Cal, Texas league top 20s
by Brett Perryman on Sep 25, 2008 5:58 PM CDT
124 comments
BA posted their Cal League list today:
Borbon at #11:
Borbon opened his first full season in Bakersfield and earned a promotion to Double-A after just 66 games. He actually put up better numbers after the promotion, adding 98 points to his OPS. While Cal League scouts and managers thought he can become a big league regular, they weren't blown away by his performance.
Borbon's tools suggest an ideal leadoff profile, but there were questions about how much he'll get the bat on the ball as he moves up. He needs to tighten his strike zone, walk more and strike out less. He shows gap power but is better off keeping the ball on the ground to take advantage of his speed.
While Borbon is an above-average runner, he didn't always show that speed in the Cal League, and one manager called him a "sloppy player." His speed does give him the ability to be an above-average defender in center field, and he has enough arm for the position.
As expected, Frisco will have a much better showing when their list is posted online next week:
1 - Dexter Fowler
2 - Chris Davis
3 - Kyle Blanks
4 - Vin Mazzaro
5 - Elvis Andrus
6 - Daniel Cortes
7 - Jess Todd
8 - Julio Borbon
9 - Max Ramirez
That Borbon profile sounds very accurate to me.
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This has been posted in a couple other places, but it probably fits better here.
I know laxtonto posted it in the Ahmad thread but I figured it would get lost there amidst the general dumbassery.
Jay, Melville: Keith, Keith, Please compare the abilities of Justin Smoak and Pedro Alvarez.What is their ETA for the majors? Thanks
SportsNation Keith Law: I prefer Smoak – switch-hitter, more patient, better pitch recognition, plus glove at 1b. Both are quick movers, in the majors inside of 24 months.
Niel (Dallas): What team has the most pitching in their minor league system?
SportsNation Keith Law: Texas. Tampa, Boston, San Francisco too.
Matt (Cambridge): How does Lars Anderson project against guys like Smoak, T. Snider, Alvarez, and Villalona? How about a gut-feeling ranking?
SportsNation Keith Law: Hm. Smoak, Anderson, Snider, Alvarez, Villalona.
andon, Cali: One of your ESPN colleagues, Jim Callis, said right now he would put the Rangers over the A’s as the best system in baseball because the Rangers are loaded at every position it seems. Agree?
SportsNation Keith Law: Yes, although my main reasons would be a longer list of legitimate prospects and more top-shelf guys. Other than Inoa, I’m not sure there’s an Oakland prospect who’d crack Texas’ top 4. And I do like Cahill and Anderson – I just like Texas’ best guys (Feliz and Smoak in particular) more.
clayton (dallas): Do you see Michael Maine’s late hand break as worrisome for the future?
SportsNation Keith Law: No.
Hank (Dallas): Keith, who do you think is better longterm, Holland or Feliz?
SportsNation Keith Law: Feliz.
by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 6:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Personally...
Cahill would be a lock for my top 4. Probably Feliz, Smoak, Cahill, Holland in that order. Anderson would likely be 5, edging out Elvis.
by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This can also be found in the "Thursday a.m. stuff" thread...
Nice save?…
by oc on Sep 25, 2008 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers have the most minor league pitching in baseball?
by clark on Sep 25, 2008 7:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And right before he's fired ...
he needs to stand up and scream, “I’m gonna live forever!”
by shroomer on Sep 25, 2008 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I doubt many of the people who think JD should be fired could give a toss about our farm system.
by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 7:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you give a toss?
just curious
by laxtonto on Sep 25, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not entirely sure.
It’s an English saying. It makes no sense but I can’t shake it for the life of me. I use it occasionally at work and get puzzled looks every time.
by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
I was referring to Randy Galloway, Mike Rhyner and Bob Sturm, who were all calling for him to be fired yesterday…although Mike and Bob both wouldn’t come out and say that but instead stuff like “I don’t see any way that you can not fire him at this point”.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 25, 2008 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was disappointed to hear Bob say that
He’s more sports smart than that. Probably reading up on too much Euro football to pay attention to what’s going on around the farm.
by RangersOCD on Sep 25, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was getting pretty fired up
listening to that. I almost sent him an email, but I know that he gets dozens on it and probably got several yesterday. He’s usually not this lazy with his thought process, but he also doesn’t care to give baseball the same sort of brain power that he does his favorite sports.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 25, 2008 11:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
glad i didn't hear it
because i would have called and emailed. The past week anytime i hear ranger talk on the ticket it just infuriates me because it seems to be the same redundant bull that galloway throws out there.
Or the ever popular “lets move kinsler to left field and young back to second”
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 26, 2008 8:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was probably even worse today
I’m definitely going to email Sturm. I’m disappointed in him.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 27, 2008 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard it
He said the farm rankings were irrelevant because they are only opinions. He also said that the Yankees manage to win despite a bad farm (he admitted it was a bit of a stretch to compare the two). His main argument was that the Rangers FO only cares about $$$$ and not championships.
by RangersOCD on Sep 27, 2008 12:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as I'm concerned
Sturm can whine about Hicks all he wants. Not all of it is well based, but I think that Hicks deserves it. I can see how that probably would annoy people as well, but I just don’t care about whether Hicks gets a fair shake at this point.
I’m just disappointed that one of the few and maybe the only guy around in the media who is usually willing to look at things critically but sincerely and at least somewhat thoroughly, and a guy who prides himself on that, has such a joke stance on the talent level in the organization. It’s reflective of the way many people feel, and it’s a pretty standard take for typical media who are as a rule lazy and dumb, but his whole personna is built on the notion that he’s willing to be more insightful.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 27, 2008 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
farm system
one that that bothers me when people ignore a highly regarded farm system is that if you follow through with it and let the players develop and maybe trade one high prospect for another high prospect you can end up being like tampa bay this season.
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 27, 2008 8:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Tampa Bay is an example of what makes his stance so ridiculous. Have the Rays been run immaculately? Goodness no. They’ve had many personnel mistakes and disappointments. What they’ve done, though, is draft extremely well (yes, partly because of the fact that they’ve been picking high, but certainly not exclusively because of that) so that their talent base is so great that they were going to be good, regardless of those mistakes and misfortunes.
It didn’t happen exactly the way that you might have expected. Of all of the highly regarded pitchers that they’ve brought in, James Shields wasn’t who you would have projected as the #2. They were supposed to (in my mind) be ready to go in 2009, not 2008. But again, they had so much talent and such a large portion of it had reach the majors or the cusp of the majors that it was like a tidal wave.
And that’s why the drastically increased overall talent level – regardless of how it was accrued in the last 15 months – is the singular important factor for Texas right now. They’ve got to figure out this pitching thing as an organization now. Whatever the reasons are that they have not stopped teams from scoring runs, they have to address them. But that, along with everything else, is so much more doable when you have talent, even if some of it is unproven.
And again, the inability of Bob to distinguish between the situation now and that two or three years ago (in terms of how much talent there actually is) is frustrating from someone like Sturm.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 27, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very good take,
even ignoring the Sturm angle.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Sep 27, 2008 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sturm
is not better than Josey Wales on acknowledging the difference in talent now from then.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Woah...
Was that level of didain neccessary?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Sep 27, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
disdain, even
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Sep 27, 2008 1:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disdain
for his commentary this week, not the man. And don’t misunderstand me about Wales, either. I think he’s wrong but I don’t necessarily disrespect him for it. I understand his frustration, sympathize with it even, and he does have some points about the way the organization has been run over the years. I think he’s set in his mind about Daniels and won’t change it even if Daniels cures cancer, but that doesn’t make him an idiot to me.
Wales represents thousands of loyal Rangers fans who are understandably skeptical and taking a believe it when they see it attitude.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 1:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't listen to BaD radio today...
If he actually said this…
He also said that the Yankees manage to win despite a bad farm (he admitted it was a bit of a stretch to compare the two).
That may be one of the dumbest thing (on multiple levels) that Sturm has said in quite some time.
by LiamP on Sep 27, 2008 1:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's April 6th, 2009... Who's my centerfielder?
by oc on Sep 25, 2008 7:16 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Your mom?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Sep 25, 2008 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
With a pea?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 25, 2008 10:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For eternity?
"Asphalt me, ben. Asphalt me good and hard." - brettgardner
by Chase Irwin on Sep 25, 2008 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
But neither is your incessant bitching the last month or so…
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Sep 26, 2008 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Borbon!
Well, probably not. But maybe.
by Joey Matschulat on Sep 25, 2008 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
btw
he thought in the alvarez vs smoak question the question was alonso vs smoak
later on he said: alvarez > smoak > alonso
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 25, 2008 8:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
damn
i was just thinking thats very high praise for smoak. Still its nice, but i was getting excited to hear him ranked higher than alvarez.
I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.
by rchawk12 on Sep 25, 2008 9:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i did the same thing when i was reading the chat :(
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 26, 2008 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Cole hints
that MJH’s next DMN roundtable will have the local horsehide swells list their top 20 farmhands. Jason has figured out his top 5 …
Within the next few days, I will post it on this board and there should be a piece about my top 20 (along with the rankings of some other writers) in the Dallas Morning News Rangers blog.
.
I will say that this is incredibly difficult — even more so than last year. I’m only including players that I have seen play, so none of the DSL guys are included. But that will change after I get back from instructs and see some of these guys. Also, these rankings will certainly change after I go to instructs and see them all one last time.
.
About the only thing I’ve settled on so far is the top five. Here it is:
.
1. Neftali Feliz
2. Derek Holland
3. Justin Smoak
4. Elvis Andrus
then he picks Teagarden fifth for an eyebrow raiser. Not that this Tea fanboy is complaining much.
Anybody out there with a Top 10 or Top 20 they’d like to share to help JC find his way?
by shroomer on Sep 25, 2008 10:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My spur of the moment top ten:
1. Feliz
2. Smoak
3. Holland
4. Andrus
5. Perez
6. Main
7. Beltre
8. M Ramirez
9. Teagarden
10. Font
by Brett Perryman on Sep 25, 2008 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting on Font
I know the talent he has, but he hasn’t done much to warrant top 10 in this system IMO. There’s too many other good players to not recognize their accomplishments.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Sep 25, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not always about
proof and I’m not recognizing achievements or honoring anyone for performance. I’m guessing at the ten most promising players in the system, and those aren’t always guys with much experience.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 26, 2008 12:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most promising, but in some cases may not be as likely as others to beat attrition.
Just clarifying. No intent to imply something negative.
I kind of have the potential for impact multiplied by the likelihood to make it (as best as I can determine from what others are saying) when I make a list, and I give a little bump to athletic pitchers.
1. Feliz
2. Smoak
3. MaxRam
4. Dutch
5. Teagarden
6. Andrus
7. Perez
8. Main
9. NeRa
10. Beltre
I thought about Borbon at 10 rather than Beltre. I’m just not convinced that Borbon’s top is more than 4th OF, mostly because his bat looks weak.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on Sep 26, 2008 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
BiTA. It’s just my bias when it comes to prospects.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 27, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BITA+
Quick, rank the catchers in terms of bita theory. I’d go (in order of how much they’d potentially bite you) Tea, Ramirez, Salty, Laird. If Salty had stayed healthy and made some progress this year he’d be no. 1. Ramirez only behind Tea because of my doubts about his defense letting him stick at catcher long term.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BiTA
What does it stand for?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 27, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bite in The Ass
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
by Rodney on Sep 27, 2008 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Z's rule of thumb for which guy to trade
which guy do you fear coming back to bite you in the ass most if he fulfills his potential on another team?
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
BITA+
I’d rank Max first in terms of the bita theory. I think that Salty and Tea have ceilings that would make them above average catchers, though the two of them would obviously reach that ceiling in entirely different ways (Tea w/ elite defense and slightly above average stick for the position, Salty w/ elite bat and average defense at the position). I think Max’s ceiling is one of the premier run producers in the game, and I’d rather have that than even a top 5 catcher in the game.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 27, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only constant in that group for me
is Laird is last in BITA. The other three could turn out much better or much worse, though Max’s bat seems the most likely to have at least some value among the three.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salty, MaxRam, Teagarden, Laird
BITA+ is the main thing that Saltalmacchia has going for him.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 27, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mine is similar to yours.
1. Feliz
2. Smoak
3. Dutch
4. Andrus
5. Main
6. Beltre
7. Perez
8. Teagarden
9. M Ramirez
10. Beavan
by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I think I like yours better than Z’s. But I’m a Tea fanboy and I’m down on Max and Kiker for ‘feel’ reasons. I like Beltre as y’all do. I’m leary of Font and a Beavan fanboy a bit, but Main has really grown on me despite 2 toddling baby-steps seasons. Perez and Boscan seemed like mirror images in the Boise videos.
USC lost. Good duck.
by shroomer on Sep 25, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Top 10
Put yours up, mang.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 26, 2008 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
krap
Me and my big mouth.
1-Holland
2-Feliz
That’s the only way I’d probably be different than most. I saw Holland pitch once and Feliz twice. Holland seemed much more likely to hit a lofty ceiling and cruise than Feliz, IMO. Feliz throws harder, but Holland’s polish sold me. Also, the the daggers he was shooting into the chirpy SA dugout after giving up a HR gave me tingles. Our choir boy has no back down in him. Awesome athlete. Bigger than you’d think up close. Lezotte befriended him during the long Clinton roadtrips and said he was an absolutely awesome human bean. I noticed Andrus was mindful to lean into Feliz whenever he had a chance and encourage him. Nobody needed to support Holland that way.
by shroomer on Sep 26, 2008 1:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
feliz
one thing to consider about him is just how young he is for his level. The guy jumped from low A to AA, so him needing encouragement here or there doesnt bother me.
I never got to see feliz this year other than tv but saw holland, and he didnt have his best stuff that day and still mowed people down.
I’d probably go the opposite of your ranks purely on upside
1, Feliz
2 Holland
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Sep 26, 2008 8:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I disagree with that
Feliz still has plenty of time to polish his stuff to match Holland’s, but right now I think I’m leaning towards Holland who has shown better control and from what I understand, better secondary pitches.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Sep 26, 2008 8:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha human bean.
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Sep 27, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It'll be different tomorrow, probably, but
1. Feliz
2. Holland
3. Smoak
4. Andrus
5. Main
6. Perez
7. Ramirez
8. Teagarden
9. Beltre
10. Boscan
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 25, 2008 11:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off the top of my head
1. Dutch
2. Feliz
3. Smoak
4. Andrus
5. Maxatron
6. M-Per
7. Main
8. Beavan
9. Beltre
10. Bourbon (In a very close one over Tea… I’m actually thinking right now that I should change it, but… nah.)
Can’t wait ‘till the off season CPP. It’s gonna be a crazy list. Figure I’ll start it up not too long after the World Series ends.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 26, 2008 3:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
dutch first! impressive
mine:
1-feliz
2-holland
3-smoak
4-andrus
5-perez
6-main
7-max ram
8-beltre
9- teagarden
10- rotates…thank goodness i dont have to make my mind up THAT much
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 26, 2008 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: Dutch over Feliz
I love me some Neftali, but Dutch’s K/BB ratio is just so damn beautiful. It dominates my thoughts while I’m awake, and it haunts my dreams on those rare occasions I actually get to sleep. I think about his K/BB ratio in ways that no man should ever think about another man’s K/BB ratio. I wanna take his K/BB ratio out for nice seafood dinner and never call it again. I should stop talking about his K/BB ratio now.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 26, 2008 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didnt the last list get completed in August?
Why not wait until after the winter meetings to see if we make some trades…? I can’t see the list from August and the list after the world series differing that much(?).
by Goyogringo on Sep 26, 2008 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could do that too
I checked and the last one started in December, so maybe we’ll wait a bit longer just to keep with tradition.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 26, 2008 7:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a question for everyone:
Instead of a “prospect” ranking, say you had to do a “Guy’s with less than one full year of service time” ranking.
Does Chris Davis go ahead of Dutch/Feliz on your rankings?
Why or why not?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 26, 2008 3:29 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i would slot davis RIGHT behind feliz and ahead of holland
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 26, 2008 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good question
Davis has looked good in his initial big league exposure, and that puts him ahead of the Happy-Dutch duo for me. I’d still like him to walk a little bit more and strike out just a little bit less, but he’s been quite productive for a 22-yr. old rookie.
My 10th spot fluctuates with Font, Boscan, and Beavan all around there, though I almost always want Font and Boscan ahead of Beavan.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 26, 2008 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
how can you not?
22 year old with an amazing bat and very good defense at 1st. There is no way you don’t rank that ahead of Dutch/Feliz as long as they aren’t dominating in the Majors.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Sep 26, 2008 10:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why can't we make up our own measures?
I think that measure could stick, and provides a broader view of depth in any system, by looking at those yong’ens who finish with less than a years service in the bigs. So it would include young pitchers/hitters from both oakland and tx and make for a comparison with more breadth/depth…
by Goyogringo on Sep 26, 2008 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you did that
you’d have to go pretty deep in the system IMO.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Sep 26, 2008 8:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd have Davis first
He looks very likely to be a star. The two pitchers would be more important if they fulfilled their full potential, but they are so much less likely to that I think you have to favor Davis.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 27, 2008 12:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep...
Davis would be first. He has shown much more at higher levels than Feliz and Dutch.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 27, 2008 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Replying to Z down here since my work computer won't let me reply normally
Fair enough on Font. Maybe I’m not giving his talent enough credit, I however think in such a loaded system a fair way to break a tie is to look at performance.
I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles
by Dirk Diggler on Sep 26, 2008 7:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It kind of bothers me
While Borbon is an above-average runner, he didn’t always show that speed in the Cal League, and one manager called him a “sloppy player.” His speed does give him the ability to be an above-average defender in center field, and he has enough arm for the position.
That he doesn’t sound like he is able to put his speed to good use yet. It sounds like they are still saying he might be able to be an above average defender, but he isn’t there yet.
I really wish there was a good CF option in the FA market this year, because I’m not really sure that Borbon is going to be able to live up to some of the hype he is getting in here.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Sep 26, 2008 9:26 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Borbon
Sounds to me like they are saying he doesn’t use his speed on the basepaths enough. yet he had what 50 someodd steals this year between A+ and AA. The comment about his defense hopefully will stop some of this talk about his arm not being strong enough. I think some people have the false sense that he is going to be this complete player who is good both offensively and defensively. I’ll take a guy who gets alot of infield singles and steals bases and plays good defense in CF from alley to alley anyday of the week.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on Sep 26, 2008 9:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure
he currently plays good defense in CF from alley to alley right now.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Sep 26, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps too worried
How many young players are fully utilizing all of their talents at this stage of the game? Feliz isn’t. Holland isn’t. Not that I expect Borbon to be anywhere near as good as them, but he just completed his first full pro season, he has time to fix that stuff. I’m more worried about his plate discipline, his defense should be adequate.
This is, though, yet another bullet point for leaving him in AA and/or AAA next season until at least late summer, if not all year. He and Andrus both should spend the whole year refining their approach at the plate and becoming more consistent on defense without anyone penciling them into a major league lineup.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 26, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
both need at least another full year. Both players are expected to have their gloves carry their bats in the majors, so it is fairly important that their gloves are fairly polished coming into the majors. If they aren’t dramatic upgrades over the incumbents defensively, then there isn’t a lot of pressure to bring them up. While I’ve heard that Andrus is a dramatic upgrade defensively over Young, I’ve heard that Borbon and Hamilton is more of a coinflip.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Sep 26, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not surprised by that
He did get caught a lot in Frisco when attempting to steal. I think its one of those things that he simply needs better competition so that he isn’t allowed to get away with that sloppy play. That seemed to start changing towards the end of the season as well as his walk rate starting to go up more.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Sep 26, 2008 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was wierd
that was the Cal League scouting report, though. And he was very successful stealing there
by FirebatM3 on Sep 26, 2008 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but is is poor journalism
not to define what the hell “sloppy” means. It could mean anything from prep, to attitude, to attention span, to technique, to coachability…jUst what the hell does that mean? Nothing if you ask me…
by Goyogringo on Sep 26, 2008 5:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think MaxRam
is getting a little overlooked on some of these lists. Wouldn’t we all be thrilled if Smoak posts a year similar to Max in AA next year? Well sure we’d be ecstatic, but Max has already done it.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 26, 2008 5:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Smoak
has Max’s bat with plus defense. Max has much less value as a DH than as a catcher.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 26, 2008 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
1B - DH
Those positions are right next to each other on the defensive spectrum, not really a huge difference.
And while I like Smoak, I’m going to wait until I see him post something in the neighborhood of .354/.450/.646 before I’m willing to say that he has Max’s bat.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 26, 2008 8:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's an oddly specific benchmark
for Smoak LOL.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Sep 26, 2008 8:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point wasn't to compare 1B-DH
but Smoak is considered a plus bat and plus glove, whereas Max is a plus bat with no glove. I seriously doubt we will see a single published list with Ramirez ahead of Smoak. Ramirez belongs in the top 10 of this system, and would be in most team’s top 5 no doubt. I’m a big believer in Ramirez, and I’m one who thinks he can hit well enough to be at least an average DH. But I think Smoak will be an all-star level asset on both sides of the ball.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 26, 2008 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact
I don’t think there is a single minor league hitter that I’d prefer over Max. I’m a huge believer in the value of defense, but I think that there is immense value in a transcendent bat, and I think Max has one.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 27, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
a single minor league hitter?
Do you mean in the Rangers’ system or in all of baseball?
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
all of baseball
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 27, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
although I fully realize that my argument sounds pretty lame
when talking about up the middle guys like Rasmus, Fowler, and a handful of others, but I really think Max is going to do major damage with his stick.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 27, 2008 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right
But I see him as only an average DH (not that that’s a bad thing). If he can be passable at catcher he has much more value. I expect him to be about an .875 OPS guy. That’s tremendous for a catcher, only pretty nice for a DH.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
875 OPS
that is well above average for any position in the lineup, shroom says so:
http://www.my.calendars.net/farmprobs/d02/10/2008/popup/1
875 is about what Vlad and Thome have done this year. I guess we don’t disagree, I just place more value on an 875 OPS, those guys are exceedingly rare.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 27, 2008 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
more 875 OPS
that would place him in the top 35 sticks in the game this year, ahead of Pat Burrell, Adrian Gonzalez, Carlos Beltran, Jim Thome, Dan Uggla, Dustin Pedroia, Joe Mauer, Magglio Ordonez, and many other notables.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 27, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the problem is...
…folks who have seen him have some concerns about whether his bat is going to play at the higher levels the way some other guys’ will.
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 28, 2008 6:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen Max hit in the minors...
and the guy hits the ball as hard as anyone that I’ve seen and he does so far more consistently than anyone that I’ve seen. His swing is quick and he has a great eye. I’m no scout but I have a hard time believing that he will fail to transition to the majors.
by spurdynasty on Sep 28, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think so, too, but
Some here seem to think he’s a lock to be a .900 OPS guy and I think that’s a lot to count on.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 28, 2008 8:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t think of one hitter the Rangers have developed that I thought was a lock to be a perennial 900 OPS guy, and they’ve developed some pretty nice hitting prospects.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 28, 2008 8:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think he's a good bet
to be at least adequate at DH? I do. He might not be Bradley, but I think he could be at least average there, and cheaply so. Only 4 DHs were above .807 OPS this season. I think he might be able to do that next year.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 28, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
He’s getting jerked around a little level-wise because of his position, but I think he could probably hit like that next season if given the proper opportunity. I’m a believer in his bat.
by Brett Perryman on Sep 29, 2008 9:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Proper opportunity
The Rangers have really not done well in that department in recent years.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
by t ball on Sep 29, 2008 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he is a .800 OPS guy
and young, that’s not a bad DH.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
by DJCahill on Sep 29, 2008 9:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
where have you heard/read these sentiments?
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
by tricer on Sep 29, 2008 5:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
right with ya
Smoak hopes to have more power but he really couldn’t do very much better than Max. I made my list today and plan to post it soon and it includes Max over Smoak.
by bushe on Sep 26, 2008 7:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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