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Skills Showdown: The Battle of the Texas Backstops

Laird vs Teagarden vs Salty vs Max

Just a few quick observations about the four catchers on the 40 man roster.  I basically rip off the Sicklesian concept, but I also use the SABR six tool ratings to properly evaluate the catchers.  I wanted to take a step back and look at the specific skill sets of our catchers and rate them accordingly.  

There is also a poll on our main page.  If you get a chance, please weigh in with your observations.

 

**I appreciate the opportunity to plug my stuff on this board.  If this ever becomes an issue, I will discontinue this line of marketing.  Until that point, I will plug away.   I hope you enjoy this piece.  I will have an interview with LHP Tim Murphy posted later this week and hopefully a few thoughts from Neil Ramirez as well.  Thank you kindly.  


 

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Great work Jason

That was a very interesting read. I voted for Teagarden. I like all of our catchers but a healthy Teagarden gives you exactly what you need out of your catcher.

by Butters on Aug 3, 2008 1:21 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Great stuff

Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return

by Brett Perryman on Aug 3, 2008 1:25 AM CDT reply actions   1 recs

yeah

suck up bitch

"Over the years, my favorite pastime outside baseball is driving through a pasture looking at cattle." - Nolan Ryan

by hurlerhurley on Aug 3, 2008 1:34 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

TT

I’ll take Taylor Teagarden

Intetresting how you did this. I need tom. morning to absorb this. But I do like this.

So far not bad, Jason.

"Over the years, my favorite pastime outside baseball is driving through a pasture looking at cattle." - Nolan Ryan

by hurlerhurley on Aug 3, 2008 1:30 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

hmmm... Interesting

that is the cause

"Over the years, my favorite pastime outside baseball is driving through a pasture looking at cattle." - Nolan Ryan

by hurlerhurley on Aug 3, 2008 1:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so tough...

I’d say prior to this year, Laird is the obvious choice because he’s “shown it” in the majors; Salty was the biggest talent/highest upside; Teagarden was a surprise at the plate in AA and a very good defender with injury questions; Max-Ram was considered the pure hitter that wouldn’t stick behind the plate.

After seeing them all (some very limited) at the big level, I’d honestly rather have Max-Ram above all the others. I don’t trust Laird by himself without a platoon motivation behind him at all times; Teagarden’s slipped big time on offense and his health is still somewhat of a concern, and Salty just flat out looks horrible in every facet of the game except for patience at the plate. For what it’s worth, I’d rate Teagarden 2nd.

"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "

by Walter Sobchak on Aug 3, 2008 2:34 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

oh and as for Max's defense,

I know he called a lot of high scoring games, but I was QUITE impressed with him. Seemed to be at worst an average defensive catcher with room for improvement.

"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "

by Walter Sobchak on Aug 3, 2008 2:35 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

I’d like to Keep Max and TT, with Teagarden as our defensive backup

by slash on Aug 4, 2008 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me

I’d say that prior to this year, Laird was dead last, since he was probably the worst offensive player in baseball last season. Now I might put him second or third. I think I’d go:

TT
Max
Laird
Salty

It’s kind of a toss up, though. They are all so different, and all probably above average.

"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner

by trza on Aug 3, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Salty was the shiznit before the season started

But after I saw Max, I changed my mind.

Salty might have more raw talent than any of our four backstops and should be a top-notch catcher if he ever refines it – but that might take some time. And with our system as stacked as it is I’m not sure he’s ever going to get the playing time he needs to refine his skills here in Texas. Both Max and Teagarden seem like they’ll be able to have much more seamless transitions to the majors and Max at least looks like he’ll be able to do everything Salty is projected to do – so based on that reasoning, my opinion is that by the trade deadline next year there probably won’t be room for Salty or Laird on the roster.

I think what will ultimately happen is that Salty and Laird will both be traded (hopefully for some good pitching) and Max’s offense will win him the starters role, while Teagarden becomes an underappreciated backup (kind of like Kelly Shoppach in Cleveland).

by JimBonnick84 on Aug 3, 2008 7:20 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Laird

I think Gerald Laird is the best all-around option as a catcher going forward. Ramirez looks like he will be a great offensive player, but probably at DH. I wonder if Teagarden will be able to hit enough, though he is great defensively. Salty….losing faith in him quickly. He hasn’t shown a thing this year.

by bflood36 on Aug 3, 2008 10:01 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...

I also think Laird is the best all around catcher of the 4 right now, maybe later Max Ram and Salty could develop into complete catchers, but they are not complete as of now, TT is the best defensive catcher of the 4 but not yet a hitter. he is likely the future best of the 4

by TRFAN on Aug 4, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Laird is the best all-around option. I would trade Salty in a package to get Greinke, and keep both Max and Teagarden for a while.

by Stoffels on Aug 4, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff Jason...

I’m on record as saying that the Rangers should go with TT and MaxRam as the 2 guys to keep here. I would start TT and keep MaxRam as a 3rd catcher/DH/backup 1B.

I think the Rangers could get some pitching value back for OMFT and Salty this off season. I hope at least one of these guys is dealt before the start of ‘09. I didn’t think all 4 would still be here now, but it’s definitely a nice problem to have.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Aug 3, 2008 10:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I voted for TT, but I would love the TT MaxRam combo, with MaxRam at DH when not catching.

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Aug 3, 2008 3:25 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

To me:

Teagarden is the only one who could realistically be above average offensively and defensively. That alone puts him above the rest. Max could be another Victor Martinez which is not a terrible thing whatsoever but he’d be pushing it to start above half the games a year behind the plate unless he learns to call a better game. I believe Salty has the potential to have a real nice bat and be average behind the plate…but I don’t see him as a platoon. Trade him. As for Laird, we have to many other options to sort out. Trade him too.

I’d be more then happy to let TT and Max fight it out next year for playing time.

by slimshadty12 on Aug 3, 2008 6:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

I think Salty has the best chance. Then again, I also am part of the camp that doesn’t think he is as bad defensively as most make him out to be. And at the end of the day, I’ll go for a guy with great offense and good defense instead of good offense and great defense.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Aug 3, 2008 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

A Lonestar in California

We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.

by lonestarJon on Aug 3, 2008 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question

If the Rangers could still manage an above-average offense without a major contribution from the catcher, would you still want the great offense/good defense catcher over the great defensive catcher?

by jparks77 on Aug 3, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would

Offensive excess is a wonderful thing. If you have an above-average offense, why not strengthen it into a great offense with a great offensive catcher if you’re given the chance?

A Lonestar in California

We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.

by lonestarJon on Aug 3, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

so...

from where I sit, we’re talking about having a catcher that will throw out 10% at best of the runners against him, will not give his pitching staff an advantage with his game calling, and will allow the more-than-occasional passed ball for another advanced runner if he hits .280/.360/.440 with 20 HR over the catcher that throws out 40% of runners, offers above average game calling and puts his pitchers in position to succeed, blocks the plate very well and hits .240/.320/.400 with 10 HR…

I’m not sure that’s the right way to go.

and I am just saying that I think the Max-Ram and Teagarden tandem gives this team a better shot of succeeding in the future than any other combination.

"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "

by Walter Sobchak on Aug 3, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rangers...

are going to have enough offense in the next few years.

Give me the great defense from behind the plate with average offense from the position.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Aug 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point but

Again, I don’t think that Salty is bad defensively so I think the difference between Teagarden and Salty will be overblown in the end. On the other hand, I think Salty has a chance to be one of the top hitting catchers in the Majors. There are also some other issues with Teagarden in that I don’t think his health will allow him to be a regular starter in the Majors and I have serious questions about him having the good bat in the Majors. I know a lot of others don’t have the same concerns with his bat so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt there, but I would be cautious about a guy with those K rates.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Aug 4, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's sure looked a lot better lately.

too bad he couldn’t capitalize and lock up the starting catching spot when Laird first went down

"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "

by Walter Sobchak on Aug 3, 2008 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For all those interested

Chuck Rosciam of SABR posted a few comments on the blog about our catching situation. Interesting stuff.

by jparks77 on Aug 4, 2008 9:54 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

If he's saying what I think he is.

MaxRam is a step below TeaBag, and above Laird defensively?

I have been impressed with Max’s D…he was made out to be much worse than what I’ve seen.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley

by Rodney on Aug 4, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

More from Chuck

He just posted his thoughts about their offensive projections as well.

As it turns out, his comments are better than the piece itself. Read them!

by jparks77 on Aug 4, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

Surprising that he would rank Laird ahead of Ramirez offensively and Ramirez ahead of Laird defensively. I think if you polled people here on those rankings they would be reversed for nearly 100%.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 5, 2008 8:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Catcher at DH!!

I have posted before that I do not see why Mr. Washington will not use a catcher at DH and my goodness he is tonight with Laird. Now when I had posted this before I thought the DH should be Max or Salty. Tell me again why we should not use a catcher as DH in August. I can understand the playoffs or late September if we are in the race. Let Salty DH more. Let’s see if he can hit!!

Thoughts.

Also my catching lineup going forward: Teagarden is the man. He has the it factor!! Max is the backup DH, until Smoak is up and Davis has to DH. Laird and Salty should bring us back a good young pitching stud.

by peachygbc_1 on Aug 4, 2008 7:46 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

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