Fourth Best Ranger Ever Community Project

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 2:02 PM CDT

Congratulations to Nolan Ryan on being named the second greatest Texas Rangers player ever with 33% of the Lone Star Ball vote.

Ivan Rodriguez 1991-2002

Juan Gonzalez 1989-99, 2002-03

Nolan Ryan 1989-93

Now it's time to decide who the fourth greatest Ranger player ever is. I would suggest judge it the same way you would evaluate MLB players over a career, but consider their careers were only as long as the years and games they played with the Texas Rangers. Consider not just best seasons, but total contribution, and perhaps a bit of profile.

If there's anyone not on the ballot who you think should be considered as the fifth best Ranger, please let me know in the comments.

Write-In Votes

If there's someone not on the list who you want to vote for, please vote "OTHER," then write your vote down in a reply. If you label that reply as "Write In" it will be much easier for me to find. Thanks!

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Third straight time I've voted for Palmeiro.

Hoping it’s gonna be the last time. He did pretty well in the last vote, just not as well as Ryan.

Man, I love Nolan, so I’m not exactly bothered by seeing him up there third per se, but it just makes us look so lazy.

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 2:12 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

i swear that if rusty greer wins this

fwiw i voted arod.

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 8, 2008 2:14 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Rusty Greer better win.

He deserves it.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Aug 8, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Rusty deserves a place high on this list...

...and I will be voting for him soon. Probably very soon. But for now I’ll go with Palmeiro.

Physician: Primum non nocere

Batter: First, make no out

by Chad Crudup on Aug 8, 2008 2:45 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Fair enough.

"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin

by utlonghorn24 on Aug 8, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

So you just want

everyone to know how ignorant you are? why do we care who you voted for!

by blueballlefty on Aug 8, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

just have a reading issue evidently...

I would suggest judge it the same way you would evaluate MLB players over a career, but consider their careers were only as long as the years and games they played with the Texas Rangers. Consider not just best seasons, but total contribution, and perhaps a bit of profile.

read that as “suggest judge it in the same way you would evaluate a MLB player over a career” lol then skippe dto “consider not bes seasons but total contribution and perhaps a bit of profile.

...and rusty greer is not a top 5 “best player” in rangers history.

pudge, igor, raffy, nolan ryan, julio franco are all EASILY over him.

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 8, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

As a Ranger?

Ryan and Franco, no. I’ll put up a metric in a little bit that may surprise you.

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

As a Ranger?

Rusty and Julio shouldn’t be very far apart on this list. Rusty played on far better teams. Julio played on shitty teams. But if you just look at the individuals, I rank them pretty closely, actually.

by bhudson on Aug 8, 2008 3:48 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Why would the quality of the teams matter?

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Because

As far as the very subjective task of “ranking who is a better Ranger”, Rusty benefits from playing on better teams.

by bhudson on Aug 8, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

If we're just ranking them by stats

Then this exercise is a waste of time. We should which metrics to use, and then just let you generate the rankings.

As this exercise is currently formulated, all kinds of subjective things like whether we liked a guy or not suddenly become factors.

by bhudson on Aug 8, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

If metrics were perfect, sure.

But they’re not. They’re solid guidelines. They help you get an idea that Julio Franco doesn’t blow Rusty Greer out of the water. They don’t make the definitive statement that Franco was a better Ranger than Greer.

Beyond the fact that people would disagree on which statistical measures to use.

Regardless, I still struggle with why how good their teammates were should matter.

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Exactly. It shouldn't matter.

But it does. I’m not saying it should, just that obviously people are accounting for it (or else they just don’t remember Julio, which might actually be the case). The fact is, they should be ranked fairly close, but right now, Rusty leads 9 votes to 0.

by bhudson on Aug 8, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

I'm not sure why.

I don’t care much about how good the teams they’re playing on.

My point was that Franco isn’t “easily” ahead of Rusty, even just based on stats, before you get to all the other stuff (like being a career Ranger, which I think counts for something).

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Well, I guess I misinterpreted what you were saying

The way I heard it was that you were about to post something about how Nolan and Julo aren’t in the same league as Rusty Greer.

Now I see you post something that essentially says Julio and Rusty are equal.

by bhudson on Aug 8, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Yup

I’m definitely voting Rusty ahead of Franco, personally, but I will disagree with anyone who says it isn’t close.

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Rusty's clean --- vote for Rusty

Revenge of the Birds

by cgolden on Aug 8, 2008 2:58 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

so you dont think that

anyone who might have done ‘roids should get in the HOF?

Every pitch thrown to Josh Hamilton is recorded as an E1. -- clark

by knockoutking on Aug 8, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

other: JD

Tony Romo's #1 fan!

by Longhorn on Aug 8, 2008 3:52 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Objective Tool Adapted for the Rangers

A while ago I did a series of diaries where I adapted Bill James’s objective ranking formula for WARP and ranked players by position. I decided to adapt that for the players in the poll. Essentially the same formula, just only using their games played as a Ranger.

Palmeiro, Rafael 109.09
Rodriguez, Alex 107.35
Bell, Buddy 101.67
Young, Michael 99.48
Harrah, Toby 95.19
Sundberg, Jim 90.16
Sierra, Ruben 90.03
Greer, Rusty 83.26
Franco, Julio 81.91
Burroughs, Jeff 52.54
Grieve, Tom 27.12

A few notes:

WARP works for pitchers, but I haven’t figured out a good way to adapt the formula to compare pitchers to eachother, let alone to position players. I think I’ll make a rough estimate, though.

The system is designed for a player with at least five seasons, so A-Rod is slightly skewed. That said, with two more seasons like he had here, he’d’ve been WAYYYYYYYYY in front.

I was probably going to use my next vote (assuming Palmeiro wins) on the horrifically underrated Buddy Bell anyway. This kind’ve cements it for me.

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 4:00 PM CDT reply reply 1 recs

Buddy Bell

is being ignored because of the age of Lone Star Ball posters. Same with Sundberg, Fergie, Burroughs, Toby…

by bhudson on Aug 8, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

I think he's pretty underrated by people even outside of LSB.

I actually wasn’t necessarily meaning to point my finger at you guys. I think he’s a border-line Hall of Famer who hasn’t gotten enough attention.

I don’t know that I’d put him in. In fact, I lean towards “no,” but he deserves the discussion. To my knowledge, he didn’t get much of it at the time and still doesn’t.

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 4:51 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Do you have a ranking for Pete O'Brien

Just out of curiosity for one of my childhood favorites?

Or a links to the relevant diaries? It sounds really interesting.

by bhudson on Aug 8, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Fan Posts

Catchers

First Basemen

Second Basemen

I got distracted, but should have the other positions eventually.

I’ll have O’Brien in the next post.

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

O'Brien Comes out at:

70.39

As a Ranger. His career certainly isn’t that good, since he seems to have fallen apart after he left here.

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 4:56 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

That is probably

about where I would have guessed. Maybe a little better than I expected. He certainly wasn’t great, just good, and a super nice guy.

by bhudson on Aug 9, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

odibe mcdowel!

steve buchelle!

jose canseco!

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Aug 8, 2008 4:16 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Homerun-off-the-head GIF in 3. . . 2. . . 1. . .

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Players already voted in, btw.

Igor: 94.09
Pudge: 121.20

by philkid3 on Aug 8, 2008 9:31 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

Damn...

Pudge with 121. Just another stat to show how great he was while here.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Aug 9, 2008 10:25 AM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

There’s no way I’m voting Rusty over Mr. Rafael “I wag my finger as I deny I never did steroids” Palmeiro.

by chrisR on Aug 9, 2008 12:12 AM CDT reply reply 0 recs

If Charlie Hough

doesn’t make the Top 5 then there are a lot of people on this board who are too young to remember just how good he was during his stay here.

by robert_d_wilfong on Aug 9, 2008 12:16 PM CDT reply reply 0 recs

I'd agree with you if you said top 10, though even the top 10 is starting to get tight.

by bhudson on Aug 9, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

Not too young

I didn’t live in DFW until the fall of ‘92, and didn’t start following the Rangers until the next season. But, yeah, because of that I don’t know much about the significance of guys like Hough for the organization.

Time you enjoy wasting was not wasted.

by t ball on Aug 9, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs

I was going to try to pull some data to campaign for him

But found he wasn’t nearly as statistically good as I remember (good ol’ day syndrome, I suppose).

The 80s were my prime baseball watching years—and his run with the Rangers coincided. What I remeber is that he was about the only hope those 60-70 win Ranger teams had. And the stats I found do support that:

His win total was 20% or more of the team’s total wins during the 1982-88 stretch.
20 times during his 9-year Ranger career he took the loss when giving up 2 runs or less.
He started 40 games in 1987
Pitched more than 230 innings in 8 of 9 years; 182 in the one other (when he was 41 in 1989)

1.2-1.35 WHIP every year, 111-128 ERA+ in six of the years; sub 100 in the other three, high 3s to low 4s ERA.

Probably not Top 5 worthy afterall.

Unless you find it impressive that he used to periodically light up in the tunnel while the Rangers were batting.

by robert_d_wilfong on Aug 9, 2008 6:12 PM CDT up reply reply 0 recs