New DMN newsletter up

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 12:21 PM CDT

Evan Grant has a new Rangers newsletter up, including fielding a question from me and a question from Jamey, along with dealing with a lot of pitching questions and Hank Blalock issues...

Check it out...

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Response to Jamey's question

When asked who the Rangers may target in a trade for a pitcher, he said

For me, it’s not so much about zeroing in on particular names right now, but on identifying legitimate potential trade partners. Kansas City is one. San Francisco, Toronto and San Diego might all be others.

I think this is smart. The Rangers are stacked with major league ready guys at several positions (catcher, obviously, but also JMJ, Boggs, Murphy in outfield, Davis, Andrus and possibly Blalock in the infield). Those three teams are the types that can use several pieces for their offense right now. While the Giants like having Matt Cain in their rotation, they can’t even compete in their awful division because their offense is so bad that Aaron Rowand is leading the team with homers with 12 (Chris Davis has 12 in less than two months…). The Padres could really use a Taylor Teagarden to throw more than 10% of potential base stealers, not to mention a few bats. Think the Royals would like to have Chris Davis instead of Gload at first?

by JBImaknee on Aug 20, 2008 12:37 PM CDT 0 recs

Jonathan Sanchez? Dustin McGowan?

by Telegraph on Aug 20, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up 0 recs

Sanchez

just got injured I think. I’d much rather offer them more and get Cain if the price wasn’t too ridiculous.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 20, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

If you consider peripherals, Sanchez was just as good (if not better) than Greinke this season

I think his price may be a bit lower too, depending on how smart Sabean is

by Telegraph on Aug 20, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up 0 recs

From what I've read

Greinke has better stuff, and if his peripherals are comparable to Sanchez’, remember Greinke is doing it in the AL.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 20, 2008 9:07 PM CDT up 0 recs

All true, but...

Greinke is under team control for 2 years, I believe Sanchez has 5 years left till FA.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 20, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

Meh

I’d still take Greinke if the price wasn’t too high. The Rangers already have a lot of guys that are back of the rotation starters. I may be wrong, but I just think Greinke has a better chance to be a #2, and he’s a year younger to boot.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 20, 2008 11:16 PM CDT up 0 recs

Sabean's ego is probably still all inflated

cause of that great job he did a few years back when he sold high on Liriano.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 21, 2008 5:49 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yep: 15 day DL

However, he doesn’t seem like a “stud” to me.

Aug 20 An MRI on Sanchez’s left shoulder revealed a mild rotator cuff strain and a tight shoulder capsule, the San Francisco Chronicle reports.

Recommendation: Neither is considered serious, and Sanchez hopes to play catch by the end of the week.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley

by Rodney on Aug 20, 2008 6:44 PM CDT up 0 recs

AL vs NL pitcher

I like what EG said about going after an AL pitcher vs NL. Cain has an ERA+ of 120 in the NL. What would it be in the AL? In RBiA vs AT&T park? Would it be worth the price?

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Aug 20, 2008 12:51 PM CDT 0 recs

Reds

You might be able to add the Reds to the list of teams who are looking to make a trade for some offense. In their fan forum on the MLB website, both Jocketty and Castellini signed an open letter to their fans thanking them for their support, explaining why they traded Dunn and Griffey, and asking for a bit more patience as the team collects more pieces for a successful future. Here are some interesting quotes:

And, we have capitalized on our burgeoning younger players like Joey Votto, Jay Bruce and Johnny Cueto.

Homer Bailey is suspiciously absent from this list. I know that he has had a terrible season and that he has not had to face the DH. However, he does play in a hitter’s park, and he is only 22. It seems that this team has soured on him over the course of the season, and that could work to the Rangers favor if Bailey should become available.

While the run production generated by [Griffey and Dunn] will not be quickly replaced, we chose to endure the short-term ramifications for the sake of building a strong, competitive team for 2009 and many seasons to come.

The one thing the Rangers do have is offense. Add to this the fact that the Reds designated David Ross for assignment (not to mention Bako and his 60 OPS+), and they might be wiling to deal with the Rangers again this offseason.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 20, 2008 1:07 PM CDT 0 recs

good post

The Reds are a good match, and Bailey is a good target that might be available at a discount.

Salty for Bailey seems like a pretty good deal for all involved.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 20, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

reds

rumor was they covet laird. wonder what could be worked out there.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Aug 20, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up 0 recs

the thing is

I just don’t want to have to “throw in” promising young arms to get a deal done.

There are several guys in the middle tier of our pitching prospects that other teams might target as add-ins to a deal, guys like Poveda, Kiker, Hunter, Harrison, etc that could easily come back to bite us in the ass. If at all possible, I’d like to see us hang onto each and every promising young arm, and it is very hard to do that when trying to acquire near ready starters.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 20, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

agree

just dont think laird alone could get it done, was just throwing it out there.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Aug 20, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

But Salts probably could.

Both teams endure risks.

Can Bailey adjust and to the AL and possibly rebound after a horrid year?

Can Salts bat finally break out into the big bat like it should?

I mean the risk on both sides is about fair and I really don’t think any team would be willing to trade for Salts because he really isnt that good since being in the ML.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Aug 20, 2008 3:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

yup

and the greatest part is all those midtier guys given another year of patience will likely be untouchable which is the key.

patience…

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 20, 2008 3:35 PM CDT up 0 recs

The idea of Bailey as a Ranger makes me grin.

Homer’s got great stuff. Fastball can touch 97, killer 12-6, and if he can get a change-up or a third pitch working consistently, he could be a real top-of-the-rotation pitcher, IMO.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Aug 20, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

Don't know...

Don’t know if you can draw much from the fact that Homer Bailey was omitted from the list. His numbers are the worst of the group.

It seems that if the Rangers were going to make a similar list, it would probably not include Jarrod Saltalamacchia, even if management still thought he could be among the best-hitting catchers in the league. Based on Salty’s numbers this year for the Rangers (similar to the case of Bailey with the Reds), it would leave a bad taste in potential season ticket holders for next year.

MLB Commissioner's Office Press Release: Because 23 is now considered old, the physical required before draftees can sign must now include a prostate exam.

by YourNameHere on Aug 20, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah

It is probably just wishful thinking.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 20, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up 0 recs

Don't...

I’m strongly opposed to wishful thinking. I think it can be very dangerous. I’d explain more, but I think I see Jessica Biel crabwalking outside in the rain.

MLB Commissioner's Office Press Release: Because 23 is now considered old, the physical required before draftees can sign must now include a prostate exam.

by YourNameHere on Aug 20, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

Nevermind...

It was just a mailbox.

MLB Commissioner's Office Press Release: Because 23 is now considered old, the physical required before draftees can sign must now include a prostate exam.

by YourNameHere on Aug 20, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

Nolan's influence on development...

Jamey posted a link to an interview of Ryan by Chuck Morgan. Nolan said two specific things related to conditioning.

(1) They want to increase the amount of throwing the pitcher’s do in order to be able to make it through long innings without getting gassed and to pitch deeper into games, which are not mutually exclusive goals. I don’t know if the throwing regimen is the same for both types of endurance.

(2) They want to keep they’re players better hydrated.

I’m surprised he didn’t talk about running. The main thing with young pitchers and throwing more frequently is that he thinks kids throw alot less than when he was a kid, back in the days of very little TV, no video games, and sandlots. But, the highly talented kids of today are on traveling, competitive teams that play 80-120 games per year. I’m not sure I believe the old-timer’s argument in this case.

<a href=" http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200808123295785&c_id=tex" > http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200808123295785&c_id=tex</a>

Go Rangers!

by rooster on Aug 20, 2008 2:13 PM CDT 0 recs

nolan needs to stop living in the past

He needs to face the reality that pitchers and pitching in general is a lot different now than it was when he pitched. Im all for keeping pitchers hydrated, but with all the talk of intense workout regimens and no pitch counts, he needs to actually watch modern, successful major league ball clubs and how they handle pitching.

baseBALLIN!

by kevzta on Aug 20, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

Well

considering how little success our pitching development has shown since Hicks has owned the team, I’m not surprised that Hicks is willing to listen to other folks.

What's the secret to a long life? "I masturbate a lot"-Ernest Borgnine. http://www.bestweekever.tv/2008/08/14/icymi-ernest-borgnine-reveals-his-secret-for-everlasting-youth/#onepage

by DJCahill on Aug 20, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

This is what I don't get.

Are kids panzies now? There was a time in the history of the sport when pitchers finished their own games. I remember when Bobby Witt went nuts and threw like 8 or 9 complete games in a row at the end of one season. I understand that some changes that have been made favorable to hitters make this less likely than in years past (lower mound and such), but as a sport we’ve instituted these artificial pitch counts to save these kids from injury and most seem to get injured anyway. Since your starters are typically the best pitchers on the team, I think the more you can do to keep them in games longer, the better off you are.

by Athos on Aug 20, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

Bobby Witt

He also was never really good, effective or completely healthy after he went nuts and threw all those complete games (including something like 150 pitches on the last day of the season).

Witt and Eddie Correa are a couple of the poster children for the effects of high pitch counts.

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 2:57 PM CDT up 0 recs

Witt

I think you inadvertently made the opposite point on Witt. Witt was a pretty well regarded prospect and then threw a TON of pitches in his first few seasons in the big leagues and never reached his potential.

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by DaheelzCM on Aug 20, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

yes

because pitching is soooo much better these days…

by SteveP on Aug 20, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

Actually,

it might be, considering the offense around these days.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 20, 2008 9:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

Nolan is right,

The best pitchers ever in baseball go deep into a game, throw many complete games, and really don’t have pitch counts. Examples of current players are CC, and Hallady.

Nolan is just saying that in order for us to have a successful pitching staff, these kids and vets really need to develop into better players. Weed out the ones that can’t handle it.

And pitch counts only work with players that are extremely young and risky to loose, like Joba for example.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Aug 20, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

That doesn't make sense

Halladay does have a pitch count. He’s thrown more than 120 pitches in a game only twice this year, and hasn’t thrown more than 130.

Last season, he threw more than 120 pitches 4 times, and never more than 126.

In 2006, Halladay threw more than 110 pitches only twice, and never more than 118.

He’s not out there throwing 130-150 pitches every start. And I don’t believe he was consistently throwing 120-130 pitches per start in the minors.

The idea that the good pitchers are the ones who can handle a high pitch count, and we need to “weed out the ones that can’t handle it,” is how you end up with a bunch of young pitchers on the d.l., and the occasional freak like Livan Hernandez making it.

by Adam J. Morris on Aug 20, 2008 4:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

Did Roy ever have to throw more pitches AJM?

I think a manager knows when a pitcher is done throwing in a game and if he can go out and finish it. Who has even stated that Roy was on a pitch count? Your stats mjean nothing to me I guess. I will tell you this though, A pitcher who throws more than 100 pitches is probably more at risk for having an injury. I am not denying that. But Roy throwing more pitches in a game has made him a stronger starter.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Aug 20, 2008 7:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

I have to think

that Ryan also doesn’t want pitchers throwing 20 pitches an inning. Get them out and sit down. That’s how you go deep in games.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 20, 2008 9:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

Throwing More

I thought the general assumption is that kids are throwing more now due to year-round baseball and what you already mentioned. I’ve seen people justify this idea by the number of Tommy John surgeries for young kids.

As for the first idea, there was a really good discussion about this yesterday at BTF. Here are some quotes that I like:

Young pitchers should pitch until they begin to tire (if they get knocked out of the game, they should go to the bullpen and throw more pitches until they tire), with the goal being to gradually build up their endurance. Their pitch counts should be gently pushed upwards until the pitcher reaches their natural limit (the point at which they’re getting tired around the same pitch count every time, rather than “around 100 pitches”. If a 21-year-old kid has thrown 105 pitches and shows no signs of being tired, then let him throw some more pitches.

My point isn’t that guys should throw 130 pitches, or that you should push a guy to throw 130 pitches, it’s that when you don’t let your young pitchers throw more than 100 pitches, you end up developing pitchers who can’t throw more than 100 pitches. You shouldn’t EVER say, “this is how many pitches we’re going to make this guy throw” — you merely increase his workload gradually until you find what his natural limit is. It requires more talent as a coach to pull off, because you need to start picking up indications that the pitcher is tiring rather than looking at a clicker.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 20, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up 0 recs

That is a very common sense thing

…but was Kerry Wood tired in highschool? Or did the coach ignore fatigue and overwork him all the time? I have to think that Wood was ready to go every time he went out there…or at least believed he was ready to go. I think it sounds good in theory but practically, it may be a little more sticky.

by FuturePants on Aug 20, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

Overworked

I’ve seen several references to how the highschool coach abused Wood’s arm in the a tournament. Wood threw a crap load of pitches in one game, and the coach turned right around and used him in the next game (championship game I think). The way the people talked about it, it seems like ti was a pretty well know fact. I’ve searched for some story with details, but have yet to find anything.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 20, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

Okay...

I guess I never looked that hard in the first place. I was able to find this:

Two days before the draft, Kerry threw 175 pitches in a doubleheader with Grand Prairie’s playoff hopes on the line. The Chicago brass was in an uproar.

Kerry, Garry and coach McGilvray all defended the workload, explaining that this wasn’t the first time the youngster had logged that many innings in a single day. The Cubs, however, weren’t satisfied until they did their own battery of tests on Kerry. Convinced that the 17-year-old was healthy, they handed him a $1.2 million signing bonus.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 20, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up 0 recs

the terms "young guy" and "kid"

are used rather loosely. Nolan of course is talking about grown men that are professional baseball players, not teenage school ballers. ASMI has a guideline for youth pitchers that tops out at 105 pitches for a healthy 18 year old that I agree with.

by SteveP on Aug 20, 2008 3:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yup

A couple days ago I was reading something about Pedro’s notorious 2003 ALCS game. What made me think about it from your post wasn’t that Pedro exceeded the “magic” 100 pitches, but that 100 pitches happened to be Pedro’s number. Different numbers for different guys. Makes sense to figure out what that is.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Aug 20, 2008 3:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

there was already

a torrid thread on this issue…not worth rehashing.

by Goyogringo on Aug 20, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

Mostly I made the post in order to put Nolan's words out there, rather than

continuing this whole discussion based upon what people think Nolan is doing. Nolan didn’t say much, but clearly the young guys will be throwing more often and maybe sessions with longer periods of higher intensity during the offseason.

He’s also connected that type of regimen to the goal of improving their pitcher’s ability to get through and absorb those long, drawn out innings when things are out of sync. I think that provides two pieces of information that aren’t getting out via the traditional mass media outlets.

Go Rangers!

by rooster on Aug 20, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up 0 recs

I listened to that chat session

and there were no proposed, detailed systematic changes, nothing but vague allusions to higher pitch counts. I’ll expend my blog energy when those systematic changes are announced and implemented. My prediction: there will not be extensive changes in the way the rangers develop ptichers based on a Ryan-based plan that supercedes the plan in place and the people in place who are in charge of player development. Ryan has no expertise in this area and if he gains some sort of undue influence on this aspect of the organization, it will be a sad day…

by Goyogringo on Aug 21, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up 0 recs

Ryan

does not have some magic beans knowledge of pitching that no one else in the universe has. I can’t imagine that he will somehow come up with something and suddenly all of the pitching coaches in the system drop their jaws.

More likely the sheer number of talented prospects in the system will start producing results in the next couple of years. People will immediately attribute this to the “Ryan effect”.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 21, 2008 12:16 AM CDT up 0 recs