2008 Rangers Catcher (who to keep for next year)
We’ve known all year that the Rangers have a really difficult decision to make. They have 4 guys that can hit as good or better than an average catcher. They have some guys that have the ability to play multiple positions. Point is, they have 4 major league caliber catchers when they need no more than 2, and really they can dump 3 of them and pick up a veteran out of the trash heap (a guy that can hit lefties if Laird is dealt?). And their max value is at catcher, none are particularly valuable at any other position. The question is who to keep and who to dump, along with how many? Before looking into this I really have no opinion on who to keep (I have had many opinions, but they changed weekly). We know what Laird is capable of. Salty, we have a good idea of, but he's also the youngest. He can't throw anybody out but he can hit, he started slow but really turned it around before getting injured. Teagarden and Maxram haven’t gotten really good long looks, but I’ll still post their info just to get some kind of look. Will look at team win/loss with player, batting, throwing out base runners, club era with player, fielding %, and throwing errors. For Maxram and Teagarden I’ll also post their minor league batting stats. These stats are for comparison and to my best ability are accurate, but i cannot guarrantee that there isn't any errors. I've posted links at the bottom to check up on.
team wins/losses (will include melhuse so games add up)
games and position distribution:
Now for team records with certain catchers in the game. I'm going to include all games played with at least 3 at bats for the wins and losses. Mainly because I'm too lazy to bring up the boxscores for all 120+games to see where they played when. Since we have some guys that DH'd or played a corner infield, some of these games would have 2 of the guys in them.
That adds up to 79-79 (.500)
The rangers are 0-4 (.000) when no catcher gets 3 at bats.
The rangers finished 79-83 (.488).
There is no clear supreme player in this regard. Teagarden as the best record, but got 3 ab's in only 10 games and any win loss is a 10% swing. Same thing for maxram. Both Teagarden and Maxram are essentially .500 on the year. We can say the same for melhuse, except he sucked. Laird and Salty both performed above the Rangers record, over the course of a full season, they Laird has Salty beat by 3 wins.
HITTING
Laird for his career is a good hitter against lefties (better than righties even), what happened this year? This season, Laird was the only one that was acceptable against lefties. All hit very well against rigthies. Laird, Salty and Maxram mostly hit in the 8 spot, Teagarden in the 9 spot. Laird was the worst hitter considerably against righties, but also the best by a considerable amount against lefties. Teagarden was just amazing in his short time.
Teagarden went to AAA after Salty got called up after the Melhuse injury (if I remember correctly). Maxram stayed behind in AA despite hitting much better. When Laird (I think) went on the DL, Maxram got called up and skipped AAA. Teagarden went to the big club after Salty went on the DL and Maxram went up to AAA. Maxram got called up to the bigs again when rosters expanded. This gave the big team 3 catchers on the roster. Neither hit GREAT in AAA, but neither was THAT bad, look at Teagarden’s OBP despite his AVG. Maxram tore up AA while Teagarden wasn’t good and actually improved in AAA.Overall Maxram hit quite a bit better.
THROWING OUT RUNNERS
The numbers favor Laird. Salty was abysmal, how bad would it be if he caught for the Padres? Maxram was slightly better than Salty, but you'll notice how many attempts were made in a short time against him, teams don’t respect his arm. Teagarden was respectable.
CLUB ERA
Self-explanatory. Laird and Salty are a push, Teagarden was much better than all of them. Maxram was worse than Melhuse (6.86) An interesting thing about Maxram. From July 2 to the 19th he played in 7 games. Salty played in 6 games. In 6 of Maxram’s 7 games, the Rangers gave up 9 or more runs. In 2 of Salty’s 6 games the Rangers gave up 9, so I don’t think the staff hitting a rough patch is a usable excuse. Inexperience could be an excuse however, I guess.
FIELDING %
Another Win by Laird, followed closely by Maxram. Salty is a way back, and then Teagarden brought up the rear.
Wild pitches and passed balls
Teagarden has numbers comparable to Kurt Suzuki and Jason Varitek here. Laird is about average, maybe a little above average. Salty is below average to bad. And Maxram is really bad here.
Throwing Errors (from hardballtimes)
Laird just absolutely demolishes the competition here. Salty of course was last, surprisingly he's tied for last...with Teagarden.
//
That's it. I am not drawing any conclusions here, that's up to anybody to do and post them here hopefully. Below are links to where I got the stats and there are so many more stats i didn't include.
http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/9/12/613057/charting-the-organization (zywica article on lsb)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/l/lairdge01.shtml (laird baseball-reference)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/saltaja01.shtml (salty baseball-reference)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/melhuad01.shtml (melhuse baseball-reference)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/teagata01.shtml (teagarden baseball-reference)
http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/ramirma03.shtml (maxram baseball-reference)
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/maximiliano-ramirez.shtml (maxram baseballcube)
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/T/taylor-teagarden.shtml (teagarden baseballcube)
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/fielding?team=tex#c (espn rangers defensive stats)
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/?lastName=laird&firstName= (laird hardball times)
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/index.php?playerId=5039&firstName=Maximiliano%20R&lastName=Ramirez (maxram hardball times)
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/index.php?lastName=teagarden (teagarden hardball times)
http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstats/main/player/?playerId=5557&firstName=Jarrod%20S&lastName=Saltalamacchia (salty hardball times)
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1698&position=C (laird fangraphs page)
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5557&position=C (salty fangraphs page)
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5199&position=C (teagarden fangraphs page)
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=5039&position=C (maxram fangraphs page)
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Comments
Lotta info there
I say deal Laird fo sho and only trade Salty IF AND ONLY IF a Clay Buchholz/Homer Bailey/almost any Marlin pitcher is coming our way.
All those stats are nice
and thanks for the work you put into this, but those stats are kind of meaningless due to sample size. You can’t judge Max and Tea on 12 games. They’re going to have to take a leap of faith with anyone but Laird. They pretty much know what he is now. You trade whoever brings back the best price.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
re:
You trade whoever brings back the best price.
Yup.
Unless, of course, it’s Max ;)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 29, 2008 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Teams will be calling for Teagarden.
Suppose the “best price” can be had with him. Would you mind Gerald Laird or Jarrod Saltalamachhia being your ’09 catcher?
Or have those guys run their course here?
by oc on Sep 29, 2008 9:28 PM CDT up reply actions
No I wouldn't mind either of those guys
I’d prefer Salty to Laird for obvious offensive upside-related reasons, but Salty and Laird are both fine catchers to roll with full time, imo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 29, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions
You are safe
Young DH’s don’t fetch much.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Let me ass you a question
if we were bereft of backstops rather than lousy with them, would you still consider Max a DH?
In other words, do you think of Max as a DH because you feel we have better options at catcher, or do you just plain think he can’t be good enough defensively to be a passable major league catcher?
Or do you just think that everyone sucks all the time cause you’re DJ Cahizzle? ;)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
by thedirkatron on Sep 30, 2008 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Max is years away
if ever from being a legitimate defensive Catcher. If he was the everyday catcher, he’d be amongst the worst defensively in the league.
It’s not necessarily his fault, because throwing someone in at the Catching position, and expecting them to handle it at the major league level 3 years later after maybe catching 350 games as a pro is not the smartest plan.
If they want Max as catcher, they should send him down to the minors to catch every day.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
But then...
You get all these “Whys Max not DHing” and “Stupid front office leaving a guy like Max in the minors” arguments. I agree thats where he should be next year however.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I don't agree
Just make him a DH now instead of wasting time trying to turn him into a catcher. He’s a hitter who’s bat is ready, use him that way now. It’s a waste of his talent to stick him in the minors for another 120 games or so. If he’s not a catcher after 350 games then I don’t know that he’ll be that much better after another season.
A 24-yr. old DH capable of putting up an .800 OPS for the league minimum is a nice thing to have.
In essentials, unity. In non-essentials, liberty. In all things, love.
Yeah,
that’s the issue with Max. His bat appears to be major league ready, but you really can’t have him catch 100 games a year right now. DH, emergency 3rd Catcher, backup 1B, backup 3B may be his best slot.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Thats where I disagree
I don’t think Max is ML ready yet. I think this past year he feasted off AA pitching because he was 23 years old and was primarily DH. His numbers when he went to AAA and the majors and actually played catcher were alright but nowhere near the 1000+ OPS he put up in Frisco. I think alot of people are blinded by that number and feel he can automatically come up and dominate like that. I think if he was brought up and used as strictly a DH/emergency catcher he could put up an OPS around .800. But im not talking catch a couple times a week emergency catcher. Im talking your other two get hurt in that same game and you have to use him otherwise Kinsler would be back there emergency catcher.
But doing that would eliminate his biggest advantage. DHs who have .800 OPS are alot easier to find than catchers who have .800 OPS. If you switched him to DH it should eliminate him from the catching discussion. Then we would only have three. You could still trade one but if we keep Max as catcher we could trade two and get better returns. With the Smoak/Davis conundrum approaching in a year or so DH is not necessarily a position I want to lock up with a young guy just yet. Let Max stay in the minors all year next year and catch 6 days a week. Then either trade him or we will have a much clearer picture as to the DH/C situation next winter.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
The average AL DH
hit a 774 OPS last year. A guy who can throw out a 800 OPS has value, especially if you expect him to improve with more time in the league.
Obviously he would have more value if he could catch, but, he does have value as a 800 OPS DH, especially if we aren’t re-signing Bradley.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
I totally get that
But I think its easier to find a DH who can give you those kind of numbers rather than sticking a young guy in that position and taking away what could be his greatest asset to us. His trade value. With the Smoak/Davis crunch approaching in a year or so we may have our young power hitting DH in one of those. A power hitting catcher, even average defensively, has more trade value than a DH or 1B.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
I think
that hoping you will be able to develop him defensively at his age is a fairly optimistic thought.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
I really could care less about developing him defensively
But if we can keep him as a full time catcher and his bat stays the same he can be a very very valuable trade chip and that could be more beneficial to us long term than him at DH.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
Nice post...
this topic has been beaten to death, but you include a lot of info there for people to look at.
Personally, I’m starting to lean towards keeping all catchers except Laird. OMFT just needs to go.
Salty’s value is down because of the injury and his performance. I deal him if overwhelemed, but I don’t think any team will do that right now. He starts with the Rangers next year as the 2nd catcher.
TT is the Rangers starter next year in my eyes. His defense is superior and his bat looked surprisingly good in limited ML time. Beware the short sample size, but I think he can hit well enough to justify starting him because of his defense. You only deal him if a young ace is on the table imo.
MaxRam starts the year in OKC. He hasn’t got a lot of AAA AB’s and can still work on his defense there. I’m not ready to give up on him catching yet. Remember he hasn’t been doing it for long.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
I agree on TT
but I doubt that the Rangers again let Salty play as the backup. I’d rather see him in OKC getting to play regularly with Max being the main DH and backing up Salty at Catcher.
In reference to how good the Steelers have been in their history: "No one is even close to them."- Steal Home
+1/2
I agree with you on everything except annointing Teagarden the starter next year. His September performance was phenomonal, but Wash wouldn’t let him behind the plate hardly at all for the last week or so of the season so it was even more of an abbreviated performance than it should have been – and one impressive September does not make a starter (see JR Towles (Astros) and Daric Barton (A’s) if you want some recent examples of September superstars).
I still think Salty has the highest ceiling of any of our catchers, but at this point I don’t think you should prioritize any of our young catchers over the others. Give them all the best chance you can in ‘09 and let things run it’s course. To make that happen though, you’ve got to get rid of Laird this offseason.
"M’s fans are such weenies." - Zywica
Like I've said before
and before the DMN Rangers blog that had this debate awhile back asking questions with all the usual suspects… Jamey, Hindman, Adam. Evan, etc.
I’ve said we should keep Laird and TT for next year. We should trade Max and try and dump Salty for something.
A Texas Designer's Map of the World
seriously, another one?
the best choice is to trade salty and laird for pitchers, start TT and keep Max
"Tommy Hunter will be the best pitcher on the Rangers in 2009" Me- August 14th, 2008
To: Luis Mendoza "Please die in a fire." LSJ; PLEASE
Gagree
I might still leave Max in AAA and get a vet to back up Sweet Tea. I just think Laird needs to go and I dont feel Salty has shown enough to entrust the full time catchiing gig. But, he still has value and I really think he ( and Laird also ) just need a change of scenery
I know we have some real farm experts here. Is there another wave of catchers coming after the big 4 we have now?

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