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Palin Speech Gameday thread.

Posts on the last one are approaching 700 and with the VP speech I can see it doubling so I decided to make a new thread. While I don't engage in any talk in these threads I genuinely enjoy seeing people duke it out and have legitimate arguments. Also to the non political savvy like myself, once you sift through the name calling you learn some stuff...

Quotes via Dstar:

Here’s a quote from the pre-released excerpts: "I’m not a member of the permanent political establishment. And I’ve learned quickly, these past few days, that if you’re not a member in good standing of the Washington elite, then some in the media consider a candidate unqualified for that reason alone. But here’s a little news flash for all those reporters and commentators: I’m not going to Washington to seek their good opinion – I’m going to Washington to serve the people of this country. …"

ZING!

here’s a better one: "I had the privilege of living most of my life in a small town. I was just your average hockey mom, and signed up for the PTA because I wanted to make my kids’ public education better. When I ran for city council, I didn’t need focus groups and voter profiles because I knew those voters, and knew their families, too. Before I became governor of the great state of Alaska, I was mayor of my hometown. And since our opponents in this presidential election seem to look down on that experience, let me explain to them what the job involves. I guess a small-town mayor is sort of like a ‘community organizer,’ except that you have actual responsibilities. …"

ZING 2!!!

link: http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/03/excerpts-from-palin-speech-small-town-and-proud-of-it/

Stay Civil...

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If it's

Her contention that she did more as mayor than Obama did as an organizer, then I bet he’d love to have that debate.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 7:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm curious

if she was ever successful in banning books at the Wasilla library.

by SteveP on Sep 3, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

You have the whole internet at your disposal. Go!

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have to

Give a little to get a little.

Start up a blog, and be rewarded.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

question

Just what is a community organizer and what were his accomplishments?

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 8:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would like to know as well

"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich

by knockoutking on Sep 4, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure

but I think Palin lost the coveted “community organizer” vote with that joke.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

well played

"This report of my death was an exaggeration"--Mark Twain

by rangerdanger on Sep 5, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, more seriously

Given that the GOP had a theme of “service” for the convention I find it odd that they used a line like that, which essentially belittles service at the community level.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I mean that was just hilarious...

You know, when they shit on people trying to make a difference in communities. That was awesome. Real American heroes, those Republicans.

What’s next, will they drop a hot steamy Cleveland Steamer on Police officers? How about some non-profit organizations?

Oh, it’s going to be awesome when they literally drop a deuce on Mother Theresa’s grave. I heard Palin has dibs on the first squat.

by cmkelly29 on Sep 5, 2008 12:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah...

they should have shit on small town mayors.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 5, 2008 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure, they've attacked her on her lack of political experience...

but did they laugh at the profession in front of a national audience?

The fact that so many people say “Haha, oh man.. what does a community organizer even do? What a crock job!” is quite sad.

It’s pretty much like saying “He worked for a Boys and Girls club! Haha! How pathetic! He was keeping kids off of the streets! Trying to help children with drug-addict parents! What a crock!”

It hits below the belt for people who do this kind of work.

Rudy Giuliani stood up there and laughed about it. Sarah Palin made jokes about it. It’s not really that funny.

Would it have been funny if one of the Democrats made jokes about one of McCain’s old roles?

“Ha! That dumb mother fucker got himself into a Vietnamese POW camp! What a fuckin’ idiot! Maybe if he wasn’t such a maverick, he wouldn’t have been caught!”

No, it’s not funny.

by cmkelly29 on Sep 5, 2008 1:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is how the game is played...

They attacked her lack of experience, she turns around and attacks his lack of experience.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 5, 2008 3:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, they mocked the profession

saying there were no responsibilities involved.

by cmkelly29 on Sep 5, 2008 12:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They mocked her profession

saying the same thing.

Notice how no one brought up the fact that Obama was a “community organizer” until everyone started saying that being mayor of a tiny town in Alaska was a worthless job. They opened that line of attack – don’t be surprised when it gets deflected back at them.

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

No, that’s not true.

The criticism wasn’t that being a mayor was a worthless job, or that being mayor of a small town was worthless. It was just that that job didn’t qualify one to be VP or President.

The Obama criticism was an indictment on “community organizers” as a whole group. If they had only said that community organizers aren’t per se qualified to be President, then that would be a valid criticism.

Not what happened, though.

by brettgardner on Sep 5, 2008 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe

not from the Obama camp. They have mostly stuck to critiquing its preparedness. He’s been very smart and political in dealing with Palin. And to be fair, they never really touted Obama’s past as preparing him for anything either.

But from the other sources, there was definitely a condescension towards the job itself – both the mayorship (?) and being governor of Alaska. Obama has an issue with certain wings of his party, who vocalize things that muddle his message. He’s done an admirable job of keeping his campaign proper and fair in their critiques, but not so much with other democrats and liberals.

But whatever – no one could be surprised that she would come back with something like that. Its a fluffy job title – the type of things liberals love and conservatives hate. Red meat for the delegates, and offensive to liberals. But do you really think anyone who is out there to be wooed cares at all about that comment? I’m pretty sure anyone who considers themselves a “community organizer” is voting for Obama. And anyone who knows people who are “community organizers” are also probably voting for Obama.

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I think you’re painting with a rather broad stroke, but no, I don’t think any community organizers were offended to the point of changing their votes.

That doesn’t make it valid criticism, though.

I agree with your point about the so-called “red meat”, but these conventions have expanded to beyond the die-hards in attendance. There’s a national audience, too, and not all of them are decided. I just think that critiques which have no substantive impact on the election are more than a little immature. Certainly, I don’t make the claim that that happens only within the McCain circle or at the RNC. Democrats are just as guilty.

I suppose my biggest rub was that with the DNC, all the speakers were unified in their message. Now, whether you think that message is valid or a bunch of bullshit, it was still pretty on target all the way to Obama.

McCain’s speech calling for bipartisanship and mending of fences struck me as a bit hollow coming after 2 nights of the most extreme partisanship one could ever hope to see.

by brettgardner on Sep 5, 2008 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Palin would destroy Obama.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 9:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha.

Pure gold.

by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 9:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure she was a fine

mayor for the Meth capitol of Alaska. Begging Washington for more money. That helps the local economy so more folks can get their crank.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But P Diddy

said Alaska doesn’t have any crack-heads. This somehow make her unqualified for VP.

Ephesians 1:3-10

by kwellborn on Sep 4, 2008 8:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It will take a while

To sort out the chunks from the cesspool that will be thrown. Too bad politics has sunk to finding ways to discredit the opponent rather than validate one’s own intentions. I’m really depressed about the negative characteristics of the two party system.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 8:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

In fairness

Other countries with stronger third parties have just as much bickering.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

other countries also have violence

""If they'd have told me you can make the team but you've got to shine the shoes, I'd have been there shining shoes." -Bradley

by ab03 on Sep 3, 2008 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Local Governing

Leading a local government isn’t a real feather in your cap. While exceptions certainly apply, that is not a place for real intelligence (academic or common sense).

by e1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.

I mean, have the people who are lauding her mayoral or city council experience ever actually spent any time at those institutions? Good Christ, it should be a negative.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wrong perception

The label of “mayor” or “councilman” seems to have this down-home connotation that isn’t supported by the actual experience. Especially in the metroplex our elected officials are driven by the same treacherous motives that the supposed “Washington insiders” have.

This country lives so much by the sound byte that we don’t even understand the bytes that are delivered.

by e1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much all politcs is a negative

I’m very wary of anyone who chooses that as a career path. Either they are obsessed with political minutiae (they are a nerd), they are power hungry, or they aer far too codependent about their fellow citizens. Either way, I’m not sure I want them making decisions that affect my life. (no offense, BG, as I guess this is what you do for a living…)

I guess a few of them are exceptions – thrust into office by circumstances beyond their control.

by JBImaknee on Sep 3, 2008 9:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No offense taken.

I don’t do anything for a living. I’m a student.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Beware of Live Microphone

The roundtable didn’t didn’t realize their microphone was still on. Here is Chuck Todd, Mike Murphy and Peggy Noonan’s real thoughts on Palin. I included the link in which you can listen to it.

Peggy Noonan, Wall Street Journal columnist and former Reagan speech writer, and Mike Murphy, writer for Time, McCain Advisor (soon to be former?) and contributor to MSNBC were speaking with MSNBC political director Chuck Todd.Murphy says, "This is not going to work.

Noonan adds, “It’s over.”

Then, Chuck Todd asks, “is this the most qualified woman they could have picked?”

Noonan replies, “The most qualified? No. I think they went for this, excuse me, political bullshit about narratives. …Every time the Republicans do that, because that’s not where they live and it’s not what they’re good at, they blow it.”

Murphy adds, "You know what’s really the worst thing about it? The greatness of McCain is no cynicism.

Chuck finishes his sentence— "and this is so cynical, and, as you called it, gimmicky. "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq4sOM4tpno

by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:22 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ooh.

Juicy. I love it. Thanks for the find.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

I completely agree with Murphy’s point about McCain.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me too...

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Still, I stand by my original thought that I would be happy with either of these guys as president. Especially with the other choices that were available (both this year and in the previous couple elections…)

by GhettoBear04 on Sep 3, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

from here on out

what will be pulled more? race card or sexism card

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Racism

Racism by far. Anyone that disagree’s needs to look up what happened in Penn. in the Democratic Primary when people told pollsters that they wouldn’t vote for Barack because he’s black.

by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Sexism Card

Will be pulled by McCain everytime Palin struggles but racism is very powerful and actually exsist in this election as I stated above

by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And black people wont vote for mccain

because hes white?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Why did

black people distrust Ronald Reagan? Because he was white? That is correct!"

by AirJordan on Sep 3, 2008 8:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yet they trusted Bill Clinton

Hell I’m white and I never trusted Reagan not because he was white but because I really didn’t think he was qualified.

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you probably feel the

same about Obama too?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No I'm a Obama supporter

Thank you for asking.

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh I thought you said above that you

cared about experience. LOL

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but...but...

war hero!

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you comparing JFK's experience to Obama's?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is why we should stick to baseball

And stay away from this.

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand why experience is such a big deal

Being a Senator or a Representative for x amount of years doesn’t contribute or count as executive experience. McCain being in the senate longer than Obama shouldn’t really make that much of a difference in this election.

by hiafex on Sep 3, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

McCain at least had

decision making responsibilities when he was in the military, controlling his squad and making tactical decisions. Obama has never done anything like that.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 1:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't get what that has to do with anything

And that occurred like 30 years ago. Leave the tactical decisions up to the Generals and the Secretary of Defense. This isn’t a military dictatorship we’re talking about.

by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course it isn't a military dictatorship

it shows that McCain has been in charge of something and had to make decisions by himself where he was responsible for the results of those decisions. That’s what the presidency is all about.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm

And only those who are in the military make decisions and take responsibility for those decisions. The president doesn’t make decisions by himself, that’s why a cabinet is appointed.

by hiafex on Sep 5, 2008 1:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ultimately

he decides…

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 5, 2008 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And he's likely not to go against his advisors opinions

Can you name some things that McCain made a decision on during his military escapades?

by hiafex on Sep 5, 2008 1:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What?

" McCain at least had

decision making responsibilities when he was in the military, controlling his squad and making tactical decisions. Obama has never done anything like that."

You’re saying Obama has never led anything or made important decisions in his lifetime?

by cmkelly29 on Sep 5, 2008 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's correct

I’m saying that he hasn’t made any decisions that bear responsibilities that are equitable to McCain’s.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 5, 2008 1:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a Chapelle show reference...

Just trying to be funny, didn’t work.

by AirJordan on Sep 3, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry I never have watched that show

Although I hear its very good.

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buy them on DVD...

you won’t be disappointed

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

African Americans

They vote 90 percent Dem even with a white guy. So they usually vote Democratic anyways. Racism will be more powerful than sexism in this election. Several southern Dems will vote Republican in this election. Palin was a weak choice so they are going to pull the sexism card everytime she struggles

by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What Southern states gave their electoral votes to

Kerry in 2004? Oh wait, none. Your argument is pretty irrelevant.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just like Blacks vote for

white guys according to you, southern states give their electoral votes to Republicans…

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um....

I didn’t say that he’s going to win a southern state. I said several Southerrn Dems will not vote for Barack. 90 percent of African Americans vote for Dem anyway. So you need to read my comments again before you can argue. Racism is more powerful if you disagree than you are in the tank for McCain.

by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know you said that....

but see the election works off of an electoral system. It doesn’t matter if 49% or 0% of Southern Dems vote Democrat. As long as they’re in the minority, they still lose.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 8:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think obama has a shot at virginia

and i think he has a shot at new mexico and colorado. i believe that if all other states stay the same, that gets him the election. he should still campaign in florida, michigan, minnesota, new hampshire and ohio just in case though.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree

i think he spends a ton of time in Virginia, and that alone is why I was surprised he didn’t go with Kaine.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 3, 2008 8:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

the mistake of the media (an myself included) pointing at palin’s experience taking obama’s lack there of off the table is that it compares obama to the VP nominee and not to mcsame.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obama

If the election were held today he would win New Mexico and Iowa. He only needs to carry Colorado or Viriginia (If he carries all the Kerry states). Right now Obama has a 64% chance of winning in Colorado and 61% in Virginia.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would LOVE

for him to win missouri. if i’m not mistaken i think the winner of missouri and arkansas wins the presidency going back to 1968

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Missouri has voted for the winning president

every time except for 1956- voted Stevenson over Eisenhower- since 1904. now thats a good streak…..

