New Politics thread 9-05

i think most of us can agree

that the republican convention was a big success for mccain. a bigger impact than the dnc was for obama.

i think we can also agree that cynthia mckinney is a pyscho and we can all be thankful the green party won’t win.

currently obama has about a 3 point lead on mccain in the polls.
currently obama is projected to win the electoral college, 311 to 227 OR 301 to 224 when you don’t count virginia.

those numbers change weekly though, and i’d expect mccain to get another boost monday in the polls and maybe even gain a few projected electoral votes.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 2:22 PM CDT 0 recs

Does Not Compute

You argue, rightly, that McKinney is a pyscho, yet it seems you support Pat Buchanan for president. That does not compute as he is just as crazy as she is.

by jf55510 on Sep 5, 2008 3:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

mckinney fighting

security on the steps?

pat buchanan isn’t psycho buster. lay off.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 3:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

Buchanan has more hair

in his ears than thedirkatron has on his head.

by robert_d_wilfong on Sep 5, 2008 7:11 PM CDT up 0 recs

Oh, snap!

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 7, 2008 1:24 AM CDT up 0 recs

I was disappointed in McCain’s speech last night. There was not a lot of substance there. Not really any detailed plan on making the country better. He mentioned Bush, which could come back and haunt him, and thanked him. He basically just reiterated Reaganomics with a few tweaks. He ended it with a “Fight” chat and I’m just not sure Americans are going to get in line to fight right now.

As for Palin, her attacks on Obama apparently have inspired Obama’s supporters to donate more money. She definitely made quite the impression. Oh and here is a letter from a resident of Wasilla. The website claims to have talked to the lady in question and that the letter is legitimate and printed with her consent. Unfortunately, you can’t really verify her numbers so take that with a grain of salt.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Sep 5, 2008 2:25 PM CDT 0 recs

palin is raising $$ for mccain too though

she’s definitely rallying mccain’s base and obama’s base. question is how much in the middle will she bring in for mccain or turn off of obama. as of right now it was a bold and apparently genius move for mccain. that could change though and end up a big mistake. find out in about 60 days

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 2:31 PM CDT up 0 recs

I actually liked his speech

from the beginning in which he thanked the gov for the efforts it has done to protect the company, to the part where he was praising Palin, while for a short while focusing on criticizing Obama. The best part, however, imo, was when he was distanced himself from the Bush Administration. He needed to do that, and he did that almost perfectly.

"Well, the Dallas Mavericks got beat by the New Orleans Hornets last night ending their season. Word is that someone on the team is dating Jessica Simpson." - Jay Leno

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by hinduplaya on Sep 5, 2008 2:50 PM CDT up 0 recs

I agree

He did a good job at criticizing both Bush and the Republican leadership in Congress. It was somewhat subtle, and it wasn’t received very warmly by the audience, who weren’t in the mood for any blame thrown their way. But it was a good calling out of people who need to be called out.

Its not fair to compare his style to Obama or Palin – he’s not a charismatic speaker like they are. No matter what the speech was, it was going to be a little bit of an emotional dud

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

we will see

i think the republicans are complaining with the with way the media is “treating” her but they gotta ask questions and look into her. they know nothing. she’s not like other other guys that have been in the spotlight and looked over. i think lots of things will come out. lots of garbage that hopefully goes away, and probably some bad things that are real, hopefully they are brought into the spotlight. she’s looking more and more like the “bitch” that hillary is, the “bitch” that republicans and half democrats hate.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 3:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

I must have missed that distancing part.

