Borbon = Texas Ranger's CF, 2009?

by blalock84 on Aug 5, 2008 3:33 AM CDT Comment 80 comments

I know i've heard others discuss this, and i've definitely heard one of our minor league experts say that they could see Borbon as our 2009 starting CF, but i really havent gotten a consensus opinion of what the general Ranger's internet community thinks. So i figured, id go ahead and start a discussion about it b/c i think it is a very interesting topic to think about.

Here are some of the pieces to the puzzle that need to be looked at when considering this:

Julio Borbon's Stats:

Bak: 291 ABs, .306BA, 20 2bs, 2 HRs, 36sb/7cs, .346 OBP, .395 SLG% -- .741OPS

Frisco: 147 ABs, .313BA, 6 2bs, 2 3bs, 3 HRs, 8sb/7cs, .353 OPB, .442 SLG% -- .795 OPS

Overall, his profile seems to speak towards a guy who's gonna hit for a very solid avg in the Bigs, but may not be suited to be a leadoff hitter simply b/c he doesnt take many walks. However, he isnt way too far away from being able to be that kind of guy in the minors, a .300 BA guy with close to a .360 OPB (Id consider that acceptable as a leadoff guy), and it may be that he very could develop into that guy two to three years down the road, just maybe not next year. Another thing to consider about Borbon, is that he may very well be capable of developing into a more well rounded, more powerful hitter with decent power to go with a high avg. A Carl Crawford type as some have said him to be capable of becoming, which is something i think all of us would more than gladly take (Crawford has had an .800 or more OPS the previous three seasons). One more thing to keep in mind about Borbon is that he's very capable of covering alot of ground in CF, which is definitely a nice little plus, and gives us more of a reason to have him out there.

The other side of it, is where is this orginization at in terms of who could be blocking him becoming the CF next year. Obviously we have Hamilton who could play there most of the time next year, but i dont think that is 100% what this orginization wants to do. I think that they'd rather play Hamilton in RF more to rest his legs some and also RF might be a better overall fit for his skill set. That's when you get to marlon byrd, who is a very solid player and has a nice, solid all-around game but isnt really anything special and has shown to be below avg at the plate alot of times. I think we still have a year of arbitration with him (?), im not 100% sure on that, but no matter what, i dont think he's the long term answer there. It just comes down to whether or not Borbon is ready to take over at that spot, or they decide Borbon is more valueable as a piece in a bigger trade to get more pitching. The second scenerio could also be a very real possibility as their are plenty of teams that really value that speedy CF and he could be more valueable to them than to us and he also might be one of our best near ready position prospects, even though his upside may not be as dramatic as Beltre's. Either way, Borbon is definitely a very nice asset to our orginization

Poll

Will Julio Borbon be the Texas Ranger's CF on Opening Day 2009?

yes

25 votes

no

139 votes

164 votes | Poll has closed

1 recs | Comment 80 comments

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Comments

ill be excited to

see Borbon when he finally comes up but i imagine itll be closer to september next year. id like to see him soon though if his defensive capabilities are as advertised. he doesnt necessarily have to lead off, as we already have quite an effective leadoff hitter on the roster, even if its not the prototype Wishy Washy has on his wish list. But Id take his defense in CF and a 330-340 OBP hitting 8th or 9th for kinsler and young to drive in.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Aug 5, 2008 4:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

he would

look nice in the 9 hole setting up speed on the base paths for the top of the lineup…...

It's easy to lie with stats, it's even easier to lie without them......

by red shoe ranger on Aug 5, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

ideally,

My outfield is The Murph, Borbon, and Hammy. Bradley at DH and Boggs backing them up.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Aug 5, 2008 5:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+ 1 that'll work

There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.

MILES

by LAMuscleFag on Aug 5, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Late '09

Borbon is the real deal. Plus defense, and enough stick skills to (somewhat) make up for his hatred toward practice of taking a base on balls.

But he won’t be ready out of spring training.

Late ‘09 he’ll likely be ready and will take over CF for good at that time.

Lost in the hysteria over how good Hambone is (and he’s really, really freaking good) is the fact that he’s not very good in CF. He’s adequate. His straight line speed and arm make up for his deficiencies out there. I’m not much good at finding defensive stats, but from what I can gather most metrics have Hambone as average to slightly below average, which meshes pretty well with what my eyes have seen.