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

those numbers are about to change drastically

in an hour. For better or worse.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

drastically?

a little dramatic.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't think so?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 9:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

not really

i guess if her speech is really really good, it may help mccain a little.
 
if it’s boring it won’t really help at all

if it’s bad it may hurt a little.

the only way it would change things a lot is if she said Heil Hitler in it.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I happen to agree with Agreen here

I think that in some weird way, McCain’s chances hinge on a good performance here. If she falters, then all those charges of being unready and a weak choice get solidified, dooming her to Ferraro and Quayle-dom. If she excels, then the criticisms suddenly seem silly and overdone (almost immunizing her from future criticism) Fair? No. But this is her first impression – it will stick.

And people will be watching tonight. Maybe not as many as watched Obama, but far more than will watch McCain tomorrow night.

by JBImaknee on Sep 3, 2008 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha, as I predicted

from Drudge

37,244,000 WATCHED PALIN SPEECH … [38,379,000 WATCHED OBAMA]… MORE…

by JBImaknee on Sep 4, 2008 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Racism play more of a role?

Please. This sounds like you are setting yourself up for an “If Obama loses, its because people are racist” argument. There are a lot of reasons that Obama may lose, race isn’t one of them.

Frankly, while it makes a lot of political sense for people to try to label their opponents’ campaigns as sexist or racist, there is almost no way that is real. The Hillary-Obama sexist/racist argument was a joke (nothing Bill Clinton said was racist, and Hillary was never treated badly for being a woman – she was treated badly for not being Obama).

There are a lot of fair critiques of McCain and Obama, none of them have to do with race. There are a lot of fair critiques of Palin and Biden, none of them have to do with gender.

by JBImaknee on Sep 3, 2008 9:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...

Yes, it does. Go look online when there are KKK websites that are warning Obama if he wins he will get assassinated. A couple of idiot’s tried to kill him last week. Race is more powerful than gender. On down ballot races the Dems have a 10-15 percent lead in this election and Obama’s lead is a lot less than that. We will never have the scientific evidence to prove it deals with race but if you are a realist than you would come to the conclusion that the color of skin is having an impact. If you think race is not going to play a role in this election than you are living in another world.

by Monkey Brain on Sep 3, 2008 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tried to kill him last week?

Where’d you get that from?

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

some nutbag got arrested

for plotting to kill him

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

at one point

kerry carried 88% of african americans in 04

and 89% of african americans said they would vote for obama

"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich

by knockoutking on Sep 4, 2008 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fwiw

theres still ppl who wont vote for palin because shes a woman, or mccain because he is white…

"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich

by knockoutking on Sep 4, 2008 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think we can all agree

that romney is a scheister and is not to be trusted.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 8:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

rudy is a scheister too

not quite as bad as romney though

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Meh...

they both are but Rudy is the bottom of the barrel in my book.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rudy

He’s smearing Obama pretty badly. That dude makes me sick.

by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah

he’s an ass

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he has some pretty bad sarcasm

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He had the audacity...

…to condemn Obama for joining the political machine in Chicago (which isn’t true).

by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you are right

Obama does make me sick.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I almost choked

when he talked about McCain increasing free trade, someone needs to tell him about Carly Fiorina and her plans for increasing H1-B visas.

I actually like McCain but I seriously think having Carly on staff will be a disaster in the IT field

by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 9:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and we talk about Lieberman losing Rep votes....

well, Guliani is running right up there along with him in losing votes if not farther ahead.

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:23 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the point of them

questioning palin’s work and motherhood is that many evangelicals that support republicants say women should stay at home and raise kids. that working mothers lead to…well…teen pregenancy

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Psst. Rudy...

What’s this “we” stuff? Republicans don’t like you, remember?

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

so when mccain loses to obama

i’m guessing if palin runs for president in 2012, romney won’t attack her experience.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:29 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

you owe me a dollar

if she throws up or cries

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll give you a dollar

If her severed arm falls on me while I’m trying to restore power to the complex.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And a time

For every purpose under Heaven.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:34 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The husband...

Looks a little like T-1000, no?

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

This is just a first impression

I don’t like her intonation at all

by cashman on Sep 3, 2008 9:40 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That's it!

I was trying to identify it.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh

There could be, and are, worse credentials.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

She's not a bad speaker

But it’s…so…dull

by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 9:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nah..

I’ve never wanted to bend a pit bull over.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:42 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Who the hell is being escorted out?

"Mr. Hicks, you watch, I'm going to be a leader on this team." Kinsler

by sprite on Sep 3, 2008 9:43 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Ya I just saw that too

I wonder what they were doing…

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Guh.

She flubbed the best line of the night. It’s OK. I think they’ve hired Steve Martin to take care of her timing.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

My mother's City Manager for a local city

about twice the size as as wherever she’s from. I know what small town mayors do, and it’s not much.

by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:44 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep

My dad was a city councilman in my home town of about 1200 people. They really don’t do much.

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 9:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

For those who don't know

…A city manger here in Texas administrates the city, much like the Mayor’s Office in Wassilla (I looked at their municipal code — strong mayor form of government).

So she probably had more to do than my mom’s mayor. Probably less than my mom has to do and she’d admit that’s not much, either, haha.

by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea know something?

She is currently the Governor of Alaska. That entails a bit more responsibility than a mayor, city manager, councilman, community organizer or Senator.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well Again

Alaska’s a pretty unique state. She came out of nowhere to get elected, so she must be a good campaigner. But as far as running the state goes, it’s a huge oil producer. They have no trouble with revenue and can keep taxes low. There’s no big cities and therefore no significant crime. The population is small so there’s no need for a state university system. Many of the challenges that other states face, Alaska simply doesn’t have.

I’m not terribly impressed by it. Sorry. She’s not corrupt? That’s great. Not only that but it appears she actually went after corruption. That’s also great. Beyond that I just don’t see much there. I think McCain could’ve made a better choice.

by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FYI

http://www.alaska.edu/

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 11:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FYI

I neglected to say “big or vast” state university system. Obviously they would have one. Every state does.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 12:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, by your logic, she is more qualified than her running mate also

Is that your contention?

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unimpressive thus far.

I’m not surprised. She’s in over her head.

by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 9:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Its this campaigns

Dan Quayle

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 7:07 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i couldn't place it...

but YES!

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ding ding ding

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Put govt. back to work for the people?

If she implements that as VP I’d be thrilled…especially after what the current VP did

by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 9:49 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

the huckster

was the best of the 4 tonight. by far

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

So I'm honestly on the fence about who to vote for and have been that way for some time

Tell me in one sentence who I should vote for and why. You have a chance to influence me.

by jamcadbury on Sep 3, 2008 9:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I heard some where

she won a wet T-shirt contest in college. I can see why now.

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Palin in College

http://assets.nydailynews.com/img/2008/08/31/amd_palin-tshirt.jpg

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damn, she's aged well

Looks way better now…

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The '80s

were such a time for bad hair.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 1:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Legacy

Unfortunately we still have the same cut taxes, borrow to the hilt and spend like a drunken sailor government as we did in the 80s. I’d rather have kept the hair.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 1:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obama because as

Norm would say: “He’s black.”

"Mr. Hicks, you watch, I'm going to be a leader on this team." Kinsler

by sprite on Sep 3, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Or

“he’s and interesting kid.”

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

pat buchanan

if he were running.

but since he’s not. go with bob barr or obama.

no unnecessary wars

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You should vote McCain/Palin

because McCain has the character, experience, and the proven ability to lead both in times of peace and crises and is willing to do what is right for the nation even if it bucks his party line while Obama keeps slighting Palin’s experience when his own experience is comaparable but he is running for President while she is the VP nominee.

by bstair on Sep 3, 2008 11:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Logic

has not place in politics. :)

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 11:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Senate experience DNE Executive experience

Leading during peace and crisis? I’m confused. What exactly does he lead again besides a Senate committee?

by hiafex on Sep 3, 2008 11:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hia

McCain led in his military career, he led as a pow, he has led as a senator and worked across the aisle on multiple occassions to pass major legislation throughout his senate career. Very few rational people would question McCain’s proven leadership whether in the military or the government.
And if you’re going to question McCain’s leadership credentials because lack of “executive” experience then who else on either ticket has any “executive” experience… one … Sarah Palin.

by bstair on Sep 4, 2008 12:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forgive me

I don’t see how leading in the military would help a President, that’s what generals are for. He’s a politician now. I still don’t see how Senatorial experience would help a president.
I agree that only Palin has actual executive experience. Maybe you think she should be ahead of McCain on your party’s ticket?

by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nope

I see McCain’s character, experience, and proven leadership as essential during this time in our country. You and I would disagree on the nature and importance of leadership and its application. I think military leadership coupled with the experience and leadership in the Senate that McCain has demonstrated over his career has prepared him best from the remaining canidates. And don’t forget that part of the President’s job is as Commander and Chief of our Armed Forces so military experience should help with that very important role.

And no I do not think Palin should be the candidate for President. While she has executive experience she could use more seasoning. I am impressed by the record she has, but she simply needs more experience. And the scary thing is… I think she has more experience than Obama. The fact that it’s even a debateable point tells you how inexperienced Obama is for the Presidency. And given the choice of inexperience being in the office of President or one heartbeat away from the Presidency… give me the one heartbeat in hopes that experience can be gained before that one heartbeat.

And I admire Obama. He is a very inspiring orator and he has energized politics. i disagree with many of his policies but I do admire his ability to inspire people.

And I assume that you do not support Obama either since his experience in the Senate wouldn’t help a President… even though a President has to work with both houses to accomplish anything for our country

by bstair on Sep 4, 2008 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Experience means nothing to me

Because nothing can prepare anyone to be the President of a country. The roles and decisions that are to be made cannot be prepared for. I’m voting for who I believe can appoint a strong cabinet, who has shown good judgement and who shares my ideals. I’ve questioned McCain’s judgement since appointing Palin as VP and I’m really worried about his stance on Iraq so I’m voting for Obama. Biden was a good/safe choice for VP and I haven’t seen anything that would lead me to think negatively of his judgement.

by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 8:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny

The very thing you threw a gripe at actually means nothing to you. Why object to an issue that means nothing to you personally. And Obama’s record of judgment isn’t actually stellar.. unless of course voting present is good judgement.

by bstair on Sep 4, 2008 9:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm saying that they're on a level playing field

Neither of them were governors so neither has executive experience. I would care if they actually had that type of experience, but they don’t. Voting present doesn’t decrease from his judgment in my eyes.

by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't you

want to know why he voted “present” so many times?

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 4, 2008 9:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because he was present...?

I’d like to see what he voted present on and what his constituency’s views are on those subjects.

by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To me

that shows someone more interested in being careful about his political future than someone willing to stand up for something he believes in.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd still like to see those issues that he voted present on

He was elected to a Senatorial position to represent his constituency. Well that’s what a representative does… I can’t exactly remember what a Senator is expected to do.

by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

I doubt that if you polled his constituency for their opinions on each of those votes they would answer present.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 10:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I forget what they're called

But don’t most bills have little side notes or some other type of legislation attached that has nothing to do with the original bill? I would understand if he voted present on those types of bills where there were actually two different bills in one. Sorry for not knowing the technical terms, haven’t taken government in a while.

by hiafex on Sep 4, 2008 1:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Riders? amendments?

I don’t think they were just for those, or only for those. I’m too lazy to look it up. Someone who hates liberals can do it for me.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

First Google Result on...

…the terms “Obama present”: LINK

Another link, this one from NPR.

As usual, it’s not as simple as it seems. Just a convenient attack.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

It doesn’t seem so bad when you compare the 129 “present” votes to the over 4000 total votes that were cast. Republicans don’t see it that way and neither did HRC, it was/is all a political tactic because they can’t really come up with anything else to say about him… I’m guessing.

by hiafex on Sep 5, 2008 1:09 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The "present" vote in itself

…is a political tactic in most cases. If he really didn’t want to vote he probably just would have left the chamber or wouldn’t have shown up in the first place.

by Black Francis on Sep 5, 2008 8:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you

for finding that. It removes that apparent non-issue from the negative column on Obama for me.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly I don't think she's doing so bad

Not fantastic by any means, but her speech is a lot better than I expected.

Her accent though is getting annoying quick… and she really does sound like an elementary teacher.

by TRanger on Sep 3, 2008 9:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

Bobby’s mom in Bobby’s World?

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 9:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

francis mcdormand from fargo?

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

YES!

That was where I heard her voice before!

by TRanger on Sep 3, 2008 10:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good one

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 1:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The reaction she's getting at her own convention is lukewarm.

When they show the crowd when the applause gets loud, a lot of them are sitting there mute. If she’s this unimpressive with her own party at its convention, I doubt she goes over much better with the electorate in general.

by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have to ask

why does she keep mentioning “They’ll increase the govt?” when Bush was horrible about committing the exact same thing!

by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 9:58 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Republicans

Agree with this, they love to claim they’re for small government, but look at what they do when they get the opportunity.

With that said, McCain’s record in the Senate is one of the best at being fiscally conservative, so when he says he’s for small government there’s a chance he might actually be saying the truth. Of course this is politicians we’re talking about…

by TRanger on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

name the last...

…republican president who DIDN’T say he was going to spend less, and after he was elected spent more?…

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe Obama's

…economic plan calls for cutting taxes on small business?

by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 9:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That would be great for me.

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

obviously not...

