Off-Season Bargain Hunting (Part 1)
2008 All-Star Game participants Dan Uggla, Josh Hamilton, Joakim Soria, Justin Duchscherer, George Sherrill, Dioner Navarro, Carlos Quentin, Ryan Dempster, and Ryan Ludwick were all acquired via the Rule 5 draft, minor trades, or as minor league free-agents prior to becoming significant contributors to their respective teams. Acquiring relatively inexpensive talent without giving up bonafide prospects can be the difference between contending and pretending for teams like the Rangers that don’t have the budget to bring in big name free agents on a yearly basis.
Acquiring talented but unappreciated/under-valued players during the off-season typically requires that a team have three things:
(1) space on their 40-man roster,
(2) adequate talent in their farm system to satisfy the needs of another team, and
(3) a GM who is anxious to improve the talent-level of his 40-man roster.
In my opinion, the Rangers should satisfy these three criteria in the upcoming months.
Space on the 40-Man Roster
Although the talent level for the Rangers is higher now than at any time since the late 90’s, there is clearly room to improve the back end of the 40 man roster. As things currently stand, the Rangers will end the 2008 season with 45 players on their 40 man roster. Wright, Bradley, Jennings, and Vasquez will be free agents at the end of the season and will come off the 40 until they sign a major league contract with the Rangers or agree to salary arbitration. In my opinion, there are eight players currently on the 40-man roster who are candidates to be cut or designated for assignment. The players in the order that I think they should be waived are:
(1) Gordon – Last on, first off. The 30 yo, recently converted pitcher is a good story but not worthy of a spot on the Ranger’s off-season 40 man roster.
(2) Catalanotto – During the last two months, Cat has started fewer than two games per week. The 2009 Rangers might be slightly better with Cat on their bench, but for the long-term, the Rangers would benefit from giving Cat’s ABs to a younger player. Ideal case would be a trade to a team willing to take on his salary.
(3) White – A nice AAA season (54 IP, 3.54 ERA, 10.6K/9IP, 1.38 WHIP) has been cancelled out by a miserable run in the Rangers bullpen (5 App, 1.2 IP, 21.60 ERA).
(4) Rheinecker – A LOOGY who just lost a season due to injury.
(5) Metcalf – A good glove/light bat (253/300/370/670) tag works for SS but not 3B.
(6) Littleton – The right-hander did nothing in 2008 (4.01 ERA, 9K/9IP, 1.37 WHIP) to distinguish himself from ~100 other AAA relievers.
(7) Loe – Despite a good run in the major league bullpen (3.14 ERA in 28.2 innings), the right-hander’s mediocre AAA season (5.59 ERA) and lack of prolonged major league success make him expendable.
(8) Murray – An oft-injured pitcher with good, but not great stuff
Waiving Cat, White, and Gordon (I think) would result in the players becoming free agents. The other five players would likely pass through waivers unclaimed, allowing the Rangers to designate them for assignment. Re-signing Milton Bradley and assigning Mayberry, Vallejo, and Poveda to the 40 would bring the Rangers roster to 37. That leaves space for three new players on the Rangers 40 man roster. If additional space is needed, then Mathis, Gabbard, and Arias could likely be traded in a deal or two for prospects who are not eligible for thr Rule 5 draft. There has been much made of potential off-season trades of a catcher and an outfielder, but I think it likely that the return in such a trade would include a major league player, thus there would be not net change in the 40-man roster.
Rangers Trade Candidates
Although the Rule 5 draft and the pool of minor league free agents can be a nice source of “free” minor league talent, acquiring players placed on waivers or players that are specifically targeted by a team typically requires at least a minor trade. The availability and quality of the player that is targeted will naturally dictate if and whom the Rangers would have to trade. In my opinion, the list of expendable players in the Rangers organization includes:
Marcus Lemon – Compelling SS/2B bat is behind Andrus, Duran, Arias, and Vallejo on the Rangers prospect list.
Kennil Gomez – Great 2008 numbers, but he is not among the Rangers Top10 pitching prospects.
Joaquin Arias – Near-ready prospect is likely no higher than third on the list of SS and utility infielders for the Rangers.
John Mayberry – Power-hitting prospect is likely no higher than fifth on the Rangers COF depth chart behind Hamilton, Byrd, Murphy, Cruz, and Boggs.
Andrew Laughter – Near-ready bullpen arm
Brennan Garr – Near-ready bullpen arm
Evan Reed – Good arm, but well down Rangers prospect list
Renny Osuna – see Lemon
Michael Schlact – Likely no closer than 10th in line for a shot at the Rangers starting rotation.
Ben Harrison – Behind Mayberry and at least 5 others for shot at COF spot.
Ian Gac – Breakout 2008 but no higher than 3 on the Rangers list of 1B prospects
Steve Murphy – Fringe, but near-ready outfielder
Zach Phillips – See Evan Reed
The list is intended to provide a sense of the type of players that the Rangers could use to compensate another team without dipping into what are considered to be the team’s most talented major and minor league players. Depending on whether a trade happens before or after the Rule 5 draft, Arias, Mayberry, Harrison, and Gac might need to be added to an opposing team’s 40 man roster. Players that need not be added to the 40 man roster would likely be considered more valuable to another team.
Players to Target
The pool of players that I used for the selection process was restricted to pitchers whose off-season trade value is likely to be less than a Top20 prospect from the Rangers. To further reduce the number of candidates, I chose to restrict the analysis to pitchers under the age of 28 whom the Rangers would control for at least 3 years. In my opinion, the three best places to look for the kind of low-risk, high-reward pitchers that the Rangers should target are: (1) bullpens, (2) prospect scrap heaps, and (3) the waiver wire. The top candidates selected from the bullpens of other teams are presented below. A follow-up post will capture pitchers from the latter two categories.
Miscast Relievers (Examples – Jeremy Guthrie, Derek Lowe, Braden Looper, Jonathan Sanchez, Todd Wellemeyer)
To select pitchers in this category, I reviewed the MLB stats of pitchers who averaged more than an inning per appearance in 2008 while pitching primarily out of the bullpen and who were used primarily as starters when they were in the minor leagues. These criteria were used to identify players who are serving as long relievers/spot starters at the major league level but who were developed as starting pitchers. The following pitchers were selected based on their minor and major league strikeout and walk rates, WHIPs, and ERAs.
Jared Burton (CIN) – 27 yo RHP – Burton was claimed in the Rule 5 draft prior to the 2007 season. As shown in his stats, Burton’s transition from the minor to the major leagues has gone smoothly:
Majors - 3.59 ERA, 8.6 K/9IP, 3.39 BB/9IP, 1.27 WHIP
Minors – 2.36 ERA, 8.47 K/9IP, 3.84 BB/9IP, 1.13 WHIP
Armed with a mid-90’s fastball, change-up, and slider, Burton has proven to be an effective middle-reliever for the Reds. Burton was a starter in college and his first two years in the minors, but has been used primarily as a reliever since 2005. With fewer than two years of service time and a three-pitch arsenal, it might behoove a team like the Rangers to see if Burton could return to being a starter.
Ramon Ramirez (KC) – 26 yo RHP – Traded twice in the last three years, Ramirez has appeared in 48 games in 2008 posting a 2.90 ERA and 1.19 WHIP. In 134 innings spanning three major league seasons, Ramirez has posted a 3.88 ERA, 1.27 WHIP, 8.7K/9, and 3.5BB/9. Ramirez’ ML career has been restricted to the bullpen, but most of his 553 minor league innings came as a starter where he produced peripherals that were consistent with his major league performance (4.25 ERA, 9.1K/9IP, 3.2BB/9IP, 1.31 WHIP). Ramirez supposedly has a low 90’s fastball, power curve, and splitter that would likely support a return to a starting role.
Carlos Villanueva (MIL) – 26 yo LHP – Since being promoted to the big league club in 2007, Villanueva has used three average pitches and a deceptive delivery to produce above average numbers as a swing man out of the bullpen.
Majors – 247 IP, 4.14 ERA, 3.09 BB/9IP, 7.23 K/9IP. 1.28 WHIP
Minors – 464 IP, 3.27 ERA, 2.43 BB/9IP, 8.92 K/9IP, 1.10 WHIP
Villanueva was a starter in the minor leagues and with only two years of major league service time, it is possible that he could become a relatively long-term solution to a team seeking an effective and relatively inexpensive left-handed starter.
Matt Albers (BAL) – 25 yo RHP – Traded from the Astros to the Orioles prior to the 2008 season, Albers has appeared in 28 games for Baltimore. In 49 innings, he has produced a 3.49 ERA, 1.33 WHIP, and ~5K/9IP that is a step above his career numbers (5.20 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, and ~6K/9IP in parts of 3 major league seasons). Albers’ minor league resume includes 601 IP, 3.60 ERA, 1.36 WHIP, >9K/9IP, and >2:1 K:BB as a starter. Albers has an excellent curve that he combines with a low 90’s fastball.
Edwar Ramirez (NYY) – 27 yo RHP – The Yankees reliever has tossed 59.1 IP in his major league career, racking up 75 K’s (11.4/9IP) against 29 BB’s while posting a 4.40 ERA and 1.25 WHIP. His 2.35 ERA and 0.94 WHIP in 2008 speak to improvements that he made between 2007 and 2008. Ramirez was a minor league starter until he was hurt and missed most of the 2004 and 2005 seasons. His minor league career includes 190 IP, ~12K/9IP, <3BB/9IP, 2.83 ERA, and 1.1 WHIP. As with the players listed above, if Ramirez failed as a starter, then he could return to the bullpen where he has proven to be a productive pitcher.
Anthony Reyes (CLE) – 26 yo RHP – Traded to the Indians at mid-season after disappointing the Cardinals, Reyes has started 6 games, pitched 34.1 innings, and posted a 1.93 ERA, 3.9K/9IP, and 1.25 WHIP. During parts of 4 major league seasons, Reyes has bounced between the rotation and bullpen, throwing 220.2 innings with a 5.38 ERA, 6.9K/9IP, and 1.35 WHIP. Pitching mostly in AAA, his minor league numbers have been much more respectable (353.2IP, 3.31 ERA, 8.8K/9IP, 1.11 WHIP). Reyes four pitch repertoire (mid-90s four-seamer, low-90s two-seamer, slider, change-up) appear perfectly suited for a starting role.
Note - Some teams transition pitching prospects into their starting rotations following a 1-2 year apprenticeship in the bullpen. Prying these young pitchers away from their respective teams can be an extraordinary challenge. Other pitchers are simply viewed as bullpen arms without any real value as starters. Unfortunately, I am unable to distinguish the two and thus it is possible that some of the players in the above list might be deemed untouchable by their parent club.
A second FanPost will follow with descriptions of pitchers in the following two categories:
Big Talent/Poor Results
Casualties of the 40-Man Roster
19 recs |
64
comments
Comments
Don't even have to read it
Auto Rec.
"Mr. Hicks, you watch, I'm going to be a leader on this team." Kinsler
by sprite on Sep 17, 2008 12:10 AM CDT 0 recs
Sorry, OC
There were complaints about the length of my FanPosts. This little project grew to the point that I felt really bad to post it all at once. I hope to get the second part up within a day or two.
by spurdynasty on
Sep 17, 2008 12:32 AM CDT
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No problem here
but if you are concerned about it, you may want to have a link to a second page instead of all the text showing up on the fanpost page. Just a thought.
by RangersOCD on
Sep 17, 2008 12:38 AM CDT
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That's a jim dandy idea
Is there a straight-forward way to do that?
by spurdynasty on
Sep 17, 2008 12:42 AM CDT
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I really have no idea how to do that
But I’m sure someone else would be willing to share…
by RangersOCD on
Sep 17, 2008 12:44 AM CDT
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Perhaps you should
start your own blog a la Joey Matschulat. I’d hit it. Seems like you have too much info and insight to share and might be a little stifled posting within the confines of someone else’s blog.
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on
Sep 17, 2008 12:43 AM CDT
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I actually like to see it here
We get enough of posts with recaps of other site’s info. Not that there’s anything wrong with those, but well thought out original posts are great too.
by RangersOCD on
Sep 17, 2008 12:46 AM CDT
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Thanks, but I'll leave the daily blogging to the pros
I’ve enjoyed sharing the handful of Rangers-related research projects I’ve been working on with the LSB community. The responses have been great and have helped shape my thinking. The cost of accommodating the requests of others is significantly less than the stress of maintaining a blog.
by spurdynasty on
Sep 17, 2008 12:50 AM CDT
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Who was complaining about...
the legnth of your fanposts? Just disregard them if they were. Good stuff.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on
Sep 17, 2008 12:45 AM CDT
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I'm complaining about the length of these fanposts.
Most of this is just stating the obvious.
by oc on
Sep 17, 2008 12:51 AM CDT
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A tad pissy tonight OC?
I don’t think it’s all obvious. I don’t keep track of middle relievers on other teams for one.
If you think it’s too long then just don’t read it. Lighten up dude.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on
Sep 17, 2008 12:56 AM CDT
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The Space On The 40-Man Roster and Rangers Trade Candidates segments are topics that have been discussed on this site ad-nauseum.
If this is a fanpost about who we should be targeting this offseason, then talk about who we should be targeting this offseason.
Why we need an essay on who’s Rule 5 expendable or why Frank Catalonotto should no longer have a spot on the 40-Man is beyond me.
The substance and frequency of spurdynasty’s fanposts are aggravating.
If you’re mission is to layout the entire fucking groundwork for this offseason, start your own blog.
by oc on
Sep 17, 2008 1:46 AM CDT
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Some legitimate complaints
but it doesn’t hurt to go over certain issues again.
Actually, a complaint I’d have is that the 40-Man Part doesn’t even talk about potential prospects that will need to go on the 40 or risk being taken. But as you said, it’s been examined before.
I’d agree that, perhaps, it would make more sense to focus on topics not yet to be discussed such as potential trade targets.
OTOH, it is helpful to put all the thoughts out there in the open as a whole. So, I welcome spurdynasty’s posts even if they do tend to be long-winded and go over material discussed before.
It usually never hurts to review information!
R
by Requiem on
Sep 17, 2008 3:53 AM CDT
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They aren't brilliant fanposts
about smoking a bowl, eating a sandwich, taking a dump or ranking the posters I guess.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Sep 17, 2008 7:03 AM CDT
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Heh!
oc deserves that, with his ’tude lately.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
"If you ain't got no money, ain't nobody calls you honey," Bo Diddley
by Rodney on
Sep 17, 2008 10:35 AM CDT
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Let's see
the only one I’d really like the Rangers to trade for is Ramon Ramirez.
Reyes and Villanueva have already been given plenty of chances.
Burton intrigues me but mostly because I’ve never seen him pitch.
E. Ramirez and Albers. I’m not impressed by either.
Where’s Nick Massett? j/k
by chrisR on Sep 17, 2008 12:30 AM CDT 0 recs
i hear massett
now has 33 plus pitches!
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on
Sep 17, 2008 8:45 AM CDT
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Well
- If KC sticks Soria in the rotation, Ramirez is their top candidate for the closer job with R. Tejeda probably a close 2nd (gulp).
- Ramirez is too valuable to the Yanks in the pen to be moved, especially once Joba goes back into the rotation.
- Sowers and Carmona were huge disappointments this year so even with Westbrook healthy and back in the rotation, CLE will need Reyes to fill the 5th-spot.
- Cordero is an implosion waiting to happen and Burton is CIN’s leading candidate to supplant him at closer. Burton is their top setup guy and he’s young and cheap so can’t see them moving him.
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on Sep 17, 2008 12:31 AM CDT 0 recs
Oh yeah, rec'd :0).
"Some mornings it just doesn't seem worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."
- Emo Phillips
by Rangerchick on
Sep 17, 2008 12:36 AM CDT
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Thanks for the info
I was selecting players based on current and historical stats. My estimates of value were based primarily on how they had arrived at their current teams and what role they seemed to be filling in their team’s bullpen. Hopefully, the next two categories will produce some more readily available pitchers.
by spurdynasty on
Sep 17, 2008 12:36 AM CDT
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Rec worthy
I don’t see them cutting Cat though. He’ll spare us to death on the bench again next season.
by RangersOCD on Sep 17, 2008 12:34 AM CDT 0 recs
Cat is a sunk cost
Hopefully the members of the Rangers’ front office who value player development will prevail and do whatever is necessary to free Cat’s spot on the 40- and 25-man rosters.
by spurdynasty on
Sep 17, 2008 12:40 AM CDT
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Cat is a 60 hitter
on the tools list. Ask Adam :)
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Sep 17, 2008 7:04 AM CDT
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Cat
I think he’s 60 on the moustache list?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Sep 17, 2008 12:16 PM CDT
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Cat is a trade candidate
I would not just waive him until and unless you get absolutely nothing offered for him. If you can get even a low level prospect for him you’ve gotten something in return and cleared a spot. I’d even eat salary to ensure some actual talent coming this way.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on
Sep 17, 2008 9:23 AM CDT
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The thought
that you will get anything for a platoon PH/DH who has a 750 OPS just boggles my mind. I know I heard Adam repeat that foolishness earlier in the year, but I don’t think even he buys that now.
Cat’s contract for next year is essentially $6 million ($4M + $2M buyout for ‘10) according to ( http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/texas-rangers.html ), and he just doesn’t bring anything to the table. Their will be a washed up slugger available as an NRI who will be able to bring as much to the table as Cat. I know folks were pelting Sosa with Rocks and Garbage last year, but even he had a 779 OPS.
Catalanotto can’t Throw, can’t field, can’t run, can’t hit for power, and now, in his declining years, really can’t hit for average anymore, and oh yeah, what little hitting he can do, is from the side of the plate that you are already stacked.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Sep 17, 2008 9:48 AM CDT
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Well, fine
but that doesn’t mean you don’t try. I would not just release him. I fear he’ll be clogging up a roster spot next year in some failed attempt to see if can somehow regain value. I don’t think he can to any serious degree, and I’d say do everything you can to deal him this offseason.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on
Sep 17, 2008 12:02 PM CDT
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I can't imagine
anyone will take the contract off your hand, without giving you a bad contract in return.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Sep 17, 2008 12:51 PM CDT
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Well if you pay somebody 2 or 3 million to take it
It might get somebody to bite and it’d save us a chunk of cash over just straight up cutting his ass.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Sep 17, 2008 4:15 PM CDT
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I really can't see it
why would anyone even pay $2 million for a guy who will likely be worse next year than a handful of NRIs?
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Sep 17, 2008 4:31 PM CDT
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I dunno
Cause some GM’s make dumb moves?
I’m just hoping here.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on
Sep 17, 2008 4:47 PM CDT
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Except
Boy Blunder works here.
Sorry, had to beat Josey to it.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Sep 17, 2008 8:30 PM CDT
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If JD can't deal him...
he should do Cat a favor and cut him. Cat hasn’t bitched at all about everything the last couple months. He has handled everything like a pro. He deserves to go somewhere to get a chance to play. Even if that means the NL to pinch hit for the pitcher once a night.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on
Sep 17, 2008 12:43 AM CDT
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Cat
Unless a team will take his contract in its entirety what does it matter if he is the 25th man on the end of the bench? If we release him we still owe him the money so its not like that would free up 4 million to sign others. And we aren’t going to have 25 all stars on the team so one guy at the end of the bench isn’t going to cripple us. He can come off the bench and pinch hit with decent results. He is somewhat versatile in the fact he can play 1B or LF. And the argument that he is blocking a younger player is crap. The 25th man on the roster does not block anybody. If a young player is up here they should be playing regularly. The 25th man on the bench isn’t holding that back. That person doesn’t play much as it is. I don’t want to have a young player as my 25th man.
Is his contract a bad one…yes absolutely. But getting rid of him really does us no good unless another team wants to take his contract also. Otherwise might as well keep him.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Sep 17, 2008 3:31 PM CDT
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If they don't resign bradley or blalock
then he could be a lot more valuable next yr. However, If it is clear that he won’t get any playing time again next year, then maybe the rangers can trade him, agree to pay all 6 million owed and demand a good prospect in exchange. They are going to lose money no matter how it plays out. At least this way they might get a legit prospect rather than just salary relief, an extra roster spot and a non-prospect warm-body….
by Goyogringo on
Sep 18, 2008 10:06 AM CDT
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Cat, Blalock, Board Game...
At this point I think it would be best if none of the 3 were on the team next year. They aren’t going to be part of this teams future so it might be best to cut ties with them now and let guys like MaxRam and others get those AB’s.
Damn, I just wish Board Game could stay healthy. He is perfect for the middle of this lineup.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on
Sep 18, 2008 10:20 AM CDT
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Travis Metcalf...
Travis Metcalf has been making a case for himself recently. Metcalf was hitting incredibly well in Spring Training (.412/.444/.824) until he injured his hamstring, requiring surgery. He really struggled initially after returning from the DL, but improvements have been spotted:
May (OKC) .227/.277/.295/.572 (44 at-bats)
June (OKC): .234/.265/.362/.627 (94 at-bats)
July (OKC): .270/.333/.371/.704 (89 at-bats)
August (OKC): .286/.306/.486/.792 (35 at-bats)
August (Texas): .273/.314/.667/.981 (33 at-bats)
And for full disclosure, he was hitless in his one May and eight June at-bats for the Big League team. It’ll be interesting to see how the Rangers view Chris Davis’s future as a third baseman, as well as their plans regarding Hank Blalock (i.e. – if Blalock’s option is picked up, will the Rangers support his strength training plan to facilitate a return to playing the hot corner?).
Republican or Democrat? You mean I have to pick just one? But what if I love violence AND hate liberty?
by YourNameHere on Sep 17, 2008 1:40 AM CDT 0 recs
Hmmmm
Improvements, maybe in power, but OBP has been pretty atrocious.
Not only that, but they’re from a smaller sample size.
It’s looking more and more like Metcalf will not be a good major league starter for a playoff team….
.269/.351/.503 in A- (21)
.291/.358/.513 in A+ (22)
.221/.298/.325 in AA (23)
.280/.345/.475 in AA (24)
.255/.307/.435 in MLB (24)
.253/.300/.370 in AAA (25)
Not sure what happened to his plate discipline….
R
by Requiem on
Sep 17, 2008 3:59 AM CDT
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Count me among those
who think the rangers would be just fine with metcalf as a starting 3b for next yr. There arent many positions that can be upgraded defensively on the roster and 3b is one of them. ON this roster with a CF and a 2b who are extraordinarily productive (and catchers who have above ave #s or potential) you don’t have to have a 3b who is a masher. If he performs like he did last yr when Blalock got injured, and during spring training this yr before he himself got injured, having ave to below ave offensive stats will not cripple the offense. I think the rangers have seen enough of Davis to determine whether he can be a starting 3b. If they are uncertain then they shouldn’t plan on dragging out the position change next yr, keep him at first and play metcalf at third until Young makes that transition to 3b in 2010 (if he does).
by Goyogringo on
Sep 18, 2008 9:25 AM CDT
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Metcalf
I think they should aim higher.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on
Sep 18, 2008 9:32 AM CDT
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I think so too
and maybe they get a legit 3b prospect – maybe a guy who tasted the majors this year – in a trade over the winter perhaps as part of a package. I think they should be aggressive during the winter to upgrade wherever they can, and 3b would be one of those positions. I also think the rangers should upgrade for now and not think about what they might do with smoak or young in 2010…
by Goyogringo on
Sep 18, 2008 9:44 AM CDT
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I strongly disagree
that not many positions on this club can be upgraded defensively. Outside of C, and maybe COF, upgrading defensively is easy at all positions. If you had a good defensive CF, you could slide Hamilton to COF, and that would be a good upgrade. If Kinsler’s bat continues to develop, you could get a good defensive 2B, and move him to the OF, like Soriano.
Personally, while I’m fine with Metcalf as bench depth, I’d just as soon pick up a good glove at SS, and start Young’s transition to 3B. Moving SS whose defensive skills are slipping, but still have strong arms is a time honored tradition. If Cal Freaking Ripken can move to 3B, I really don’t see any reason why MY can’t be pushed over.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Sep 18, 2008 9:34 AM CDT
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no your right
but I don’t think it makes sense to upgrade those spots next year, what it would cost the rangers in trade and looking at the fact that Borbon and Andrus will be in AAA next yr. I was assuming that the rangers would keep young and hamilton at ss and cf next yr, and I think that is the likely scenario. I don’t think those position upgrades will happen until 2010- you can only do so much if your prospects aren’t ready. You’ll have your updrades once andrus and borbon are ready to start in 2010. I think the ranger’s focus should be on trading for pitching during the break and that will cost a lot perhpas even andrus borbon and / or smoak. I think the rangers would be really reluctant to trade andrus or borbon however because they meet the big club’s needs so well. There is always the possiblity that both those guys win spots in spring training next year as well…
by Goyogringo on
Sep 18, 2008 9:57 AM CDT
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I think
you can probably get a cheap one year guy, like Everett or Izturis next year. If Andrus or Borbon is ready, fine, If they aren’t ready til 2011, which isn’t unlikely, at least you’ve started the process.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on
Sep 18, 2008 10:20 AM CDT
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of the eight men listed
on the 40 man roster section, I would be very uneasy with just giving any of the bottom four away. Metcalf plays stellar defense and hits with enough power that he has legitimate major league value. He had a great spring and looked poised to have a break out year until an injury derailed it. I would suspect that a team like the Twins, who actually put a premium on defense, would give up something of value (maybe Boof?) for him. AJ Murray could possibly slip through because of the injuries, but he has shown the ability to succeed in the majors when he is healthy, and HE IS A LEFTY who can START. That alone is worth keeping him around. Loe and Littleton I am torn on because, for whatever reason, I just like them. Littleton, when on, is a strikeout/groundout reliever. We have not seen nearly enough of him at the big league level to evaluate, but I would imagine a team would see value in him as an addition to a larger deal. Loe, I think, sticks because of his strong showing this year in the majors. He is obviously comfortable with Hawkins and I think he is growing more comfortable in his bullpen role.
by clark on Sep 17, 2008 10:21 AM CDT 0 recs
Churning the bottom of the 40
I am not advocating that JD waive the 8 players listed simply to create space on the 40 man roster. However, I would gladly risk losing any of the Rangers players listed by waiving them to make space if one of the pitchers on the “Miscast Relievers” list was available in trade because I believe that each of them have a greater likelhood of being successful major leaguers than Murray, Loe, Littleton, etc.
by spurdynasty on
Sep 17, 2008 10:46 AM CDT
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Loe and Littleton, perhaps
but i am still pretty curious to see what Murray can do when healthy. Plus, I think you are going to have to give up more than you think to get most of those guys, because many of them at least began establishing themselves this season with their respective teams and started “growing roots”, whereas most of the guys you listed as examples had been almost completely devalued by their previous orgs when released/acquired.
by clark on
Sep 17, 2008 10:55 AM CDT
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Murray
He has shown the ability to succeed in the majors? Really? Please explain.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Sep 17, 2008 3:26 PM CDT
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I agree
Murray hasnt shown enough to warrant keeping him on the 40 all things being equal. With his injury history his greatly reduced velocity his control issues and his general failure to excel in any role, I wouldn’t hesitate to expose him to the rule 5. I certainly wouldn’t chose him over poveda for example. I wonder if the rangers’ fascination with him is of the Connor era. Certainly, Connor is the one who decided to switch him to a starters role this year which was stupid in my opinion for a guy who has had 2-3 surgeries, just flat stupid. His future, if he has one in the majors, lies in the bullpen I think and in order to be successful he has to have much improved control.
by Goyogringo on
Sep 18, 2008 9:34 AM CDT
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The list of targets
is decent, but it does not really jive with the title of the post. Bargain shopping, in my opinion, is finding players who could be viewed as expendable by their current team because their recent play disappointed compared to previous expectations or they are blocked by players who are perceived to be better or have more projection. David Murphy is an example of such a player when he was stuck behind other OFs in Boston, as is Max Ramirez, who Cleveland undervalued because of his lack of a true position. In our franchise, a player like Metcalf could be a potential bargain at the major league level, as he could very easily hit .260/.330/.440, play excellent defense, and start 150 games for another team on the cheap. Marcus Lemon is an example of a potential “bargain” prospect because he is blocked and doubts linger about his defense. Still, if we didn’t already have all these middle infielders, we would be talking about him being our 2B for a decade starting in 2011.
Some of the guys you listed perhaps were bargains, but most are now on teams for which they play a key role, or on teams starved for pitching (or both). The exception is perhaps Villanova, who I suggested as part of a Laird deal back in the early summer, although I think he is a bargain for exactly the opposite reason you stated. His numbers indicate he is much better suited for a reliever role, and very possibly a key late inning role, although I hear his stuff isn’t as solid as his numbers indicate.
by clark on Sep 17, 2008 10:35 AM CDT 0 recs
Thanks for the comments, Clark
The pitchers you describe (Bailey, Morales, Niemann, etc) will be covered in the second half of this post. For what it is worth, it appears that both Cincinatti and KC are facing pretty tough decisions related to their 40 man rosters this fall (both teams have morethan 45 players on their 40’s with prospects needing to be added), which might make a pitcher like Ramirez or Burton more likely to be traded than they would ordinarily be.
by spurdynasty on
Sep 17, 2008 10:52 AM CDT
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good point
and that is what makes the quality and quantity of younger prospects in this franchise so ripe for potential this offseason. I hope i did not come off as argumentative or dismissive in my posts. As usual, this is a rec worthy effort on your part. Thanks for catalyzing the conversation.
Also, I would love to hear your thoughts on Mitch Talbot as a potential bargain (along with the pitchers you mentioned). His K/BB ratio, ground out rate, and lack of HRs allowed make him intriguing in my mind, and he is just as blocked as Niemann in the TB org.
by clark on
Sep 17, 2008 11:04 AM CDT
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Mitch Talbot - 24 yo LHP
Talbot failed to show up in any of my screens (not enough ML innings, not ranked by BA), but he looks to be a potentially interesting Rule 5 draftee. Here’s my quick take:
Average to below average stuff (fastball, slider, change) with above average control – ~7.5K/9IP, 2.61 BB/9IP. His ERA and WHIP in two years of AAA have been good but not great (4.53ERA/1.42 WHIP in 2007, 3.86ERA/1.24WHIP in 2008). He’s got a strong GO/FO ratio which, combined with his left-handedness, suggests that he might be a fit for the Rangers.
He will be eligible for the Rule 5 draft this offseason unless the Rays decide to add him to their already-deep collection of young pitchers. He appears to have 2 options remaining, which will be a big plus given that he will likely need a bit of time to figure out how to produce outs in the major leagues.
by spurdynasty on
Sep 17, 2008 12:23 PM CDT
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also interesting
he seems to be a bit streaky. he had a series of outings in May and June in which he looked dominant, striking out more than a batter per inning and giving up few, if any, ERs. Then he fell off in late June and early July (when I was monitoring him as a potential add on to a MB trade) and then rebounded later in the season, finishing quite strong, despite an uncharacteristic jump in his walk rate. The thing that really jumps out is his ability to keep the ball in the park. I had no idea he was not already on the 40. It will be very interesting to see what the Rays do this offseason to attempt to keep all of their young talent protected.
by clark on
Sep 17, 2008 1:09 PM CDT
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Talbot is on the Rays' 40 man roster
Sorry. I just realized that I made a mistake in my thinking about Talbot and the Rule 5 draft. Talbot was recently added to the Rays’ 40-man roster and will therefore be ineligible for the Rule 5 draft. Given the talent level on the Rays, I think it reasonably likely that Talbot will be placed on waivers to make room for another Rule 5-eligible prospect this fall. If thaty happens, then the Rangers could either claim him or trade for him if they decided they wanted to add Talbot to their own 40-man roster.
by spurdynasty on
Sep 17, 2008 1:24 PM CDT
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Part of the bargain shopping you missed
involves hurt guys who are worth a flier. Guys like Kelvim Escobar and Eric Bedard might be willing to sign for less.
by FirebatM3 on Sep 18, 2008 11:40 AM CDT 0 recs
That's a great idea for another FanPost, FireBat
The Cards have certainly made a living resurrecting veterans from the scrap heap.
The thing that drove my thinking for this post was the large number of suggestions that the Rangers trade for a young, established major league pitcher (Greinke, Cain, Nolasco, etc) this off-season. I hate the idea of trading high-ceiling prospects with 5 or more years of club control for a pitcher with only 2 or 3 years before he hits free agency. The thing that struck me is that almost all of the pitchers being named as trade targets could have been obtained for far less just a year or two before. So I decided to take a look around the league to see who might be likely to break out in 2009 but whose current numbers or situation might leave them as outcasts on their own team. I don’t know that I’ve succeeded but I’ve enjoyed the conversation.
by spurdynasty on
Sep 18, 2008 11:02 PM CDT
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