Newberg Report Top 20
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 12:36 PM CDT
116 comments
The latest installment of my weekly ranking of the top 20 prospects in the Rangers’ farm system has now been posted on the official Rangers website, www.texasrangers.com.
Here’s a direct link to this week's column:
http://tinyurl.com/6ohssq
-- Jamey
Dirkatron, please forgive me.
Dirkatron, please forgive me.
Dirkatron, please forgive me.
Dirkatron, please forgive me.
Dirkatron, please forgive me.
Dirkatron, please forgive me.
Dirkatron, please forgive me.
Dirkatron, please forgive me.
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Dirkatron, please forgive me.
Screw him!
/Nellie
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on Sep 11, 2008 12:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Last one this year? Offseason?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 11, 2008 12:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Monthly updates
To account for fall/winter ball performance (Holland would have moved up last October after what I saw of him at Instructs), as well as prospects lost or gained through trades or Rule 5.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bravo and two questions
Great end-of-season prospect list, Jamey. It’s hard to argue with any of your Top19 selections and their placement.
Two questions for you;
(1) In your opinion, what is the likelihood that Poveda would get claimed in the Rule 5 draft if he is not added to the 40 man roster? If you were the Rangers’ GM, would you add him to the 40?
(2) Should Nelson Cruz remain on the 40 man roster this winter?
by spurdynasty on Sep 11, 2008 1:01 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks.
(1) Very tough call. Easier to answer if we load up and trade some 40-man guys for a starting pitcher, freeing up some room. Poveda is this winter’s Boggs.
(2) Yes.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poveda
I can’t believe they would consider leaving Poveda off of the 40, especially while adding JMJ and Vallejo and carrying Reinecker and White. I think that’s a decision that could really come back to bite them.
--Brian
by BCanfield on Sep 12, 2008 9:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
if they let him go it will come back, BUT i also don’t think another team and afford to carry poveda on the 25man all year.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 12, 2008 9:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gamble
That’s a gamble I’d rather not take. Protect the guy. We’ll have plenty of room to carry him next year. The year after, though, will be a tougher proposition….
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Sep 12, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
40 man room
i don’t know, adam did a post about this not long ago and there isn’t a ton of room left on the 40 even assuming they dont bring back any of the free agents.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 12, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a good few guys on the 40 man though
that aren’t likely to be picked up by another team nor are likely to bite this team in the ass as much as if they let Poveda go. Would you trade Murray, Rheinecker, or Littleton for Poveda?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Sep 12, 2008 11:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a ton
I count 37 on the 40 msn if you protect JMJ, Poveda and let guys like Vazquez, Wright, Bradley go. That leaves very few spots for acquiring FA’s, but if FA’s are acquired that means they have to replace someone on the field or on the mound, which will cause some DFA’s, releases, etc.
To me Poveda is a promising arm and one you can’t take that gamble on. I really do believe that there will be an Oakland/Nats/KC who will take a flyer on Omar and hide him in the pen.
What's the rumpus?
by Hypo-Luxa on Sep 12, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you counting the guys on the 60 day DL who have to come off in the offseason?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Sep 12, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's one of the reasons I really think they need to...
…take a long, hard look at Metcalf. I really don’t think he is the kind of player that you should protect at the risk of losing an arm like Poveda.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 12, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait -- just the top 19?
No love for Laughter?
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
#20 is for marketing the under-appreciated, right?
As such, I haven’t been holding your feet to the fire on #20. I like Laughter as much as the next guy and have been impressed by his performance this year (except the K’s), but you have to admit that there are probably 20 guys in teh Rangers system who are more worthy of the #20 slot.
by spurdynasty on Sep 11, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not admit that.
Since this was basically a season-ender, I actually chose a number 20 and deleted the rotating “of the week” label. Laughter is #20 for me.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 1:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I admit to having only seen Laughter and Garr one time each, but I think Garr is more likely to stick in the Rangers bullpen. In fact, I would rate Laughter third among Frisco’s three bullpen arms (behind Jones as well). What has Laughter shown you that gets your prospect juices flowing?
by spurdynasty on Sep 11, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's intangible.
