OT: McCain-Palin
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 9:43 AM CDT
1013 comments
All major news sources are now reporting that McCain has picked Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate. Interesting choice, and I like it. She is probably more of a 'maverick' than McCain, so fits the outsider image that every politician craves.
I do find it interesting, though, that a campaign that is trying to paint Obama as too young and inexperienced would pick someone even younger and less experienced in foreign policy for the VP. Each campaign seems to have gone the shoring up a weakness route, with Obama choosing the older, more experienced Washington lifer, and McCain choosing a young woman (hi there, Hilary supporters!).
I don't know a whole lot about Palin so I'll be looking forward to her speech next week. Call me wierd, but I kind of like the conventions and the major speeches they feature. I thought the Dems put on a pretty good show this week and I'm looking forward to seeing how the GOP counters...
Keep it civil, folks.
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palin
just saw the breaking news on tv, interesting indeed. they labeled her pretty much as an ultra conservative.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Aug 29, 2008 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Which channel labeled her that way?
I don’t doubt it, since he might be using her to further placate the religious right, but the source is relevant.
5 kids, she doesn’t need foreign policy experience
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Foxnews.com listed her as fiscal conserative
Although history has taught us that those that were fiscal in the past don’t stay that way.
Myself I would have thought it would be Huckabee to shore the Religious right and southern voters but if Palin can do the same and bring some Hillary voters then it’s a great choice. Just wonder how she’ll fare against Biden.
by Taylor on Aug 29, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
she'll rip him a new one.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you wish
As soon as it turns to foreign policy, Biden will smash her on live tv.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Aug 29, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and then she'll get all of the sympathy votes
and make Biden come across as an asshole.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's no crying in politics!!!!
but maybe you’re right. It worked for Hillary after all.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Aug 29, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell, it worked for Bush in 2000.
Gore ripped his ass off in their first debate and the media buzz after the event was all about Gore being a bully and that W won because you really couldn’t expect a dumbass to look any better than he looked that night. I’m still amazed by that to this day.
by Athos on Aug 29, 2008 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was that
the “biased media”? I thought they were all part of a left wing cabal?
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think the difference was that
Gore was condescending throughout the debate. Several times, he audibly sighed and rolled his eyes while Bush was speaking.
While he did win the debate, he came across looking like at an asshole based on his own actions moreso than how he made Bush look.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
The media focussed more on the appearance of the candidates rather than the substance of their arguments. But even coming into the debate they were all about low expectations for Bush.
In retrospect, maybe they should have focussed a little more on the substance of the debate and a little less on the then golden child’s ability to look affable while speaking like a dumb shit.
by Athos on Aug 29, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
predictably wrong again
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 2:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Predictably long on glib bullshit ...
and short on substance.
Were you W’s debate coach or something?
by Athos on Aug 29, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nbc
said shes very conservative and has something like an 80% approval rating in alaska
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Aug 29, 2008 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 kids
10 total people in Alaska. So 2 of the four people who aren’t in her family approve of her.
by robert_d_wilfong on Aug 29, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pro life
and shoring up the conservative right. Interesting that regardless of the outcome, we will have either a black president or female VP.
by Parman on Aug 29, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PS
I doubt Hillary supporters will jump on the Palin bandwagon because of her pro-life stance.
by Parman on Aug 29, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PS
i doubt all HRC supporters only supported her because of her abortion stance
also i bet a few would have voted for her simply because she was a woman (gasp!)
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And gasp gasp gasp!
Some might even have supported her because they just plain thought she was the best candidate.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
God help us.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
by TheBZA on Aug 29, 2008 9:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd do her
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 9:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On that note
Was that Biden’s daughter to his left last night? Not too shabby….
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
by TheBZA on Aug 29, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCain
Has some reaonably hot daughters, or at least one if I recall.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't they be like 50 years old?
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on Aug 29, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zing!
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Aug 29, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose that's smart
People like Sacha Millstone (Dem. delegate from Boulder who refused to vote for Obama because she was too big of a Hillary supporter) now have another opportunity to vote with their vaginas. Fantastic.
And now if McCain wins I’ll have another reason to burn Sacha Millstone’s house down.
by naropean on Aug 29, 2008 9:52 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Experience
Remember, Palin is running as the VP behind McCain’s experience. Obama shares Palin’s experience (lack thereof), but is running for the #1 spot. It will be tough for Obama’s camp to criticize her lack of experience. A little to akin to the pot calling the kettle black African American…
by Jack Nicholson 1974 on Aug 29, 2008 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
likewise
McCain cannot now complain about Obama’s lack of experience.
by jcAustin on Aug 29, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not true
Palin is not at the top of the ticket.
Also, she has been a mayor and is currently governor. This counts as experience, you know, actually running something. She’s not just listening to speaches and voting along party lines all day.
by Jack Nicholson 1974 on Aug 29, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering
the Crypt-Keeper’s likely to kick the bucket at any time, electing anyone with Palin’s lack of experience would be reckless.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wacko liberal talk...
is back.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 29, 2008 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wacko fascist talk...
is back.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you for proving my point...
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Aug 29, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dumb.
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intelligent political dialogue...
…still in hiding.
by GhettoBear04 on Aug 29, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How so?
McCain has tons more experience than Obama. The fact that his VP choice has very little is pretty immaterial. Meanwhile, on the flip side, the leader of the Democratic ticket is the one with no experience and had to pick a VP to add gravitas to the ticket. Doesn’t that sound a lot like Bush/Cheney?
by bking on Aug 29, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has to believe that Palin has the experience
to be a good president, so if he says Obama doesn’t he looks like a hypocrite.
by jcAustin on Aug 29, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Bush/Cheney
Well, Biden at least hasn’t shot anyone yet.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
nor had cheney in 00
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That we know of...
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never thought he could
Bush had no experience and he’s struggled with foreign and domestic policy, what was McCain going to say “Learn from the past eight years what inexperience will lead to?”
by Taylor on Aug 29, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
An inspired choice. I don’t like Obama or McCain, but McCain made a much better VP selection. At least she isn’t another old, washed-up retread like Biden.
I still won’t vote for either of them though.
--Brian
by BCanfield on Aug 29, 2008 9:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you're so cool!
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 29, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anybody else wish it was Michael Palin instead??
Now THAT would liven up the campaign.
by bking on Aug 29, 2008 9:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1 Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition
Call 1-800-DOCTORB. The B is for bargain!
by Panorama on Aug 29, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCain dropped the ball on this one, picked the wrong Palin
Michael’s down with the GOP.
by naropean on Aug 29, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as far as VP's go...
i guess.
i can’t help but thinking how used up that “piece” is after dropping five kids.
nothing screams “piece” like a has-been miss alaska runner up from 24 years ago. i keep thinking of that song, 1985.
by sam in so cal on Aug 29, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
funny
It’s like the complete inverse of Obama’s Biden pick. The young, less-experienced guy chooses the experienced insider, and the old, Washington guy chooses the young fresh face without much experience.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
by trza on Aug 29, 2008 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i really like the selection
1. It placates the true conservative base.
2. It’s someone with ZERO ties to the Bush administration.
3. It gives McCain a buzz that he hasn’t really had.
4. It steals some of the thunder away from Obama’s speech.
5. It carves into some of the Hillary supporters that wanted a woman and are indifferent on abortion.
6. It’s not some old, white guy where the opposition could continue to harp on it.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think its a smart move
when all the “name” Republicans have huge negatives, you might as well get a lesser known one.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure
That there’s a gigantic bloc of women who are indifferent on abortion.
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know about "gigantic"
but my wife is one of them. She leans pro-choice, but she’s voted Republican mostly.
I mean…I’m for gay rights, but it’s not an issue that is THAT important to me personally to overcome other issues.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a bit different
I think you’d have to admit. Really not that close, actually.
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know why it should be the case
they both affect a similar minority % in our country.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
One affects every woman, whether she ever has an abortion or not, and one affects, what, 10% directly, and anybody else indirectly.
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't see how abortion affects every woman
my wife’s never had an abortion, and she wasn’t aborted.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gah.
It’s a restriction on liberty. Whether or not she ever has an abortion, the option is available to her. Nobody will enter into a homosexual marriage who isn’t homosexual. Why are you arguing something so obvious?
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
people are free to do a lot of things they have no interest in doing
acting like they would fight for that right seems short-sighted.
There are plenty of women out there that would never vote for a pro-life candidate…I get that. I just feel there is also women out there that are probably pro-choice when push comes to shove that have other issues that they prioritize more heavily.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uhh
Huh? I wasn’t talking about “fighting”. I was talking about your horrible analogy.
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for example...
i have the RIGHT to own a gun. I don’t and have no interest in one. I don’t base my voting habits on gun control.
Some issues just don’t mean much to some people.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not getting it.
You’re talking about “caring” and I’m talking about “affecting”.
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gun control
AFFECTS every American’s liberty to own a gun. However, not many people CARE enough.
I think you’re the one who’s not getting it.
Acting like zero women who are pro-choice would vote for a woman who is pro-life is incredibly short-sighted.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When
Did I act like that? Seriously, what are you talking about?
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
here
I’m not sure
That there’s a gigantic bloc of women who are indifferent on abortion.
While I agreed that it was not a “gigantic” bloc. Indifference isn’t just that they are neither pro-life or pro-choice, but that they are indifferent enough to vote across typical party lines.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right...
And what in that leads you to believe I had any opinion on the matter? You really need to cut back on the assumptions. You can care about something and not let it affect your vote. I don’t get what point you’re trying to make.
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll boil it down to 2 sentences and leave it at that:
1. there will be some pro-choice women who vote Republican (a small %).
2. If people are strictly basing their voting habits on one issue as specific as abortion, that is sad in my opinion.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: " people are strictly basing their voting habits on one issue as specific as abortion, that is sad in my opinion."
Couldn’t agree more.
Unfortunately, there are millions and millions of them out there.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 29, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
I still don’t get why you’re preaching your beliefs. I never questioned them, just you analogy. Why is that hard to understand?
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
since the analogy wasn't really "the point"
i don’t find it worth discussing much more.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't blame you.
You spend a lot of time arguing a point not in contention. I’d feel stupid and want to move on, too.
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you serious?
you just described yourself exactly.
You are always arguing unimportant BS to the point where you are speaking in semantics.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you mean
…because i’m better than you…?
by brettgardner on Aug 29, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of the women I knew who were pro-choice
hated the thought that men were creating laws telling them what to do with their bodies.
by Taylor on Aug 29, 2008 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
would it be more well-received if it was coming from a woman?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
It really wouldn’t. In fact, the women I know who are pro-choice (even those like myself who would likely never have an abortion themselves) would in fact hate a woman telling us what we can/can’t do with our bodies moreso than a man.
by Melmart1 on Aug 29, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i agree that it would make no difference
i just thought it was odd in Taylor’s comment…“men”.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think ...
… that the word ‘men’ was chosen because in politics more often than not, it is a man you are talking about on the subject of abortion. Female politicians usually don’t spew about it one way or the other like some of the men do. At least, not in my observations.
by Melmart1 on Aug 29, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not my opinion
Just mentioning what those that were pro-choice used for their justification. Myself, I’m on the fence leaning towards pro-life (20 years ago I was 100% pro-choice) and can arguments made by both sides.
by Taylor on Aug 29, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i understood
i didn’t interpret it as your own argument.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I love the “telling us what we can/can’t do with our bodies” defense.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 29, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Men can't possibly understand
What if the government told you that you HAVE to give one of your kidneys to your neighbor because you have two healthy ones and he does not?
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose."
by baseballismyboyfriend on Aug 29, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not even remotely analogous
Like, really, it’s not.
I actually can’t believe how far that is away from being analogous.
It’s blowing my mind.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 29, 2008 6:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I happen to think it is.
It’s still the government making decisions about an individual’s body. I just think if our nation reverts to a time when abortion was illegal, it’s going to be very very ugly.
Also, if the government starts regulating this, what’s to stop them from telling people how MANY children they can have and what age is appropriate to have them?
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose."
by baseballismyboyfriend on Aug 29, 2008 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're really equating
the government’s right to force me to have life-threatening surgery so they can come into my body and take my kidney to whether or not the government sanctions you killing the nascent baby you knowingly and willingly created of your own free will?
Come on, you know that’s not analogous.
If you actually want to engage in a debate about abortion, that’s fine. But don’t start it off with that weak ass shit.
And the government makes decisions about what you can and can not do with your body all the time. Ever tried to sell an organ? Are you outraged you can’t?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 29, 2008 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You won't change my mind
And I won’t change yours, so what’s the point?
