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Minors - 08/28

Tiny by LiamP on

Late game tonight so there's plenty of time to wank over Dutch if he performs well.

 

Clinton - Murphy (!!!) - 6:30pm

Bakersfield - Swanson - 9:00pm

Frisco - Left-handed Jesus - 7:00pm

OKC - Lizard - 7:00pm

Spokane - Nevarez - 8:30pm

 

I need to fill space.  Jamey came out with another trade scenario for Greinke today:  Salty, Hurley/Harrison, JMJ/Cruz, Arias and a lower level prospect for Greinke/Ramirez.  There's a monstrous 15 page post about it in the Newberg forums.  Would any of you do that trade?  My first reaction was "effing no".

 

Poll
Would you trade Salty, Hurley/Harrison, JMJ/Cruz, Arias and a low level prospect for Greinke and Ramirez.
Yes
50 votes
No
39 votes

89 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 159 comments

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Comments

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i posted a similar trade proposal over at Royals Review

i would do Hurley, Davis and Saltalamacchia for Greinke

Royal homers seem pretty mixed about it.

by oc on Aug 28, 2008 6:57 PM CDT   0 recs

Wha???

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley

by Rodney on Aug 28, 2008 7:18 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's a fair deal.

losing Saltalamacchia doesn’t hurt us. basically, we lose a bat, and gain a solid arm.

by oc on Aug 28, 2008 7:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Does the increase in Greinke for the next two years...

offset the loss of Hurley the following 4 years?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 28, 2008 7:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

it's worth the gamble.

…in theory… Matt Harrison, Neftali Feliz and Derek Holland should all be established by then.

by oc on Aug 28, 2008 7:29 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hell yes it does

the question is does the increase in greinke for the next 2 years offset the loss of davis for the next 4+

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 8:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know

I’m not against trading Davis but if we were to trade him I’d want someone that’s more of a sure thing than Greinke.

"Mr. Hicks, you watch, I'm going to be a leader on this team." Kinsler

by sprite on Aug 28, 2008 7:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

lost ya oc

no clue what that meant.

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 28, 2008 11:19 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

thats a stupid way to look at it

rather we need salty or not, he still has value. you dont throw someone into a trade because you dont think you need him.

~5 years of Davis, Salty and Hurley, all real prospects, for 2 years of greinke? Greinke is not a cy young quality pitcher. if you are giving that kind of value for 2 years of a pitcher it better be an actual ace.

if you deal that valule for pitching, do it for multiple high quality pitching prospects.

the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is

by DSheppard on Aug 28, 2008 7:47 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

6 years of Davis and Hurley

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 28, 2008 7:49 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i never said he was a "throw-in"...

…but, because of our catching depth, losing him isn’t that big of a blow.

that’s not a “stupid” way of looking at it.

by oc on Aug 28, 2008 7:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i might as well ask since i make stupid points anyway...

…why do you think Greinke is not a Cy Young quality pitcher?

by oc on Aug 28, 2008 8:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Because he has a 5.03 ERA in the 2nd half

he has a career GB% of 38%, he gives up too many HRs despite playing in a HR suppressing park.

He’s a decent 2, good 3 in our park in front of our defense.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:20 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and

because he has a history of emotional trauma, a history of inconsistency, no great history of durability, and he pitches in front of a pretty good outfield defense, and he still allows too many hits per nine.

Seriously, he’s 1.50 WHIP, 4.00+ FIP guy here. He’d be mediocre, and throughly not worth Davis alone, let alone Saltalamacchia, Hurley and Davis.

If the deal is Teagarden+JMJ+Hurley+someone like Feldman or a young guy in A or A+, that’s fine. But if you want to deal 2 major-ready players and an almost majors-ready pitcher, that’d be dumb, stupid, and equivalent of repairing your sinking ship by scavenging your own mast. Yeah, you’re not sinking anymore, but you’re still going nowhere.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

38% career GB

allows more than a hit an inning. The Ks and walks are nice, but he’s hittable and homer prone. He’d be especially homer-prone here.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 29, 2008 12:21 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Why especially here?

The park plays pretty neutral from everything I’ve heard. I have no idea why his WHIP would jump a full .2, but I assume you do and if you don’t want to tell me that’s okay.

The point is he’s a young arm with a track record of being an above average innings eater and good health when his head is on straight (which apparently is a pretty sure thing now that he got the help he needed).

He’s not perfect, but if you want perfect then I don’t know what to tell you.

Greinke is a good pitcher.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 29, 2008 12:30 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

50

at least.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 7:50 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Seriously

I can’t get over how bad of a deal this would be.

