Thursday a.m. things
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 11, 2008 9:26 AM CDT
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PrintThat was disappointing yesterday. Apparently, if we trade Gerald Laird this offseason, we're going to have to send Kevin Millwood with him, because there's no one else that Millwood seems able to pitch to.
Evan Grant's game story from yesterday focuses on the two unearned runs that were the difference in the game.
And that segues into Mike Hindman's blog post about Michael Young, his contract, and his defense at shortstop. I've been thinking about writing about the Young situation, but haven't, for a variety of reasons. And now, thanks to Mike, I don't have to...he sums it up pretty well.
Michael Young isn't an acceptable defensive shortstop, and his bat isn't going to play well at any other position. As Hindman points out, the idea that folks float out there about Young being an asset as a left fielder or a DH just don't make sense, because he's not going to hit enough at those positions to be better than replacement value there. You are stuck either putting him at third base and hoping he's good enough defensively there to be average overall, or maybe just a little below average, or you can put him on the bench at $16 million per year through 2013.
For some reason, there's been this notion that Michael Young is going to break the mold and get better, not worse, as he gets older, with the broadcasters repeating the oft-used meme of "just tell Michael Young he can't do something, and he'll do it." Tom Grieve said, after that comment was made, that someone should tell Young he can't get 200 hits this year, although my reaction was, someone should tell him he can't be a good defensive shortstop, because him proving the world wrong on that issue would be a hell of a lot more meaningful than getting 200 hits.
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dumb question coming
Since Kinsler isn’t a great defensive 2nd and Elvis is on the way up, is there any way that Young could move to 2nd, Ian to a COF and Andrus to SS? Or would MY be just as bad at 2nd?
Kinsler
I think he’s got more range than Young does. His issue is errors, which I think is correctable. I don’t think Young to 2B in place of Kinsler is a defensive upgrade.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 11, 2008 9:37 AM CDT up reply actions
I disagree on Kinsler
His errors are mostly mental concentration. I think he is what he is and will make errors out of random easy plays.
Are you saying
you don’t think mental concentration is correctable?
he’s still hitting better than Saltalasuckia—while playing vastly superior defense...Athos
Not his..
.. he has ADD and takes meds, but that’s imperfect. I think he has the physical tools to be an elite defensive second baseman, but I don’t think he ever will be able to perform consistently enough to get there. He’ll get to balls he shouldn’t, but he’ll continue to muff on easy plays.
Kinsler was also a good fielder last year.
And only a little below average as a rookie. I’m not going to be certain he’s a bad fielder with one bad (admittedly very bad) season. Particularly when he has so much range, which makes it easier to believe improvement is possible.
Hanley Ramirez was a -37 fielder last season, which is far, far worse than Kinsler could ever hope to be. This year he’s been +2.
The speed and depth
of Young’s decline has been a surprise. I think we all expected him to decline over the life of this contract, but I’m sure all hoped he would not sink to a .735 OPS so soon (though Cahill is probably already typing that he predicted exactly that). Comps to Paul Molitor have always sounded a little strained and are now just plain ridiculous.
Davis has looked passable at 3B. If you’re looking for the best defense at the hot corner you can do better, but I’ll need convincing that Young can be better than Davis over there. The contract may not completely hamstring the team, but it looks worse by the day.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
Evan Grant answered an e-mail last year...
…telling me that Young would turn into Molitor.
I wasn’t sure whether to laugh or cry.
I pointed out that Molitor’s late 30’s were better than Young’s late 20’s.
I never got any response to that.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
Depth at 3B
It’s Whittleman and West.
Stick Young at 3B, move Davis back to where he’s served out his pro career, and then do the next thing.
The economics of the game will lessen the blow of Young’s extension, apart from the fact that $16m costs less as you approach 2013.
Anything Young gives over his projected decline is gravy. By all accounts he works hard.
I dunno. You have to call it half full.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 11, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions
to a point
I agree. Overall, the team is probably better off with Davis at 1B, Young at 3B, and someone who can play defense at SS, than with Davis at 3B, Young at SS and someone else at 1B. The left side of the infield has been a joke this year, defensively speaking.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
Davis is not passable at 3B
RZR of .545 (!) at 3B so far, and -7 in Dewan’s Plus/Minus.
Small sample size but...
…troubling if that continues.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions
I don't expect
much more than that from Young.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
Do you have anything to back that assertion with?
by Joey Matschulat on Sep 11, 2008 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Are you attempting to be ironic?
Seems odd to assume that a person who discounts stats would have stats to back up his assertion.
defensive stat formulas
are, shall we say, exotic. DIPS is based on the premise that pitchers do not differ in the ability to get outs on balls put into play. I can’t think of a more flawed premise.
Actually,
DIPS is based on the premise that MAJOR LEAGUE-QUALITY pitchers do not differ MUCH in the ability to get outs on balls in play.
It’s more accurate to use DIPS (or similar variations, FIP and xFIP) as a predictor of future ERA than ERA itself for major league pitchers.
R
Nah, I missed it by a ton
He’s hitting .281/.333/.402 for an OPS of 735
and I predicted .291/.341/.395 680 PAs for an OPS of 736.
So, I missed it by a mile. I’m just surprised I didn’t get the usual post by Ben Morris or Brian Thomas asking me if I was green and lived in a trash can, or was always so pessimistic when I made it.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
There's no way for me to prove it but...
…those numbers are very similar to what I predicted.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 11:10 AM CDT up reply actions
Kudos
I thought you had been in that neighborhood when we did our preseason numbers, but I’m too lazy to search. I suppose we could hope that this is related to his finger injury, but I’m not quite that optimistic.
You are green and you do live in a trash can, this doesn’t change that.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
pretty close as well
.288/.330/.420
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
Will the Earth stop spinning...
…when MY fails to reach 200 hits this year? Lewin probably fears that it will.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
Young
While he’s had a poor year at the plate, Young can make adjustments and get healthy in the offseason and put together a rebound year in 2009. The defense is hopeless. The front office must have a sense of urgency about it this offseason. Young needs to be moved to 3B with a stopgap, plus defending SS as a bridge to Andrus in 2010.
Also, if Young moves to 3B he can bulk up some and become a 20HR guy (that’s my hope, at least) – that would make his bat competitive for that position.
by Randy Richardson on Sep 11, 2008 10:06 AM CDT reply actions
I don't think that will happen with his power.
You can only hope he can stay clutch, bat .300 and have an OBP of .350+
Young's only hope is to try to work more walks
Maybe failing to get to 200 hits will convince him to do that
I'm not ready to say Young is on a decline
It could very well just be a down year.
I agree, MY is not worth the contract extension. I also agree that MY needs to switch positions because he’s a liability at SS. What we have to remember is that a lot of us didn’t think he would be producing (or even playing) when he got the hand injury.
I don’t think MY will get 200 hits this year but I think he has a strong chance next year. I think MY’s role is going to change where he’ll be a .300 hitter with 200 hits but declining power. That’s ok though, if he can be a .300 hitter with OBP of .350 or higher from the #2 hole with no power, I’d be extremely happy. The most important thing is if he can be clutch enough to avoid constant double plays from the #2 hole.
Again, he’s not worth 16M a year but things could be A LOT worse.
Just to stir up the pot on Galarraga some more
Here’s an article listing the luckiest pitchers this year. It’s not just Adam that thinks he’s due for regression:
http://web.sny.tv/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080910&content_id=1474836&oid=35003_f&vkey=42
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
So does anybody in here who worships at the sacred
Church Of JD want to defend the contract he gave Michael Young?
I thought hindman was going to take his ball and go home after getting a little push back on his take that the Rangers spend enough money on payroll given the market-size of DFW.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Sep 11, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions
Quit
trying to goad people into an interminable debate. Your pot-shots at Hindman are pretty pathetic as well, by the way.
You have improved since coming over from newberg’s, but there’s still 90% chaff to 10% of worthwhile posts. your ratio is improving but posts like the above do nothing but keep your overall body of work at the level of crap we’ve all been used to
What's the rumpus?
If Hindman brings in "well researched"
topics espousing bs that the Rangers have been spending enough money on payroll (and that Tom Hicks is barely making a profit) the last few years despite being the number 5 media market, I am always going to call him on it.
When he threatens to leave or not bring down any more stone tablets from the baseball mountain-top when he gets some push back, I’m also going to call him on that.
If I get push back on one of my many hot sports opinions, I always have my ducks in a row and welcome any argument.
I also never threaten to take my ball and go home.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
This news aien't new
Cmon…we all know Young sucks at short. In fact, he wasn’t that great at 2nd either. We are paying for his bat and his leadership skills. You can’t buy respect in this league, and Young seems to have everyone looking up to him. So, who cares what position he plays….you can’t have it all.
But his bat
is not longer adequate either. You’re ok with a .735 OPS? He hits like a SS but fields like a DH. You might as well put Max Ramirez at SS.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
Sure
Of course it’s a little unfair. Max Ramirez would hit much better than .735.
"He was a self-made man who owed his lack of success to nobody."
Um,
you don’t think there’s a slight chance Ramirez will hit better than that when he’s no longer a rookie? I’m obviously not serious about putting him at SS, but I would not be the least bit surprised if Ramirez out hit Young in 2009.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
STL should put Pujols at C
MIL should put Braun at 2B
COL should put Holliday at SS
What’s the point of putting players out of position?
Do you really think
I was serious about Ramirez at SS? And Young is out of position anywhere.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
Well
Can you name another bad contract on the roster?
I don’t know why I’m feeling the apologist today…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 11, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions
And it doesn't even rank on the list of all crippling contracts, either.
…Not even for the Rangers.
by FuturePants on Sep 11, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions
Yes,
MY’s contract is definitely crippling. You can’t spend $80 million on a below average player, and its likely he will be below average for the majority of that contract.
It’s one of the 10 highest positional contracts in the league, for a mediocre player.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Yah
Torii Hunter sure is killing the Angels. Or I mean, GMJ. Or, wait.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 11, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
bunch of tight asses
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
That cheered me up today...
…thanks for the laugh.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
I'm not saying the K is not crippling.
I’m just saying it could be worse. It could be a la Juan Gonzalez, CHP, A-Rod, Albert Belle, et al.
by FuturePants on Sep 11, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Yup
The only crappy thing about the ARod signing is that we didn’t hold onto him and ended up trading him for Soriano.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 10:37 PM CDT up reply actions
Soriano was okay...
but the cluster-F was trading him for Wilkerson and then DFA’ing Galarraga.
Pure genius, Boy Blunder.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Sep 12, 2008 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Soriano
Wasn’t nearly enough for the best player in the game.
by brettgardner on Sep 12, 2008 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions
Of course the fact we had him all but traded straight up for Manny + Lester
makes it hurt that much more.
The best part of that whole debacle has always been that we ended up not dealing him to Boston because they refused to kick in any money on Manny’s contract, and then ended up picking up a huge chunk of ARod’s contract to deal him to NY.
To conclude this rant: I hope John Hart ends up as the new GM in Seattle.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 12, 2008 4:04 AM CDT up reply actions
Unless we get a ML shortstop
in a trade or FA signing, i think we’re stuck with MY at short next year. If Andrus is ready in 2010, MY goes to third then. At that point we’ll have Davis, Hamilton, Smoak, Kinsler, Murphy, MaxRam, maybe Byrd or Cruz, and maybe even Teagarden providing the power. We won’t need a big power bat at third. Instead we’ll have a team leader and a hits-for-average guy there. Could be worse. Agree that his fielding, especially at short is an albatross, but we’ve got a much bigger problem than MY’s contract, its called pitching.
Money poorly spent is poorly spent...
…wherever it is spent.
Offense-first positions like 3B, LF and DH are hinderances when manned by average or below average offensive players no matter what type of production you receive from other positions.
It’s like in the “glory days” of the Rangers IF when they were getting above average production from Tex, Soriano, MY and Hank. That didn’t excuse the poor production from the OF.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions
So by that logic
We should have 5 offensive position players(CIF, COF, DH) and 4 non-offensive position players(MIF, C, CF)?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
No you should strive to get production from as many spots...
…as possible. You should not be satisfied with poor production from traditionally offensive positions simply because you are getting it from traditionally defensive ones.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions
OK
But in 2010 our roster looks to be something like this:
C: Salty/Max/TT (one or two fo them)
1B: Davis or Smoak
2B: Kinsler
3B: MY
SS:Andrus
CF: Borbon
LF: Murphy/ Boggs/ JMJ
RF: Hammy
DH: MB/ one of the 1B/ Max (one of them)
Out of that lineup does having MY at 3B if he is truly a defensive upgrade really hurt us that much?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Again just because there are other good offensive players in the lineup...