I just don’t think, as a man, you can understand what it means to have your body legislated.
-- Micah
Baseball Is My Boyfriend
"Clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose."
by baseballismyboyfriend on Aug 29, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
Everybody’s body is legislated. I don’t have the right to move my body in a way that damages another.
by brettgardner on Aug 30, 2008 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trying selling a lung on Ebay
I wonder if BBIMBF would take up your cause once you got arrested.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 30, 2008 2:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do understand
I mean, I guess you’re right that I can never truly understand what it’s like to be a woman, but I have given this issue a ton of thought and really listened to all sides before I came to my conclusion.
And, fwiw, you don’t know how I feel about abortion. I don’t think I’ve ever said on this board.
I was never trying to change anyone’s mind. I mainly stay out of the political discussions on this board for exactly the reasons you mention. If I thought there was anything I could say that would change your mind about an issue this big, then I’d honestly think you were so weak minded as to not want to even bother changing it…. if that makes any sense.
I was simply saying that the whole “telling us what we can/can’t do with our bodies” argument is specious and stupid and ignorant. And then that your analogy was even worse. And I still do that feel that way. It’s a weak analogy. So in other words: I don’t necessarily disagree with or have personal views in contrast to your point, I just think your argument is specious and I think you should give it a long hard look.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 30, 2008 2:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude dont argue with women over their body, its not a classy move
and i like you a lot. dudes just dont get to do that.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 3:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's silly.
People say “right to choose.” Where’s the man’s right to choose? A man can’t force an abortion, and can’t force a live birth. A man can offer to pay for an abortion, yet still be stuck with 18 years of child support payments.
You can’t talk about abortion as if it’s the woman’s decision in isolation (her body). There are a lot of other factors, and a lot of other people affected.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Aug 30, 2008 3:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats fine and i agree
but thats between you and your wife/girlfriend etc. its not something you just argue with your random female online.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 4:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see why not.
With rights come obligations.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Aug 30, 2008 4:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and its not your place to judge or dictate those obligations
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 4:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure I am.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Aug 30, 2008 4:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ill give ya the 5:45am get out of jail card
that wasnt even the right tense of a sentence.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what would you say if some1 told you what to do with your dick?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 31, 2008 6:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends...
on how hot she is. =p
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 31, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People tell me that all the time
I’m not allowed to whip it out in public and press it up against a school bus window, I’m not allowed use it to have intercourse with little boys or to choke midgets, etc. etc. etc.
And if I knowingly and willingly put a baby in my dick (I’m white so it’d have to be a pretty small baby) then I’d expect there to be some rules to that too.
The whole “It’s my body you can’t tell me what I can’t do with it” argument is completely specious.
People’s bodies are legislated all the time and you know it.
Let me ask you this, are you okay with telling women that they can’t abort at 8 and 1/2 months? I’ve never seen anyone who’s down with abortion at 8 and 1/2 months. How is that not telling a woman what she can’t do with her body?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 31, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think you can
choke midgets with it in Nevada so long as its consensual.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 31, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel that way, too
but on the other hand if I make a decision about my body that kills someone else, a law against that is probably ok. It really depends on how early into the pregnancy you define life. Very few women think it’s ok to abort just before birth, obviously, but beyond that there is nothing approaching a consensus, again, obviously.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
zero ties to Bush
But his exact political philosophy
by jcAustin on Aug 29, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly, eh?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will take a lot more than the Jr. Governor of the North Pole to steal Obama's thunder.
You are very nieve to think there are women who are indifferent on abortion. You must not know very much at all about women.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you must not know very much about the English language.
it’s “naive”… n-a-i-v-e… “naive”
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually he meant Nieves
as in that’s so “Melvin Nieves”.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 29, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
those were some extremely rare cards for their time...
…too bad this one is clearly not crisp around the edges.
by oc on Aug 30, 2008 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
HA HA HA
I knew there was a reason I liked you OC, old buddy.
Of course you collected cards.
Cause that’s what the awesome kids did.
I still have copies of the old Team Pinnacle cards where Juan Gonzalez (my fave player ever when I was young) was on one side and Barry Bonds on the other side.
FWIW, the other side of this card was David Hulse. How’s that for a blast from our mediocre freaking past?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 30, 2008 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't Frank Thomas in this series?
no, money down!
by oc on Aug 30, 2008 3:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm married to a woman
indifferent on abortion.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
….while most women may have a strong opinion on abortion, most are probably intelligent enough to realize that hiring a pro-choice vice is absolutely not going to effect their right to choice. It’s not like we’re going to be outlawing abortion anytime soon.
I’m as pro-life as it gets, but I fully realize that electing someone who shares my beliefs on that particular matter is not really going to accomplish a whole lot.
by jthig32 on Aug 29, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
vice
McCain and his hired vice are Pro-Choice. If McCain chooses the next Supreme Court justices, then abortion will be outlawed soon.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Aug 29, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It annoys the hell out of me.....
that people act like abortion is an open issue. It’s not. It’s the ultimate red herring in politics.
by bdavison94 on Aug 29, 2008 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sort of
I agree that people vote on abortion and other issues to their own detriment. I was just countering his argument, “It’s not like we’re going to be outlawing abortion anytime soon.” In reality, we could be outlawing it soon.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Aug 30, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Superb pick
Helps with pissed off women Hillary voters.
Helps with right wingers.
Very exciting pick.
54% of the electorate is women.
The much smarter McCain outmaneuvers Obama again..oh how I bet Obama wishes he could go back in time and pick a woman himself now..
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 10:14 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
i thought you said you would hate this pick
because of “affirmative action”?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, here it is
I think Pawlenty would be a great choice. Would help with Minnesota’s 10 EV’s, is a safe white male and not any of this Sarah Palin, Condi Rice (or fill in the politically correct minority here) affirmative action bullshit so many conservatives on message boards push.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't try to get consistency
out of the Sharkinator. Just enjoy the stream of consciousness bullshit.
He flip flops more than John Kerry or Mitt Romney.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
It’s true I’m not enamored with the pick being female, she seems more right wing than darn near all the candidates including Mitt Romney. And I can definitely support that.
I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things. If 54% of the electorate is women, if Palin can swing 2-4% of that, thats 1-2%. In this election thats big.
I found out Pawlenty is for cap and trade too, and I hate that shit. And Mitt is dogged by Mormonism, so yeah, maybe not ideal pick from MY narrow view, but probably the best available.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Female liberals ...
… will not vote for Palin. For true female liberals (not the caricature of them that you make up in your silly little head), abortion is too big of an issue to excuse.
So why aren’t you enamored with the pick being female? Is it based on gender only? And if so, what was the name of the woman who snapped your little sharky fin so badly that you are letting it affect your political judgement?
by Melmart1 on Aug 29, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok you do understand that some people voted for hillary simply because she was a woman
some will vote for obama because hes black
some will vote for mccain because he is white
some will vote for palin because she is a woman
some will vote for biden because…he lives in deleware?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I realize that ...
… but that is not what I was responding to. Sharky makes LIBERAL women out to be some cartoon character, hoping that they only care about whether the candidate is a woman or not. I simply set him straight. You are talking about the populace at large, I was pinpointing one group.
by Melmart1 on Aug 29, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's also kind of crappy
That she wont help with a specific state (besides Alaska which was already in the bag). But she probably more than makes up for it by helping in an overall way in many states.
Again, looking at the choices in retrospect, it’s hard to argue. Lieberman, Ridge etc would have ignited a war within the Republican party. Romney is great on TV and the issues, and had the most name recognition, but the Mormon thing is a problem. Pawlenty was too much of a “meh” no name.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
God I'm torn
whether to keep my sig what it is, or change it to
“I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things.”- Sharky.
So much gold, so little space.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Make it a 2fer
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 29, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I vote you keep the current
That shit is priceless.
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
by TheBZA on Aug 29, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2fer
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
…i love that you denegrate the people you need to win the election. truly.
its like the you black conservative that cnn always flashes to after a speech. they did it twonites ago and my wife looks at me and says “doesn’t she know the republicans are only using her….”
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
seeing as minorities have been voting Democrats for decades
and still are suffering in ghettos, crappy schools, and low (or no) paying jobs, I’d look at it the opposite way.
What have Democrats done for the minorities that elicit such unbridled dedication?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 12:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
they dont build wall and they dont brun crosses?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the first cross burners were Democrats
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
they were southern baptists.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
in the Democrat party
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who walked out and became republicans
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whats so HORRIBLE about a wall?
and burn crosses? …really?
because there have never been any other groups that hate white people, only white people who hate other groups…
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't make either side right...
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
honestly...
…i’ll never understand how criticizing a group i am a part of makes me not like that group… be it america, whites, educated, southern…. i can’t understand what seems to be a conservative standard of “if you’re not with us, you’re against us….”…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hawaii vs alaska
loser gets kicked out of the union
(i’m surprised mccain could find an alaska republican not under indictment, impressive)
by tangiers on Aug 29, 2008 10:32 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see how Palin helps with women.
I think McCain believes he’s got some of Hillary’s vote no matter what he does. Palin is a bone thrown to the right, but I have no feel for how the right might respond. To me, it seems more like a move to appease voters for then next few months than to bring in someone who can work as a partner, much like it would’ve seemed had Obama picked Clinton.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Aug 29, 2008 10:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Palin may help with women
in general. But female Hillary supporters? I highly doubt this helps at all. if he was hoping to siphon a few Hillary voters with this pick, I think he made an error in judgement.
by Melmart1 on Aug 29, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard Geraldine Ferraro's comments this AM
She didn’t say it explicitly, but that is one woman voting for McCain-Palin.
If she’s of that opinion, I guarantee many others are as well.
by JBImaknee on Aug 29, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt there are "many"
There is an Obama office in my building. They’re tight lipped, but there’s always this one guy out in the hall eating a sandwich when I come home for lunch. I ask him questions now and then. Today I asked if they had any numbers on the Hillary camp. He wouldn’t get specific but smiled and said “it’s looking good”.
And that would make sense. The people supporting Clinton weren’t supporting her just because she’s a woman. They were supporting her because of her record and personality. Very, very few of them are going to vote for John McCain or any Republican.
More people watched Obama’s speech than watched the opening ceremony at the Olympics. After seeing that, and if they saw both of the Clintons’ speeches I don’t see how the party is not more unified than it has ever been in my lifetime and beyond. I promise you there are a lot of Republicans who are scared shitless right now, facing the very real possibility of losing more seats in both houses and the White House.
To them, I say every now and then a party needs its ass kicked, and you’ll come out stronger on the flip side. But for now, yeah, it’s looking bleak.
by Black Francis on Aug 29, 2008 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never understood the drama....
that was expected from the Clintons at the convention. Of course they were going to kiss and make up. I can’t believe anyone doubted that.
by bdavison94 on Aug 29, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palin is the WRONG candidate
McCain really dropped the ball on this one. McCain’s major weakness is understanding the economy, he should’ve brought in someone that’s strong on his weaknesses, not someone that’s a clone.
by Coolbean04 on Aug 29, 2008 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This just further pushes me to vote for Obama
and I’m a Republican.
by Coolbean04 on Aug 29, 2008 10:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
makes no sense
Why must McCain’s VP choice be an expert on the economy? There are many cabinet positions to fill and lets not forget about advisors.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Aug 29, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Economy
The economy is most people’s number one issue. McCain said in an interview one time that he’s not as strong politically on the economy as he is on foreign policy. By not choosing an economic centric VP, he’s admitting that his ticket isn’t good with most people’s number one issue unlike the democratic ticket.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Aug 29, 2008 3:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would obviously be
the hottest VP ever. Maybe even hotter than Charles Dawes.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh-oh...
…serious peach fuzz on her face.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She's got that
hot, bookish look thing going.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can ignore that
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can shave that
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 29, 2008 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
TBALL!!! you hit the nail on the head!!
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“…and i thought she was kinda coming on to me a bit, because she said…‘succulent’”…
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, she just got the vote ...
… of all the guys who dig hot librarians. Don’t know how big that demographic is but she can certainly swing more votes from it than Biden.
by Melmart1 on Aug 29, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
who DOESN'T
dig hot librarians?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would ...
… but alas, none of the male librarians I have ever encountered were hot.
by Melmart1 on Aug 29, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you should try drinking more before
heading to the library.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I am going to drink ...
… to make people look better, I would rather have a better selection that a handful of schlocky librarians. Particularly because I know two of them who work in a college library here in town, and quite frankly, they both scare me just a bit.
by Melmart1 on Aug 29, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
um
That isn’t her. That picture is of the overstock.com model.
