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New Year's Day Stuff

Well, a move, finally.  The Rangers have signed Derrick Turnbow to a minor league deal. Yippee.

Turnbow is kind of another Jamey Wright, a guy who throws hard, gets ground balls, and has a hard time sustaining success.  He had a great ERA for the Brewers a few years back, although the peripherals didn't support it, and then followed it up with two high ERA seasons where his peripherals weren't as bad as his ERA would suggest.

If he's healthy, he could be an okay middle relief option, I guess, although the Rangers are apparently looking at him as a potential closer, for whatever reason.

I'm guessing that Turnbow will be competing with Willie Eyre for a spot in the Ranger bullpen to start the season. 

T.R. Sullivan, in his article I linked above, suggested that this is a "low-cost, high-reward" move, but I don't think Turnbow has ever been good enough to suggest that the potential reward would be all that high. 

Sullivan says the Rangers almost got something done with Joe Nelson before he signed with the Rays, and that they've been talking to Chad Cordero, Guillermo Mota and Jason Isringhausen, although the addition of Turnbow would seem to make the addition of one of those two less likely.  Among veteran lefties, Sullivan says the Rangers have been looking at Brian Shouse, Dennys Reyes, Will Ohman, and Joe Biemel.

I know the inevitable response from some folks to bringing in a Turnbow or a Mota (or any other guy like this) is, "Why are we doing this?  Why don't we give the kids a chance instead?"

But the thing is...what "kids" would get squeezed out of the bullpen by one of these guys?  Frankie Francisco, C.J. Wilson, and Joaquin Benoit are all pretty much locks to be in the bullpen if they are healthy (and none of them are all that young).  Josh Rupe is likely to be in there.  Dustin Nippert probably has the inside track on a long relief job.

That's five slots.  Who else is there who should be getting a look in the pen?  With Wes Littleton and Kam Loe gone (and the Rangers' reluctance to use either of those guys much last season showed how little regard they had for them), what other young relievers really need to be out there in the major league pen?

Warner Madrigal?  He's only been a pitcher for two years, and probably shouldn't have been up in 2008.  Let him spend a year in the minors.

Guillermo Moscoso?  Maybe, but the Rangers supposedly want to look at him as a starter.

Sullivan also has an article previewing what the Rangers need in 2009, and including a rundown of what the likely lineup and rotation is at this point.

 

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Happy New Years everyone

So Sulllivan’s column is no different then any Ranger column every other day or what we ALL as LSB bloggers think. Lets go get some REAL Rangers news going

My opinions 1) I wish the Rangers would cut strings with Hank Blalock. Trade him which I think bye the deadline they will. I think the Rangers are gonna attempt to allow him to increase his trade value. But for 6 mill hes a deal 2) Jon Boy Daniels will trade SALTY to Boston for Bucholz be patient be patient JD 3) Would it really hurt for the Rangers to sign Ben Sheets NOW not after trading someone away ???? Keep Milwood & Padilla you know one of them will be out for a significant portion of the seaon. Also you know sorry a$$ Brandon McCarthy wont pitch more then 5 games so whats the problem with Sheets, Millwood, & Padilla then lets the young-ins fight it out for the 4th & 5th spots. Whats the worse that could happen it FAILS well we could move whoever we need at the deadline

RANDOM QUESTION ?? Would anyone trade Josh Hamilton for a sustained front line starter (NOT A SCRUB LIKE GRIENKE) ?? IF the Giants came to JD and said Hamilton for Lincecum straight up do you NOT do that. I’ve just been thinking if Smoak and Davis are gonna be the bats of the future lets move Josh for a pitcher. It would at least save us having to give Josh a HUGE contract. Just thinking outside the box here.

by camsdad on Jan 1, 2009 10:18 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

giants aren't trading lincecum

but if a lincecum for hamilton deal came up. i don’t care which ranger it is, you do it.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 1, 2009 10:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

well YEHHHHHH + 1

"You are a rude thoughtless little pig"

Alec Baldwin

by BigGuns on Jan 1, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

also

we aren’t going to sign sheets or get buchholz. those are the pipe dreams that drive ranger fans crazy during each offseason

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 1, 2009 10:29 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

two things

This really doesn’t mean a guy like Madrigal or moscoso won’t get a shot and stick at some point this year. I mean our pen isn’t gonna stay intact because we have no starting pitching. Guys will get worn out in the pen or injured. They will get their shot.

Hammy for Lincecum? I would. But that means that Borbon has to be ready. No need to create a hole to fill a hole unless the depth is there.

The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ

by NYTXFAN on Jan 1, 2009 10:30 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you could do

a Murphy/Byrd center platoon, which was the plan before we traded for Hamilton. Seems the consensus is that Hamilton’s days in center are already numbered anyway.

Mass X Acceleration = Force

by SteveP on Jan 1, 2009 10:34 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Whatever

I’d do Hamilton for Lincecum if I had to start Joaquin Arias in left.

Go Strangers.

by hightowersmith on Jan 2, 2009 8:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Sigh...

1) Salty will not bring back Buchholz.
2) If you sign Sheets you deal Millwood or Padilla for whoever brings back the most.
3) Greinke is far from a scrub.
4) The Giants aren’t trading Lincecum for anyone, nor should they.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 1, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Your assessment of Greinke is terribly short-sighted.

It's a crazy messed-up world... It's a doggy-dogg world...

by oc on Jan 1, 2009 11:41 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Meet the New Year

Same as the old year (as far as the Rangers are concerned – I’m not complaining – just seemed appropriate).

God I’m getting old. Had a couple drinks after work, home by 7:00, cooked dinner and asleep by 9:30. On the other hand, I’m in tip-top shape to drink some beers and watch football.

Nothing pithy here. Please move long.

by WyoRanger on Jan 1, 2009 10:27 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

sounds like my night

i crashed out when the chick fil-a bowl ended.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 1, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

new year....same rangers

We continue to just throw darts at dartboard blindfolded in hopes of hitting a bullseye.

The problem with signing guys like Wright and Turnbow are that they might suprise you for a little while but they will always eventually revert back to their below-average suckness.

It kinda like watching all of your friends buy Lexus, BMW, Mercedes….and then you buy a Kia and upgrade everything. People might mention that its nice, but its still a Kia…and end the end who will have all the hot women (or division title)….the people with the luxury cars.

by death of the cool on Jan 1, 2009 10:43 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

yes

but in the words of any gearhead – fast is fast. we don’t have the budget to pay for the luxury brand names.

Mass X Acceleration = Force

by SteveP on Jan 1, 2009 10:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+ 1

"You are a rude thoughtless little pig"

Alec Baldwin

by BigGuns on Jan 1, 2009 3:30 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

dude, you forgot the most important thing

mlb network goes live in 6 hours and 10 minutes!!!! WOOOOOOOOT!!

by Longhorn on Jan 1, 2009 10:49 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

oh my

it’s already infinitely better than ESPN, and all they’re showing right now is historical plays.

beautiful.

by Longhorn on Jan 1, 2009 10:52 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

Looks like Time Warner is carrying it- channel 198 on my cable.

"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky

by RCCook on Jan 1, 2009 11:01 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

mlb network

i’ve got the sd feed still waiting on the hd feed though.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 1, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I do as well

This looks awesome. I really hope this hurts ESPN’s viewership. I didnt realize they were going to have live look-ins. Great! Al leiter and Harold Reynolds look like they are going to provide some excellent insight.

by Michael Cave on Jan 1, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I love it already...

this is going to be great. It has to hurt ESPN. Fans of anyone other than the Yanks and BoSox will probably be getting their baseball highlights from this channel now.

It’s going to be nice to see Harold Reynolds on TV again too. That guy was the only reason I watched BBTN for a long time.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 1, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

And we gotta love some Victor Rojas

looking forward to this channel. 5 hours and counting!

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 1, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

reynolds

i was a fan of his on bbtn, only one who didnt annoy the hell out of me.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 1, 2009 12:49 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

same

i read online that it would be on channel 586 HD, but I guess that wont be for a whlile since thats currently airing womens college basketball.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Jan 1, 2009 1:39 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

586

doesnt even show up in my channel guide. when you tune to 586 it takes you to the next channel down 585 with is the big 10 channel

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 1, 2009 1:41 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

must have been what I saw

and didnt notice it went to 585 when i put 586 in manually.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Jan 1, 2009 3:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

“Warner Madrigal? He’s only been a pitcher for two years, and probably shouldn’t have been up in 2008. Let him spend a year in the minors.”

Why? He showed that he can pitch effectively in the majors. I would take Madrigal over Nippert.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 1, 2009 11:16 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Madrigal

He had a 4.75 ERA pitching out of the pen last year. He’s still very raw. Let him stay in the minors.

Nippert is out of options, unlike Madrigal, so if you don’t keep Nippert on the 25 man roster, you’ll lose him.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 1, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

no loss

You keep Madrigal over Nippert because Madrigal is a better pitcher. Losing Nippert would not be much of a loss.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 1, 2009 11:36 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

But is there a pressing reason...

…to have Madrigal in the majors right now? Or would he be better served working on his command in AAA?

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 1, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would rather him

learn how to pitch in the MLs this year and not in 2010 when we seriously expect to compete for the division title. I also think it is probably a moot point since they have different bullpen roles.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 1, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

So you've got a guy...

