…he ain’t going nowhere.

Danks
Volquez

to make a judgment on whether pitchers have as much upside as Greinke and at the same time wouldn’t fall in the category of “won’t be traded.” It’s sort of like when you thought that Francisco Liriano who was about the #2 pitching prospect in baseball at the time was a realistic return for Soriano and I didn’t. It was pretty hard for me to demonstrate to you that he wasn’t (especially since the Rangers seemed to be floating it out there), and likewise you to me that he was.

Also, I’m not one who thinks that these guys are readily available. How many teams can actually deal top under control pitchers? You almost always either have to have a situation like the Twins did, where their guy was not proven and they had about six others who were in the same range (obviously rare) or this approaching Greinke one, where he becomes less and less valuable to the Royals (and the Rangers) as he approaches FA because they’re not quite ready to win.

I can throw out some names like Telegraph did or add guys like Charlie Morton and Ryan Tucker, but the evidence you’re looking for of the type I’m referring to is better illustrated by rewinding just a few months. What young major league starting pitchers somewhere near Greinke’s talent level have been dealt or were known to be discussed in deals recently? Edinson Volquez, Matt Garza, Andrew Miller, Jair Jurrjens, and Gavin Floyd are some who were dealt. Joe Saunders, Cliff Lee, Ervin Santana, Mike Pelfrey, Ricky Nolasco, and Scott Baker were widely discussed but didn’t wind up being dealt. A few of those guys aren’t as talented as Greinke, but are performing at a really high level themselves, comparable to or better than his.

If I’d given you those names a year ago, you would have groaned at most of them, yet the majority of them are now in Greinke’s class. It’s not an easy way to go, but this is the trade-off for extra years. You’re basically talking about major leaguers who are still prospects.

Kevin Slowey
Jamie Shields
Matt Cain
Max Scherzer
One of the Florida Trio
Clay Buchholz
Dustin McGowan

you control them long enough to think that you will actually have a team around them in time. Two years is a little dicey. I do think that they can win in 2010, though, if they make the right moves around the one to get the prime pitcher. It’s just right on the edge for me, and it really becomes about price as to whether it makes sense, as I said earlier.

as a low risk/high reward type trade only. In his brief time in the majors, he hasn’t shown the promise that I think everyone thought he had when drafted. Granted he is still young, but you have to wonder if the promote and yank process that Cincy has undertaken on him has maybe taken a toll on his psyche. If that is the case that JD et al feel may be present, I think you look at a Salty + Brandon Puffer type would be the ideal trade.

This would still allow for multiple propects to be peddled in a trade for a starter with 3-4 years of service time with the ability to be a 1/2 starter… say maybe a trade with MIN for Perkins or Slowey? Something along the lines of Hurley/Harrison + JMJ + Whittleman?

operates, you’re looking at Borbon, Davis, Andrus and possibly Feliz. It may be that I’m half asleep, but I don’t seem to recall FLA getting fleeced too often in trades.

If Danks can continue to post 3.30 ERAs going forward, sure, he’s a legit #1/#2 guy. I think that’s very questionable, though.

Seems like other than stone-foot Vladdy they’re pretty damn good everywhere else.

but the point is that looking at the ERA leaders this year, you see a lot of guys who entered the league without future #1 hype. and looking at some of the biggest pitching flops of the year, you see a lot of guys (hughes, buchholz, bailey, etc) who had true #1 hype but failed to deliver for different reasons.

as someone pointed out above, i would rather have a solid rotation of effective workhorses like the white sox than a rotation with one or two studs and then filler like the Diamondbacks. Therefore, I would rather spread out these expendable resources to acquire a number of options, rather than hope that someone like Greinke can lead a rotation with a bunch of scrubs.

…Buchholz? do you really think the Red Sox are ready to give up on him?

Nope.

Bailey is an obvious one if he has indeed fallen out of favor in Cincy. I think a straight up Salty for Bailey would work out for both. Both players probably could use a change of scenery.

Also I would go after one of the Rays youngsters. With Price ready they will have to move one of their youngsters. You figure Garza and Price are not going anywhere. Kazmir they just locked up. So one of Shields, Sonnanstine, or Jackson could be available. Depending on what it would take to get one of them I think that should be explored.

How can you justify sending pretty damn good prospects for a gamble like this?

Should fans just not worry about if he wants to play longterm? I think we all know Hammy does.

Answer these questions for me OC. My argument is that the Greinke not wanting to play thing isnt old.

He is a guy that even though he has frontline potential could probably care less about his baseball future. R u sure the same could be said about Hammy?

…pitching depth.

i’m not very educated on the Marlins rotation, or if they have pitchers waiting in the wings.

but, people here seem to think we could just pluck a Buchholz, Billingsley, Greinke or Nolasco out of a rotation without having to send a pitcher back.