THIS is her:
by naropean on Aug 29, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the power of correcting somebody on a blog...
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know right
I feel like I could wrestle a bear.
by naropean on Aug 29, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the pick
-McCain just engaged (woke up) every moderate republican, who, to this point, didn’t care what’s been going on. I promise, there is a lot of us.
-Palin took on Big Oil and won. Took on government corruption and won. I like that she’s green because she probably thinks she can make a difference.
-I think Biden will eat her lunch on experience but do we like old pitchers to join the Ranger’s staff because they have great experience?
Anyone that thinks this doesn’t help McCain’s womens’ vote is on crack. I would be interested in any woman’s opinion on which is more important to them: a woman breaking the glass ceiling for the first time in history or that woman’s view on abortion since everyone seems to think that will have more weight in this election
by corbsclinton on Aug 29, 2008 10:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll withhold judgement until I see her voting record
on the tech side (Yeah, I’m biased), but wow what a picture below!
by Taylor on Aug 29, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh?
How does an ultra conservative wake up moderate repblicans?
I think Biden will eat her lunch on experience but do we like old pitchers to join the Ranger’s staff because they have great experience?
What are you trying to say about McCain?
by enut21 on Aug 29, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because when I think moderate republican, I think its someone that is tired of both sides of the isle and the fact nothing is getting done. What she has done with her state and big oil tells me she’s not affraid of how much money she’s not going to get in campaign dollars. That’s a welcome first. Once she gets in and sees corruption, instead of joining the party, she calls them out. Who calls out corruption in Washington these days?
I wasn’t trying to say anything about McCain. I was comparing qualifications of the 2 possible vp’s. Biden gets the nod.
by corbsclinton on Aug 29, 2008 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who needs experience, When you have boobies?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 10:56 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Wow
They dug that one up quickly.
fap fap fap fap
Plaschke: Scioscia, the former Dodgers catcher, is the model manager who has created an atmosphere of winning.
Junior:It's that simple. Mike Scioscia brings a Glade Plug-In labeled "Winning™" into the clubhouse and everyone who breathes it in gains 15 points in average.
by TheBZA on Aug 29, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm voting Republican
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it just me ...
or does that photo look like somebody put Palin’s head on somebody else’s body?
by Athos on Aug 29, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I opened it up in Photoshop
…and in my humble opinion it’s a fake. I’ve seen more obvious ones and I don’t normally use PS for that kind of thing so I’m not an expert. The most obvious evidence I can come up with is that the earrings are not in the right place at all. If you look at it closely they seem to be hanging from her cheeks, not her ears. Plus the compression in the face looks different than the compression in the background, but I don’t normally work in compressed formats so I can’t be sure about that.
by Black Francis on Aug 29, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
it IS hosted on fuckin’ flickr.
by Caseys Kiss of Death on Aug 29, 2008 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please let this be a joke....
I must be missing your attempt at humor right?
by bdavison94 on Aug 29, 2008 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its definately fake, but its still funny
i do photoshop work a bunch (i didnt modifiy that one though) and its not real. you can see the edge on her chin.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 3:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it's a fake....
I was just wondering if BF up there was trying to be funny with his seemingly serious attempt to uncover the fact that it was fake.
by bdavison94 on Aug 30, 2008 10:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fuck, I've become such a politics junkie
I love this shit. I cant wait until Nov 7. I know the swing states by heart lol.
I imagine some of you guys know, but did you see Nate Silver has a big politics site based on statistics? Here: http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That site rocks
and lots of cool charts and graphs, etc. He had some interesting thoughts on Palin:
I DON’T think Palin will have a lot of appeal to Hillary Clinton voters, as Palin runs squarely into some gender politics taboos, i.e. the younger, more attractive, but less qualified woman replacing the older one.
and
But as one of my commenters notes, “it may be the biggest gamble in political history”. A significant gaffe on an issue like foreign policy — whether in the VP debate or in some other context — could render the election essentially unwinnable for McCain.
If I’m McCain I’m worrying more about her lack of experience in national campaigns than her lack of foreign policy experience.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd really like to see her speak in public
before saying if I think it will truly help or hurt McCain. Her resume looks pretty impeccable at this point, and again, if Obama wants to harp on her lack of experience, he’ll come across looking silly.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Her resume looks pretty impeccable at this point
1.5 years as governor of a state with twice the population of arlington?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i probably shouldn't have said "resume"
her background was maybe more apt
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what background?
mayor of wasila population 5,000? or runner up in Miss Alaska?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
5 kids
1 in Iraq
1 with Down’s Syndrome
not born with a silver spoon
took on corrupt politicians (Republican) in Alaska
strong female
etc.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i'd almost venture to say that out of all 4 of them
she may be the one that is most like the “average person”
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sooooooo that makes her qualified to be one heartbeat fromm the president huh?
i guess we have different qualifications for our commander in chief!
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, it means that they can't dig for dirt in her personal life
dumbass
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
good call.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe she can die soon
so that you can get excited about it like you did when Tony Snow passed.
if every person in that mold were to pass it would make this country better.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
naw she's a lot hotter than tony snow.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh, Chuck Todd already covered this
Apparantly, the cop husband was beating Palins sister his wife at the time
So yeah, pretty much a pass on that one, nobody will dare touch her for it.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does her having 5 kids and 1 with Down's have to do with anything?
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 29, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
makes her more "human"
in the public eye.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
More human that someone who lost their wife and youngest child in an auto accident?
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 29, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
since when did I compare her to Biden?
the “more” in my comment was meant to contrast against Palin if she didn’t have the family.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zing
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 29, 2008 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I noticed quickly, if you look in the FAQ’s, Silver admits he is an Obama supporter, and as to whether that influences his sites results, says “I hope not”
So yeah, I think he’s looking for negatives on her because of his allegiances.
But you guys know how I’m always harping on Rasmussen as the most trustworthy poll, I thought this was interesting (basically one of the major hooks of Silvers site is that he gives different weight to different polls based on historical reliability) 
Yeah, rasmussen right up at the top (well, behind one outfit I’ve never heard of and surely doesnt do near the depth and frequency of polling Rasmussen does) and surveyusa (ditto more or less, though at least I’ve heard of them) and well above such left wing faves as Gallup, Zogby, LA Times/Bloomberg, CBS/New York Times, etc.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The crazy thing about this is
Given McCain’s age:
What if he dies
If he doesnt die, she’ll have to be a major frontrunner for pres in 4-8 years??
Assuming McCain wins I suppose, a foregone conclusion imo.
This basically makes her a major force in national politics for oh, the next decade..
Shes supposed to come TV any second, I want to hear her, hurry up..
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What if he dies?
shouldnt that be question #1 for considering a VP nominee?
personally it scares the hell out of me that McCain could drop dead 2 days into office and the country would be stuck with a president whose main experience comes from 1+ years of a state half the population of Fort Worth.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he dies
She can be the first President ever to star in a remake of Van Halen’s Hot for Teacher Video.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You better ...
… keep her away from Salty!
by Melmart1 on Aug 29, 2008 11:37 AM CDT up reply actions 4 recs
rec
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is there ANY doubt who will portray her on SNL?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:13 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Tina Fey
Yeah this is great for SNL. Can’t wait till they start up again. Politics + SNL = comedy gold.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Aug 29, 2008 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
didnt tina fey leave SNL a while back?
sorry i dont catch SNL much anymore, amy poler or whatever her name is.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 29, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, i thought she was still a writer
for them…my bad
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When she comes back to
host she can do it.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
She’s doing 30 Rock now. Forgot about that.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Aug 29, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The RNC will be hilarious
Apparently they are having trouble filling the 18,000 seat stadium (that is after the DNC had a waiting list for their 85,000 seat stadium). Really smart move on the Dems’ part – making the RNC look like the minor leagues in comparison.
by Mahon on Aug 29, 2008 11:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
I read it was McCAin’s biggest crowd so far by like a factor of 3, so thats not bad.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
its not good either.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sound
they need a better sound engineer, the feedback is annoying.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
haaaaaaaawt
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speech
Ok, is this intro music like the “Alaska” theme or something? The sound of it makes it seem she should walk out wearing chaps or driving a dog sled.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i woulda liked Elvis, "North to Alaska!"
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was
Johnny Horton, but yeah.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn
i thought i knew my music history pretty good.
blew that one.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one of my hero's
well, just about.
very very fond of Fela. my minor was african studies and one of my professors was a college kid in nigeria when the military dictatorship was in power, i heard stories of the young students getting ready for the daily protests and riots against the government while dancing to Fela.
Fela is greatness.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
relevance
to Alaska or Johnny Horton? I had to look him up.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
none at all
but he makes rage against the machine look like republicans.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
t ball...
…your love affair with Fela Kuti and the Africa 70 begins now.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
word!
fela was a badass
zombie is a good song to listen to to get into him.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Sorrow, Tears & Blood" was the song that hooked me.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, pal
I love discovering new music but I just can’t bring myself to give one of your recs a listen after that DJ Dill Picklez (or whoever) shit you inflicted on me last time.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 29, 2008 6:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
give me a chance then
stevie wonder and james brown traveled to nigeria to play with the guy, he ain DJ Picklz or whatever.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 3:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ohhh, the Rudy them
ohhhh snapp!!!!
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a really smart move
McCain did a stellar job of keeping this under wraps, so it was a complete stunner this AM, taking Obama’s speech off the headlines.
It does dampen the “experience” angle a bit, but it was obvious that he had to pick someone young, and it wasn’t clear that that angle was working all that well anyway (it didn’t get Hillary anywhere).
The fact he picked a woman is smart, but made smarter by the fact that it was a shocker. Everyone just assumed it was going to be another generic rich white guy (Romney, Pawlenty), and they pull her out of the hat.
Who knows who wins this election, but at least none of the candidates are incredibly obnoxious (Edwards) or kind of scary (Cheney).
by JBImaknee on Aug 29, 2008 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
So...
there’s still a chance a woman can be president.
Good choice by McCain. Now he can get a good chunk of the “Lifetime” and “Oxygen” audience vote.
by chrisR on Aug 29, 2008 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i want to see her on "the View"
i mean…Is the View still on TV?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Poor Michael Moore
can’t make up stuff now.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 11:35 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
well, i suppose he still can...
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his upcoming movie
is based on Bush’s second term.
by Taylor on Aug 29, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the accent's a bit annoying
at least to me.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 11:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I like her
She’s cool.
McCain=home run VP
Obama=strike out
Women will like her cus shes a woman, men will like her cus she’s hot
Will be Americas sweetheart.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
king of the flames. general of the feeble. defender of the LSB trolls... sir shark.
the funny part is how many people take you serious…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm surprised
he’s not taking advantage of hitting up on Duff knowing her dad can’t come after him for 10 days
by Taylor on Aug 29, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lollolololol
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
McCain leads by 8-10 points within a week
This must be a nightmare for Obama..
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
if obama nominates some1 similar youd be railing on how it was his doomsday b/c her experience is axactly Jack and Shit.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats because his experience is
jack and shit.
his = obamas
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
who is obamas?
"For those booing me. Take that, beeep." - Ramon Vazquez
by 8legs2fangs on Aug 29, 2008 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were already talking about the Biden=Palin debate
1. He cant go after her hard with all his years of foreign policy experience or he risks looking like a bully
2. The expectations for her will be so low, it’ll be impossible for her not outperform them
LOL, poor Democraps..
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
re:
Palin has more experience in running a government than both Biden and Obama combined, yet, dems will say she is ‘inexperienced’…
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1.5 years of experience as governor of a state with 1/2 as many people as fort worth will get ya a title of inexperienced
dont ya think?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
about the same experience as Obama
considering Obama’s now spent 2 years of his term running for a different office.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
since when are...
…the republicans sentimental about people getting bullied?
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 11:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
low expectations
that’s a plus, but I have to think they are going to be prepping her nonstop with her lack of experience in this kind of thing.
And you’re absolutely right. It’s amazing how not a single Democrat in the universe has ever, ever had a good idea (that wasn’t stolen from the Aryan greatness of the GOP). What a bunch of bungling idiots.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patronizing
Oh, and you’re attitude about Biden having to go soft on the female is awfully patronizing.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you expect more from sharky?
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I need to see and read a little bit more
but this appears to be a phenomenal choice.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Aug 29, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Biden will have no problem chewing up Palin and spitting her out in any debate.
He will have already done it with McCain by the time a VP debate will even occur, and she will barely serve as dessert. Your admitted narrow view of the world would keep you shielded from the fact that their are many many women serving in both houses of congress, and holding Governorships. Debating women in the political arena is nothing new to an experienced politician like Joe Biden. It is a typical bigoted view that women wish to be treated differently or are weaker and expected to be dealt with more gently than someone of your own gender.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Biden is going to hurt
more than help Obama.
Why Dems continue to put eastern establishment types on either side of the ticket is beyond me because it doesn’t win elections.
Muskie ’68, Shriver ’72, Ferraro ’84, Dukakis ’88, Lieberman ’00, Kerry ’04 … on and on it goes.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Aug 29, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets see what they have to say
after biden gives us a good one liner in a week or two about mccain being old or palin being a woman lol
much like he did with obama lol
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another point from Chuck Todd
The McCain camp was worried about the perception that somehow, by voting against Obama, people would be “impeding history”, ie the first black pres and all that.
Well now they have a reason for people to vote for them and feel historical as well.
Good thinking, I hadn’t even considered that angle.
Yep, McCain is just so much smarter than Obama..
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 11:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Except Palin is NOT the first female white VP candidate.
McSame is just pandering to a small portion of the female vote he could not attract on his own merit. She helps more to shore up the conservative/evangelical wing of the party that McSame loathes.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
except shes the first one
who has a chance to win?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Obama
Just hours ago the talk was all about his “masterful” convention speech, and now he’s been totally upstaged.
I bet his team is seething..
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 12:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You do know that everyone has known all week that McCain would be announcing the pick today, don't you?
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 29, 2008 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will take more than the Jr. Governor of the "North Pole" to steal Obama's thunder.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont listen to OC, the north pole is very valid :)
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
replying to anything Sharky says is an exercise in futility.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've notice how he is intellectually incapaple of replying to any of the comments made toward him.
Meaningful debate is just a little over his head. Facts seem to scare him off.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 29, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
does anybody...
…think that mccain will actually ask palin her opinion on something?
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 12:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sarah Palin is going to be
featured quite prominiently in this election.
If I’m a Dem, I’d be quite concerned that they only received a 6 point bounce in the polls…because that’s nothing.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Aug 29, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Gore got a 15 point convention bounce in 2000. Still lost (narrowly, heh).
Not only that but Rasmussen shows exactly a zero point bounce, the bounce is only in gallup.
Then again it hasnt settled. Probably another week to see the true bounce or lack thereof.
It seems to me Palin will already blunt some of the bounce. I think it will help Repubs even more if they delay their convention because of the hurricane (later convention=later bounce=better).
I have to say, MSNBC lost all credfibility this weekend, Olbermann is really a monster. He’s literally now trying to censor every conservative viewpoint at the network, there’s a youtube video of him telling producers"alright wrap him up" about (conservative) Mike Murphy the other day in a very hostile way to an open mike because he didnt like what Murphy was saying.
Whatever you think of his politics, what a petulant child.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's obviously far worse than O'Reilly and Hannity...
/tongue, meet cheek
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Aug 29, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
O Reilly and Hannity are opinion shows, not alleged straight news coverage. Nobody at Fox behaves like that in straight coverage.
If Olbermann wants to do that on his own show, fine whatever. But he’s literally trying to take over the entire network now, and nothing he doesnt approve apparantly gets on.
I mean fine whatever, but MSNBC is really a loose cannon with Olbermann right now and it’s not going to end well. I’ve never witnessed such blatant partisanship as coming out of Olbermann/Mathews this Dem convention. They’re going to lose all credibility if nothing else. And we all know how this is going to end, after them telling us how incredibly wonderful Obama is for six months, how everything is going so incredibly swimmingly and all America loves Obama and he cant possibly lose, Olbermann and Mathews will have hung heads on election night in November. Credibility=gone.
Olbermann just cant control his censoring liberal urges, apparantly.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FOX News is the king of spin...
…from the stock footage they use, to the guests that appear on their show…
…from the way Brit Hume delivers his “fair, balanced, and unafraid” line…
the media is a hoax.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yea ALL media basically
are the kings/queens of spin one direction or another
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the two things that have ruined society:
technology and the media.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People just hate Fox because they're moderate/left
Which stands out a lot in the sea of far left networks.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
People hate Fox News because it has been the exclusive propoganda machine of the Bush administration for the past eight years.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
can easily say that about any show
people have XXX because it has been the propoganda machine of XXX for the past XXX years
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're biased
always going on about climate.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Christina Abernathy used to be a prized piece...
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You might find this funny
http://www.rage3d.com/board/archive/index.php?t-33781604.html
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Murphy is an idiot. Nothing he says makes a bit of sense but that's how conservative comentators talk.
MSNBC should have at least borrowed somebody from “Fox and Friends,” that way they would have been at least presentable.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
So, because you declare him an idiot without any facts, he must be censored.
Nice, can I do likewise? Olbermann is an idiot, therefore he should never be allowed on the air. Now we’re even.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You constantly
do likewise.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They all have agendas, that's the nature of cable news programs.
If I had all the transcripts from the shows Murphy was on, I would be glad to go over them word for word with you, but i don’t have them handy.
I really just came over to see what LSB had on their disappointing loss to the Angels last night.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course...
…next year, Vladdy will be 50. Anderson will be 51. Francisco Rodriguez will be gone. Teixeira will be gone. Matthews Jr. will still be terrible. Brandon Wood will still not get it.
and at some point Joe Saunders will come back down to earth.
meanwhile, we just continue to get younger and better.
GASP!
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
enjoy it now, because holy shit, in three years, your team will be in shambles.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep dreaming.
Tony Regins is not going to let the team fall apart like you hope. How does a guy like Nolan Ryan not recognize the need for good pitching on his team? That question baffles me.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
do your research, Nancy...
…this team has acquired enough depth in the minors to trade for a young front-line starter this offseason.
we also have the money to spend on Sheets if we so desire.
we have two future aces blooming in Double-A.
get familiar with the names Wilfredo Boscan, Michael Main, Martin Perez, Blake Beavan and Robbie Ross, because they are the next army of arms behind them.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
on top of this, a slew of rookies are taking their lumps this season... and will no doubt mature with more experience next season.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what rookies do, take their lumps. Angels rookies are no different.
Juan Rivera and Jose Arredondo are our outstanding highlights if you keep your eyes on the Angels. Arredondo will probably be the closer next year. Sean Rodriquez is showing signs of promise. Brandon Wood will probably get his act together and be good next year.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you do realize
that juan rivera is far from being a rookie, right?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
meanwhile, Nick Adenhart continues to get pounded around...
…heh…
and between Stoneman and Reagins, your team has failed to spend on the draft the last two seasons.
yikes.
by oc on Aug 29, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whose been a bigger flop this year
adenhart or hurley lol
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
'nuff said
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rangers are out of it
there have been many disappointing losses…were used to it now
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who knows what the magic number
for a convention bounce is but JCarter led Ford by 18 points in ‘76 and narrowly won. Obama makes for a very nice story but he’s not a strong candidate (and the meager 6 point bounce illustrates this). If he really was strong he wouldn’t have struggled as much as he did with HRC.
I think your numbers are correct on Gore in ‘00. Liberal pukes like to think differently but Dubya whipped his ass in the debates. The turning point came when Gore was walking around during the debate, invaded Bush’s personal space and then received unscripted “wtf are you doing?” glare from Bush.
At that singular moment, Gore fumbled in the red zone and coughed up his lead.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Aug 29, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Todays tracking polls
Rassmussen Obama+4 (49-45)
Gallup Obama +8 (49-41)
All in the 40’s..doesnt seem like anything McCain cant recover from.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Number really start to matter after both conventions.
Everything is very misleading after just one, regardless of the size of the “bump”.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Aug 29, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
none of that answers my question...
….does anyone here actually see mccain asking palin her opinion on anything?… anything?
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. After today she is a place holder nothing more, nothing less.
She is window dressing to spark up McCains floundering campaign.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet Obama is smiling right now.
Not only did Obama make a fine VP choice himself, and not only did McCain clearly go regional with his VP pick (especially to shore up a traditionally red state), but this isn’t going to bring more female voters to McCain.
Obama is the “pro-female” candidate, and has harped on that for the past eight months. Pawlenty was the pick here for McCain, someone who could at least match up with Biden at the debate and help in a state that really matters.
Now? It’s a ticket of Old Man/Obscure Woman, which I don’t think is going to fly. Obama just won Pennsylvania, and just closed in on victory in Ohio.
I’m not saying this is a swing and a miss for McCain. She adds a little buzz, and the timing from a political standpoint is excellent. But really, I don’t see her bringing anything to the ticket.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Aug 29, 2008 12:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i think you're underestimating Palin's ability to attract women
do I think it will be a big , no? But even a 3-5 pull among women that weren’t going to vote for McCain beforehand would be huge, and I think it is something that is manageable.
If Obama wants to call himself “pro-female”, he’s going to look just silly – whether he’s justified by his pro-choice stance or not.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think politics can always be analogized to gambling
And a blackjack analogy fits this.
After the convention, Biden, and Hillary amends, McCain had a 17 and was facing a dealer showing an 8. Maybe the smart move was to play it safe (a Pawlenty pick), but McCain is a gambler, and wasn’t going to sit still and let Obama beat him, so he took a hit. Instead, he’d rather gamble, and go down doing something wild than lose being cautious.
Palin is a huge risk – there are any number of places that she can fail. But her upside is huge, and if she works out is enough to win this election no matter what Obama does.
Also, this isn’t a regional pick at all. Pawlenty would have been, but not Palin.
by JBImaknee on Aug 29, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, as a compulsive gambler...
…you have to take a hit on 17 with an 8 showing. :)
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Aug 29, 2008 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
obama is effed
he can’t say anything about Palin’s experience or he will be making an argument against HIMSELF…
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, very very very interesting.
"Republican strategist Karl Rove called Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.) late last week and urged him to contact John McCain to withdraw his name from vice presidential consideration, according to three sources familiar with the conversation."
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Aug 29, 2008 12:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
that was the news the last few days.
Hearing that the other day, I went into this morning thinking that Lieberman was going to be the pick. But now I think that was a head-fake to throw people off the scent of Palin. It makes McCain look bold and independent, and distances him from Bush/Rove.
by JBImaknee on Aug 29, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supposedly
McCain gave Lieberman serious consideration as recently as a few days ago, floated the idea to the Republican infrastructure,, and got the message back loud and clear he’d better not do it.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not surprising.
Liebermann or even Ridge would have been a total betrayal of the conservative base. While it wouldn’t have shifted people over to Obama, people definitely would have been more inclined to just not vote at all.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Aug 29, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palin
It could backfire. Geraldine Ferraro selection did and the fact that McCain selected this person who has a little over 1 year in experience takes away this talking point. She’s going to get creamed by Biden in the debates. The new Dan Quayle should be the new talking points for the Dems because it’s accurate.
by Monkey Brain on Aug 29, 2008 12:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
eh
Obama has to be careful attacking her experience and saying she’s a heartbeat away from the presidency. He’s not exactly Reagan/Bush running against her – he’s done a good job making experience NOT an issue in this campaign, because it is one thing that he really can’t win on.
by JBImaknee on Aug 29, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
GFerraro was a desperation
pick. Reagan/Bush steamrolled in that election and nobody was going to beat them.
This election is up for grabs and I think Palin brings in a lot of middle aged white cougars…I mean women.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Aug 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Finally someone figures it out.
McCain has someone in Palin to mentor and allow to be an understudy for the 2016 election. Do you really feel comfortable with Biden as next in line to the presidency? He got NO support in a couple of tries for the job.
This is where Bush made the mistake of putting Cheney on the ticket who would never run for Prez. Left a wide open race in 08. Although with Bush’s horrendous run, it is a moot point now.
Palin is a refreshing candidate and someone I will research ALOT more before selecting whom I vote for. Too bad for the Dems, a Hillary (prez) and Obama (VP and grooming for prz in 2016) ticket would have won a landslide. Now it is a tossup.
With the latest revelations, how stupid was putting Edwards on the ticket four years ago. Nobody wanted him as Prez.
Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!
by pbpsean on Aug 29, 2008 12:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Long term this is an ideal move for the Republicans, whose ranks were looking rather slim. Regardless of the outcome of this race, Palin becomes a major political figure so long as she doesn’t screw things up herself (a loss will just be attributed to Bush and McCain). She can go back to Alaska and we’ll see her again in 2012 or 2016.
I’ve always liked the vice president as basically a minor league system for running for presidency. It takes one of your best prospects (usually not your #1, but your #3 or #4) and moves them into the national scene.
by JBImaknee on Aug 29, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Biden
I don’t think the fact that his campaign went nowhere means we should be “uncomfortable” with him being next in line to the presidency. I also don’t think Obama/Clinton would have been an automatic landslide.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Biden
I like the guy, and always thought that he was the most qualified Democratic candidate for the presidency. Of all the names on the ballot (Obama/Biden/McCain/Palin), his is the one I’m happiest to see there.
by JBImaknee on Aug 29, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know a lot of people who feel that way.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be one of those people.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 29, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mccain won't make it another 8 years... nice try...
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 29, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even money
that McCain makes a 1 term pledge at the convention
by JBImaknee on Aug 29, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he does that...
..he may as well make a concession speech right then and there.
by Black Francis on Aug 29, 2008 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take that bet
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 29, 2008 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I'm sorry, I don't mean to blatantly attack one candidate...
…but McCain is a terrible speaker, and Palin isn’t exactly a natural orator. McCain’s got to come out strong at the convention and show some public speaking chops. He HAS to.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Aug 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yes
because if there’s one thing that’s been proven, it’s that this country will NOT stand for poor public speakers in high places.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm only saying...
…that it doesn’t matter how great your policies are if you can’t enunciate them.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Aug 29, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
People dont care about that shit.
McCain sucked at speaking all through the Republican primary, and still won.
Old people who vote dont care. People just gloss over it.
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats b/c all the other candidates were total shit.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 29, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bull
Mitt Romney gave the best speech I have ever heard at CPAC
"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain
by dstar442005 on Aug 29, 2008 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
happy or sad about VP?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Aug 29, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
happy
I love her, but I’m a big fan of delivering states, and I think Romney could have delivered Nevada and Michigan and Indiana.
I’m a creationist too, like her.
I don’t know, it could be great and McCain could roll on election day because of her, but he could lose by a state or two because she didn’t have any huge bump in any particular state while just adding a percentage or two in each state, while Romney may have delivered those states I mentioned previously.
"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain
by dstar442005 on Aug 29, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and your point is you want a great orator as your pres?
Palin was more than fine by the way…
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what a joke pick
is McCain not taking this seriously?
by SteveP on Aug 29, 2008 12:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Obama is the joke pick
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
by Longhorn on Aug 29, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yo mama
is a joke pick.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did not know...
Will be interesting to see how that plays. It seemed to hurt Huckabee in the primary.
"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer
by ghtd36 on Aug 29, 2008 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Of course she is
McCain had to cater to the inbred, hillbilly evangelical Christian nuts that are the heart and soul of the Republican party.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sweeeeeet Jeesus
no experience in foreign relations, believes that a God magically created things, and had a 5th child while in her 40’s knowing the chances of birth defects in children born to mothers over 40 climbs exponentially, shows a massive error in judgement
"For those booing me. Take that, beeep." - Ramon Vazquez
by 8legs2fangs on Aug 29, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your first two criticisms are valid and fair.
The last is just mean spirited.
by Athos on Aug 29, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not even sure the 2nd criticism is
i mean, i understand that politicians shouldn’t legislate via creationism, but since when is our country hell-bent on mocking the beliefs of others?
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
difference between mocking and not funding its teachings
is massive!!!!!
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 2:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
When folks believe in flat earth
we should feel free to mock them.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.
by DJCahill on Aug 30, 2008 6:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and go for it...
it’s comments like that and the post-2004 election map that depicted the red states as “Jesusland” that divide this country even moreso, pushing a lot of people further away from the Democratic party.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 30, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
those folks should sail off the edge of the earth and call it a day
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
so you could celebrate
and dance in the streets
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 30, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lets take that question up when it comes up, ok?
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is Obama’s experience in foreign relations? Palin has been an elected official for 14 years, while Obama has only been one for two years. She’s led a state government, while Obama has no executive experience. And he’s a #1 on the ticket, she’s a #2.
God is the Creator. And He created and loves that fifth child.
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't she a creationist?
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 30, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't reading the above...
….boy do i have egg on my face… at least its not dinosaur egg… cause we all know they weren’t in the bible… they were jusy made up by a giant conspiracy to debunk religion…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 30, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Get your facts straight.
Obama has been an elected official for more than two years. Foreign policy probably comes up a lot more in the senate than in the Alaska governor’s office.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 30, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Technically, yes
he has been in for more than two years, but he’s spent the rest of the time campaigning.
Palin may not have foreign policy experience, but she has executive experience that even the other three men don’t have.
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been an elected official since 1997 you illiterate boob
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 30, 2008 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected
Sorry, I was thinking of his time as a US Senator, and overlooked his time as an Illinois Senator.
I see that you’re a real champion of civil discourse.
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Brian said.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 30, 2008 6:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Brian and T said.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 30, 2008 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're being disingenous
to infer from that article that she is a “creationist” who doesn’t believe in evolution through natural selection.
by Randy Richardson on Aug 29, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
aren't creationists...
…pretty against the whole evolution thing in general…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Aug 30, 2008 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
From our good friend, Wiki...
“Creationism is the religious belief that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe were created in their original form by a deity (often the Abrahamic God of Judaism, Christianity and Islam) or deities, whose existence is presupposed.”
My general understanding is that there are lot of religious people who believe that evolution is simply the path used by God to create.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Aug 30, 2008 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I believe
But that’s not what I want taught in public schools. People are free to choose whether or not evolution is God’s tool…that’s for the home and church to talk about.
I don’t consider myself a “creationist” because most “creationists” don’t think anywhere near the way I do. Some may, but most do not. But I think it’s great you pointed out that you can be a man of both God and Darwin and it’s not a contradiction.
by Black Francis on Aug 30, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bible doesn’t say how God created, it simply says that He created. The Bible isn’t a science book, but it matches up well with the scientific evidence that life came about through a miraculous act of the Creator God. At any rate, creationism should get equal time with evolution in the public school classroom – then let people decide for themselves.
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why should...
…public schools be required to give equal time to the Bible? Given I’m a liberal, but I’m also a Christian and I DO NOT want public anything screwing around with what’s in the Bible. These people can’t even teach math.
What you have to understand is that inserting religion into government will NOT help religion. It can only screw things up. Just look at history.
by Black Francis on Aug 30, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I said
was that creationism as an origin of life should be taught side-by-side with the theory of evolution in public schools, not that the Bible should be taught in public schools. And who are “these people” who can’t teach math?
Concerning religion and government, what you need to understand is that our nation has a strong Christian heritage. By its very nature, government is power-seeking and tries to generate its own moral legitimacy for its decisions. Yet history reveals that government needs an independent conscience, an effective moral resistance, and the church has been the institution that has best fulfilled that role. Government needs the moral vision of the church, and the church mustn’t abdicate its all-important role. As a Christian you should know that Christianity should be out in the marketplace of ideas.
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teaching
When it comes to teaching things in public schools, teachers should be guided by the consensus of experts in a field when determining what to teach. Almost all experts don’t agree with the planned creation idea. So many don’t agree you have a consensus that you can teach in public schools. If you want to teach creationist theories, teach them in Sunday School. Separation of Church and state ftw.
Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!
by DerekSTheRed on Aug 30, 2008 2:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who are these ‘experts’? Are they not Darwinists and anti-theists who want to dissuade true freedom of thought in this area? What’s wrong with allowing creationism and evolution to be taught side-by-side, and letting people think and choose for themselves?
Intelligent design simply teaches that “certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected (random) process such as natural selection.” That’s it. It does not actually attempt to define or describe that cause. Most scientists who subscribe to intelligent design do believe in some form of evolution. And some of them are not even believers in the Bible—they are secularists. They simply believe that Darwinism does not have all the answers, especially about how life originated. (Darwin himself never pretended certainty on that.)
You don’t need to follow the Darwinist line that everything you disagree with must be squashed. Dare to think for yourself. You might just learn what the Darwinists and the anti-theists do not want you to know…
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why creationism should not be taught in science class.
It’s not science. It’s that simple. It’s faith and should be taught at home/church.
Listen, do you really want the public school board deciding how your child is taught the creation story? As a parent, I’ll handle that and anything else about the Bible myself, thank you very much. The teachers can stick to the subjects they went to school for.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 30, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Modern science arose b/c of the unique contribution of Christianity to Western culture. Up until the latter part of the 19th century, scientists were typically Christians who saw no conflict between their faith and their science. The idea that science and religion don’t go together is a relatively recently-developed myth. But during the last 30 years or so there has been a renewed interest in the relationship between science and Christianity. They aren’t adversaries, but rather allies in the search for truth.
Do you want your child to be taught that we came from apes as if that was fact, without an alternative viewpoint?
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow...
“Modern science arose b/c of the unique contribution of Christianity to Western culture”…seriously?
If you want to learn about creationism go to church!
And to your last question. Yes.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 30, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice close-minded perspective. Too bad for your child.
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right back at ya...
Look at how closed minded you are being about science. Very sad.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 30, 2008 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m all for science – you don’t follow an argument very well…
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep your silly (to me) faith off of my unborn children, jackass.
That’s the point.
If I had kids I wouldn’t want them getting lectured at school about talking snakes and magical kind-hearted zombies and massive global inbreeding and bearded men building arcs cause they heard the mystical voice of some flying spaghetti monster in the sky.
And I can’t even begin to tell you what’s wrong with this quote:
“Up until the latter part of the 19th century, scientists were typically Christians who saw no conflict between their faith and their science. The idea that science and religion don’t go together is a relatively recently-developed myth.”
Do you really believe this?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 30, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ever hear the names
Kepler, Boyle, Maxwell, Faraday, Kelvin (among many others)?
The rest of your post is so shallow-minded that it doesn’t deserve a response.
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Weak sauce
I mean, of course scientists back in the day were typically Christians… cause up until then pretty much all learned Western peoples were Christians. Doesn’t prove shit. And it doesn’t mean their faith based beliefs weren’t at odds with their scientific beliefs.
And I don’t know how the rest of my post was shallow minded. I’ll admit I’m a pretty hardcore atheist so I’m not to up on the bible, but I thought that was a pretty accurate description of the shit I learned back in Sunday school.
But all of that isn’t even the point. The point is that this is supposed to be a country of free religion so we shouldn’t teach any one particular faith’s crazy views of how we all came to be in public government-funded schools.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Aug 30, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you would read and study those scientists, you would discover that their Christian faith actually inspired and informed their scientific endeavors.
Sounds like your Sunday school had some pretty crazy and bizarre ideas about God and faith. Such false ideas distort your image of God into something that the Bible doesn’t teach at all. I wouldn’t believe in the kind of image of God that you described, either.
The question of how we came to be is a philosophical one. If you say that religious thought should be totally banned from the classroom, then what philosophy are we left with? Atheism. Should an atheistic worldview be taught at the exclusion of all others?
President John Adams once said, "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." The US was founded on Christian principles and has a rich Christian heritage. That reality should be acknowledged in our society, and certainly on the question of the origin of life the Christian viewpoint should be taught. Whether people believe it or not is up to them.
I’ll need to run now, but I’ll check in tomorrow (if there’s anything to check).
by 4Him on Aug 30, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You seem to be under the assumption
That moral people are only those who subscribe to a religion.
Religion being totally banned from the classroom falls under the belief in seperation of Church and State. Evolution is a scientific theory that is supported by large amounts of evidence and is not formally associated with religion, so it is taught in public schools. As earlier stated, Creationism isn’t supported by evidence but solely by faith which falls under the category of “Church” while public education falls under the governmental institution of “State”. Once/If creationism is supported by evidence, I wouldn’t mind it being taught as an alternative view to evolution. However, until that time, it should be considered a religious viewpoint and be taught only in private schools.
by hiafex on Aug 30, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well put
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 30, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
rec
+ fact
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 31, 2008 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two questions for you
1. Where do you think the concept of separation of Church and State came from (and what was its original purpose)?
2. Is creation by Darwinist evolution more observable than supernatural creation by God?
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 7:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
2. yes
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 31, 2008 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It really
Doesn’t matter where it came from, or what its original purpose was, does it?
Also, how can one observe a discrete event in the past?
by brettgardner on Aug 31, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It matters because
the phrase separation of Church and State is traced to a letter written by Thomas Jefferson in 1802 to the Danbury Baptists in which he reassured them that their religious freedom should be protected. The “wall of separation” was erected to protect the Church from the domination of government, not the other way around. Nowadays you hear it used as people are on this blog – that it was meant to keep the Church or religious thought out of government. Nonsense!
Christians were at the forefront of living out the concept of separation of Church and State. They believed that since the State can’t transform the human soul (only God’s Spirit can do that), government shouldn’t try to establish or interfere with the Church. But to suggest that the purpose of the Church and State separation was to keep religion out of politics reveals ignorance of our history.
As I argued above, government actually needs the moral vision of the Church, b/c public policies have to emerge from a moral consensus. That’s why for over 200 years Christians have actively pursued Biblical justice and righteousness in society: the abolitionist movement, the establishment of public education and public hospitals, prison reform and civil rights among many other examples. Christian values have been at the cutting edge in shaping our national character.
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 11:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh...
“government actually needs the moral vision of the Church”. No it doesn’t. My morals are just fine without religion, and so are many others.
You love to talk about all the great things Christianity has done, fair enough. How about all the horrible things it has done as well? Your “biblical justice and righteousness in society” is just crap and has never applied to everyone in a society but rather those that you feel deserve it.
And as for your seperation of church and state argument, that’s just your interpretation or the writing. Like many things with Jefferson and the founding fathers it could be interpreted in many ways. Of course someone of faith is going to interpret it that way. You can spin that to your beliefs all you want. My religious freedom should be protected as well. From people like you, that want to force it down everyone’s throats.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 31, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
one thing about this whole evo. vs creationism debate
theory of evolution says nothing about life’s origins, merely how it develops over time. So it is possible to believe in both without conflict. creationists should really be debating over the theory of abiogenesis
by cashman on Aug 31, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Valid point
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 31, 2008 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is where it becomes important to actually define evolution, b/c Darwinists who believe in naturalistic evolution do argue that the theory encompasses the origin of life as well.
Natural selection certainly occurs, but no one has evidence that it can accomplish the creative acts that Darwinists claim it can. As an explanation for changes in populations, Darwinism is a verified doctrine. As an explanation of how complex organisms came into existence in the first place, it is just another philosophy.
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait a second
are you calling believing in evolution, a whole seperate religion? This is where I stop arguing
by cashman on Aug 31, 2008 10:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here is how Darwinist George Gaylord Simpson defines “the meaning of evolution”:
"…all the objective phenomena of the history of life can be explained by purely naturalistic or…materialistic factors. They are readily explicable on the basis of differential reproduction in populations and of the mainly random interplay of the known processes of heredity…Man is the result of a purposeless and natural process that did not have him in mind.
In the Darwinist view (the official view of mainstream science), God clearly had nothing to do with evolution.
by 4Him on Sep 1, 2008 6:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is actually at issue
is not the specifics of evolution vs. the specifics of Genesis. Rather, at issue are two worldviews: the claim that life is the product of impersonal forces vs. the claim that life was designed by an intelligent agent.
by 4Him on Sep 1, 2008 6:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As you said above
separation of church and state is about protecting the church as much as the state. The two worldviews above are indeed different but perhaps not irreconcilable. Many scientists believe that God created the universe and set in motion the process of evolution as part of that.
Whatever you believe, evolution is science, creationism (of any religion) is faith. Keep the faith stories out of the classroom and keep the science out of the church whenever possible.
Nothing is gained by teaching creation in the school. Who’s account of creation do you teach? It is ridiculous to choose Christianity’s account simply because of majority. What about in school systems featuring large numbers of other religions? Is it ok to teach all of their creation stories as well?
To say that kids of other beliefs must sit and listen to the Christian creation story in a public school is nothing more than religious bigotry. To pretend that you can create some sort of curriculum that is completely ecumenical and/or interfaith and still effective — and not have individual teachers bend it to their beliefs (or lack thereof) is laughable.
There are a million problems with teaching anything religious in a public school setting. Teach it at home and at the church and you don’t trample on anyone’s rights, and you make sure your kids hear the things you want them to taught in a way you support.
Keep religion out of the science class for your own sake. Evangelism should not be a matter of forced education or left up to any random science teacher.
I just cannot believe that any Christian would want a science teacher – who in all likelihood does not share your beliefs — to teach their children about God’s creation.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 1, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whatever you believe, evolution is science, creationism (of any religion) is faith.
This statement is much too simplified – be careful about using labels. The effect of saying something like this is not very different from saying that the former is true and the latter is fantasy. When the doctrines of science are taught as fact, then whatever those doctrines exclude can’t be true. By using labels, objections to naturalistic evolution can be dismissed without a fair hearing.
Concerning what to teach in schools: you don’t teach any particular religion. You teach intelligent design. As mentioned above, intelligent design simply teaches that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected (random) process such as natural selection." It does not actually attempt to define or describe that cause. That can be done outside the classroom.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 2:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, what your point?
just because people think god doesn’t have anything to do with evolution, doesn’t mean they are non religious.
by cashman on Sep 1, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you missed the all-encompassing nature of the justice and righteousness in the examples above – those changes transformed all of society, not just “those who I feel deserve it.”
So government doesn’t need the moral restraint of the Church? Well, the record of atheistic regimes is, shall we say, less than inspiring. The Soviet Union, Red China, and Cambodia killed tens of millions of people. For men like Stalin and Mao, people were expendable b/c they were not created in the image of a personal God. Instead, they were objects being manipulated by impersonal historical forces.
One atheist understood the moral consequences of his unbelief: That was Nietzsche, who argued that God is dead, but acknowledged that without God, there could be no binding and objective moral order.
Where do you think your morals actually come from? And in what way do you think I want to “force religion down everyone’s throats”?
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My morals...
come form how I was raised. What I was taught is right from wrong. I feel like you want to foce religion upon people by saying things like it should be taught in school.
I would hardly call the 3 examples you used as “atheistic regimes” as well. They are just non-Christian regimes. Christian regimes have killed more than any throughout history as well, so that is not a valid argument either.
Look, we just see things very differently. I feel like many religious people, you claim to have all the answers. Sorry, but I don’t think you or religion does. I will stick to scientific and historical fact and you can stick to religious mythology. Neither one of us is going to change the others opinion so I think this discussion ends here for me. Nice debate, sorry if I offended you in any way. At times I can be rather crass when discussing religion as I feel just as strongly about my beliefs as you do about yours.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 31, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those regimes were definitely anti-God and even claimed that God doesn’t exist, so they were atheistic. The Crusades were certainly terrible, but even there they were ‘Christian’ in name only. When you say “Christian regimes”, I don’t know what you are referring to, but to claim that they “killed more than any throughout history” is a bold-faced lie.
When did I say that religion should be taught in school? What I’m saying is that if evolution is taught in school as an origin of life, then creationism should be given equal time. That’s not shoving religion down everyone’s throats. What is happening in schools today (and it’s been happening for many years) is that students are being force-fed a Darwinian worldview with no competing viewpoint.
I wanted to talk to you about morals, but as you said, it’s probably best to leave it here. I will say that Christianity is based on historical facts, and I hope that someday your eyes will be opened to the truth. At any rate, I appreciate the tone of your last paragraph, and thanks for discussing.
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know about the others
But I wasn’t taught that the Natural Selection theory was what created life. In fact, the title of Darwin’s book is “Origin of Species” not origin of life. Those who have translated Darwin’s ideals into that of a creation theory are interpreting it wrongly. This is why I understand why evolution is taught in schools, whereas creationism is suggesting how life began without any concrete proof. I feel that you’re confusing the origin of life with evolution/natural selection. I don’t believe in teaching about the origin of life because there aren’t any scientifically valid theories.
by hiafex on Aug 31, 2008 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
You must have gone to schools that were quite different than the ones that taught some of the rubbish that I and many others received. But see above in the response to cashman concerning the Darwinist definition of evolution and the “clash of worldviews”.
Does this mean that you believe in microevolution but not macroevolution?
by 4Him on Sep 1, 2008 6:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
micro and macro are the same
just on different time scales.
by cashman on Sep 1, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what a Darwinist would say. But it’s only a working assumption, not a proven proposition. Feel free to make the unwarranted leap from changes within species to changes from one species to another if you like, but don’t pretend that the scientific method has anything to do with it. In other words, it’s an unproven notion.
by 4Him on Sep 1, 2008 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
per wikipedia
The attempt to differentiate between microevolution and macroevolution is considered to have no scientific basis by any mainstream scientific organization, including the American Association for the Advancement of Science.2
by cashman on Sep 1, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
mainstream science = Darwinist view
Darwinists resist talking about micro and macro evolution. They like to insist that it is a single process instead of facing the scientific evidence. They like to cover up difficulties by using the blanket term ‘evolution’.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 2:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’m well aware of where it came from. You’re not the first smug churchie to point out that little gem.
But it doesn’t matter where it came from. The point remains the same whether it’s 400 years old or 40 minutes.
by brettgardner on Aug 31, 2008 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Smug churchie” – cute.
So what is the point, then?
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point
That others were making is that they want as little cross-over between the two as possible. The historical significance of that desire, the background, context, and quotes—-they’re all irrelevant. It’s an instant desire, not one that need be seeded in a rich tradition.
by brettgardner on Aug 31, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Historical context certainly is important – why do you think we have a written Constitution?
Christians shouldn’t go around ‘imposing’ their beliefs on others, but separation doesn’t mean that religious truth shouldn’t ever influence public policy (as mentioned, the Church has historically been instrumental in positively affecting public policy). Christians have the right for their voice to be heard as well as anyone else in the Republic.
by 4Him on Sep 1, 2008 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
God...
You really have poor comprehension skills.
For one, I don’t need a lecture on context or especially the Constitution from you.
Second, I said others wanted to see as little as possible, not a complete elimination, which is impossible.
I happen to agree with your underlying premise. I just think you’re annoying and aggravating.
by brettgardner on Sep 1, 2008 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you not say
that context is irrelevant? I don’t know what kind of comprehension skills you’re looking for if you don’t mean what you type.
I’m not lecturing you , but rather seeking to exchange ideas. I don’t mean to annoy you. Communication is already difficult enough in this type of forum.
by 4Him on Sep 1, 2008 4:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Context is not important for people who want to see as little interaction between the two as possible. That requires no background. The church and the state could each be a day old with that mindset. History and context are irrelevant in that case.
by brettgardner on Sep 1, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re saying that context isn’t important if some of us don’t want it to be important. That’s not a very good prescription for order in society. “Everyone did what was right in his own eyes.”
Look, it was Christians who first formulated the principle of separation of church and state, beginning with Augustine’s distinction between the City of God and the City of Man. God has ordained government as a separate institution with its own distinctive purposes. Government is a civil function, not a church function. But that doesn’t mean that the Church should abdicate its role as the conscience of society and as a restraint against the misuse of governing authority.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
People disagree with you. There’s no reason for you to assume that your premises are correct.
Also, please please please try to understand what my point about context is. I can’t keep explaining it over and over again.
by brettgardner on Sep 2, 2008 6:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you’re referring to things that I’ve mentioned from history, then those aren’t just premises, they are facts. But you’re certainly free to disagree.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do
A great disservice to your religion by constantly deflecting any argument against you, and by continuously failing to grasp a simple concept.
by brettgardner on Sep 2, 2008 8:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...
Your problem is that I’m following your bogus argument too well. The fact that you actually think science is where it is because of religion rather than in spite of it amuses me.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 30, 2008 7:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So be amused
Here are more scientists who were Christians: Copernicus, Galileo, Newton, Pascal. They believed that the world had an orderly structure that could be scientifically studied b/c it was created by an orderly God.
Only one civilization produced the experimental method we call science. That civilization was Europe at the end of the Middle Ages – a culture that was steeped in Christian faith.
Science writer Loren Eiseley says, “Experimental science began its discoveries…in the faith…that it was dealing with a rational universe controlled by a Creator who did not act upon whim.”
Science historian A.R. Hall insists that the idea of ‘laws’ in nature came from “the Hebraic and Christian belief in a deity who was at once Creator and Lawgiver.”
Sociologist R.K. Merton says that modern science owes its existence to Biblical moral obligation. God made the world, and we have an obligation to study it for His glory and for the benefit of mankind.
Those scholars are not Christains, yet they are expressing a consensus among historians that Christian faith actually propelled the development of modern science.
God created and sustains the natural laws that scientists appeal to in their theories. So scientists who reject Christianity are actually cutting off the branch that they’re sitting on.
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your missing the point...
as usual. Just because someone was a scientist and happened to be Christian doesn’t mean jack shit. Most people were in that time. Many were because they had to be or they were persecuted. I don’t think you really want to talk about history and Christinaity, especially in th Middle Ages. People had to be Christian then or else. Remember the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Hundered Years War, the list goes on. Many people didn’t have a choice in faith in Europe. that’s why religious freedom and seperation of church and state or important now. History has taught us to learn from our mistakes. Unfortunately there are still sheep like you who haven’t learned that.