The things he talked about sounded like the same old empty promises we’ve heard for the last 8 years.

by Athos on Sep 5, 2008 4:01 PM CDT up 0 recs

I agree

He kept talking about being a maverick, but it all came out very very republican and in line with what Bush was saying 8 years ago.

by naropean on Sep 5, 2008 5:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

I agree

She’s basically established herself as the most divisive figure in politics today. I think this will end up being a good gamble for McCain.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Sep 5, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

hillary

"I don’t know of a single thing Obama’s done except talk and write." - Newt Gingrich

by knockoutking on Sep 5, 2008 4:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

I think she has surpassed HRC as divisive, but I can see your point. I think there was a poll that 40% of Americans don’t want to see HRC as President ever. I think Palin has surpassed her, but I can’t prove it.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Sep 5, 2008 4:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

Shocking

Another Borrow and Spend Republican, who begs for money from the Federal Government. Also a fan of Censorship.

Basicly, a model Republican.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 5, 2008 2:51 PM CDT up 0 recs

i saw a chart one time

that showed how much return on the dollar states got from their money paid in federal dollars. states that returned the least were new york and california type states. and states that got returns of like about $1.34 for each dollar are the mississippi and alabamas. basically the red states are the welfare states and the blue states are screwed over. but it’s not like red’s to complain about taxes or anything.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 3:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

well, to an extent that is reasonable

states like Wyoming with low population yet high infrastructure costs are going to get a disproportionate amount of money. I’m sure Wyomingites would be fine if there were no highways other than between Casper and Cheyenne, but the people driving trucks between Montana, South Dakota and Colorado wouldn’t be so happy.

If you ask me, the federal government should spend money on 3 things, and 3 things only: Military, Infrastructure (basically hwys), and foreign affairs. Basically, if the cost affects multiple states, then it should be federal, if it affects a state’s individually, it should be state. Red States tend to be physically bigger, requiring more interstate infrastructure, so they should get a l. But if blue states don’t think they benefit from money for a highway through Nevada, then they’ll be surprised when their Napa wine shipments take longer to get to them

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

Government funding

One more thing the government IMO should spend it’s money is protecting citizens from getting screwed by big money interests. This means trust busting but also means organizations like EPA, OSHA, FDA, and the FCC. Most private citizens don’t have the capital to sue an organization that is acting inappropriately. The federal government does have the resources and can sue them (whether they do or not is another story).

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Sep 6, 2008 4:49 PM CDT up 0 recs

You are possibly referring to information compiled in this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Great-Divide-Retro-Metro-America/dp/0976062100

It is an interesting study on that subject among others. To your point, essentially Texas was one of the only red states that gave alot more than it got back.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 5, 2008 4:38 PM CDT up 0 recs

fwiw

This comes from FoxNews so some of you will automatically discount it.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09/05/top-7-myths-lies-and-untruths-about-sarah-palin/

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 5, 2008 2:52 PM CDT 0 recs

I don't discount it

I think because she was such new political figure, the internet and by extension the media got ahead of themselves a bit. There’s enough stuff to not like about Palin that doesn’t require salacious rumor mongering (yes Daily Kos I’m looking at you).

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Sep 5, 2008 2:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

Look for McCain to start moving to the center

In one fell swoop, Palin has satisfied all of McCain’s critics from the right – both religious and fiscal. I doubt any other pick could have done that as well. While it did not really create a strong message for moderates, the convention did a good job of showing McCain’s base that he is enough of one of them. With Palin, he won’t have to worry about that 40% of the vote anymore.

Now it is time to move towards that middle 20%. Right now, I’d say it looks pretty much 50/50 between McCain/Obama, though Obama has some built in advantages (economy, Bush, etc).

I bet we see McCain start making some policy proposals that have broader appeal – specifically with some things he teased in his talk yesterday (change unemployment structure, education, energy). He didn’t want these to be too revealed at the convention, as the base probably wont’ be too happy with them, and he wants to see where he stands after things settle down (to know how far left he has to go).

I think McCain’s secret advantage over Obama is that all of Obama’s policies are already well defined and people know them. He’s benefiting from that now, but it gives McCain an opportunity to target the specifics of his proposals accordingly. With the base solidified, McCain has a lot more freedom to do what he needs to do to win the election.

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 3:12 PM CDT 0 recs

mccain and others

have attacked obama for not giving specifics while they themselves do

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 3:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

obama needs to keep

reminding people that mccain votes with bush 90% of the time. and then ask if they are happy about the war, our standing with the world, and the economy.

and he then needs to remind them (and he has) that when mccain keeps attacking congress, it’s silly because mccain has been there a while (so has biden, however) BUT that the dems have only been in control for less than 2 years now in the house and senate. and for 12 years the republicans controlled the house and senate (other than a brief 2 year time a few years ago in the senate).

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 3:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yeah. Exactly.

Obama’s line will be something like “Don’t be fooled. Only one candidate represents an actual change from the damaging Bush policies”. The Dems strategy all along has been to cast McCain as the third term of Bush, and I haven’t heard anything yet that would stop that strategy cold in its steps.

That could change. I am surprised with how well the Maverick rhetoric went over with the Republican base. I was so confused by the many talks about reforming Washington, since the Republicans have been in charge of Washington for the past 5 years. Somehow, it seems McCain has convinced the base they need to reform themselves, or maybe they don’t understand it that way.

Go Rangers!

by rooster on Sep 5, 2008 3:26 PM CDT up 0 recs

Well

McCain is the only candidate that can get away with that, because it is pretty well known that most hard-core Republicans despise McCain. Which is also why I think the “he’s the same as Bush” argument won’t work either.

It may not be true anymore, but Bush and McCain are well-known to the average American as enemies. Most people know McCain only as “that guy who ran a bitter primary against Bush in 2000.” It makes the “McCain = Bush” argument more difficult to make and sound a little hollow. It may stick, but Obama will need something more than a 90% voting record (which is probably one of the lowest agreements of Republicans in the Senate)

Completely implausible hypothetical, but if in 4 years, suppose Obama’s been an utter disaster and Hillary is running for the Democratic nomination, she’ll be able to run as a “change” candidate, even if she votes with Obama 90% of the time going forward. She and Obama are going down in history as not liking each other.

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

obama is a change

from bush. and the country is leaning toward a change from republicans. this can be seen in governor’s races, house and senate races too.

it’s his version of gingrich’s contract with america. (i realize that dems won back control in 2006, but 2008 could be bigger assuming obama wins)

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 3:55 PM CDT up 0 recs

I get that

my point is that McCain is also a change in many people’s minds. Which is why the Dems are going to win tons of seats no matter what, but McCain may still beat Obama.

Its possible that the Dems pick up 6 or 7 senate seats, who knows how many house seats, and McCain beats Obama.

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

Maybe you're right that the McCain = Bush argument won't stick.

I’ve been thinking the Dems would need to change tactics after the positive response from conservatives to McCain’s speech. It appears that McCain will make the argument that Obama’s idea of change is the wrong way and, besides, Obama’s inexperience makes him impotent anyway.

So, then the Dems need to decide if they’re going to continue to align McCain with Bush no matter how unnatural that may be or change tactics and argue Obama’s ideas of how to change are somehow better than McCain’s new direction. The second tactic is a lot harder approach to strategize. It is a lot more fluid.

Go Rangers!

by rooster on Sep 5, 2008 4:05 PM CDT up 0 recs

There is one more problem with the McCain = Bush argument

The issue is why do people hate Bush so much? Is it his policies, or is it his style/intellect/capability? Obviously those on the left hate him for both, but what about the middle voter?

Now, if it is the Bush policies, then yeah, effectively equating McCain with Bush will be a strong strategy.

But if the problem with Bush is Bush himself and not his politics, then saying McCain = Bush can backfire. Because everyone can look at McCain and know he’s more capable and prepared to lead the country than GWB. Has anyone asked if they would vote for a qualified version of GWB?

Honestly, I don’t know which is the case, but I don’t think it is as obvious as people make it out to be (from both the left and right wings, it is just too easy to lump it all together). Heck, many of Bush’s proposed domestic policies were either popular or very moderate, but failed because he wasn’t capable of getting them through or administrating them well (social security reform, immigration, prescription drugs, education (with Kennedy…)). It is possible Bush is just incredibly unpopular because he is goofy, doesn’t look serious, and got a bad reputation…

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 4:14 PM CDT up 0 recs

I don't think anyone dislikes Bush personally

He seems like a pretty affable guy. The only problem I have with his personality is that it’s so laid back that he’s not always the ideal statesman.

The reason his approval numbers are so low are his policies. Most importantly, he seems indifferent about the economy in terms of the shrinking middle class. And of course there’s the war. It’s going better nowadays, but the question of whether we should even be there or not is still a valid one. AND I think there’s another argument that could be made about why the war is going better and it has only a little bit to do with the surge. Along with the surge, the Administration finally re-evaluated their diplomatic approach (on the advice of Petreaus) and that has probably helped quell violence more than anything else. So if McCain wants to keep going with the “surge” strategy, there’s going to be a legitimate counter.

NCLB is getting more and more unpopular by the day, as people are slowly realizing that it forces schools to “teach to the test”. Even smart kids who are now entering college are having to take remedial classes because they have no liberal arts background. The medicare prescription plan is becoming more unpopular with both parties. I actually agree with Bush and McCain on immigration more often than not, but their party doesn’t and a lot of the public doesn’t. Most people do not want social security reformed in the way that Bush wants it reformed.

It’s definitely his policy. Now a lot of people don’t keep up with the news and maybe they can’t point to more than two or three specific Bush policies they don’t like, but what they do know is that they’re not doing nearly as well as they used to be.

Then you add on the fact that he’s so laid back and sometimes a little arrogant while the American people are struggling, and it’s not really hard to see why his approval ratings are low. But I don’t think it starts with him personally. If things were going better I think he’d be very popular.

by Black Francis on Sep 6, 2008 2:17 PM CDT up 0 recs

your perception

I think your post is mainly your perception of how things are.

shrinking middle class

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews+articleid_2553754.html

Even smart kids who are now entering college are having to take remedial classes because they have no liberal arts background

If a high school graduate passes TAKS (or equivalent test), gets their diploma and still needs a remedial course before taking freshman comp, then that is a problem. But I don’t think that is what you are implying.

Bush’s problem is that the backlash from thee Iraq war and a Dem controlled congress has effectively neutered him. He has done virtually nothing in his second term.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 6, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

Depends on how you define things

I view the middle class as shrinking because real incomes have not risen while consumer debt has, putting a lot of people in a perilous financial situation. The cost of everything has gone up. Everything. Home values have fallen, and that represents a very large share of the family’s wealth.

And yes that’s exactly what I’m saying. Kids are going to college unprepared because high schools are teaching to a test rather than getting them ready to continue their education.

by Black Francis on Sep 6, 2008 3:12 PM CDT up 0 recs

understand

I see what you are saying about the middle class. What I don’t understand is how falling home values hurt the home owner in the shortterm.

About remedial classes. I would guess that 1/2 of classes at your local community college are remedial/prerequisite in nature. It has been that way for years.

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 6, 2008 3:32 PM CDT up 0 recs

I'm not talking about only the short term

I’m talking about how the wealth of the middle class, if not the middle class itself, has shrunk in recent years. The home is almost always their biggest asset, and when its value plummets so does their wealth. I suppose it could hurt them in the short term, too. What if a family of three had a medical crisis, and the only way to pay the bill would be to sell their home? It’s far less liquid now, and not worth as much. There are millions of people who are one step away from financial ruin right now.

by Black Francis on Sep 6, 2008 5:59 PM CDT up 0 recs

some problems

will never be solved. There are losers in the game of life(not necessarily of their own volition).

This is definitely a nation of whiners…..

Its a shame everyone cant be rich……although our “poor” live like Kings relative to many other nations.

"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner

by red shoe ranger on Sep 6, 2008 9:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

You're missing the point entirely

Completely and totally over your head.

THE POINT:

We are the wealthiest country in the world NOT because of the number of rich people we have. Not because our poor aren’t as poor as those in Africa. It’s because of the wealth of our middle class. It’s the true engine of our economy.

by Black Francis on Sep 8, 2008 6:26 AM CDT up 0 recs

liberal arts

Liberal arts usually mean things like reading a novel or work and writing a paper on it. This is not tested by the TAKS, so the schools to teach as much, because they are judged solely on how their students pass the TAKS, not how they ready them for college.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Sep 6, 2008 4:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

Democratic Congress and Bush

As rwh so astutely pointed out on this thread, the Democrats didn’t control Congress until 2007, so he had two years of the ability to play his partisan politics during his second term (of which he did take advantage). Unfortunately, rwh didn’t actually understand the point I was making and then made a partisan attack without actually trying to think things through.

I think Bush’s problems are manifold.
1) Includes the lack of a plan to get us out of Iraq and overextension of our many armed forces.
2) His attack on civil liberties and curtailing of individual freedoms
3) His partisan politics WHILE IN THE WHITE HOUSE. You’re supposed to be doing the best for AMERICANS not REPUBLICANS when you’re President. And this despite his promises to “reach across party lines.” He’s made it blatantly clear that if you’re not with him, you’re an enemy. rwh is a perfect example.
4) The economy going into the tank (though this probably isn’t mainly his fault).
5) The handling of some criseses like Katrina, housing market.
etc.

There’s probably more, but those are some of the reasons for Bush’s unpopularity off the top of my head.

R

by Requiem on Sep 6, 2008 5:00 PM CDT up 0 recs

I disagree

Conseratives/Liberals/Repubs/Libs will always support their party/base. But if the middle is fed up with the recent administration than it’s important for McCain to move from that image (And Obama’s to continue tying McCain to it) else many people are going to believe that a vote for McCain is truly a third term for Bush.

Bush jumped all over Ann Richards back in 94 for being tied to Clinton and it succeeded, can’t see why Obama wouldn’t do the same here (Especially with Bush’s approval numbers)

by Taylor on Sep 5, 2008 4:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

Not trying to be combative here w/ multiple dissents, but I don't think this is accurate

"It may not be true anymore, but Bush and McCain are well-known to the average American as enemies. Most people know McCain only as "that guy who ran a bitter primary against Bush in 2000."

I don’t really believe that to be the case. Among the average, somewhat disinterested voter, I don’t think that fact is common knowledge at all. I wonder how many far right wingers here are aware of the Bush-Rove shennanigans pulled on Mac in 2000.

This is anecdotal, of course, but 95% of my family, 50% of my friends, and 80% of my co-workers vote Republican 100 % of the time. And I don’t exactly work with, nor am I related to, uneducated hoi polloi. From experience, I can count on one hand the ones that know any details of the South Carolina slander. 2000 is ancient history for people that only take a passing interest in this stuff.

I also see few if any reminders of how those two used to hate each other in cable or print media. You have to check the internet for reminders of that.

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 5, 2008 4:54 PM CDT up 0 recs

"Call off your dogs"

Remember McCain saying that to Bush about Rove and his swiftboaters, really disappointed me when Bush wouldn’t do so and it made me like McCain a lot more and I liked it when he kicked Graham off as his attitude reminded me too much of Bush’s cronies…

…now if McCain would get rid of Fiorina the I’d really like him

by Taylor on Sep 5, 2008 5:04 PM CDT up 0 recs

Graham

He and McCain are pretty tight and they threw him off the campaign because it was politically necessary. Next Treasury Secretary? Front runner is Phil Graham.

by Black Francis on Sep 6, 2008 2:20 PM CDT up 0 recs

Gramm as Treas. Sec.

that makes me a bit uncomfortable. He may be partly to blame for both Enron and the current banking/mortgage situation. Much more of a problem for me than his “whiner” and “mental recession” comments.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 6, 2008 2:42 PM CDT up 0 recs

Absolutely

The guy is bought and paid for. He and McCain are close, though. Hopefully if he wins he’ll have the good sense not appoint him to anything.

by Black Francis on Sep 6, 2008 2:54 PM CDT up 0 recs

you may be right.

Most people probably don’t know the details about why McCain hates Bush, but I think that McCain definitely has a reputation that is distinct from Bush’s and the Republicans. Mostly because for years the Democrats were constantly saying that McCain was the only Republican they could work with. Heck, he was almost John Kerry’s running mate – and lots of people know that.

McCain has gone right since then, but I would argue that only those paying a lot of attention are aware of that.

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 6:09 PM CDT up 0 recs

That's pretty accurate, IMO

And that’s why I don’t think this Presidential election will be a cakewalk that the Democrats seem to be wishcasting….

Of course, there ARE still 2 months left.
We’ll see.

R

by Requiem on Sep 5, 2008 6:15 PM CDT up 0 recs

there ARE still 2 months left.

:( Why can’t this be over tomorrow… I’m tired of this election

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 6:25 PM CDT up 0 recs

R

Wed, Nov 5th is election day. Right? ;)

Nolan Ryan should be the Rangers president, GM, manager and pitching coach.

by RangerMad on Sep 5, 2008 6:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

?

Not sure what you’re trying to say

by Requiem on Sep 5, 2008 6:47 PM CDT up 0 recs

lol

a republican campaign in some town or state was telling black people (i think, at least traditional demoratric voters) , “don’t forget to vote wednesday!”

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 7:08 PM CDT up 0 recs

Hmmm,

Not sure I see anything that funny.

Especially considering this:

And the current mess that we’re in.

Excerpts:

By a co-incidence state officials in Texas had been compiling a list of ex-felons who lived in Florida. There were about 8,000 of these – none of them actually happened to be ex-felons – but by another co-incidence many of them were black or poor whites. Coincidentally polls showed that 90% of black voters intended to vote for Gore and that the majority of poor whites would as well (Observer 10 Dec 2000 and Mojo Wire 8 Nov 2000).

When county officials queried the list Harris got a new, supposedly more accurate list , of 94,000 names , to add to the first. Around 15% of the people on this new list of ex-felons weren’t actually ex-felons and should have been allowed to vote , but Choicepoint point out that that means they were 85% right – so only 7,000 more people would be illegally denied the right to vote. (Observer 10 Dec 2000 and Mojo Wire 8 Nov 2000).

In many parts of Florida policemen were sent to tell black voters that polling booths were closed in some counties , and refuse them entry to polling stations. By another co-incidence poor and black areas had the least staff and most outdated polling systems in their polling stations , and the polling stations in those areas tended to open later and close earlier than in richer areas. As a result less poor and black voters – who tend to vote Democrat – could vote than in affluent and white areas. Black voters were also allegedly turned away from some polling stations(Independent 15 Dec 2000 ; Washington Post 3 Dec 2000; Guardian 10 Nov 2000; Guardian 4 Dec 2000).

So, you’re joking about essentially a tactic which helped steal an election which led to the current mess we’re in.

Not sure that’s all that funny unless you like laughing at tragedies.

R

by Requiem on Sep 5, 2008 7:52 PM CDT up 0 recs

are you talking about

the registered voter purges in ohio, new mexico, colorado and ohio as you pretty must talked about immediately above?

or are you talking about the guys telling people to vote on the wrong day?

those are 2 different things.

1 is illegal and reprehensible.

the other is just jackassery and wasn’t quite as bad.

http://www.buchanan4pres2008.org/
NIXON: NOW MORE THAN EVER

by gossamer on Sep 5, 2008 8:21 PM CDT up 0 recs

Not sure

it’s 2 different things.

IMO, it’s a slippery slope, so it might be 2 separate things, or one could lead to the other.

Either way, I don’t find the joke very funny, so I guess I don’t really see the point.

R

by Requiem on Sep 5, 2008 8:58 PM CDT up 0 recs

Happened in Ohio

And sadly, happens voter suppression happens much more often that it should.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_United_States_election_voting_controversies#cite_note-16

The term “voter suppression” is used to describe methods of discouraging or impeding people from voting. The government agency or private entity doing so believes that the would-be voters thus turned away would have been more likely to vote for an opponent. For example, Representative Dennis Kucinich described voter suppression in his state, Ohio:

Dirty tricks occurred across the state, including phony letters from Boards of Elections telling people that their registration through some Democratic activist groups were invalid and that Kerry voters were to report on Wednesday because of massive voter turnout. Phone calls to voters giving them erroneous polling information were also common.

by Taylor on Sep 6, 2008 7:16 AM CDT up 0 recs

re:"In one fell swoop, Palin has satisfied all of McCain’s critics from the right – both religious and fiscal"

Peggy Noonan begs to vehemently differ…

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 5, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

Did you read her explanation?

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 5, 2008 4:40 PM CDT up 0 recs

What else would she say?

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 6, 2008 7:29 PM CDT up 0 recs

Just asking if you'd read it.

"I know you're a bit dense but no, it doesn't. Obviously lying isn't a problem for me."

by benmor78 on Sep 6, 2008 7:37 PM CDT up 0 recs

Yes

Last week I took a pleasure trip. I drove my wife to the airport.

by Brian Thomas on Sep 6, 2008 8:57 PM CDT up 0 recs

You played the "I know people" card above

so I’ll play it here. I know many people who are lifetime Republicans who were not at all pleased by John McCain – several of which were constantly saying that they were very likely not going to vote for him. The Palin pick not only moved them to the “I will vote for McCain-Palin” group, but actually got them fired up and energized. They went from people who possibly would not have voted to possibly giving money. Big shift.

I don’t know any Republicans that were annoyed by the pick. I know plenty of Democrats who were upset about Palin, but they would have been annoyed at anyone with an® after their name, and probably annyoed with Lieberman as well.

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 6:03 PM CDT up 0 recs

Here is what Obama and McCain gained from their conventions.

McCain won back the base. The conservative leaders, such as Newt and Rush, had largely disowned him but now Newt is singing the praises of McCain.

Obama had the appearance of a large movement and used the stage to appeal to the Democratic base as well as independents. The convention kept the Hillary-ites that were on the fence in the fold.

This is the matchup I wanted since the early days of Iowa. I think it will result in the least partisan rhetoric since long before I was born.

What I find interesting about McCain is that his speech last night sounded like it was an appeal to independents, but I think it really was an appeal to Republicans that they need to be more willing to do bi-partisan work, which implies they need to stop shoving their policies down the throats of Americans. Apparently, Newt was convinced, which is good news for McCain.

The bottom line for McCain is that the Republican party is smaller than 8 years ago and the Democratic party is larger than 8 years ago. He needs every vote from the base plus a healthy margin over Obama from independents. If he can appeal to both groups, it will be an impressive feat.

Obama on the other hand has the advantage that many independents more naturally align with Democratic party planks. I think it’s still his game to lose.

Go Rangers!

by rooster on Sep 5, 2008 3:21 PM CDT 0 recs

good take

I agree that Obama has the advantage. He’s already been defined as a guy who the middle 20% can accept or even like. McCain is probably the only Republican who would be tolerable to that crowd right now.

While Obama defintely has the advantage right now, I would say that McCain is in as good of a position as he could have hoped for at this point. Obama may have policy advantages with moderates, but McCain knows how to play the “Independent/Moderate” territory as well as anyone in politics today. Obama’s political skills are an unknown – he’s never won a general election remotely this close before where the fine line between moderate and partisan is so important. He’s done a good job so far, but this is McCain’s turf. It’ll be interesting…

by JBImaknee on Sep 5, 2008 3:39 PM CDT up 0 recs

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