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Cal, Texas league top 20s

20080813andrusfeliz_tiny by zywica on

BA posted their Cal League list today:

Borbon at #11:

Borbon opened his first full season in Bakersfield and earned a promotion to Double-A after just 66 games. He actually put up better numbers after the promotion, adding 98 points to his OPS. While Cal League scouts and managers thought he can become a big league regular, they weren't blown away by his performance.

Borbon's tools suggest an ideal leadoff profile, but there were questions about how much he'll get the bat on the ball as he moves up. He needs to tighten his strike zone, walk more and strike out less. He shows gap power but is better off keeping the ball on the ground to take advantage of his speed.

While Borbon is an above-average runner, he didn't always show that speed in the Cal League, and one manager called him a "sloppy player." His speed does give him the ability to be an above-average defender in center field, and he has enough arm for the position.

As expected, Frisco will have a much better showing when their list is posted online next week:

1 - Dexter Fowler
2 - Chris Davis
3 - Kyle Blanks
4 - Vin Mazzaro
5 - Elvis Andrus
6 - Daniel Cortes
7 - Jess Todd
8 - Julio Borbon
9 - Max Ramirez

 That Borbon profile sounds very accurate to me.

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This has been posted in a couple other places, but it probably fits better here.

I know laxtonto posted it in the Ahmad thread but I figured it would get lost there amidst the general dumbassery.

Jay, Melville: Keith, Keith, Please compare the abilities of Justin Smoak and Pedro Alvarez.What is their ETA for the majors? Thanks

SportsNation Keith Law: I prefer Smoak – switch-hitter, more patient, better pitch recognition, plus glove at 1b. Both are quick movers, in the majors inside of 24 months.

Niel (Dallas): What team has the most pitching in their minor league system?

SportsNation Keith Law: Texas. Tampa, Boston, San Francisco too.

Matt (Cambridge): How does Lars Anderson project against guys like Smoak, T. Snider, Alvarez, and Villalona? How about a gut-feeling ranking?

SportsNation Keith Law: Hm. Smoak, Anderson, Snider, Alvarez, Villalona.

andon, Cali: One of your ESPN colleagues, Jim Callis, said right now he would put the Rangers over the A’s as the best system in baseball because the Rangers are loaded at every position it seems. Agree?

SportsNation Keith Law: Yes, although my main reasons would be a longer list of legitimate prospects and more top-shelf guys. Other than Inoa, I’m not sure there’s an Oakland prospect who’d crack Texas’ top 4. And I do like Cahill and Anderson – I just like Texas’ best guys (Feliz and Smoak in particular) more.

clayton (dallas): Do you see Michael Maine’s late hand break as worrisome for the future?

SportsNation Keith Law: No.

Hank (Dallas): Keith, who do you think is better longterm, Holland or Feliz?

SportsNation Keith Law: Feliz.

by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 6:47 PM CDT   0 recs

Personally...

Cahill would be a lock for my top 4. Probably Feliz, Smoak, Cahill, Holland in that order. Anderson would likely be 5, edging out Elvis.

by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 6:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oops.

Didn’t even checked there.

by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 7:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Dammit.

That’s supposed to be “check”.

by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 7:11 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

But Daniels should be fired.

by zywica on Sep 25, 2008 7:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Ahem!

That’s Boy Blunder, to you.

:p

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2

by Rodney on Sep 25, 2008 7:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And right before he's fired ...

he needs to stand up and scream, “I’m gonna live forever!”

by shroomer on Sep 25, 2008 7:13 PM CDT to parent up   1 recs

I doubt many of the people who think JD should be fired could give a toss about our farm system.

by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 7:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not entirely sure.

It’s an English saying. It makes no sense but I can’t shake it for the life of me. I use it occasionally at work and get puzzled looks every time.

by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 8:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Toss

is is olde english for grasturbation…

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2

by Rodney on Sep 25, 2008 8:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know

I was referring to Randy Galloway, Mike Rhyner and Bob Sturm, who were all calling for him to be fired yesterday…although Mike and Bob both wouldn’t come out and say that but instead stuff like “I don’t see any way that you can not fire him at this point”.

by zywica on Sep 25, 2008 8:01 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I was disappointed to hear Bob say that

He’s more sports smart than that. Probably reading up on too much Euro football to pay attention to what’s going on around the farm.

by RangersOCD on Sep 25, 2008 10:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I was getting pretty fired up

listening to that. I almost sent him an email, but I know that he gets dozens on it and probably got several yesterday. He’s usually not this lazy with his thought process, but he also doesn’t care to give baseball the same sort of brain power that he does his favorite sports.

by zywica on Sep 25, 2008 11:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

glad i didn't hear it

because i would have called and emailed. The past week anytime i hear ranger talk on the ticket it just infuriates me because it seems to be the same redundant bull that galloway throws out there.

Or the ever popular “lets move kinsler to left field and young back to second”

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Sep 26, 2008 8:03 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It was probably even worse today

I’m definitely going to email Sturm. I’m disappointed in him.

by zywica on Sep 27, 2008 12:04 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I heard it

He said the farm rankings were irrelevant because they are only opinions. He also said that the Yankees manage to win despite a bad farm (he admitted it was a bit of a stretch to compare the two). His main argument was that the Rangers FO only cares about $$$$ and not championships.

by RangersOCD on Sep 27, 2008 12:09 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

As far as I'm concerned

Sturm can whine about Hicks all he wants. Not all of it is well based, but I think that Hicks deserves it. I can see how that probably would annoy people as well, but I just don’t care about whether Hicks gets a fair shake at this point.

I’m just disappointed that one of the few and maybe the only guy around in the media who is usually willing to look at things critically but sincerely and at least somewhat thoroughly, and a guy who prides himself on that, has such a joke stance on the talent level in the organization. It’s reflective of the way many people feel, and it’s a pretty standard take for typical media who are as a rule lazy and dumb, but his whole personna is built on the notion that he’s willing to be more insightful.

by zywica on Sep 27, 2008 12:16 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

farm system

one that that bothers me when people ignore a highly regarded farm system is that if you follow through with it and let the players develop and maybe trade one high prospect for another high prospect you can end up being like tampa bay this season.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Sep 27, 2008 8:37 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

Tampa Bay is an example of what makes his stance so ridiculous. Have the Rays been run immaculately? Goodness no. They’ve had many personnel mistakes and disappointments. What they’ve done, though, is draft extremely well (yes, partly because of the fact that they’ve been picking high, but certainly not exclusively because of that) so that their talent base is so great that they were going to be good, regardless of those mistakes and misfortunes.

It didn’t happen exactly the way that you might have expected. Of all of the highly regarded pitchers that they’ve brought in, James Shields wasn’t who you would have projected as the #2. They were supposed to (in my mind) be ready to go in 2009, not 2008. But again, they had so much talent and such a large portion of it had reach the majors or the cusp of the majors that it was like a tidal wave.

And that’s why the drastically increased overall talent level – regardless of how it was accrued in the last 15 months – is the singular important factor for Texas right now. They’ve got to figure out this pitching thing as an organization now. Whatever the reasons are that they have not stopped teams from scoring runs, they have to address them. But that, along with everything else, is so much more doable when you have talent, even if some of it is unproven.

And again, the inability of Bob to distinguish between the situation now and that two or three years ago (in terms of how much talent there actually is) is frustrating from someone like Sturm.

by zywica on Sep 27, 2008 10:57 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Very good take,

even ignoring the Sturm angle.

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2

by Rodney on Sep 27, 2008 11:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Sturm

is not better than Josey Wales on acknowledging the difference in talent now from then.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 1:00 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Woah...

Was that level of didain neccessary?

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2

by Rodney on Sep 27, 2008 1:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

disdain, even

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2

by Rodney on Sep 27, 2008 1:22 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Disdain

for his commentary this week, not the man. And don’t misunderstand me about Wales, either. I think he’s wrong but I don’t necessarily disrespect him for it. I understand his frustration, sympathize with it even, and he does have some points about the way the organization has been run over the years. I think he’s set in his mind about Daniels and won’t change it even if Daniels cures cancer, but that doesn’t make him an idiot to me.

Wales represents thousands of loyal Rangers fans who are understandably skeptical and taking a believe it when they see it attitude.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 1:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't listen to BaD radio today...

If he actually said this…

He also said that the Yankees manage to win despite a bad farm (he admitted it was a bit of a stretch to compare the two).

That may be one of the dumbest thing (on multiple levels) that Sturm has said in quite some time.

by LiamP on Sep 27, 2008 1:25 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Your mom?

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2

by Rodney on Sep 25, 2008 8:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

With a pea?

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 25, 2008 10:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

For eternity?

"Asphalt me, ben. Asphalt me good and hard." - brettgardner

by Chase Irwin on Sep 25, 2008 11:52 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Not really

But neither is your incessant bitching the last month or so…

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2

by Rodney on Sep 26, 2008 8:12 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Perfect!

I have been sick…

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2

by Rodney on Sep 26, 2008 2:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

btw

he thought in the alvarez vs smoak question the question was alonso vs smoak

later on he said: alvarez > smoak > alonso

"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich

by knockoutking on Sep 25, 2008 8:54 PM CDT   0 recs

damn

i was just thinking thats very high praise for smoak. Still its nice, but i was getting excited to hear him ranked higher than alvarez.

I'm sorry my parents never had me sarcamsized.

by rchawk12 on Sep 25, 2008 9:39 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i did the same thing when i was reading the chat :(

"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich

by knockoutking on Sep 26, 2008 7:43 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Jason Cole hints

that MJH’s next DMN roundtable will have the local horsehide swells list their top 20 farmhands. Jason has figured out his top 5 …

Within the next few days, I will post it on this board and there should be a piece about my top 20 (along with the rankings of some other writers) in the Dallas Morning News Rangers blog.
.
I will say that this is incredibly difficult — even more so than last year. I’m only including players that I have seen play, so none of the DSL guys are included. But that will change after I get back from instructs and see some of these guys. Also, these rankings will certainly change after I go to instructs and see them all one last time.
.
About the only thing I’ve settled on so far is the top five. Here it is:
.
1. Neftali Feliz
2. Derek Holland
3. Justin Smoak
4. Elvis Andrus

then he picks Teagarden fifth for an eyebrow raiser. Not that this Tea fanboy is complaining much.

Anybody out there with a Top 10 or Top 20 they’d like to share to help JC find his way?

by shroomer on Sep 25, 2008 10:42 PM CDT   0 recs

My spur of the moment top ten:

1. Feliz
2. Smoak
3. Holland
4. Andrus
5. Perez
6. Main
7. Beltre
8. M Ramirez
9. Teagarden
10. Font

by zywica on Sep 25, 2008 10:56 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting on Font

I know the talent he has, but he hasn’t done much to warrant top 10 in this system IMO. There’s too many other good players to not recognize their accomplishments.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Sep 25, 2008 11:09 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not always about

proof and I’m not recognizing achievements or honoring anyone for performance. I’m guessing at the ten most promising players in the system, and those aren’t always guys with much experience.

by zywica on Sep 26, 2008 12:01 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Most promising, but in some cases may not be as likely as others to beat attrition.

Just clarifying. No intent to imply something negative.

I kind of have the potential for impact multiplied by the likelihood to make it (as best as I can determine from what others are saying) when I make a list, and I give a little bump to athletic pitchers.

1. Feliz
2. Smoak
3. MaxRam
4. Dutch
5. Teagarden
6. Andrus
7. Perez
8. Main
9. NeRa
10. Beltre

I thought about Borbon at 10 rather than Beltre. I’m just not convinced that Borbon’s top is more than 4th OF, mostly because his bat looks weak.

Go Rangers!

by rooster on Sep 26, 2008 11:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

BiTA. It’s just my bias when it comes to prospects.

by zywica on Sep 27, 2008 12:05 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

BITA+

Quick, rank the catchers in terms of bita theory. I’d go (in order of how much they’d potentially bite you) Tea, Ramirez, Salty, Laird. If Salty had stayed healthy and made some progress this year he’d be no. 1. Ramirez only behind Tea because of my doubts about his defense letting him stick at catcher long term.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 12:15 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

BiTA

What does it stand for?

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 27, 2008 11:40 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Bite in The Ass

"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2

by Rodney on Sep 27, 2008 11:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It's Z's rule of thumb for which guy to trade

which guy do you fear coming back to bite you in the ass most if he fulfills his potential on another team?