And this statement… “God created and sustains the natural laws that scientists appeal to in their theories.” Is just ridiculous.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 31, 2008 11:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, is it your contention that "creationism" is science?
Because, you know, the entire scientific world considers evolution science.
Creationism, on the other hand, not so much.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Aug 30, 2008 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, creationism is not science. And no, the entire scientific world does not considers evolution science.
A ‘creationist’ is simply a person who believes that the world (and esp. mankind) was designed, and exists for a purpose. The Darwinist view (the official view of mainstream science) is opposed to the possibility that the natural world was designed by a Creator for a purpose. Evolutionists believe in naturalistic evolution, a purely materialistic process that has no direction and no conscious purpose.
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 9:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's not science...
…then why the hell should it be taught along side science???
I just don’t understand people like you. Your very own forefathers (and mine) came to this continent so that the government would not interfere with their faith. Many, many decades later and the Constitution was written, complete with the establishment clause.
If you let religious ideas into publicly financed schools, you’re going to have to give them ALL equal time. I say leave them all out. It’s not the schools’ job to teach this stuff. That’s exactly what parents and churches are for, and when you get down to it, schools and school districts are bureaucracies and I don’t think you realize what would happen if they started teaching this stuff. No thanks.
And, yeah, the entire scientific community considers evolution a science. Evidence and data are collected, observations are made, experiments are devised and executed. It’s a subject of widespread and continuous study and will be long after you and I have departed this mortal coil.
by Black Francis on Aug 31, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand your point about not wanting to allow all religions into schools, but again, that’s not what I’m arguing. By that same reasoning we shouldn’t allow naturalistic evolution (and the Darwinian worldview that stems from it) to be taught on its own without the Creationist viewpoint as well.
Concerning the origin of life, is Darwinian evolution any more scientific than Creationism? Answer: Absolutely not.
by 4Him on Sep 1, 2008 5:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely it is
There is a lot of evidence that supports micro and macro evolution. Basically, the strongest survive. Those organisms which acquire traits that are advantageous in terms of reproduction, self-defense, hunting, or what have you will thrive and continue to evolve.
If you think God created these changes by divine intervention, that cannot be tested and is not science. We can, however, observe and test gene mutations and all sorts of things. What you hold is a belief and there’s nothing wrong with that, but if we start teaching it in public schools we’re going to have a lot of problems.
Take your kids to church. Teach them yourself. Be a parent.
by Black Francis on Sep 1, 2008 11:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Natural Selection
Doesn’t/shouldn’t involve the origin of life. I don’t think anyone has come up with a scientifically valid theory for the beginning of life. This is why some believe in creationism while others (like me) choose to believe that life came from somewhere/something that hasn’t been explained.
by hiafex on Sep 1, 2008 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Origin of Life
I seriously doubt it’s given anything more than a passing mention in high school biology. I’m sure they devote a chapter or maybe two to natural selection, but most of it is DNA and “what’s a nucleus?” and photosynthesis. Really basic stuff.
by Black Francis on Sep 1, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely not
Darwinian evolution can’t explain the origin of life, so concerning this issue, how can it be more scientific? It can’t.
Further, while there is certainly evidence of changes within a given species, there is no evidence of changes from one species to another (birds to mammals, apes to humans, etc.). There are no transitional (intermediate) forms.
The advance of science is not raising new challenges to Christian faith, as we are often told. Rather, it fails to support any naturalistic theory of life’s origin. What it does support is the idea of intelligent design. And that is what should be taught (maybe without even using the word ’God’) in schools.
Take your kids to church. Teach them yourself. Be a parent.
I do all these things – what does this have to do with the issue at hand?
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 4:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said it because
Natural selection and faith aren’t all that hard to reconcile, and parents are the best people to do that. If you leave it up to the school you’re asking for trouble whether or not God is ever mentioned, because God is exactly what’s implied. And it’s implied very strongly.
Darwin never attempted to explain the origin of life itself. There are people who have theories about that as I’m sure you’re aware, and it’s trying to be replicated in research labs across the world. If they pull off creating a simple organism out of the building blocks they think existed in the primordial ooze, then I still fail to see how that’s a threat to religion. God could have triggered that.
There is evidence of changes form species to species.
by Black Francis on Sep 2, 2008 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So when Darwinian evolution is taught, what is implied (if not explicitly stated)? There is no God. You’d rather that students be taught only that, without even being given the opportunity to hear about Intelligent Design? Sure they can be taught at home, but many of them aren’t, and even the ones that are constantly bombarded with the message of naturalistic evolution.
I repeat: There is no evidence of one species changing into another species. Darwinists use bad philosophy to cover up the problem. If our philosophy demands that small changes add up to big ones, then the scientific evidence is irrelevant. They need to provide not a philosophical principle, but a scientific theory of how macro-evolution can occur.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a lot to disagree with in this post.
There is no God.
Why does it mean that? Could God not have created evolution? Why is your view of Christianity so small and defensive? It is not necessary to believe that God created the world exactly as it is today anymore than it is necessary to believe it was created in 6 actual days Monday – Saturday, so to speak.
Sure they can be taught at home, but many of them aren’t, and even the ones that are constantly bombarded with the message of naturalistic evolution.
If they aren’t taught at home it is not the school’s responsibility to play parent and pick up the slack. It is also not the school’s responsibility to make sure kids’ faith isn’t tested. What kind of weak faith withstands no test or can’t reason out thoughts about evolution?
As for your second paragraph, you are confusing both faith and science with knowing all the answers. Some things are just unknowable, or at least close to it. That is why both faith and science exist.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 2, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evolution
as it is typically presented in textbooks and museums, confuses science with naturalistic philosophy. Many secular scientists even insist that only naturalistic explanations qualify as science. The naturalistic worldview claims that the universe is the product of blind, purposeless forces.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 10:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow...
…i don’t see natural selection as blind and purposeless…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 2, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Curious
How many Biology textbooks have you combed through? I happen to have a lot of experience in that area, and I’m curious where your great weight of authority lies.
by brettgardner on Sep 2, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evolution and God
It absolutely does not imply that there’s no God. It is what it is. People got scared of the whole theory a long time ago and deemed it heretical, though.
In my mind, God created the whole system. Science attempts to explain how it works. I don’t see a contradiction there.
There is evidence of in the fossil record of sea animals with leg-like appendages as well as a growing body of evidence that the birds of today are descended from dinosaurs.
by Black Francis on Sep 2, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are incredibly stupid
Who are these ‘experts’?
Richard Dawkins comes to mind.
Read this book and reconsider your position: it’s truly laughable.
I want to persuade the reader, not just that the Darwinian world-view happens to be true, but that it is the only known theory that could, in principle, solve the mystery of our existence.
http://www.amazon.com/Blind-Watchmaker-Evidence-Evolution-Universe/dp/0393315703/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220141744&sr=8-1
"I’ll say something that doesn’t need context: anyone who is a Mariner’s fan is a douchebag." - FuturePants
by Chase Irwin on Aug 30, 2008 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see
that you’re another champion of civil discourse.
Richard Dawkins? An expert on the origin of life? Admittedly he is one of the most influential figures in evolutionary science, but he is a rabid anti-Christian who religiously promotes atheism. The Blind Watchmaker talks about biology, but its main thrust is a sustained argument for atheism.
Since we’re into recommending books, may I suggest Phillip E. Johnson’s Darwin on Trial, Michael Behe’s Darwin’s Black Box, and also Behe’s latest, The Edge of Evolution: The Search for the Limits of Darwinism.
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Btw
What makes you think that the Darwinian worldview is true? And how does it solve the mystery of our existence?
by 4Him on Aug 31, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey 4Him
I have essentially the exact same views as you, you’re the first one like me on here. Do you know of Bryan College in Tennessee? Should I consider going there?
"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain
by dstar442005 on Aug 31, 2008 8:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hi. Sorry, but I don’t, mainly b/c I’ve lived in Europe for so many years. The website info looks very good. I’d like to gather some more info myself – do you have any idea what it costs per year?
by 4Him on Sep 1, 2008 5:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
…was that creationism as an origin of life should be taught side-by-side with the theory of evolution in public schools, not that the Bible should be taught in public schools. And who are "these people" who can’t teach math?
Concerning religion and government, what you need to understand is that our nation has a strong Christian heritage. By its very nature, government is power-seeking and tries to generate its own moral legitimacy for its decisions. Yet history reveals that government needs an independent conscience, an effective moral resistance, and the church has been the institution that has best fulfilled that role. Government needs the moral vision of the church, and the church mustn’t abdicate its all-important role. As a Christian you should know that Christianity should be out in the marketplace of ideas.
Those people who have a lot of trouble teaching math are obviously math teachers. I don’t want someone that’s gone no further than an undergraduate degree in education to teach anything to do with God or Faith. Some would evangelize, some would mock it, and it would turn out to be a big mess in general.
Don’t be so arrogant as to imply that I do not understand that this nation is largely Christian and always has been. Our government is elected, and nobody said politicians can’t base their own morality on their faith, whatever their faith may be. The church IS in the marketplace of ideas.
Institutionalizing faith is another matter entirely, though. Keep it out of the law, and preserve freedom of speech. We’ll be fine. Seriously.
Anyway, you know as well as I do that BOTH government and churches are power-seeking, so I sure don’t know why you’d want them to get all mixed up together. The worst of both would come out on top.
by Black Francis on Aug 31, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We seem to have been talking past each other somewhat.
My “What you need to understand” was in response to your “What you have to understand” from above (no arrogance intended). Concerning government, I’m not talking about some kind of “moral majority” power play, but rather approaching the State on the basis of principles that stem from a Christian world view (as has happened throughout our history).
You are correct in saying that the Church is in the marketplace of ideas, but there is a very powerful movement to eradicate its influence in all areas of society. You can sense that desire in many of the posters on this very thread.
by 4Him on Sep 1, 2008 4:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
…the Church is in the marketplace of ideas, but there is a very powerful movement to eradicate its influence in all areas of society.
I wouldn’t agree with that at all.
by Black Francis on Sep 1, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither would I
Actually I think their is a hugely misguided movement to dramatically assert the church’s influence in public life.
There has never been a time in history when religion dominated government that there wasn’t massive opression, murder, torture, wars, persecution, etc. This is true of Christian goverments as well as any other religion. Religion and government just do not mix. You are putting the entire country in the hands of a few fanatical people with extreme views and giving them power to force everyone to share their views. And it’s pretty foolish to think that’s ok as long as they share you views. If the country were to become more of a plurality of religions and Muslims started calling for more Islamic facets to be included in government the Christian Coalition would be forced to reexamine their stance on religion in public life.
It’s a slippery slope. Are things like prayers over the PA system before a football game really that important? Would 4him be ok with that prayers if it was led by a Muslim? A Pagan? You cannot have the government ok a prayer from just one religion.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 1, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
War on Christmas
The assertion that there’s a movement to eradicate religion from our culture is just a way to force religion into the public dialogue, and it’s not a very good way to do it in my opinion. Why do some people (Bill O’Reilly Jr’s) think they have to set up this straw man? What’s wrong with the old way of evangelizing? You know, helping people out and stuff like that. I know that most individual churches do help those in their community, and what the regional and national leadership of these denominations should do is promote and highlight that activity to show the rest of the world that Christians are kind and generous people. This “culture wars” nonsense pisses me off. It does nothing to serve God and in the end will actually drive people away from the Church. Like me. I don’t go to church because of this kind of bullshit. I don’t want to put my offering in the plate having no idea what it’s ultimately is used for, and I don’t want to hang around with a bunch of people who don’t even question it
End of rant..
by Black Francis on Sep 1, 2008 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BF
If you don’t recognize that secularists are systematically seeking to drive Christian influence out of society, then I don’t know what to tell you. There are too many examples to enumerate here.
P.S. If you are a Christian then you should go to church – for your sake and for the sake of others (and for God’s glory). You can surely find a good, Bible-believing one. And if you don’t know what the offering is being used for, then find out – church leaders need to be accountable to their people. In short, if you see hypocrisy or other negative influences in the church, then be a change agent in that place, but by all means don’t stay away.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 5:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4H
You’ve been watching too much Bill O’Reilly and Pat Robertson.
