More Rangers pitching talk
From a notes column from Jim Molony, who is one of the mlb.com writers:
Scouts say the problem with the Texas pitching staff stems from the fact that they are rushed to the big leagues, even though they don't have command of their breaking balls, or have below-average off-speed stuff. The result is the Rangers end up with pitchers with high walk totals, low strikeouts and high pitch counts.Opposing hitters sit on the fastball and either foul them off or put them in play against a weak defense. As a result, their starting pitchers barely have enough gas to get through six and their bullpen is worn out.
Rangers pitchers average 155 pitches per game, the highest in the American League. The only Texas pitchers with an above-average breaking ball is Eddie Guardado, their 37-year-old reliever, and reliever Joaquin Benoit.
* * *
Nolan Ryan is starting to assert himself more as club president of the Rangers. Ryan was a driving force behind the removal of pitching coach Mark Connor and bullpen coach Dom Chiti. Manager Ron Washington was resistant to the change, but it was forced upon him by Ryan and general manager Jon Daniels.
Ryan believes the Rangers have the offense to contend for a Wild Card playoff race, but felt something needed to be done to fix the pitching staff. The changes haven't gone over well in the clubhouse, where Connor was highly respected and Chiti was regarded as a wise counselor for the Rangers relievers.
If you recall, Chris Shelton was called up, and Jason Botts needed to be released, because "something needed to be done." We now have this apparent sense of urgency from up on high, with Connor and Chiti being axed because "something needed to be done to fix the pitching staff," even though this team is not a legit wild card contender.
These sorts of things make me believe there's a decent chance that Daniels is gone at the end of the season, at Ryan's behest, with the explanation being that "something needed to be done" about the fact that the pitching isn't good.
0 recs |
288
comments
Read Related
Comments
What a bizarre jump in logic.
And you’ve based it on an article in which a guy says Guardado and Benoit are the only guys on the staff with above average breaking balls?
It's filed under 'D'... for donut.
by NoNameOnCard on Aug 7, 2008 1:05 PM CDT 0 recs
No
I didn’t base my concern about what is going on in the front office on that article.
by Adam J. Morris on
Aug 7, 2008 1:06 PM CDT
up
0 recs
You really think
with the farm system the way it is and Daniels great work in his drafts that they’ll let him go because “something had to be done about the pitching?” I know there is Nolan paranoia but I don’t think he’ll kneejerk that bad after one year.
"Mr. Hicks, you watch, I'm going to be a leader on this team." Kinsler
by sprite on
Aug 7, 2008 1:21 PM CDT
up
0 recs
but he has done something about the pitching...
...it’s all right there in the minors… the same minors that Ryan advocates in his radio advertisements to come out to the ballpark…
i believe he says… “and with the number of prospects in the system, we’re setting ourselves up for the future”
by oc on
Aug 7, 2008 1:34 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I don't know how
anybody could piss and moan about what Nolan Ryan has done this year.
.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 1:34 PM CDT
up
0 recs
what has he done?
do tell
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on
Aug 7, 2008 1:34 PM CDT
up
0 recs
He has drawled a lot on the radio...
...and sounded just like a “True Texan”. That sure has made me feel all warm inside about buying Ranger tickets.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on
Aug 7, 2008 2:10 PM CDT
up
0 recs
What has he done.....
to deserve the conspiracy theories that abound?
by bdavison94 on
Aug 7, 2008 2:34 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Can he prove his whereabouts...
...on Nov. 22, 1963?
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on
Aug 7, 2008 3:21 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Nolan.....
probably was barely driving…....so it’s possible that he was in Dallas.
by bdavison94 on
Aug 7, 2008 3:26 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Daniels
isn’t going anywhere. If anything, the recent string of success with young kids and recent acquisitions has solidified his position.
I also don’t think the firings are just a ‘win now’ decision. Like everyone else has documented, this staff has a long history of underperforming (and those that leave find success). When that happens, there is no value in giving it more time. We need to get the proper coaches and philosophy in place so we don’t scew up this next generation of prospects (Feliz, Main, etc…). I think the firing is a solid long-term decision, not a nearsighted one.
by Jack Nicholson 1974 on Aug 7, 2008 1:11 PM CDT 0 recs
+1
and those coaches have to take some of the blame for the millions of pitching injuries
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Aug 7, 2008 4:45 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Pitching Coaches and bad 1bs is a big leap to GM
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Aug 7, 2008 1:15 PM CDT 0 recs
now i love you nolan
Nolan Ryan is starting to assert himself more as club president of the Rangers. Ryan was a driving force behind the removal of pitching coach Mark Connor and bullpen coach Dom Chiti.
thank you nolan!!!!
btw: i dont think that you can stretch the connection to GM, neither one of those guys had anything at all to do with the current regime. no connection what so ever. so to then connect them is kinda a stretch.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on Aug 7, 2008 1:16 PM CDT 0 recs
Purging Conner & Chiti
was definitely Nolan’s call. Nolan said early on his management style is to get to know the people he works with, observe them and then wait for results.
Nolan shit-canned those coaches because they weren’t getting results.
Does Nolan believe JD has done a good job? Interesting question and I did take notice that Nolan said he was “disappointed” we weren’t able to make any deadline deals to help the club.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Aug 7, 2008 1:22 PM CDT 0 recs
Daniels
is going nowhere, he just got an extension.
Hicks won’t let this happen. He doesn’t want to pay off Daniels for the next 4 or whatever years.
Today is the youngest you will ever be. Act like it.
by miles on Aug 7, 2008 1:27 PM CDT 0 recs
Miles
How you handling Ohio? Does it still suck or you starting to have fun?
by AirJordan on
Aug 7, 2008 1:33 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Why can't I reply to any comments?
when I click reply, it gives me this:
http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/8/7/588895/more-rangers-pitching-talk#
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Aug 7, 2008 1:30 PM CDT 0 recs
works for me
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on
Aug 7, 2008 1:31 PM CDT
up
0 recs
hope they don't
get rid of Daniels. He’s getting better all the time.
by jcAustin on Aug 7, 2008 1:34 PM CDT 0 recs
Ditto
They’ve already gone through his learning curve period. He’s actually qualified for the job now and it would be foolish to dump him after he’s learned so much.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Aug 7, 2008 3:37 PM CDT
up
0 recs
why should we have to get a GM who has to go through a 3-year learning curve
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Aug 7, 2008 4:47 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Don't you think
all new GMs go through some sort of learning curve? My point is it would be pretty foolish to dump him now when he’s on something of a roll and making good decisions because he made some terrible ones 2 or 3 years ago.
Plus, Josey’s spiel about JD not having a realistic assessment of the team’s chances in 2006 or 2007 is disingenuous. Tom Hicks had a lot of say in the team’s direction then, as he should as the owner. I think both men fooled themselves into thinking the team was a contender—and I might add that most people here thought those teams had at least an outside chance both years. I don’t know who convinced who that it was time to rebuild, though I suspect that Daniels had to push Hicks in that direction.
Daniels may not have been the right hire when he first got the job. But I think he is qualified now, and to get rid of him now would be at least as much of a mistake as hiring him then was.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Aug 7, 2008 4:54 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I tend to be careful
about people who use unnamed sources to lend credence to what may be one guy’s opinion. “Scouts say” or” a highly placed official suggests” tend to set off a red flag with me. Sometimes there is substance there but just as often there is not. I see no sign that Nolan is unhappy with Jon and I think the idea that Nolan wants Jon gone is a red herring.
Sure, some of the Ranger pitchers are probably being moved to the majors before they are ready but the fact is they are the best the Rangers have and choices are limited.
by Jea103 on Aug 7, 2008 1:34 PM CDT 0 recs
three-fifths of the starting rotation on Opening Day...
...M.I.A. ...
by oc on
Aug 7, 2008 1:36 PM CDT
up
0 recs
However...
Outside of the Jennings signing, how can anyone blame Daniels for that? It makes no sense to blame him for Luis Mendoza’s shoulder or Kason Gabbard’s inability to stay healthy since their spots in the rotation were not his decision.
by jwiscarson on
Aug 7, 2008 1:39 PM CDT
up
0 recs
yes.
...there were a bunch of other sorry-ass No. 5’s out there and Daniels went with the injury-proned local boy.
by oc on
Aug 7, 2008 1:53 PM CDT
up
0 recs
no. the Jennings signing was terrible.
...i said it then, and i say it now.
by oc on
Aug 7, 2008 1:56 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Uh...