Our OF will improve a lot if we can move Hambone to RF where he’ll be truly plus and throw a true cheetah like Borbon out there in CF. I drool at the thought, and you know our pitchers do too.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 5, 2008 5:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

Borbon is going to be one of the reasons why bringing back Milton Bradley just doesn’t make much sense for the long term. By late ‘09-2010, we’re going to be juggling Hamilton, Murphy, Boggs, Borbon and possibly JMJ out there – and if Max Ramirez isn’t the starting catcher, he should be the full-time DH by then. That, plus the eventual Smoak/Davis logjam at first base (which could also affect the DH situation of course) just leaves no room for Bradley, which is why I really wish we had been more open to trading Milton this year.

A Lonestar in California

We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.

by lonestarJon on Aug 5, 2008 5:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

MOB

I guess it all depends on what you think of him as a hitter. If you believe he’s a .300/.400/.500-or higher guy like he’s shown this season, then you shouldn’t worry about him blocking filler-level plebes like Murphy, Boggs and JMJ. They’re all perfectly nice players, don’t get me wrong. But you never let a good player go just to give an average player a shot unless you absolutely have to. If you think the bat is a mirage and/or the injury concerns bother you too much, then you let him walk. But it all depends on what you think of MOB.

As for the Maxatron…. if you don’t think he’s going to stick at catcher long term then you need to move him now to a team that does believe in him as a catcher, cause his value at catcher is far greater than his value as a DH.

Me, I think he can stay at catcher and be perfectly fine back there. He’s the one I’d keep, personally. I really believe in the bat. Like, really.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 5, 2008 5:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can't wait for the off-season...

to see how all this stuff plays out. Would Bradley accept a DH role here for a not too hellacious contract? If so, is Ramirez ready to catch next year on the big team (he can DH right now it would seem)? What 2 rangers does the team rank the best for this team in the future? Do you keep those 2 or are all 4 worth it, thus meriting trading the 2 with the highest value.? What top rotation guy do we trade for, who do we lose, and who will be our 1/2 guy to pair with Padilla (mostly a 2 sometimes a 5)? what two top rotation FA use the Rangers’ bids to sign elsewhere? Do we go after a vet FA closer, so that we don’t have to give up a bigger-than-gagne package at the ASB when Wilson crumbles, Madrigal can’t take it, Guardado is DL’d with a 48yo shoulder, and Francisco proves too valuable at a dominating 8th guy? IS Frankie _the _ guy? Who is not protected for the rule 5 major, and who might we lose as a result? Is Borbon ready? Is JMJ a better guy to have around than Byrd? Can he be a 4th outfielder incapable of playing center? Is it Bradley’s legs and not his knee what will prevent him from being regarded as a FT OF ever again? Will AJ Murray call it quits after his 15th surgery and talk about how stupid it was that the ranger’s made him a starter again (and pray that CJ won’t make the same mistake)? Will McCarthy borrow Terell Owen’s hyper-baric chamber and come back a new man? Will Arias become this year’s Duran, yo-yo’ing between AAA and the club as our super-utility guy? Who plays in fall league, who reluctantly accpepts their winter ball assignment to Hawaii, and what terrific kids get the invite to instructionals? Will Hawkins work any magic on Hurley, Harrison, Hunter and Mendoza?

by Goyogringo on Aug 5, 2008 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

what 2 catchers rank tops that is....

by Goyogringo on Aug 5, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defensive Stats

Since you brought them up, thought I’d share some of them.

Plus/Minus
-12 as a CF in 2008, ranking in 33rd in baseball. I’m almost positive that number has been trending upwards towards average. I’m pretty sure it was worse even just weeks ago, and my anecdotal opinion would agree with that (that he’s improved).

He also has a -2 in right. In center he’s had a -8 total, the -12 is an idication of not only the number of plays he’s made below average, but also the number of bases he’s given up below average.

He’s made 149 of 157 expected outs in center. He had a -2 in his limited time in center last year.

RZR and OOZ
Hamilton’s 37 outs made out of zone in center rank him 9th in the AL this year, which I know is definitely an improvement from where he was not long ago. His .868 Revised Zone Rating would rank last in the AL if he had enough games played there to qualify.

FRAA and FRAR
The most questionable of all defensive metrics, but just to be thorough. Josh is currently at 11 fielding runs allowed below average, and is exactly at replacement level (0) as a fielder this season according to Baseball Prospectus. He had a -3 FRAA and a 6 FRAR last year.

This is just to provide a little more support to your statement, partly because I’m up late. One can draw one’s own conclusions.

My personal take is that he’s still catching up to playing the field. He’s improved, but I still think he makes some poor tactical decisions, tires out, and often seems to position himself poorly. That sort of thing, to me, happens when a guy is out of baseball for a while. At the same time, he’s wonderfully athletic and seems to have the ability to do the spectacular. I think he’s improved and has it in him to be a decent, if not good, fielder. There’s no question to me that he’s been a well below-average fielder this season in center, but I think he’s crept back closer to average.

That said, while I think he’s not a lost cause in center at all, I do think we might be better served, as you say, with him in the corner if we find a good centerfielder. Other than the whole prestige thing of being a centerfielder, I’d be thrilled with Josh as our rightfielder.

by philkid3 on Aug 5, 2008 6:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Routes

thedirkatron mentioned straight line speed, which implies that he may not take the best routes to fly balls. Do any of the above stats take into account the routes chosen by the player? I don’t think they do, but I’m hoping that somebody with a little more knowledge could clarify this.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Aug 5, 2008 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, that's kind've hard to do by most evaluation tools.

The way +/- is evaluated, it takes that in to account by its nature, because if an average player would make the play, and the player in question does not because he takes a bad route, he gets a -1.

For their purpose, that doesn’t really matter. If you don’t get there because you took a bad route or because you’re slow or because you saw a hot girl in the stands and stopped running, it’s all worth the same thing.

As far as the “why,” though, you’d have to go deeper. Dewan’s people could probably tell you something about why Hamilton is where he is better than any of us, but that information’s not available to me. I’m not sure if it would be possible to get an opinion from he or them.

by philkid3 on Aug 5, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Remember that Josh had been out of baseball for a while

and even then jumped essentially from A to the MLB. I think that we can expect Josh to continue to improve as he gets more experience out there. Now, I do not know if he will ever be an above average CF, but I think it is plain to see that he is still learning the position.

Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."

by LBBRangerFan on Aug 5, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

im

right on board with these thoughts, i think Hamilton in RF and Borbon in CF is our best OF with DMurph in left and Boggs getting alot of playing time as the 4th OF

by blalock84 on Aug 5, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A little off-topic:

a .300 BA guy with close to a .360 OPB (Id consider that acceptable as a leadoff guy),

I’m not sure what you meant, so I might not be disagreeing with you specifically, but this is a line of thinking I largely don’t understand. I don’t think you should spend your time trying to find a guy who fits a “lead-off” profile. You should just have the nine best players available on your team and then form the line-up based on that.

There shouldn’t be an OBP quota for your lead-off man, it should just be the guy in the lineup who fits the position best (such as the best OBP guy who’s not one of your two or three best hitters by one theory). If he’s a .340 OBP guy, that’s acceptable (though there’s a chance your team sucks) if no one else is better.

This is more baseball talk than Borbon talk. Carry on.

by philkid3 on Aug 5, 2008 5:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Let him start next season at AAA ...

He’s got a few things to polish in his overall game … and I think he comes up in August after the trade deadline.

Yea, though we play in the valley of the shadow of defeat, we shall fear no team ... 'cause Nolan says so !!

by FloridaRangerFan on Aug 5, 2008 7:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If we lose Byrd

and Bradley signs as a DH (or leaves altogether), who plays one of the corners? Boggs? JMJ? Ben Harrison? Steve Murphy? I kinda like the idea of resigning Byrd to a 1yr deal maintain our OF/DH platoon.

by Goyogringo on Aug 5, 2008 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I believe...

Byrd is under contract through next year.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Aug 6, 2008 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nay

He’s under team control next year, but not under contract.

Not sure if that’s what you meant but I figured I’d clarify just in case.

We could theoretically lose him f we don’t feel like offering him arb.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 6, 2008 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks...

for the clarification. I actually thought he was under contract not just team control. My mistake.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Aug 6, 2008 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

no _my_ mistake

I’m glad they have the flexibility

by Goyogringo on Aug 6, 2008 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He starts out of the gate

You don’t give a guy a major league deal and then not push him. The talk was that his glove was ready out of college so you are only concerned about his bat. If you believe he can best Murph’s 320 OBP then I don’t see any reason not to put him out there and let him sink or swim. Also unless he breaks camp with the team he uses an option and as I’m told it’s all about the 40.

by bushe on Aug 5, 2008 8:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Hes been pushed

Last year his injury limited him to the AZL. This year he started out his first pro season in High A. Not a huge leap from major college ball but to end the year in AA and be ready to start your second pro season in AAA is still ahead of the curve. He should start next year in OKC and be brought up probably around the ASB if not a few weeks afterwards. Then he can show his stuff the last couple months and go into 2010 as the frontrunner. 2010 will be his last option year but with the way he has performed so far I don’t see options being a problem with him.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 5, 2008 9:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

pushed

He’s been pushed as far as moving up levels but he hasn’t struggled in AA so I don’t think he’s been pushed developmentally. I won’t mind if they leave him in AAA for the start of next year I just don’t see the point in it. Out of curiosity what line do you think he’d post out of the gate next year? I think he’d post 285/335/390 which I think should be enough to start in center.

by bushe on Aug 5, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Borbon

I think if he started next season in the majors his line would be somewhere in the .250/.290/.360 area. I just don’t think hes ready. But if he comes up mid season I think we could easily see a .280/.330/.390 player.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Aug 5, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My guess is

he will look a lot like Murphy when he hits the major. A weaker 3rd OF, or a strong 4th OF.

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 5, 2008 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

with the stick

but with the glove he is better than Murph by a considerable birth

by bushe on Aug 5, 2008 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

those caught stealings

in AA

should we look into that? i thought this guy was supposed to be a 35-40sb guy in the majors?

by kumizi on Aug 5, 2008 8:12 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That caught my eye also....

curious…

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Aug 5, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it stole my breath away when I saw it.

by Telegraph on Aug 5, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To me

it just means that it was real easy to read A ball pitchers, and he’s got to learn to read higher level pitchers now. See how it evolves long term, not over this short set. Beware the small sample.

Tom Grieve is my hero.

by tasan on Aug 5, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He profiles as

another in a long line of overrated fast guys. For whatever reason, speed is the one tool that gets folks bumped way, way up the prospect charts.

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 5, 2008 9:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Speed

is rated so highly because it is the one of the five tools that is not capable of being “coached up”. I’m not trying to be master of the obvious or smart alek.
Speed causes havoc on the bases even at the MLB level and, when combined with a good break on the ball, is invaluable in the field. And the going fast part can’t be taught.
I’m not saying you have to be fast to be a great ballplayer, but it does make up for not being as great in other areas. Think about it, Hamilton just seems so much more beastly because he so fast for his size.

by mcgee48c on Aug 5, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's like the Tall Doofuses

in Basketball who can’t Play, but get drafted early because you can’t coach height. Guys like Chris Mihm get drafted early all the time, and have a career kicking around the bench.

Most of the time I’m extra skeptical of fast guys, because, you find out when a lot of them reach MLB, they flat can’t get on base, they can’t read the pitcher/catcher so they don’t steal effectively, and their defense isn’t always great. If I hear of a guy receiving a ton of hype, but the numbers don’t reflect it, and they have a reputation for speed, I’m even more inclined to go with the numbers.

Hopefully we can trade him based on the speed and the hype.

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 5, 2008 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

All so-called “tools” are not equal.

Speed is about as important as arm strength. Nice, but not even remotely as important as the ability to get on base or hit for power.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Aug 5, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it seems

like there are alot more guys out there that can really just hit for power - can’t run, can’t field, can’t throw - than there are guys that really just have good speed (like a Pierre type).

Speed is invaluable when it’s combined with the other tools. When it’s the lone exceptional thing about a player, it’s not really all that valuable (like Gathright).

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Aug 5, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

For whatever reason though

Speed always gets the most hype. I’ve never understood it. You can have a minor leaguer who just flat hits, like say, Ian Kinsler or Rich Aurilia, and they get some respect, but not tons of hype. Then you have a minor leaguer with speed, like Joaquin Arias or Benji Gil, and all you hear is oohing and aahing.

You rarely hear any player but a catcher hyped for their arm, even though the arm isn’t a whole lot less valuable of a tool than speed is.

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 5, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

It was an imperfect comparison. Just tryting to emphasize that some skills are much more valuable than others.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Aug 5, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It gets the most hype because it's exciting.

It’s athletic! It’s nifty!

And, as mentioned, you can’t teach it, so the perception of rarity transforms in to value for some people. Something being rare, of course, doesn’t automatically make it valuable, but I think part of that is from all the “tools” being treated equally, as Brian Thomas just said. The thought process is something like, “hitting and speed are just as important, but speed is hard to teach, so if you draft a guy with speed you can teach him to hit!”

That, and old-timey baseball wisdom tells you speed kills (partly because it was once more valuable than it is today).

I don’t think I could teach a guy to breath through his tear ducts, but some pople can do that naturally. I don’t think that makes them more valuable to the Rangers than someone who can put up an 800 OPS.

by philkid3 on Aug 5, 2008 3:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Ian Kinsler never got any hype?

Were you living under a rock during the summer of Kinsler?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 5, 2008 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not compared

to the #2 ranking in the system that Newberg bestowed on Arias, when he had done Absolutely Zero in the minors. Where was Kinsler as a national prospect?

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 5, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He was all over the BA chats as I recall

I don’t think they had the “shot sheet” yet, but I was a subscriber at the time and there was always quite a bit on Kinsler that summer.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 5, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kinsler was

the number 98 BA prospect after the “summer of Kinsler”, where heseemingly homered, doubled, or hit a cycle like every game.

Joaquin Arias was number 77 that same year, after hitting a spiffy .300/ .341/.396

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 5, 2008 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay

What’s your point?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 5, 2008 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That Arias still got more hype

even after “The Summer of Kinsler”, despite never doing anything at the professional level.

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 6, 2008 6:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

he got 20 spots higher on the BA top 100 list. That’s crazy.

Are you trying to say that he got more hype than Kinsler that year because he was “fast”? There were a number of ancillary factors at work there, imo.

And hitting .300 in A+ as a 19 year old while showing plus defensive skills at SS isn’t “nothing” to me.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Aug 6, 2008 12:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

By plus defensive skills

I assume you mean how he dominated the California league error rankings? I think there might have been one guy close to him in errors.

Yes, most of the gross overhyping of Arias is because he is quick and fast.

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 6, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

so Andrus?

you give him the same treatment? is he just hyped up because of speed?

a lot of same numbers between them and the age thing

by slash on Aug 6, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've said similar things

about Andrus. He’d have to show me more than he has before I got all googoo over him.

I think there is a decent chance Andrus is overhyped and will be a fairly unspectacular every day player.

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 6, 2008 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He is doing more

than Arias did, and his stats have improved every month this year as a spring chicken in AA. He is not just surviving there, he’s doing pretty well. On base percentages over .380 in both June and July. This is a sign of a player adjusting and growing.

I’m not saying he’s a future HOFer, but he’s more of a prospect than Arias ever was in my book.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 6, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably true

but I still wouldn’t be surprised if he was a fairly average everyday SS, which is a good result for any prospect, but is less than I think some folks hype him up.

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 6, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There you're right

He may be great, but if he does nothing but hit adequately for a SS and play good defense I’ll be pretty happy.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 6, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, getting good cheap

everyday production can’t be overestimated. If we had a rotation full of league average arms, and a league average bullpen, we’d probably be in first by now.

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 6, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My favorite

is the much hyped “5 tool” prospect who you go back and look at his numbers and he can’t steal bases, never walks, doesn’t really hit for a great average, his power numbers aren’t really that great, and typically turns out that he’s not that great of a defender.

“5 tool” guys tend to be the guys that at a workout do everything pretty well. However, that generally doesn’t translate into being a good baseball player.

Just give me a guy that can rake.

"So you think the Celtics will beat Detroit? Hell will freeze over before that happens, mark my words." miles 5/20/08

by badradiorules on Aug 5, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's pretty much the first chapter of Moneyball.

Talking about how Billy Beane blew everyone away in his workouts, so he was labeled a can’t-miss five-tool guy.

And, as we all have come to know, he was a bust and now strives to draft people who are nothing like him.

by philkid3 on Aug 5, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

the difference in your assement

is that Borbon’s numbers are actually pretty darn good for a first year guy in AA… I’ll take a near 800 OPS with a high avg and good D. He’s been trending upward too recently, and i gotta think he’s only getting better. There’s a difference bt guys like Michael Bourne and Carl Crawford, if Borbon is Michael Bourne, then deal him as fast as you can, if he’s Carl Crawford then you got a really nice player with all kinds of value to you’re team. I tend to think Borbon is on track to develop into a Crawford type.

by blalock84 on Aug 5, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The same thing happens in the NFL

and the mythical 40 time.

It is an easy thing to get excited about and to project on. In almost all cases, however, this speed (in both the NFL and MLB) can be mitigated if the player does not have a good first step, quick reaction time, or the game intelligence to maximize the his ability. Theses factors are why it is usually not the fastest guy on the team who leads in steals(or receptions), but someone else.

But unlike other factors, speed is easy to quantify and judge so it is easy to hype up.

Godwin's Law Version 2.0 (Rangers Edition)
"As a Ranger discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Danks, Volquez, or Young approaches one."

by LBBRangerFan on Aug 5, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

like height in basketball, its easy to measure and easy to hype. In the hands of a good player, its a real asset. In the hands of Shawn Bradley …

"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain

by DJCahill on Aug 5, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

not even comparable

the nfl combine or nba pre-draft workouts. Baseball speed is evaluated over a season and how it plays out practically not in a circus arena broadcast on espn.

by Goyogringo on Aug 5, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

x

Speed kills

Power punishes

There is no such thing as "untouchable".

by miles on Aug 5, 2008 10:34 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+ 1

There is no status, except for me. Because I am who I am.

MILES

by LAMuscleFag on Aug 5, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you really think that means something?

It sounds like a commercial slogan for Brawndo.

Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return

by Brett Perryman on Aug 5, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You just

hate your life.

There is no such thing as "untouchable".

by miles on Aug 5, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go tthrough life , son

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Aug 5, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

at the risk of

repeating myself, I think that would actually be a very enjoyable life for the fat, drunk and stupid one.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 5, 2008 9:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Best thing about being stupid:

Magic is way, way cooler…

Welcome back, homey.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Aug 6, 2008 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How was the game

with your nephew?

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 6, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kind of frustrating from a fan's perspective.

We got there in the middle of the 2nd. Feliz was pulled in the 4th with I believe one out. The gun said 98 consistently, but I’ve heard it is fast. Pretty slow game. Little offense, no defensive gems (imo Murphy looks faster in the OF than Borbon).

Great from a family perspective. He is now in love with my wife, it appears.
The whole w/e was alot of fun. Big thumbs up on the reunion. Recommend.

How was Nueva York?

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Aug 6, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

New York

great. My daughter (2) rode a horse, fed the pigs, etc. on my brother’s farm and pretty much exploded with excitement. Fresh fruits and veggies are available from dozens of farm-owned stands around there, very, very good food. You just cannot get that kind of produce in Dallas that I know of.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 6, 2008 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice combo

Sassy after school special retorts and trite Brawndo slogans

Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return

by Brett Perryman on Aug 5, 2008 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Borbon should be a starting LF in 2010

LF is constantly talked about being a hard position to play in the Ballpark so why not have our fastest guy be the one having to cover the most ground there. I think Hamilton can take care of CF on most days and maybe give Murphy or Borbon some time there to give Hamilton a bit of a rest.

I’m not too concerned about his bat. I’ve seen him play a few times in Frisco and he looks to be developing some nice power. If he can hit for a bit more power, he’ll be able to have 15-20 HRs a year. If not, he’ll still be able to hit a bunch of doubles and with his speed, turn those into triples. Although his bat isn’t ML ready yet which is why I wouldn’t want to see him in 2009 before September. I think part of the reason his walk rate isn’t that high is because he is still able to slap the ball wherever he wants in Frisco and doesn’t see many as many pitches that he may feel uncomfortable with hitting. In OKC, he will hopefully be forced to learn to be more selective at the plate.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Aug 5, 2008 11:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs