Saturday a.m. things
Geez, that was a frustrating game last night. Matt Harrison and Jamey Wright throwing batting practice. Gerald Laird diving into first base head-first in the 9th, on a play where he might have been safe if he'd run through the bag. Scoring 13 runs and losing.
Ugh.
Evan Grant says yesterday's game epitomized the problems with this team, and the Rangers have been focusing on those issues with the exit interviews Jon Daniels and Ron Washington have been conducting with the pitchers. Grant says Kevin Millwood's interview included Nolan Ryan, who personally challenged Millwood to arrive to camp in better shape next year.
Grant also says that Matt Harrison's velocity was way down yesterday, topping out at 87 mph. That's worrisome.
Drew Davison writes that Milton Bradley wants a long-term deal, is disappointed that the Rangers haven't talked to him more than they have about extending him, says that it is a 50/50 shot if he comes back, and says that he'll retire before accepting another one year deal.
Bradley also says winning the batting title means nothing, although I have to wonder if Bradley would have played the past couple of days if he had enough PAs to qualify already, given how terrible he's looked out there.
Since June 1, Jamey Wright has a 6.89 ERA.
0 recs |
237 comments
Comments
How many times...
has OMFT done that stupid head first dive into first base in the last month? That play makes no sense to me.
As far as Board Game goes it’s looking more and more likely that he will be going elsewhere. I certainly hope JD won’t give him a long-term deal given his all his injuries. I think that Cruz and MaxRam make him a little more expendable, but it will still be a big bat missed in the middle of that lineup next year.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 20, 2008 10:09 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
As well as a big trading chip
that could have been moved for something more worthwhile than draft picks, imo.
I know I know, we don’t know what offers were floated. But, I have to believe that value would have been offered for the best hitter in baseball at the time.
Now we’re coming away with … ?
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 11:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
i vividly remember the huge wave of ranger fans that were offended at the idea of moving bradley before the all star break.
fwiw – there were quite a few that were equally passionate about keeping ponson during his hot start (before he was RELEASED w/ NO compensation).
when you are dealing with guys that been given numerous opportunities you cash out when you have the chance.
is texas that much better at managing talent that they can get so much more out of their players than all of the other teams in the league?
it’s more likely the exact opposite
gange = GREAT move
mb (and agree that we don’t know what if anything was offered) = bad non-move
my two cents – i find it very hard to believe that one of the then contending teams wouldn’t have valued MB enough to offer something of substance
by sam in so cal on Sep 21, 2008 11:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh...
Grant says Kevin Millwood’s interview included Nolan Ryan
Nolan Ryan is going to set this organization back with his personnel meddling and “back in my day” mentality. I have a BAD feeling about where this organization is headed. Which sucks, because I was just starting to get a good feeling about it given the buildup of the farm system and the good play of some of the younger players at the major league level this year.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 10:11 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ugh
there is a perfect example of the Ryan hate I wrote about a day or so ago. Get used to Nolan Ryan being in charge. You are not.
Fire JD and take Wash with you.
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
by horsedooty on Sep 20, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am used to it
I was used to it the day he was hired because I knew that Tom Hicks would just hand over the keys to the organization to him.
I just don’t have to like it.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt
Nolan has good ol day syndrom. Things are different now from the time he played.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 20, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Yeah!
Things were going so great before he got here.
When are you guys going to face reality?
The problem is JD. HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE’S DOING.
He’s been the GM for 3+ years. The team is going backwards.
It’s like talking to a WALL.
Now give me some derisive smack-talk…except I have been correct since pre-season, and you have been totally wrong…but you can blame it on Nolan Ryan.
That’s the tard thing to do. Pitiful.
Smile when you call me Beat Weed!
by Clueless on Sep 22, 2008 3:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
like talking to a wall
sounds familiar
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 22, 2008 4:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell em Beat Weed!
Beat Weed is big, we are little.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 22, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My balls are aflutter
Thank the good Lord we aren’t on the telephone.
As big of a badass as you are on the internets, I shudder to think how tough you must be on that medium.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 22, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. Considering you stoop to Clueless's level at every opportunity.
by oc on Sep 22, 2008 7:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
18 hours later, I still have no idea what the fuck you are talking about
Can you dumb it down for me? Seriously, I’m at a loss as to what your bone of contention is.
Perhaps your pussy still hurts from the OC TO ANGELS bits?
Make yourself clear, little big man.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 23, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's quite simple sir.
If Clueless is ever there to open his big mouth, I can always count on you to dumb it down further with your “Beat Weed” mantra.
I suppose you think this is a clever insult…
…And insinuating I have a pussy?! Tough… real tough.
Yes, I’ve come along way
by oc on Sep 23, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor me
Scratched right out of your cool book. Whatever will I do?
I must have missed the “OC is arbiter of all that is intellectual and humane” memo.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 23, 2008 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
And I will reissue my comment to you the other day. I bet you liked the Hart era didn’t you?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 20, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
the man was hired to do a job and he is gonna do it. you can piss and moan all you want Ryan has much much more baseball cred than you have. How has you way worked out so far?
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
by horsedooty on Sep 20, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Answer the question
Did you like Hart when he was here? JD has done a better job than Hart did in his time here in Arlington.
How hasmy way worked out so far? I think the Rangers finally have a direction commited to the youth movement in a rebuilding year. I think a lot of the kids have had their struggles but they also have had moments of birlliance and are learning on the job. I have hope for the future for the first time since Melvin got fired.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 20, 2008 10:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can you assume he is going to do a good job?
He has done one notable thing so far- help McCarthy better, but with him injured all the time, that hasn’t helped anything. What JD has done is revamp one of the League’s worst Minor League Systems into one of the beset. Sure he’s made some bad trades, but he seems to be turning the right corner. As for Wash, I’m all with you in its time for him to go with some of the decisions he’s made, but I definitely disagree on JD.