I’m saying that you can’t blame him for Mendoza’s or Gabbard’s spots in the rotation. Hence my use of the phrase “outside of the Jennings signing”.
by jwiscarson on
Aug 7, 2008 1:57 PM CDT
up
0 recs
What could anybody
ever expect from Gabbard other than injuries??
That’s why you don’t trade for crap like Kason Gabbard.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 2:34 PM CDT
up
0 recs
except....
when you can get guys like Murphy and in the same deal
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on
Aug 7, 2008 3:20 PM CDT
up
0 recs
and beltre
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Aug 7, 2008 4:49 PM CDT
up
0 recs
so if the trade was just for murphy and beltre that would have been fine?
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on
Aug 7, 2008 3:20 PM CDT
up
0 recs
even if gabbard throws another pitch for the rangers
86 innings with a 5.2 ERA is hardly the worst pitching performance weve seen in the last year, and of course the other 2 guys are still around for a long time.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on
Aug 7, 2008 3:33 PM CDT
up
0 recs
did you even notice how gabbard pitched in april when he was healthy??
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Aug 7, 2008 4:49 PM CDT
up
0 recs
did you even notice how gabbard pitch in april when he was healthy??
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Aug 7, 2008 4:49 PM CDT
up
0 recs
probably made that decision partially on advice from Connor
so maybe that mistake won’t be repeated
Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
ElectricOkra.com
by WhipSmart on
Aug 7, 2008 1:55 PM CDT
up
0 recs
stop blaming
other people for JD’s screw-ups. Gabbard had four surgeries (in 7 years) before the Rangers traded for him. I knew that Gabbard was a major injury risk and expecting anything different was stupid.
JD was the GM at the time of the deal and gets credit for prying away David Murphy but he also gets the blame for acquiring Kason Gabbard.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 3:01 PM CDT
up
0 recs
so....
what is the negative impact that Gabbard has had that we can blame JD for? What have we lost?
by bdavison94 on
Aug 7, 2008 3:07 PM CDT
up
0 recs
That's ridiculous
Can you not be happy that we got Murphy and a stud (although still young) prospect in Beltre. If they could forsee this happening for sure with Gabbard and been forced to take him to get the other two, I am sure they would.
by CS3 on
Aug 7, 2008 3:14 PM CDT
up
0 recs
NO!
JD must be given 40 lashes for accepting to take on Kason Gabbard. Mistakes will not be tolerated!
by bdavison94 on
Aug 7, 2008 3:16 PM CDT
up
0 recs
And JD decided to give Millwood 5 years / $ 60 million,
one year $ 4.5 million to Jennings (while DFA’ing Galarraga) and insisted that the Red Sox give him the always injured Kason Gabbard.
These were all JD acquisitions made before Nolan became his boss.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 1:40 PM CDT
up
0 recs
$ 12 million
per is the going rate for Big Southern Dummy, mediocre pitchers that are out of shape and can’t stay healthy?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 1:45 PM CDT
up
0 recs
wasn't exactly his reputation before he got to Texas
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on
Aug 7, 2008 1:46 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Kind of was
he was famous for having a good year every three years, and throwing a stinker every 3 years.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on
Aug 7, 2008 1:51 PM CDT
up
0 recs
can't stay healthy?
and his stinkers weren’t the same as what he has been doign in texas. he came here and started walking people and getting injured.
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on
Aug 7, 2008 1:52 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I wish that trend had continued
This would have been his year to be really good, which would have been nice.
by CS3 on
Aug 7, 2008 3:53 PM CDT
up
0 recs
no but
it is the going rate for late 20’s pitchers that lead the league in ERA the year prior
by blueballlefty on
Aug 7, 2008 1:47 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Free agents
should be signed based on what they are going to do for you and not what they’ve done in the past.
If you have a small market payroll, you don’t give $ 12 million to Kevin Millwood.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 1:51 PM CDT
up
0 recs
but isn't what they did in the past
the only sign of what they will do in the future?
“Yeah, he was awesome last year, but my crystal ball tells me that he’s going to develop a donut fetish and have an ERA of 5.20 two years from now.”
Grieve: The Yanks have struggled so far. - Lewin: Yeah, cry me a bag of money.
ElectricOkra.com
by WhipSmart on
Aug 7, 2008 1:53 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Free agents
are priced on what they’ve done in the past, no doubt but that is when you have to be smart with your small market payroll.
The fact that Millwood had never embraced physical conditioning should have been given heavy consideration when you realize he was into his 30’s and about to sign his first big deal.
Is anybody really shocked that fat fuck can’t take the ball every 5th day?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 1:57 PM CDT
up
0 recs
No Doubt!!!
i was gonna say the same thing.
"I’m sure you’ve seen Kiker before but I’ll just reiterate that the kid is mean on the mound. He is only 5’10’’ but he is an intimidator. He looks like he hates hitters. He has the juice for pressure situations."
-Jason Parks on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 PM
by Jayslick on
Aug 7, 2008 8:42 PM CDT
up
0 recs
You've been on these boards for years
So, certainly you can produce many quotes from yourself decrying the salient imbecility of the Millwood signing at the time, no?
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on
Aug 7, 2008 2:49 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I've been reading a lot of your posts lately
and I come to conclusion that you’re an idiot.
by Coolbean04 on
Aug 7, 2008 3:37 PM CDT
up
0 recs
It is
the most obvious conclusion out there.
"And I stopped beating my wife just a couple of weeks ago." -John McCain
by DJCahill on
Aug 7, 2008 3:39 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Because all GMs have crystal balls
and can force players to sign contracts for their set-in-stone future performances.
by jwiscarson on
Aug 7, 2008 1:53 PM CDT
up
0 recs
are you seriously complaining about the Gagne trade?
(incredulous)
by texnykazrus on
Aug 7, 2008 2:05 PM CDT
up
0 recs
It was a good trade
but it was not a smart signing if the thoughts were that Gagne could help a good team win over 162 games.
JD played the Gagne situation pretty well because of the trade but I initially thought it was yet another waste of money for a team with a small market payroll.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 2:22 PM CDT
up
0 recs
So.....
The problem with the Gagne situation isn’t how it turned out, but how it might have turned out had we been in a different situation?
by CS3 on
Aug 7, 2008 2:27 PM CDT
up
0 recs
If Gagne
was brought aboard for $ 8 million to be the closer for a pennant contending team for 162 games it was a bad signing..
I would have rather seen Benoit or CJ close and spend that money on a starting pitcher.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 3:36 PM CDT
up
0 recs
I dont think
anyone ever considered last year’s team pennant contending though. Gagne was brought in to fix a patch and hopefully teach some of the pitchers some things and Wilson has spoken at length about how much he learned about being a reliever from Gagne. Benoit (hopefully) found his niche last year as a set up man.
by CS3 on
Aug 7, 2008 3:41 PM CDT
up
0 recs
and how have CJ and Benoit turned out this year?
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Aug 7, 2008 4:55 PM CDT
up
0 recs
not as well
as when they were healthy and Gagne was here last year. Bone spurs in the pitching elbow and shoulder inflamation in the pitching arm probably have some sort of effect on pitching success. I’m not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night
by CS3 on
Aug 7, 2008 5:00 PM CDT
up
0 recs
lets hope
Feliz and Hurley. The 1-2 punch of the future
by Steal Home on
Aug 7, 2008 5:39 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Don't you think
Daniels signed him with the possibility he might be able to flip him for prospects at the deadline? Or at least get some draft picks out of him?
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Aug 7, 2008 3:39 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Everything I read about
this team going into 2007 was how much better everybody (owner, GM, manager, players) felt they were going to have a much better record and that the post-season was not an unrealistic expectation.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Aug 7, 2008 4:54 PM CDT
up
0 recs
what were they going to say?
boy we suck this year?
THe fact that both Lofton and Gagne got one year deals should tell you something – JD probably signed them with the idea of trading them if Texas was out of it.
by FirebatM3 on
Aug 7, 2008 4:58 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Yes, but
my point is that they can say that and at the same time, hedge their bets by signing Gagne to an incentive-laden contract and knowing that if the team doesn’t make it they can trade him.
Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.
by t ball on
Aug 7, 2008 5:20 PM CDT
up
0 recs
Right...
I don’t see how signing someone with the hopes that the team is good - but also using that player as a trade piece if they team is not - is a bad thing.
To suggest otherwise is just worrying about Tom Hicks’ money—which is really all Josey’s posts boil down to…
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on
Aug 7, 2008 6:33 PM CDT
up
0 recs
If Daniels was fired
he’d have some of his own track record to hang him. I’ll let other list the litany of pitchers who are g



