably have to ask him as to whether he feels like he was allowed to get everything he wanted out there, but there was a lot of back and forth and plenty of Mike, I think.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Aug 20, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions
Way more Bob than Mike
but I tend to agree Bob theory.
by Anonymous New Guy on Aug 20, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions
That you need
a blend of developing your own talent and buying/trading for what you don’t have…like the Angels.
Also, the teams that spend are consistenly at the top, while teams that don’t have no staying power (i.e. Rockies).
by Anonymous New Guy on Aug 20, 2008 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Isn't garland the only guy they didn't develop?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Yes
but Bob was speaking about the team rather than specifically pitching. The Angels have developed their pitching, but what they lack in other areas they go get. The Rangers should do the same…
Mike made the same point you did, and Bob responded with the ’04 Red Sox rotation.
by Anonymous New Guy on Aug 20, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions
In that case
I agree with Sturm wholeheartedly. You have to do all 3 in balance, but with the foundation of a strong minor league system. You cannot count on any one (or even two) of that three-legged tripod to do all the work.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Bradley
$10M/yr for a part-time player! Not worth it.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
I think Bradley
if completely healthy would be worth $15 million a year. He’ll only play 120 or so games, so you discount it to $10 million. I’ll take that.
If you look at the other big name FA bats – Teixeira, Dunn, Manny – all will aim to make nearly twice that, and Bradley is as good or better than any of them if healthy.
2 year deal + option puts the team in a good situation while we figure out if MaxRam should be a full time DH or can catch part time.
YEP + 1
He won’t be nearly as part-time next year when his knee is better. I’d do the 2 year, it would be awesome to have Milty in there for the next couple years at least.
"Well you didn't tell me that you were a Rangers fan" the psychiatrist says to his patient. "That explains a lot!"
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 20, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
right knee
I don’t think he has missed any games this year due to his surgically repaired right knee. He left last night’s game due to LEFT knee soreness. Also, it is not like he gets hurt and then misses 2 consecutive months. He gets nagging injuries that takes out of the lineup for 3 games, then 7 games, the 4 games, etc. How does that effect the offense? And team?
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
injuries
One of the things that happens alot is that you don’t reinjure the original injury but you injure the opposite appendage. In Bradleys case the left knee. Its because you overcompensate trying to make sure you don’t reinjure the right knee and thus you put more stress on the other one. Its very common.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Exactly
He is what he is. I highly productive hitter that plays about 100 games a year. Be glad that you got most of a year out of him, let him go and take the draft picks. One thing the Rangers are really good at is finding/developing quality hitters. The last thing they need next year is 10-15 mil sitting on the bench.
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions
MaxRam
Assuming that Hamilton and Bradley are in the starting OF for 2009, they are going to need some occasional time away from the OF. Slotting them as DH would mean that MaxRam loses some playing time. Would you be interested in him learning an OF position so that you can keep his bat in the lineup? Or, would you have him catch on those night so that the starting catcher can also get a rest?
by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 20, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Max
Id like Max to play catcher full time in OKC next year instead of putting him at DH as a 24 year old.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
+ 1
"Well you didn't tell me that you were a Rangers fan" the psychiatrist says to his patient. "That explains a lot!"
by LAMuscleFag on Aug 20, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions
that is why I said 2 years is good for MB
I’d like to see MaxRam get a bit more time to hone his skills in AAA, and not be forced to use him next year before he is ready
Catch
If you rest your starting catcher every fifth game for Max, and DH Milton those games (with the occasional day off), that seems pretty win-win for me.
Bradley
If you look at the other big name FA bats – Teixeira, Dunn, Manny – all will aim to make nearly twice that, and Bradley is as good or better than any of them if healthy.
No he isn’t. I think Bradley has always been a good player and has certainly been outstanding this season. However, this season is a career year for him and I doubt he can keep it up. To say he’s as good as Manny or Dunn is not accurate.
One last thing….