As for going to church, perhaps when I have a family. My mother got kicked out of a church when I was little and she was far, from from a rabble rouser. She simply asked why the pastor got a new car and a Hawaiian vacation every year. Then it was suddenly a huge issue that she was divorced and was harassed until she decided not to go anymore. Later in life I was sitting in a church service and suddenly the preacher started telling people who to vote for. On the way out I talked to several people about it and it wasn’t long before I got some flat-out threatening answering machine messages. So a few months later I started going to another church, and everything was fine for a while. It so happened that my cousin, who I was very close to, died of AIDS on a Friday and that Sunday I was greeted with an “all gays are going to hell” sermon.
You advise me to go to church and be an agent of change. That doesn’t work when you’re dealing with faith, at least not when you’re an outsider. And I’m not going to sit through a whole bunch of crazy sermons so I can make friends in a church for the sole purpose of leading an ideological coup de tat.
by Black Francis on Sep 2, 2008 7:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry to hear
about your bad experiences with churches. I know that can be very discouraging. There are good ones out there. Having said that, no church is perfect, as each one consists of fellow sinners (albeit saved by grace).
I’m not suggesting being an agent of change should be your primary reason for attending somewhere – that can only happen when you’ve been somewhere for awhile and really feel at home there.
Btw, I never watch Bill O’Reilly or Pat Robertson. :-)
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Each church consists of fellow sinners.
Exactly why I don’t want religion taught in the school. If taught in the home I know who is doing the teaching. If taught at church, at least I can pick the sinners teaching it. Most people have to rely on simple geography for schools and have no choice in teachers.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 2, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once again
the idea is not to teach religion in schools, but rather Intelligent Design.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm?
The both have the same root.
For what it’s worth, most people don’t learn anything in school, and rely on their parents, culture and own curiosity to constitute their education.
Why can’t we stick to real science in public school, and keep fairy tales where we store most of the dregs of society—private school?
by brettgardner on Sep 2, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you want to...
teach MY kid intelligent design?!… if so, then i think your kid should have to read the koran in church on sunday for two weeks a year… it seems like decent trade…
just so they get THE IDEA of other religions…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 2, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In case you missed it
we were talking about public schools.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
and Intelligent Design is religion and doesn’t belong there. They are not two different things, although people pushing ID like to pretend they are.
As I’ve said before, ID, prayer in schools, etc. these are NOT the things Christians should bo focusing their attention on. Invite people to church instead of trying to inject church into the school.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 2, 2008 11:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well...
…the point i was making is that if you are MAKING my kid listen to something i’d rather he didn’t somewhere he shouldn’t… i wouldn’t mind you doing the same… find a cheap private school that teaches what you want… or find a public school systems that teaches what you want… but changing public schools nationally is just ludacris…
at that point the responsiblity is on the parents to teach their children anything outside the scope of whats taught in school, which should remain scientific in nature…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 2, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh
Btw, I never watch Bill O’Reilly or Pat Robertson. :-)
Well, if you don’t, then you listen to people who do.
I wouldn’t expect any churches to be perfect, but these that I went to had elements of EVIL in them. Yeah. Evil. Bigotry is evil. So forget it. Maybe if I move north again I’ll try, but down here it’s been a swing and a miss every time. So I’ll keep things personal. There’s no way I can get comfortable in that environment.
by Black Francis on Sep 2, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who wants religion to dominate government? What “Christian governments” are you talking about? We’re not talking about trying to create a theocracy here.
As mentioned above, government is a civil function, not a church function. That’s why Christians have often been the greatest defenders of religious liberty – for all faiths.Compare the Western model of government, shaped historically by Christianity, with an Islamic model of government, which recognizes no distinction between Church and State and which often greatly oppresses and persecutes religious minorities.
The point is that the Church needs to be able to maintain its voice – as the conscience of society and as a restraint against the misuse of governing authority.
Concerning prayer at school-sponsored events, there are definitely bigger issues than that. But if there was opposition to someone saying a public prayer, then having a moment of silence (so that everyone could pray to whomever he/she wished, or not at all) would probably be the way to go.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 5:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Erroneous
“That’s why Christians have often been the greatest defenders of religious liberty – for all faiths.”
No, much more frequently, they have not been.
“Compare the Western model of government, shaped historically by Christianity, with an Islamic model of government, which recognizes no distinction between Church and State and which often greatly oppresses and persecutes religious minorities.”
True, Islam recognizes no distinctiion between Church and State. However, Islam has historically been very tolerant of the other faiths. The Koran mandates this. Witness the Ottoman Empire or the Moors in Spain.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 2, 2008 9:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But how can I believe you?
You don’t even have a religious screen name.
by brettgardner on Sep 2, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bg
Have you ever gotten an award for cutest statements on this blog? If not, you should.
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
I actually have received such an award.
by brettgardner on Sep 2, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
too bad...
…i missed the acceptance speech… i was trying to stop hurleyhurler from spiking the punch.
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 2, 2008 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, much more frequently, they have not been.
Please explain.
However, Islam has historically been very tolerant of the other faiths.
You’ve got to be kidding. That’s why Muslims are killing Christians, Jews and fellow Muslims in many countries of the world, right?
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
…a christian has NEVER killed a muslin… for being religious you sure are pretty short on your history… there was this little thing called the crusades where christians killed muslims just for being muslim…. but hey… they deserved it… they were on our land before we thought it was ours…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 2, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You use the term ‘Christian’ very loosely. When I use the term, I’m referring to evangelical Christians. Those involved in the Crusades were ‘religious’, and the Crusades were certainly a terrible time in history. But that was 1000 years ago – is that the best you have?
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
alright...
first i don’t use the term losely at all, i think you shy away from being pinned for something you personally didn’t do based on what you belief to be a GOOD association with religion… just like its kinda silly to paint all muslims as killers of jews and christians just based on their muslim belief…
just as you see the crusades as a “catholic” thing… there are many different sects within the muslim religion and they aren’t ALL to blame for violence perpetrated against the entire world…
and just because something 1000 years ago… and not within the last two years doesn’t mean its not important, don’t be a short sighted american… at least open up to that…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 2, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's right
most Muslims aren’t like the radical ones who do the killing (I guess I should have put the word ‘radical’ before the word ‘Muslims’ in my comment above). And as I said, the Crusades were a terrible time in history.
Now how about evangelical Christians of the contemporary world – are they not for religious liberty of all faiths?
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
T Ball gave several good examples for me.
If you want more a recent one, I’d point you to the consistently and systematically intolerant behavior Christians have displayed towards Jews in most of the Western world until pretty recently.
And you seem to use the term Christian only in manners that suit your myopic agenda.
You condemn all Muslims for the acts of a few, and then turn around and cry foul when the transgressions of a few Christians are equated with the same.
You seem to get most of your history from the pulpit.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 2, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re. Muslims – see above
What Christians have been consistently and systematically intolerant toward Jews?
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh. The ridiculousness of that question floors me.
Are you SERIOUSLY denying that Jews haven’t been subjected to overt bigotry and discrimination by the Christian majorities they resided with?
Really?
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 2, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude just give up
Old war wound. Acts up around morons.
by TheBZA on Sep 2, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are countless examples
of Christians not upholding religious liberty in history. Have you not heard of the Protestant Reformation? The Crusades? The Inquisition? Anti-Semitism?
You cannot be an honest Christians if you’re not willing to acknowledge the faults of its more radical practitioners.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 2, 2008 10:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not following you here: The Protestant reformation was a reformation of the Catholic Church. The Inquisition was exclusively within the Catholic Church. The Crusades – see above. Anti-Semitism – what do you mean?
by 4Him on Sep 2, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
So, Catholics aren’t Christians? The Protestant Reformation included a lot of intolerance from both sides, and was only necessary because of the church’s own corruption. If you want protestant intolerance look at your own statement above, which seems to imply that only Catholics have behaved badly withint Christianity.
Also, protestants burned witches in Salem, lynched blacks in the south, discriminated liberally against Jews in Europe and America for hundreds of years, and frequently insult every other religion.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 2, 2008 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll go with
Ben’s answer above. I don’t know much about the topic myself. But, I did read the link and didn’t get the impression that she wanted to discredit the teaching of evolution. She was just open to a classroom debate. I don’t think that’s bad thing.
by Randy Richardson on Aug 30, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, there is way too much to respond to
on this post already, but I skimmed it.
First of all, you have to be dumb to really think that the McCain campaign is putting all of its hope of winning this election on this pick, and her bringing in the disenfranchised hillary vote. No VP is really going to make that much of a difference, we all know that.
What this will do, is give McCain more of a bump than Obama got from Biden, and I’ll tell you why. Biden is a guy that, for people who are even susceptible to being swayed by the VP selection, isn’t that interesting to people. They’ve seen him, they’ve seen that he wasn’t picked by his party to be their nominee, he’s just not that impressive to them. Palin is someone that people don’t know about, and the sheer curiosity about her will cause people to take a closer look at the Republican ticket.
She is well spoken, fresh, young and someone that people should be able to trust. Isn’t that the most important thing in a VP? You just have to trust that they’re going to be capable in case they’re called to serve the highest office. She has 60+ days to earn that trust, and she will be fine.
I think she’s just as good, if not a better pick than Biden. Democrats would be really dumb to make too much of an issue out of the “inexperience” thing. Sure, she’s a “heartbeat away from the presidency” (as some Obama spokesman just said), but there is a huge difference between the inexperience of the no.2 and the inexperience of the no.1. Hell, she has more executive experience than all 3 of the other guys, right? There was a reason that Obama didn’t talk about experience in his speech last night.
"that suzuki guy should go back to making cars" - My girlfriend after C.J.'s close in game 2
by tdi1985 on Aug 29, 2008 12:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think she’s just as good, if not a better pick than Biden. Democrats would be really dumb to make too much of an issue out of the "inexperience" thing. Sure, she’s a "heartbeat away from the presidency" (as some Obama spokesman just said), but there is a huge difference between the inexperience of the no.2 and the inexperience of the no.1. Hell, she has more executive experience than all 3 of the other guys, right? There was a reason that Obama didn’t talk about experience in his speech last night.
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good points
I think both Biden and Palin shore up weaknesses (inexperience and age, respectively), and thus appear to admit that they were weaknesses to begin with.
by JBImaknee on Aug 29, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Palin can hold a candle to Biden's 26 years on the foriegn relations committee.
Biden personally know and has dealt with every head of state in every country in the world. He has negotiated with them in times of crisis and has worked to maintain the integrity of the US on the world stage for the past three decades.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
would he negogiate with the leaders of iran with no preconditions?
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I think he would be very tough with them as he has already voiced this over the years.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yet obama will
hmmmm
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope so
as opposed to McCain who seems to want to bomb first and ask questions later.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Aug 29, 2008 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he won't ask questions
no second-guessing there
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Aug 29, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you do know why that country hates us right?
they have pretty good reasons.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 2:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know
that no country anywhere can possibly have reason to hate us. We can set up dictatorships in their countries, and arm their dictators, but it doesn’t give their people the right to hate us. We are the USA! We are allowed to kill other countries democratically elected leaders if we want to. People around the world should love us, and if they don’t, they are ungrateful bastards.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.
by DJCahill on Aug 30, 2008 6:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nail on head
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Aug 30, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay...
Can Obama hold a candle to Biden’s experience?
Can he hold a candle to McCain’s experience on the Senate Armed Services Committee?
"that suzuki guy should go back to making cars" - My girlfriend after C.J.'s close in game 2
by tdi1985 on Aug 29, 2008 12:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The experience factor is the obvious issue for Obama, and it is obvious that is why he choes Biden.
Obama has wisdom and judgement far beyond his years and I think that is his edge over McCain.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"wisdom and judgement"
good job pulling that one from Obama’s speech from last night.
"that suzuki guy should go back to making cars" - My girlfriend after C.J.'s close in game 2
by tdi1985 on Aug 29, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we could use a heaping helping of wisdom and judgement after the last eight years
of incompetence of McCain/Bush and their failed policies.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think we could use someone
who is not the least qualified nominee in the history of our country
…but thats just me…
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have already had him in George W. Bush. Did'nt work out so well.
by 44FAN on Aug 29, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
how could bush have less experience than the least qualified nominee in history? if your agreeing its a given
Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark
by knockoutking on Aug 29, 2008 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
judgement and "temperment" was the speeches line
temperment was a very interesting word to use. it touched on something i think a lot of people have seen in mccain.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 30, 2008 2:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This already has like 300 comments
Insane, I think this place gets more comments than Dailykos.
Whats next in Adam’s blog empire, Cowboys and politics blogs??
by Sharky on Aug 29, 2008 12:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What's the address
of your blog?
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Aug 29, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions &nbs