It could be worse; we could be the Mariners (part 8,675,309)
by Inkara1 on Sep 18, 2008 12:13 PM CDT
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PrintHip pain sent him to the disabled list in April, though just before that, he first felt pain in his shoulder. He's due to undergo surgery Sept. 26.
"The start after I hurt my hip, I felt discomfort in the last inning I pitched," Bedard said. "I know exactly when I did it. After that it got worse and worse"
"We knew what it was after the MRI -- it's a tear in the labrum and a cyst," Bedard said. "Surgery was always an option, but you want it to be the last option. You're never 100 percent sure what will happen in surgery."
So Erik Bedard has a torn labrum. He'll probably be out until June at the earliest, but apparently Bedard's eligible for arbitration this offseason and the team would have to offer him at least $6 million, meaning he'll probably be non-tendered. So for five players, the M's got 80 OK innings in the first half of what looks to be their worse season since the early 1980s. The Seattle blogosphere is pretty solidly declaring this the worst trade in team history.
Not that it really should make us feel better about McCarthy's monthly injury, or Mendoza's affliction with suckitis, but it does put it in perspective.
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"Did I say labia, Carlos?"
I don’t think that’s what I said…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Somebody had to say it.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
yeah
I tore the labrum in my left hip a couple years back and was subjected to this hilarious joke. It got old about the first time I heard it.
"You’re the only here who contributes schtick only." - brettgardner
there's one in the hip, too?
my shoulder’s got a torn one…but I won’t have surgery yet, I’m too fat.
"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "
by Walter Sobchak on Sep 18, 2008 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
A question....
Assuming he is non-tendered, is the talent there intriguing enough to offer him a 2 year deal, with the firm possibility that you’ll get, at best, a year’s worth of production out of him?
I'd do it
if the deal was structure right and incentive based.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
+1
in a heartbeat
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 18, 2008 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions
Why?
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 19, 2008 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm speaking
philosophically, perhaps, not really suggesting that the situation is right for the club this offseason. I might actually advocate a non-roster deal while he rehabs with some sort of deadline to be added to the 40-man or he’s a free agent. I’m talking low risk here. If he’s not recovering well or just looks like he’s not going to, you let him go. He might have to do a Freddy Garcia wait and see, though.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
Personally, I'd take the 10 foot pole approach w/ any shoulder injuries
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 19, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions
good gosh yes
throw $15 mil over 2 years at him?
"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "
by Walter Sobchak on Sep 18, 2008 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Too much
I don’t think it’s likely he’ll ever be the same pitcher he was in 2007, and you’re basically hoping for one decent year out of two. I would offer him a couple-three million per with a chance for more on incentives.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
This seems like the kinds of deals the Rangers have been in on the past few years
Milton
Gagne
Sosa
Good players with Big ?s.
What is the deal with torn labrums? Recovery time and success rate anybody?
If there were no rewards to reap,
no loving embrace to see me through this tedious path I've chosen here,
I certainly would've walked away by now... Be patient
There was an article years back
which basicly called it a death sentence for a pitchers career. Im not sure if there have been any medical advances since then.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Will Carroll recently said...
…that it isn’t the death sentence it used to be (and he wrote that original article).
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 19, 2008 9:31 AM CDT up reply actions
Good!
I hadn’t read that, but I have seen some pitchers recently who have had surgery, and have had some comeback success. I assumed there had been some medical advances.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Was this not the most obvious long term outcome
of that trade? Think about it – is there any other way that Seattle trading all their best young players for a single pitcher would work itself out other than him being ineffective and ultimately seriously injured…
this and the Haren deal
should serve as cold, hard reminders to the crowd around here clammoring to bring in big name pitcher via trade. Granted, Haren has done his part in AZ, and Bedard has a history riddled with injuries, but any pitcher dealt will have some risk, and pitchers, with very, very few exceptions, are not consistent enough to justify the prices some teams have paid lately.
Huh?
If anything, this outcome should warn against trading for overrated guys who are at/past their peak and who are about to be free agents with injury histories.
In the four years leading up to the trade, here were their stats:
Haren
Age ERA+ Innings
23 95 46
24 117 217
25 108 223
26 137 222.2
Bedard
Age ERA+ Innings
25 100 137.1
26 108 141.2
27 121 196.1
28 146 182
The M’s traded their farm for a guy who was simply not as good. While his stats were roughly equivalent to Haren’s, he is two years older – there was good reason to believe that 2007 was his peak year at age 28 – and Bedard had significantly fewer innings pitched than Haren because he was constantly getting injured or the Orioles were afraid of over-using him.
To say – “see that Bedard trade! This is why we shouldn’t trade any of our prospects for pitching” is like saying that you shouldn’t put money in the stock market since Lehman Brothers was a bad investment. That is over-interpreting your data points, and in doing so throwing the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. Really, what you should be saying is you won’t invest in companies that are over-exposed to certain market dangers, and you shouldn’t invest in pitchers who many indications say may end up injured or sucking. (Or even better, you say I’ll take the risk on a few guys like that, but I expect a discount).
peak age
I don’t think you can point to a certain age bracket and expect pitchers to be “in their prime”. It’s my understanding that pitching isn’t really subject to the bell shape curve with a peak at age 27-30, like hitters generally are.
IMO, Bedard being 2 years older doesn’t really factor into the equation much.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
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