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 1:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

BITA+

I’d rank Max first in terms of the bita theory. I think that Salty and Tea have ceilings that would make them above average catchers, though the two of them would obviously reach that ceiling in entirely different ways (Tea w/ elite defense and slightly above average stick for the position, Salty w/ elite bat and average defense at the position). I think Max’s ceiling is one of the premier run producers in the game, and I’d rather have that than even a top 5 catcher in the game.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 27, 2008 1:42 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

IOW

I think Bengie Molina is a very valuable player, but I’d much rather have Manny Ramirez.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 27, 2008 1:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The only constant in that group for me

is Laird is last in BITA. The other three could turn out much better or much worse, though Max’s bat seems the most likely to have at least some value among the three.

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 27, 2008 2:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Salty, MaxRam, Teagarden, Laird

BITA+ is the main thing that Saltalmacchia has going for him.

by zywica on Sep 27, 2008 2:05 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Mine is similar to yours.

1. Feliz
2. Smoak
3. Dutch
4. Andrus
5. Main
6. Beltre
7. Perez
8. Teagarden
9. M Ramirez
10. Beavan

by LiamP on Sep 25, 2008 11:12 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah

I think I like yours better than Z’s. But I’m a Tea fanboy and I’m down on Max and Kiker for ‘feel’ reasons. I like Beltre as y’all do. I’m leary of Font and a Beavan fanboy a bit, but Main has really grown on me despite 2 toddling baby-steps seasons. Perez and Boscan seemed like mirror images in the Boise videos.

USC lost. Good duck.

by shroomer on Sep 25, 2008 11:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Top 10

Put yours up, mang.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 26, 2008 12:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

krap

Me and my big mouth.

1-Holland
2-Feliz

That’s the only way I’d probably be different than most. I saw Holland pitch once and Feliz twice. Holland seemed much more likely to hit a lofty ceiling and cruise than Feliz, IMO. Feliz throws harder, but Holland’s polish sold me. Also, the the daggers he was shooting into the chirpy SA dugout after giving up a HR gave me tingles. Our choir boy has no back down in him. Awesome athlete. Bigger than you’d think up close. Lezotte befriended him during the long Clinton roadtrips and said he was an absolutely awesome human bean. I noticed Andrus was mindful to lean into Feliz whenever he had a chance and encourage him. Nobody needed to support Holland that way.

by shroomer on Sep 26, 2008 1:59 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

feliz

one thing to consider about him is just how young he is for his level. The guy jumped from low A to AA, so him needing encouragement here or there doesnt bother me.

I never got to see feliz this year other than tv but saw holland, and he didnt have his best stuff that day and still mowed people down.

I’d probably go the opposite of your ranks purely on upside

1, Feliz
2 Holland

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Sep 26, 2008 8:07 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know if I disagree with that

Feliz still has plenty of time to polish his stuff to match Holland’s, but right now I think I’m leaning towards Holland who has shown better control and from what I understand, better secondary pitches.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg1 on Sep 26, 2008 8:47 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

haha human bean.

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 27, 2008 10:56 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It'll be different tomorrow, probably, but

1. Feliz
2. Holland
3. Smoak
4. Andrus
5. Main
6. Perez
7. Ramirez
8. Teagarden
9. Beltre
10. Boscan

In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.

by t ball on Sep 25, 2008 11:38 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Off the top of my head

1. Dutch
2. Feliz
3. Smoak
4. Andrus
5. Maxatron
6. M-Per
7. Main
8. Beavan
9. Beltre
10. Bourbon (In a very close one over Tea… I’m actually thinking right now that I should change it, but… nah.)

Can’t wait ‘till the off season CPP. It’s gonna be a crazy list. Figure I’ll start it up not too long after the World Series ends.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 26, 2008 3:26 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

wow

dutch first! impressive

mine:

1-feliz
2-holland
3-smoak
4-andrus
5-perez
6-main
7-max ram
8-beltre
9- teagarden
10- rotates…thank goodness i dont have to make my mind up THAT much

"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich

by knockoutking on Sep 26, 2008 7:46 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

re: Dutch over Feliz

I love me some Neftali, but Dutch’s K/BB ratio is just so damn beautiful. It dominates my thoughts while I’m awake, and it haunts my dreams on those rare occasions I actually get to sleep. I think about his K/BB ratio in ways that no man should ever think about another man’s K/BB ratio. I wanna take his K/BB ratio out for nice seafood dinner and never call it again. I should stop talking about his K/BB ratio now.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 26, 2008 8:48 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Heh.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 26, 2008 9:00 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs