Tuesday a.m. stuff
by Adam J. Morris on Sep 9, 2008 9:03 AM CDT
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PrintSeptember, the day after an off day, there's not much out there to talk about.
The Rangers want to have a strong finish to get above .500, although Marlon Byrd says the season is still disappointing because they had a chance to get in the playoffs and didn't take advantage of it.
Over at the S-T, Drew Davison talks about the plethora of Rangers minor league teams making the playoffs. Jon Daniels says the Rangers are trying to make their minor league teams more successful, to get the players in the habit of winning.
Dr. Andrews has confirmed that Jarrod Saltalamacchia has a strained elbow, and the team is optimistic he'll be able to play some winter ball.
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Salty
Could this season have played out worse for his development? Less than 200 plate appearances…
JD probably restored some trade value in Laird, but it came at a cost. One year of Salty’s service time plus a year of development at least partially wasted.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
JD didn't restore Laird's value
Laird restored Laird’s value. And Salty can blame himself, at least partially. He didn’t exactly seize the job, though he showed some improvement lately. One wonders how things would be if both catchers had managed to stay healthy all season.
In any case, it is far from a disaster. The Rangers are still in a very strong position with more options than they had a year ago, and Daniels has not overplayed his hand. Salty is still young, though his value has dropped. But the other three guys all saw their values increase, and any of the 4 have something to offer a team looking for catching.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
You don't trade Salty
this off-season because his value could not be any lower.
The player you trade is Gerald Laird and Max Ramirez goes to OKC next year.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Max
Does anyone think it’s going to deep six Max’s future to just DH him? Obviously Milton’s probably somewhere else next year. What has Max done to be out of the running for that role?
Does he REALLY need to stay in the catcher queue? Pina gets left out of the discussion, but he held his own on the backup catcher track in AA as 20-yo. Why not just shift Max out of the catcher depth and let him fill another need?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 9, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions
Wasn't the reasoning of starting Salty in AAA
is because it gave him a chance to work on his catching every day?
Why not do the same thing with Max?
My reasoning is because I think Salty has upside….25 HR / 90 RBI .850+ OPS type of hitter …and the Rangers should explore that.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Why not do the same thing with Max?
As odd as it sounds, there are enough catchers even without him, and even if JD deals a catcher this winter.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on Sep 9, 2008 10:16 AM CDT up reply actions
I agree with that
I’d trade Laird, put TT and Salty in platoon, and either put Max in OKC catching every day or install him at DH and let him grow into it. He won’t be Bradley but I think he’s got a shot to be at least an average DH cheaply.
But the trade depends entirely on the trade partner and who they like most. If Boston wants Tea badly enough to offer the best return, than you trade him. You get the best value and move forward.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
I agree with this
The object shouldn’t be to end up with the best catcher, the object should be to get the best pitcher and let the remaining 2 of the 3 young ones get a full season of ML experience.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
Don't know about that, Tricer.
A good defensive catcher (who will help every one of your pitchers) with decent to very good hitting peripherals that you have control over for the next six years holds much more value to me than a pitching prospect devoid of a resume in The Show.
I keep TT.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
I don't know about that
I think if Boston wants TT bad enough and they are willing to part with say a Bowden or Bucholz even if we have to sweeten the deal to get him. Then turn to the Reds and find out if they are serious about Laird and start by asking about Bailey and add to it to get him while the Reds are down on him. Grienke is another story altogether.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
No to Bowden
I target Buchholz and that’s it from them. If Bowden is the best that Boston offers, keep Teagarden or find him a different home.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Why are you down on Bowden?
Just asking.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
Average fastball, average command
I also keep hearing that his ML comp is Jeff Suppan.
yep
I think it was also Keith Law who saw him and said that the great reviews and reports about him weren’t there and the scouts he talked to said that the Bowden he saw was the Bowden they saw a few times before. He’s had an amazing season in the minors which has put his stock at an all-time high which also means the Rangers shouldn’t sell high on Teagarden for someone like Bowden.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
LAIE
"The question of how we came to be is a philosophical one." - 4HIM
by inactive lsb user on Sep 9, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
Boston will want Laird before they want Teagarden.
Hey, you suck McBain.
by oc on Sep 9, 2008 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions
The Red Sox aren't trading Buchholz man.
Hey, you suck McBain.
by oc on Sep 9, 2008 1:52 PM CDT up reply actions
I realize that it would take a lot.
I was simply responding to you talking about Laird vs. Teagarden.
It will take a lot
to get Buchholz so question becomes the Rangers have enough in their farm system to get it done but would you rather have Grienke instead of Buchholz?
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
All things equal...
…I’d rather have Buchholz. (all from b-r.com)
Buchholz (major league level):
Born 8/14/84
Career WHIP = 1.601 (yow, that is high)
Career ERA+ = 82
All that is only over 98.7 IP total.
Greinke (major league level with depression year included):
Born 9/21/83
Career WHIP = 1.35
Career ERA+ = 105
638.7 IP
And some of my opinion is a little biased...
…based on what I’ve seen him do on TV vs. the Rangers. I am not blown away by Greinke at all. Certainly not as enamored as Newberg has been all summer – no offense to JN.
unrelated, but that sure was a weak move by Torii Hunter last night
shoves a guy in the back and then starts backing up until his teammates arrive.
Greatest Inventions Ever? 1. TiVO, 2. Boobs, 3. Baseball
I hope the kids at his son's school ...
mock him relentlessly today.
"So he tore it up in AA. Yippee. ...Max Ramirez be damned." - bigsteve
haha
man I hate that dude…although, his machinations ended up helping us, so I guess all is well. just hope he starts on his rapid decline soon.
What's the rumpus?
Hunters actions were bush league
I have never wished injury on a player but it would be nice to see him blow an ACL.
A bunch of midgets with no arms could pitch better than us. -iorange555
Gerald Laird was better this year
but he’s still nothing more than spare to fair. Not sure restoring whatever value Laird had was worth stunting the development of the centerpiece in the Mark Teixeira trade. Not being able to get rid of Laird during the season when several teams were in need for a catcher does not reflect well on JD.
How would people have felt if the Rangers gave Barajas the playing time over Salty that they gave Laird this year? I say that because Gerald Laird is basically Rod Barajas. Decent fill-in player but not much more than that.
Not sure what happens to Salty now. I’d like for him to become mostly a DH (like having a switch-hitting DH behind Josh) that occasionally fills in for Teagarden.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
Not a reflection on JD
Daniels didn’t cause the injuries to Laird and Salty. You can say they should have handled Salty differently, but it’s kind of hard to trade Laird when he’s just come off the DL. Would you rather he had traded him for a poor return?
And after the trade deadline, Laird continued to play pretty well. A catcher with a good reputation for defense and an OPS of .750 is not “spare to fair”. As long as you’ve followed baseball you should know better than that. 14 AL catchers have more than 300 PAs. Laird’s OPS ranks 4th, just a few points behind Navarro.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
+1
I dont think Laird is the greatest catcher ever but he sure is better than anything we have had since Pudge left. I think your only catcher that is going to amount to anything is TT, and that is going to depend on how well he learns how to hit in the bigs. Love his defense and he has shown at sperts that he can hit. I dont think Salty will every be our backstop. Might have a chance at being an above average switch hitting DH. Not too bad of an option.
What is fair value for just Laird
I know I’ve seen a lot of trade proposals for Laird + prospect or a package of guys like Laird, Mayberry, Schlact, Cruz, etc. I’m wondering though what a good return for just Laird would be this offseason. It looks like that may just be the best thing. Maybe get a good young RP (under control for around 4 years at least) and a couple of lower level prospects who the scouts believe in. For the RP, I’m thinking a pitcher like Arredondo from LAA or Buchholz from Colorado so not just a run of the mill guy.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Not sure
LAA would trade Arredondo as he’s pencilled in as their closer if they don’t re-sign F-Rod. Same deal with Buchholz. I think COL is looking at Buchholz to be their closer over Corpas when Fuentes leaves as a FA (which would be good because we could then try to sign Fuentes to be the 2nd-lefty in the pen/late-inning guy/backup closer).
"I'm a dirty mouth with feet" - Tori Amos
another name
Jared Burton of the Reds.
He was injured the 2nd half of this year, but when he was pitching, he was pretty awesome.
Would CIN deal him though?
Cordero is shaky (has walked way too many people) as usual, so CIN might want to keep Burton around as an alternative.
"I'm a dirty mouth with feet" - Tori Amos
You changed your picture!
"The question of how we came to be is a philosophical one." - 4HIM
by inactive lsb user on Sep 9, 2008 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions
i would need something else in addition to Burton
perhaps Neftali Soto. I really just want to hoard all Neftali’s who enter pro ball.
Actually, what about Daryl Thompson?
I'm not listing those guys as 2 trade targets
I don’t think there is that good of a match for them to want Laird. Those are just 2 type of RP that I think would be fair value for Laird. Talented, positive experience in the Majors, and FA being a distant thought. Outside of SP, there really isn’t any other need for this team. And to get a SP for Laird, you are going to have to add in a young pitching prospect at least.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
what's his service time at?
It looks like he would only be here for 3 years.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
Don't get greedy with OMFT
his value fluctuates too quickly to blow a deal this offseason.
"The question of how we came to be is a philosophical one." - 4HIM
by inactive lsb user on Sep 9, 2008 7:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Better than Laird
with 2 years. Don’t expect massive returns for Laird. Most likely we could have worked a better deal last offseason than this, but it sounds like JD was holding out for a big score.
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
Well looky there....
another daily quote from the mouthy spare ass player.
I only want to hear quotes from players that mean something to this team, not players with big mouths and average productivity like Marlon Byrd.
JD, pick up the damn phone and get this guy out of here……pretty please.
i like baseball too
looky there
so bspate, Byrd has a .290 batting avg for the season and in the last 30 days his avg is 326 according to the Rangers website. I think you have misplaced your anger. Byrd is hardly a spare. Trade bait maybe but not a spare.
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
looky there part 2
“Marlon Byrd added three hits and three RBIs” from the Texas Rangers web site about last nights game in Seattle.
So bspate, that is a spares line I guess? Plus he was hit by a pitch. What else does he need to do to not be a spare in your eyes?
¡yo soy Horsedooty!
I soloed in the Mile High Club!
Seriously, those mouthy spare asses are really annoying
the silent ones are much more preferable
Phew
at least Salty doesn’t completely disappear for a year or two as an asset as a result of TJ surgery.
Offense doesn't doubt me, but my first and primemost thing is defense and punt return and kickoff return
Last offseason?
His value was pretty low then.
O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!
Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen,
und freudenvollere.
I'm not sure it actually raised much.
do to the lost year of control. At the end of the day, I’m not sure you’ll get much more this offseason than you could’ve last year.
Hopefully I’m very wrong on that, and we get Lincecum in return :)
"Oh well, McCain is pretty communist anyway,... we can be 70% communist with McCain,"-Sharky
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