I wish people would stop posting “if healthy” when referring to Bradley. He’s not healthy. He’s never been healthy. And now that he’s on the back side of 30 the chances of him ever being healthy are negligible at best.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by LSBUser on Aug 20, 2008 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions
Bradley
should have been traded at the deadline.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
Why not offer him arbitration instead?
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions
Because he might take it?
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by LSBUser on Aug 20, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions
would that be a bad thing?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I believe it would
Then they are gambling on Ole Gimpy to be healthy enough to produce next year. At this point, arbitration is really the only alternative but I would have preferred trading him while his value was high. Hopefully, he thinks too highly of himself to accept and the Rangers can get some compensation for him.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by LSBUser on Aug 20, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
I doubt you would have gotten very much by trading him
Other teams have the same worries that you have
When his value was high..
…I don’t think there was much of a market out there for him.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
That may be true
But it’s not going to get any higher next year either. It’s a frustrating situation to me no matter how I look at it. Like I said, my biggest hope now is that they offer arbitration and he declines.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by LSBUser on Aug 20, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
+1
JD talked a consistent game about wanting to keep him, but he’s a huge, huge bat that can’t field. I tend to believe there wasn’t a market at this year’s deadline.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Aug 20, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions
i dont believe that for a second
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
Why not?
He wasn’t completely healthy at the deadline, and he’s barely played since.
I don’t see why anyone would give up anything that is more valuable then what the Rangers will get by keeping him (production or potential draft picks)…
You can’t even count on the guy to last more than 7 innings anymore..as a DH.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Aug 20, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions
yup it would
that guy is a very talented but ticking time bomb of a physical specimen
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
That's something they really have to do, don't they?
If he accepts, what kind of number are they looking at?
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions
probably 8 mil at the most
based on his injuries this year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I would be behind that
and only that for Bradley
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes
One more year of Bradley would be good.
Anything longer, providing Maximus isn’t traded, which I really hope doesn’t happen, no thanks.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 20, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions
Which catcher(s)
do you trade this offseason?
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Salt and the Jet
Package one of them with Borbon, one of the MIFs, and a pitcher or 2 not named Feliz, Holland, Hurley, Kiker, or Main.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 20, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions
So
you feel pretty confident that Tea is going to hit enough or MaxRam is going to catch enough to be a front line catcher?
Also, Hurley and Kiker are untouchable, you think. I wouldn’t mind including one of them in a deal for an arm with a higher ceiling.
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions
2 part question
1. Yes. I feel very, very confident that one of the two will meet that expectation. I think it is the closest thing to a sure fire hedge bet we can make. I feel confident, albeit less so, that both will overcome their present shortcomings.
2. I’m not calling them untouchable, although obviously I made it seem that way. Poorly expressed on my part. My point was more along the lines of “don’t fucking trade the upper echelon talent, upper minors guys we have right now, unless we are close to robbing someone,” because including those guys in a deal for pitching is taking (in a best case scenario) 2 steps forward, 1 step back.
Including Hurley or Holland, for example, or worse, trading them both, in a deal for Greinke, like I have seen mentioned here more than once, unless the other moving parts are really inferior, is a fundamentally flawed proposition. Kiker I included because a) we’d be selling on the low side, and b) see #2.
My main point is twofold: We have the trade ammo to avoid including our premium, AA and above pitchers. Borbon, Andrus, Salts, Beltre, Vallejo, Lemon, Laird, Duran, etc. That’s a good crop to pick from. Not to mention second tier pitchers like Harrison, Madrigal, Hunter, Feldman, and lower level but still prized pitching commodities such as Castillo, Poveda, Perez, and whatnot. Furthermore, with our core of positional studs a median 3-4 years older, it really amplifies the need to hang on to not just the Feliz’s and the Hollands, but also the Hurleys, BMacs, and Kikers.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 20, 2008 8:05 PM CDT up reply actions
I see
I’m with you on most of that. I have my doubts about Tea, but I see your point.
Definately on board with the pitching. I think we may have enough second tier (in our system anyway) guys to get a nice staff boost. I do think that may work against us actually. If those were our best guys, I think teams would love to have them (and most teams they would be). But when they are 6-12 on the list for us, I think that makes it harder for the other side to pull the trigger.
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions
With respect to TG
what is “hit enough”? On a team replete with offensive stars, some a bit limited defensively, a plus plus defensive catcher (calling games, controlling the running game) is one way to upgrade the team even if he hits 245…
With that in mind
I think either TG or Laird are the most valuable catchers to this team in the future.
I would say
a .750 or so OPS is enough.
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Thank you
for realizing that. We have people here who probably wouldn’t think Mauer hits enough.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
what a crazy labrynthine thread
it started as a bradley topic
Arbitration
You have to offer that don’t you?
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions
well
To me, it’s been a great season (considering the expectations and the bad start). The team was relevant until early August for the first time in 4 years. A lot of rookies came up and helped the team significantly. Kinsler had a breakout year. And then there was Hamilton’s HR derby. On the downside, looks like FOTF won’t get 200 hits this season. And Rangers pitching is as bad as usual. 2009 should be exciting, I think.
Haha You guys should go read
the Frisco game report from the DMN
About a paragraph in, they decide to change Feliz’s name to Perez
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by MayurP on Aug 20, 2008 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Do you think these trades are realistic?
Trade Davis and Teag for Cain
Trade Salty, Borbon, and Duran/Vallejo for Greinke.
Get rid of Millwood, Byrd, Cat, Jennings, Blalock, and Padilla. That will free up a little over 37M. Use that money to resign Bradley and also sign Burrell, and Sheets (that’s about 35M. Keep in mind you only have to add 5M to Bradley’s salary since he’s already making 5M) . Have Hamilton and Burrell as full-time OF’ers. The other OF spot can be Murphy, Boggs, or sometimes Bradley.
We have serious holes at 1B and 3B. Maybe sign Sean Casey for like 1 year and 2M. We can go with Vazquez or Metcalf at 3B (I know, that sucks). Young will eventually move to 3B when Andrus is ready and Smoak will eventually be our 1B which would only make the problem short-term.
I’d hate giving up all those prospects but having Sheets, Cain, and Greinke as your 1-3 is really solid.
Kinsler – 2B – Bats R
Young – SS – R
Hamilton – CF – L
Bradley – DH – S – Better OBP, good not having 3/4 hitters bat R
Burrell – RF – R
Murphy/Boggs – LF – Murph L – Boggs S
Laird – C – R
Casey – 1B – L
Vazquez/Metcalf – 3B – Vaz L – Met – R
Sheets
Cain
Greinke
4-5 = BMac, Feldman, Gabbard, Harrison, or Hurley.
Is that team strong enough for a championship run?
What do you guys think? If the trade isn’t enough to land either Cain or Greinke, I’d add a little bit more for each.
As overrated as Grienke is
if thats all that we would need to trade for him, I’d do that in a second…That being said, I dont think KC does that
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
+1
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on Aug 20, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions
That sounds about right to me, actually
Borbon and Vallejo both have serious value as the second and third chips.
But it’d be all about how they view Salty. If they view him as a slugging star catcher of the future then they do that deal pretty quick. If they look at his struggles this season and think that this is the real Salty, they don’t.
Me I’d be very hesitant to give up Borbon. We’re gonna need a CF here pretty soon and those are just ridiculously expensive on the open market.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
do you really think KC would do a deal with no pitching coming back?
I would imagine the lowest they would accept would be Kiker but that would only be if the other guys were all ML ready. Most likely you are looking at Feliz or Holland having to be included for KC to start talking
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
If Feliz or Holland have to be included
JD better hang up the phone right away because Grienke is not going to be worth either of them
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
Yah they'd do it with no pitching coming back
if the package was strong enough. (There’s a gay joke in there somewhere, isn’t there?)
It’d probably help them save face with the fans if they got a pitcher back in the deal somewhere, but if they get three eventual starters, they’d seriously have to think about it, pitching or no pitching.
Maybe a Kiker/Poveda/NeRa-type, but Feliz/Holland aren’t going anywhere near a Grink trade is my guess. Especially Feliz. He’s the kind of pitching pospect that just doesn’t get moved no matter what. (Think Phillip Hughes, Kershaw and Bucchhollszz)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Greinke
Can someone please explain to me why KC would want to trade this guy away? I know he went crazy 2 or 3 seasons ago, but he seems to have established himself as a pretty solid #2 starter. I can’t understand why they wouldn’t want a package similar to what Oakland got for Haren or Baltimore got for Bedard.
Well
He is only under control for 2 more years. Realistically in those 2 years KC isn’t going to be challenging for any playoff spots. So they may as well trade him while they can get the most for him. The closer he gets to FA the less he brings back in trade, as we have seen with Tex the last couple years.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
As for why a team in their sort of position would want to deal a guy like that, see: Bedard, Erik
And as to why they wouldn’t want a package comparable to the Haren package… They might.
But Haren has been better than the Grink throughout his career.
Although a Salty, Borbon, Kiker package is pretty similar to the package Oakland got for Haren, imo. Depending on whether you still think Salty is a good prospect of course.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions
i like that team besides the Sheets signing
he is going to be one big bust. He relies on a big curve just like Zito did only Sheets is very injury-prone.
We should also sign a couple of big name relievers (not k-rod, another bust who cant even throw is fastball by anyone). because we lead the league in blown saves. imagine where we could be with last years bullpen (75 % save pct. versus 56 % this year)
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
No
First off why would SF be in the market for a catcher? They just drafted Posey with their first pick and gave him a huge bonus.
Second do you honestly tink KC would trade Greinke with no pitching coming back to them at all?
Thirdly why give up Padilla? The guy has been arguably our best pitcher this seaosn and pretty damn good 2 of his 3 season with us. he knows and apparantly doesn’t mind pitching in TBiA. At 11 mil a year he is a bargain almost.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
meant to be a reply to Coolbean
Also dumping Millwood and padilla doesn’t free up any money at all unless you find some schmuck team to take on their contracts. Just releasing them means we still have to pay them. Cat also.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
No we wouldn't release them.
We can have a team take all of Padilla’s salary. As for Millwood, I think there’s a team that would take on all his salary. If the Mets lose out on O. Perez and don’t sign anyone, I can see them taking him. If the Yankees don’t get anyone (which i doubt) I’m sure they would take Millwood’s contract. There’s teams out there that might do it.
I highly doubt a team would take on Millwoods salary
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I forgot about them signing Posey.
We can include other pieces to try to get a deal done.
As for Padilla, he makes about 11M a year. If we were able to get Sheets, Cain, and Greinke. I think it’s a good idea to free up that cash.
Again
Simply releasing him doesn’t free up anything. If we find a team to take his contract that means we probably don’t get anything back in return. Id rather keep Padilla than just give him away no matter who the other people in the rotation are. The guy isn’t fazed by TBiA. He has good stuff and has been about the most reliable guy in the rotation this year.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Why do you keep saying that?
When did I ever mention the word releasing? It would be pretty retarded to release them and pay the remaining contract.
in your comment
all you said was this “As for Padilla, he makes about 11M a year. If we were able to get Sheets, Cain, and Greinke. I think it’s a good idea to free up that cash”. You don’t mention trading him all you mention is freeing up the cash. Alot of people on here don’t understand that contracts are guaranteed and even if you release a player you still owe them the money. Since you didn’t make it clear you understood that I figured you didn’t know. My bad.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Free up the cash
meaning trading him for anything as long as a team takes his salary.
ok
I can see an argument to do that with Millwood but Padilla has been really good this year for the most part. He understands what it takes to pitch in Arlington and has some of the nastiest stuff on the staff. I wouldn’t want them to just give him away for the sake of someone taking his salary.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I agree with what your saying.
I just don’t think Hicks would want to pay Padilla over 10M a year if he’s our 4th starter (that’s if we were able to get the 3 starters which would be tough).
As much as people complain about pitchers leaving here and doing well, the Gambler has this to say
Kenny Rogers thinks ballpark is to blame for Rangers struggles
Between the humidity on some days and the extreme heat more often in the summers, Rogers made the case that this park is tougher on pitchers than any other in the Majors, including Coors Field in recent years once the humidor dampened the effect of thin air on fly balls. “The heat and the humidity are extremely difficult,” Rogers said, “and anybody that doesn’t understand it hasn’t pitched here. They don’t deal with that kind of humidity, where you walk out of the bullpen thinking how tired you are and how fatigued you already are, and then try to pitch in a game. People don’t understand how difficult it is. "I stayed here a long time. It is a combination that is difficult for any type of pitcher. You could be a finesse guy or a power guy, and the difficulty of pitching deep into ballgames and consistently giving your team a chance to win, it’s very hard.” That, he argued, has an effect on the Rangers’ struggle to find consistent pitching seemingly every offseason. “It’s a mental grind every time you’re out here,” Rogers said. “Pitchers that pitch here understand that and I think that’s the lot of the reason that when they have an opportunity to go somewhere else, they do.” — MLB.com
I blame global warming
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
he's right
on some days just sitting there watching a game can be exhausting from the heat and humidity. i can only imagine trying to pitch in that weather.
i HATE baseball indoors i really do, but if there was every an area needing a dome for baseball its dfw.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
a dome
Man I’d love it.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Aug 20, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions
somebody mentioned putting the cube liike the china olympic swim center is done
seems even reasonable.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
Kenny Rogers = Captain Obvious
Also, the heat and humidity causes people to attack cameramen for no apparent reason.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by LSBUser on Aug 20, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
like you havent done the same??
i think we’ve all attacked a cameraman for no reason at some point.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
only when management and front office guys backstab you over contract demands and take their case to the press
then its fair game.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
Kenny
Then why did he keep coming back?
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions
So depth is important
guys are going to get tired, this team will always need to carry 12 or 13 pitchers with more waiting in AAA to help.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
Absolutely
When putting a team together, this team needs to think in terms of a 7 or 8 man rotation. It would be nice if going into next year, they are looking at 2 of Hurley/Harrison/Feldman as their 6th and 7th starters. And don’t have them waiting in the wings as the longma(e)n either. Those guys tend to get jerked around a lot and overused.
Don’t overreact and one more piece that makes sense and definately makes you better. I think that will be available and doable. McCarthy could make everyone feel a lot better with 5 or so decent starts down the stretch.
"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08
by badradiorules on Aug 20, 2008 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions
I know the heat/humidity in Texas is bad
but I’ve lived all over the South and Florida (the Marlins) and Georgia (the Braves) are pretty freaking bad, too, and they have no problems with pitching.
And, having never lived in Houston, is the weather really that much different in Houston than in Dallas? I’d have figured it would be the same if not worse since they’re further south.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions
Houston has a convertidome
and before that, a full dome. The dome is invariably closed.
I think in terms of heat index, I’ve heard that Arlington is the worst.without a dome.
What's the secret to a long life? "I masturbate a lot"-Ernest Borgnine. http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/08/14/icymi-ernest-borgnine-reveals-his-secret-for-everlasting-youth/#onepage
Ah, okay
Didn’t realize they kept the convert-A-dome closed that much in Houston.
And even if Texas is the worst in terms of heat index (which I believe) can it really be that much worse than the hot mugginess of Atlanta or Miami? I’ve never been to the Miami stadium, but I’ve spent some time in both Miami and in downtown Atlanta and they’re both really comparable to the BPiA, imo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions
The convert-A-dome..
….is closed if it is hotter than 80 or so.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
I wish we had a convert-A-dome so freaking bad
Preferably in a scenic spot near downtown Dallas, but I’d settle for Arlington in a pinch.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions
miami and atlanta
have pitcher friendly parks, so maybe the heat there is more bearable, because in general innings don’t last as long.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
I can completely understand
the heat effecting pitchers, but not so much humidity. It’s just not that humid in DFW…
by Anonymous New Guy on Aug 20, 2008 3:25 PM CDT up reply actions
A one or two year deal at $10-12 million per year, with a team option, would be the ideal scenario, I think.
What a very, very bad idea.
I Stole The Red Finger !
Galloway bit
http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/columnists/randy_galloway//index.html
From todays Galloway column:
[Go back to February in Surprise, Ariz., and the general manager needed to open a 40-man roster spot for the newly signed Jason Jennings. OK, so far, that makes sense, even if Jennings didn’t last a month into the regular season due to an injury.
There were three options, all pitchers — Galarraga, Robby Tejeda and Scott (10-run First Inning) Feldman. One would have to go, and that meant gone for good.
The recommendation from the clubhouse was to designate Tejeda for assignment. Jon Daniels mulled it over, and choose Galarraga instead. He was then dealt to Detroit for a player the Rangers would quickly release.
Tejeda would later end up in Kansas City, where he’s pitching OK out of the bullpen. Feldman has been as solid a starter as the Rangers have had. Galarraga, however, has been a stud for the Tigers.
Meanwhile, the coaches in Surprise who wanted to keep Galarraga were both fired this month for the team’s pitching failures.]
Is it widely accepted that Daniels went against his coaches wishes and chose to release Galarraga?
I'm not sure
it’s coming from Galloway though…so…grain of salt.
he’s still hitting better than Saltalasuckia—while playing vastly superior defense...Athos
Like JD said at Newburger day...
Galloway can talk about the rangers when he decides to come out and actually watch a game. That old grumpy man is just miserable. He doesnt know anything about baseball and is about as overly opionated as they get!
I havent seen any evidence to assume
that Daniels overruled his scouts and coaches
we just need a couple of solid pitchers in 2009
before 2010 comes and we have Feliz and Holland up here, and Hunter and Harrison will be ready to be quality big league starters. Then for the 5th guy will hopefully be a pleasant suprise or a veteran accquired
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
Feliz and Holland
You expect them to just come up and dominate from day 1? I think they will run into their fare share of bumps in the road.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
i expect feliz to dominate after a couple of starts, it might take holland a couple of months
but yes they’ll be good
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
Gallaraga dissed the Rangers after the game yesterday
basically the same way Volquez did.
I guess the Rangers make their young pitchers bad..?…?
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
As far as I can tell,
you may have been right the first time.
What's the secret to a long life? "I masturbate a lot"-Ernest Borgnine. http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/08/14/icymi-ernest-borgnine-reveals-his-secret-for-everlasting-youth/#onepage
no he didnt
from the snippet I read, he said nothing about mechanics or pitching coaches etc. Raga has his best year in AA last year in the rangers org not someone elses. He said that he thought the rangers wouldnt have given him a chance to win a rotation spot this year but gave no rational for saying it. Why should he have expected to be in the rotation this year after only pitching a couple games in AAA in 07?
There is obviously a lot of talk about 2009 starting pitching
but this year our bullpen has been horrible too. we’re 13th in the AL in relievers’ ERA and lead the MLB in blown saves. Its a lot easier to improve a bullpen that it is to improve a rotation so i think JD should make a strong effort to have an outstanding bullpen, look at the Rays.
Here is the list of free agent relievers after the 2008 season
Jeremy Affeldt CIN
Tony Armas Jr. PIT
Luis Ayala WAS
Joe Beimel LAD
Joe Borowski CLE
Juan Cruz ARZ
Brendan Donnelly BOS
Scott Downs TOR
Alan Embree * OAK
Scott Eyre CHC
Kyle Farnsworth DET
Casey Fossum TB
Brian Fuentes COL
Aaron Fultz CLE
Tom Gordon * PHI
LaTroy Hawkins HOU
Mark Hendrickson LAD
Trevor Hoffman SD
Bobby Howry CHC
Jason Isringhausen STL
Steve Kline SF
Brandon Lyon ARZ
Damaso Marte * NYY
Tom Martin COL
Julio Mateo PHI
Guillermo Mota MIL
Will Ohman CHC
Hideki Okajima * BOS
Darren Oliver LAA
John Parrish SEA
Chris Reitsma SEA
Dennys Reyes MIN
Juan Rincon CLE
Francisco Rodriguez LAA
Brian Shouse MIL
Jorge Sosa NYM
Mike Stanton * CIN
Salomon Torres * MIL
Derrick Turnbow MIL
Oscar Villarreal ATL
David Weathers CIN
Dan Wheeler TB
Dave Williams NYM
Matt Wise NYM
Jay Witasick TB
on that list i’d really like to get at least 3 of these pitchers: Joe Beimel, Dennys Reyes, Dan Wheeler, Brandon Lyon, and Brian Fuentes.
Then have a bullpen of
CL-Brandon Lyon
SU-Dan Wheeler
7th inning with lefties up-CJ wilson
7th inning with righties up-Madrigal
lefty specialist-Dennys Reyes
Long relief-Josh Rupe or Dustin Nippert
the un-jammer- Franky
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
Never throw money at mediocre relievers
Wheeler and Lyon will be expensive as shit and offer you zero guarantees. No thank you.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions
lol. why in the world would they be "expensive as shit"
and besides, who do we improve our shitty bullpen????
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
You are so stupid
Why do you comment on baseball when you know nothing about baseball?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
That was too mean
Shouldn’t have called you so stupid.
But the question remains.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions
rule #1
never overspend on relief pitchers.
NEVER.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
Ugh
Lyon, Wheeler and Reyes aren’t worth spending big money on.
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions
The open market
You’ll learn about it in 11th grade Economics. Don’t worry.
/harsh
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
“Do you know what stream of consciousness means? In case you don’t I’ll simplify. Don’t respond with every little thing that comes through your head. Type something out, ask yourself "Does this contribute to the discussion". If "yes" ask your self three or four more times. Make real sure it’s worth posting. These morning posts end up around 150-200 posts a day.”
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
Huh?
That makes no sense as a reply there.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 20, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Yep
Write it down, look in the mirror and recite it daily. What I said was harsh, but I was just giving you shit. Mediocre relievers always tend to get way too much money
Danys Baez
B.J. Ryan
Eric Gagne
Scott Linebrink (So far so good, but we’ll see).
Plenty more.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
didnt know Gagen and Ryan where mediocre relievers? i guess 84 saves in a row is just average
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
We're talking post-juice Gagne
Have you looked at his numbers?
You know, the guy who lost his closers gig after a week. The guy with a 6.47 ERA.
Ryan is alright, but he missed all of last year, and upon signing everyone thought the Jays overpaid.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
he has had one bad year, i wouldnt call him mediocre
mediocre is like a ron mahay
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
I give up
For today. You have much to learn young padawan.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
Wow...
If you have taken on him as a student then YOU have much to learn young padawan! =P
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
Okay
What sort of contracts do you think you’d have to offer those guys for them to sign here?
by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Wheeler
I know you’re asking Steal home, I’d expect him to get Linebrink money. Similar age and numbers. Linebrick had better numbers, but also pitched in Petco for a number of years. Wheeler was rough last year but seems to have put it together. I could see him getting 4YR/$20MM from a team desperate for bullpen help like the Brewers or Indians.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
With no closer
And I’m pretty sure most here would prefer to spend the money on a legit closer (K-Rod) or shift that dough to SP. You sign a 30 year old reliever to a 4 year contract with a chunk of change, it usually bites you in the ass.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
K-rod is gonna be a huge bust.
he gets CJ type saves and we see where that has gotten CJ. K-rod has to use curves and sliders to get people out and eventually thats not gonna work
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
I don't want to sign him
And you’re ignoring the points I’m making.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
i wasnt really responding to you, just saying what i thought
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
stream of consciousness
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Aug 20, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions
good point
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Aug 20, 2008 11:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Brewers
They are in it for this year
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
damnit I wasn't finished
I was gonna add that I doubt they spend big this winter. They will probably go into next year with a very young squad and hope for the best while taking the extra 4 picks they will get for CC and Sheets and use that to rebuild with
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

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