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Charting the organization - Outfield

Previous positions:
First Base
Second Base
Shortstop
Third Base
Catcher

This position took one of the biggest leaps forward at the major league level in 2008, largely because of the acquisition of Josh Hamilton. David Murphy, Marlon Byrd and Nelson Cruz all have performed well, and Brandon Boggs showed some promise after getting a quick call from AAA. In the minors, the story is all about two more center fielders, Julio Borbon and Engel Beltre. Of those seven, only Byrd, Cruz and Boggs were in the organization prior to the 2007 trade deadline just over a year ago. 

Depth Chart:
Texas (MLB) - Josh Hamilton, David Murphy, Marlon Byrd, Nelson Cruz, Brandon Boggs, Milton Bradley (DH)
Oklahoma - Ben Harrison, John Mayberry, Jason Ellison
Frisco (AA) - Steve Murphy, Julio Borbon, Dustin Majewski
Bakersfield (A+) - KC Herren, Grant Gerrard, Truan Mehl
Clinton (A) - Engel Beltre, Tim Smith, Cristian Santana
Spokane (A-) - Mike Bianucci, David Paisano, Eric Fry
AZL (RK) - Adam Cobb, Chris Dove, James McGraw
DSL (RK) - Ariel Ventura, Edward Ceballo, Juan Polanco

Top OF prospects:
1. Engel Beltre - tools galore, has about four years to get to Borbon's level and that intriguing power potential
2. Julio Borbon - nice first season, especially at the AA level...can hit but needs to drastically improve walk rate to be a quality player
3. John Mayberry - started so well at AAA but faded as the year went on...has become just another face in a crowded franchise
4. Mike Bianucci - gets the edge on Tim Smith because of extra power
5. Ben Harrison - inability to handle AAA at age 26 makes this dubious, but big league club has sucked up the OF depth in the system

Star-divide

Top OF prospects in baseball (loosely ordered): 
Travis Snider TOR, Jason Heyward ATL, Colby Rasmus STL, Cameron Maybin FLA, Andrew McCutchen PIT, Dexter Fowler COL, Mike Stanton FLA, Aaron Hicks MIN, Ben Revere MIN, Greg Halman SEA, Fernando Martinez NYM, Austin Jackson NYY, Gorkys Hernandez ATL, Jordan Schafer ATL, Desmond Jennings TB, Chris Carter OAK, Andrew Lambo LAD, Jose Tabata PIT, Michael Saunders SEA, Engel Beltre TEX

Top OF organizations:
1. Arizona - Adam Dunn, Justin Upton, Chris Young, Eric Byrnes
2. Cleveland - Grady Sizemore, Shin Soo Choo, Ben Francisco, Matt LaPorta
3. Detroit - Magglio Ordonez, Curtis Granderson, Matt Joyce, Marcus Thames
4. Colorado - Matt Holliday, Brad Hawpe, Ryan Spilborghs, Seth Smith, Dexter Fowler
5. Baltimore - Nick Markakis, Adam Jones, Luke Scott, Nolan Reimold

Where the Rangers fit:
There is no clear cut group in baseball that stands out above the rest. Like more teams than not, Texas has one standout player (not including Bradley since he's almost exclusively a DH) and like several teams they have a couple more nice players. Neither Borbon nor Beltre are elite prospects at this point, but they make Texas one of about seven organizations with two very nice outfield prospects.

2009 outlook:
While Bradley is not an outfielder moving forward, he may affect the situation, since his presence uses up the DH spot (when he's healthy). The same could potentially be true of Frank Catalanotto, though his bat has regressed and the rest of the roster has progressed to the point that only money could keep him in Arlington. I plan on operating under the assumption that Bradley is not with the team and that Catalanotto doesn't impact playing time too heavily, whether that means an outfielder or someone like Max Ramirez, Hank Blalock, or a new incarnation of Milton Bradley gets the bulk of the DH time. Cruz is the next large variable, and his excellent September seems to have him back in the picture. Byrd and Murphy have both had solid seasons and figure to play at least half time.

That leaves Boggs as the odd man out, at least in terms of playing time, but I don't see that as a big problem. If there are enough at-bats (including DH ones) to warrant a fifth outfielder, he is on the roster and filling that role. If there aren't, he did not get to play much in AAA and has only hit .229 in the majors. He has options and can be a shuttle guy. If Cruz proves to be fools gold, Boggs takes his spot and becomes the #4 guy.

Similar to the infield outlook keying on when/if Elvis Andrus can take over at shortstop, the dynamics in the outfield could change quite a bit if Borbon develops into a legitimate center fielder. To me, whether he can do that is much more in question than in Andrus' case, but he's also more likely to see meaningful playing time in the majors in 2009 than Elvis. If Borbon were to take over center field, Hamilton would move to a seemingly favored right field spot (or maybe left field if Cruz establishes himself), and at least as far as outfield spots go, the others are all looking at one position to share. I could see a situation forming where Borbon is ready about the time that Byrd is a free agent, and Muphy and Cruz potentially being platoon partners in a corner. Again though, none of that is too certain because Borbon is no sure thing, at least in my eyes, to become a major league starter. One other thing to keep in mind, if Hamilton, Borbon and Murphy became the three regular outfielders, is the lefty/righty situation. At the least guys like Boggs, Cruz and maybe Mayberry could be handy in offsetting a matchup nightmare with a team like the A's.

Engel Beltre represents the potential next big thing positionally in the Texas system. His upside easily eclispes Borbon's, but he has a huge hole in his game that must be closed before he can become that next guy in the line of Juan Gonzalez, Sammy Sosa, Pudge Rodriguez, Ruben Mateo, Hank Blalock, Mark Teixeira, Carlos Pena, and Chris Davis. His BB/SO ratio this season was 15/105, and even repeated benchings for his poor approach at the plate didn't make much of an impact, though he did at least walk five times in August. He'll likely be in High A as a 19 year old next year, as he still hit .283 with 43 XBH in Low A as an 18 year old and was a midseason top 100 prospect according to BA.

Aside from Borbon, Beltre and the enigma that is John Mayberry, the outfield pickins are pretty slim. Mitch Moreland could see time in the outfield since he figures to be on the same roster as Justin Smoak (and Beltre), but I have a bit of a hard time projecting him there long term. At any rate, his bat looks more promising than anyone else at the position. Another positional question mark is Cristian Santana, who might need to repeat Low A after a season that looked very similar to Beltre's but with a batting average about 50 points lower. It would be good news to see him back at catcher, but I don't get the impression that this is a certainty. Mike Bianucci had a nice summer, following a good season in the Cape with a .316/.386/.535 line in 31 games for Spokane. That usually leads to a jump to High A for college players, but depth chart issues could send him to Low A. There is a thought that Clark Murphy could get a look in the outfield, but like Moreland, my impression is that he's probably only going to wind up back at first base anyway.

4 recs | Comment 86 comments

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Moreland

Newberg said he’s pitching this winter, iirc… Even if true it’s unclear whether that’s the long-term prognosis.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 22, 2008 6:48 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

Even with that knowledge Jamey ranked him as a 1B/RF.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 22, 2008 6:52 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Borbon is no sure thing"

You said it, Jack…

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 22, 2008 6:49 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm bullish on Borbon

unlike some people, I didn’t let my fear that the Rangers would pick him at #17 bias my opinion of their picking him at #35. :)

No prospect is a sure thing, and no one is saying he should be in BA’s top 30 or anything like that. He’s a legit CFer though, who has enough bat skills to be a solid major league player. I see him as a Juan Pierre type, except with the ability to, you know, actually field, throw, and hit the ball.

I know he probably makes your Moneyball insides churn with disgust, and I can understand that. But one of the key points to Moneyball was that toolsy guys like Borbon are overvalued. And you know what, I want overvalued guys in my organization as trade chips. Better than Oakland’s approach of drafting undervalued guys into their system. Because when you decide you don’t have a spot for your Jeremy Brown, guess what? No one else wants him either…

by JBImaknee on Sep 23, 2008 11:47 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

overvalue/undervalue

Oakland has not had too much of a problem finding trade partners for their “undervalued” players.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 23, 2008 12:07 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm talking about their prospects...

Certainly they have been able to trade Dan Haren (who was never considered undervalued when acquired for Mulder) and Nick Swisher (who was never considered undervalued in that Moneyball draft).

by JBImaknee on Sep 23, 2008 12:22 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice write up.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 22, 2008 7:08 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mayberry; Moreland

I was really crossing my fingers that he had figured something out this summer. If he had spent the entire season hitting like that they’d have a pleasant problem on their hands. At the very least Mayberry would have been a nice trade chip. As it is, he’s less of a known quantity than Botts or Cruz were a year ago.

I’d really like them to give Moreland a chance in RF. I think might be good enough to be league average there someday, and he can always move back to 1B without difficulty. But an organization so bereft of corner guys needs a shot in the arm if they can get it. I was disappointed he didn’t get challenged with a promotion this year.

One of the things I’d really like to see next year is one of the guys in the lower levels bust out and become a legit prospect. Bianucci, Fry, Cobb, it would be awesome to have one of them suddenly become worth talking about.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 22, 2008 7:53 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Moreland

RF would at least make better use of his arm.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 22, 2008 7:58 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd love to see Paisano

break out like that

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Sep 22, 2008 11:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

outfield futures

Having just made a stab at next years minor league rosters, I also project Bianucci in A+and Smoak to AA. Teixeira appeared in no games the year he was drafted and then spentabout 40 games in A+ and 50 in AA the next year before starting in the majors the following year. With Smoak appearing in about 20 games (including playoffs) coupled with his time in instructionals this fall I think AA would be his likely assignment. That puts Tracy back in LF in A+ and he put together an excellent second have to put up some decent #s. I also think that Murphy would appear in the OF( in spokane) as that was his postion announced at draft time and he is more valuable as a projected RF than a first basemen (especially in this system replete with 1b). I think that Butler and Bolden have promise as well as Alfonso (though the rangers promoted him too quickly to A and he should repeat that league in 09). Other guys who show promise but who need to have good years next year before they fall into the “organizational soldier” role are: Steven Murphy (AAA) and Gerrard (AA) And Gentry (AAA- a superb defensive player in CF who struggles to hit for ave but could make some club as a 4-5 outfielder, def sub and pinch runner). Barto (A) put up some decent #s but I don’t know anything about him. As for Latin american players, lets not forget Pimentel (AZL-invited to instructionals), Teo Martinez (dsl, 08 signee) or that Caballo (RF) had some good buzz after his signing last yr (though he struggled in DSL2). One other guy to consider as a toolsy RF is Velasquez who was suspended this year by the club for some apparently serious infraction. It isnt clear if the rangers will have him back next yr.

So I really like the outfielders in the system with AA as the most apparent weakness in talent but that is balanced by all the AAA prospects who are now candidates for jobs next year (mayberry,borbon, murphy gentry) hand the depth on the big club( murphy, byrd, boggs, Cruz Bradley). Compared to the beginning of the year the OF position is much stronger overall I think.

by Goyogringo on Sep 23, 2008 3:25 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As for Harrison's bat

I’m not so sure all is lost. He only played 26 games there hitting 221 with a drop off in XBH/HR but was the best hitter in the Okc playoffs when everyone else laid an egg. But I will say that next year is his last chance if he doesn’t get selected in the rule 5.

by Goyogringo on Sep 23, 2008 3:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Chad Tracy...

Maybe an oversight, but do you really think Chad Tracy is going to be back at High-A after playing the last 24 games of the year at Frisco and hitting .344/.386/.505 there? I would think that Tracy would certainly be in Double-A playing a corner outfield sport or DH.

Mitch Moreland is somebody who might be in High-A playing a corner outfielder. I asked Jamey Newberg if he thought that Moreland and/or Justin Smoak might start 2009 in Frisco and he said that if either of them started there, he’d be suprised, but he didn’t think is what out of the question.

I'm tired of the suspense. Why won't they just tell us what they mean by "male enhancement?"

by YourNameHere on Sep 23, 2008 3:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah I meant AA tracy

That makes moreland the only choice for 1b in A+ as there are no better candidates and a glut of outfilelders: beltre Bianucci and smith starting; cobb and bulter as backups.

Moreland is old for A+ but they brought him along slower than the normal college hitter due to his lack of at bats coming into pro ball (splitting time pitching in college). So it wouldnt suprise me if one or both started in AA nor would it surpise me if they started in A+. If they started in A+ however, i think it would be for no more than 40 games or so before both are promoted (if they are doing as well as expected).

by Goyogringo on Sep 23, 2008 4:06 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmmm...

Really good stuff as usual, Zebra Cakes.

Although there are plenty of dudes I’d put above Harrison.

Eric Fry, C-Sant, Esdras Abreu, etc.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 22, 2008 8:30 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There have to be some who should be

I didn’t want to double rank Santana, though, That was reserved for Lemon.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 22, 2008 8:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lol

Nice.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 22, 2008 8:48 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Query

how do you define “drastically”? Are we talking about 2? 5? 10%?

by FirebatM3 on Sep 22, 2008 11:18 PM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that he needs to pretty close to double his walks to keep that OBP in the 350+ range, which is what I think he’d need to be a quality player.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 22, 2008 11:57 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So if he hits .300/.335/.400 and provides stellar CF defense, that's not a quality player?

It’s odd to me that so many people on here are fine with the idea of sacrificing offense to get Tea in at catcher rather than Salty or Max, but people seem to hate the idea of sacrificing offense to get a top quality defensive CF’er in here and slide Hambone over to a corner where he belongs.

The difference between average defense and plus defense in CF is much, much greater to me than the difference between average defense and plus defense behind the plate.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 23, 2008 2:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know,

I know he is fast out there, but I’ve also heard he is a fairly average defender, despite his speed. Hope he is better than that.

Once we get to 3 on the list its over.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 23, 2008 8:18 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yah, the D is the key for me

I’m willing to put up with a lot of offensive mediocrity (or even sub-mediocrity) from a CF if he can give me plus defense.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 23, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd like to hear from more who have seen him.

Although its tough to rely on word of mouth for defense. 1 spectacular play can make a defensive reputation. See GMJ, Torii Hunter or Derek Jeter, even if the player isn’t consistently good night in and night out.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 23, 2008 3:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll say this

He looks solid to me, but he isn’t one of those guys that just blows you away visually with his range. That doesn’t mean that he doesn’t have great range, but I get the impression that some here think he’s a freak when it comes to running down balls.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 23, 2008 3:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

if you take MJH too seriously with his vacuum cleaner statements you might get that idea. Mike has a hyperbole factor like Colorado has a park factor. We need to put his comments into a humidor or something.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 23, 2008 4:14 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

heh

very true.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 23, 2008 4:30 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah,

I get the feeling that some are sizing him up for a Gold Glove, and I hear from some pretty savvy fans that he is good, but he isn’t Willie Mays in his prime or anything.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 23, 2008 4:19 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was thinking more along the lines of Kenny Lofton

that’d be more than fine with me.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 23, 2008 7:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lofton was great

In large part because he was on OBP machine. From 1993 to 1999, he had 4 full seasons w/ OBP >.400. If you are expecting that from Borbon, I think you are likely to be disappointed.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 24, 2008 8:21 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think he was speaking

about defensive ability only.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 24, 2008 9:22 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But some people

also have very unrealistic offensive expectations from Borbon.

"Asphalt me, ben. Asphalt me good and hard." - brettgardner

by Chase Irwin on Sep 24, 2008 11:56 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The worst thing about Borbon

is that it might be absolutely crucial he does manage to hit .300 to have that value. A .270 or .280 avg. with few walks might mean he’s only marginally worth playing full time out there, no matter his defense.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 24, 2008 12:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From what I hear

his defense has a long, long way to go to get to Lofton’s in his prime.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 24, 2008 12:23 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok, but

you could have said that about Lofton at Borbon’s current age. He’s not in his prime yet.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 24, 2008 3:32 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Lofton was fairly polished.

out of the gate. He won his first Gold Glove in his 3rd year in the league, and had a reputation for defense in the minors. I haven’t seen Borbon played, but I have heard from folks I trust that he is good, but nothing great defensively. I certainly believe a lot of folks here grossly overrate his defensive ability.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 24, 2008 3:55 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He won his first Gold Glove in his 3rd year in the league

Borbon isn’t even in the league yet. I’m just nitpicking your statement, though, I haven’t seen Borbon have to do anything tremendous the times I was in Frisco this year. Borbon does have a good rep, though I don’t know how it compares to Lofton’s rep in Lofton’s first full year as a pro.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 24, 2008 4:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Plus defense in CF

I don’t think you can be a plus defensive outfielder with a weak arm. Plus range will take away some bases, but a weak arm will give some back.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 23, 2008 8:33 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Borbon weak arm?

I know he’s not Raul Mondesi out there, but he’s not Johnny Damon or Juan Pierre either, is he?

by JBImaknee on Sep 23, 2008 11:49 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I will let others who have seen him play answer this

but what I’ve read and what I’ve been told is that his arm is well below ML average.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 23, 2008 11:55 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I heard it was average

but if he has +range, he can still be a +defensive player. Just look at Johnny damon.

by FirebatM3 on Sep 23, 2008 12:58 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So if Carlos Gomez had a below-average arm...

…he wouldn’t be a plus defensive CF’er?

How good a defensive CF’er do you think one can be with a below-average arm? Average?

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 23, 2008 3:03 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think throwing

is a very important component of OF defense.

A big advantage of having a super speedy CF is that he can cut off balls in either alley before they get to the wall, but that advantage is nullified if the baserunner is going to take an extra base anyway.

I’m not familiar enough with Carlos Gonzalez to answer that question and I guess that a super rangey fly catcher could be a little above average, even with a weak arm, but personally I wouldn’t use “plus” or “gold glove caliber” on a guy that is a below average thrower. I take it you disagree?

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 23, 2008 3:28 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Balls in the alley

Balls in the alley are going to be doubles no matter if they are cut off or not 95% of the time. And if you cut the ball off, which speed allows you to do, the guy from 1st is not going to get sent home 95% of the time no matter how weak your arm is. Only your Grandersons and Ichiros and such will be trying to score from 1st on a ball cut off in the alley.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Sep 23, 2008 3:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

are you suggesting

that arm strength is meaningless in CF?

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 23, 2008 3:39 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Its not the most important thing

Of all the OF positions the CF utilizes arm strength the least. I would rather have a speedy guy who gets good reads on balls and uses his speed to get to balls others wouldn’t. I will concede the dozen or so runs over the course of the year that a stronger arm may prevent if he can get to fly balls in the alley and turn them into outs rather than doubles.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Sep 23, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

arm strength isn't meaningless anywhere

But it isn’t the most important thing either. You seem to be making the argument if a guy doesn’t have a cannon he can’t be a plus defensive CFer.

by JBImaknee on Sep 23, 2008 3:48 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm making the argument

that a plus defensive CF can’t have an arm that is a liability.

What I said:

I don’t think you can be a plus defensive outfielder with a weak arm.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 23, 2008 3:54 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"People"

Since I’m the one not advocating it here, it seems like the suggestion is that I’m also one who is fine with the idea at catcher. I’m not.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 23, 2008 9:33 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry

Didn’t mean to suggest you were. That was a general comment that just happened to be made in reply to your post.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 23, 2008 3:49 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The advantage to Teagarden

is that his presence back there may help our young pitching more than an average catcher or average game-caller. If you are some freaked out overmatched 24 year old pitcher who is terrified of getting lit up at RBIA with guys on first and third, then your confidence can be maintained by looking at a guy who you know will catch that slider in the dirt or can throw out the guy dancing on first base behind you.

That is a completely fluffy non-quantifiable argument, I know. But that is why I’m more okay with a less than offensive juggernaut Tea back there.

by JBImaknee on Sep 23, 2008 11:53 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Add to that

I just don’t think that any of the four is guaranteed to be a great bat either. I am more confident of Teagarden’s defense than I am Salty’s bat fully developing. Not as sure about Ramirez, but his defense is probably the worst of the four, so the bar is higher for him.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 23, 2008 12:08 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Actually

I submit the advantage of Teagarden is that the offensive dropoff would not be nearly as great as the switch from Hamilton→ Borbon.

by FirebatM3 on Sep 23, 2008 12:54 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not the most fair comparision

if Borbon went into CF, it means Hamilton goes into RF – likely an improvement over whoever is there.

The real question is how much offensive dropoff you have in Borbon/Hamilton vs Hamilton/(Cruz/Murphy/Byrd) you have over there. If Cruz actually has a real major league bat – then Hamilton/Cruz to Borbon/Hamilton is a real dropoff. Hamilton isn’t the guy to compare, whoever he displaces in RF is. Your comparison is really Murphy/Bryd —> Borbon vs Salty/Ramirez —> Teagarden.

by JBImaknee on Sep 23, 2008 3:46 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know what also would probably help a freaked out 24 year old?

Knowing he has a CF’er behind him who is gonna track down anything hit in the gap.

Having confidence in the key defensive ability of the defenders behind you is at least as important (and, imo, more important) than having confidence in the defensive abilities of your catcher.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 23, 2008 3:52 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah I find it odd too

the 3 spots most likely to improve the defense on this team – c, ss, cf – and people seem to think that offense is more important to the big club. It seems some rangers fans are stuck in a time warp still valuing offense above all else…

by Goyogringo on Sep 23, 2008 2:53 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well

What’d you think of the offense last year?

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 23, 2008 3:08 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And what a pleasure it will be

to see Andrus, TG and/or Borbon making plays that we havent seen in years

by Goyogringo on Sep 23, 2008 3:56 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So a 10.5% Walk rate?

Z, I love your stuff, but isn’t that a bit extreme?

For reference, Josh Hamilton had a 10.6 BB% this year. That means you expect Borbon to hit .280 or so in the big leagues? Despite the fact that his low K, mid-GB, high LD profiles him more as a natural .300 hitter?

by FirebatM3 on Sep 23, 2008 12:56 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So you project Borbon as a .300 hitter? He could hit .300, but I’m not ready to assume that.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 23, 2008 1:28 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

while you are here, talking Borbon

what is your take on his arm?

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 23, 2008 1:34 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’ve heard both too, scouting reports had it at below average, but first hand reports like from Hindman had hit more as average. I’ve probably seen him play eight games and never seen him have to air it out, so I’m not sure.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 23, 2008 1:38 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorta makes one wonder exactly how crucial his top-out arm strength is.

I do hear he can get it to 2B after flyball outs, though.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 23, 2008 1:51 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Once

I saw him throw to third and he airmailed the 3rd basemen by 10 feet. You gotta throw it straight and hard. Maybe he can’t do both, hence the rep.

by shroomer on Sep 23, 2008 2:08 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

straight and hard

nothing to add.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 23, 2008 2:37 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

CF arm strength is overrated IMO

Id rather have range and speed and acceleration at that position and strong arms in the corners

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Sep 23, 2008 1:58 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think if the statistical profile of him

shows that he won’t be too far below that. Unless there’s something horrible I’m missing, I see very little reason why he couldn’t hit around .300

by FirebatM3 on Sep 23, 2008 3:20 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

anyone else think

Tim Smith could be the next guy to break out? As of now he is at or near the top of my list for breakout candidates of ’09.

I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.

by rchawk12 on Sep 23, 2008 1:12 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Moreland and Smith

had their breakout years this year…

by Goyogringo on Sep 23, 2008 2:47 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow that's nuts

Tim is not a RF but a LF/CF hybrid with excellent speed who was never projected to hit for power (despite his Hambone-like frame). He hit.300/.359/.450/.809/25db/4trp/13hr/ 70rbi/67 R/2 errors- what more do you expect him to do next year?

by Goyogringo on Sep 23, 2008 2:57 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He went from ASU to the NWL to the MWL. That’s not the track that good, advanced college prospects tend to take. His season was fine, but a breakout season for a college player either needs to involve HA time or excellent numbers. His were just slightly better than what he did in the NWL last summer.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 23, 2008 2:59 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not enough

from a 22 yr. old in his second pro season at that level. His splits are not encouraging, either.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 23, 2008 3:00 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ok

I will be interested to see if he improves on those weaknesses next yr but I still like the kid as a prospect…

by Goyogringo on Sep 23, 2008 3:29 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I would have been more encouraged to see what Smith

he might have done in A+. However, the rangers had what seemed to be a very conservative promotion strategy for OF this year. I would have liked to have seen the following guys promoted/challenged at midseason: Harrison, S. Murphy, gentry(in lieu of keeping Ellison there all yr), Gerrard, smith, and moreland . I’m not sure what interest was served by keeping them all at a lower level than they should have been (and don’t by the claptrap about keeping playoff clubs in tact in lieu of the interest of a players development).

by Goyogringo on Sep 23, 2008 4:24 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree

Start with Nelson Cruz and work your way right down to Smith and Moreland. I don’t see what was gained by keeping most of those guys in place.

by Brett Perryman on Sep 23, 2008 4:27 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nolan Ryan

needs to tell them to stop babying these guys and challenge them!

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 23, 2008 8:00 PM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can an OF'er throw Texas High Heat, though?

I mean, is it even technically possible?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 24, 2008 12:06 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe not,

but they can eat more sausage.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 24, 2008 9:22 AM CDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Solid post.

Did Ben survive the hurricane?

by Chase Irwin on Sep 23, 2008 9:17 AM CDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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