There’s something about Laughter that makes me think that, three years from now, he could hold down the 7th or maybe 8th inning for a very good team.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've certainly seen Laughter more than I
I guess I’ll have to bump him up a few notches on my watch list.
by spurdynasty on Sep 11, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
laughter
he’s good, though admittedly i wouldn’t put him top 20.
when he’s on his game the guy can be un-hittable, but i’ve seen him blow up pretty bad too.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 11, 2008 2:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The idea that he's a better prospect than Lemon makes me, errrr, laugh.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the idea that anyone is better than lemon makes you errr laugh
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 11, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh, I'm not that obsessed
I don’t even have him in my top 10. I just think it’s borderline ludicrous to hate him like a fat girl hates gym class the way Newberg does.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Distribution of pitching prospects
What I really like about this list of prospects is that the pitching prospects ar spread up and down the system. Every minor league rotation at the beginning of 2009 is likely to have at least two compelling prospects:
AAA = Hunter + Hurley or Harrison
AA = Holland + Feliz + Kiker + Poveda
A+ = Main + Beavan
A = Boscan + Perez + Ramirez
A- = Font + Ross
Plus Diamond and Gomez and Pimental and Weiland and Castillo and …
by spurdynasty on Sep 11, 2008 1:26 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
...and...
Ocampo and T.Murphy and B.Jones and . . .
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 1:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Murphy
Is it just me, or does his left-handed stuff look a lot like Matt Harrison’s?
by spurdynasty on Sep 11, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really like Murphy, his delivery is so deceptive
do you see him more as a starter or a reliever?
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
by Seth. on Sep 11, 2008 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This anti-Lemon movement saddens and terrifies me
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 2:33 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Well
The problem with Lemon is that he’s already 20 and in the Cal League, and, there is the fact that all he does is hit and walk at a premium defensive position.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep nothing to see here folks...
…huge bust.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Already 20?
That’s still young for high A ball.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 11, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he was being facetious...
…I know I was when I responded. L’il Chet is progressing just fine and will someday make an impact at the ML level. Here or elsewhere.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are correct
i thought that was obvious from atleast the 2nd part of that statement. But yeah, if it was possible to be a bigger fan of Lemon than the tron is…that person would be me.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 3:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lemon
What is it about him that fires you up?
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can hit, get on base, doesn’t strike out much (especially this year). I think he can still be an above average SS. I know he’s had a lot of errors this year, but, for example, Jeter at almost the same developmental level had a 50+ error season in the minors. I know people think he’s a 2B. I don’t buy it, and I’m not going to give up on him at SS at 20 just yet. He has improved a lot since last year. His age is a definite plus. I dunno, with all those characteristics and probable upside, I would think he would atleast be in the top 20 prospects for the Rangers.
That’s just my opinion.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
when Tug Hulett
was in A+, he was 23, and his first time to hit as well as Lemon this year was this year in AAA Tacoma. The comparison is a stupid one.
by FirebatM3 on Sep 11, 2008 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid?
Who’s the better prospect?
Mitch Moreland?
Or Miguel Alfonzo?
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 4:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
stupid. Quite stupid in fact.
Given that all we talk about with guys like Font and Andrus are how young they are and how much potential they have, why is there a double standard when it comes to Lemon? If Lemon was a 23 year old when he put up the number that he did in A+, you’d see a lot less people excited about him. If he was a guy that was drafted in round 14, and not a guy that was drafted in the 4th round and took a 1 million dollar bonus to sign, I’m sure we’d be a lot less psyched. If he’s a 5-10 guy that never hit for much power and never projected to hit for much, yeah, there’d be a lot less excitement about him.
Right now, he’s a guy who is still 20 years old and will be 20 when he hits AA next year. Not only that, but he’s a guy that has a 9 to 13% K to BB and have room to fill out. So yeah, when all the numbers tell me he’s a good prospect, I’m going to treat him as a good prospect, regardless of how many times I saw him.
by FirebatM3 on Sep 11, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FirebatM3
Where does Lemon sit for you in your own personal top 10 or 20 or 30?
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
15 or so
above guys like Laughter, Vallejo, et all, below guys like Beltre.
by FirebatM3 on Sep 11, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lemon above Vallejo?
Wow. OK.
No need to keep going down this road.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lemon over vallejo
thats just crazy talk
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 11, 2008 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't think it's fair to say 'crazy talk'
when it comes to MINOR league prospects. A difference of opinion, but certainly not ‘crazy’…
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
prospects
i suppose i just value superior defense and speed more…. ive seen a lot of vallejo and i really just dont see how anyone would value lemon more.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 11, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think he'll hit enough at the big league level?
And do you think his defense would carry over to SS or CF?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
defense
why would i care about his defense at ss or cf? he has great d at 2b no real reason to move him from there. realistically he’ll break in with another team as part of a trade.
i think his bat will get him by in the bigs, but he wont hit for high avg or anything. at least from what ive seen.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 11, 2008 7:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because if his speed and defensive tools are really that good maybe he could play those positions too
and since we are pretty entrenched at 2b at the big level I thought it was a valid question.
Just wondering what your thoughts were on the subject of him maybe getting Nivared or reverse-Kinslered or Utilified.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, i think the teams pretty set at cf too with hamilton and borbon, i really dont see vallejo breaking in with texas anyway.
with his range and speed i’m sure he’d be capable of handling ss or cf.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 12, 2008 8:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton's not really a CF'er, imo, and that's only going to get worse as he gets further away from his physical prime
and Borbon, as much as I love to love on him in an effort to make Brian Thomas’ head explode, is far from a sure thing.
I’d actually say it’s far more likely he breaks in with us as a Figgins/Freel-type super utility guy than gets traded.
Since the issue of “you have to see the guy to fully appreciate him” has been raised in this thread, I was merely trying to get the opinion of someone who had apparently seen him more than a few times.
Sorry if I insulted and/or confused you.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 12, 2008 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not insulted (and why would i be you didnt throw out your normal reportee of insults) , guess was a little perplexed as to why you would want to move him off 2nd. I’m not educated enough in the scoutly arts to say what other positions he could adequately play really.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 12, 2008 1:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yah, okay
Whatever.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 12, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lemon v Vallejo
Vallejo’s the superior defender, Lemon the better bat.
What are the odds Vallejo raises his OBP compared to the odds Lemon improves his D?
Obviously, age is a factor.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 11, 2008 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does....
…improving defense includes improving your arm strength?
Also, I’ll take Vallejo’s 42 of 46 (91) in SB attempts over Lemon’s 12 of 20 (60).
But you’ll probably say that will improve with age too.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop being all defensive
You’re not MJH so you can cut it with the scornful sarcastic indignation, please.
I love Lil’ Lemon, but it’s not like I actually think you’re crazy or dumb for not thinking he’s one of our top 20 guys right now.
But I do genuinely wonder what makes you think that Vallejo is so much better than Lemon that even the idea that someone could consider Lemon a better prospect than Vallejo makes you laugh your haughty laugh of prospecty omnipotence. Is it really that crazy?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see
how anyone who has watched Vallejo and Lemon play could ever come to that conclusion.
And for those who are purely stats-based, is it really true that Lemon has demonstrated having the better bat, as was suggested a couple posts up?
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Better in every traditional + peripheral stat save for ISOP, and Vallejo’s ISOP collapsed after he made AA, when a lot of his HR became doubles.
by FirebatM3 on Sep 11, 2008 5:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ISOP
I stand no chance if we’re going to resort to acronyms. I believe in the numbers to an extent, but I’m more of a scouting guy.
Maybe I’m wrong about Lemon, but I just don’t see it.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ISOP
Isolated Power.
\
http://www.fantasybaseballgenerals.com/2008/06/minor-league-skills-leaders-hitter-isop.html
by FirebatM3 on Sep 11, 2008 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
Lemon was better this year in Bak despite being 21 months younger and he was better last year in Clinton despite being 21 months younger. I don’t have any more proof than that, though.
If you want to argue that Vallejo is a better hitter than Lemon, that’s fine. But you’re really being an ass today. We get that you’re riding high atop your mountain of awesome cause you’ve seen them play, but why not try to explain it to us instead of laughing it off and essentially calling those of us who question you stupid?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's just weird.
Pretty sure if everyone’s name were removed from their posts, even in this thread, I’d fall far lower on the ass/haughty-laugh-of-prospecty-omnipotence scale than at least 3 or 4 of you.
But whatever.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 11, 2008 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re:
Lemon above Vallejo?
Wow. OK.
No need to keep going down this road.
You don’t think that sort of “Wait, you actually think that!? LOL! You’re not worth talking to you if even deign to think THAT!” kind of argument is haughty?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
I’m trying to figure out why he would say ‘near-UT-ness’.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 5:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whatever
All I know is that Lemon walked more, struck out less, hit more balls harder, had a better XBH% all the while batting 1st while Vallejo saw his power completely collapse in AA once the Cal League homers became doubles or balls at the track.
The SB% is obviously worrying, but it’s not like guys don’t improve. Carlos Beltran was 11-18 as a 21 year old in A+, Ian Kinsler’s SB% was horrid too, so was Elvis Andrus during his class A days.
But whatever, sorry for upsetting you, I know you’re kind of a big deal
by FirebatM3 on Sep 11, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez.
Lemon has struck out less. Yes, in 112 fewer at-bats. If he had as many AB as Vallejo, he’d have 89 strikeouts to Vallejo’s 91.
And I don’t guess the Cal League impacted Lemon’s XBH total?
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
they actualyl didn’t, the Cal League as a league in general raises the HR totals, but there’s very little impact on XBH otherwise. If anythign, it depresses 2B and 3B totals.
And I used Vallejo’s Bakersfield Stats instead of all his stats, because it’s the purest comparison we could make
by FirebatM3 on Sep 11, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool.
You win. I have no comeback.
Too bad I’m not doing a top 20 next week, because now Vallejo is going to remain on the Lemon-less list for a good while. Embarrassing.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
XBH?
I stand no chance if we’re going to resort to acronyms. I believe in the numbers to an extent, but I’m more of a scouting guy.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by the way
…I’m hardly upset. I feel bad for dragging Adam’s board into this silly food fight.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why? It's a very reasonable argument.
These Lemon vs. Vallejo kinds of debates are what baseball boards are made for, imo.
You should feel bad for being all snarky and bringing nothing to the argument other than your sense that you’re right and we’re all crazy for being so very very wrong.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i really dont think hes been snarky at all...
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 11, 2008 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bah, sorry if I offended
Obviously I took umbrage with your tone but I didn’t mean to make you feel like you needed to take your ball and go home.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
JN
have you seen Lemon play in person? If so, did you watch him play this year in Bakersfield?
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, this is embarrassing
…since I said I was out. But that’s a valid question since I raised the point myself.
I haven’t seen Lemon since watching him play for a few days in March (writing there was “truth to the rumor that Marcus Lemon had come to camp bigger, in a good way”). He was in better shape but still had some of the limitations to his game that I worry will always be there.
You know, it’s not like I’m saying (with all my scornful sarcastic indignation) that he’s a non-prospect.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As an uberfan, that’s really all i can go by…stats. I wish i could watch these guys in person and maybe make a more informed, ‘scouting’ opinion on these guys (even though I still think stats is the best measurement)…but, as far as my opinion on these players go is just by all the stats and scouting reports i can get a hold of. And with that info, i have an opinion that Lemon is top 20 or maybe even top 15 worthy in our system. Of course i value a lot of what you or mjh or z or others have to say, but you all can’t be right 100% of the time, that would just be too boring…
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Very well said.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Mitch Moreland is the better prospect
but that’s because he far outperformed Alfonzo this year. If Vallejo or Laughter far outperformed Lemon, I’d be inclined to put them in front of Lemon too.
by FirebatM3 on Sep 11, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hulett's first Lemon-esque year was this season?
You betcha.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And...
How many times have you seen Lemon play?
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not much, other than the video from draft day...
I don’t understand why you would ask that…have you’ve seen Robbie Ross play?
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 4:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
robbie ross
video from draft day . if you’re going by that for lemon why cant someone go by that for ross
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 11, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops, this was suppose to be a reply to rentz...reposting here.
that’s the point
I’m not saying he can’t. But if his view of a player is the same as mine in that we both saw some footage from draft day, i don’t understand why he’s ask me ‘how many times’ I’ve seen him play…
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just video, like everyone else.
But my slotting of our 2nd-rounder at the back of that list is far from the hype you guys are confusingly showering on Marcus Lemon.
The funny thing is not calling Lemon a blue-chipper presumably goes against (1) my tendency (according to some) to love every kid in the system, and (2) his near-UT-ness. But I’ve seen him play during a few different stretches and just don’t understand the hype — unless this is all schtick.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
near-UT-ness.
sigh.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just video, like everyone else.
You mean scouts know more than bloggers?!
GASP!
by oc on Sep 11, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the point
I’m not saying he can’t. But if his view of a player is the same as mine in that we both saw some footage from draft day, i don’t understand why he’s ask me ‘how many times’ I’ve seen him play…
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
KLAW
Good stuff:
Paul, Dallas: Taylor Teagarden is playing very well and it seems like he will be the future catcher for the Rangers. What will the Rangers do with Salty, Laird, and Ramirez?
SportsNation Keith Law: Laird ends up traded. Saltalamacchia probably should end up at 1b, but they have Davis there, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see him return to AAA. Ramirez spends most of the year as their AAA catcher.
Jeff (Milwaukee, WI): Alway look forward to your chats Keith. I have a couple pitching prospect questions: 1) Beyond Price, who are the next projectable #1 or #2 starters who can help out their major league teams next year? 2) The fact that Boston didn’t call up Buchholz for September, does this indicate that he may not be a lock for the rotation next spring? I sure hope he makes the neccessary adjustments.
SportsNation Keith Law: Price and Buchholz for starters. Matusz at some point. I don’t think it’s out of the question that Neftali Feliz would show up next year. I think Buchholz has to “earn” a rotation spot for next year.
I think that’s everything Rangers.
Question: does it make sense in any 2009 scenario for Davis to stay at 3B and Saltalamacchia to go to 1B?
http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=22379
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 11, 2008 2:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I would rather see Salty traded...
…or catching in Arlington or OKC than playing 1B here.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
by Chad Crudup on Sep 11, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another possibility...
Chris Davis could also wind up in right field. Davis is supposedly down quite a bit of weight from last year, so if he’s going to get bigger, third base might not be a good fit. Moving Davis to right field would also make it easier to consider Jarrod Saltalamacchia at first base and Max Ramirez at DH or vice versa.
A lot will depend on the trade market of course. If the Rangers want to keep Ramirez and Taylor Teagarden in the long term, then Texas may want to wait until next season to try and get Saltalamacchia’s trade value up after having a so-so 2008 that was ended with a forearm injury. If they want Teagarden and Saltalamacchia, then Ramirez would seem to be a likely centerpiece of an upcoming off-season trade.
Republican or Democrat? You mean I have to pick just one? But what if I love violence AND hate liberty?
by YourNameHere on Sep 11, 2008 3:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll add one more point.
Davis may be forced to move to the outfield when Smoak arrives, except Davis would probably be replacing Murphy in left field by 2010 with Hamilton moving to right (assuming the David Murphy Fan Club dies down by then).
As for Salty, either Salty or Ramirez is our regular DH and backup catcher next year, with either Laird or Teagarden (probably Teagarden) getting most of the starts at catcher. It’s going to suck losing that much offense at the DH position, but the move would allow us to go young (and cheap) on offense and throw more of our money into the starting pitching market.
by cstorm15 on Sep 11, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could you live with this OF?
LF – Hamilton
CF Borbon
RF – Davis
If Davis is servicable (he has a gun) then I sure could. That would make Murphy and Cruz tradable and I think the former is thought of pretty highly around the league.
by sftxfan on Sep 11, 2008 4:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Me?
Yes, but would probably switch CD and Hamilton.
by Jamey Newberg on Sep 11, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the way
Happy 22nd Birthday Jose Vallejo.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 11, 2008 5:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Only about 21 more months until we get to say the same about Lil' Lemon :)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 11, 2008 5:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Given this animated discussion of Lemon and Vallejo
I think this previous head-to-head comparison of the two by Jason Parks might merit a revisitation for those who haven’t checked it out before: http://mvn.com/mlb-rangers/2008/07/27/lemon-vs-vallejo/
`
by Joey Matschulat on Sep 11, 2008 6:33 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lemon vs. Vallejo
I like both, but give the nod to Vallejo because of what’s being said by people who have seen him play. The Lemon love (sounds dirty) is purely stat based. You can get a lot from stats, but while Lemon might turn out to be the better hitter, I think Vallejo will be the better overall player with way better defense and speed.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 11, 2008 7:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Lemon vs. Vallejo
I find both of them fairly interesting, but I’d give the nod to Lemon, given his age and his better approach at the plate. Vallejo worries me given that he still isn’t hitting very well. I think there is a much better chance that Lemon improves his defense and baserunning than that Valllejo improves his bat enough to make the majors as anything more than a defensive sub.
Frankly, I’d rather have one of the plethora of high-ceiling arms that missed the list/ranked lower than Vallejo.
--Brian
by BCanfield on Sep 12, 2008 9:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Laughter
This is the one that I really don’t understand. A 23 year-old reliever without dominant peripherals in AA? Best case scenario, he ends up as a servicable middle reliever. There just isn’t any upside there. Even with the much higher flame-out risk, I’d much rather have Gomez, Pimental, Weiland, Castillo, Ocampo, T. Murphy, Diamond, etc. Best cases for all of them are much higher than Laughter. Laughter is what those guys become if they fail.
--Brian
by BCanfield on Sep 12, 2008 9:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Even with the much higher flame-out risk, I’d much rather have Gomez, Pimental, Weiland, Castillo, Ocampo, T. Murphy, Diamond, etc.
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 12, 2008 10:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 12, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same here
I don’t see it.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 12, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Age (or draft position for that matter) is not nearly as indicative
of ceiling for relievers as it is for starters. And why isn’t being a middle reliever considered as “upside”? There are 10-12 spots on a pitching staff and if you can fill one then you have upside…
by Goyogringo on Sep 13, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are stats?
Because his numbers don’t indicate all that much to be excited about.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 13, 2008 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This was more of a comment
on a post which undervalued 1/2 of a pitching staff (in the bigs and the minors) and less on Laughter in particular. However, if all you(them) are looking at is a 4.80 era you(them) should know better. He has made 40 appearances and 60 innings this season and it would not be too much of a stretch to suggest he wore down the last 10 days. Throw out his 37th and 39th appearances on the season and you get this line: 3.24/ 41.2/32/15/17/34 low BAA, and excellent go/a0 ratio. What’s not to like? Bet the big club looks at him in ST 09 at a legit candidate to compete for a BP spot…
by Goyogringo on Sep 13, 2008 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that 3.24 era applies to his AA starts
if you throw in his A+ #s minus those two late-season bad appearances and his era for the season drops to about 2.3 in 38 games…
The only notes I have on him is that his FB sits at 90-92 and flashes 94…
by Goyogringo on Sep 13, 2008 8:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laughter's K-rate
I have trouble getting excited about a minor league reliever with a K-rate of 7.33/9IP and a K:BB of 2. That is not to say that Laughter cannot become a decent RP in the major leagues, but I don’t see how his numbers out of the pen allow him to be ranked ahead of 30-40 other Ranger prospects.
by spurdynasty on Sep 14, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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