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Sep 20, 2008 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
the pitching coach and the bullpen coach were there too so Ryan alone can’t get the credit for that one
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
his job
how many team presidents meddle in the day to day baseball operations? usually thats left to the gm.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 20, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
meddle?
interesting term there. Is it meddling if he was asked?
by bdavison94 on Sep 20, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps a poor choice of a word
but you get the point
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 20, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larry Lucchino
Study up on the Red Sox organization.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Sep 20, 2008 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
didnt he nearly drive his gm away too?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 20, 2008 11:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Flipside...
Here’s an example of Ryan love and what has he done to merit that?
Keep in mind he’s not pitching. He’s the president of the team now. What has he done in his current position that makes you think he’s so great?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 20, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or his previos positions?
He has shown himself to have a good grasp of running the business side of a baseball team with his work with the Houston minor league teams. That along with his name were excellent reasons to hire him to run the BUSINESS side of the organization. I applaud Hicks for that hire. However, he has no experience or track record doing anything on the BASEBALL side of a team. Let the people hired to do that handle it.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Jon Daniels has so much more
experience on the baseball side.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 11:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually he does
He’s been the General Manager of a Major League Baseball team for almost 3 years. Granted, he has never been able to throw a baseball 100 MPH but luckily the GM doesn’t need to have that skill.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 more than Nolan
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus he's been working in a front office
on the baseball side for 7-8 years
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Nolan has no clue how that baseball stuff works.
He’s probably never talked to anyone about it, or gained any experience over the years.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So pull any random former player off the street...
…and name them g.m., because obviously, they’ll do as good, or better, job as any non-former-player g.m.
The assumption that Nolan Ryan knows what he’s doing because he played for a long time and was good just baffles me.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Isiah Thomas
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
But he was a great player who played a long time. By your thinking, that should automatically make him a good basketball man.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
That’s my thinking?
That is pretty simple thinking. A + B = C?
That’s not my thinking.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then what is your thinking
What exactly makes you think Nolan could do a good job of building a baseball team besides the facts that he was a really good player for a really long time?
Enlighten us.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who said he's building the baseball team?
He is building an organization… go look at the Ray’s, see who is running that team? Or find me a Nolan Ryan organization that has failed..
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Building an organization
That is fine. I have no problem with that. I said that I thought hiring him to run the organization was a great move by Hicks. It’s the stuff he’s doing with the on field personnel that bothers me. He needs to stay away from that.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Asking his employees
to be in better shape??
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I said "people" not person
There are more people in the organization than just JD. All of whom have more experience than Nolan.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I bet Nolan never talks to any of them.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
or any in the Astro's organization..
And he probably doesn’t have any friends working in baseball for other organizations.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So again
He’s been around the game a long time so he knows people.
What has he DONE that leads you to believe he can do a good job of building a baseball team?
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jeez....
could it be that Nolan was included in this one meeting because Millwood might not take to heart the request for better conditioning from JD? Could it be that Millwood would dismiss JD’s comments because “he’s never been there” or “I know what it takes to pitch and JD doesn’t”? Nolan in the room to discuss conditioning with your biggest investment on the mound seems like a great thing. Somehow you see that as a negative.
You people get so caught up in your conspiracy theories it’s ridiculous.
by bdavison94 on Sep 20, 2008 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a conspiracy "theory" when it actually happens
My (and others) problem with the Ryan hire from the beginning was a fear that he would be getting more and more involved with the personnel on the field. That is happening. And yes, I view that as a negative because I believe Nolan’s old school, this is the way I did it mentality is going to hurt the team in the long run. Nolan was a great player for one main reason….he was a physical freak. He seems to think he can teach that freakiness to others. That is why you rarely see great players become good managers and/or personnel guys.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since the new school mentality
has really gotten this team far.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 11:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WWND
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 11:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how long has it been in place?
and do you believe ryan’s way of doing things is inherently better?
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is meeting with Washington and Daniels alone motivation enough for Millwood to come back next season in better shape?
by oc on Sep 20, 2008 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but a possible contract year is.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's a myth.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thank you
I hate that myth.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 20, 2008 12:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Myth
The myth is “players improve in contract years”?
I’m sure there’s a body of data on this, but I always took it as a good rule of thumb.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 20, 2008 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's a myth
but I’m too lazy to look up the articles I’ve seen on it.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 20, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe it's true for all players.
But i do believe there are players who I dont trust with guaranteed money in their future.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why it's a myth
Just because some players have done better in contract years doesn’t mean it’s predictable. I agree about not trusting some players with guaranteed money, for health reasons. If a guy has an attitude problem it will likely be apparent before you have to think about a long term deal.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 20, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It should be
They are his bosses.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is "ryan's way"???
Pitchers throwing BP in spring training?
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley
“If they’re going to wait, you know, that tells me they’re not too interested in keeping me,” Bradley said. "My personal opinion is that I think [the Rangers] have dragged their feet. It’s a 50-50 shot if I come back.
Bye.
“I just know I deserve to quit getting [stuck] with these one-year deals. I need to have a long-term contract. I’m not just a rent-a-player for one year. I’m looking for fair value. I’m one of the better hitters in the game, and .320 hitters with .440 on-base percentages don’t grow on trees, so you need to take advantage of it when you got it.”
Hey Milton, maybe if you could go more than 5 games without having to miss time with a myriad of vague injuries someone would be willing to give you a long term deal.
What a douche.
"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama
by DaheelzCM on Sep 20, 2008 10:18 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ummmm....ok
Good luck with that considering you leave a game every other day with some pussy foot injury.
by TxStCa on Sep 20, 2008 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bradley
He gave us a phenomenal half season, but Im ready to let him go and let max-ram get first shot at DH.
Obviously maxram wont be putting up a 1.0 ops, but I highly doubt Bradley repeats this year either.
13 million with a team option for a 2nd or 10 million (per) for 2 years with a team option for a 3rd is what I’d offer, reasonable I think. Which Im sure he would be insulted by nonetheless.
And actually, i wrote the above before reading all the quotes. Now im even less interested. His career ops is .826, not the 1.0 whatever it is this year. Hed have to do this year in year out to be a premiere player with his missed time and now poor (if any) defense. Hes now done it for about a season counting his padres run. Nice, but eh..
As for wright.. Id barely be able to stand letting wright go a second inning (after narrowly avoiding disaster) if the bullpen was tired. But with expanded rosters on the day after an off day.. come on.
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Sep 20, 2008 10:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
to Milton Bradley :
Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
Let the Maximilliano era begin.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 20, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Max Ram needs to be a full time catcher
here or elsewhere.
If we put him at DH I will be very sad.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
whys that?
i dont think he’s a bad defensive catcher, but isn’t the best either. his bat is clearly his largest asset.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 20, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because an average defensive catcher with a possible 300/400/500 bat is a true asset, the sort of asset a team should never turn away
and a possible 300/400/500 bat as a DH is nice, but not the sort of thing that can dramatically change a franchise’s future outlook.
If there’s any possible way to work in Max’s bat at the catcher’s spot, then you have to do it.
Refer back to the “Salty at first base” arguments from last year. It’s the same basic argument about maximizing the offensive value of the players you have by playing them at the most valuable defensive position they can play reasonably well.
Also, you never turn a young guy into a DH unless his crumb bum defense forces you to. Max ain’t Pudge back there, but he’s not Craig Wilson, either.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
max
i agree with your points, but i just dont see him being out teagarden or salty for the starting spot.
but really a platoon probably isnt the best thing for any of these young catchers
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 20, 2008 6:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Max
is one of your 9 best offensive players, but not one of your 8 best defenders, then he should be the DH.
You act like the DH must be incapable of wearing a glove and that isn’t the case.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 21, 2008 12:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kevin Millwood challenged to arrive to camp in better shape?
But he’s a kickboxer extraordinaire remember?
My sources have told me that he chose kickboxing as his martial art to keep his hands free so that he could hold the box of krispy kreme donuts.
This winter try Jiu-Jitsu and put the donuts down fat ass! Nolan is onto you!!
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 10:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
by all accounts millwood came to camp in great shape; his injuries don’t seem to be related to that. I like the fact that some ultimatums are offered but his presence at the meeting in this instance is overblown….
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 11:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
everything is relative..
Millwood came to camp in “better” shape than last year of course last year he was called out on it several times by Evan Grant and others. So maybe he went from being in horrible shape to decent shape “relative” to where he was the year before.
I’ve seen him in person this year walking around with his shorts on before games.. I would not say the man is in “great shape” if he was this would not still be a bone of contention. As far as the injuries not being related I don’t think either one of us can say that for sure. If you show up in great shape you most likely are going to have less injuries. We all know that has NOT been the case.
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 11:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry man
but i recall the stories of him being in the best shape he has been in years. The problem this year was age not weight. If you want to harp on people being chunky, which doesnt necessarily bear any relation to whether they pitch well or not, maybe you should be calling out padilla or madrigal or Franky…? I think you can say that this year his injuries were not related to his weight; don’t let your millwood hate obscure that simple fact.
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
honestly...
I don’t really care if Padilla or Frankie are fat, they got the job done a lot better than Millwood did. They aren’t the ones getting called out for being “out of shape” AGAIN.
There is a lot more to being in shape than having a 32 inch waist. The more important aspect of being in shape is going out there and getting the job done.. Millwood seemed to be laboring through an awful lot of innings this year.
If there wasn’t an issue with it it would not still be a discussion point amongst the Rangers brass. Call Nolan Ryan what you want but at least give the man credit for knowing what kind of shape it takes to have a lasting and productive career.
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you still havent addressed the primary issue with Millwood
it is age and not weight. His leg problems indicate to me that he needs a different program that focus on his legs and not just his gut. And comparing anyone to nolan is just off base; no one pitches until their 50. He is a freak of nature plain and simple. His atavistic exhortations to be tougher are just so much dribble….
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 12:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, he's getting paid a lot of money
to be an effective pitcher.
If that requires that he tailor his workouts to his position’s needs, then that would be the bare minimum that you could expect from someone.
Good physical conditioning is just the beginning: it allows you to be in a position to succeed, but doesn’t guarantee anything.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
One job the rangers staff has
is to design an off-season (and in-season) program to address conditioning and health issues; if he has continued to have leg problems then they have to shoulder some of the blame right?
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
YES
but it is up to the player to actually do these things..They can’t follow each player around in the off-season can they?
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Millwood is notorious
for being lazy and hating to run, the Rangers trainer has basically said as much. The dude had some pictures taken while at a kickboxing studio, then Grant wrote the fluff piece. Millwood wasn’t in shape this year, and he hasn’t been in shape since he’s been with the Rangers.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 20, 2008 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the truth
that nobody is willing to admit.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly..glad someones payiing attention...
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 12:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Great example for the shorties, Millie.
What a leader.
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 22, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Much ado about not much
I’m starting to get anti knee-jerk-itis on this issue. I’ve been saying for a while now that Millwood has been one of the unluckiest pitchers in baseball this year.
FIP 4.13
xFIP 4.37
His K rate, BB rate, IF rate and HR rate are all better than last year (when he was also unlucky enough to pitch in front of a horrible defense). Millwood ranks as the 2nd unluckiest pitcher in the AL this year. Interestingly, Galarraga ranks as the 2nd luckiest, according to THT.
Millwoods FIP is just behind Matsuzaka’s, identical to Matt Garza’s and better than John Lackey’s. Millwood is being scapegoated.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 22, 2008 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FIP
Millwoods FIP is just behind Matsuzaka’s, identical to Matt Garza’s and better than John Lackey’s.
Do you think this could tell us more about the stat than about those particular pitchers? I’m skeptical about how robust FIP is for a couple of reasons. One is the multipliers that are used “to make things look right”, the other is the fact that this index seems to thing that most of the good pitchers are lucky. Couldn’t it also be that these pitchers are actually good, instead of lucky, and the algorithm is faulty?
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 22, 2008 10:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
for example
If you look at the FIP-ERA you see the following pitchers with greater than -0.4 differential, which would be interpreted as being “lucky”:
Dice-K
John Lackey
Johan Santana
Jake Peavey
Cole Hamels
Matt Garza
Felix Hernandez
Matt Garza
Those are some very good pitchers with track records, I have a hard time believing a contrived stat that tells me that group is lucky, rather than good.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 22, 2008 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
If those guys, year-in and year-out, consistently outperform their FIP, then you’d have a point.
That’s not the case, though.
This is just an extrapolation of the whole DIPS theory, and the idea that pitchers have little control over whether a ball in play goes for a hit…and thus, when a pitcher is having success because of an exceptionally low BABIP, that’s something that’s generally not sustainable.
I don’t see that that is particularly contrived, or even that controversial.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2008 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And coincidentally
Millwood has unlucky numbers ever since becoming a Rangers, whereas with Cleveland in 2005 he was a tad lucky. He is not a dramatically different pitcher now than he was in 2005, with the exception of a declining K rate (6 per 9 instead of 7.)
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 22, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
DIPS theory
I thought it was considered quite controversial, and I thought that McCracken has since backed off his original assertions.
And elite pitchers like Santana, Peavy, Hamels, Webb, Lackey, and Oswalt all have career ERA significantly better than career FIP, so there is at least some anecdotal evidence that this metric discredits elite pitchers as “lucky”.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 22, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
I thought it was considered quite controversial, and I thought that McCracken has since backed off his original assertions.
It was, and it has been shown that McCracken’s original, more extreme position was probably overstated. However, the underlying premise — that pitchers generally have little control over whether balls in play go for hits, and that
And elite pitchers like Santana, Peavy, Hamels, Webb, Lackey, and Oswalt all have career ERA significantly better than career FIP, so there is at least some anecdotal evidence that this metric discredits elite pitchers as "lucky".
Actually, it is generally less luck than defense. I saw you elsewhere in this thread dismiss the possibility that defense should be considered when talking about pitchers on the same team, because they have the same defense behind them. However, I doubt you’d say that you can look at wins with pitchers on the same team and ignore discrepencies in run support because, after all, they have the same hitters hitting for them, so if one pitcher gets more run support than the other it is probably something good he’s doing.
As for your contention, I don’t know where you are getting your numbers from, but Oswalt has a 3.30 FIP vs. a 3.12 ERA, which isn’t a big discrepancy. He’s also had one of the best defensive shortstops in baseball history playing behind him for much of his career.
Santana has a 3.14 ERA vs. a 3.35 FIP. Again, not a huge difference, and he’s spent most of his career in Minnesota, which generally has run strong defensive teams out there.
Peavy has a 3.24 ERA vs. a 3.49 FIP, which again, isn’t a huge difference. And of course, Peavy has pitched for the Padres, which have generally had strong defenses.
Hamels has a 3.82 FIP vs. a 3.44 ERA, which isn’t a huge spread, and prior to this year, he had a higher ERA than FIP…only this year has he flip-flopped those numbers.
Webb had a 3.49 to 3.23 FIP v. ERA…again, about .25 of a run.
Lackey has a 3.75 ERA vs. a 3.82 FIP. Basically the same.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 22, 2008 4:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FIP-ERA discrepency
I guess you are right that most of those discrepencies aren’t that significant, less than 10% in most of those cases.
Actually, it is generally less luck than defense. I saw you elsewhere in this thread dismiss the possibility that defense should be considered when talking about pitchers on the same team, because they have the same defense behind them. However, I doubt you’d say that you can look at wins with pitchers on the same team and ignore discrepencies in run support because, after all, they have the same hitters hitting for them, so if one pitcher gets more run support than the other it is probably something good he’s doing.
I don’t think this is an appropriate comparison. Run scoring is completely separate from anything the pitcher does (in the AL), so run support is completely independent of the pitcher. On the other hand, run prevention is a function of both the pitcher and the defense. If, over the course of 30-35 starts in a year, the same defensive players produce significantly better results preventing runs for one pitcher, rather than another, I’d guess that there is a very real possibility that the pitcher is having some influence on that aspect of run prevention.
I don’t think you can completely seperate the pitching and the defense in terms of run prevention.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 22, 2008 5:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm certainly not saying
Millwood is better than Lackey, or that FIP is the be all and end all. I’m just trying to stem the tar and feather crowd a bit. Millwood has obviously not been as bad as his plain ERA indicates. He has not been good, but people are acting as if he not only sucks, but doesn’t even care. They have moved on to personal attacks instead of just critiquing his performance and it’s pile on time.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 22, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Precisely.
My original point was that Millwood’s been pretty okay during his tenure here. Not great, but certainly nothing to complain about. A veteran LAIE is a nice thing to have.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 22, 2008 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defense
might be a bigger crisis than pitching right now. I wonder what the team FIP and xFIP are…holy crap, the team FIP is 4.86. Not great, but a whole hell of a lot better than the 5.45 ERA and only 0.53 worse than league average.
How to fix the Rangers: Improve defense to league average. Threaten to shoot any pitcher who walks in a run. Make deal with devil for team health.
Done.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 22, 2008 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Which is why I’m so keen on getting Franchise Face to 3b and Hambone to a COF spot for next year so we can bring premium defenders in to man those spots. The improvements that we could see defensively could be freaking huge even if we’d take a hit offensively.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 23, 2008 1:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, most metrics I've seen
have us and the Yankees giving away the most due to Defense.
Their is a reason I’ve been thinking a good glove, no bat SS like Adam Everett or Cesar Izturis may be better than getting a good hitting 3B who can’t field, and keeping FoTF at SS. Our up the middle defense of FoTF, Kinsler, and even Hamilton just isn’t very good.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Sep 23, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is Millwood's responsibility, ultimately
He needs to do whatever it takes.
The problem is, he may have nothing left — to the point where even if he did come into camp next season — we could still see a below league average pitcher.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milwood's FIP his three years here: 3.87, 4.55, 4.10
I know FIP isn’t a perfect stat, but it does illuminate some things, like that Millwood is much better than people give him credit for. A close look at his stats seems to indicate that he’s suffered from some really shitty defense (or "luck").
If you wanna argue he needs to be in better shape and lose the gut, that’s fine. But I don’t understand this idea that everyone has about how bad he sucks. With a good defense behind him (and in a park that doesn’t allow so may homers to LHH’s) he’s at worst a LAIE and possibly more than that.
What makes you think he’s so bad?
Am I missing something about his profile?
Or is it just frustration?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's an expensive LAIE
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
8.5 this year, 11 next and 12 in ’10 if his option vests or we pick it up. (plus the deferred signing bonus which muddles things a bit.)
That’s really pretty cheap for a FA signing with his sorts of numbers. FA pitchers are expensive and it’s particularly expensive to bring them in here.
Like I said below, if we had a league average defense and 5 Kevin Millwood’s (read: LAIE’s) in the rotation, we are probably in the playoffs this year.
We’re always talking about the need to bring in solid LAIE’s, and then when we do we all just sit around and hate on them cause a) our crappy defense makes them look shitty and b) they rock a beer gut like it’s going out of style.
You wanna attack someone for licking butt crack at baseball, attack Padzilla. What a steaming pile of crap that guy has been. 4.26, 5.26, 5.10 FIP the last three years, and yet I hear from a lot of people around here that Millwood sucks and that we’d be lucky to be able to give him away this off season but Padzilla is pretty okay and we should hold on to him unless we’re blown away.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
MIllwood and Padilla pitch in front of the same defense
so I don’t see any need to use contrived fielding independent stats to compare the two.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 20, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milly and Pad
Millwood has been one of the unluckiest pitchers in all of baseball, and Padilla has been one of the luckier ones. Millwood has taken a lot of shit here, but he has not been nearly so bad as his ERA might indicate. Acceptable? No. But he’s probably example no. 1 of how much defense has hurt the club this year.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 20, 2008 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
W H A T?
his age is the primary issue? He’s not 40 years old!!! He’s 33.
Randy Johnson pitched a masterpiece 2 nights ago at age 45. Come on now!!
You can do better than that…there is a huge differance between a 33 year old and a 50 year old. We aren’t talking about a 50 year old like you say…yes he needs to work on his legs that is all part of proper conditioning which is exactly my point…I was joking about the donuts ..its the conditioning point I’ve been trying to drive home to no avail.
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Padilla is in great shape...........................
Have you ever seen the NFL? offensive or defensive lineman in particular? Being chunky doesn’t mean you’re not in shape.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
well then by that comparison
Millwood has never been out of shape…
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how you can look at Padilla and Millwood
and not tell that Vinny takes fitness MUCH more seriously than Millwood is beyond me.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 20, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a matter of fact
Padilla appears to be one of the fittest pitchers on the entire staff, imo.
Millwood is a goofy ball of dough. Things have to go perfectly for him to have a quality start.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
“goofy ball of dough” well done sir!
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
His groin problems could be the result of his new kickboxing routine...
Ever thought about that?
by oc on Sep 20, 2008 12:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
but does BGL still get to take Akido?
Oh wait, he’s injured too …
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
no because Kickboxing...
and exercising the mid section strenghtens the groin NOT weaken it.
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That may be a plausible argument for someone who consistently trains that way, year in, year out...
…It’s a little hard to believe someone can just start kickboxing and not have those issues.
by oc on Sep 20, 2008 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
thats true Oil Can...
someone who just started kickboxing would not have as strong a groin as someone who’s been doing it for years. Good point…but someone who has been doing to for a few months would have a stronger groin than someone who has never done it at all or was just there for a photo op. :)
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
has been doing it*
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
form factor
maybe he’s doing it wrong?
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 20, 2008 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would guess that someone with all that $$$
would have someone around who knows what the hell they are doing.
I bet he has a great instructor …if he even did it at all.
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have
never taken a kickboxing class but I feel my groin is about as strong as they come.
by rothe on Sep 20, 2008 10:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ultra frequent exercise, eh?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Sep 21, 2008 9:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And good form
to boot, I’ll wager.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 21, 2008 12:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we had five Kevin Millwood's in the rotation
and a league average defense behind them, we’d be a playoff team.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 6:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bradley
i was onboard with bringing him back for a 2-3 year deal but theres no way i’d want them to offer him a long term deal and i’m not sure that any team is going to
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 20, 2008 11:10 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
MIllwood, conditioning and hypocisy
The same guy who made Eric Hurley miss out on a chance to go to the White House can’t be bothered to show up for Spring Training in shape? And is so notorious for such that the team president has to take time out of his schedule to sit him down and say ‘You pitch better when you’re not a lardass. Jon here has science top prove it. For serious.’
by Keynes on Sep 20, 2008 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Amazing you guys keep talking about MaxRam as DH
he is too young to be a DH and right now i do not think he can hit major league pitching, they don’t just throw fast balls in the bigs. if they dont keep MB then they will have to find a DH elsewhere (hopefully a right hander)
by TRFAN on Sep 20, 2008 11:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No they don't...
You don’t go sign a guy to DH when you have the offense the Rangers already have. You let a young kid who can mash get his shot.
You use that $ for pitching.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 20, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chipper Jones..........................................................
Chipper, Duran, and Max can take care of 3B/DH
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mmmm... Larry Wayne Jones
There’ve been pretty steady rumblings about the Braves not bringing him back. I’d pun three newborn babies off a tall bridge to get Chipper in here as a DH on a 2 or 3 year deal. The guy can just plain hit.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 6:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
PunT
damn spell checker never catches those.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 6:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fine
the Rangers are a long shot to seriously contend next year anyway. Let Max spend the year getting his ML legs under him and he’ll be in good shape in 2010. He might be traded anyway depending on how the catcher situation plays out.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 20, 2008 12:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milton says it's not about the money,
it’s about “financial security for his family”, which is obviously completely different from money.
Bradley insists that he doesn’t want a long-term deal just for the money. He said he isn’t motivated to play for money, although he wants to have the financial security to take care of his family.
“My mom worked 35 years as a grocery clerk,” Bradley said. "She never had a vacation. She was on her feet all day, and now she needs a knee replacement. She worked on her feet for all those years to give me an opportunity to do whatever I wanted to do in my life. Now, she deserves to relax.
“And I want to provide the best environment for my son [Jeremiah Christian]. I want my son to have everything I never had. I want him to experience things that I never got to experience. It’s not just about the money.”
I guess the $5 million he made this year wasn’t enough for him to pay a few hundred bucks a month for his mom to have health insurance. This is a pet peeve of mine, athletes making multi-million dollars complaining like they can’t afford things like health insurance for his mom, and a new ball glove for his son.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 20, 2008 11:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
money
when the government and agents and business managers all take their cuts it doesnt leave nearly as much, and if that money wasnt wisely invested and just spent carelessly i could see how someone could think they are broke.
just look at mike tyson.
and don’t take that as defending someone complaining about making 5mil. a year.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 20, 2008 11:36 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hehehe, reminds me of one of my favorite athletes / quotes
“I have a family to feed.”
- Latrell Sprewell
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha
I remember that as well. Apparently $17 million is not enough to feed your family.
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Sep 20, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gas prices have gone up a lot recently.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 1:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I gotta eat, right?" -Pedro Martinez
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 22, 2008 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You signed Milton Bradley for one reason
To flip him at the deadline.
You failed.
by SaltyGoesYard on Sep 20, 2008 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
+1 MM
This is disturbing, actually.
I like JD a lot, but he has failed to capitalize this year.
1. Not trading Gerald Laird.
2. Not trading Milton Bradley.
3. Holding out on Guardado.
4. Burning a year of Salty’s development.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, I really only fault him for 4.
There’s no point in dealing Laird at the deadline if you don’t think you’re getting fair value for him. They can and probably will trade him in the offseason. I don’t think his value has changed all that much.
Not trading MB/Guardado I put on Nolan more than JD. How many articles we see stating that JD wanted to sell and Nolan wanted to hold with the intention of making a wild card push?
by LiamP on Sep 20, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Laird sucks.
What is fair value?
What does he do that impresses you, except bunting for a basehit?
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many articles we see stating that JD wanted to sell and Nolan wanted to hold with the intention of making a wild card push?
You’re seriously going to sit there and put all the blame on Nolan?
by oc on Sep 20, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually standing in a line right now.
So, literally speaking, no?
If you read what I said again, I said I put more of the blame on Nolan than JD. That doesn’t mean I absolve JD of all guilt; obviously he was the one who didn’t make a move. Everything that came out after the deadline indicates that Nolan was the one in favor of holding.
by LiamP on Sep 20, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And number 4 has nothing to do with Daniels anyway.
Saltalamacchia was going to get his playing time squeezed one way or the other.
Either he was going to share playing time with Laird in the bigs or with Teagarden at Oklahoma City.
by oc on Sep 20, 2008 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
with your assertion that he would split time with Tea in OKC.
By that point, Salty was still a premium prospect and mashing in AAA. T2 would have had to wait or be a complete back-up. How the tables have turned, it’s now looking the other way around. That’s why I fear Saltalamacchia will be dealt. Just when he was beginning to turn a corner, he goes down, along with his value.
Goddamn. They should have given Salty his AB’s this year, one way or another. I wish his dad would chime in, but I bet he’s too pissed himself.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're assuming Teagarden would have played half of this season in Frisco.
I don’t think that would have happened.
by oc on Sep 20, 2008 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could have split a quarter backing up Salty
that wouldn’t have hindered his development really. Back-up C / DH, bring up Salty right before OMFT is traded.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it doesnt matter that TT is 2 years older than Salty
and to continue to hold him at a lower level or not giving him significant PT would hurt his value more than anything that has happened to Salty this year?
by laxtonto on Sep 20, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does matter
It makes Salty the superior prospect and a higher priority.
T2 and his .584 OPS could have warmed up just fine in AA.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it doesn't
The fact that Salty is two years younger than Teagarden doesn’t make him the superior prospect and higher priority, just like the fact Marcus Lemon is two years younger than Jose Vallejo doesn’t make him the superior prospect and higher priority.
I do not think it was unreasonable for one to believe, at the beginning of this season, that Teagarden was a better prospect than Salty.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I agree
I think they promoted him when they did to help get him out of his funk in AA and that likely would have happened even if Salty would have been in AAA at the time
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you said:
How many articles we see stating that JD wanted to sell and Nolan wanted to hold with the intention of making a wild card push?
I didn’t see those articles, have a link?
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 20, 2008 12:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I recall this also
and am searching for links / threads.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's one that I specifically remember.
It was part of a piece written before the deadline by Joel Sherman. Only reason I remember it is because I’m sure it was posted here.
by LiamP on Sep 20, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
See below. Ayjayem found it.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give me a second.
This is going to take fucking forever on an iphone
by LiamP on Sep 20, 2008 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember one
which said that Nolan was disappointed that we didn’t make a trade to help the wild card push which meant that he advocated trading away top prospects to get a rental in service of that untenable idea( that this is a playoff club). I credit Daniels for not trading for rentals and not selling low.
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if bradley becomes a type A
this winter and signs somewhere else I think that is a good enough return on him…
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would have been nice...
if he could have accomplished those things. However who knows what he was offered for them. Would you have just given those guys away? I think that is why they are still here. Not much was offered in terms of a deal for OMFT, Board Game, or Eddie G.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 20, 2008 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1., 3.
I’d a loved if they’d dealt Milton and given his ABs to Max, but I don’t think there was a market for Milton (nor did EG) and then Max got hurt.
Laird’s injury in Washington also damaged his trade value terribly, though I’d say he’s built it back. This winter he’ll be about equal to this past June, value-wise.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 20, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
milton
i really don’t think that the market for him was what jd wanted in return.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 20, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The additon of Manny to the Market kinda screwed the weak Milton Markett aswell..
With Bos holding Pit hostage right till the deadline, TB didn’t get to get into the Milton Bidding because they were waiting on the Bay deal.
Milton really never a market because NYY, Bos, LAA, and CHW weren’t options. That left TB and Minn as fits as a DH/OF and Ariz , LAD and NYM as OF.
The NL teams had concerns as Milton as a OF, and Min and TB didn’t or couldn’t get a deal done.
by laxtonto on Sep 20, 2008 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
failed to capitalize?
You don’t make a trade just for the sake of making one. The deal wasn’t there.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 20, 2008 12:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far as you know.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question is...
…what was out there on July 31 for Laird and Bradley?
And is it possible that the Rangers might be better off with Laird back here next year, possibly splitting time with Teagarden, for example, with Saltalamacchia dealt?
Is dumping Laird for whatever is on the table at the deadline really the best way to go, regardless?
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly
an AL team could have used a Milton Bradley in their clean-up spot. Are you happy to collect draft picks?
I don’t know if Evan Grant is looking for questions for his latest newsletter, but I think it would behoove him to shed some light on the mid-season shenanigans (i.e. who was available for what; which offers were considered heavily, etc.).
I think Laird is what he is. His value won’t be any higher and is lower than it was at the deadline, imo. Salty should be kept, imo, because his value is lowest. Teagarden seems to be the one who might acquire the best pitcher.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 1:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What A.L. team are you referring to?
There was pretty extensive talk leading up to the deadline that there wasn’t much interest in Bradley, particularly given his reputation and health history. I think it makes more sense to hang on to him than get some grade-C prospect for him…but then, I also think there’s value in winning down the stretch, rather than rolling over and tanking for draft picks.
As far as Laird, I doubt his value is materially lower now than it was at the deadline.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah that makes little sense
to say that Lairds value is lower. I think he can fetch more during the winter meetings than he would have at the deadline as there will be more competition and team needs will be more clearly articulated at that time.
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The illusion of contention
again, I’m trying to find that article you posted about how Nolan was chasing the WC berth.
You don’t think JD could have forced Bradley to a team like the Rays? He was the best hitter in the league. I’d have to think he’d fetch more than a grace-C prospect.
The whole point with Bradley was to flip him. Now we’re coming away with type B picks and further evaluation of Nelson Cruz.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
First, I don’t think the whole point with signing Bradley was to flip him.
Second, the D-Rays have made it a point lately to cut ties with guys seen as problems and added Cliff Floyd, in part, because they felt he’d be a stabilizing veteran influence. I’m not sure how much they’d have really been willing to give up to add Bradley, who is viewed, rightly or wrongly, as a headcase, and who has a history of breaking down.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The article
Milton Bradley, Rangers – An AL official said the rise in prominence of Texas president Nolan Ryan has affected the switch-hitting Bradley’s availability. According to this official, Rangers GM Jon Daniels still is under the belief Texas should be in rebuilding mode and should translate a low-cost-gamble-turned-good such as Bradley into more long-term pieces. But the Rangers are four games over .500, six out of the wild card and have several injured pitchers ready to return, and because of all of that Ryan does not want to concede the 2008 season.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
This whole argument is giving me tired head. Weren’t you ready to concede the season, Adam? I remember that you never bought the whole “we’re in a pennant chase” koolaid.
What was the point of signing Milton Bradley?
We were clearly in the 1st year of rebuilding, with the target date set for ‘10 (but realistically ’12), and we take a flyer on Milton Bradley. Ok, he puts up an injury-riddled, yet dominant season and walks. If he isn’t in the long-term plans and doesn’t yield anything in the long-term plans, then that’s signing somebody for the sake of signing somebody.
The Sideshow ticket seller of ’08, I suppose. Hopefully Bonds will be available for next year.
Why bother?
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The point of signing Milton Bradley...
…was to bring in someone on a one year deal who has the potential to be very good.
He was very good this season. He helped the team win some games. He might be back next season. If not, he’ll probably fetch a draft pick or two.
What’s wrong with that?
And as for the rest, I’m not sure what you expected in terms of dealing him. Only A.L. contenders would be interested.
Anaheim wasn’t going to trade for him.
Chicago has a great DH already.
Minnesota could have had some interest, but given the way they do things up there, probably weren’t going to be all that keen on bringing someone like Bradley on board.
New York had various beaten up veteran positional players to DH for them.
Boston has Ortiz.
Tampa we talked about.
Basically, you are banking on either Minnesota or Tampa deciding they needed to have Bradley, and being willing to part with good young talent to add a guy with a history of clubhouse and injury issues.
There just wasn’t a match out there for dealing Bradley this summer.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
they shouldn’t have signed him at all then.
Take that $5M and find somebody who WILL be healthy enough to play the field and be a tradeable asset. Otherwise, find out about Nelson Cruz.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
You think signing Milton Bradley this past offseason was a mistake?
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can't flip him what's the point
Should we sign him on a one-year deal for next year, not trade him, and let him walk?
What’s the point.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
Any player signed for one year who isn’t traded during the season is a failed signing?
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nothing failed about it
just no net difference. It’s a lateral move.
With the attendance numbers floating in, it may have actually backfired.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Backfired how?
Do you think Bradley being here resulted in fewer people attending?
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Bradley was a big name that could potentially sell tickets.
Unfortunately, attendance was down this year, IIRC.
I don’t attribute that to Bradley, directly, but the unstable health of the team might influence some fans’ attendance.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think anyone ever expected Bradley's "big name" to sell tickets
Winning sells tickets. The promise of future winning that’s bubbling up from down on the famr might keep us happy, but it does nothing to put butts in the seats. If you’re making the “buts in seats” argument about MOB’s signing, then you’d have to put it squarely in the plus column since I don’t think there’s anyway you could possibly argue MOB didn’t help make us a better team this season and therefore win more games than we would have without him.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 7:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What does the Bradley signing accomplish though
I fail to see how it isn’t a lateral move.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 21, 2008 4:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm equating it to the Sosa signing
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sosa was outstanding against LHP
not his fault Worsh used him against RHP.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley has been outstanding overall
And Sosa was brought here, supposedly, to be the regular DH, not the short-side of a platoon.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 20, 2008 4:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Bradley was essentially brought here to be the regular DH.
I would have liked the signing a lot more if it took place after 2008. Then, we could have a better idea of whether he could play the field because I used to think he was an excellent fielder — both range and arm.
A healthy Milton gets a longer deal, but I’m not sure if that exists.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on. This is the NY Post.
I’m not defending Ryan. But there’s no direct quote in here.
New York City… the world capitol of spin.
by oc on Sep 20, 2008 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
if Bradley is a Type A
and with what JD has been able to do in recent drafts, I think keeping Bradley was definitely the right choice especially if there was no one offering anything anywhere close to equal value.
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Sep 20, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the tiger's blog projection
if accurate, shows him, what, like .15 points away from Type A so I think that it might happen…
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've never answered my question
What makes you think he’ll go from being a type A last off season to being a type B this off season after he had a monster year?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blaming Daniels
for Salty’s shitty year makes no sense as does the claim that someone playing in 100 AAA games would have been the magic pill to becoming an uber prospect again; he is no longer an uber propect…
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're very likely going to get two DP's for him this off season
so that wouldn’t be a fail.
And also… I mean the guy did tear up the league. Is it ever really a failure when the guy turns in a super beastly performance like Milt did this year? I know it’s a rebuilding year and all that, but it’s still nice to sign a guy for cheap and have him ownership the league.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 6:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if they did not buy gold plated hummers and 3 pound gold chains
maybe they could make it on a couple of mill a year, i do believe i could, since i don’t need that Hum V or the gold chain, these dudes are always crying they don’t have enough, try living in my world.
by TRFAN on Sep 20, 2008 11:43 AM CDT reply actions 2 recs
You know....
“they” and “these dudes”
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 20, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
Who rec’d this flaming pile of stupid?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lame.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 7:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis in winter ball
I don’t see the need for this, though I guess it won’t hurt him. I’d rather he just go to AZ and work on 1B some more.
Don't you know it's gonna be alright?
by t ball on Sep 20, 2008 12:45 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah that was weird
It only makes sense if they want him to work on 3b fundamentals…
by Goyogringo on Sep 20, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone like the idea of bringing in Chipper?
to DH/3B… Max DH’ing when Chipper plays 3rd, and Duran playing 3rd when Chipper DH’s. Chipper is the type of player this team lacks.. the guy who has been there, seen everything.
by tyd3311 on Sep 20, 2008 12:56 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No thanks.
Did Ben survive the hurricane?
by Chase Irwin on Sep 20, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm... Por Que?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 20, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
that may be brian jordan all over again.
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
by hinduplaya on Sep 20, 2008 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
requires ATL not picking up Chippers options
so in other words, he wont be a FA
by laxtonto on Sep 20, 2008 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, all you guys do is bicker.
give it a rest already. You guys are basing your opinions on something YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.
1. You don’t know what was available for our players at the deadline
2. You don’t know what Ryan is thinking
If Ryan does decide to fire JD, talk about it then. There has been NOTHING to state that he is in fact canning him so why talk about it over and over and over and over and over again.
by Coolbean04 on Sep 20, 2008 2:27 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
in all fairness
what else is there to really talk about when it comes to the rangers this time of year?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 20, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
if this was a new conversation. The only problem is we have talked about this very same issue a numerous of times.
It’s like us talking about Danks or the SD trade. Let it go.
by Coolbean04 on Sep 20, 2008 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have to let anything go.

Three decades running and this problem has yet to be resolved.
by oc on Sep 20, 2008 2:46 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahahaha
Steal Home R.I.P. 9/10/08
by LAMuscleFag on Sep 20, 2008 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
bullpen usage:
compare this
rupe:
28 times from behind
6 times tied
9 times when were ahead
15 times when -2, -1, tied, +1, +2 runs (2 when ahead)
jamey wright:
22 times from behind
10 times tied
40 times ahead
43 times when -2, -1, tied, +1, +2 runs
madrigal:
11 times when -2, -1, tied, +1, +2 runs
francisco:
39 times when -2, -1, tied, +1, +2 runs (32 when tied, +1, +2)
guardado:
38 times when -2, -1, tied, +1, +2 runs (33 when tied, +1, +2)
CJ:
34 times when -2, -1, tied, +1, +2 runs (32 when tied, +1, +2)
benoit:
25 times when -2, -1, tied, +1, +2 runs (19 times when tied, +1, +2)
close game usage:
wright – 43 (72 games)
guardado – 33 (55 games)
cj – 32 (50 games)
francisco – 32 (55 games)
benoit – 19 (44 games)
rupe – 15 (43 games)
madrigal – 11 (28 games)
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 20, 2008 4:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So...
Is Adam still updating this blog? Game day threads are lame…
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 22, 2008 9:30 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
AJM does a great job
as do many of the contributors here, but at this point it seems there isn’t much for any of us to say – we’ve covered everything more than a few times and it’s a little early for hot stove talk.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 22, 2008 9:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, hurricane Ike?
Adam lives in Houston. You might want to cut him just a bit of slack for the moment.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 22, 2008 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on...
the battle for second place starts today. I don’t care if you don’t have power because of a stupid hurricane. Hook up the generator to blog dammit.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 22, 2008 5:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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