…she said. and they cheered. so it can’t be.

i hate interprative lying.

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

is that a joke?

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 11:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if you consider reading a joke, maybe....

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/#small-business

Provide Tax Relief for Small Businesses and Start Up Companies: Barack Obama will eliminate all capital gains taxes on start-up and small businesses to encourage innovation and job creation. Obama will also support small business owners by providing a $500 "Making Work Pay" tax credit to almost every worker in America. Self-employed small business owners pay both the employee and the employer side of the payroll tax, and this measure will reduce the burdens of this double taxation.

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 5:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That gives me

a $500 incentive to vote for him.

I don’t know how he thinks he’s going to pay for all his ideas. The “closing corporate tax loopholes” line from his speech (I’m paraphrasing) was laughable.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 7:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

?

I was just responding to “Is that a joke” line.

In all reality, it will likely do just as you say, provide a $500 incentive to vote for him (since capital gains aren’t usually a large tax to worry about for start-ups and small businesses).

As a side note, it’s too bad those words in your sig are actually prophetic from a singer’s point of view.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 7:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know

you were replying to the joke line, and thanks for looking that up and posting it. A good fact check for the speech, and when I heard her make those remarks I knew they were a bit offbase.

Do you mean that the Beethoven is hard to sing? No doubt.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 7:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

I’m actually saying that I wish the next sounds were more sonorous from a singer’s point of view.

Beethoven had no clue of how to use a singer’s voice. He basically treated it like another instrument.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True dat,

Oddly enough, I find the bass solo part to be easier than the bass part in the choir. Odd how he could be so freaking awesome at every other things but screw up choral writing.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 5:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not only choral parts

He basically had no clue how to handle the voice period. I’ve tried singing some of his songs and some of his smaller choral works, and he really doesn’t understand how words relate to music….

OTOH, he was a master with instruments.

His symphonies are amazing (even the 9th, though I hate hearing the vocal parts after performing it), and his sonatas are equally amazing.

Since I started my musical life as a piano player, he still is one of my favorite composers, but he really had no clue when words and voices get added to the mix.

Even the bass solo in the 9th really seems like he’s forcing the voice to go through an instrumental passage instead of really writing something that the voice wants to sing.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

spot on

It’s telling that the ‘recitative’ of the cellos and basses is more effective than the vocal solo. Still one of the pieces that raises the hair on the back of my neck.

To me, the oddest thing Beethoven wrote, though, is the Arietta movement of his final piano sonata. It sounds like he invented jazz in some sections. Eerie.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you only knew how many tax loopholes there are

…for corporations, maybe you wouldn’t be laughing. There’s two or three websites out there that describe some of them…I encourage you to go look for them.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 7:50 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm laughing

because I think there is no way in hell those loopholes all get closed by votes in congress. I think it’s more likely the spending ideas he has get passed than the ways to pay for them.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 7:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They'll close some of them...

…the more egregious ones to energy companies will be the first to go.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm actually slightly hopeful

that the current mood and yearning for “change” might produce some action if Obama had a Dem majority behind him. Even McCain seemed willing to work with an oppo congress in last night’s speech.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

as a tax CPA

I would agree although there are also a lot of inadequacies in tax law where corporations get screwed (double taxation).

They’ll never close the loopholes because then the companies will move overseas for sure.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 4, 2008 8:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My dad...

…who is a Republican but not a free-trader, has an interesting idea about that. He says if companies move offshore to avoid the higher cost of doing business here, we should “slap them with a huge fucking tarriff when they send their shit back here”. That obviously wouldn’t work for all businesses, and most that it would work on have probably already moved.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What irritates me...

is double taxation on dividends. That’s fucking bullshit.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Palin

…is coming off as an angry bitch. These are lame cheapshots.

by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

that was hillary's problem

it’s tough to be a woman and criticize opponents w/o being called a bitch.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem here is that she has no credibility on the subject.

Who in the hell is she? What has she done? It’s like listening to a person on the street waxing eloquent on the failings of others—the kind of person you typically ignore while walking away shaking your head in bewilderment.

by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

but but but

she fired the house chef and sold a jet. on ebay.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

more than your boy obama, that's for sure.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Concur

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it either elicits that reaction or the

reaction that she’s just like an average person with an opinion. Some people will see that and welcome it as a needed change. Others will say she’s in over her head.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 3, 2008 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

cuz having a president who's an average person

has worked so well for the last 2 cycles.

by bushe on Sep 5, 2008 1:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

I don’t remember the democrats digging this low last week. Where is the substance that the right claims obama lacks? I think this might help with the base, but with ind. I don’t think this will play well. An ugly speech.

by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the media criticized the dems

for not attacking mccain. but can you really attack mccain. that somethingawful page is right. before you say anything negative about mccain you have to preface it with a compliment. he’s a war hero for pete’s sake.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh.

“Current do-nothing Senate” — she really said that. That’s amusing.

by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I worked with someone

who was big-time Right-wing and that was his argument ever since the Dems won in 06, “Nothing is getting accomplished!” but then I had to remind him that after witnessing so many former cabinet members force to resign or have their ethics in doubt I’d rather have the do-nothing than the full steam ahead the wrong way.

by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

vote for mccain

or you will die!!!

you kids will die in iran, but at least you’ll live.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:04 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i don't know

it seems like she’s having a fairly difficult time reading the teleprompter to me. Not knowing when sentences end and begin, or when she’s supposed to put emotion into it

exploding highfive

by sarnold on Sep 3, 2008 10:07 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

coin flip

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you can't be serious

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

They both have faces like a raging zit: you just want to pop them.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hume.

Olbermann, at the very least, is open about his bias.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Sep 3, 2008 11:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because life has been too good to you

and you have this urge to balance it out.

by Taylor on Sep 3, 2008 10:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

just so you can say that comment on a blog

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And

your commentary is still worthless

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 3, 2008 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

time to see

olberman tear her down!

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

dolt

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

just to make it clear

oblermann, not you.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's good tv

o’reily factor is great tv. may not agree with him, but it’s a good show.

hannity and colmes is awful.

matthews used to be great. now it’s just good.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't see how you think O'Reilly is great

he could be talking about sports and I would want to punch him in the face. He just has this smug, condescending voice that makes me want to key his car.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 3, 2008 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Concur

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

H&C

The problem with Hannity & Colmes is that they force the viewer to choose sides. Each is fervently partisan and must preface every question with their agenda.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You guys missed the best part...

where her youngest daughter licked her hand to slick down the baby’s hair. We fell off the couch at that point!

I'd love for part of the "new look" to be a return to the red uniforms of the 1990s. - Ian Kinsler

by ortonius on Sep 3, 2008 10:14 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

did see the hand lick

but i saw her patting the head

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

gretchen wilson!!!??

oh man. i like her

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

VP debate

fuck the rules about debating a woman, rip her a new asshole.

by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:15 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yes

and engate in fistacuffs.

biden can take palin. and i think obama can beat up mccain

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:16 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

*engage

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

mainstream libs

you can really tell the core of that party with the last 20 or so posts here.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:17 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

mainstream americans

you mean

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 3, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are not a mainstream American

Unless you have served your country. And either have created jobs or farm or otherwise produce. All I see posted is student, service economy number manipulator, legal professional, and otherwise nonproductive dollar or credential chasers promoting and pandering hype. For those who have served, kudos and make whatever choice. It’s earned.

I guess I’m not going to be at all acceptable in any political discussion. Different demographic, different life experience, different value system, and different sense of what it takes for national well being. Thus, don’t waste bandwidth hammering me or my elderly, non sociocentric views.

Now I do like rational discussion, but a national election is not at all about rational discussion. Rationalizing is compromise, accepting that which is unacceptable so one’s hands don’t get smeared with blood or dirt. Me? I like the blood and dirt. I have always tried to stay civil, even accommodating, but those who have known me for any length of time probably know I prefer the blood and dirt.

As a nation, as an economy, as a people, we win or lose. That nebulous gray mist you who are liberally inclined seek has a secret. There is no solid ground beneath it. Wander into it, and learn that it cannot be navigated, and the fall is precipitious.

I haven’t liked the past three Republican administrations, and called myself independent. I can’t buy the Libertarian view because I favor strong laws, strong enforcement, strong miitary, and strong national initiatives. I can’t surrender my sense of individual responsiblity and individual gain or loss under the approach to governance the current Democratic leadership espouses (although I did very well indeed within the tenure of the Clinton administration, which well run or not, was staffed by competent and effective people in the nation’s Departments.)

So have a good time phrasing support or antagonism for either set of candidates. My adieu to anything but baseball in this surround. Handshakes and grins to all, though.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 10:46 PM CDT up reply actions   2 recs

Yep.

Especially if it eventually creates or increases outflow work for others.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I feel priviliged that you've deemed me a Mainstream American

I help other businesses be more profitable whether it’s Park Cities Ford or some immigrant working himself to death in his Pleasant Grove body shop. I don’t create work for others, though, so maybe I’m not qualified.

by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then

I suppose I qualify under your definition as a teacher, since I build minds and character and stuff.

Although I agree with the lion’s share of your post, I’m somehow offended that you appear to be deciding what a real American is. Served your country, what does that mean? Joined the military? Volunteered for charity? Coached Little League? Donated supplies/care boxes for soldiers in Iraq? All of the above?

I agree with your view of the last 3 GOP administrations. Give me Goldwater. Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. Does that include the Patriot Act? I think not. If Goldwater was still around I think he might have left the GOP by now and started a 3rd party. I’ve read that the massive defeat the GOP suffered in ‘64 helped clear out the old guard of the party and reinvigorated it. Maybe it’s time for that to happen again.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 1:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

your mainstream america

includes mostly illegal immigrants. corporate america has outsourced your production jobs. we as a country consume, not produce. like it or not, for better or worse, your idea of mainstream america is nothing but a nostalgic reflection of times past.

by SteveP on Sep 4, 2008 12:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's still alive and well

here in rural Oklahoma.
It gets poked and prodded by those from large metropolitan areas, but it’s alive. The vast majority of the people in my community are producing something. (Oil, cattle, wheat, transportation) I suspect most people living in towns under 50,000 in America are of the same mentality as Ed Coffin.

by bigskinny on Sep 4, 2008 5:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's overstated

There are still a lot of things produced here, just no longer the largest single sector of the economy.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

If I’m not mistaken the US is still the world’s second largest manufacturer and second largest exporter.

by Black Francis on Sep 5, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But...

…we’re third in population so that should be no surprise. The problem is we’ve slipped a lot and I think we should work to preserve our ability to produce stuff.

by Black Francis on Sep 5, 2008 8:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

We should be doing everything we can to improve our production at home, for economic, security and safety reasons. Like education, this is an issue in which people have a bit of a chicken little outlook — but that’s not to say there isn’t much work to be done to improve.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 9:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh?

Please enlighten us.

by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

go back and read the crap you posted

and enut…typical.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So I'm a typical liberal because I don't think Palin is impressive?

Or is it because I think W is a dishonest man and a horrible leader?

Or is it because I believe in balanced federal budgets and fiscal responsibility, individual rights to own and bear arms, that abortion is wrong, that the death penalty is an appropriate punishment? On what do you base your assumption?

by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

because of the crap you posted

ditto to your enut buddy.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 3, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What "crap" is that?

Don’t be afraid to cite examples.

by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

longhorn doesn't bother with specifics...

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not surprised at all, really.

Longhorn is the type of Bush-apologist that worships all things W and believes that anyone who doesn’t worship that twit in the same way is a “typical liberal”. As I’ve said before, long on glib bullshit and short on substance.

by Athos on Sep 3, 2008 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Short on substance...

is putting it nicely. I’ve all but begged the guy to give me a paragraph on any issue and why he feels that way and he won’t do it. Just sticks to his typical neo-con one liners and that’s it.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Late to the party

You’re like the 5th person to point that out today. He’s acting like a coward, backing down when called out.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 3, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not late at all...

I called him out on it in a couple of the other political threads. The guy is a mindless sheep. It’s nice to see that others can see it as well though.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 11:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't put words into Longhorn's mouth

We don’t know that he worships Bush. We don’t know anything about Longhorn except that he thinks liberals suck and that everyone here is a typical liberal.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know

That his family is from A.P.

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

longhorn

80% of your posts are “typical lib”. work on your routine buddy.

by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he takes that out of his repertoire

He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools.

by hiafex on Sep 3, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

LOL.

I blame it not on Ron Washington, but on society. Society is to blame. And Ron Washington. ~Ken Tremendous on Ron Washington sac bunting in the 11th vs LAA

by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

nah

I think he is 100% tool

by cashman on Sep 4, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought...

it was well done, really. I thought the pacing was good. I didn’t see the same problems that I guess the majority posting here did.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 10:28 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You didn't

Hate that she stepped all over her best line?

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

you just

love oratory don’t ya?? You into that Communist stuff?

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

very wise and incitful commentary.

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rhetoric

And accomplishment can be bedfellows, but they usually aren’t.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

perfectly said

you see, I was trying to say what you said… but I’m not mature enough to think of the words

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

That really has nothing to do with her speech delivery, does it?

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ok

what does speech delivery matter then, sir?

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 11:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brett I think it does

She presented an approach on the theme, if you can’t do it, don’t talk about it. Her critique of Obama’s excellent oratory but shallow credentials trahslated that message to me. As usual, I could be off base, but I think her delivery suggested she is at minimum practical about doing what can be done, and leaving high toned themes alone if infeasible.

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Sep 3, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But

You’re talking about the substance. That’s fine, and I’m not disagreeing with any of your contentions.

I was just talking about how the words came out of her mouth. She threw out her sharpest dagger in the middle of an applause break.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

some of her lines were good, the rest were filled with sarcasm and anger. There was no substance at all. Longhorn could have given this speech was less partisan anger. It was nasty and just threw this campaign deeper into the gutter.

by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree.

What she displayed tonight was competence . They don’t need brilliant performances from Palin, they just need competence. She did everything she needed to do tonight. Considering the fact that it doesn’t look like she minds getting her hands dirty, she’ll be able to fill the role of McCain’s surrogate when certain things have to be said.

All in all, I think it was a fairly strong performance.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

i dunno about strong...

…but mccain definitely found his attack dog… the canidates can’t say anything directly derrogatory, so its become the role of the VPs and campaign directors… trouble for the DEMs is, its hard to hit back at a woman… trouble for the PUBs is its hard for a woman to attack without looking like a bitch…

i’m with ed on this though, when did american politics become about tearing down the opponent instead of focusing on your views and plans?

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 3, 2008 10:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wha?

“i’m with ed on this though, when did american politics become about tearing down the opponent instead of focusing on your views and plans?”

Like, 200 hundred some odd years ago?

Anyway, I agree with you about the reasons she makes a good surrogate for McCain.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ed does seem to be forgetting

that politics have always been like this. My God, just read about Grover Cleveland’s illegitimate child, or recall the Burr-Hamilton duel, or the vicious tone of the Adams-Jackson contest in 1826. I’ve been shocked every time I read about historical campaigns. If anything it was worse then.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude....

You’re forgetting about the mother of all campaigns in 1800 when basically, Jefferson took HIS GOOD FRIEND DOWN, John Adams, blaming him for everything wrong with the country.

He even admitted to it later and apologized (though somewhat roundaboutly) to Adams for making him the target of personal attacks.

Sadly enough, this IS the common rule of politics.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 5:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are wrong.

This speech helped with the dstar, benmor, and longhorns of the world. She didn’t gain a single vote tonight for her ticket with people who are undecided and just saw an angry bitch try to insult her opponents for 30 minutes. I was upset last week that the dem’s didn’t attack McCain more, now I am proud that none of them sunk down as low as Palin did tonight.

by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 10:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and

didn’t work for the Liberal Elitists of the world ;)

OMG THAT SPEECH WAS GREAT!!!!

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess we'll see.

I’m not as dogmatic about McCain as you are about the Dems.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 11:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we'll see...

I have only seen you support republicans, so I don’t know how less dogmatic you are than I.

by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 11:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Problem is

It’s setting the tone for the campaign. They’re going to go negative in a big way, and the Republicans are built on that.

by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Go negative."

Obama surrogates haven’t gone negative yet?

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Go negative."

Ben, McCain and co. went negative even before Clinton pulled out.

The tone was set a long while back. Unfortunately, that seems to be the state of American politics.

You could argue that McCain’s big jump in the the voting was attributable to the negative advertising by McCain and the lack of response from the Democrats.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 5:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe i'm just making this up, but

i remember McCain pretty much keeping to himself while Clinton and Obama went after each other.

I also recall Obama being the one to recently go after McCain somewhat unprovoked with the “7 houses” ad. Maybe that’s just “what I saw first”, but that’s what I can recall.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 4, 2008 8:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, you're making that up

McCain’s campaign started going after Obama well before Clinton dropped out. They’ve been pushing the no experience-celebrity-talking head line for quite a while now. It’s pretty useless to look for either party as taking the high road, even temporarily. There have been a few nice moments, like McCain congratulating Obama during the Dem convention, and Obama instructing his campaign workers to stay away from Palin’s family. But you could argue that even those are politically motivated.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 9:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They’ve been pushing the no experience-celebrity-talking head line for quite a while now

…but istn this true?

"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich

by knockoutking on Sep 4, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

great comeback.

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 4, 2008 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Subjective

McCain doesn’t have any executive experience either. Lincoln had very little experience. It’s definitely something that Obama has to overcome and something the McCain campaign should keep saying.

But by the same token, the 7 houses thing is true as well. And I don’t get the whole celebrity thing. McCain is at least as well known as Obama. Reagan was much more of a celebrity than Obama will ever be, and the GOP didn’t seem to have a problem with that in 1980. I don’t see how they can hold one great communicator up for praise while damning the other as an empty suited celebrity. Is just sounds like speech envy. And I’m well aware that Reagan was a governor before that election, so don’t bother.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But doesn't the fact Reagen was a governor

give substance to his candidacy that Obama doesn’t have? And I think the whole celebrity thing is rooted in the whole two Memoirs but not a single major law reasoning. If Obama had more substance to his record then there wouldn’t be the celebrity moniker. But as is celebrity orator seems to be his biggest asset.

by bstair on Sep 4, 2008 1:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

uhh

Obama has written 1 memoir and 1 policy/campaign book. Palin can’t even get her insults right.

by enut21 on Sep 4, 2008 1:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes,

Reagan had much more of a record than McCain, Obama, Biden, or Palin does currently. So as a campaign strategy it’s smart to pursue, as I said. But I don’t see Obama (or any politician except maybe Ahnold) as a celebrity. It just sounds like whiney speech and popularity envy to me. It’s as pathetic in that way as Kerry’s “reporting for duty” shtick in ’04.

Obama meanwhile, should be running on his oratory and his life story. That’s what his strength is.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, the not a single major law line is bullshit

Come on.

You should do some digging around for yourself, b/c that’s a myth.

Here you go:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obamas_legislative_accomplishments/

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good work.

Problem is, the people you’re arguing with won’t even bother to click on the link.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and what's more

even if they do, they will simply belittle his ideas and accomplishments no matter what links are provided.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hehe

liberals and sarcasm… hehe

are liberals panicking right now?

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 10:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no.

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 4, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think a lot of people

didn’t just see problems, but they were looking for problems.

"that suzuki guy should go back to making cars" - My girlfriend after C.J.'s close in game 2

by tdi1985 on Sep 4, 2008 6:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

AWESOMMMEEEE!!!!!!!

the regular American LOVES them some PALIN!! Liberal and media ELITISTS love Obama…

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 10:39 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

elitist

Yeah, because there are no rich, elitist Republicans. It’s funny that Republicans think Dems are both elitist and the party of “welfare queens”. Affluent people lean heavily Republican, the GOP is the party of the elites.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon now,

McCain is just a good ol boy common man.

He’s like all of us common men who forget how many houses we have.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 5, 2008 8:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really thought...

she would do better than she did. I don’t think she was horrible by any means, but I expected her to go out there and killl and I’m not so sure even the republicans will come away feeling like she did. Very average imo.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 10:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

That girl is the real deal...

What else can you say but….

WHAT A FUCKING GREAT SPEECH?!?!?

No wonder the liberal pukes reacted the way they did after she was nominated.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 3, 2008 10:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Sharky is that you?

A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555

by boomer1 on Sep 3, 2008 11:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pukes and Punks

Josey’s only insults.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 11:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Still think the Palins should have re-thought

the whole Trig Van Palin thing?

That beautiful kid seems to be in good hands.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 3, 2008 11:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re-thought?

I never said she should “re-think” anything, except running for VP.

by brettgardner on Sep 3, 2008 11:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"dumbshits"

brettgardner’s only insult.

http://www.lonestarball.com/2008/8/29/603686/ot-mccain-palin#8456157

ZING!!!!!!

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, not sure if this is the right place to say it but...

Rudy G killed – the new power forward of the GOP.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 3, 2008 11:01 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You are joking, right?

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Sep 3, 2008 11:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not at all. Rudy gave the repubs teeth tonight

and made it okay to attack Obama’s record but he only gets a 92 because he called her “Senator Palin.”

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 3, 2008 11:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't like to openly attack politicians unless they really deserve it.

But Rudy Giuliani is a joke. He was mayor of New York City. What the hell does he know about offshore drilling, foreign affairs, or anything like that?

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Sep 3, 2008 11:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

he doesn't

know about Washington… THAT’S A GOOD THING!!!!!

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe.

Because there is a Republican dumbass in the Oval Office.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Sep 3, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?

wake me up when someone of substance comes on, Daniel “Rudy” Ruettiger would have been a better speaker

by bushe on Sep 5, 2008 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

And your thoughts?

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 3, 2008 11:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn't watch it

I was thinking about it… But after hearing the commentary on here about all of the bashing that was going on, I didn’t feel the urge to watch her continue the bash-fest.

by hiafex on Sep 3, 2008 11:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i thought it was pretty good

i didn’t think anything was “below the belt” per se. I might have missed one or two barbs, but they all seemed to be aimed at Obama’s experience and positions, rather than things that have absolutely no relevance (not saying Obama/Biden have gone that route).

Reading some of these comments without watching the speech would make me think that she used racial insults or referred to him as a bastard or something. It was a strong theme in the speech, but a dog backed into a corner is usually going to bite. McCain’s campaign is in a corner and they need to shake some shit up.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 3, 2008 11:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Nothing was below the belt.

There were no racist comments or undertones, but just the same ol’ negative “liberal” stereotyping sprinkled now and again with a little fear politics.

by Black Francis on Sep 3, 2008 11:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nothing below the belt

but the tone was pretty snarky, she might have overdone that a bit. Some good lines. She might be a better speaker than McCain, who always seems a bit constipated to me.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

true

mccain = constipated
palin = Frances McDormand in Fargo

both spot on

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 4, 2008 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe that's why

McCain is so insanely popular with tight asses.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 4, 2008 8:20 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

She did good

I thought she did what she had to do. She introduced herself, laid out some of her experience and showed that she if ready for a fight. A fight that will come not only from the Dems but the media also.

I think the next 10-14 days will make or beak this election for McCain. The Democrats and press will try to focus on Palin. McCain has to turn this campaign towards Obama.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 3, 2008 11:27 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

But they have.

Surely you don’t deny that?

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 11:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The fear is

that Palin will resonate with average Americans. She has more in common with 90% of America than Obama does. If she can connect with them, they will listen to her and it is game over for Obama.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 4, 2008 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

90%

agree with her on the issues too!!! they just don’t realize it yet… teehee

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 4, 2008 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure if anyone could have expected her to be that

composed and do that great of a job. The attacks by the media certainly helped her a lot as nobody thought she was capable of pulling off a speech like that. So far it appears to have been a great pick by McCain.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 3, 2008 11:32 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

re: "The attacks by the media certainly helped her a lot as nobody thought she was capable of pulling off a speech like that."

I did. I said so yesterday.

And overall, I thought she did pretty good. I still don’t see why some people keep insisting that this speech was the hard part, or even some major obstacle, though.

I also don’t get why people keep insisting that she was “attacked” by the media. Any unknown candidate would have had all their skeletons dug up. That’s part of he media’s job.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?

“I still don’t see why some people keep insisting that this speech was the hard part, or even some major obstacle.”

She had so much pressure and has never spoken in front of a crowd or television viewing audience like that before. If she performed poorly I don’t think too many people would have been surprised.

“I also don’t get why people keep insisting that she was "attacked" by the media. Any unknown candidate would have had all their skeletons dug up. That’s part of he media’s job.”

Nobody disagrees that her skeletons shouldn’t be dug up. But questioning whether she can be a VP because she’s also a mom is sexiest and not a legitimate criticism in my opinion. And Dailykos piece on her daughter was clearly disgusting.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Timing

McCain, Obama, and Biden have all been dragged through the press, but for them it’s happened a little at a time over years. No one even thought about Palin until Friday, so it’s all happening right now as the media tries to report who the hell she is. The situation lends itself to the usual Republican whining about unfair media coverage, but it’s not really unfair. If she wants to be VP, she has to expect and accept tough questions.

Don’t confuse DailyKos with mainstream media. Conservative blogs are calling Michelle Obama horse face and un-American. It cuts both ways.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never confused DailkyKos wiht mainstream media

but the mainstream media was unfair to her as I stated before. Also, “no one even thought about Palin until Friday”. That’s why there was such anticipation about her speech making it so incredible that she did so well.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think

it’s incredible that she did well, except maybe in how she handled that large a crowd. But obviously the GOP had its best speechwriters working their butts off for that. It may be more telling to see how she does off the cuff over the next few weeks since she’s never faced constant media scrutiny like the other 3 have.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Delivery

is very important…even a great speech is only as good as it is delivered. Come on you know that.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I do know that

I don’t think her delivery was incredible. Good, and definitely better than her running mate, but not great. She is a good contrast to McCain’s stiff, soldierly demeanor.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 5:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfair?

No way. In the lower 48, Palin is unknown to everyone but GOP insiders and activists. McCain sprung this thing at the last minute and so there’s no doubt all kinds of stuff got reported. Had he given a little more notice that would not have happened.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha so it's McCain's fault

that major media outlets questioned if she could be a VP because she’s a wife with young kids? You’re amazing.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perception

I’m repeating myself here, but because no one knew who she was a week ago, media talk about her has been incredibly concentrated into a week. The other 3 have had the press around them for years. Same scrutiny, vastly different time scales. She’s not being picked on, but it’s a conveniently indirect way of accusing the media of misogyny and bias.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you really surprised by the "media attacked" her line?

That’s standard GOP campaign material. They’re all attacked by the media because the media is liberal. How dare you suggest that simply reporting facts that aren’t positive is not evidence of a liberal bias!

Of course, the fact that nearly every pundit was kissing her ass after that speech seems to be escaping the “liberal media” crowd ….

by Athos on Sep 5, 2008 11:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Focus group reaction...

from The New Republic…
http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_stump/archive/2008/09/03/focus-group-palin-was-alarmingly-strong.aspx

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 11:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Several moderate-Democrat friends of mine have been emailing

quite the focus group.

A few of my moderate republican friends are saying the opposite of the speech.

by enut21 on Sep 3, 2008 11:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just the title...

the blogger put on the post.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 3, 2008 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Over/Under

on McCain/Obama’s lead in 4 days?

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 3, 2008 11:57 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Same place we were before both conventions.

I’d say it’s Obama up by between 1 and 5, depending on who you ask.

"One man, five scoops." -- shroomer

by ghtd36 on Sep 4, 2008 12:02 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll take the over

on McCain up by 1.

"You can't reason with your heart; it has its own laws, and thumps about things which the intellect scorns." - from A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court, by Mark Twain

by dstar442005 on Sep 4, 2008 12:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great discussion

Twice I’ve heard about how the liberals (i.e. Dems) and media (i.e. Dems’ lapdogs) have and will attack Palin. I’m still amazed how Fox and Limbaugh have created this concrete mindset with Republicans. It’s like Stepford wives.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Sep 4, 2008 12:12 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You don't...

think there’s a liberal bias (even a teeny, weeny liberal bias) in the media?

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 12:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As always, it depends on who you ask.

Tonight, everyone I listened to was bending over backwards to praise her.

by Athos on Sep 4, 2008 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was watching the NBC...

HD feed, and left right after the speech, but they were pretty heavy on the criticism.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 12:36 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

msnbc

were all gushing. olbermann called it a “great speech”. not sure i agree, but there you go. crowd was excited. she was very smug, so she’s got that going for her, which is nice.

by SteveP on Sep 4, 2008 1:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was driving home...

and didn’t get to hear Olbermann, but didn’t he say “People who like this sort of thing will find this… the sort of thing they like.”

That’s not gushing.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 2:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup

left wing nuts are blinded by their hate.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 4, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ben must feel so redeemed when a heavyweight like yourself validates him

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 7:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

and

with such thorough, reasoned debate points. Longhorn for Supreme Court Justice!

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hahaha

That’s funny. Could you imagine reading his opinions? It would just be just “No” or something.

by Black Francis on Sep 5, 2008 8:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But he would only cast an opinion

after reading whatever Scalia wrote.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 9:27 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Every media source has a bias...

just depends on which one you are looking at.

As far as attacks go, that all the republicans do. They don’t want to talk about the mess they have created for the country in the last 8 years or how they are going to fix it or get us out of the economic crisis, the crisis in Iraq, etc. Rather they just like to send people like Giuliani and Palin out to attack and smear the dems. It has worked in the past in elections. Not sure it will do the trick this time though.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 4, 2008 12:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Of course that is

your unbiased opinion. :)

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 4, 2008 12:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So...

are you saying that it doesn’t seem like the networks maybe, possibly, just might seem to show some “rooting interest” in Obama’s cause?

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 12:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think

it’s all in your head.

by SteveP on Sep 4, 2008 1:16 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

did you see the SNL sketches of

the Clinton/Obama debates?

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 4, 2008 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

are you

judging the political media based on snl sketches?

by bushe on Sep 5, 2008 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Limited

you’re just talking about tv, which I think is mostly around the left-middle with Fox to the right and MSNBC (and perhaps by association, NBC) to the left. I would put Jim Lehrer’s show pretty squarely in the neutral category.

But talk radio to me seems decidedly conservative, while blogging has a lot of everything, of course. Newspapers to me seem more liberal in general than tv when I read various op-eds. It seems ironic to me for Rush Limbaugh and his cult of personality driven radio network to be going on about Obama’s “celebrity status” and media bias.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do think there might be some bias

But I also think that the basic media (like AP) tries to paint things as neutral as possible. On the other hand, you have FOX that constantly preaches how they’re “fair and balanced” but are completely biased, so millions of people buy into their shit that they’re not biased.

What you have is a situation where true journalists who try to simply report all news, Dem and GOP, are painted as the “liberal media” everytime they happen to report on something negative on the GOP. So GOP supporters can’t rely on both sides of the story, they can only wait until Rush and FOX tell them the “real” story.

I honestly think it isn’t something the Dems can easily defeat. While journalists, despite often being Dems, they want to be legitimate and report the news the way it is and won’t take sides. Yet FOX has no such hesitations. So it’s a losing battle of journalistic integrity versus claiming integrity while having none.

That’s why I’ve found this interesting (and disheartening) for years. The GOP has created an anti-Dem anti-media for 15 years while the Democrats (and Democrat journalists) have walked the tightrope of journalistic integrity.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Sep 4, 2008 1:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The news networks...

are not the AP.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 1:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please explain

I never inferred that AP was part of ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CNBC, or CNN. I simply inferred that AP is a good example of nonbiased reporting yet the GOP constantly claims that the “media” cannot be trusted. Only the fair and unbiased reporting of FOX news is a reliable source of news.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Sep 4, 2008 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would think...

the average American probably gets more of their election coverage from the news networks than the AP.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 2:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So,

by that standard, it looks like the media is CONSERVATIVE.

From just the talk that I’ve heard it seems to me that:

FOX – Ultra-conservative
CBS – Slight McCain bias
NBC – Pretty Liberal (Or just really sick of Bush, probably both)
ABC – Haven’t heard enough to be able to decide one way or the other, but it seems to have advocates on both sides.

The media doesn’t seem as liberal as it supposedly was some years ago.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 5:57 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

ABC

seems slightly left if anything to me. I don’t have anything to back that up, just a vague feeling.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 7:19 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Might be

I haven’t really paid much attention to them, and I don’t watch live TV since watching the news basically depressed the hell out of me (and that was BEFORE these past 8 years).

So, I’ve gotten most of my coverage of the election from FOX, CBS, and NBC online.

I can’t really recall an ABC videocast online….

On a completely unrelated yet weird note, it’s interesting that FOX and NBC got together to launch Hulu, but then again they’re not putting up their POLITICAL episodes up (well, at least not yet).

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hulu

Money trumps all, heh.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Media bias defined

Look at the covers of US Weekly the past two weeks.

Obama presented with a very positive image with the tag line “Why Barak Loves her.”

Palin pictured with baby and the tag line “Babies, Lies and Scandal.”

FWIW Oberman did gush about Palin’s speach last night but has stated he is a Obama supporter. His bias showed after the gushing when he presented his ‘fact checking" segment shortly after his gushing. To my knowledge he did not have a “fact checking” segment after Obama’s or Biden’s speaches’.

by Bigfan16 on Sep 4, 2008 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dude

You’re using US Weekly as a definition of media bias? That’s some of the weakest crap I’ve ever heard. That’s like citing the Inquirer for picking up questionable stories.

Women read those sad grocery store rags to get their gossip fix. Palin is a fresh face, so any juicy story they can dig up will sell copies. I’m sure they’ve run a cover or two about Michelle in a negative light in the past year or so.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 4, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha

There is obviously a media bias towards bigfoot, because every tabloid puts him on the cover! bastards!

by enut21 on Sep 4, 2008 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Us Weekly...

it’s owned by a Dem supporter. Certainly not controversial to say it has a liberal bias. You can look at the cover they ran featuring Michelle Obama to see the difference.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 2:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

US Weekly

That is one magazine, and a pretty gossipy one at that. Are you really going to hold that up as media bias? Cherry picking can be done by either side. I caught a bit of Rush Limbaugh last week and he was claiming that Obama actively cultivates a celebrity image. I found that odd coming from someone who’s career is built on a cult of personality.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just an example of bias

The magazine is owned by a large Dem supporter as benmore78 pointed out above.

You are right about the ’gossipy" comment of the magazine but it does paint a very negeative first image of the VP candidate. Especially when compared to the Obama cover. Add the fact that the magazine is targeted towards women who are the biggest play in the upcoming election,

As for Rush… Again correct about the cult of personality comment. I always viewed his as a commentator/entertainer and not a news source. Keith Olbermann has two roles on MSNBC, News Anchor and Commentator. As a commentator I have no problem with his point of view and listen regularly. I would say the same about Bill O’Reilly who is only a commentator (not News Anchor at FOX). The problem I have is how the line appears to be crossed at Olbermann’s convenience. Personally I like all three as commentators but do not trust thier news reporting as objective.

From where I sit, Obama reminds me of the power and energy the I have not seen since JFK. I do not agree with his policies often but respect his amazing power. McCain is more than a little boring IMO, but has such a great personal story that I respect him just for that. Ditto on agreeing with his policies. Palin was solid last night and has a great story from what I have heard (so far.) Biden has no story that I find interesting in any way.

Well I ramble once again. My point is there is media bias and happens very subtly. The US magazine was anything but subtle. NBC (MSNBC with Olberman and Matthews) has been the worst recently of the big four networks taking that title away from CBS and the Dan Rather abomonation during the last election. ABC weekly news commentary show is hosted by George Stephanolis who ran a Clinton campaign so I always watch with that in mind. FOX news channel (the deathstar station to liberals) really presents the most balanced view IMO. While other are screaming I do discern the difference between News people and Commentators.

Peace to all.

by Bigfan16 on Sep 4, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Their goal is to sell copies and women are their demo.

It’s a gossip rag. Quit trying to pass it off as legitimate journalism.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 4, 2008 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're wasting time discussing it as a media bias

While they print filth like that all the time. It doesn’t matter what party they’re affiliated. I’m sure there has been a trash cover on Michelle Obama in the past year, this is just the hot topic.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 4, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very similar.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but probably worse

You’ll notice it at the checkout line. The crap you see Jessica Simpson and Britney on.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 4, 2008 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

okay

shall we bring talk radio into the mix?

by SteveP on Sep 4, 2008 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

talk radio...

news or commentarry/entertainment.

Someone previously posted how they disliked Hannity/Colmes. Personally I like an honest debate between people of divergent views. Can’t stand to listen to Hannity’s radio show where he runs on adnausium with noone checking him ala. Colmes.

by Bigfan16 on Sep 4, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do those

Viewpoints have to be polar opposites, though?

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Why do you think that Fox news channel is the most balanced?

I’ve viewed nothing on FOX news that supports that statement at all.

I’ve NEVER seen them say anything good about a Democrat, but of course, I don’t watch much TV these days (partly due to the polarization of the news stations).

Unfortunately, the popularity of FOX among the conservative front has led to other networks looking to spin thing in whichever ways they can instead of actually reporting the NEWS. So, more and more news is becoming unwatchable. I’m not even that big of a fan of Olbermann.

I just wish the “news” organizations had more people Tim Russert. He had his biases, but for the most part it seemed like he tried to ask the tough questions of BOTH parties to get in depth answers so you could really get a feel for how the politicians really thought.

Unfortunately, that seems like it’s becoming more and more of a pipe dream, and it’s happening on BOTH sides.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I spend a lot of time

with the TV on in the background. Even now I have Chris Matthews on with Rudy.

My opinion on FNC is based on my perception on how they differntiate news and commentary. Again in my humble opinion I feel that MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS and others appear to cross the line differentiating these two roles.

FWIW, I will be changing over to FNC for O’Reilly and Obama. I fell it should be most interesting.

Finally, you wish for Russert while I pine for the days of Cronkite.

peace.

by Bigfan16 on Sep 4, 2008 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

fox wrote the book

in blurring the lines between news and commentary.

by SteveP on Sep 4, 2008 4:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Read Scott McClellan's book

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Definitely

As much as I hate that smarmy bastard, I cannot recommend that book enough.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately

I don’t have much experience with Cronkite, so I don’t know enough to say.

That’s a good point about news vs. commentary.

Unfortunately, the problem at least from my view is that commentary HAS become news. And it’s on both sides. I’m not really sure who started what, but frankly, it’s gotten out of hand, IMO.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

huh?

“Biden has no story that I find interesting in any way.”

really? He is 10x more interesting than Palin.

by enut21 on Sep 4, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What is interesting about Biden?

36 years in the Senate?

Anything?…

by Bigfan16 on Sep 4, 2008 4:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's silly.

At the very least, he has an interesting exit story from his ’88 bid.

But his early family tragedy, his misguided take down of Bork, and his home style are all interesting news bits.

Also, why do you and other care so much about media bias? If you can detect it, why can’t somebody else do the same and draw their own conclusions?

The obvious solution is to go find out the information yourself, if you don’t feel you can trust anything.

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK

If that is what you find interesting then OK. We are all entitled to our opinions. Still not much there for my taste though.

As for media bias. First there is no Ranger baseball today. Second I really question whether people actually do what you promote. Read, educate and use their own discernment when forming their own opinion. All too often I see a herd mentality and people are just following the crowds.

To demonstrate this point I will use the Iraq war. At the time I was not buying into the fear mongering that led to the war. Bush at this time had a 90% plus approval rating. Now his approval rate is approaching single digits. While I did not want this war then I feel it would be a complete waste of the sacrifce made by oir troops to quit. The old saying is in for a penny then in for a pound. I just hope we see this through or we will have wasted the blood of our young men and women.

The general public, IMHO, is too lazy to read several articles on the same subject, educate themselves about the issues and then discern the various points of view. They all to often just read the headlines and skip the hard work.

by Bigfan16 on Sep 4, 2008 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then

That’s an indictment of the general public, not of the media.

Is it your assertion that the media has an obligation to spoon-feed information to people?

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

question

Was it a waste of the sacrifice of our troops to quit vietnam?

"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"

by enut21 on Sep 4, 2008 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely

Vietnam should have been left alone or we should have declared war and used all our resources to win. Either way would have been fine but what happened disgraced those who died there and is still a scar on our country/society.

by Bigfan16 on Sep 4, 2008 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Use all our resources??

If we had done that, The Soviets would’ve joined in, not to mention, the Chinese, who were already supplying troops, would have escalated their cause. Even though I agree with you on the part of disgracing those who died and the scar on society, I think that what happened worked out in the end, with the Soviets eventually meeting their “Vietnam” in Afghanistan, and ultimately breaking up the Soviet Bloc.

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Sep 4, 2008 5:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So, in 1972, you'd be down for doublin up?

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sweet, because you can force people

to your way of life if only you bring enough guns.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

American myopia

It’s incredible that most Americans assume that everyone else not only wants to be just like us, but really want our military to help them be that way ASAP. And it’s further incredible that anyone saying what I just said gets accused of not being a patriot.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 7:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Biden has no story?

Jeez, the guy has been through a terrible tragedy. His story is at least as compelling as Palin’s. Both pale in comparison to McCain’s experiences in Vietnam.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 5:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The guy was elected to the senate at age 30.

A frickin 30-year old senator.

I’d say that’s pretty noteworthy.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, you WERE making some decent points

Until "FOX news channel (the deathstar station to liberals) really presents the most balanced view IMO. "

2 questions for you Bigfan:

Who, exactly, is it, that provides the counterweight to Hume, Krauthammer, Gibson, Hannity, Novak, Cavuto, etc.? Where’s that balance you be referring to?

And can you remind me when Olbermann claimed he was unbiased?

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

FNC counterweight...

Colmes, that’s it. He’s the only liberal they allow on that station.

And as you allude to Olbermann never claimed to be unbaised, quite the contrary actually. I don’t see a problem with it either. My problem is with guys like Bill O who claim to be right down the middle with his “no spin” bullshit even though it’s clear he is conservative. There is nothing wrong with being a conservative, I just don’t understand why guys like O’Reilly won’t admit it and go from there. Stop bashing NBC while trying to pretend your not biased as well.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 5, 2008 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fox

always has a democrat on most discussions. always a dem advisor or something. juan williams is on there all the time and he is really pretty honest and even keel guy. they have many others if you actually watch. CNN has Pat Buchanan. thats about it.

i also wish O’Reilly would just admit he is a conservative. i also wish Brian Williams, Katie Couric, Wolf Blitzer, go on down the list with all tv newspeople and wish they too would stand up and say what they are and tell us who they vote for. then we would see where the slant is.

by mo on Sep 5, 2008 8:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buchanan...

is on MSNBC, but point taken. I will concede to you that I don’t watch much FNC. I try, but it usually only lasts about 10 min before I have to turn the channel. Much like a conservative watching MSNBC probably.

It would be nice to know what bias some of these reporters have going into a discusiion as well, but it will never happen. Especially the big networks prime time news anchors.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 5, 2008 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Off the top of my head, there's Buchanan

There’s also Joe Scarborough. And Tucker Carlson. And Mike Murphy. And Ed Rogers. And John Feehery. And Peggy Noonan. And Kate O’Beirne.

Tom Delay is on Chris Matthews all the time. It doesn’t get more neo-con than that.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 5, 2008 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I forgot about Joe and Tucker...

on MSNBC. Jos is on too early for me and I’m usually at work when Tucker is on. Still, those two with Pat give them 3 pretty conservative voices.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 6, 2008 12:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So fact checking is evidence of a bias?

That’s pretty funny. “How dare you expose where we’ve abandoned the facts! That’s biased!”

I’ll be chuckling awhile on that one.

by Athos on Sep 5, 2008 12:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Palin did a fantastic job

I actually shed a few tears when she talked about family, especially when she directly addressed the families of special-needs children.

There were two statements that really struck me as to the contrast between the two Presidential candidates:

"There is only one man in this election who has ever really fought for you!"

"For a season, a gifted speaker can inspire with his words, but for a lifetime John McCain has inspired with his deeds."

by 4Him on Sep 4, 2008 5:37 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Good stuff indeed.

The ones that stuck with me … and I’ll have to paraphrase

He’s written 2 memoirs but not a single major law
Some use change as a platform to alunch their careers. Others, like John McCain, have used their careers to launch change.

Also… Rudy’s “present” vote thing sticks with me as well. Kind of funny… kind of sad

by bstair on Sep 4, 2008 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

rhetoric is rhetoric, no matter what side

The first quote assumes that by being a war veteran, McCain is more qualified to be President than if he weren’t a war veteran. I don’t really see how that follows logically. And he didn’t fight for us; he fought for Cold War ideals that said we have to be the most powerful country in the world, and to do that we must destroy communism. That’s not fighting for us; that’s fighting to win an ideological argument.

The second quote uses catch-phrasey rhetoric to denounce Obama’s gifted speaking…while claiming that McCain trumps good speeches with his lifetime of vaguely inspirational deeds. What a wonderful way to say absolutely nothing.

I just watched Palin’s speech, and it made me ill the way she focused on nothing but three irrelevant ideas: 1) that she’s a hockey mom; 2) that McCain is a veteran with “deeds”; 3) that rhetoric (unless it’s Republican rhetoric) is bad. Or, to sum it all up: “Family good! Words bad!”

by naropean on Sep 4, 2008 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think that

the first quotation is more a reference to McCain’s long-term service as a US Senator. And why do you denounce McCain’s deeds? Is not a record of accomplishment more important than making speeches?

What has Obama actually accomplished? Can you articulate anything of substance that he’s done?

Obama has never served in the military, never run a private enterprise, never served on a board of a corporation, never held office as a mayor of any city or governor of any state. During his time as an Illinois state Senator he voted ‘Present’ more times than taking a definitive position on any issue, although incredibly he did manage to oppose the Born Alive Infant Protection Act (three times!). He is the most liberal US Senator, and chose the third-most liberal Senator to be his running mate.

You’ve got one of the most experienced candidates in history going against one of the least experienced candidates in history – I think that it’s clear who is the most qualified candidate.

by 4Him on Sep 4, 2008 6:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here you go, ignoramus

This is me, linking you to substance:

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/obamas_legislative_accomplishments/

Not sure why it is, but you really rub me the wrong way.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 8:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, but I don’t respond to people who address people with words like ‘ignoramus’.

by 4Him on Sep 5, 2008 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry

but you just did

by naropean on Sep 5, 2008 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you go to the link?

Or are you afraid to be proven wrong?

by hiafex on Sep 5, 2008 1:26 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Research friend; its right under your nose

4Him: During his time as an Illinois state Senator he voted ‘Present’ more times than taking a definitive position on any issue, although incredibly he did manage to oppose the Born Alive Infant Protection Act (three times!).

Obama acknowledges that over nearly eight years in the Illinois Senate, he voted “present” 129 times. That was out of roughly 4,000 votes he cast, so those “presents” amounted to about one of every 31 votes in his legislative career.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/24/fact_check_obamas_present_votes/

One should learn that he cannot take everything stated in a political speech as the gospel; regardless of which side it comes from.

by robert_d_wilfong on Sep 4, 2008 8:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s hyperbole, friend, and it doesn’t come from a political speech. The point is that there were way too many times when Obama refused to take a stand on issues.

by 4Him on Sep 5, 2008 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

1 for every 31 seems like a decent ratio

There’s a reason why that button was installed.

by hiafex on Sep 5, 2008 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Click the link

and you’ll see a pretty thorough explanation. Just … click … the … link.

by robert_d_wilfong on Sep 5, 2008 8:04 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said above

The “present” vote in the Illinois legislature is more often than not a tactic. In many cases it IS a stand. For example, Obama has used it to protest bills he thought were unconstitutional. That would be kind of like saying “I cannot vote for this bill in this form”.

If he didn’t want to take a stand, like I said above, he would’ve left the hall or wouldn’t have showed up for the vote in the first place.

Don’t be so gullible.

by Black Francis on Sep 5, 2008 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did not denounce McCain's "deeds"

I only called them vaguely represented by Palin. Not sure how your mind twisted that into denouncement, but if you can do it, the more power to you. You must have a future in politics.

McCain has his downside, and Obama has his downside. Frankly, I’m pissed off at both of them for their rhetorical ploys to capture the American vote at the lowest common denomenator. I’m pissed at McCain for harping on his POW experience, as if being tortured is a reason we should vote for him—and don’t say that he isn’t trying to use that in his favor. There’s a reason why he used that as his closer tonight. I personally find it disgusting that he would use his experience to appeal to American voters on an emotional “boo hoo” level. I don’t mean to be cold in saying that. Obviously it’s a horrible thing. But it isn’t a reason for him to be our President, and he should be ashamed for using it as one. And don’t you dare suggest he isn’t.

I’m pissed off at Sarah Palin for harping on the fact that she has a family, for appealing to Americans at that basic level of familiarity. It’s ridiculous.

And I’m pissed at Obama for doing the same shit, for talking about his family in his speech trying to strike that same chord as Palin. If he fought in a war, you better be sure he’d be spending a lot of time talking about it too. I’m just totally disgusted with American politics right now.

But I’m still voting for Obama, because I am a liberal. I believe in government spending and taxing the rich. But those things about me DO NOT MEAN that I accept Obama’s rhetoric. Nor does it mean I support his usage of it. I did not mean to preach like I have, but I’m fed up with all of this shit. And I guess I just needed to vent.

I’m sorry if any of this can be taken as an attack on you, 4Him. If you see it that way, please understand that I am upset with the system and with my fellow citizens. Just don’t try to tell me that rhetoric isn’t rhetoric when it clearly is.

by naropean on Sep 4, 2008 10:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry that I didn’t get back to you sooner – our power cut off as I was writing to you and it was out for half a day.

If you put the word ‘deeds’ in quotes, then you are indeed denouncing McCain’s deeds.

Being a POW is no small thing. McCain was a POW for longer than Obama has been a US Senator. Such an experience greatly shapes who a person is and what that person believes, and so it’s certainly natural that McCain would emphasize that phase of his life.

I can certainly understand why you would be disillusioned with politics, but not why you’d want to be a liberal. What do you mean when you say that you “believe in government spending”?

by 4Him on Sep 5, 2008 7:45 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I meant "deeds" = vagueness, because Palin used no adjective

We as voters should not vote for McCain the former POW. We should vote for him because of what he will do as President. We all know he was a POW. It’s well-publicized. The fact that he is harping on it so much means he is using his suffering as a rhetorical device, which I find disgusting. You cannot argue with the fact that it is a heavily emotional topic, and people are saying that it was the highlight of his speech for just that reason. Political speeches, when they appeal to the emotions, are using that emotion to sway the voters rather than their own political ideas, which SHOULD be the central theme of any political speech. But ideas only go so far as people can understand them. Unfortunately it is easier to appeal to people’s emotion than their intellect. People do not share the same level of intellect, but stories of being a POW appeal to basic human emotion. So by harping on that, McCain is gaining the vote of those who don’t understand the issues.

It’s basic rhetoric. All politicians do it. All we can do it recognize it and vote on the actual issues rather than be swayed by appeals to emotion. Appeals to emotion is how Hitler rose to power, by the way. It can be a dangerous thing when it becomes prevalent in our political culture, and so I am angry about it.

I believe in government spending to control the economy rather than the market, because the market favors the upper classes; the market leaves lower classes behind; the market allows for the class gap to widen. But when the size of the government increases, the government is able to spend in order to regulate the economy and not leave it up to the market. I have always been an advocate of socialism, because I agree that the government should do all it can to ensure as much equality among its people as it can. I’m not asking for a communist state by any means, by I do not trust the market to benefit everyone, because the sole purpose of the market is to make wealth among competition. In competition there are winners and losers. The class gap widens. Liberals believe in big government to limit the negative side effects of the market, and I have always been concerned with the class gap (since I was a little kid, actually), and so I am a liberal.

Why are you a conservative? And, further, why do you think it’s okay for McCain to make an emotional appeal to voters? Don’t you find it manipulative?

by naropean on Sep 5, 2008 10:52 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I don't get the whole "war veteran" thing.

It certainly wasn’t on the GOP’s mind when they backed W twice. There’s no question that Kerry was a war veteran while W used privilege to avoid war, yet the Swift Boat jackasses tried to use distortions to vilify a “war veteran” for W’s benefit.

Now none of us are supposed to question McCain’s ability to be our president because he was a “war veteran”. I love hypocrisy.

by Athos on Sep 5, 2008 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the first political thread I've skimmed on LSB

and my last…

I'm undefeated in fights. Have I been in any? No. Thats because people know my f'ing status. Don't mess with the elite. - Miles

by Dirk Diggler on Sep 4, 2008 7:59 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

buh-bye

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Personally,

I actually like these threads

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

LSB facebook group ---->>> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=33345329288

by hinduplaya on Sep 4, 2008 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

They appear to be

the most popular of all the LSB threads, based on post count.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 3:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i sure wish

someone would do a study on how many 18-30 people voted “liberally” while young, only to vote “conservatively” 40-to death. i hear it all the time from people. “yea, when i was in college, i was big time supporter of (whichever liberal at the time), now i am alot more conservative.”
my thinking is students are way too persuasive and want to be diffterent than mommy and daddy only to realize later in life that mommy and daddy weren’t so dumb after all.
r
i am all for change. give me a life in America that is simple. give me a safe place to live. let me keep the money i have worked hard for. don’t give it to some slub sitting on a couch not willing to work. teach people good morals and a good work ethic.

i am sick of bickering and postering from both sides. sick of politics in general.
no one seems to really want to help America. only to help themselves. if a politician is not for term limits, than they are not worth voting for.

by mo on Sep 4, 2008 8:23 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

it's definitely a trend

it’s not “the rule” by any means.

I think it’s because conservatives typically value their money more (want tax cuts). When you’re in college, you typically aren’t getting paid and thus aren’t seeing how much in taxes you’re paying.

That’s not to make fun of anyone either.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 4, 2008 8:25 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

though..

…i don’t see conservatives “valuing their money more”(which is a cheap shot), i do agree that people with money tend to vote republican if only for the republican stance mantra of keeping what you’ve earned… though the last couple of republicans in office actually increased spending, as long as the wealthy are afforded the opportunity to not have to pay “more than their fair share” they will continue to vote and hardline as republicans… of course this is creating an ever increasing gap between the classes that doesn’t look like its going to fix itself anytime soon…

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 4, 2008 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'll be honest

i’m greedy. a lot of Republicans are greedy. some Democrats are too.

Tax cuts speak to me though, and historically, Republicans have lowered taxes while Democrats have not. Yes, some have, but I think we can agree that Republicans generally will give back more in taxes.

I completely respect anyone’s opinion that tax cuts are short-sighted (national debt, benefit the rich too much, etc.). Again though…I’m greedy.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 4, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just wish

the Republicans were as aggressive in pushing spending cuts as they are in pushing tax cuts.

I’m greedy too, but I’m not dumb. The Republican plan is akin to the wife who spends thousands “saving money” at shopping sales.

Its basicly pay me now, or pay me later, and most of the things we buy as a nation aren’t worth buying in the first place, let alone buying on a charge card. The $10 trillion or so we end up with in debt by the end of the Bush administration, just insures that one of the top things we will be “buying” as a nation is interest payments on the mostly Republican created debt.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My problem

With a broadly-defined “tax cut” is that it only “works” if people spend the money anyway. The supply side theory is, simplified, that $X you would be paying directly to the government should instead be invested in Y, which will then eventually (hopefully) result in more revenue for the government.

In other words, future tax cuts will not be implemented if you were simply “greedy” and just held on to your money, or if you really wanted a decreased federal government.

That’s why I prefer to cut the more narrow taxes, rather than income.

by brettgardner on Sep 5, 2008 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

age

If that were true (that liberals usually turn conservative as they age), no Democrat would ever get elected because young people have only very recently started to vote in significant numbers.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 6:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I forget who said it...

but the saying goes, “Show me a young conservative, and I’ll show you a man with no heart. Show me an old liberal, and I’ll show you a man with no brains.”

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 8:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't know who said that?

The attribution is to Churchill (though you’ve misquoted it), but it seems more than likely that it is apocryphal.

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If the attribution is apocryphal...

then you don’t know who said it, either.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 4, 2008 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right.

See, that’s what apocryphal means.

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 9:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As an independent

I am still leaning towards Obama. I think I would actually vote for Palin if she were running for president, but McCain just looks like he is held together with glue sticks and silly putty. It seems to me that McCain chose Palin to win over some of the Clinton supporters that aren’t fully on board with Obama. Ib don’t know if that will work, but I think she is a better choice than some of the other possibilities.

The democrats probably could have won an election against Bush if they could have come up with some better candidates than Gore or Kerry. I think Obama is their best shot. Personally I have issues with both parties, but hopefully whoever wins will not screw up this country anymore than it already is.

by brentash on Sep 4, 2008 8:31 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

though...

…i think if gore ran now he’d win pretty easily… at the time he was seen as withdrawn and unpersonable… after his movie and enviromental efforts he’s pretty widely known now and would probably win…

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 4, 2008 8:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

AP fact check on Palin's speech.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 9:46 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i only wish..

..they had done the same thing for the democrats so we don’t hear the “liberal media” calls…

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 4, 2008 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sure

they did. Its a fairly normal story. I didn’t see the Obama gameday thread to drop it into.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are fact checks for the Dem convention, too

go to factcheck.org, they cover all the campaign stuff. Most newspapers do this after major speeches, too. The DMN published some right before the TX Dem primary comparing Clinton and Obama’s facts. Can’t remember if they did last week.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 10:24 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another good one is politifact...

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Best short analysis I've heard about the speech so far

I think is was Susan Page, can’t remember, caught it on the radio while flipping stations. Paraphrasing, she said something like:

Palin’s speech was very good and she handled probably the largest crowd and most attention she’s faced to date well. But she may have given the right speech at the wrong time. She was preaching to the choir on a night when most Americans wanted to get to know who she was. Her speech obviously excited the people that already support her with enthusiasm. Maybe she should have been introducing herself and persuading people who are less likely to do so instead.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 9:51 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I don’t see how she did anything to pull these mythical disenchanted Hillary voters.

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 9:58 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the only...

…hillary voters she’s pulling are the ones who were voting for hillary cause she has lady parts… the ones who didn’tlike hillary cause of her political stance just think it would be great to have a woman “break through that glass ceiling”… democratic women hillary supporters don’t like palin… way too right for them… but palin will pick up the “i want a woman in the white house” crowd since they don’t seem to really get into the politics part of it…

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 4, 2008 10:38 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's because you're nothing more than a smarmy 21 year old

law student with almost zero perspective.

First of all, disenchanted Hillary voters is not a myth. Bump around the blogosphere and you’ll see where Hillary backers are in agreeance that the media’s treatment of Palin was sexist.

It’s been 24 long years since a woman was given a spot on either party’s ticket and last night, the lovely Mrs. Palin shattered the glass ceiling and not only paved the way for others but also showed those same women that yes, you can try to have it all and not feel guilty about it.

I have watched conventions since I was a tyke in 1972 and although TKennedy’s speech in 1980 was pretty salty, last night’s Palin speech may have been the most important, long-ranging and meaningful speech I have ever heard at a convention.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 4, 2008 10:49 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As TO would say

Get your popcorn ready.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 4, 2008 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that must be great kool-aid...

"He wont have anything. 1 man, 0 tools."~ hiafex bout longhorn...

by ivysafety39 on Sep 4, 2008 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your post proves my point in a way

or Susan Page’s point. Of course you thought the speech was good, you’re already a supporter. But her attacks may have been a bit too cheeky, sarcastic, to appeal to the moderate swing voters they need. If this election comes down to each candidate relying on their bases only, Obama wins. McCain needs moderates a bit more than Obama does.

Most important, long-ranging and meaningful speech? That seems a bit over the top.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 11:08 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I

Freely admit to being a smarmy 21 year old law student with almost zero perspective.

I’m also a punk-ass liberal puke and any other trite expression you can conjure up to infuriate me.

I’m also somebody with a question:

How can you asses whether Obama has the necessary skills to be President without knowing him?

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 11:12 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't correct yourself

Asses might be right.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Sep 4, 2008 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Shattering the glass ceiling"

Evidently you don’t fully grasp the meaning of that metaphor.

That was either already done by Ferraro, or won’t be done unless McCain/Palin win.

No glass ceilings were shattered last night,

And I agree, disenchanted Hillary voters, ala PUMAs, are a very real phenomenon. But it’s a pretty miniscule one. They are loud, and they are angry, and they are some crybaby sore losers, but they aren’t large in number. That’s a pipe dream.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 1:06 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Brian,

What about the women that weren’t going to vote at all after Hillary got beat. Do you think that is a minuscule group?

by corbsclinton on Sep 4, 2008 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

Those are exactly the fringe people he was talking about.

I understand that there’s a certain symbolic appeal for a woman or minority to be elected. It’s proof of progress, if nothing else. But packing your bags and going home because a flawed candidate couldn’t win seems pretty silly, and a view that most women I know wouldn’t hold.

Even if that were a large contingent, wouldn’t they be upset that Palin is VP? If the dispositive factor in her place right now is her executive experience, then shouldn’t she be headlining instead of McCain?

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope like hell

its a tiny, tiny minority.

To switch from voting for one candidate, to one that is diametrically opposed on most issues because of gender would be fairly silly.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I think that is who he was talking about as well and I have to say I think most here are underestimating that group. I think you can lump that group with moderate republicans that don’t call themselves republicans anymore because of their right-wing extreme leadership doesn’t represent them. I think you can lump that group in with all the “soccer/hockey moms” that don’t turn out at the polls because they are taking care of children/running errands. Then you can lump that group with the tiny minority (agreed) that’s just voting to vote for a female VP.

Will she win liberal Hillary votes? No. Agreed. But I definitely think she made a bunch of woman consider voting that normally wouldn’t have this election because they connected with her last night.

Also, Cahill. Turn the tables real quick. Say someone other than Hillary took the nomination and made Obama their VP choice. Do you think he wouldn’t get black voters out that normally wouldn’t because he’s black? I agree with many of the posts above, race will play a bigger part in this election than gender. But, to underestimate gender, like many are doing here, is a mistake.

by corbsclinton on Sep 4, 2008 1:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think my mom may fit into this group

she has historically supported Democrats (Kerry, Gore, Clinton). I’m pretty sure the last Republican she voted for was Reagan in 84.

She doesn’t align herself with Democrats because of being pro-choice (although she probably leans that way when forced to pick a side). I think she sides with the Democrats because she is a very charitable person, and the Democrats have always come across as the most sincere and giving when it comes to those born without.

However, she’s also somewhat of a feminist in the sense that she’s shattered her own “glass ceiling” by overcoming sexism in the workforce. She’s worked her way up in her company to a very successful, powerful position, and I think she identifies and relates to those who can manage to do the same while having a family.

I asked my mom what she thought of Palin’s speech, not expecting much in terms of praise. She responded that she thought it was a very good speech and that she does really like Palin. She said she’s now debating who to vote for.

I know some of you will think I’m making this up, but it’s the truth. Everyone has their own reasons to vote for somebody. She may end up voting Obama/Biden, but the fact that she’s actually considering McCain/Palin shocked me to a degree.

Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball

by willamos2 on Sep 4, 2008 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, we are actually talking about 2 groups

Those that are mad and said they would stay home or vote for McCain, and will.

And those that said that, but when push comes to shove, won’t follow through.

I think the 1st group is pretty miniscule.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 6:05 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

Most of the women who were saying stuff like that have already come around. Most of those who haven’t will because they will learn just how far to the right Palin is on social issues. The rest are the really angry kind, and won’t make a dent on the electoral map because I bet most of them call NY and Berkley home.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 7:03 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree

I think it’s potentially dangerous to underestimate the amount of “disaffected” Clinton supporters.

For one thing, they tend to be older women than Obama supporters, well past the child-bearing years. So, there’s no disincentive for them socially about the Republicans w/ abortion

For another thing, they tend to be more conservative since they’re older and the more conservative types don’t phase them as much.

I don’t know HOW big they are, but I think it would be a mistake to underestimate the number.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The polls suggest they aren't a large number

I was worried about this at one time but now I’m not.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't completely trust polling...

Plus, I tend to be a pessimist about these sort of things.

And my father basically tends to worry about everything that can go wrong, and I’ve somewhat inherited those traits (whether through biology or training).

So, I could be worrying over nothing….

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you are

They are a very, very vocal group, which tends to inflate the appearance of their numbers.

Tens of thousands, tops. Darragh Murphy is a fucking wackadoo.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 8:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I liked

when she was talking about herself. Then the second part of her speech was the same old attack crap we’ve heard from McCain/Clinton. How’d that work out for Clinton again? Anyway, I’m always a sucker for fiscally conservative talk, though I fully realize it’s all empty rhetoric coming from the GOP. .

Meanwhile, the powder keg few are talking about in Pakistan is about to blow.

by SteveP on Sep 4, 2008 12:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The way I see it

The “fiscally conservative” banter between the two candidates comes down to this:

One will try, and fail, to pass through sweeping and expansive healthcare reform.

One will not try to do that.

One will raise tax A

The other will let credit B expire.

The only difference I see is the wasted time of Congress, because it’s largely an exercise in bait-and-switch from both of them.

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 1:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amen to that.

Obama’s ideas may be just too big to pass, McCain would be working with a hostile congress. Or worse, Obama’s spending ideas get passed, but ways to pay for them don’t.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

mccain may not

spend as much up front, but in the back side he will. how many wars will he involve our troops in? where does the money for that come from?

cutting earmarks? the same types of earmarks he fought against palin receiving in alaska? including the bridge to nowhere that she supported while running for governor BEFORE being against it?

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 2:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

where did you find

that she was for the bridge to nowhere? Even if that’s true, do you not make educated decisions based on the information available to you at the time? Do you also think that she got better/more information once in office than she had while running?

I absolutely love the rhetoric being thrown around trying to discredit her. It has all been crap so far…

by corbsclinton on Sep 4, 2008 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

devil's advocate

Ok, it’s one thing to credit her for changing her mind on the bridge to nowhere, it’s quite another to paint her as a crusader for reform using that as one of your bullet points. She’s lobbied for lots of money in Alaska. I don’t have a problem with that, per se, it’s what you do for your constituents. I just have a problem with her pretending she hasn’t done that and painting herself as anti-pork. She was obviously for pork when it was good for her career, and is now against it for the same reason.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 4, 2008 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

her being before the bridge to nowhere

Sarah Palin supported Ketchikan ‘bridge to nowhere’ during 2006 race for Alaska governor

yep. when running for governor she supports the federal government spending money and building a project in her state. then she takes it back.

this wouldn’t be an issue—if she didn’t bring it up.

and mccain fighting a crusade against earmarks is only gonna make us look at what earmarks palin has asked for/supported.

it’s not discrediting her for the sake of discrediting her (like that picture above of her in college) it’s pointing out where she is lieing/misleading/is at odds with mccain.

boo the media for asking questions.
i’m for them investigating obama’s buying his property at market value by the way.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 3:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

"educated dicisions at the time?"

like when john kerry was for the war before he was against it? his explanation wasn’t good enough for convertrash. a flip flop is a flip flop. blablabla. regarding his information at the time, he was going by what bush and rummy and dick and powell were telling him. which were a combination of lies and cherry picked facts.

she brought up the bridge to nowhere last night, “i said thanks, but no thanks”

what she should have said is, “i said thanks, thanks a lot! and then, no thanks, it’s not so good for my career, nevermind”

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah,

maybe it is as cut and dry as a flip flop. Thanks for the link and from what she said last night that is quite a spin. Cutting your losses is nothing to apologize for but its probably best not to make it sound like you were on your final decision side the entire time. Not quite the magnitude of the Kerry-War flip flop, but definitely something to think about. What else do you have?

by corbsclinton on Sep 4, 2008 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree about Kerry

I’ve been pretty anti-Bush since his invasion into Iraq, and even I thought that Kerry didn’t talk about his war record in an effective manner.

All he had to say was something like “Unlike some people, when I get better information, that contradicts my viewpoints, I change my mind to fit with that information, rather than hold tightly with a deathgrip those viewpoints I want to believe in. It’s called intelligence.”

Unfortunately, he never did a good job of articulating that, and got labeled a flip-flopper which he was unable to shed.

R

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If thats the

best anyone can come up with I think McCain found a pretty damn good candidate.

by corbsclinton on Sep 5, 2008 8:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

bottom line

obama is a celebrity. why? because people like him. and that’s bad.

mccain is a leader. why? nobody likes him. that’s good. that=maverick outsider

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 12:48 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It wasn't a HORRIBLE speech

but it just wasn’t… good…

Dan Quayle with pigtails.

by cmkelly29 on Sep 4, 2008 1:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Really?

You’re the first I’ve heard who thought it wasn’t good.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 5:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think she was helped

by the horrible angry scathing attacks from giuliani that preceeded her. really rudy? why would you do that to yourself? rudy is barely 1 step above romney in integrity

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 5:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rudy did his job

he better be offered a spot in McCain’s office somewhere if he wins. Cause that was some political sacrifice there.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 6:23 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

the exact thing

that hillary refused to do. and nobody blamed her.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 6:31 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

aww, poor baby

did u get your feeling hurt?

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 4, 2008 7:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no

it just made rudy look really really angry and really bad. really. it was a joke.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

did you even see biden's speech?

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 4, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes i did

and he said some things about mccain, sure. but no where near the giuliani rampage. no way you can say he did.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 8:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So....

McCain Speech, Obama on O’Reilly, Giants vs Redskins. If you could only watch one tonight which would it be?

"Mr. Hicks, you watch, I'm going to be a leader on this team." Kinsler

by sprite on Sep 4, 2008 1:59 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Obama/O'Reilly

Is that tonight? I’ll have to watch that. I haven’t watched the NO SPIN ZONE since Colbert was on.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 4, 2008 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmm

i’m gonna go with obama on oreilly

followed by giants redskins.

mccain speech ain’t nothing. palin was the main event.

gosh, they hate community organizers don’t they.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

From Drudge

“PALIN RAISES MONEY — FOR OBAMA! Exclusive Obama scores $8 million since Palin’s speech from over 130,000 donors – on pace to hit $10 million by the time John McCain hits stage, campaign says… Developing…”

can she speak again tonight? please?

"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"

by enut21 on Sep 4, 2008 5:47 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i'm sure she raised a lot of money for mccain

unfortunately for mccain, after tonight he can’t raise anymore (i think that’s when his public finance cuts it off?)

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

She raised 1 million...

by the time Obama was nearly at 10 million.

Obama’s fundraising is just nucking futs.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 5, 2008 1:01 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The truth about the spinmeister's :)

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=184086

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 5:55 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Pretty good find.

I don’t watch that show nearly enough.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 7:10 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

because it's only for morons

look who linked it.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 4, 2008 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cause you're just a teenage dirtbaggggggg

Your taste in music is the only thing worse than your contribution to these threads.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 4, 2008 7:21 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

right.

and because you are an extremist liberal you bring only stupid ideological nonsense to these type of threads.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 4, 2008 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually

I’ve chimed in here and there, but the most radical view I’ve made is calling US Weekly a piece of trash. Ooooooo I’m such an extremist liberal, brah! You, on the other hand, continue resort to name calling and ignoring posts trying to get you to participate in a legitimate debate. You gave me vague answers to what was wrong with Obama, and when I asked you to elaborate you ignored that too.

P.S. Your taste in music sucks.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 4, 2008 7:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Name calling?

how about you go back and see who actually ‘started’ the name calling…

P.S. – must be a very lonely life when you actually care what kind of music someone at a blog likes…

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 4, 2008 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I remember who started it

I’ve watched you do it to a countless number of people who are (usually) trying to have a legit discussion. It’d be one thing if you contributed anything yourself, but you never do.

My life is fine, thanks for asking. I’m more worried about you, considering your favorite song says….

Man I feel like mold
It’s prom night and I am lonely.
Low and behold
she’s walking over to me.

Mold/Behold. Wow, thats some real poetic stuff. As pathetic as that is, it has more substance than any of your posts.

Old war wound. Acts up around morons.

by TheBZA on Sep 4, 2008 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

re: "must be a very lonely life"

If anyone would know, it’s you, the 25-year old virgin…

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 4, 2008 8:13 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

So how do you deal with the hypocrisy of your idols?

Do you just pretend it doesn’t exist? Is it okay because, after all, they are YOUR idols? Seriously, in what intellectually honest way do you reconcile that?

by Athos on Sep 5, 2008 12:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another witty retort

By the guy who can’t put more than 10 words together if his life depended on it.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 4, 2008 7:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Welcome back 1 man, 0 tools

I thought you sacrificed yourself to raise funds for the McCain campaign or something.

by hiafex on Sep 5, 2008 1:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Heh

Not a huge fan of that show, but that clip was quite funny…

by jcir454 on Sep 4, 2008 10:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap

That was awesome. I love it when hypocrisy is exposed.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 8:06 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

yea,

kinda of like when Senators and Congressmen don’t have to pay SS and get a huge pension fund when hardly anyone is getting those these days. when they say i want to take your money but you can’t take mine. i am sure they get a great health care too. that is why they don’t want to fix it or SS. they have no clue how bad it really is. both sides of the aisle on this . But Rep. usually want lower taxes in order to keep hard earned money. Dems want to take it, just not theirs.

by mo on Sep 5, 2008 8:53 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

Most congresspersons and senators are extremely out of touch economically, living in a bubble and insulated from common concerns about health care costs and retirement among other things. It’s disingenuous of either party to point at the other on this issue, they’re both guilty.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reps want to run Deficits, and keep wars going

thats their economic plan to keep the economy rolling.

Sure, that’s completely unfair, but its in line with your absurd “But Rep. usually want lower taxes in order to keep hard earned money. Dems want to take it, just not theirs.”

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 5, 2008 9:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

I didn’t read through mo’s entire post. That last sentence is just drive by baloney, to put it politely.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 5, 2008 1:28 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was great...

“In Dick Morris’ defense he is a lying sack of shit.”

Always funny to see the hypocrisy running rampant amongst the republicans.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 5, 2008 10:37 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw that the other night.

I couldn’t stop laughing.

by Athos on Sep 5, 2008 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

mccain will have a huge audience tonight

thanks to football i guess.

the game is about to start. mccain will speak about 9PM. so he’ll get carry over audience from giants/skins that he would not have had.

i imagine that if the game goes late (OT, timeouts, etc…) he’ll just wait and wait until the game ends.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 6:08 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

lol

bububu enut, athos, djc and the other far left libs say it’s all fair….the coverage is soooo fair.

"Popularity is fleeting. Principles are forever."
"Maybe congress should take more vacations, whenever these people leave town, things just seem to get better..." - Jay Leno

by Longhorn on Sep 4, 2008 7:30 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My Uncle Jack

Was Indiana party chair (for something, not sure which committee) in the ’70’s. He was county chair for about 40 years before that. He had a saying that I’ve not forgotten. “If the reporters are all for something, run the other way as fast as you can.” And that was long before adversary journalism and its’ stepchild, subtle slashing, became mode du jour. Heh …………

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)

by Ed Coffin on Sep 4, 2008 7:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

If McCain's speech

Were in isolation, I’d be very happy.

Unfortunately, this comes after a convention of bitter attacks by underlings.

I’m fine with McCain, but these other people are weighing him down.

I can only hope that Rudy, Romney, and Thompson don’t get a seat at the table, and that Palin gets Gore’d.

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 9:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Well

I don’t mind Romney.

by brettgardner on Sep 4, 2008 9:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

what have we learned?

john mccain is a maverick. and in case you didn’t know that, here’s why….

it’s like saying, “i’m cool, and here’s why”

john mccain was a POW. i mean, wow. did you know john edwards’s dad was a millworker? or the 1 thing george w. bush regrets in his entire life is trading sammy sosa.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 9:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmmmm

Did he wear the blue and white or green and white?

And did he wear 15, 22 or 41?

by Requiem on Sep 4, 2008 9:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

mccain is wearing enough makeup

to keep maybeline afloat for the next 3 years even if nobody buys their product anymore

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 4, 2008 9:45 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Chris Matthews just said he thinks

McCain will be leading after this week.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 10:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

More of the same shit

But here’s something. I will be happier during the next four years than I have been the last eight, no matter what happens. Well unless McCain wins and starts a bunch of wars or maybe a really big one. But both he and McCain beat the hell our of Bush, am I right?

I betcha 90 percent of people here would agree on that.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 10:21 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely

But here’s a question my girlfriend posed

Who would you rather have sitting in the President’s seat:

George W. Bush or Sarah Palin?

by cmkelly29 on Sep 4, 2008 10:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Easy for me

Palin and hope she can figure out a way to surround herself with good people. We know Bush is incapable of that.

by robert_d_wilfong on Sep 4, 2008 10:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neither

If John McCain is elected I will pray for his health and well-being every night, and I’m serious.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 10:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Former Bush speechwriter

really laying into McCain’s speech.

by cmkelly29 on Sep 4, 2008 10:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

How so?

I was on the phone for a while and had to pause the speech so I’m still watching.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 10:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Called it typical, uninspired

The only powerful part was when he discussed his time as a POW.

Said it pretty much copied a lot of other Republican speeches in policy. The GOP wants to hear something different, and he didn’t do it.

by cmkelly29 on Sep 4, 2008 10:38 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

he called out the GOP several times and said that they have failed in Washington. I don’t think in the history of the election process has a candidate running for the party which is already in power called his own party out so much. So I have to disagree with the former bush writer.

"Sooner or later, prospects kill you, because you hang onto them." - Greggo, 11/22/2005

by Agreen07 on Sep 4, 2008 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a Democrat

…there were some things that turned me off. I won’t bother listing them right now because I have other stuff to do and most people can probably guess what they are, anyway.

There was one part that resonated with me, and that was the part where he called out the GOP for letting the country down. I really do think he’s an honorable guy. Not talking about the POW stuff (call me cold but I kind of feel I’ve been beaten to death with it). While I do believe it’s true that he’s sacrificed some things to appeal to the party, but regardless I have more faith in him than any other Republican.

I think we have two good, distinct choices. Divided government’s not always a bad thing, but do we need to fix so many things that it would be better to have the Democrats control Congress and the White House for a while? I guess it depends on how bad undecided voters think things have gotten.

by Black Francis on Sep 4, 2008 10:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Divided Government.

I really hate that argument.

Why should McCain be rewarded because the democrats stomped the republicans teeth in 2 years ago after 6 years of bullshit? If the Democrats control both houses of congress and the Presidency, and can’t get the job done they will be voted out in 2010 and 2012.

"Jesus was a community organizer. Pontius Pilate was a governor"

by enut21 on Sep 4, 2008 11:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well if you'd be kind enough to read my post again

I did say that things may be so screwed up that it requires both houses and the presidency to be controlled by the same party for a while. At the same time, that’s absolute power and you know what comes with that? Losing a lot of elections like the Republicans are doing now. I trust Obama and a majority of the Democrats in Congress. However, I’m not of a mind to trust all of them, especially in the House of Representatives. I could see scandals popping up everywhere within three years.

It’s not really about any party being rewarded, anyway. It’s about effective government. Obviously I’m very partisan, but I’m still more pragmatic than partisan so in the end all I care about is getting things to work.

by Black Francis on Sep 5, 2008 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting

Check out the Bush 2000 acceptance speech. There are a lot of similar things to the McCain speech (lowering taxes and increasing the child tax credit), a lot of foreshadowing of what was to come from the Bush administration (strengthening of the military) and a lot of complete failures (condemning the Clinton Admin not giving the budget surplus back to the workers, reaching across party lines).

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/bush080300.html

If I thought McCain would actually do what he said he would do tonight, I’d vote for him in a heartbeat. But I can’t believe the Republicans and I can’t let myself vote for someone who could be a war-monger and could continue to destroy the economy.

by robert_d_wilfong on Sep 4, 2008 11:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs