Red Sox want a Ranger Catcher
by AirJordan on Sep 14, 2008 3:54 PM CDT
83 comments
The Sox are intrigued by Texas backstop Jarrod Saltalamacchia, the 23-year-old switch-hitter who has been shut down with a sprained elbow but will play in the Dominican this winter. The Sox would have to trade a top pitching prospect to land him.
Reviews of his catching prowess are mixed, but one scout thinks Saltalamacchia looks very much like Varitek did at a similar age. Varitek wasn't always the accomplished defensive catcher he is now. "If [Saltalamacchia] catches every day, he's going to be fine," said an American League scout. "He's got a good arm. He's had his moments when he gets crossed up, but experience will help rectify that."
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2008/09/14/just_how_valuable_is_he/?page=3
With prior reports having them interested in Teagarden and Varitek being a shell of his former self, I think it is inevitable this winter that we hook up with them on a trade. And it's good to know that the Sox know that they would "have to trade a top pitching prospect to land him." Now obviously the big fish would be Buchholz. But let's assume he's off the table. 1. Would you do Bowden for Teagarden or Salty straight up? 2. Would you do Masterson for Teagarden or Salty straight up?
For me. 1. Do it in a heart beat.
2. No. Masterson is a dominant set up guy right now for the Sox, but will that translate to success as a starter at the Major league level? Who knows. Too risky a proposition for me to give up a starting catcher for. Now if they wanna do Bard or Masterson plus a lesser guy.... say Bryan Price or Kris Johnson? I might just do that....
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I'd only do a straignt up deal for Buchholz
If they aren’t trading us Buchholz, I’d want the Rangers to get at least one more good prospect in a deal for their catchers.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Sep 14, 2008 4:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
For me it is
Buchholz for salty or Bard, Bowden/Masterson for Salty…nothing less
"There is nothing wrong with a good baseball argument, even if it gets a little personal now and then. If someone here get[s] their feelings hurt because of a blog post they really need to get a grip."
t ball
by booyahcaveman on Sep 14, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yalp
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Sep 14, 2008 5:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd gladly do a deal to exchange underperforming prospects with Boston.
If we could get Buchholz for Salty, that is a no-brainer.
by Athos on Sep 14, 2008 4:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bowden
I think I would do a Salty for Bowden deal, but only because of the depth the Rangers have at catcher and my worries that the depth might not be put to good use, whether that be playing or trading.
by groundingout on Sep 14, 2008 5:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bowden's fairly overrated
"The question of how we came to be is a philosophical one." - 4HIM
by Chase Irwin on Sep 14, 2008 5:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How?
Looks like he puts him some really good numbers.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 14, 2008 5:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen reports that
he’s not throwing very hard and that his change isn’t great, so you’re sort of talking about a one pitch pitcher – and that curve is one that all by itself can get minor league hitters out. Don’t know if the fastball part is overplayed though.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 14, 2008 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What makes you say that?
I tend to think all ECB prospects are overrated just as a general rule, but what are your thoughts on Bowden?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 14, 2008 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Supposedly
that his stuff will translate him as a LAIE. Nothing special.
"The question of how we came to be is a philosophical one." - 4HIM
by Chase Irwin on Sep 15, 2008 5:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
Didn’t the Red Sox balk at trading Buchholz for Teixeira? Why would they consider doing Salty for Buchholz?
by hiafex on Sep 14, 2008 5:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
because
Salty would be under team control and not a rental.
by kumizi on Sep 14, 2008 6:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
For whatever reason, Buchholz seems to have fallen some in the favor of the Boston front office – much like Salty has here.
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Sep 14, 2008 6:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure how though,
the kid showed some real promise as a pitcher and threw a no no.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Sep 14, 2008 7:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the reason Buchholz has fallen out of favor
is that he got his ass handed to him just about every time he took the ball this season. 6.75 era and 1.76 whip.
I’d still love to trade for him, but your post makes it sound like the BoSox soured on him for no reason and that isn’t the case. He was an epic failure at the big league level this season.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 14, 2008 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
such was the case with many big name prospect pitchers,
rarely do they come out and make a huge impact without taking their share of lumps.
To just sour on him because of 16 bad starts is silly. You don’t build and grow talent like that in my eyes. That was always something the Rangers seemed to never understand.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Sep 14, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Link?
Buccholz is out of favor with the Boston FO?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 14, 2008 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
change FO to fans
and I think that statement is more accurate for both teams.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 14, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buc for Tex
was an interesting thought that I would have liked to see back then, but I sure wouldn’t trade Salty+Feliz+Andrus+Harrison+Jones now.
by groundingout on Sep 14, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
They wouldn’t, at least not in the near future.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 14, 2008 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We have so many good freaking catchers...
someone please bite. Bite hard!
by slimshadty12 on Sep 14, 2008 7:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Buchs a top of the rotation upside pitcher,
I think you do it regardless of what catcher they ask for.
I can’t wait till this season is over so I can start doing my 10 trades in 10 days again.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Sep 14, 2008 7:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So is it a foregone conclusion
that we are keeping Ramirez? I mean i have no problem with that at all however it just seems like all of the trade speculation has centered around teagarden, salty, and laird…
"There is nothing wrong with a good baseball argument, even if it gets a little personal now and then. If someone here get[s] their feelings hurt because of a blog post they really need to get a grip."
t ball
by booyahcaveman on Sep 14, 2008 7:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Speculation
TT seems the least likely to be traded at this point. I’m sure all are all fair game depending on the offers.
by RangersOCD on Sep 14, 2008 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you could sacrifice the power in MaxRam to acquire a pitcher,
but I really don’t think many teams view him as a catcher long term like they do with Laid, Salty and Tea.
I could see a team like Minni, Cinnci, or the Royals taking a stab at MaxRam. They need a power bat with big potential, but maybe don’t really need a catcher long term. Maybe more of a stop gap.
I mean MaxRam didn’t look terrible behind the plate and maybe a team does view him as a long term solution. But not me. He is more of the big bat, DH/1st/C maybe a little 3rd base type guy.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Sep 14, 2008 8:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Arkansas is playing a sloppy game
4 errors and Frisco up 3-0
by RangersOCD on Sep 14, 2008 8:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who else needs catchers?
Fla? KC? Cinci?
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 14, 2008 8:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say...
there are quite a few teams that should be looking for a catcher. Besides the ones you mention, I would add in the Yankees, Tigers, Blue Jays, and Brewers off the top of my head. Not really sure what they may have in the minors though.
How nice would it be to get the Yanks and BoSox in a bidding war over one of the Rangers young catchers.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 14, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Houston! -NT
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
by Caradoc on Sep 15, 2008 11:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They may view
Towles as at least a match for our guys in terms of promise, plus they have Castro coming. On the other hand, they are in perpetual win immediately mode, so they may not want to go into another season banking on Towles. On the other hand, what in the world would they give us?
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 16, 2008 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems almost inevitable.
Its a good matchup.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Sep 14, 2008 8:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Florida
has a better selection of pitching, and they also some payroll motivation to deal some of their arb-eligible ML pitching.
The Marlins are our best match to trade catching for pitching IMO.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 15, 2008 8:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
man i forgot to pay attention to the games today...
too bad oklahoma lost.
holland dominant for frisco against though, sweet.
the preceding post is not nearly as negative or insulting as you think it is
by DSheppard on Sep 14, 2008 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dutch...
6 2 0 0 1 6 0. Beast.
I assume Feliz will go in game 5. I think that gives Frisco a very good shot at the title. Appropriate considering all the prospects the Rangers have had play there this season.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 14, 2008 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holland
by the all star break. book it.
by clark on Sep 14, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe but...
He looks very dominate right now but I want to see how he handles AAA hitters. In a perfect world Dutch and Happy Happy continue to progress together and arrive around the same time.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 14, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because half our rotation will be on the disabled list by then.
by oc on Sep 15, 2008 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only half?
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 15, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Zack Greinke and Scott Feldman will be healthy.
by oc on Sep 15, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Feldman is genuinely terrible at baseball
As in, like, he’s horrible.
He had a nice little run for a while soft tossing up a storm with his new mechanics, but the reality is he’s terrible. If he gets significant innings for us next year, we’re proper f——-d.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 16, 2008 2:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"The question of how we came to be is a philosophical one." - 4HIM
by Chase Irwin on Sep 16, 2008 2:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"The question of how we came to be is a philosophical one." - 4HIM
by Chase Irwin on Sep 16, 2008 10:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
maybe you think that he can’t sustain a 5.27 ERA, but he’s really been pretty unlucky, and if you told me that I could lock down a 5.27 ERA for the #5 spot in the rotation next season, I’d take it in a heartbeat.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 16, 2008 11:19 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the 100th time
I’m surprised at how people overestimate what’s acceptable from the 4th and 5th spots. And from a first year starter who has thrown way too many innings supported by a terribly inconsistent bullpen.
Feldman seems like some sort of lightning rod for this staff.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 16, 2008 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been unlucky?
All the luck indicators I look for say he licks dirty orphan butt at baseball. He has awful K and BB ratio’s, a terrible FIP (which he’s outperformed, fwiw) and tRA says he’s awful.
What stats are you looking at that say he’s been unlucky?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 16, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that you can point to
several really bad or unfortunate defensive plays absolutely killed him. He’s had two fly balls lost in the sun/roof that cost him five combined earned runs. He’s had really bad defense behind him, hijinx that cost him a handful more earned runs, and the guy has had 13 unearned runs that have hurt his secondary numbers. He’s also been clearly out of gas on numerous occasions and has been left in, and you’ve seen the numbers for that. His numbers have dipped of late, for reasons that t ball outlined.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 16, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
I still think he’s bad at baseball and has little or no shot at ever being a league average or even borderline-league average starting pitcher and I believe the numbers bear that out.
Here’s hoping you’re right though. cause Worsh seems to love him to the point where he seems like a mortal lock to break camp as a rotationeer out of ST next year.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 16, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many
- starters are league average?
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 16, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure
how that happened, but that was supposed to be “#5 starters”
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 16, 2008 3:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much sense does it make to use a guy who's below average and doesn't have the raw stuff to get much better as one of your starters
when you’re rebuilding and could be giving those innings to someone with a chance of becoming a good pitcher in the future?
Or do you see something in Feldman that I’m missing?
I’m know I tend to be hard on guys, but I didn’t think this was an outrageous sentimony.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 16, 2008 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that you tend to be hard on guys. You love some players with very mediocre potential. :)
I’m curious who these people are with so much more potential than Feldman. If they can string together five of them, great.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 17, 2008 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think
Feldman can be a #5? Sheesh, he’s better than a lot of crap they’ve had to put out there the last couple years in the #4 or #5 spots. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to think he can put up a low 5’s ERA and hold down the #5 spot competently. That’s all you can expect out of a #5 starter.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 16, 2008 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're rebuilding, or at least building toward something, right?
So why waste time with someone who, as a best case scenario, you hope can put up an ERA in the low 5’s? If you want to keep him around as a spot starter or just to chew up innings while we wait for the great wave of pitching prospects to arrive or whatever, that’s fine. But personally I’d rather give those innings to someone like Dusty Tits or Hurley or Harrison or Hunter or, you know, anyone with a chance to be at least a LAIE, which I just don’t see with Feldman.
Maybe I’m being too hard on the guy, but when I watch him pitch I don’t see it and when I look at the stats I really freaking don’t see it. Maybe y’all are seeing something in him that makes you think he’ll get better, but he strikes me as a soft tosser who’ll only get worse as the league catches up to him.
Peep this list. Sort it by FIP twice to see the worst. Only 6 guys have a worse FIP than he does. And those guys are some true Sucky McSucksters.
(It’s also depressing to see Padzilla over 5, although that’s balanced out a little by having Adam Eaton and RA Dickey in there, cause it’s funny to see them sucking for someone else now. Also of note is Ponson there at 4.98. He’s just not very good.)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 16, 2008 11:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Z says above
I don’t see the Rangers as having a bunch of guys who are clearly ahead of him, or at least ready to be ahead of him. He was the steadiest guy in the rotation for a while, and his innings total being so high mitigates the value of your link. He was overexposed in the first year as a starter.
And anyway, the real role for him is not to be automatically penciled in a certain slot. That may depend on who they sign or trade for this winter. But he is most certainly in that sizable group of guys they should be considering for the back of the rotation in the spring. How many starters did they use this year? Hopefully they won’t have as many injuries next year, but you have to have depth and Feldman as your 5th guy would be far from the worst in baseball. The Rangers simply do not have many guys that I am confident predicting will do better than him.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 17, 2008 9:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dutch only 71 pitches.
Dutch is op brand!
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Sep 14, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He struggled out of the gate
but settled down nicely
by RangersOCD on Sep 14, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know if anyone else has seen this site yet
But if we do wind up dealing with the BoSox, this place could come in mighty handy:
http://www.soxprospects.com/index.html
Absolutely phenomonal site – it’s got quick breakdowns of most of the BoSox prospects, including Buchholz of course, along with Masterson and Bowden.
We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.
by lonestarJon on Sep 15, 2008 12:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think someone like Jamey or
someone with in depth information about our prospects should start a site like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXWLfIgc0nA
by mchang4 on Sep 15, 2008 1:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only thing to be weary of...
that site has the ability to make a lot of players sound great. but yes, it does include decent scouting reports and career minor league stats, so it is convenient.
by clark on Sep 15, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their farm really doesn't stack up close to ours!
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Sep 15, 2008 8:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure their fans are crying themselves to sleep everynight
on their World Series Championship commemorative blanket/comforter/pillow case set.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 16, 2008 2:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something that stands out to me
In Michael Bowden’s scouting report:
His mechanics are somewhat unconventional in that his delivery is quite compact and he doesn’t pull back with a lot of torque. Relies more on arm strength than leverage. But he’s able to maintain consistent arm action throughout his outings, so the Sox haven’t’ messed with it.
Maybe I’m wrong, but that absolutely screams “future arm injury” to me – Brandon McCarthy anyone?
by JimBonnick84 on Sep 15, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those guys are rather renowned for the overhype
but yeah, the forums tend to have decent info on them
by laxtonto on Sep 15, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like how the talk around here
has gone from “there is no way we get Buchholz” to “Buchholz for Salty, straight up”
I mean, I’ve thought all along that if we give them Salty and a lesser prospect, Kiker maybe, we could get that deal done. the reality is, we should expect a trade like this for one of our catchers, but realize that it might not happen
"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "
by Walter Sobchak on Sep 15, 2008 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Keep thinking it, Walt!
They are not dealing Buccholz.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 15, 2008 8:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
pitching is their strength, why wouldn't they trade him.
He is just as unproven as Salty and they need a future catcher to replace Tek. Makes sense to me at least.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Sep 15, 2008 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buccholz
When uproven for you means a no-hitter on the ML level at 23, and 417 strikeouts in 344.1 MiL innings, it’s better than Saltalamacchia’s unproven.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 15, 2008 9:39 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yep
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
by Brett Perryman on Sep 15, 2008 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on Sep 15, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone remember Bud Smith...
Or Jose Jiminez? Throwing a no-hitter as a rookie is no guarantee of future success.
I propose a 5-year moratorium on trading any young Ranger pitchers who throw over 90 mph.
by Ajax68 on Sep 15, 2008 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok...
but it doesn’t hurt either.
Lester did it last year and look at what he is doing now.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 15, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I tend to think that Salty for Buchholz straight up is a pipe dream.
by FuturePants on Sep 15, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would want JD to talk to Bos and Cincy
and be like hey guys, I like both Bowden and Bailey the same and I need a little bit more from either team to get a deal done.
I would like to get Bowden and Hsuan Lin for Salty.
Salty is another guy that can be a Beltre (Lin is from Taiwan)
Info on Lin
Scouting Report: Spectacularly athletic centerfielder likely would have been a supplemental first round pick in the 2007 draft had he been eligible. Incredible speed with a cannon arm. Quick, strong wrists. Contact rates are below average. Decent gap power, hits well to all fields. He’s struggled with off-speed pitches early on. Exceptional glove and range in CF, and his arm is both very strong and accurate. One teammate commented positively on Lin’s range, stating that it looks like Lin is “gliding on roller skates” in the outfield. The Red Sox outbid several teams for Lin’s services. Also, at least one team significantly outbid Boston, but Lin preferred to play for the Red Sox organization.
MLB Comparison: BJ Upton
by Coolbean04 on Sep 15, 2008 10:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops
I meant Lin is another guy that can be a Beltre (high potential).
by Coolbean04 on Sep 15, 2008 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clay
there’s been talk that the Red Sox messed with his mechanics in order to improve FB control, and it backfired. Is that going to be a long-term issue?
by FirebatM3 on Sep 15, 2008 6:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Bad comp
McCarthy has never had the FB velocity that Bucholtz has.
Avg. Fastball Velocity from FanGraphs
McCarthy
2005 61.1% (90.3)
2006 63.4% (90.8)
2007 65.9% (88.9)
2008 65.3% (89.0)
Clay Buchholz
2007 52.9% (91.1)
2008 47.4% (92.6)
Buchholz’s slowest season is faster than any of McCarthy’s seasons, including his max when he was pitching from the pen. McCarthy’s velocity is deceptive because of his height and release point.
by laxtonto on Sep 15, 2008 7:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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