…that does not excuse having a (hopefully) league-average offensive player at a position that should be stocked with above average ones.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Normally though
your below average positions are being held down by cheap young players, so you can spend the big money on the monsters that carry your team. Spending big money on a guy who at best was a good 3rd or 4th cog in a machine is pretty silly.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
But its not something to get all bent out of shape about either
Not every team can be 9 sluggers. teams have to have a mixture of sluggers and others. Just because one of our others comes from a position that traditionally has been for sluggers doesn’t mean its bad.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Just a question...
I know that the sentiment on the board is that Jarrod Saltalamacchia is a blood relative of The Tin Man, but does anyone think that Max Ramirez might be able to handle a corner outfield spot?
Throughout Baseball history, catchers have been players who wouldn’t have much value if they were unable to play the position, so precedent isn’t very telling. Dale Murphy, Brian Downing and Todd Zeile come most quickly to mind as success stories, but Carlton Fisk and Johnny Bench didn’t work out so well.
Republican or Democrat? You mean I have to pick just one? But what if I love violence AND hate liberty?
by YourNameHere on Sep 11, 2008 3:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Whos spot would he take?
Hamilton has a spot locked up. Borbon is going to be the defensive CF we have been looking for since we moved into TBiA. And while his offense might be better than Murphy or Boggs or JMJ does the drop in defense outweigh the increase in offense? He doesn’t look to have to quickness and acceleration to play the OF very well. Maybe a couple years ago when we were desperate for OFs would this idea be feasible but now that we have too many I don’t think it is wise to even think about it.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
If he's that awful...
This was really just a question, and I don’t think it’s such a bad to consider your possibilities within reason (and I think this idea is within reason, although I might be alone on this one).
Max Ramirez has played in just 13 games and has 48 plate appearances in the Major League so far, so I’m not sure if he’s got the range to handle the position (as I stated, there just isn’t a lot of precedent for moving catchers to other positions). Although, since he’s been playing catcher, I would imagine that he has the arm to handle a corner outfield spot. Also, because he’s only seen limited time in the big leagues, I’m really not sure what Ramirez is capable of with the bat.
The big question is going to be about the trade market for catchers this off-season and in subsequent periods along with the Rangers preferences regarding their current roster.
Republican or Democrat? You mean I have to pick just one? But what if I love violence AND hate liberty?
by YourNameHere on Sep 11, 2008 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with you about the bat
He had an amazing season this year. BUT it was at AA. Nothing in his small sample size at either AAA or the Majors has me personally believing he is going to be the monster in the middle of the lineup like so many want to make him out to be. He may and I would love to see it but all this talk about letting Milton walk and just plugging Max in his spot and expecting him to make this lineup work like Milton does baffles me. Personally I want Max to spend the majority of next year in OKC as the catcher full time and let him force his way onto the big league roster.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
MY
If I am going to have an albatross contract I would much rather it be my SS than a SP
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
But it won't be your SS...
…after ’09.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 11:05 AM CDT up reply actions
OK
But you get my point. 3B or SS its much better than a SP with an albatross contract.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I'm not sure why.
MY is likely to be a below average player. I think MJH is dead on as characterizing it as an albatross contract. Of course, some of us have been saying it since the moment it was signed.
MY’s decline isn’t extraordinary, It’s pretty much what you would expect if you discount ’05 as a career year.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
My point
Is not whether MYs contract is an albatross. It is. But if you are going to have an albatross contract I would much rather it be from your 3B or SS than a SP.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I'm not sure why.
You can move a SP to the bullpen. A bad defensive SS that can no longer hit, has trouble being placed anywhere. More allowances are made at SS than any other position.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Sure
Maybe for a start or two. But there is absolutely no way a team would move a guy they are paying 16-20 million dollars a year to to the bullpen permanently. Its not gonna happen.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Injury
While his power numbers have dropped, let’s not forget he’s played through injuries this year. Didn’t he break two fingers?
i'm with you
but noone else is on board. this has become a MY hotseat party. forget about all the intangibles and just look at ZR and OPS. Noone even bothers to look at FPCT or DPs.
FPCT is a terrible stat
you realize he could stand in one place and get a 1.000 fielding percentage – which is pretty close to what he does
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
Which is expected from even the worst fielders...
…the problem is he gets to far fewer balls than the average SS.
Also, one would expect the infielders on a team with poor pitching to turn a lot of DPs. The pitchers put more men on base which results in more opportunities to turn them.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions
good point
however, it seems that Jeter has only turned about half of Young…and their pitching isn’t that great. Not to mention he has 4 more errors and only gets to .017 more balls.
Jeter's defense sucks...
…and it has for years. That’s a comp that doesn’t help MY’s case.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions
yanks fans are morons
and at least they can point to some WS rings
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
And let me get this straight
The Rangers fans are the smartest people in the world?
You’re just being a jackass.
you are defending fans that think jeter is a good defensive SS?
ok…
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
When did he say anything about Rangers fans?
He said Yankees fans are morons. Which is true. He never said Rangers fans are or are not, he said nothing about them. He’s not being a jackass, you’re just having trouble keeping up.
That said, I know of several communities where the Yankees fans ARE crying about Jeter’s problems and want him moved.
i don't know what DP stat you are looking at
but are you counting DP’s that Kinsler started?
There are good things about mike young – such as he doesn’t botch that many plays and he has a strong arm – but the bad far outweighs the good. your SS has to get to more balls, especially with a ground ball pitchers
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
so, THAT'S his problem????
Apparently, if we trade Gerald Laird this offseason, we’re going to have to send Kevin Millwood with him, because there’s no one else that Millwood seems able to pitch to.
glad we determined what was wrong with millwood
i thought it was just b/c he sucked
by sam in so cal on Sep 11, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well
I’ve been called apologist, defender, etc about Young. Even when the contract was announced and I just called it too much for too long. Even rationalized it by suggesting career annual average doesn’t look so bad.
I think the mix of natural decline and two hand injuries has messed up his 2008. He has either insisted, been allowed, or condoned to play through damage to both hands. Only the lack of another shortstop justifies that. Oh I know, the tough it out image has been cited.
I guess my take is that the contract is out of bounds in Mike’s favor. But albatross? Not to but hell no. An ablatross would prevent FA signings, lock a player into a position where he is no longer the prime candidate for play, and generally harm the budget. Topping the budget does not necessarily harm to budget.
There are so many things wrong with pitching and maybe roster selections up to this point, it’s looking for a scapegoat to pin any lack of success on Mike Young. Does he fail to meet some expectations? Sure. Can he return to 2005 levels? Probably not. Can he produce at career average levels. Probably yes IF healed up and repositioned when Andrus is ready.
His “fails” have been an everyday topic. I guess it’s easier to pick on the guy at the front of the payroll pack than a more balanced overall assessment. BTW I’m not pleased with some of the characterizations given MY. He’s not a little tin god, and he’s not a malingerer.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Sep 11, 2008 11:29 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Let's not forget..
.. in 2008 .. this team still leads the league in runs scored by a healthy margin. MY is not hurting this team.
how are they doing in runs allowed?
MY is hurting this team
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
"BTW I’m not pleased with some of the characterizations given MY. "
Which characterizations?
His lack of range?
His lack of walks?
His lack of power?
Most of the criticisms of MY have been towards his performance on the field, which are legitimite for a 16 million man, not towards his person.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Young
I think people could live with some of his defensive downfalls if he at least hit for decent power for his position.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
If he drew walks
and had a great OBP even, I think he wouldn’t get so much grief. He used to hit for average, but he really didn’t get on base at an elite level, because he has never drawn walks. He hasn’t hit for power since he lost that 20 pounds “trying to improve his defense”.
As his average slips, he really doesn’t bring that much to the tables, and his much vaunted total hits will drop, because eventually they have to stop hitting him at the top of the order, and a lot of his hits come from an extremely large number of ABs due to hitting at the top of the order, and not taking many walks.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
On Young in '08.
He has stunk it up at the plate—I don’t think anyone can question that. I think part of that was due to all the injury issues he’s had this season. I don’t think we can expect another huge decline in OPS in 2009. Realistically, I think you expect him to have an OPS between .785 and .815.