Look at what Johan Santana got the Twins – a toolsy OF and the prospect pu-pu platter

Danny Haren, a guy who was under a cheap, team-friendly contract for 4 years, and a guy who had true ace stuff and peripherals got what was at the time a good prospect with disappointing numbers (Gonzalez), a good prospect with disappointing stuff (Anderson) and a platter of back of the rotation starters, lottery tickets, and Aaron Cunningham.

CC Sabathia got Matt LaPorta, and nothing else.

Matt Garza, a younger guy under more team control, got the Twins Delmon Young

Eric Bedard got Adam Jones, Tillman and the uninspiring Butler.

All of those guys are better than Greinke, and 3 of those guys were under team control for longer. That’s the value of Zack Greinke, not Davis+Salty+Hurley.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

my basic thinking:
  • Davis will be moved for Smoak
  • Salty will be moved anyway
  • Greinke is better than Hurley

i just happen to think that Greinke is (or will be) better than most here believe he is.

by oc on Aug 28, 2008 8:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

For what reason?

He’s a poor fit. Never mind that

1. Smoak is also a year or so away, at least
2. A catcher will be moved, most likely Laird + one of Salty/Teagarden
3. Hurley is under team control for longer than Greinke

The only difference right now, between Greinke and Hurley is the ability to consistently command the breaking stuff. Stuff wise, they’re not very different.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

He throws

90-93, the same as Hurley.

He has more movement on his fastball.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:55 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

come on...

…he was hitting 95, 96 consistently on Tuesday.

by oc on Aug 28, 2008 8:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

and he hits 88-90

a lot too. Maybe the mph was up there, but he’s not a true power guy. He’s a command, location guy in the mold of Radke.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:57 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

How about a Moose Haas comp?

http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/greinza01.shtml

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Aug 29, 2008 1:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Pretty good

probably better than Radke. Same idea, though, nice K rates, nice BB rates, too many hits, too many HRs for what we’re giving up.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 29, 2008 2:28 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

hence,

his avg fastball is 92.3 this year. Which is good, but not considerably better than Hurley

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 9:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Fangraphs has Grink at 93.2 and Hurley at 90.2

And they have Grink rated as the 13th highest avg fb velo among their qualifying starters.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 29, 2008 12:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Danny Haren, a guy who was under a cheap, team-friendly contract for 4 years, and a guy who had true ace stuff and peripherals got what was at the time a good prospect with disappointing numbers (Gonzalez), a good prospect with disappointing stuff (Anderson) and a platter of back of the rotation starters, lottery tickets, and Aaron Cunningham.

anderson – you DO realize that there are some schools of thought that he may be better long term than cahill? (i believe read somewhere on BP ther was a guy – golstein? who liked him long term as much/better than cahill)

anderson is a damn good prospect

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 8:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

At the time

he was a good prospect, but not the 91 mph prospect he is now. His lost weight really uped his stuff and made him a top 20 guy

by FirebatM3 on Aug 29, 2008 1:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

yes he was a good prospect

he was seen as a good prospect since the day he was drafted (father is frank anderson – former pitching coach at UT and i believe current HC at Oklahoma state)

he was seen as a 1st rd (1st half IIRC) arm who dropped because he had committed to playing at OSU under his father and most people thought there was no way he would give that up

he was traded as maybe the #2 in that deal behind gonzalez

check out his stats, pretty good before this year iirc but he was one of those guys that fly under the radar

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 2:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Holy crap

I wouldn’t do Davis alone.

Pretty clearly the first time he has ever looked at a web site. "And there are readers' comments at the bottom! And advertisements for products! And best of all, I won a free iPod!"
-Ken Tremendous on Mike Downey.

by BudLight on Aug 28, 2008 7:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

that trade proposal

made me throw up in my mouth. that is three players at the very beginning of solid to spectacular careers for a player with an ERA in the high 3’s and who missed time two years ago from depression. i am not sure if there is a pitcher in baseball i would give up that much for.

by clark on Aug 28, 2008 8:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

with the exception of a catcher

i don’t see the need to trade anyone. let’s try to turn a catcher into a solid young pitcher (looking at Florida or Boston for help here) and then sign a FA, and then let’s follow Tampa’s lead and keep our young core and watch them develop.

by clark on Aug 28, 2008 8:16 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

honestly

i think davis alone could land us a very solid young pitcher this offseason. look back at that young/garza trade…and Davis actually hits HRs.

by clark on Aug 28, 2008 8:45 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The only person we need to trade

is 1 or 2 catchers. Preferably Laird +.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I dont understand why

people keep bringing up his depresion. Josh Hamilton overcame his demons.

by Steele Rockman on Aug 29, 2008 12:49 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

turrible

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Aug 28, 2008 8:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Davis and Salty each

could highlight a trade that brings back a ML pitcher. Waaaayyyyyyyy tooooooo much for Greinke.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Aug 28, 2008 9:10 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

is grienke a guaranteed top of the rotation guy?

no.

i think the salty/davis/hurley or another arm wouldnt be too terribly worse than the package the twins got for johan

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 8:58 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

huh?

Salty/Davis/Hurley is a better package than what the Twins got for Johan.

I think Salty would be roughly equivalent value to Gomez, Hurley slightly better value than Mulvey, and Davis has tons more value than Deolis Guerra.

And of course, Johan is worth a lot more than Greinke. KC would be making out like bandits in that deal.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Aug 29, 2008 9:34 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sorry OC...

I know you are really getting bashed on this one so I’ll try to be nice about it. I wouldn’t do much more than Davis alone for Greinke.

I’ve said before something like Salty, Harrison, JMJ/Cruz, and Arias or a low level guy would be about as high as I go.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Aug 28, 2008 9:27 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

LSB DOGPILES!!

"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants

by Chase Irwin on Aug 28, 2008 10:15 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

sorry...

…if i’m Dayton Moore, the first person i’m asking about Davis.

realistically, i don’t think we would come away with Greinke without giving him up.

by oc on Aug 28, 2008 7:17 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

If you were Dayton Moore

where would you put Davis?

He has Butler, Gordon, Hosmer, Teahan, Kia’However the hell you spell it for 1B/DH/3B.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Butler DH
Gordon 3B
Teahen sucks
Hosmer a couple of years out
Davis > Ka’aihue

by oc on Aug 28, 2008 8:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But it's dumb

to spend your money/talent on something when you have a good alternative replacement. Whether or not Davis>Kai’aihue is not the question, the question is does the replacement of Kai’aihue with Davis justify giving up Greinke?

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, it most definitely would justify it

Davis is really, really good.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 28, 2008 11:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think

I am getting a little more excited about Holland than Feliz right now. Both impressive, but Holland has been sick since hitting AA

Nippert=Cy Young

by RA Dickey on Aug 28, 2008 7:29 PM CDT   0 recs

Don't get me wrong, I love them both

but Holland is 3-0, with a 0.90 ERA, 0.70 whip, 22K, 20 IP, OPP BA .152

Gotta love the future

Nippert=Cy Young

by RA Dickey on Aug 28, 2008 7:35 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

20 yr old and 21 yr old

Feliz was getting innings limited, if he had been allowed to really show his stuff, would have even more dominating stats. But, no doubt the future is bright.

by gamerabcd on Aug 28, 2008 7:43 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

UPDATES:

Clinton
beltre 0-4
moreland 2-4 2b
smoak 2-4 2b

Hamburger 1ip 1h save

Bakersfield

Osuna 2B 2-3 1bb 12b
lemon 2-4

Tufts 3ip 3h 1bb

Frisco

Moonshine CF 3-5 2b 2rbi
The King 0-5
Vallejo 2B 1-4

Laughter (BS, 5)(L, 2-3) sucked 0.2ip 3h 4r 4er 2bb

OKC

MadMax 1-3 1bb

Lizard sucked
Fukusucky sucked

"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM

by Jayslick on Aug 28, 2008 11:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Holland thru 2IP

2IP, 1 H, 0R, 3 K

25 pitches, 20 strikes

Nippert=Cy Young

by RA Dickey on Aug 28, 2008 7:37 PM CDT   0 recs

59 pitches thru 4

5 Ks, 2 H and a BB. ERA in AA thru 24 inning: .75

by clark on Aug 28, 2008 8:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

04 and 05 intl. FA signings/signing bonuses

Does anyone have a complete list of our 04 and 05 intl fa signings and what bonuses they received?

by Goyogringo on Aug 28, 2008 7:53 PM CDT   0 recs

T. Murphy

  IP H R ER BB SO HR
  5.0 2 2 2 0 4 1

by Kinslerhomer on Aug 28, 2008 7:55 PM CDT   0 recs

all the damage done

on a HR. most important thing…two baserunners in five innings.

by clark on Aug 28, 2008 8:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

OKC

With the exception of M. Ramirez, that line-up is ugly.

by T Coleman on Aug 28, 2008 8:19 PM CDT   0 recs

Shelton

is a pretty good AAA guy.

by FirebatM3 on Aug 28, 2008 8:23 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

True

Compared to looking at the other farm teams, just not a lot to be excited about. I guess that is because they are all in Arlington.

by T Coleman on Aug 28, 2008 8:25 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Alot of teams

have spares in Triple A and most of their true prospects lower ends. Maybe one true stud but thats all.

by gamerabcd on Aug 28, 2008 8:26 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

astros used to basically jump their guys past AAA

ESPECIALLY pitchers (kirk saarloos, c hernandez, etc)

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 9:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs