Palin Speech Gameday thread.
Posts on the last one are approaching 700 and with the VP speech I can see it doubling so I decided to make a new thread. While I don't engage in any talk in these threads I genuinely enjoy seeing people duke it out and have legitimate arguments. Also to the non political savvy like myself, once you sift through the name calling you learn some stuff...
Quotes via Dstar:
Here’s a quote from the pre-released excerpts: "I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment. And I’ve learned quickly, these past few days, that if you’re not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone. But here’s a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I’m not going to Washington to seek their good opinion – I’m going to Washington to serve the people of this country. …"
ZING!
here’s a better one: "I had the privilege of living most of my life in a small town. I was just your average hockey mom, and signed up for the PTA because I wanted to make my kids’ public education better. When I ran for city council, I didn’t need focus groups and voter profiles because I knew those voters, and knew their families, too. Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown. And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves. I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a ‘community organizer,’ except that you have actual responsibilities. …"
ZING 2!!!
link: http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/03/excerpts-from-palin-speech-small-town-and-proud-of-it/
Stay Civil...
1 recs |
607 comments
Comments
If it's
Her contention that she did more as mayor than Obama did as an organizer, then I bet he’d love to have that debate.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 7:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm curious
if she was ever successful in banning books at the Wasilla library.
by SteveP on Sep 3, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
You have the whole internet at your disposal. Go!
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have to
Give a little to get a little.
Start up a blog, and be rewarded.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
question
Just what is a community organizer and what were his accomplishments?
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would like to know as well
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 4, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure
but I think Palin lost the coveted “community organizer” vote with that joke.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
well played
"This report of my death was an exaggeration"--Mark Twain
by rangerdanger on Sep 5, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, more seriously
Given that the GOP had a theme of “service” for the convention I find it odd that they used a line like that, which essentially belittles service at the community level.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I mean that was just hilarious...
You know, when they shit on people trying to make a difference in communities. That was awesome. Real American heroes, those Republicans.
What’s next, will they drop a hot steamy Cleveland Steamer on Police officers? How about some non-profit organizations?
Oh, it’s going to be awesome when they literally drop a deuce on Mother Theresa’s grave. I heard Palin has dibs on the first squat.
by cmkelly29 on Sep 5, 2008 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
they should have shit on small town mayors.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Sep 5, 2008 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, they've attacked her on her lack of political experience...
but did they laugh at the profession in front of a national audience?
The fact that so many people say “Haha, oh man.. what does a community organizer even do? What a crock job!” is quite sad.
It’s pretty much like saying “He worked for a Boys and Girls club! Haha! How pathetic! He was keeping kids off of the streets! Trying to help children with drug-addict parents! What a crock!”
It hits below the belt for people who do this kind of work.
Rudy Giuliani stood up there and laughed about it. Sarah Palin made jokes about it. It’s not really that funny.
Would it have been funny if one of the Democrats made jokes about one of McCain’s old roles?
“Ha! That dumb mother fucker got himself into a Vietnamese POW camp! What a fuckin’ idiot! Maybe if he wasn’t such a maverick, he wouldn’t have been caught!”
No, it’s not funny.
by cmkelly29 on Sep 5, 2008 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is how the game is played...
They attacked her lack of experience, she turns around and attacks his lack of experience.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Sep 5, 2008 3:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, they mocked the profession
saying there were no responsibilities involved.
by cmkelly29 on Sep 5, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They mocked her profession
saying the same thing.
Notice how no one brought up the fact that Obama was a “community organizer” until everyone started saying that being mayor of a tiny town in Alaska was a worthless job. They opened that line of attack – don’t be surprised when it gets deflected back at them.
by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
No, that’s not true.
The criticism wasn’t that being a mayor was a worthless job, or that being mayor of a small town was worthless. It was just that that job didn’t qualify one to be VP or President.
The Obama criticism was an indictment on “community organizers” as a whole group. If they had only said that community organizers aren’t per se qualified to be President, then that would be a valid criticism.
Not what happened, though.
by brettgardner on Sep 5, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
not from the Obama camp. They have mostly stuck to critiquing its preparedness. He’s been very smart and political in dealing with Palin. And to be fair, they never really touted Obama’s past as preparing him for anything either.
But from the other sources, there was definitely a condescension towards the job itself – both the mayorship (?) and being governor of Alaska. Obama has an issue with certain wings of his party, who vocalize things that muddle his message. He’s done an admirable job of keeping his campaign proper and fair in their critiques, but not so much with other democrats and liberals.
But whatever – no one could be surprised that she would come back with something like that. Its a fluffy job title – the type of things liberals love and conservatives hate. Red meat for the delegates, and offensive to liberals. But do you really think anyone who is out there to be wooed cares at all about that comment? I’m pretty sure anyone who considers themselves a “community organizer” is voting for Obama. And anyone who knows people who are “community organizers” are also probably voting for Obama.
by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I think you’re painting with a rather broad stroke, but no, I don’t think any community organizers were offended to the point of changing their votes.
That doesn’t make it valid criticism, though.
I agree with your point about the so-called “red meat”, but these conventions have expanded to beyond the die-hards in attendance. There’s a national audience, too, and not all of them are decided. I just think that critiques which have no substantive impact on the election are more than a little immature. Certainly, I don’t make the claim that that happens only within the McCain circle or at the RNC. Democrats are just as guilty.
I suppose my biggest rub was that with the DNC, all the speakers were unified in their message. Now, whether you think that message is valid or a bunch of bullshit, it was still pretty on target all the way to Obama.
McCain’s speech calling for bipartisanship and mending of fences struck me as a bit hollow coming after 2 nights of the most extreme partisanship one could ever hope to see.
by brettgardner on Sep 5, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palin would destroy Obama.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure she was a fine
mayor for the Meth capitol of Alaska. Begging Washington for more money. That helps the local economy so more folks can get their crank.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.
"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer
by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But P Diddy
said Alaska doesn’t have any crack-heads. This somehow make her unqualified for VP.
Ephesians 1:3-10
by kwellborn on Sep 4, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will take a while
To sort out the chunks from the cesspool that will be thrown. Too bad politics has sunk to finding ways to discredit the opponent rather than validate one’s own intentions. I’m really depressed about the negative characteristics of the two party system.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 8:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
In fairness
Other countries with stronger third parties have just as much bickering.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
other countries also have violence
""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley
by ab03 on Sep 3, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Local Governing
Leading a local government isn’t a real feather in your cap. While exceptions certainly apply, that is not a place for real intelligence (academic or common sense).
by e1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:21 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah.
I mean, have the people who are lauding her mayoral or city council experience ever actually spent any time at those institutions? Good Christ, it should be a negative.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong perception
The label of “mayor” or “councilman” seems to have this down-home connotation that isn’t supported by the actual experience. Especially in the metroplex our elected officials are driven by the same treacherous motives that the supposed “Washington insiders” have.
This country lives so much by the sound byte that we don’t even understand the bytes that are delivered.
by e1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much all politcs is a negative
I’m very wary of anyone who chooses that as a career path. Either they are obsessed with political minutiae (they are a nerd), they are power hungry, or they aer far too codependent about their fellow citizens. Either way, I’m not sure I want them making decisions that affect my life. (no offense, BG, as I guess this is what you do for a living…)
I guess a few of them are exceptions – thrust into office by circumstances beyond their control.
by JBImaknee on Sep 3, 2008 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No offense taken.
I don’t do anything for a living. I’m a student.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beware of Live Microphone
The roundtable didn’t didn’t realize their microphone was still on. Here is Chuck Todd, Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan’s real thoughts on Palin. I included the link in which you can listen to it.
Peggy Noonan, Wall Street Journal columnist and former Reagan speech writer, and Mike Murphy, writer for Time, McCain Advisor (soon to be former?) and contributor to MSNBC were speaking with MSNBC political director Chuck Todd.Murphy says, "This is not going to work.
Noonan adds, “It’s over.”
Then, Chuck Todd asks, “is this the most qualified woman they could have picked?”
Noonan replies, “The most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political bullshit about narratives. …Every time the Republicans do that, because that’s not where they live and it’s not what they’re good at, they blow it.”
Murphy adds, "You know what’s really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is no cynicism.
Chuck finishes his sentence— "and this is so cynical, and, as you called it, gimmicky. "
by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:22 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ooh.
Juicy. I love it. Thanks for the find.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
I completely agree with Murphy’s point about McCain.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too...
It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Still, I stand by my original thought that I would be happy with either of these guys as president. Especially with the other choices that were available (both this year and in the previous couple elections…)
by GhettoBear04 on Sep 3, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
from here on out
what will be pulled more? race card or sexism card
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Racism
Racism by far. Anyone that disagree’s needs to look up what happened in Penn. in the Democratic Primary when people told pollsters that they wouldn’t vote for Barack because he’s black.
by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Sexism Card
Will be pulled by McCain everytime Palin struggles but racism is very powerful and actually exsist in this election as I stated above
by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And black people wont vote for mccain
because hes white?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Why did
black people distrust Ronald Reagan? Because he was white? That is correct!"
by AirJordan on Sep 3, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet they trusted Bill Clinton
Hell I’m white and I never trusted Reagan not because he was white but because I really didn’t think he was qualified.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And you probably feel the
same about Obama too?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I'm a Obama supporter
Thank you for asking.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I thought you said above that you
cared about experience. LOL
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but...but...
war hero!
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you comparing JFK's experience to Obama's?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why we should stick to baseball
And stay away from this.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand why experience is such a big deal
Being a Senator or a Representative for x amount of years doesn’t contribute or count as executive experience. McCain being in the senate longer than Obama shouldn’t really make that much of a difference in this election.
by hiafex on Sep 3, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCain at least had
decision making responsibilities when he was in the military, controlling his squad and making tactical decisions. Obama has never done anything like that.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get what that has to do with anything
And that occurred like 30 years ago. Leave the tactical decisions up to the Generals and the Secretary of Defense. This isn’t a military dictatorship we’re talking about.
by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it isn't a military dictatorship
it shows that McCain has been in charge of something and had to make decisions by himself where he was responsible for the results of those decisions. That’s what the presidency is all about.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
And only those who are in the military make decisions and take responsibility for those decisions. The president doesn’t make decisions by himself, that’s why a cabinet is appointed.
by hiafex on Sep 5, 2008 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ultimately
he decides…
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 5, 2008 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he's likely not to go against his advisors opinions
Can you name some things that McCain made a decision on during his military escapades?
by hiafex on Sep 5, 2008 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
" McCain at least had
decision making responsibilities when he was in the military, controlling his squad and making tactical decisions. Obama has never done anything like that."
You’re saying Obama has never led anything or made important decisions in his lifetime?
by cmkelly29 on Sep 5, 2008 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's correct
I’m saying that he hasn’t made any decisions that bear responsibilities that are equitable to McCain’s.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 5, 2008 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a Chapelle show reference...
Just trying to be funny, didn’t work.
by AirJordan on Sep 3, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I never have watched that show
Although I hear its very good.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Buy them on DVD...
you won’t be disappointed
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
African Americans
They vote 90 percent Dem even with a white guy. So they usually vote Democratic anyways. Racism will be more powerful than sexism in this election. Several southern Dems will vote Republican in this election. Palin was a weak choice so they are going to pull the sexism card everytime she struggles
by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Southern states gave their electoral votes to
Kerry in 2004? Oh wait, none. Your argument is pretty irrelevant.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just like Blacks vote for
white guys according to you, southern states give their electoral votes to Republicans…
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um....
I didn’t say that he’s going to win a southern state. I said several Southerrn Dems will not vote for Barack. 90 percent of African Americans vote for Dem anyway. So you need to read my comments again before you can argue. Racism is more powerful if you disagree than you are in the tank for McCain.
by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you said that....
but see the election works off of an electoral system. It doesn’t matter if 49% or 0% of Southern Dems vote Democrat. As long as they’re in the minority, they still lose.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think obama has a shot at virginia
and i think he has a shot at new mexico and colorado. i believe that if all other states stay the same, that gets him the election. he should still campaign in florida, michigan, minnesota, new hampshire and ohio just in case though.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
i think he spends a ton of time in Virginia, and that alone is why I was surprised he didn’t go with Kaine.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Sep 3, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
the mistake of the media (an myself included) pointing at palin’s experience taking obama’s lack there of off the table is that it compares obama to the VP nominee and not to mcsame.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obama
If the election were held today he would win New Mexico and Iowa. He only needs to carry Colorado or Viriginia (If he carries all the Kerry states). Right now Obama has a 64% chance of winning in Colorado and 61% in Virginia.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/
by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would LOVE
for him to win missouri. if i’m not mistaken i think the winner of missouri and arkansas wins the presidency going back to 1968
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Missouri has voted for the winning president
every time except for 1956- voted Stevenson over Eisenhower- since 1904. now thats a good streak…..
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
those numbers are about to change drastically
in an hour. For better or worse.
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
drastically?
a little dramatic.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think so?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
not really
i guess if her speech is really really good, it may help mccain a little.
if it’s boring it won’t really help at all
if it’s bad it may hurt a little.
the only way it would change things a lot is if she said Heil Hitler in it.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I happen to agree with Agreen here
I think that in some weird way, McCain’s chances hinge on a good performance here. If she falters, then all those charges of being unready and a weak choice get solidified, dooming her to Ferraro and Quayle-dom. If she excels, then the criticisms suddenly seem silly and overdone (almost immunizing her from future criticism) Fair? No. But this is her first impression – it will stick.
And people will be watching tonight. Maybe not as many as watched Obama, but far more than will watch McCain tomorrow night.
by JBImaknee on Sep 3, 2008 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha, as I predicted
from Drudge
37,244,000 WATCHED PALIN SPEECH … [38,379,000 WATCHED OBAMA]… MORE…
by JBImaknee on Sep 4, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Racism play more of a role?
Please. This sounds like you are setting yourself up for an “If Obama loses, its because people are racist” argument. There are a lot of reasons that Obama may lose, race isn’t one of them.
Frankly, while it makes a lot of political sense for people to try to label their opponents’ campaigns as sexist or racist, there is almost no way that is real. The Hillary-Obama sexist/racist argument was a joke (nothing Bill Clinton said was racist, and Hillary was never treated badly for being a woman – she was treated badly for not being Obama).
There are a lot of fair critiques of McCain and Obama, none of them have to do with race. There are a lot of fair critiques of Palin and Biden, none of them have to do with gender.
by JBImaknee on Sep 3, 2008 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um...
Yes, it does. Go look online when there are KKK websites that are warning Obama if he wins he will get assassinated. A couple of idiot’s tried to kill him last week. Race is more powerful than gender. On down ballot races the Dems have a 10-15 percent lead in this election and Obama’s lead is a lot less than that. We will never have the scientific evidence to prove it deals with race but if you are a realist than you would come to the conclusion that the color of skin is having an impact. If you think race is not going to play a role in this election than you are living in another world.
by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tried to kill him last week?
Where’d you get that from?
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
some nutbag got arrested
for plotting to kill him
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
had a bunch of guns in the trunk or something
…if I’m not mistaken.
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
at one point
kerry carried 88% of african americans in 04
and 89% of african americans said they would vote for obama
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 4, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
fwiw
theres still ppl who wont vote for palin because shes a woman, or mccain because he is white…
"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich
by knockoutking on Sep 4, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think we can all agree
that romney is a scheister and is not to be trusted.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
rudy is a scheister too
not quite as bad as romney though
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meh...
they both are but Rudy is the bottom of the barrel in my book.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rudy
He’s smearing Obama pretty badly. That dude makes me sick.
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
he has some pretty bad sarcasm
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He had the audacity...
…to condemn Obama for joining the political machine in Chicago (which isn’t true).
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you are right
Obama does make me sick.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost choked
when he talked about McCain increasing free trade, someone needs to tell him about Carly Fiorina and her plans for increasing H1-B visas.
I actually like McCain but I seriously think having Carly on staff will be a disaster in the IT field
by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Palin's speech so late?
11 pm eastern?
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and we talk about Lieberman losing Rep votes....
well, Guliani is running right up there along with him in losing votes if not farther ahead.
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the point of them
questioning palin’s work and motherhood is that many evangelicals that support republicants say women should stay at home and raise kids. that working mothers lead to…well…teen pregenancy
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:27 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Psst. Rudy...
What’s this “we” stuff? Republicans don’t like you, remember?
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
so when mccain loses to obama
i’m guessing if palin runs for president in 2012, romney won’t attack her experience.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:29 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
you owe me a dollar
if she throws up or cries
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you a dollar
If her severed arm falls on me while I’m trying to restore power to the complex.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a time
For every purpose under Heaven.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
The husband...
Looks a little like T-1000, no?
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:39 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is just a first impression
I don’t like her intonation at all
by cashman on Sep 3, 2008 9:40 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
She sounds like an elementary school teacher
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's it!
I was trying to identify it.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
She's not a bad speaker
But it’s…so…dull
by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah..
I’ve never wanted to bend a pit bull over.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:42 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Who the hell is being escorted out?
"Mr. Hicks, you watch, I'm going to be a leader on this team." Kinsler
by sprite on Sep 3, 2008 9:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Ya I just saw that too
I wonder what they were doing…
"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno
LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288
by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guh.
She flubbed the best line of the night. It’s OK. I think they’ve hired Steve Martin to take care of her timing.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
My mother's City Manager for a local city
about twice the size as as wherever she’s from. I know what small town mayors do, and it’s not much.
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Yep
My dad was a city councilman in my home town of about 1200 people. They really don’t do much.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
For those who don't know
…A city manger here in Texas administrates the city, much like the Mayor’s Office in Wassilla (I looked at their municipal code — strong mayor form of government).
So she probably had more to do than my mom’s mayor. Probably less than my mom has to do and she’d admit that’s not much, either, haha.
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea know something?
She is currently the Governor of Alaska. That entails a bit more responsibility than a mayor, city manager, councilman, community organizer or Senator.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well Again
Alaska’s a pretty unique state. She came out of nowhere to get elected, so she must be a good campaigner. But as far as running the state goes, it’s a huge oil producer. They have no trouble with revenue and can keep taxes low. There’s no big cities and therefore no significant crime. The population is small so there’s no need for a state university system. Many of the challenges that other states face, Alaska simply doesn’t have.
I’m not terribly impressed by it. Sorry. She’s not corrupt? That’s great. Not only that but it appears she actually went after corruption. That’s also great. Beyond that I just don’t see much there. I think McCain could’ve made a better choice.
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI
I neglected to say “big or vast” state university system. Obviously they would have one. Every state does.
by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, by your logic, she is more qualified than her running mate also
Is that your contention?
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish Greggo was there
To ask her if she likes her gig.
by jamcadbury on Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Do you like your job?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 9:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unimpressive thus far.
I’m not surprised. She’s in over her head.
by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 9:47 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Its this campaigns
Dan Quayle
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.
"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer
by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone else think she sounds like Marty McFly’s mom from the scary version of 1985 in Back to the Future Part II?
exploding highfive
by sarnold on Sep 3, 2008 9:47 PM CDT reply actions 5 recs
i couldn't place it...
but YES!
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ding ding ding
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Put govt. back to work for the people?
If she implements that as VP I’d be thrilled…especially after what the current VP did
by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 9:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Heh. She and McCain are going to lay more pipelines.
That sounded naughty.
by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 9:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
the huckster
was the best of the 4 tonight. by far
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
So I'm honestly on the fence about who to vote for and have been that way for some time
Tell me in one sentence who I should vote for and why. You have a chance to influence me.
by jamcadbury on Sep 3, 2008 9:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I heard some where
she won a wet T-shirt contest in college. I can see why now.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palin in College

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/08/31/amd_palin-tshirt.jpg
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.
"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer
by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, she's aged well
Looks way better now…
Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.
by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The '80s
were such a time for bad hair.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.
"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer
by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Legacy
Unfortunately we still have the same cut taxes, borrow to the hilt and spend like a drunken sailor government as we did in the 80s. I’d rather have kept the hair.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obama because as
Norm would say: “He’s black.”
"Mr. Hicks, you watch, I'm going to be a leader on this team." Kinsler
by sprite on Sep 3, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
pat buchanan
if he were running.
but since he’s not. go with bob barr or obama.
no unnecessary wars
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should vote McCain/Palin
because McCain has the character, experience, and the proven ability to lead both in times of peace and crises and is willing to do what is right for the nation even if it bucks his party line while Obama keeps slighting Palin’s experience when his own experience is comaparable but he is running for President while she is the VP nominee.
by bstair on Sep 3, 2008 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Senate experience DNE Executive experience
Leading during peace and crisis? I’m confused. What exactly does he lead again besides a Senate committee?
by hiafex on Sep 3, 2008 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hia
McCain led in his military career, he led as a pow, he has led as a senator and worked across the aisle on multiple occassions to pass major legislation throughout his senate career. Very few rational people would question McCain’s proven leadership whether in the military or the government.
And if you’re going to question McCain’s leadership credentials because lack of “executive” experience then who else on either ticket has any “executive” experience… one … Sarah Palin.
by bstair on Sep 4, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgive me
I don’t see how leading in the military would help a President, that’s what generals are for. He’s a politician now. I still don’t see how Senatorial experience would help a president.
I agree that only Palin has actual executive experience. Maybe you think she should be ahead of McCain on your party’s ticket?
by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
I see McCain’s character, experience, and proven leadership as essential during this time in our country. You and I would disagree on the nature and importance of leadership and its application. I think military leadership coupled with the experience and leadership in the Senate that McCain has demonstrated over his career has prepared him best from the remaining canidates. And don’t forget that part of the President’s job is as Commander and Chief of our Armed Forces so military experience should help with that very important role.
And no I do not think Palin should be the candidate for President. While she has executive experience she could use more seasoning. I am impressed by the record she has, but she simply needs more experience. And the scary thing is… I think she has more experience than Obama. The fact that it’s even a debateable point tells you how inexperienced Obama is for the Presidency. And given the choice of inexperience being in the office of President or one heartbeat away from the Presidency… give me the one heartbeat in hopes that experience can be gained before that one heartbeat.
And I admire Obama. He is a very inspiring orator and he has energized politics. i disagree with many of his policies but I do admire his ability to inspire people.
And I assume that you do not support Obama either since his experience in the Senate wouldn’t help a President… even though a President has to work with both houses to accomplish anything for our country
by bstair on Sep 4, 2008 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Experience means nothing to me
Because nothing can prepare anyone to be the President of a country. The roles and decisions that are to be made cannot be prepared for. I’m voting for who I believe can appoint a strong cabinet, who has shown good judgement and who shares my ideals. I’ve questioned McCain’s judgement since appointing Palin as VP and I’m really worried about his stance on Iraq so I’m voting for Obama. Biden was a good/safe choice for VP and I haven’t seen anything that would lead me to think negatively of his judgement.
by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
The very thing you threw a gripe at actually means nothing to you. Why object to an issue that means nothing to you personally. And Obama’s record of judgment isn’t actually stellar.. unless of course voting present is good judgement.
by bstair on Sep 4, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm saying that they're on a level playing field
Neither of them were governors so neither has executive experience. I would care if they actually had that type of experience, but they don’t. Voting present doesn’t decrease from his judgment in my eyes.
by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you
want to know why he voted “present” so many times?
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Sep 4, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he was present...?
I’d like to see what he voted present on and what his constituency’s views are on those subjects.
by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me
that shows someone more interested in being careful about his political future than someone willing to stand up for something he believes in.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd still like to see those issues that he voted present on
He was elected to a Senatorial position to represent his constituency. Well that’s what a representative does… I can’t exactly remember what a Senator is expected to do.
by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I doubt that if you polled his constituency for their opinions on each of those votes they would answer present.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forget what they're called
But don’t most bills have little side notes or some other type of legislation attached that has nothing to do with the original bill? I would understand if he voted present on those types of bills where there were actually two different bills in one. Sorry for not knowing the technical terms, haven’t taken government in a while.
by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Riders? amendments?
I don’t think they were just for those, or only for those. I’m too lazy to look it up. Someone who hates liberals can do it for me.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
First Google Result on...
…the terms “Obama present”: LINK
Another link, this one from NPR.
As usual, it’s not as simple as it seems. Just a convenient attack.
by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
It doesn’t seem so bad when you compare the 129 “present” votes to the over 4000 total votes that were cast. Republicans don’t see it that way and neither did HRC, it was/is all a political tactic because they can’t really come up with anything else to say about him… I’m guessing.
by hiafex on Sep 5, 2008 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The "present" vote in itself
…is a political tactic in most cases. If he really didn’t want to vote he probably just would have left the chamber or wouldn’t have shown up in the first place.
by Black Francis on Sep 5, 2008 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly I don't think she's doing so bad
Not fantastic by any means, but her speech is a lot better than I expected.
Her accent though is getting annoying quick… and she really does sound like an elementary teacher.
by TRanger on Sep 3, 2008 9:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Bobby’s mom in Bobby’s World?
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
francis mcdormand from fargo?
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The reaction she's getting at her own convention is lukewarm.
When they show the crowd when the applause gets loud, a lot of them are sitting there mute. If she’s this unimpressive with her own party at its convention, I doubt she goes over much better with the electorate in general.
by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to ask
why does she keep mentioning “They’ll increase the govt?” when Bush was horrible about committing the exact same thing!
by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 9:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Republicans
Agree with this, they love to claim they’re for small government, but look at what they do when they get the opportunity.
With that said, McCain’s record in the Senate is one of the best at being fiscally conservative, so when he says he’s for small government there’s a chance he might actually be saying the truth. Of course this is politicians we’re talking about…
by TRanger on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
name the last...
…republican president who DIDN’T say he was going to spend less, and after he was elected spent more?…
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Obama's
…economic plan calls for cutting taxes on small business?
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:59 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That would be great for me.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
obviously not...
…she said. and they cheered. so it can’t be.
i hate interprative lying.
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that a joke?
"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005
by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if you consider reading a joke, maybe....
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#small-business
Provide Tax Relief for Small Businesses and Start Up Companies: Barack Obama will eliminate all capital gains taxes on start-up and small businesses to encourage innovation and job creation. Obama will also support small business owners by providing a $500 "Making Work Pay" tax credit to almost every worker in America. Self-employed small business owners pay both the employee and the employer side of the payroll tax, and this measure will reduce the burdens of this double taxation.
by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 5:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That gives me
a $500 incentive to vote for him.
I don’t know how he thinks he’s going to pay for all his ideas. The “closing corporate tax loopholes” line from his speech (I’m paraphrasing) was laughable.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
I was just responding to “Is that a joke” line.
In all reality, it will likely do just as you say, provide a $500 incentive to vote for him (since capital gains aren’t usually a large tax to worry about for start-ups and small businesses).
As a side note, it’s too bad those words in your sig are actually prophetic from a singer’s point of view.
R
by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
you were replying to the joke line, and thanks for looking that up and posting it. A good fact check for the speech, and when I heard her make those remarks I knew they were a bit offbase.
Do you mean that the Beethoven is hard to sing? No doubt.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’m actually saying that I wish the next sounds were more sonorous from a singer’s point of view.
Beethoven had no clue of how to use a singer’s voice. He basically treated it like another instrument.
R
by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True dat,
Oddly enough, I find the bass solo part to be easier than the bass part in the choir. Odd how he could be so freaking awesome at every other things but screw up choral writing.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not only choral parts
He basically had no clue how to handle the voice period. I’ve tried singing some of his songs and some of his smaller choral works, and he really doesn’t understand how words relate to music….
OTOH, he was a master with instruments.
His symphonies are amazing (even the 9th, though I hate hearing the vocal parts after performing it), and his sonatas are equally amazing.
Since I started my musical life as a piano player, he still is one of my favorite composers, but he really had no clue when words and voices get added to the mix.
Even the bass solo in the 9th really seems like he’s forcing the voice to go through an instrumental passage instead of really writing something that the voice wants to sing.
R
by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
spot on
It’s telling that the ‘recitative’ of the cellos and basses is more effective than the vocal solo. Still one of the pieces that raises the hair on the back of my neck.
To me, the oddest thing Beethoven wrote, though, is the Arietta movement of his final piano sonata. It sounds like he invented jazz in some sections. Eerie.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you only knew how many tax loopholes there are
…for corporations, maybe you wouldn’t be laughing. There’s two or three websites out there that describe some of them…I encourage you to go look for them.
by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm laughing
because I think there is no way in hell those loopholes all get closed by votes in congress. I think it’s more likely the spending ideas he has get passed than the ways to pay for them.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They'll close some of them...
…the more egregious ones to energy companies will be the first to go.
by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually slightly hopeful
that the current mood and yearning for “change” might produce some action if Obama had a Dem majority behind him. Even McCain seemed willing to work with an oppo congress in last night’s speech.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a tax CPA
I would agree although there are also a lot of inadequacies in tax law where corporations get screwed (double taxation).
They’ll never close the loopholes because then the companies will move overseas for sure.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Sep 4, 2008 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My dad...
…who is a Republican but not a free-trader, has an interesting idea about that. He says if companies move offshore to avoid the higher cost of doing business here, we should “slap them with a huge fucking tarriff when they send their shit back here”. That obviously wouldn’t work for all businesses, and most that it would work on have probably already moved.
by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What irritates me...
is double taxation on dividends. That’s fucking bullshit.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Palin
…is coming off as an angry bitch. These are lame cheapshots.
by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
that was hillary's problem
it’s tough to be a woman and criticize opponents w/o being called a bitch.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem here is that she has no credibility on the subject.
Who in the hell is she? What has she done? It’s like listening to a person on the street waxing eloquent on the failings of others—the kind of person you typically ignore while walking away shaking your head in bewilderment.
by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
but but but
she fired the house chef and sold a jet. on ebay.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
more than your boy obama, that's for sure.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it either elicits that reaction or the
reaction that she’s just like an average person with an opinion. Some people will see that and welcome it as a needed change. Others will say she’s in over her head.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Sep 3, 2008 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
cuz having a president who's an average person
has worked so well for the last 2 cycles.
by bushe on Sep 5, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
I don’t remember the democrats digging this low last week. Where is the substance that the right claims obama lacks? I think this might help with the base, but with ind. I don’t think this will play well. An ugly speech.
by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the media criticized the dems
for not attacking mccain. but can you really attack mccain. that somethingawful page is right. before you say anything negative about mccain you have to preface it with a compliment. he’s a war hero for pete’s sake.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh.
“Current do-nothing Senate” — she really said that. That’s amusing.
by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I worked with someone
who was big-time Right-wing and that was his argument ever since the Dems won in 06, “Nothing is getting accomplished!” but then I had to remind him that after witnessing so many former cabinet members force to resign or have their ethics in doubt I’d rather have the do-nothing than the full steam ahead the wrong way.
by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
vote for mccain
or you will die!!!
you kids will die in iran, but at least you’ll live.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't know
it seems like she’s having a fairly difficult time reading the teleprompter to me. Not knowing when sentences end and begin, or when she’s supposed to put emotion into it
exploding highfive
by sarnold on Sep 3, 2008 10:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
And now I have to listen to Britt Hume kiss her ass ....
Why am I watching Fox News?
by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
More punchable face:
Hume or Olbermann?
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 10:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can't be serious
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
They both have faces like a raging zit: you just want to pop them.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because life has been too good to you
and you have this urge to balance it out.
by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just so you can say that comment on a blog
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
time to see
olberman tear her down!
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
dolt
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
just to make it clear
oblermann, not you.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's good tv
o’reily factor is great tv. may not agree with him, but it’s a good show.
hannity and colmes is awful.
matthews used to be great. now it’s just good.
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't see how you think O'Reilly is great
he could be talking about sports and I would want to punch him in the face. He just has this smug, condescending voice that makes me want to key his car.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
by willamos2 on Sep 3, 2008 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Concur
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
H&C
The problem with Hannity & Colmes is that they force the viewer to choose sides. Each is fervently partisan and must preface every question with their agenda.
Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.
by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys missed the best part...
where her youngest daughter licked her hand to slick down the baby’s hair. We fell off the couch at that point!
I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler
by ortonius on Sep 3, 2008 10:14 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
did see the hand lick
but i saw her patting the head
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
gretchen wilson!!!??
oh man. i like her
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
VP debate
fuck the rules about debating a woman, rip her a new asshole.
by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
mainstream libs
you can really tell the core of that party with the last 20 or so posts here.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:17 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
mainstream americans
you mean
http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER
by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are not a mainstream American
Unless you have served your country. And either have created jobs or farm or otherwise produce. All I see posted is student, service economy number manipulator, legal professional, and otherwise nonproductive dollar or credential chasers promoting and pandering hype. For those who have served, kudos and make whatever choice. It’s earned.
I guess I’m not going to be at all acceptable in any political discussion. Different demographic, different life experience, different value system, and different sense of what it takes for national well being. Thus, don’t waste bandwidth hammering me or my elderly, non sociocentric views.
Now I do like rational discussion, but a national election is not at all about rational discussion. Rationalizing is compromise, accepting that which is unacceptable so one’s hands don’t get smeared with blood or dirt. Me? I like the blood and dirt. I have always tried to stay civil, even accommodating, but those who have known me for any length of time probably know I prefer the blood and dirt.
As a nation, as an economy, as a people, we win or lose. That nebulous gray mist you who are liberally inclined seek has a secret. There is no solid ground beneath it. Wander into it, and learn that it cannot be navigated, and the fall is precipitious.
I haven’t liked the past three Republican administrations, and called myself independent. I can’t buy the Libertarian view because I favor strong laws, strong enforcement, strong miitary, and strong national initiatives. I can’t surrender my sense of individual responsiblity and individual gain or loss under the approach to governance the current Democratic leadership espouses (although I did very well indeed within the tenure of the Clinton administration, which well run or not, was staffed by competent and effective people in the nation’s Departments.)
So have a good time phrasing support or antagonism for either set of candidates. My adieu to anything but baseball in this surround. Handshakes and grins to all, though.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
I created a job for myself
Does that count?
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Especially if it eventually creates or increases outflow work for others.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I feel priviliged that you've deemed me a Mainstream American
I help other businesses be more profitable whether it’s Park Cities Ford or some immigrant working himself to death in his Pleasant Grove body shop. I don’t create work for others, though, so maybe I’m not qualified.
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then
I suppose I qualify under your definition as a teacher, since I build minds and character and stuff.
Although I agree with the lion’s share of your post, I’m somehow offended that you appear to be deciding what a real American is. Served your country, what does that mean? Joined the military? Volunteered for charity? Coached Little League? Donated supplies/care boxes for soldiers in Iraq? All of the above?
I agree with your view of the last 3 GOP administrations. Give me Goldwater. Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Does that include the Patriot Act? I think not. If Goldwater was still around I think he might have left the GOP by now and started a 3rd party. I’ve read that the massive defeat the GOP suffered in ‘64 helped clear out the old guard of the party and reinvigorated it. Maybe it’s time for that to happen again.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 1:58 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
your mainstream america
includes mostly illegal immigrants. corporate america has outsourced your production jobs. we as a country consume, not produce. like it or not, for better or worse, your idea of mainstream america is nothing but a nostalgic reflection of times past.
by SteveP on Sep 4, 2008 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's still alive and well
here in rural Oklahoma.
It gets poked and prodded by those from large metropolitan areas, but it’s alive. The vast majority of the people in my community are producing something. (Oil, cattle, wheat, transportation) I suspect most people living in towns under 50,000 in America are of the same mentality as Ed Coffin.
by bigskinny on Sep 4, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's overstated
There are still a lot of things produced here, just no longer the largest single sector of the economy.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
If I’m not mistaken the US is still the world’s second largest manufacturer and second largest exporter.
by Black Francis on Sep 5, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
…we’re third in population so that should be no surprise. The problem is we’ve slipped a lot and I think we should work to preserve our ability to produce stuff.
by Black Francis on Sep 5, 2008 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
We should be doing everything we can to improve our production at home, for economic, security and safety reasons. Like education, this is an issue in which people have a bit of a chicken little outlook — but that’s not to say there isn’t much work to be done to improve.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
go back and read the crap you posted
and enut…typical.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So I'm a typical liberal because I don't think Palin is impressive?
Or is it because I think W is a dishonest man and a horrible leader?
Or is it because I believe in balanced federal budgets and fiscal responsibility, individual rights to own and bear arms, that abortion is wrong, that the death penalty is an appropriate punishment? On what do you base your assumption?
by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
because of the crap you posted
ditto to your enut buddy.
"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno
by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
What "crap" is that?
Don’t be afraid to cite examples.
by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
longhorn doesn't bother with specifics...
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not surprised at all, really.
Longhorn is the type of Bush-apologist that worships all things W and believes that anyone who doesn’t worship that twit in the same way is a “typical liberal”. As I’ve said before, long on glib bullshit and short on substance.
by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Short on substance...
is putting it nicely. I’ve all but begged the guy to give me a paragraph on any issue and why he feels that way and he won’t do it. Just sticks to his typical neo-con one liners and that’s it.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Late to the party
You’re like the 5th person to point that out today. He’s acting like a coward, backing down when called out.
Old war wound. Acts up around morons.
by TheBZA on Sep 3, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not late at all...
I called him out on it in a couple of the other political threads. The guy is a mindless sheep. It’s nice to see that others can see it as well though.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't put words into Longhorn's mouth
We don’t know that he worships Bush. We don’t know anything about Longhorn except that he thinks liberals suck and that everyone here is a typical liberal.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
That his family is from A.P.
by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
longhorn
80% of your posts are “typical lib”. work on your routine buddy.
by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he takes that out of his repertoire
He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools.
by hiafex on Sep 3, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL.
I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA
by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought...
it was well done, really. I thought the pacing was good. I didn’t see the same problems that I guess the majority posting here did.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 10:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
You didn't
Hate that she stepped all over her best line?
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
you just
love oratory don’t ya?? You into that Communist stuff?
"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain
by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
very wise and incitful commentary.
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you doing a bit?
exploding highfive
by sarnold on Sep 3, 2008 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rhetoric
And accomplishment can be bedfellows, but they usually aren’t.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
perfectly said
you see, I was trying to say what you said… but I’m not mature enough to think of the words
"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain
by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
That really has nothing to do with her speech delivery, does it?
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
what does speech delivery matter then, sir?
"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain
by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brett I think it does
She presented an approach on the theme, if you can’t do it, don’t talk about it. Her critique of Obama’s excellent oratory but shallow credentials trahslated that message to me. As usual, I could be off base, but I think her delivery suggested she is at minimum practical about doing what can be done, and leaving high toned themes alone if infeasible.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
You’re talking about the substance. That’s fine, and I’m not disagreeing with any of your contentions.
I was just talking about how the words came out of her mouth. She threw out her sharpest dagger in the middle of an applause break.
by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
some of her lines were good, the rest were filled with sarcasm and anger. There was no substance at all. Longhorn could have given this speech was less partisan anger. It was nasty and just threw this campaign deeper into the gutter.
by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree.
What she displayed tonight was competence . They don’t need brilliant performances from Palin, they just need competence. She did everything she needed to do tonight. Considering the fact that it doesn’t look like she minds getting her hands dirty, she’ll be able to fill the role of McCain’s surrogate when certain things have to be said.
All in all, I think it was a fairly strong performance.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
i dunno about strong...
…but mccain definitely found his attack dog… the canidates can’t say anything directly derrogatory, so its become the role of the VPs and campaign directors… trouble for the DEMs is, its hard to hit back at a woman… trouble for the PUBs is its hard for a woman to attack without looking like a bitch…
i’m with ed on this though, when did american politics become about tearing down the opponent instead of focusing on your views and plans?
"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...
by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wha?
“i’m with ed on this though, when did american politics become about tearing down the opponent instead of focusing on your views and plans?”
Like, 200 hundred some odd years ago?
Anyway, I agree with you about the reasons she makes a good surrogate for McCain.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ed does seem to be forgetting
that politics have always been like this. My God, just read about Grover Cleveland’s illegitimate child, or recall the Burr-Hamilton duel, or the vicious tone of the Adams-Jackson contest in 1826. I’ve been shocked every time I read about historical campaigns. If anything it was worse then.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude....
You’re forgetting about the mother of all campaigns in 1800 when basically, Jefferson took HIS GOOD FRIEND DOWN, John Adams, blaming him for everything wrong with the country.
He even admitted to it later and apologized (though somewhat roundaboutly) to Adams for making him the target of personal attacks.
Sadly enough, this IS the common rule of politics.
R
by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 5:44 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are wrong.
This speech helped with the dstar, benmor, and longhorns of the world. She didn’t gain a single vote tonight for her ticket with people who are undecided and just saw an angry bitch try to insult her opponents for 30 minutes. I was upset last week that the dem’s didn’t attack McCain more, now I am proud that none of them sunk down as low as Palin did tonight.
by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and
didn’t work for the Liberal Elitists of the world ;)
OMG THAT SPEECH WAS GREAT!!!!
"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain
by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we'll see.
I’m not as dogmatic about McCain as you are about the Dems.
"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."
by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
we'll see...
I have only seen you support republicans, so I don’t know how less dogmatic you are than I.
by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem is
It’s setting the tone for the campaign. They’re going to go negative in a big way, and the Republicans are built on that.
by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

by 