His defense isn’t nearly as bad as his detractors believe. We keep hearing comparisons to immovable objects like stumps, etc., which is pretty foolish. Most everything he gets to ends up being an out. He still has a good glove and a good arm. Frankly, a ton of his detractors get pissed at him for not getting to balls that few short stops could get to, let alone make a play if they did. He is below average to average defensively, and if he were hitting like he did after April last season, I doubt there would be near this much attention on his defense.
The contract is way too much, but realistically he’s probably overpaid by about $6-8 million per season (much more, obviously, if this year’s offensive numbers aren’t a product of injuries), and if that amount stops Hicks from spending money on any free agent or home grown stud, then the fault is Hicks’. He has constantly said he’ll break budget for the “right” player. If he’s a man of his word, then Young’s money shouldn’t make any difference.
I’m not looking to get into a debate on Young as I’ve had too many of them before, so this will be my only comment. Fire away. Cahill gets first dibs.
"Most everything he gets to ends up being an out."
I believe this to be true. He just doesn’t get to much, compared to your average SS.
Which would be fine, if his bat could cover his lack or range, or if he had rangy defenders around him. Neither seems to be true anymore. None of this would be a huge problem, if he wasn’t going to be one of the highest paid players in baseball next year.
It was just a dumb, dumb contract at the time. There is no way that dumb contracts don’t hurt ballclubs. It’s conceivable the best place for MY, based on production alone, down the road is the bench. However, most likely they will be forced to stick him on the field.
15-25 of the payroll, for a player who will likely be below average for the majority of the contract, is gonna hurt the team.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Oh Well
Millwood has sucked for years at 15 per, and Adam and other Rangers fans never cared.
So all this is disingenuous, to say the least.
I’m glad hes here, anyway. Much better to overpay and keep a guy here than trade out for more crap, as we have done ad infinitum over the last years, which we keep sucking.
Also, defense is a LSB crutch. There’s no way to measure defense. Young is probably superb defensively,
Get your facts straight
As usual, you’re twisting facts. Millwood’s salary is $8.5M in 2008, $11M in 2009, and IF his option vests, $12M in 2010. Not the best contract, not the worst, but it’s not $15M per.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
Hard to get your facts straight...
When you don’t even watch the damn games.
He’s too busy getting his political facts down to worry about baseball.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
In Lieu of "Great Clubhouse Guys"...
There seems to be a lot of talk about how great certain guys are in the clubhouse. And that got me thinking about what the Rangers can do to improve morale. So here’s what I thought:
Taylor Teagarden’s family lives in the DFW Area. Chris Davis’s family isn’t too far away in Longview. I’ve seen Jim Knox talking to Brandon Boggs’s mom at games when she’s in town. And Jamey Wright’s dad lives in Oklahoma. Now if Ron Washington can get a few of their parents’ to drive, Jarrod Saltalamacchia’s mom (Ohhh, you mean that’s his Wife?!!!) to drive, and he, Jon Daniels and Nolan Ryan can drive, they can take them out for ice cream after ALL (Yes, ALL!!!) home games.
Think about it, 25 guys at $8-a-piece is (As Much Toppings As They Want!!!) is $200. For 81 games, that $16,200. This way you don’t have to play $5-20 Million on a player to improve morale and you don’t have to give up one of your precious roster spaces to someone who doesn’t deserve it.
Thoughts?
Republican or Democrat? You mean I have to pick just one? But what if I love violence AND hate liberty?
Set it to music
And you have the sequel to “Oklahoma”. Should play well on Broadway, maybe even a subsequent movie!
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Sep 11, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions
Unwarranted shot at Jarrod's wife?
Am I correct in assuming that’s your reason for calling him a moron?
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
Ouch...
Just a joke. Jarrod’s wife Ashley is supposedly about 14 years older than him. She taught at his high school while he was a student there (although she never taught him directly), so he probably has had his friends give him some crap along with A WHOLE LOT OF PROPS, because that is pretty cool.
Republican or Democrat? You mean I have to pick just one? But what if I love violence AND hate liberty?
by YourNameHere on Sep 11, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
The fact
that you feel that unwarranted shots at players wives are fair play and cute. How would you like it? Another thing, it could be that his “friends” give him crap but you’re not one of them and I doubt you would say it to his face. Thats no joke.
So, seriously...
are you 525dp, or are you one of Salty’s other relatives?
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
I just do not understand the need to defend MY.
I haven’t seen anyone in this thread attack his character, or say he and only he is the reason the Rangers suck, or anything like that. They point out what’s true. That’s he’s not a good hitter. That he’s an attrocious fielder. That his contract sucks, and was given to someone who was set for a natural decline.
I’m not sure how anyone can claim these things aren’t true and why anyone feels the need to defend a player just because.
As far as moving MY to LF or DH, I don’t think most of us who suggested that actually thought he’d be an assett there. We were thinking his idiotic contract would make the Rangers unwilling or unable to trade or bench him, and figured that’s where he’d do the least damage if played.
I’m not sure LF is that position, I would lean more towards that being third base or DH. Regardless, it’s going to be a pain putting that much money for that little production at a position where offense is so relatively easily available. I like the guy, but he’s going to start hurting us.
It’s not because he’s malicious, it’s because he’s old and this front office overrated him.
Well said...
…the attacks on his character have been few and far between. For the most part all we are trying to do is point out that the emperor has no clothes on and the elephant in the corner is the MY contract.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
yeah we cant continue to put FOTF at short
does anyone agree with me on putting Kinsler at short until elvus is ready?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
Kinsler moved to second base in the minors because he couldn't play short
moving him there is not really and option.
forgot about that, thanks
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
Actually
I think Kinsler moved to 2B in the minors because FOTF was at short…
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 11, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Check this out
I can’t keep you with Joey. He seems to have a good take on every Rangers related issue. I give up trying. I’m going to ask Evan Grant to marry me and call it a day.
http://mvn.com/mlb-rangers/2008/09/11/texas-shortstop-diaries-the-michael-young-dilemma/
3B eqa chart
It’s good to remember that in the last couple of years, 3B haven’t really outhit 2B. That’s partly due to some 2B hitting really well lately, but the state of 3B isn’t particularly strong right now.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
Regarding MY's offense
it seems most are really ragging his OPS which this year sucks. I feel that any of these avg’s that are used for evaluation need to be put in perspective every so often so that the Perot effect can be counteracted a little.
If MY converted one out into one BB every 7 games, hit a couple of more homeruns and 3-5 more doubles, his OPS would jump around 40 – 50 points. Even with these small changes in outcome, I think that such savaging, recurring discussions of MY would cease.
I really don’t know what to think of defensive metrics when some claim MY is the worst and some say he’s OK or better than OK, all with a statistical basis.
BTW, I’m one who would disparage MY a little because he appears to be a robot without much personality and has done some things (in ‘04 especially) that makes me think he can be a clubhouse problem if he’s not revered enough to get his way. So I’m liable to be hard on him rather than easy.
what did he do in '04?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
He and Tex
pissed on the front office off record to the press for not adding vets to the mix at the expense of prospects. When they were young starter themselves who had been given their chance over trading for vets.
The contract is too big no doubt...
but in part it was due to past work. If memory serves me right(being to lazy to look it up), he moved off of 2B where he was an all-star to move to SS. In turn, he signed team friendly contracts. IT IS WAY TO MUCH MONEY, but he would be a adequate 3B.
1/20/09 - The end of a error.
Basing contracts on past work and throwing up your hands and hoping the future works out?
That’s the stuff idiotic front offices do.
Smart front offices pay attention to the future.
Unfortunately
its tough to believe we have any more than an average front office.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
EG
made some real sense. I think it comes down to the fact that the contract is bad (imo, not an albatross), and MY looks bad in comparison to Elvis already. Clearly, MY is not a proto-type for third, but his skill set (good hands, strong arm) lend to above-average fielder at the position. To be fair, his offensive numbers are skewed due to his broken fingers. It stands to reason that MY should return to offensive form next year.
1/20/09 - The end of a error.
1/20/09 – The end of a error.
Does someone get fired on this day?
by oc on Sep 11, 2008 7:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Inauguration day.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
This is the most depressing Rangers' subject of them all.
"The question of how we came to be is a philosophical one." - 4HIM
by inactive lsb user on Sep 11, 2008 7:12 PM CDT reply actions
Neyer, Law
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=neyer_rob&univLogin02=stateChanged
Rob Neyer weighs in on the subject by linking to Hindman’s blog and then linking to an article written by Law in early March stating pretty much what HIndman did, but back in March, with some additional insite.
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