Michael Young injury situation

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 18, 2008 12:57 PM CDT Comment 97 comments

Something that may have been overlooked in last night's debacle (or that just I, perhaps, overlooked) is the situation with Michael Young. Michael Young aggravated his fractured finger, resulting in him being lifted from the game, and Will Carroll has this to say:

Michael Young left Wednesday's game after re-injuring his fractured finger. This could end his season.

If Young's season is done, he's going to end up with a .276/.331/.393 line, a very disappointing performance (with an OPS lower than, among others, Gerald Laird and Brandon Boggs at this point).

There's been talk that it isn't really fair to judge Young on what he's put up offensively this year, because he's been playing hurt much of the season, and there's probably some merit to the notion that his injury has hampered his hitting. Still, we've seen a steady deterioration in Young's power over the past several years, and the idea that he's going to have a Paul Molitor-esque surge in performance in his 30s seems misguided, at best.

What to do with Young going forward is one of the biggest decisions the Rangers have to make this offseason. There's a lot of debate about his defense at shortstop, and folks like Evan Grant, T.R. Sullivan, and Tom Grieve have argued that Young is at least an average defensive shortstop. If you believe that to be the case, then it probably doesn't make sense to move Young in the immediate future -- instead, you probably want to leave him at shortstop the next 2-3 years and use Elvis Andrus to get pitching help.

Some folks have suggested that it makes sense to slide Young over to second base and move Ian Kinsler to left field. Personally, I think Young would be almost as much of a defensive liability at second base as he is at shortstop, while reducing the value that his arm provides. Plus, moving Kinsler -- who I think can be a solid defensive second baseman, despite his error totals this year -- to left field reduces his value significantly. If you think Young's best slot, long-term, is second base, you probably want to move him there either now or after next season, and use Kinsler as trade bait to try to land a top-notch starting pitcher.

The other issue is the bat, and the question of how much of this year's decline is injury-related, and how much is just the natural decline of a player in his early 30s. If an OPS in the 725-750 range is what you're going to get from Young for the next few years, then putting him in left field -- where I think he'd be a defensive liability -- or DH is foolishness.

So, yeah, the Young situation is a sticky one. The Rangers are on the hook with him for $75 million over the next 5 years, he may not be good enough defensively to play a premium defensive position, and may not be a good enough hitter to stick in a CIF or DH slot. And his mystique is such that you still have folks claiming that the Rangers shouldn't -- can't -- consider dealing him unless they are getting a haul similar to, if not better than, what Mark Teixeira brought. So can you imagine the fallout if he was relegated to a bench role?

0 recs | Comment 97 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I still think 3B

is the place for him. If you can field balls hit at you, and he seems to be able to, and if you can throw, which he seems able to, its the place to be. Couple that with no “natural” 3Bs currently in the system, and I think its the thing to do. Sure he doesn’t hit enough for 3B, but at some point, we gotta stop sticking bad defensive players at a position, just because they don’t hit enough to play elsewhere.

Obviously, if someone offered us a half drunk can of warm Dr Pepper with backwash, and a halfeaten stale moonpie and took his contract, I’d do that in a heartbeat. It’s just with the no trade, and his obvious lack of value and massive contract, I can’t see that happening. We are stuck with him for the next 5 years. By the end of the contract, I suspect he is not gonna have a whole lot more value than CHP did.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 1:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I predict

this post gets the most comments today.

Like many, I still think 3B is the least damaging place he can be, and if Andrus is a good defensive SS, I’d rather keep him unless he really can bring back a top young arm in return.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 1:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

By 2013, Michael Young will

have made $ 90 million over 9 years with the Rangers.

Young’s level of play and what he meant to this team from 2004-2008 was worth at least $ 10 million per.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 18, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And....?

Yes, he’s been a nice player for the last few years. What does that have to do with 2009-13? Are you saying they owe him? Foolish, if so.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Michael Young did not go into

those negotiations with a gun in his hand and as I recall, the Rangers came to him.

JD (with the blessing of Hicks) knew what it would take to retain Young. The Rangers brass were given a price and they met it.

If you’re going to get mad at anybody, get mad at JD.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 18, 2008 1:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course

everything is Daniels’ fault in the end.

He was on the grassy knoll, he shot the Archduke Ferdinand, he caused the mortgage crisis, he was responsible for New Coke, the Bay of Pigs fiasco, and has been known to consort with the bin Ladens. He convinced Napolean that invading Russia was a good play, invited Hitler into Czechoslovakia, and invented the FloBee. He promotes the metric system and drives and Edsel. He puts his toilet paper in the improper overhand fashion, and drinks milk straight from the carton.

If he is not stopped the earth will be destroyed. It is that simple.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 9 recs

Rec

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 18, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh

Toilet paper hung in improper overhand fashion.

Fabulous reference.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 18, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand why...

…people believe it is justified and worthwhile to vastly overpay someone for their final few seasons with a team, because the salary system in MLB is such that a player is underpaid their first few seasons.

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 18, 2008 1:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Adam, much of Young's value

to this team is intangible (what he means to the fans).

I don’t believe in too many intangibles but Young is one of those players who held the intangible and timely value of being the FOTF at a time when the Rangers desperately needed one (they were about to trade Tex).

Once again, there’s no reason to be pissed off at Young. Get pissed off at JD.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 18, 2008 1:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+10

by JackDublin on Sep 18, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

People in here love to carry the water

for JD but one of the number one complaints in this place is Young’s impending contract.

The number one reason he received that contract is because JD knew the price it was going to take to keep Young with this sinking ship so he met it.

Young was paid waaaay below market value (his fault because of the contract he signed) from 2004-2008 but he made up for it and when his deal is done, $ 9 million per for 10 years is a pretty good deal for everybody involved.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 18, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't see anything

in his story, or in his comments that would lead anyone to think he is pissed at Young.

It was a completely idiotic move by the team, and its gonna cost this team a ton down the road as Young ages.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

People bitch about Young all the time

and Adam has led the charge.

To me, criticizing Young is completely unwarranted.

This one is on JD.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 18, 2008 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

All Adam has done

that I have seen is point out his stats, and point out how he would likely develop.

I think a lot of Young supporters take those as personal attacks.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

On JD

It is a bad contract, and Daniels deserves blame for it. But I scoff at your insistence that everything that has gone wrong for the Rangers since before he was even here is somehow Daniels’ fault, and his fault alone. That’s a little like blaming (or giving credit for) the economy on the president.

If you remove every trade Daniels made the Rangers still do not win. It’s not that simple, it’s not black and white. I’m not “carrying water” for JD. He has done some stupid things, he’s done some brilliant things. You only see negatives and accuse anyone of seeing anything remotely positive of just being a waterboy. Ridiculous.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We both agree that JD is to blame for the contract. Wasn't that

easy?

Everything else you wrote was you rattling your own head just to listen to the sound.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 18, 2008 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

how you will only acknowledge negatives.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

When the Hindenburg went down

nobody asked if the kitchen served a good quiche that day.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 18, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

His worst failure

He had poisoned the quiche but never got to serve it.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not pissed off at Young

I’m pointing out how stupid it is to say, “Well, he made $300K or $2 million per year for several years, and was worth more than that, so there’s nothing wrong with paying him $15 million a year to be mediocre now.”

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 18, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If one thing is going to keep the Rangers from getting to a playoff level

It’s going to be deals like this. No matter how good the farm is they can’t block better and cheaper talent. I forgive the bad trades and bad signings (just as much as I love the Tex type trades and MB signings). I think the Cowboys have learned (Emmitt) to not pay for past performances. It’s something the Rangers need to make a policy of as well.

by RangersOCD on Sep 18, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Its not hurting the Angels

They have Reggie Willits being blocked by Garrett Anderson and GMJ yet they are doing just fine. You can deal with monster contracts that are “flops” if they are positional players. But you can’t with starting pitchers.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Sep 18, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only the Angels will sit GMJ

I don’t see the Rangers ever doing that. And in the process a better talent will not be on the field.

by RangersOCD on Sep 18, 2008 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree.....

I am a fan of Michael Young and will continue to be because of his intangibles.

He says the right things, plays the game the right way, and most of the time performs to his expected abilities.

I’ll take Michael over Manny any freaking day!!!!!!!!

i like baseball too

by bspate on Sep 18, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

and

he has good face.

Life is pain - we've got to scrape the joy from it every chance we get.

by jshcmp on Sep 18, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

facepalm

by venturafearsnolan on Sep 18, 2008 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And my baseball team will destroy yours.

by philkid3 on Sep 18, 2008 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He says the right things?

Are we really rewarding people who robotically spout baseball cliches?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 18, 2008 4:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only if they're white.

by venturafearsnolan on Sep 18, 2008 5:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

THANK YOU!!!!!

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by DaheelzCM on Sep 18, 2008 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Examples.

by philkid3 on Sep 18, 2008 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Untradeable

Hey Adam (or any of the more proficient posters here),

I’d love to see someone actually break down the possibility of trading MY. I’m not disagreeing that he’s untradeable, but I’d like to actually read in depth about this posibility.

Every post I see states he is, without actually discussing what it might take to get rid of him. Explain his contract. Compare his output to others. Pick a few trades of similar players or similar contracts that have actually happened. Pick a few teams or GMs that might be more likely to pick deal for him and discuss why.

This would be a useful breakdown in the discussion of MY and one that hasn’t been done to my knowledge.

gr7070

by gr7070 on Sep 19, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

i also still like 3B for Young

in 2010 with Andrus at SS. We get a stop-gap at 3rd for 2009 or pick up Blalock’s option and have Davis at 3rd for one more year. Then you use Smoak or Davis as a trade chip for pitching. 2010-2013 infield, Davis/Smoak, Kinsler, Andrus, Young…. not bad.

by jcAustin on Sep 18, 2008 1:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

We get it.

I swear this topic is getting old quick. Its like a bad political argument on the budget for the Department of Defense.

by JackDublin on Sep 18, 2008 1:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Get used to it

People bitched about CHPs contract the whole time he was here. I don’t think this is gonna be much different.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two ways it might be different

The contract becomes cheaper because the league makes more money.

He fits at 3B, where there’s otherwise little depth.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 18, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I really doubt

he will drop out of the top 20 contracts anytime soon.

Even at 3B, his bat, especially his lack of power, is going to be an issue. I still think he is a better fit there than in an up the middle defensive position though. We have way too many folks playing up the middle who are good bats/weak gloves, and it probably cost the team 5-10 games by the end of the year.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

So Young sucks, so what?

Unfortunately, every team has this problem. He’s our Garret Anderson or Johnny Damon or Brad Ausmus or Todd Helton or Ken Griffey Jr. or whoever (admittedly not all those comparisons work very well, but you get the idea). Sometimes teams have to hang on to an overpaid and overrated veteran. There’s no way he’s worth the money he’s making, but if after next year Young is our only overpriced veteran, we’re going to be in great shape.

Frankly, the fact that we can stick him at 3b makes it easier to swallow. Young won’t be blocking Andrus and we don’t have any longterm options at 3b. Plus, if we didn’t have Young, we probably wouldn’t be allocating any resources to 3b anyways, and Young will probably be as good or better than the Ramon Vazquez’s of the world.

The hard part is going to be moving Young from the top of the lineup. I don’t think he’ll fight a move to 3b as much as he’ll fight hitting 8th.

by cstorm15 on Sep 18, 2008 1:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

+1

All the way through.

One positive of the Hart regime is he long-termed the infield at reasonable prices.

JD overpaid to extend Young, and possibly wanted to pay less, but yeah, what cstorm said. It happens.

Kinda shudder to think how fubar a Sabathia/Sheets deal could get. Seriously.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 18, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sheets got hurt last night

and apparently his forearm and elbow are hurting.

There’s no way a team with a small market payroll can afford to have Sheets.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 18, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw that.

I told my friend, who is an Astros fan, that I would be happy if they signed Sheets. He won’t help them win (always injured) and he will cripple the team after they pay $22MM, 5 years. He then ranted about hurricanes and Bud Selig.

I hope we stay far away from Sheets.

by FuturePants on Sep 18, 2008 3:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've been on the fence, but sometimes

advocating taking Sheets if the contract was right, with a buyer beware attitude. My rationale was that even if Sheets only gives you 100 innings, that’s 100 innings you don’t have the likes of Mendoza out there. Last night probably pushed me off the fence. He’s too risky even if you go into a deal knowing you’ll only get half a season out of him.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Johnny Damon?

He’s been very good this year, he just hasn’t been healthy.

But if I’m a fan of a team with a similar problem with a similar player, I’m going to be pissed, too. Just because other teams make stupid mistakes doesn’t mean people should be happy about the Rangers’ stupid mistakes.

by philkid3 on Sep 18, 2008 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Damon’s been a snarling beast at the plate this season.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 18, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

True on Damon

He’s been one of the few bright spots on my otherwise terrible fantasy team. I was thinking more about Damon defensively in CF as compared to Young defensively at SS, but you’re right about Damon offensively.

by cstorm15 on Sep 18, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damon's defense.

He’s in left mostly, but he’s been a +6 fielder in left. +7 last year.

Though, he has been a -3 in center in 269 innings played there. At that rate, in Young’s number of innings played at short (1,235), he’s project to a -12 in center (Young has a -8 at short this year). But it’s a small sample size, it’s also possible he could improve or stay the same over more time.

by philkid3 on Sep 18, 2008 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

This dialogue

is the perfect of example of the fact that Josey is so condescending and combative that no one can bring themselves to agree with him, even on the rare occasion when he is correct.
Since nearly every day someone brings up the subject of MY being such a burden going forward, then they must really think that this is an important factor in keeping the team down in the future. Identifying who made this mistake and berating them should have at least equal emphasis to piling on MY.
I don’t know how everyone can keep a straight face (metaphorically, of course) when they make such a big deal about the MY burden without making a big deal out of who is to be blamed for making this deal.

by mcgee48c on Sep 18, 2008 1:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

BTW

didn’t MY have .370+ OBP and .810+ OPS entering play on the day he first broke his finger. SLG still down some, but it looked like he was in the midst of a mini resurgence at that point.

by mcgee48c on Sep 18, 2008 2:19 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Possible

It’s entirely possible that Young has an up year next year and is a plus bat again, but you’d have to be awfully optimistic to think he won’t continue the declining trend over the rest of the contract.

I think there would be a lot less bitching about Young if the pitching hadn’t been so awful this year, but he bears a small part of the blame for the pitchers’ lines, too. If you’re going to be the Face of the Franchise, you will have to be ready to be a lightning rod when things aren’t going well. If the Rangers contend next year we’ll probably hear a lot more about his intangibles.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can

agree that the last couple of years of MY’s contract could be a whipping. I feel its premature to think that its a foregone conclusion that MY’s performance has fallen off with no hope that he has 2-3 more productive years.
I also think that MY is a smart enough hitter that he could recognize his power decrease and work the count more. I believe he intentionally is agressive in some situations where other hitters take pitches but does it to produce runs not because he has poor strike zone control.

by mcgee48c on Sep 18, 2008 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've heard that he was smart enough

to work walks more for 5 years, from Ed and others, since his lack of walks was a huge issue.

I’d be shocked if it ever happened.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rose-colored Cahill

That’s what we will start calling you.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 18, 2008 2:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

See below.

I’ve been way, way too optimistic about MY. I need to stop that, and become more realistic.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can argue...

…that many are ready to jump out the window because of MY’s upcoming contract with tenuous evidence, at best. Let’s try not to FREAK OUT. MAINTAIN COMPOSURE!

by FuturePants on Sep 18, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Screw composure

This is a blog, we don’t do that here.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 3:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right. Or, “Don’t you know that you can count me out.”

by FuturePants on Sep 18, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmmm...

MY’s actual line – .276/.331/.393 – 619 PA

guess I was right….285/.345/.399 – 675 PA

http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/3/4/154832/1193#

Kudos also to:

Longhorn – .288/.330/.420 [599 PA]
DJCahill – .291/.341/.395 680 PAs
Dustin – 285/325/428 – 675 PA
and gr7070

on our negative predictions coming true!

I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler

by ortonius on Sep 18, 2008 2:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You know

I’ve been way too optimistic about MY 2 years in a row. I need to work on my reining in my optimism.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Woohoo!

by gr7070 on Sep 19, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who plays short rest of the way,

Vazquez or Duran?

by Kinslerhomer on Sep 18, 2008 2:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I would rather see Duran.

by psmitty on Sep 18, 2008 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Andrus :)

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Andrus

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 18, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah! This year.

Yeah, probably Vazquez.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 18, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Use Kinsler for trade bait??

If the Rangers trade Kinsler within the next three or four years……..I’ll no longer be a Rangers fan!!

i like baseball too

by bspate on Sep 18, 2008 2:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I wonder if any Red Sox fans said that about Garciapara.

I’d rather this team win with Kinsler than without him, but I’m a Rangers fan, not a Kinsler fan. If trading Kinsler makes it easier to win, I’ll be happier.

by philkid3 on Sep 18, 2008 4:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Apples and Oranges

Nomar was past his prime physically when the Red Sox traded him. (Look at his production and play in the field since the trade.) Kinsler may just be reaching his prime. Seems kind of foolish to trade an inexpensive, productive young skill position player in his prime. Looks like Kinsler won’t make $7 million until 2012. Wouldn’t it be better to trade him in 2011 or 2012?

by sggut95 on Sep 18, 2008 4:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You would expect to get more for Kinsler though

I can’t believe you’d take the option off the table. It may be that no one wants to overpay for Kinsler, but if someone wants to, you have to consider it. Better to get rid of a player a year too early than a year too late.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's 26

You’d be losing arguably his four most productive years. Trading a second baseman with speed and power who gets on base… boy, you’d really have to get a lot back to justify that.

by sggut95 on Sep 18, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right now

he’s a “2B” the same way “Shortstop” Michael Young is.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Granted

But at 26, he still has a shot at improving his defense, where Young will most likely regress further. Besides, it’s not as if Kinsler’s a butcher out there.

by sggut95 on Sep 18, 2008 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's reminiscent

of Soriano out there.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

I concede the point. Bill James has his range factor at 5.77, compared to, say Dustin Pedroia at 4.71. His plus/minus on ground balls this year is -14, which puts him right around Alexei Ramirez (-13). So, maybe he is a butcher out there afterall.

by sggut95 on Sep 18, 2008 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Range Factor

Not a measure of defense.

Is really a unvalueable stat.

by Requiem on Sep 18, 2008 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But he was also better in his first two years than Soriano ever was.

by philkid3 on Sep 18, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Naw

Kinsler has the tools to very good defensively and has shown the kind of work ethic that makes you think maybe he can turn himself into a non-liability (at the least) out there.

With Soriano there was never really that hope, unless your glasses were very freaking rosey.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 18, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Soriano had range and speed

he just would start picking daisies in the middle of an inning it seems like. I see the same tendencies in Kinsler. He just seems to check out on plays.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's beside the point.

The point is that you should root for the team, not a player. If Kinsler is used in a trade that improves the Rangers, that’s a good thing, no matter how much a fan favorite he is.

by philkid3 on Sep 18, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think intelligent fans generally...

… root for trades that improve the team. The question remains, could the Rangers get enough in return for Kinsler to justify shipping him off in his prime, while he’s pulling down a very manageable salary.

by sggut95 on Sep 18, 2008 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know.

If they didn’t, that would be the time to be upset. But merely saying “I won’t be a Rangers fan anymore if they trade Kinsler” regardless of anything else is silly.

If a good trade actually happened, that would be a good thing.

by philkid3 on Sep 18, 2008 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

is MY

even in the Top 10 biggest problems facing this club?

by SteveP on Sep 18, 2008 3:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd say so.

He isn’t #1 (starting pitching)
or #2, but his likely decline through his contract, and the likely inability to bench him in 3 years when he likely isn’t good enough to start probably makes the top 10.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd actually list

every single pitcher other than Frank Francisco ahead of MY.

by SteveP on Sep 18, 2008 3:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And since 2004...

…Frankie has all of 1.5 good seasons with the big club.

by FuturePants on Sep 18, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You shouldn't expect much

out of your 4th and fifth starter, or your long and middle relief.

You should expect a bunch out of your $80M man

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

PECOTA for MY

2008 (age 31) 626 .290 .340 .412 OPS 752 (in the high side)
2009 (age 32) 561 .293 .349 .409 OPS 758
2010 (age 33) 540 .286 .341 .396 OPS 737
2011 (age 34) 508 .285 .344 .402 OPS 746
2012 (age 35) 422 .281 .334 .393 OPS 727
2013 (age 36) 308 .275 .331 .365 OPS 696

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 18, 2008 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Did Ben survive the hurricane?

by Chase Irwin on Sep 18, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's part of the team's biggest problem,

…run prevention.

He’s a bad defesive player at the most important defensive position.

Sure our pitchers are the major part of this problem, but let’s not understate defense and the lack of contribution of an everyday player in run prevention.

And if you want to take things a step further, I actually see run differential as our biggest problem. When you include his mediocre bat and his poor defense at the biggest defensive position MY takes on a hefty amount of responsibility for the AL’s 12th worst (of 14) run differential.

That’s right, the Rangers should have the 12th worst record in the AL! As positive as this season has been for our record and our young ML players and our prospects this fact still scares me.

by gr7070 on Sep 19, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

young

leave him at short til elvis is ready

then move him to 3rd

by kumizi on Sep 18, 2008 3:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Flip side...

Since there was never going to be a shortage of “Nattering Nabobs of Negativism” for this thread, I guess I’d throw out something that might make thoughts of Michael Young in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 less painful. Not sure I really believe in it much myself, but it’s worth considering:

June 5, 2008 – After the Texas Rangers played at home against the Cleveland Indians, Michael Young dropped a 45 lb. weight on his hand and suffered a hairline fracture on the tip of the ring finger on his left hand. At this point, Young was hitting .306/.359/.451/.810. Young prefered to play through the injury rather than going on the Disabled List ( http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080607&content_id=2863483&vkey=news_tex&fext=.jsp&c_id=tex )

June 26 – Young’s numbers fell to .274/.331/.393/.724, 21 days after he initially injured his finger.

July 28 – Young left a home game against Seattle in the second inning after he suffered a fracture in his right ring finger. The initial prognosis had him out five to seven days ( http://texas.rangers.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080728&content_id=3214519&vkey=news_tex&fext=.jsp&c_id=tex ).

At this point, Young’s line is .298/.345/.421/.766. Since bottoming out on the 26th of June, Young had hit 40 for 109 (.367) with 7 doubles, 1 triple, 2 home runs, and 5 BB’s.

July 29 through September 17th – Despite the fact that he was initially expected to miss five to seven games due to the injury July 28, Young played in every game. Numbers go down drastically, falling all the way to .276/.331/.393/.724.

It really looks like the injuries to Michael Young’s hands are having a very discernible effect on his performance, as there have been pretty sharp declines following the games whe he suffered those injuries. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect a return to his 2005 numbers (.331/.385/.513/.898), but I don’t know how crazy it is to believe that he might be able to give us 2-3 years with numbers similar to his 2007 line of .315/.366/.418/.784.

Republican or Democrat? You mean I have to pick just one? But what if I love violence AND hate liberty?

by YourNameHere on Sep 18, 2008 4:51 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

By the beard of Science I hope you're right on this one.

It’s not it’s a foregone conclusion he’ll continue to get worse. Heck maybe he’ll move to third and bulk back up a bit (he got waaay skinnier when he moved to SS) and add a bit of power back to his game.

If we can get an .800 OPS and decent 3b defense out of Face and his contract, I guess that wouldn’t be an abject disaster.

Let’s hope.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 18, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Having said all that

Sure, I think there’s a decent chance he can hit something like .300/.350/.425 over the next 2 to 3 years, but that’s still a terrible contract.

The mitigating factor is that so much of the rest of the team will be young and cheap it may not hamstring the team’s finances much. They have payroll room to go get a free agent to fill a hole as all the young talent matures/arrives.

Don't you know it's gonna be alright?

by t ball on Sep 18, 2008 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is only one option for MY imo...

with his huge contract, strong arm, no range, on top of the fact that the Rangers have no real prospects coming up at a certain position. It just seems pretty obvious.

My needs to go to 3B ASAP.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 18, 2008 4:53 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree

But here’s one small (perhaps insignficant) issue. There are some in baseball that still covet MY. Ozzie Guillen springs to mind (I know he’s not the GM, just an example). By leaving MY at the more valuable position of SS next year, the Rangers might be able to pique someone’s interest, trade him after or during the seson expecting little (if anything) in return and almost certainly contribute some to his remaining payroll.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Sep 18, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs