Dr. John Bagonzi Q&A Part 2

by jparks77 on Sep 25, 2008 10:49 AM CDT

In Part II of Baseball Time in Arlington’s three-part Q&A series with Coach Bagonzi, the venerable pitching expert weighs in on the ever-controversial Dr. Mike Marshall, velocity and the Magnus Effect, and the importance of training the lower body for pitchers of all ages, as well as several other topics of great interest.

Coach Bagonzi on "doctoring" a fastball:

"All the time spent on “doctoring” the fastball is well worth it, because movement is priceless and important to pitching success. Having three or four types of fastballs surely fortifies one’s pitching kit - a riser, a tailer, a sinker and perhaps a cutter makes four pitches all coming out of the same delivery slot. Spin direction and amount of spin would be something all pitchers would do well to completely understand and master, for this is responsible for critical fastball movement."

Curious to hear your thoughts.

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Thanks for this series JP

lots of interesting q/a from you and some LSB folk.

Can someone give me a quick and dirty explanation of how to understand these movement measurements: 1 to 7, 2 – 8, 11-5, 12 -6. I know the later two indicate good curveball movement/drop but what do the #s indicate, the trajectory/drop in inches of the ball, top/bottom?

by Goyogringo on Sep 25, 2008 11:03 AM CDT reply actions

and is there a measure like these

for sink, left to right/right to left movement other than calling it “armside sink” or “armside run”?

by Goyogringo on Sep 25, 2008 11:04 AM CDT up reply actions

Look at a clock

The numbers correspond to the time on a clock. So a 12-6 curve breaks basically straight down. An 11-5 is thrown by a lefty and has a more traditional down and away break. 2-8 would be a slider thrown by a righty. And a 1-7 is the same as a 11-5 only thrown by a righty.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Sep 25, 2008 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions

Thanks, that is simpler than I thought...

by Goyogringo on Sep 25, 2008 11:20 AM CDT up reply actions

Do you know if it is actually a measure of some kind

or somewhat subjective/relative to some degree? And what would the measurement be for a below average curve ball/ slider?

by Goyogringo on Sep 25, 2008 11:23 AM CDT up reply actions

I don't know

I imagine the tag “below average, average, etc” has more to do with the sharpness of the break not the direction of it. For instance Padillas slow curve is an 11-5 pitch but its not sharp. Its a fluke pitch that catches hitters off guard. If he featured that pitch hitters would pound it because it doesn’t have a sharp break. Whereas another pitcher may thrown a tight curve that breaks the same direction, 11-5, but does so much sharper. Basically it looks like a fastball for probably 3/4 of the way to home plate but then curves at the last second. Thats where you will sometimes hear “drops off the table” or something to that effect from announcers.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Sep 25, 2008 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions

I think

there are some scouts who use a device not only to capture the speed but the break of a pitch. That’s why we tend to have a lot of accurate pitch Fx data.

Check out fangraphs to compare the difference in break..

by FirebatM3 on Sep 26, 2008 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions

Interesting point about defense

and pertinent to much of the talk here lately and the Rangers’ current situation:

Defense seems to thrive and improve when quality pitchers are on the mound.

Let’s hope both defense and pitching show great improvement in 2009.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 25, 2008 1:52 PM CDT reply actions

Sigh,

nothing about scap loading.

What kind of pitching expert is he, anyway. Might as well just have them throwin footballs.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 25, 2008 1:54 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs

I have a feeling.

I think there will be a part 3.

It's filed under 'D'... for donut.

by NoNameOnCard on Sep 25, 2008 9:27 PM CDT up reply actions

There will be

Baseball Time in Arlington

by Joey Matschulat on Sep 25, 2008 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions

I just thought of a great question!

is it too late to Colbert him with this one:

Dick Mills: great pitching coach or greatest pitching coach?

It's filed under 'D'... for donut.

by NoNameOnCard on Sep 25, 2008 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions

Doesn't Feldman have 2 fastballs that look identical when coming out of his hand?

Can he learn two more this offseason?

Go Rangers!

by rooster on Sep 25, 2008 2:57 PM CDT reply actions

Trip answers his own question

Constantly training your legs doesn’t help you use your legs. Pitching is a skill activity. To get better at pitching, you must pitch. No amount of running, squats, yoga, or kickboxing are going to make you a better pitcher.

by SteveP on Sep 25, 2008 5:36 PM CDT reply actions

By that definition...

simply by pitching, a guy will use his legs better. Question: do you actually believe what you just said?

It's filed under 'D'... for donut.

by NoNameOnCard on Sep 25, 2008 9:26 PM CDT up reply actions

it's all about the mechanics

you can work out your legs 7 days a week, but it won’t translate to the mound.

by SteveP on Sep 26, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions

Ok, then...

You’ve got two pitchers. One is 25 years old, 6’ 4", right-handed, and he works out every day to condition his body to make him a better pitcher. The other is his genetic twin, but he doesn’t work out or train; he never has and he never will.

They always throw together and they have the same pitching coach/instructor and identical mechanics. The play for the same reasons, have the same mentality and approach to the game.

Basically, they are identical in every possible way except that one of them works out and one of them doesn’t. You want rational people to believe that the guy who works out won’t throw harder, with a higher pitch-count threshold, and with better recovery times (which translates into more healthy reps on the hill) than his twin?

It's filed under 'D'... for donut.

by NoNameOnCard on Sep 27, 2008 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions