Can JD undo the deal?

by pbpsean on Sep 3, 2008 5:23 PM CDT

"If the Padres are so cost-conscious that they must discard an effective hitter like Giles, it may make sense to go all-in and sell off the young veterans too. Gonzalez and Peavy are currently at peak value given their salaries, age, and performance. Kouzmanoff and Young also have good trade value, though Greene is at a low point."

Since so many Rangers "fans" can't get past the Eaton/Otsuka for Young/Gonzalez/Sledge deal that began JD's tenure in Arlington, I had a brainstorm after reading the above blogpost today.

How about JD tries to "make up" for that deal by doing a blockbuster:

Jake Peavy, Chase Headley and Chris Young in exchange for Matt Harrison, Salty, Elvis Andrus, John Mayberry Jr. and another pitcher not named Feliz or Holland?

Or maybe Peavy, Headley, Young and Gonzalez for Harrison, Padilla, Salty, Andrus, Mayberry and Davis?

Obviously this only works if the Padres pack it in for 09 (which I don't think they should do). If somehow Peavy is available, THAT is the pitcher to use the farm system to acquire and we would STILL have enough pieces to trade for another ML ready pitcher from Florida or San Francisco.

Lets discuss and see if we can craft a deal that would work for both parties.

1 recs | Comment 46 comments

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not gonna happen.

there is no chance in hell we could acquire both Peavy and Young from the Padres.

"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "

by Walter Sobchak on Sep 3, 2008 5:33 PM CDT 0 recs

if there is a chance,

it would include Feliz

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Sep 3, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up 0 recs

and Beavan, Main and Holland

by uthornfan on Sep 4, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up 0 recs

There is no chance in hell that the Padres will make that trade.

It would take your first offer to get Peavy alone not including the rest of them and the second one if they are tryin to dump salary why take Padilla.
No chance and your GM career is over.

by CRUSHDAVIS on Sep 3, 2008 5:34 PM CDT 0 recs

You crazy man!

Even for Peavy alone, they’d want at least one of Feliz/Holland.

by chrisR on Sep 3, 2008 5:47 PM CDT 0 recs

For Peavy

you include one of those two.

by robert_d_wilfong on Sep 3, 2008 6:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

you prolly would

But might not have to if you include Kinsler and/or Davis

Kinsler, Salty, Andrus, Harrison, and Beavan

by Baseball North on Sep 3, 2008 6:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

actually

that wont be enough

by Baseball North on Sep 3, 2008 6:34 PM CDT up 0 recs

Nope

They’d probably want a ML-ready catcher, Feliz or Holland, a CF prospect, and another mid-level pitching prospect (their No.3 starter is Cha Seung Baek).

So: Teagarden or Salty, Feliz or Holland, Borbon, and say….Tommy Hunter.

by chrisR on Sep 3, 2008 7:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

For Just Peavy?

Seems high.

by FuturePants on Sep 4, 2008 10:18 AM CDT up 0 recs

That's high

for any player.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 10:34 AM CDT up 0 recs

That's why I wrote

That “they” would probably want that big of a return.
To them, he is an ace who is signed through 2013. Still 27.

by chrisR on Sep 4, 2008 1:10 PM CDT up 0 recs

no more trading any some-what significant pitching prospect

I give up

by Steal Home on Sep 3, 2008 6:00 PM CDT 0 recs

Not even

for Peavy? It seems to me that if you can get him and have a reasonable chance of signing him, that’s a guy worth giving up something to get. I can’t imagine the Pads are shopping him yet, but why wouldn’t you enquire, and why wouldn’t you be willing to give up (merely) promising prospects for top young talent that’s made the leap to the majors successfully?

by rodinuk on Sep 3, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up 0 recs

This post is funny

But it’s also kind of sad that some people still dwell on that trade.

This line here though takes the cake:

Jake Peavy, Chase Headley and Chris Young in exchange for Matt Harrison, Salty, Elvis Andrus, John Mayberry Jr. and another pitcher not named Feliz or Holland?

LMAFO!!!!!

A Lonestar in California

We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.

by lonestarJon on Sep 3, 2008 6:21 PM CDT 0 recs

I figured you would say...

…that you would need way more than just Jake Peavy for Salty.

Warner Madrigal makes Ezequiel Astacio look downright handsome.

by tricer on Sep 3, 2008 8:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

Peavy is one of the best starters in the NL

Last time I looked, Joba was just coming off the DL and back in the bullpen.

A Lonestar in California

We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.

by lonestarJon on Sep 3, 2008 8:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

LMAFO?

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 4, 2008 1:57 AM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah, I was waiting for someone to notice the transposition

I guess it could still stand for Laughing My Ass Fucking Off, although that sounds kind of dirty…

A Lonestar in California

We need to hire Chuck Norris to kick the ass of any Ranger fan caught booing one of our young pitchers at the RBiA.

by lonestarJon on Sep 4, 2008 4:47 AM CDT up 0 recs

Not outrageous.

Exchange Young (add another pitcher) and look at what the Padres get…
Harrison (ML ready pitcher), Salty (ML ready catcher), Andrus (could insert Arias if they want an ML ready SS), Mayberry Jr. (they need a corner outfielder) and another pitcher (we have what almost 20 legit prospects and we can’t find one to give them).

That is 3 major league ready players if Arias is included, an outfielder a year away and a pitcher probably two years away. That is not a bad haul for Peavy. And with the minimum deals the haul will receive you will be able to make a run at Sabathia without adding too much payroll EVEN in San Diego.

If Borbon is in fact ready for the majors, send them Beltre. I think the Padres would do that deal.

Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!

by pbpsean on Sep 4, 2008 7:38 AM CDT up 0 recs

All you want is ML ready players?

Well hell lets just give them Drew Meyer, Joaquin Arias, Elizardo Ramirez, Kam Loe, and Bill White. Thats 5 ML ready players 3 of them pitchers. They would never be able to turn that down.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Sep 4, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up 0 recs

Oh Dear God!!

For Peavy, try Feliz, Davis, Salty, Andrus, and Kiker

For Peavy AND Young, try Feliz, Kinsler, Davis, Salty, Andrus, and Harrison

That would be counter offer from SD

Thanks for the laugh though, I really needed it

by Baseball North on Sep 3, 2008 6:27 PM CDT 0 recs

even that might not do it

by Baseball North on Sep 3, 2008 6:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

wow you are the biggest in underrating our propspects

i guess we should have gotten 2 feliz’s and 2 andrus’s for tex

I give up

by Steal Home on Sep 3, 2008 6:33 PM CDT up 0 recs

heh

If you really think Chris Young is worth Kinsler, then that’s, um, odd.

But you’re point about Peavy’s value is well made. Even with the PETCO advantage the fact remains that he’s a young stud locked into a reasonable long term contract. His career FIP is 3.47, which is good, though not nearly as great as his PETCO influenced numbers would seem to indicate.

If we traded Feliz, Davis, Salty, Andrus and Kiker for Peavy I’d hate crime JD so freaking hard. There’s not a pitcher in the league I’d do that deal for, including Lincecum.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 4, 2008 2:07 AM CDT up 0 recs

Don't need them to do a deal

They don’t need Davis (have Gonzalez) and we can give quantity instead of Feliz or Holland.

Salty, Andrus, Kiker would be a fine with me. Throw in Mayberry, Beltre and another pitcher for Peavy and an MLB ready bullpen arm and/or Young and you have a deal.

Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!

by pbpsean on Sep 4, 2008 8:17 AM CDT up 0 recs

Peavy

is one of the pitchers that I would be willing to include Davis, Salty AND Andrus from the position side, which might keep them away from the Big 2… you definitely have to factor in the Ballpark factors, but even that withholding Peavy would instantly be the best pitcher this organization has had in 2 decades or more

Lincecum also falls into that category, of course we can dream about guys like Webb and Zambrano, but their teams have to desire to trade them

Guys like Peavy, Lincecum, and F. Hernandez, are on teams that can benefit greatly from their trade value to shore up multiple holes on the remainder of their team

by Baseball North on Sep 4, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up 0 recs

Forget Young then

I just included him because of the title of the thread. I wanted discussion.

If the Padres aren’t going to compete in 09, then they don’t need Peavy. Same thought as with the Giants. They have so many holes they should trade one or two of their pitchers to overhaul their roster.

When you can potentially fill 4 or 5 holes for one player, you should do it (i.e: Tex trade).

Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!

by pbpsean on Sep 4, 2008 7:40 AM CDT up 0 recs

Teixiera trade was great

especially when compared to what Atlanta got now

I just don’t see San Diego not asking for at least Feliz, Davis, Salty and Andrus…

Peavy is signed through 2012, at a reasonable deal

by Baseball North on Sep 3, 2008 6:37 PM CDT 0 recs

(reply to steal home)

by Baseball North on Sep 3, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

Why on earth would we want Young back?

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Sep 3, 2008 6:54 PM CDT 0 recs

Good point steve. Here is why I don't want Young back-

I think Young has shown that he is injury prone. Sure he is a good three/four pitcher and he could probably be better if healthy, but I think JD wont trade anyone of our prospects for an injury prone type pitcher. He had a shaky ending when he pitched here and people were questioning if he would hold up for a whole season and I think our people actually were right on.

The only part of that whole trade that bugs me is A-Gon. Damn our lineup would have looked good right now. Not to mention the thought of trading davis wouldn’t be so tuff on me.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Sep 3, 2008 7:36 PM CDT up 0 recs

We'd be buying low on him

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 3, 2008 8:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

Chris Young is a LAIE

Nothing more, nothing less.

If we’re gonna trade a package for a pitcher I want a guy with ace or at least #2-type potential. A guy capable of putting up a sub-4 ERA when not pitching half his games in the place where hits go to die would be nice.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 4, 2008 1:59 AM CDT 0 recs

True

If you are going to package 4 players from our top 10, who would instantly be the best prospects in many organizations, you definitely want an Ace

The Rangers have been notoriously good at producing hitters, and you all know the pitching thing… this is where it makes sense to trade Davis… Davis, Andrus, Salty, and a pitcher is a package that shoots the following deals out of the water… CC, Haren, and Santana

So, in theory that package should be able to get someone close to that caliber

by Baseball North on Sep 4, 2008 9:01 AM CDT up 0 recs

Exactly Baseball North...

Tex trade was great and allows us the depth to do this deal. Would you have traded Tex for Peavy straight up… YUP!

So start with Salty (we have TT) and Andrus (we have Lemon and Arias), then add Beltre (we have Borbon), Harrison (MLB ready pitcher) and Boscan (system depth). And that would be for just Peavy and another MLB ready bullpen type arm. If you put Young in the deal, just add Mayberry and another starting pitcher.

They don’t need Davis because they have Gonzalez. I don’t necessarily like Young, but we could bring him home, admit the mistake and let him work with Nolan. See what happens.

BECAUSE Peavy is controlled through 2012, THAT is why I overpay for him! And by the time we get to 2012, many of our kids will be ready or already here so we can let Peavy go back to San Diego if he wants.

Using our system depth, why not be aggressive and have a rotation in 09 of:
Peavy, Sanchez (SF), McCarthy, Young and Feldman. Then you could allow Hunter, Holland and Feliz get ready in OKC next year only coming up for spot starts when necessary.

San Diego has so many holes (SS, CF, LF, 3B, C) that they SHOULD do a deal like this. San Francisco has so many holes THEY should do a deal like this for Cain. Hell San Diego then could make an unexpected run at Sabathia to replace Peavy and be just fine salary-wise.

Go Cubbies and Go Rangers!

by pbpsean on Sep 4, 2008 8:13 AM CDT 0 recs

you're right about

the Peavy for Tex trade, at the time though

But the players involved in the Tex trade have had one full year to mature… no one would trade those same 5 players now for Tex, those five players can now be enough for Peavy.

If San Diego has the holes you claim, then hopefully Andrus (SS), Salty ©, Borbon (CF), Harrison, and Kiker/Hunter could be enough… that would fill up 60% of their needs going forward, including two potential 3-4 type starters

by Baseball North on Sep 4, 2008 8:50 AM CDT up 0 recs

Some thoughs

If you are trading an ace, you want a pitcher with ace potential in return. Harrison is a mid rotation guy and Boscan is so far away no one knows what he is. If they are trading Peavy, they are not doing it without Feliz. What you suggest is not clearly overpaying for Peavey.

San Diego also doesn’t have all of those weaknesses. Headley, who you think we could trade for, is their 3B of the future. Or they just drafted James Darnell and Logan Forsythe out of SEC schools. One of the three of them will be their future 3B. Khalil Greene can’t hit, but he is a solid defender at shortstop. They have other positions they need to improve before they worry about SS. San Diego also has Cedric Hunter who should man one of the corner outfield spots, most likely LF, in 2010/2011. They do need a CF if Hunter has to move to a corner and they need a catcher, so you got that part right.

They aren’t trading one of the top 3-4 pitchers in all of baseball without getting an ace or a surefire All-Star, none of which we would be including in the deal.

by uthornfan on Sep 4, 2008 11:44 AM CDT up 0 recs

Is a Beckett/Peavy comparison reasonable?

Didn’t Beckett pull Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez?

I think I’d say Peavy is more highly regarded than Beckett, but Davis, Salty, Feliz, Harrison seems like ALOT more than Boston gave up.

I know the economics concerning pitchers have changed the last few years, but that still seems like quite a bit to give up.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Sep 4, 2008 11:58 AM CDT 0 recs

yep

Beckett was also what 21, 22 years old? Peavy is good theres no questioning that. but some of these ideas are so far fetched its laughable. It would take one of Feliz and Holland and then probably either davis or Andrus and maybe a low level high ceiling guy. I still wouldn’t do it but thats probably what you are looking at.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Sep 4, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up 0 recs

Another comp that might not be the same

is Bartolo Colon when he was traded to the Expos.

He pulled in Lee, Sizemore, and Phillips — that obviously was a ton of talent going Cleveland’s way, but at the same time Phillips was a long way off.

If Peavy would be traded (which I seriously doubt), I don’t think it would take 4 of Davis, Andrus, Feliz, Holland, Harrison, or Hurley.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Sep 4, 2008 12:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think it would take that much

because Peavey is under team control for three more years. If they are selling this early, you are going to have to blow them away with an offer or else they just keep him and wait until someone does blow them away. There is no way they do the deal without getting a prospect with front of the rotation potential and a couple of other very high ceiling guys. The suggestion someone made earlier in the thread that we could do the deal with Harrison being the best pitching prospect we have to give up is laughable. I like Harrison, but he is not the ace that San Diego is looking for.

by uthornfan on Sep 4, 2008 12:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

Beckett

wasn’t he under team control longer than Peavy would be, and at a cheaper price?

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Sep 4, 2008 12:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

Possibly

I don’t remember. The Marlins had to trade him though because their front office decided to trade every good player they had. The Padres haven’t made that decision. And while Beckett had been very good for the Marlins, he hadn’t been as good as Peavey has been. I am not saying one pitcher is better than the other, I am saying that the Padres aren’t going to trade Peavey unless they are blown away.

by uthornfan on Sep 4, 2008 12:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

Lowell

There was also the “salary dump” of Lowell… so in theory that brought DOWN Beckett’s value

by Baseball North on Sep 4, 2008 12:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

Well, I agree

They are different situations. But, assuming the Padres decide he needs to be traded (a la Beckett), I doubt the price is as high as some are suggesting.

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Sep 4, 2008 12:55 PM CDT up 0 recs