Minors - 08/28
Late game tonight so there's plenty of time to wank over Dutch if he performs well.
Clinton - Murphy (!!!) - 6:30pm
Bakersfield - Swanson - 9:00pm
Frisco - Left-handed Jesus - 7:00pm
Spokane - Nevarez - 8:30pm
I need to fill space. Jamey came out with another trade scenario for Greinke today: Salty, Hurley/Harrison, JMJ/Cruz, Arias and a lower level prospect for Greinke/Ramirez. There's a monstrous 15 page post about it in the Newberg forums. Would any of you do that trade? My first reaction was "effing no".
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Comments
i posted a similar trade proposal over at Royals Review
i would do Hurley, Davis and Saltalamacchia for Greinke
Royal homers seem pretty mixed about it.
by oc on Aug 28, 2008 6:57 PM CDT 0 recs
Wha???

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on
Aug 28, 2008 7:18 PM CDT
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it's a fair deal.
losing Saltalamacchia doesn’t hurt us. basically, we lose a bat, and gain a solid arm.
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 7:23 PM CDT
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Does the increase in Greinke for the next two years...
offset the loss of Hurley the following 4 years?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Aug 28, 2008 7:25 PM CDT
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it's worth the gamble.
…in theory… Matt Harrison, Neftali Feliz and Derek Holland should all be established by then.
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 7:29 PM CDT
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hell yes it does
the question is does the increase in greinke for the next 2 years offset the loss of davis for the next 4+
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on
Aug 29, 2008 8:54 AM CDT
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I don't know
I’m not against trading Davis but if we were to trade him I’d want someone that’s more of a sure thing than Greinke.
"Mr. Hicks, you watch, I'm going to be a leader on this team." Kinsler
by sprite on
Aug 28, 2008 7:26 PM CDT
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That kind of logic leads to Adrian Gonzalez being included in a trade for Adam Eaton and Aki Otsuka.
by LiamP on
Aug 28, 2008 7:40 PM CDT
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lost ya oc
no clue what that meant.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on
Aug 28, 2008 11:19 PM CDT
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thats a stupid way to look at it
rather we need salty or not, he still has value. you dont throw someone into a trade because you dont think you need him.
~5 years of Davis, Salty and Hurley, all real prospects, for 2 years of greinke? Greinke is not a cy young quality pitcher. if you are giving that kind of value for 2 years of a pitcher it better be an actual ace.
if you deal that valule for pitching, do it for multiple high quality pitching prospects.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on
Aug 28, 2008 7:47 PM CDT
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6 years of Davis and Hurley
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Aug 28, 2008 7:49 PM CDT
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i never said he was a "throw-in"...
…but, because of our catching depth, losing him isn’t that big of a blow.
that’s not a “stupid” way of looking at it.
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 7:56 PM CDT
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i might as well ask since i make stupid points anyway...
…why do you think Greinke is not a Cy Young quality pitcher?
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 8:12 PM CDT
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Because he has a 5.03 ERA in the 2nd half
he has a career GB% of 38%, he gives up too many HRs despite playing in a HR suppressing park.
He’s a decent 2, good 3 in our park in front of our defense.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 8:20 PM CDT
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and
because he has a history of emotional trauma, a history of inconsistency, no great history of durability, and he pitches in front of a pretty good outfield defense, and he still allows too many hits per nine.
Seriously, he’s 1.50 WHIP, 4.00+ FIP guy here. He’d be mediocre, and throughly not worth Davis alone, let alone Saltalamacchia, Hurley and Davis.
If the deal is Teagarden+JMJ+Hurley+someone like Feldman or a young guy in A or A+, that’s fine. But if you want to deal 2 major-ready players and an almost majors-ready pitcher, that’d be dumb, stupid, and equivalent of repairing your sinking ship by scavenging your own mast. Yeah, you’re not sinking anymore, but you’re still going nowhere.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 8:34 PM CDT
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What makes you think he'd suck so thoroughly here?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Aug 28, 2008 11:07 PM CDT
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38% career GB
allows more than a hit an inning. The Ks and walks are nice, but he’s hittable and homer prone. He’d be especially homer-prone here.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 29, 2008 12:21 AM CDT
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Why especially here?
The park plays pretty neutral from everything I’ve heard. I have no idea why his WHIP would jump a full .2, but I assume you do and if you don’t want to tell me that’s okay.
The point is he’s a young arm with a track record of being an above average innings eater and good health when his head is on straight (which apparently is a pretty sure thing now that he got the help he needed).
He’s not perfect, but if you want perfect then I don’t know what to tell you.
Greinke is a good pitcher.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Aug 29, 2008 12:30 AM CDT
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50
at least.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on
Aug 29, 2008 7:50 AM CDT
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Seriously
I can’t get over how bad of a deal this would be.
Look at what Johan Santana got the Twins – a toolsy OF and the prospect pu-pu platter
Danny Haren, a guy who was under a cheap, team-friendly contract for 4 years, and a guy who had true ace stuff and peripherals got what was at the time a good prospect with disappointing numbers (Gonzalez), a good prospect with disappointing stuff (Anderson) and a platter of back of the rotation starters, lottery tickets, and Aaron Cunningham.
CC Sabathia got Matt LaPorta, and nothing else.
Matt Garza, a younger guy under more team control, got the Twins Delmon Young
Eric Bedard got Adam Jones, Tillman and the uninspiring Butler.
All of those guys are better than Greinke, and 3 of those guys were under team control for longer. That’s the value of Zack Greinke, not Davis+Salty+Hurley.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 8:40 PM CDT
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my basic thinking:
- Davis will be moved for Smoak
- Salty will be moved anyway
- Greinke is better than Hurley
i just happen to think that Greinke is (or will be) better than most here believe he is.
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 8:51 PM CDT
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For what reason?
He’s a poor fit. Never mind that
1. Smoak is also a year or so away, at least
2. A catcher will be moved, most likely Laird + one of Salty/Teagarden
3. Hurley is under team control for longer than Greinke
The only difference right now, between Greinke and Hurley is the ability to consistently command the breaking stuff. Stuff wise, they’re not very different.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 8:52 PM CDT
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He throws
90-93, the same as Hurley.
He has more movement on his fastball.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 8:55 PM CDT
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come on...
…he was hitting 95, 96 consistently on Tuesday.
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 8:56 PM CDT
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and he hits 88-90
a lot too. Maybe the mph was up there, but he’s not a true power guy. He’s a command, location guy in the mold of Radke.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 8:57 PM CDT
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Um, that's a rather ridiculous comp
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Aug 29, 2008 12:35 AM CDT
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How about a Moose Haas comp?
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/greinza01.shtml
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on
Aug 29, 2008 1:34 AM CDT
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Pretty good
probably better than Radke. Same idea, though, nice K rates, nice BB rates, too many hits, too many HRs for what we’re giving up.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 29, 2008 2:28 AM CDT
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hence,
his avg fastball is 92.3 this year. Which is good, but not considerably better than Hurley
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 9:00 PM CDT
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his peripherals suggest he's matured the last couple of seasons...
i like the guy.
…you don’t.
moving on…
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 9:03 PM CDT
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Fangraphs has Grink at 93.2 and Hurley at 90.2
And they have Grink rated as the 13th highest avg fb velo among their qualifying starters.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Aug 29, 2008 12:34 AM CDT
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Danny Haren, a guy who was under a cheap, team-friendly contract for 4 years, and a guy who had true ace stuff and peripherals got what was at the time a good prospect with disappointing numbers (Gonzalez), a good prospect with disappointing stuff (Anderson) and a platter of back of the rotation starters, lottery tickets, and Aaron Cunningham.
anderson – you DO realize that there are some schools of thought that he may be better long term than cahill? (i believe read somewhere on BP ther was a guy – golstein? who liked him long term as much/better than cahill)
anderson is a damn good prospect
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on
Aug 29, 2008 8:56 AM CDT
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At the time
he was a good prospect, but not the 91 mph prospect he is now. His lost weight really uped his stuff and made him a top 20 guy
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 29, 2008 1:15 PM CDT
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yes he was a good prospect
he was seen as a good prospect since the day he was drafted (father is frank anderson – former pitching coach at UT and i believe current HC at Oklahoma state)
he was seen as a 1st rd (1st half IIRC) arm who dropped because he had committed to playing at OSU under his father and most people thought there was no way he would give that up
he was traded as maybe the #2 in that deal behind gonzalez
check out his stats, pretty good before this year iirc but he was one of those guys that fly under the radar
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on
Aug 29, 2008 2:30 PM CDT
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Holy crap
I wouldn’t do Davis alone.
Pretty clearly the first time he has ever looked at a web site. "And there are readers' comments at the bottom! And advertisements for products! And best of all, I won a free iPod!"
-Ken Tremendous on Mike Downey.
by BudLight on
Aug 28, 2008 7:25 PM CDT
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that trade proposal
made me throw up in my mouth. that is three players at the very beginning of solid to spectacular careers for a player with an ERA in the high 3’s and who missed time two years ago from depression. i am not sure if there is a pitcher in baseball i would give up that much for.
by clark on
Aug 28, 2008 8:14 PM CDT
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with the exception of a catcher
i don’t see the need to trade anyone. let’s try to turn a catcher into a solid young pitcher (looking at Florida or Boston for help here) and then sign a FA, and then let’s follow Tampa’s lead and keep our young core and watch them develop.
by clark on
Aug 28, 2008 8:16 PM CDT
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honestly
i think davis alone could land us a very solid young pitcher this offseason. look back at that young/garza trade…and Davis actually hits HRs.
by clark on
Aug 28, 2008 8:45 PM CDT
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The only person we need to trade
is 1 or 2 catchers. Preferably Laird +.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 8:54 PM CDT
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I dont understand why
people keep bringing up his depresion. Josh Hamilton overcame his demons.
by Steele Rockman on
Aug 29, 2008 12:49 AM CDT
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turrible
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on
Aug 28, 2008 8:39 PM CDT
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Davis and Salty each
could highlight a trade that brings back a ML pitcher. Waaaayyyyyyyy tooooooo much for Greinke.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on
Aug 28, 2008 9:10 PM CDT
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do either bring back a top-of-the-rotation arm by themselves?
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 11:53 PM CDT
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is grienke a guaranteed top of the rotation guy?
no.
i think the salty/davis/hurley or another arm wouldnt be too terribly worse than the package the twins got for johan
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on
Aug 29, 2008 8:58 AM CDT
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huh?
Salty/Davis/Hurley is a better package than what the Twins got for Johan.
I think Salty would be roughly equivalent value to Gomez, Hurley slightly better value than Mulvey, and Davis has tons more value than Deolis Guerra.
And of course, Johan is worth a lot more than Greinke. KC would be making out like bandits in that deal.
Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.
by tricer on
Aug 29, 2008 9:34 AM CDT
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Sorry OC...
I know you are really getting bashed on this one so I’ll try to be nice about it. I wouldn’t do much more than Davis alone for Greinke.
I’ve said before something like Salty, Harrison, JMJ/Cruz, and Arias or a low level guy would be about as high as I go.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on
Aug 28, 2008 9:27 PM CDT
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LSB DOGPILES!!
"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants
by Chase Irwin on
Aug 28, 2008 10:15 PM CDT
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Would prefer to deal TT and Hurley with JMJ/Cruz and Arias
by laxtonto on Aug 28, 2008 7:09 PM CDT 0 recs
sorry...
…if i’m Dayton Moore, the first person i’m asking about Davis.
realistically, i don’t think we would come away with Greinke without giving him up.
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 7:17 PM CDT
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If you were Dayton Moore
where would you put Davis?
He has Butler, Gordon, Hosmer, Teahan, Kia’However the hell you spell it for 1B/DH/3B.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 8:22 PM CDT
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Butler DH
Gordon 3B
Teahen sucks
Hosmer a couple of years out
Davis > Ka’aihue
by oc on
Aug 28, 2008 8:25 PM CDT
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But it's dumb
to spend your money/talent on something when you have a good alternative replacement. Whether or not Davis>Kai’aihue is not the question, the question is does the replacement of Kai’aihue with Davis justify giving up Greinke?
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 28, 2008 8:31 PM CDT
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Yes, it most definitely would justify it
Davis is really, really good.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Aug 28, 2008 11:01 PM CDT
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I think
I am getting a little more excited about Holland than Feliz right now. Both impressive, but Holland has been sick since hitting AA
Nippert=Cy Young
by RA Dickey on Aug 28, 2008 7:29 PM CDT 0 recs
Don't get me wrong, I love them both
but Holland is 3-0, with a 0.90 ERA, 0.70 whip, 22K, 20 IP, OPP BA .152
Gotta love the future
Nippert=Cy Young
by RA Dickey on
Aug 28, 2008 7:35 PM CDT
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20 yr old and 21 yr old
Feliz was getting innings limited, if he had been allowed to really show his stuff, would have even more dominating stats. But, no doubt the future is bright.
by gamerabcd on
Aug 28, 2008 7:43 PM CDT
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UPDATES:
Clinton
beltre 0-4
moreland 2-4 2b
smoak 2-4 2b
Hamburger 1ip 1h save
Bakersfield
Osuna 2B 2-3 1bb 12b
lemon 2-4
Tufts 3ip 3h 1bb
Frisco
Moonshine CF 3-5 2b 2rbi
The King 0-5
Vallejo 2B 1-4
Laughter (BS, 5)(L, 2-3) sucked 0.2ip 3h 4r 4er 2bb
OKC
MadMax 1-3 1bb
Lizard sucked
Fukusucky sucked
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on
Aug 28, 2008 11:37 PM CDT
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Holland thru 2IP
2IP, 1 H, 0R, 3 K
25 pitches, 20 strikes
Nippert=Cy Young
by RA Dickey on Aug 28, 2008 7:37 PM CDT 0 recs
59 pitches thru 4
5 Ks, 2 H and a BB. ERA in AA thru 24 inning: .75
by clark on
Aug 28, 2008 8:11 PM CDT
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04 and 05 intl. FA signings/signing bonuses
Does anyone have a complete list of our 04 and 05 intl fa signings and what bonuses they received?
by Goyogringo on Aug 28, 2008 7:53 PM CDT 0 recs
all the damage done
on a HR. most important thing…two baserunners in five innings.
by clark on
Aug 28, 2008 8:09 PM CDT
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OKC
With the exception of M. Ramirez, that line-up is ugly.
by T Coleman on Aug 28, 2008 8:19 PM CDT 0 recs
True
Compared to looking at the other farm teams, just not a lot to be excited about. I guess that is because they are all in Arlington.
by T Coleman on
Aug 28, 2008 8:25 PM CDT
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Alot of teams
have spares in Triple A and most of their true prospects lower ends. Maybe one true stud but thats all.
by gamerabcd on
Aug 28, 2008 8:26 PM CDT
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astros used to basically jump their guys past AAA
ESPECIALLY pitchers (kirk saarloos, c hernandez, etc)
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on
Aug 29, 2008 9:00 AM CDT
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