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Roundtable on the catching situation

Over at the DMN blog, Mike Hindman has a gathering of opinions as to what should be done this offseason and next year regarding the catching situation...

My opinion is spelled out over there, along with the opinions of many others...check it out...

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I wonder

what Nolan Ryan’s metric for catchers is. I don’t recall him being very vocal about his catchers during his career – or playing favorites or anything. Are there any historical clues from Ryan’s past that might telltale his opinions of the four?

by shroomer on Sep 8, 2008 5:13 PM CDT reply actions  

keep teagarden and max. trade laird for a ml-ready starting pitcher, no exceptions

then hold on to salty and see if he can raise his trade value then trade him for another ml-ready starting pitcher.

Start TT. have max at DH every game except when is catching to rest TT.

Taylor will really help out the defense and especially the pitching. Max will give us the right-handed power we need. Laird and Salty will give us some of the pitching we need

I give up

by Steal Home on Sep 8, 2008 5:34 PM CDT reply actions  

This has really become...

rather simple for me. Keep and start TT. Max Ram is his backup/DH. Maybe get a veteren backup if MaxRam is going to DH everyday because Board Game leaves.

Deal Laird and Salty for pitching. Easier said than done, but that would be my preference.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 8, 2008 5:38 PM CDT reply actions  

I generally agree with your assessment.

TT is the winner in my opinion. I can’t believe that two shutouts in four MLB starts is a fluke.

I’d start Max at AAA. I’m not convinced he is ready to hit the off-speed stuff. He look vulnerable at times to the breaking ball.

I’d look for a Gary Bennett/Paul LoDuca type as a back-up until Max is ready.

Laird and Salty for pitching as you state.

by T Coleman on Sep 8, 2008 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

LoDuca

I don’t know if I can handle that much grit.

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states" - Barack Obama

by LSBUser on Sep 8, 2008 7:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

agreed

laird has more value than he is thought to

I give up

by Steal Home on Sep 8, 2008 10:26 PM CDT up reply actions  

I'd prefer we keep TT and Max

But like I’ve said a couple times, I’m not worried about keeping the best catcher, I’m more worried about trading for the best pitcher. If somebody dangles a certain pitcher that grades as top of the rotation potential, and will only accept a handpicked one of the four, I’d part with any of them.

"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve

by tricer on Sep 8, 2008 8:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Not much separating the group...

Trade the two with the highest value around the league and get the best players you can out of them.

by N41D on Sep 8, 2008 8:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Im starting to think I would rather keep MAx TT and Salt for now.

Laird has to go, just to break the log jam at the mlb level. Im hesitant to trade salt right now, just because of his value is been pushed down quite a bit. Add to that the as much as I like TT, I am worried about his injury history and ability to make enough contact to stay behind the dish as a everyday C.

I would explore deals for both Salt and TT, just to gauge value, but without a significant return both stay until at least mid season.

This leaves MadMax. He would be an emergency C/DH/1B, that doesn’t necessarily have to start the season at the MLB level. Start the season in AAA, unless Bradley isn’t resigned , and let the rest of the roster shake it self out.

by laxtonto on Sep 8, 2008 8:14 PM CDT reply actions  

The problem with keeping Tea and Max

The other two have 1. middling trade value and 2. lower-than-recent-history trade value.

Delicate.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 8, 2008 9:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Laird

When do you think his value was significantly higher?

by Adam J. Morris on Sep 8, 2008 9:18 PM CDT up reply actions  

Laird

My only point is he doesn’t have much trade value.

Before the injury in KC, he’d be worth talking about trade value-wise.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 8, 2008 10:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

Disagree...

I think a decent offensive catcher with above average defense does have value.

The Rangers will be dealing Laird at his peak trade value if they do so this winter.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 9, 2008 12:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

I doubt any other teams will view Laird as anything more than an average catcher

I do agree he is at peak value right now, but I don’t think that he will get you pitching value by himself considering the value placed upon prospects these days.

by Telegraph on Sep 9, 2008 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Don't the Tigers need a C?

The Red Sox can’t be too happy with Varitek can the Yanks actually believe Molina is their future every day catcher?

It’s nice that JD stockpiled his catchers but it’s time to get on with the future and Gerald Laird should not be a part of it.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 9, 2008 9:59 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just hope

they take what they can get. I’d rather trade him for 80 cents on the dollar than leave him on the roster, clogging the catching situation.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 9, 2008 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very strange bedfellows

this morning.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 9, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

because I'm also in agreeance.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 9, 2008 10:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Sturm

is not a leadoff hitter.

I’m glad to read that so many esteemed writers also have trouble figuring out what to do with these guys. I think you just deal whoever brings back the most in return and find a way to use whoever is left.

O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.

by t ball on Sep 8, 2008 10:51 PM CDT reply actions  

Personally

1) Trade Laird. Don’t care to who. Don’t care for what. He just needs to go. I like the guy and I think he’s a solid above average big league backstop, but he’s the odd man out and his presence is keeping us from getting superior players onto the field. So, see ya, pal. Hope you bring back an intriguing arm in return.
2) Send Salty down to AAA for a full season to see if he can pull a Stella and get his groove back. Trading him now would be silly. I’d rather risk having him completely fade away into obscurity with us than deal him right now for pennies on the dollar. Having him down there gives us a nice insurance policy for the big league squad in case the guy we end up rolling with gets hurt. If he’s crushing in OKC in July he’s a valuable trade chip. If not, oh well. At least we didn’t give him away for nothing and watch him succeed elsewhere.
3) Wait and see on Tea. Trade him if there is a nice market for his services. But don’t sell just to sell with this kid. He’s legit, imo. If you get a solid offer for a nice arm or if he can be included as a key cog in a big trade for a pitcher, then pull the trigger on that shit. If not, hold on to him and use him at the big league level to spell our regular catcher so he can DH some.
4) As you might’ve guessed, I believe that Mad Max needs to be our catcher going forward. If Tea stays then Max can start 80-100 games behind the plate and DH the rest. If Tea goes then you bring in a gritty veteran with great face and Max becomes the everyday catcher with only occasional forays in the land of the designated hitter. I just don’t see how you can not go with Max going forward. The bat is a weapon and the glove is passable. He’s Jorge Posada! Part Duex and that’s a really nice piece to have, Yankee hatred aside. If he’s not our starting catcher in ’09 and going forward then we suck at making baseball decisions and should all be shot in the face or maybe the leg.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 8, 2008 11:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Love it, but

Anytime the role of DH/buC goes up in a comment, the orthodoxy seems to be nobody can do that.

So if Tea starts, and Max backs him up, Max can’t DH.

I don’t know if there’s a precedent for a DH/buC…I love the sound of it, especially with a bat like Maximiliano.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 9, 2008 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't see Wash putting 2 catchers in the lineup...

…unless he has a 3rd one on the bench.

Physician: Primum non nocere

Batter: First, make no out

by Chad Crudup on Sep 9, 2008 1:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I suppose you could

but if your C ever gets injured, you just have to bat your pitcher.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 9, 2008 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

See the version I like better is Max being the primary DH, and then have a conventional backup catcher on the bench. I guess eventually that guy could be Pina.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Sep 9, 2008 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

That wouldn't be bad

with Max as a DH/emergency 3rd catcher.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 9, 2008 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

How many times does this happen though?

Seems silly to take that precaution for something that happens once or twice a year, at most.

I think putting the absolute best lineup on the field should trump not wanting to be caught in a bind if your starter gets injured during a game.

The 40 Trumps All!!!

by thedirkatron on Sep 9, 2008 6:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Still, doesn't hurt you a ton to carry a legitimite backup catcher

and just keep Max as DH/emergency 3rd catcher, especially when you’d probably rather not have Max actually catch anyway. Backup catcher catches 40-60 or so games, and I’m not sure you really want Max catching that much. He really just isn’t any good behind the plate.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

by DJCahill on Sep 10, 2008 6:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Disagee...

with “he really isn’t any good behinf the plate.” Why is that?

In the few (ML) games I saw he looked fine at catcher. Now granted that is the ultimate in small sample size and living where I do I haven’t seen him on tv (minor league games) at all so I’m just curious as to what you have seen that makes you say that.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 10, 2008 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Obviously dump Laird

for whatever you can get. He has the least amount of cheap years left, and he is really a fairly replaceable talent, much like Barajas. Unfortunately, I don’t think you get much back in return, but I don’t think you will get overwhelmed with an offer for any of them.

"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky

"I just hope enough dumb oversexed over self-esteemed American public educated female liberals (yeah, you know the type) vote for a woman because she has a vagina, to swing some things."- Sharky.

"JD is a great GM if you ignore the giving away pitching and handing out horrible contract stuff."-Tricer

by DJCahill on Sep 9, 2008 12:12 AM CDT reply actions  

The thing about these Hindman

blogs is that if you voice a dissenting opinion in any way, he threatens to take his ball and go home.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Sep 9, 2008 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think Laird's as good as gone

I’d love to trade Salty, but I am not so optimistic that we can trade both this offseason and bring back a truly rewarding package. so I think Laird’s gone, Salty starts for us and hopefully builds his trade value up, Teagarden backs him up until Salts is traded or Tea proves he is healthy enough to take over every day, and Max is on the team as the primary DH if we don’t re sign Milton or he is healthy enough for the outfield, and that Max backs up C and 1B as well

"So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know... "

by Walter Sobchak on Sep 9, 2008 12:23 AM CDT reply actions  

If that situation happens...

OMFT is dealt, Salty starts, and TT backs him up.

I would rather start MaxRam at OKC everyday at catcher ‘til Salty/TT is traded. I don’t want to see 3 of these guys on the ML roster next year. Two maximum.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Sep 9, 2008 12:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

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