…who is still learning how to pitch, period…

And you want him pitching in the majors, rather than the minors?

I just don’t see the point. Might as well start the season with Feliz and Holland in the rotation, as well.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 1, 2009 11:47 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

weak argument

Feliz and Holland have yet to pitch above AA ball and they are SPs. Madrigal has shown that he can pitch in the MLs. Do you think Harrison should spend sometime in AAA? And, you for one, know that you can’t judge a RP by era alone. Like I said, it is probably a moot point since Madrigal and Nippert have different bullpen roles.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 1, 2009 12:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think Madrigal is major league ready?

I have my doubts. I think he needs more time in the minors. If he goes down there and does what he needs to do, there will be room in the majors for him.

I just don’t see that adding Turnbow — who I’m not a big fan of — is some sort of problem because it makes it more likely that Warner Madrigal will start the season in AAA. Warner Madrigal needs to start the season in AAA, I suspect. He probably shouldn’t have been up last year. He showed some flashes, but he didn’t look like a good major league pitcher to me.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 1, 2009 12:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

With this. I only differ in that I believe he will pitch very well in AAA, and will not need to spend the entire year there. But he should definitely start there.

by brettgardner on Jan 1, 2009 12:19 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

He may well do that

And if that happens, then he’ll be up. It isn’t like, in the past couple of years, our bullpen has been so jam-packed with great relievers that there’s been no room for someone in the minors.

If anything, the problem has been that the bullpen has had issues such that guys have been put out there who probably shouldn’t have been there (Luis Mendoza, Warner Madrigal, Doug Mathis).

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 1, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You'll get

No argument from me on that.

Let him force his way in, of course. I just think he’s talented enough to do it relatively quickly.

by brettgardner on Jan 1, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This is the other part of it to me

Take a look at that bullpen lineup and tell me that it isn’t going to change pretty quickly. Madrigal will get plenty of chances if he’s up to it.

by Brett Perryman on Jan 1, 2009 3:38 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

bullpen battles

I agree with you on these guys being locks: CJ, FX2, Benoit, Rupe. JD may sign a lefty to battle Gabbard for the LOOGY slot.

That leaves 2 spots left to fill. Nippert, Eyre and Feldman (if Hurley beats him out for a rotation spot) fight for the longman spot. That leaves one spot for a middle reliever.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 1, 2009 12:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Feldman

He’s on the 25 man roster if he isn’t hurt or traded. He’ll be in the rotation, most likely.

Eyre is probably that middle reliever you are talking about…either him or Turnbow or Guillermo Mota or someone like that.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 1, 2009 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

madrigal

the problem with a guy learning to pitch in the majors is it can shake his confidence. he should have never been put in the position he was in that game at yankee stadium last season.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 1, 2009 12:53 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Why not?

’Twould seem like they knew the guy and knew he was mentally tough enough to stand up to early struggles.

———————-—-——————-——-————-—-—-——-—-—-—-
   1st 5 games 7 ip’s 9.00 era 2:5 k/bb
   Next 26 games 29 ip’s 3.72 era 20:9 k/bb

I know it’s always dangerous to cherry pick and throw out certain stats, but he was pretty damn good after he got his feet under him.

by thedirkatron on Jan 2, 2009 1:21 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Se discussion further down.

also gave up 4 home runs. I’m not saying he isn’t good at all just that fine tuning some in AAA wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world especially if it means being able to keep someone out of options.

He shouldnt have been brought up when he was and thankfully it didn’t seem to shake him too much once he got over that yankee outing.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 2, 2009 6:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Disagree...

Nippert showed he can be effective. He deserves a shot as the long man and can step into the rotation if there is an injury. You don’t just let him go.

"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates

by slc ranger on Jan 1, 2009 11:38 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

"Nippert showed he can be effective."

You have a low threshold for proving effectiveness.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=nippedu01&t=p&year=2008

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 1, 2009 11:49 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/

by Goyogringo on Jan 1, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

nippert

his numbers werent good but towards the end of the year he started looking like a possible rotation candidate / long relief.
he’s worth keeping, you wouldnt want him turning into this years galaraga would you??

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 1, 2009 12:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

towards the end of the year

Can you go to the link I provided above and tell which stretch of games you are talking about?

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 1, 2009 12:57 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i saw your link

im telling you what my eyes saw.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 1, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

madrigal

http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=madriwa01&t=p&year=2008

i don’t see anything compelling enough there to tell me time in aaa wouldnt hurt

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 1, 2009 1:01 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

you didn't look very hard

So these 2nd half numbers are not compelling?

29 ip 3.72 era 2.8 bb/9 6.2 k/9 1.24 whip

Also, Madrigal gave up a run in only 1/3 of his relief appearances. Rupe – 54, Nippert – 71. Granted, the three of them had different roles, but, I think you are underestimating Madrigal.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 1, 2009 1:43 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Second half

20 Ks and 9 walks in 29 innings, with 4 homers allowed. That isn’t real good.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 1, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

A good ERA...

…with poor peripherals isn’t a good indicator of future success.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 1, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

and i

don’t think 9 BB in 29 innings is bad… it was a good rookie barrel of coffee… i expect Madrigal to have an ERA below 3.9 this year in the majors.

Bobby Jindal '12

by dstar442005 on Jan 2, 2009 12:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

9 walks in 29 innings is troubling to you?

for a rookie reliever who just started pitching, it seems pretty solid. it’s better than what krod puts up. and i wouldnt put too much trust in HR rates for such a small sample size.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 1, 2009 5:11 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

If you are going to say, he pitched well in the 2nd half, you can’t then dismiss the HR rate because of sample size.

The 9 walks in 29 innings is troubling when you are only striking out 6 per 9. For a reliever, that isn’t a great rate, particularly given the rate of homers.

You can’t just say, look at what Madrigal did well in the 2nd half, this warrants him being in the bullpen from Opening Day and not considering Turnbow or Eyre or whomever else, but then dismiss the negatives from that period because of sample size.

If you are going to say that there are sample size issues with the HR rate, you have to say the same thing about the solid (in your words) walk rate.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 1, 2009 5:25 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

i think there is a little bit of a difference

in HR rate and the other stats. because it is a rarer event, it will tend to be skewed more by small sample sizes than the more common BBs and Ks. For example if he had given up one walk-off grand slam in his 29 innings you would surely put less confidence in his WOGS/9 rate than in his walk and K rates (even if you put minimal confidence in them). But youre right, we surely didnt get a complete picture of MadDog at the ML level last year.

There is a temptation to want to remove that awful yankees outing and look at everything else. or just to look at the second half. theres definitely something to be said for the progress he made and what he showed down the stretch.

Anyway i originally kinda jumped in there without really checking out the genesis of the discussion. I dont take the stance that Madrigal ought to be a lock for the ’pen, but i do think he showed some good stuff last year and will merit serious consideration, with his youth and upside giving him a bit of an edge.

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 1, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

also

pitched in non-save situations in about 2/3 of his appearances…

http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/

by Goyogringo on Jan 1, 2009 2:15 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Nippert didn't

pitch in many high stress situations either.

Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year

by RangerMad on Jan 1, 2009 3:27 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

right

but I’m no nippert advocate…

http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/

by Goyogringo on Jan 1, 2009 3:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Isn't it obvious?

Look at his last 5 appearances. Still far too many walks, and too much contact, but he did improve from his earlier shit-games.

by brettgardner on Jan 1, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

If Nippert is on the staff for the entire 2009 season

the chances of this thing giving up more than 950 runs again are greatly enhanced.

Big arm, capable of decent stretches but does not throw enough strikes to be effective.

"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."

by Josey Wales on Jan 2, 2009 2:51 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I would also like to see Mad spend some time in AAA next year

His command and his SO rate and his slider need some work but we’ll have to sign another vet to fill his role, and Turnbow shouldn’t be that guy, and Nippert is a long man who fills a different role. So maybe signing a Chad Cordero type would be in order…

http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/

by Goyogringo on Jan 1, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

madrigal

i wouldnt say he did great last year or anything, he still has some work to do. which isnt bad considering he hasnt even been a pitcher long.

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 1, 2009 11:19 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Spent last night at the Stars game and Big D NYE

Huge crowd at both, but I spotted two girls losing their lunch (dinner?) at a whopping 10:25pm last night. Go big or go home, I suppose.

"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch

by ghtd36 on Jan 1, 2009 12:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

nice

http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/

by Goyogringo on Jan 1, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Saw the Toadies at Ridglea Theater last night

great effin show!

"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan

by Dirk Diggler on Jan 1, 2009 1:06 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Toadies, FTW!

Very nice choice. Love me some underrated DFW rock.

"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch

by ghtd36 on Jan 1, 2009 4:17 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Couple of random Turnbow things

I included some video of a June 2006 appearance from Turnbow (shortly before he went belly-up), and BtBS’s Harry Pavlidis broke down Turnbow’s Pitch f/x data a little while back.

by Joey Matschulat on Jan 1, 2009 4:52 PM CST reply actions   1 recs

nice finds

http://minormoosings.blogspot.com/

by Goyogringo on Jan 1, 2009 6:07 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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