Sunday a.m. stuff

$12M worth of heart...

for what will be .265/.295/.405 in a year or two.

LOL Sorry the Sooners will score more that 14. - boomer1

by venturafearsnolan on Jan 11, 2009 11:01 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

MY is owed 16M / year

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it came out that a lot of it has already been payed in bonuses and the like...

and that the current actual number remaining is closer to 12.

LOL Sorry the Sooners will score more that 14. - boomer1

by venturafearsnolan on Jan 11, 2009 11:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

13M / and 3M / in deferred money

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

Hes already been paid a substantial amount of that contract. Hes owed 60 mil over the next 5 years

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 11, 2009 11:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

nope he's owed 80M from 09 - 13

link

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 11:12 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think this is correct

Although it says $15mm is deferred

by TexasTiger on Jan 11, 2009 11:13 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Someone with better search skills than me

and more time maybe can look it up but there was an article linked on here not too long ago that stated that Young had been paid bonuses as part of his deal in the amount of roughly 20 million since his extension was signed therefore making him owed 60 million over the next 5 years. I know what Cots says but I think that is wrong

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 11, 2009 11:22 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i seem to remember that too

funny though, while i was trying to corroborate it, i found an old poll here taken right after the MY extension.

Only 16% thought it was a bad or horrible deal. Everyone else agreed it was at least an okay contract that wouldn’t hamper us too much. Eesh!

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 11, 2009 11:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

meant to include the link

http://www.lonestarball.com/poll/1172773093_KEDvsBPP

by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 11, 2009 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Link to the $60m figure.

Here is a link to a blog entry from the Winter Meetings (1:01 p.m. entry) that says Young is owed $60m over the next five years with some of that being deferred and that over the last two years he has received bonuses against the original $80m extension.

by Athos on Jan 11, 2009 1:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And another.

Citing Rosenthal.

by Athos on Jan 11, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

if that is true then

that is 25% less than I thought. but I would rather see something more official than Rosenthal blogging one paragraph about it. Is there any other source than this?

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 2:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not that I've found.

Though I don’t have any reason to think Rosenthal just made it up.

by Athos on Jan 11, 2009 2:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Heyman wrote it was $62M, which jives with the "approximately $60 million" from Rosenthal

Baseball Time in Arlington

by Joey Matschulat on Jan 11, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Young

It’s still $16 million a year for the five years covered by the extension.

The fact that he’s already been paid about $20 million of it doesn’t change the fact that his total compensation for those years will be $16 million/year.

That’s a lot of heart and leadership….

by Darrell McKown on Jan 11, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, like a lot of team faves, he got rewarded substantially ...

based upon past performance rather than future projections. Still, his contract isn’t nearly the albatross going forward given that a quarter of it has already been paid and another few million per year is deferred.

by Athos on Jan 11, 2009 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well it does kind of change things up

since his last contract was so small. So unless you really have some sort of reason to look only at the contract instead of yearly salaries, he pretty much just hasn’t been a bargain for the Rangers these past 2 years while still not exactly being overpaid relative to the league.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Think of it this way

He essentially signed a 7 year 87 million dollar deal in March of 07. That works out to just over 12 mil per year.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 11, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No

That is absolutely wrong. He signed a 5 year, $80 million contract.

What he was already committed to play for isn’t relevant. The Rangers had no obligation to increase his pay for 2007 or 2008.

by Darrell McKown on Jan 11, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So its irrelevant

that he was getting paid a good chunk of that 5 year contract in the 2 years before the deal starts?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 4:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

He is costing the Rangers $80 million for 5 years of service.

by Darrell McKown on Jan 11, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

its not irrelevant

if you might like to move the contract; it makes it almost palatable at 12mil/per that a big market team might bite

Building the Rangers and Rays

by Goyogringo on Jan 11, 2009 5:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not just moving the contract

but in considering how much money this team has to spend. Young making 16 million vs 12.4 (if Heyman is right) is a pretty significant difference. And its also directed at the crowd that talk about how much the contract is preventing this team from making moves in FA.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do so many people...

…want to conflate the two contracts in an attempt to try to justify the bad contract the Rangers gave Young?

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 11, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Conflate

That’s a new one for me.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 11, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes but...

If you are going to overpay a player, the Rangers did a pretty good job by keeping the annual salary to a not-so-terrible level with those early bonus payments. I am not trying to defend the contract, in fact I never really liked it to begin with, but the contract is not as horrendous as it first seems.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Jan 11, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So...

they did a good job paying too much money by paying some of it early?

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 11, 2009 9:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No

Once MY and the Rangers signed that deal, there is no amount of pissing and moaning that could take place on this blog that would change this fact. Like it or not, the Rangers are a cost conscious team. Moreover, MY will get his money at a time when the Rangers are hopefully competing. For a team with playoff aspirations, marginal wins become more valuable, thus the Rangers need to spend more in free agency if they want to become even more competitive. Young’s contract will put a damper on this. However, Hicks brought down the annual salary of Young’s deal by bonus payments made when the team was still in rebuilding mode. I’d much rather Hicks do this than defer payments to a time when the Rangers could hopefully be vying for a playoff spot (very optimistic, I know). Perhaps my original wording of “pretty good job” was a poor choice.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Jan 12, 2009 8:36 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do some people ...

feel the necessity to pull out their thesaurus in an attempt to sound learned? Next thing you know you’ll be dusting off your Bartlett’s Familiar Quotations so you can quote Shakespeare.

: )

by Athos on Jan 11, 2009 7:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

do you think 5 years and 60MM

is a bad contract going forward for the Rangers?

Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012

by Longhorn on Jan 11, 2009 7:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

biased towards the longest tenured every day starter on their franchise

some unthinkable atrocity like that.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Jan 11, 2009 9:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take that bet.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 11, 2009 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

$$

If the Red Sox rarely worry about money, don’t you think that Teixeira would be their starting 1B next season? So I guess they are worried about payroll for the upcoming season, so a Young for Lowrie swap still does not make any sense.

I heard Valentine talk on MLB Home Plate last weekend, and the host asked him about coming back to MLB. Valentine said it would not be proper to talk about future jobs while currently under contract with another team. So people can start rumors all they want, but Valentine will finish his current job before doing anything else baseball related.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Jan 11, 2009 11:11 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Valentine

Wasn’t he accused of mangling young arms while he was here last time?

gulp

by shroomer on Jan 11, 2009 11:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep

However, Nolan is running things now, so I assume a manager who works young arms to death wouldn’t be viewed as a bad thing.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 11, 2009 11:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do you hate Nolan!!??

The 40 Trumps All!!!

"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demoltion Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.

by thedirkatron on Jan 11, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Adam hates everyone in the Rangers organization....

He only has this website because he feels sorry for Rangers fans and wanted a place where we can console each other…… and also to belittle our opinions and show how much he knows about baseball.

Damn you, Adam!!

;-) ;-) ;-)

t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"

by bspate on Jan 11, 2009 1:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that's not fair.

Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012

by Longhorn on Jan 11, 2009 11:32 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And people think JD has set this franchise back

imagine how far back we’ll be should Felix/Holland/Main/Beaven go the route of Prior/Wood, didn’t Hart want to bring up DVD back in 04 to help in the playoff run?

"Losers assemble in little groups and bitch about the coaches and the system and other players in other little groups. Winners assemble as a team."
- Bill Parcells

by Taylor on Jan 11, 2009 11:37 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah.

Maybe House can get them all throwing footballs again so we can watch each of them tear rotator cuffs on a freakishly regular basis. That would be great.

by Athos on Jan 11, 2009 1:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

they all get free how-to videos and books

with an autograph even

Building the Rangers and Rays

by Goyogringo on Jan 11, 2009 1:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

this valentine/house talk is nonsense

just like the Andrew Cashner hysteria.

So, Ryan is going to fire his guy in Maddux to get his guy in House?

Not sure where Rogers is getting his info, but that’s some weak logic.

Man, those Chicago columnists, Levine, Rogers, Mariotti, they sure know how to drum up stuff…

Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012

by Longhorn on Jan 11, 2009 11:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's the first thing I thought

The team just hired Maddux and I’m guessing Nolan was on board with that move. So why would he go and bring someone else in less than a year after hiring maddux.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 12:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Jim Reeves really whines for his mancrush

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 11:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sheets

x

9. Ben Sheets, free agent pitcher: We’re hearing more and more that a team like the Braves or Rangers could pony up a couple of years on a contract that would land the oft-injured righthander. At this stage of free agency, he seems like big-time quality for a price that has surely come down. “I think as the weeks go on, more and more teams are going to take a good, hard look at him,” said a National League manager. “Given his history, he’s just not going to get a big deal, and the realization might be sinking in that he and his agents know it.”

Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012

by Longhorn on Jan 11, 2009 11:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

i don't like this waiting

It’s one thing to wait so that sheets and agent can see the market isn’t that great to try to lower sheets’ price.

However, waiting until everybody is off the board just means that you are allowing for the possibility that a bunch of teams who weren’t interested in Sheets could come calling after having struck out on other players.

The Rangers should end this (if they can) by upping their offer by a couple million or adding some incentives – making some sort of offer that will be perceived generous compared to previous talks but also signal that the Rangers won’t be waiting around for the answer either.

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Jan 11, 2009 12:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sure

the agent feels that it may be better to wait until other teams are on board for competition…

by BuckyB on Jan 11, 2009 12:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.....

I think the Rangers could make up those couple of extra million from the revenue they would make from the butts in the seats from actually signing a pitcher for once. If the Rangers would actually make a fucking splash in free agency, then the fans, teammates, and local media would respond.

As of now, the Rangers are moving farther and farther away from being relevant in this town…….and it makes me sad.

The media and local sports fans talk about the other teams because they do something…..even if it doesn’t equate to winning or have positive effects….

Cowboys – get Roy Williams, Pacman, Zach Thomas
Stars – get Brad Richards, Avery
Mavericks – get Jason Kidd
Rangers – NOTHING!! (unless you count a week of talk about Hamilton’s Home Run Derby efforts)

Apathy among fans will slowly kill the Rangers not risky free agent signings!!

t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"

by bspate on Jan 11, 2009 1:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Butts in seats from a big signing.

Worked out real well with Millwood didn’t it?

by Athos on Jan 11, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Millwood isn't the same quality of pitcher that Sheets is

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know if you can say that

At the time Millwood came here he was thought as a very good pitcher. He wasn’t the superstar that a Pedro Martinez is or anything but he was coming off a phenominal season where he led the AL in ERA with a sub 3 ERA and was far more durable than Sheets is. 3 of the 4 previous years prior to coming to Texas he had pitched at least 190 innings and had averaged over 192 innings per year over that 4 year span.

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 11, 2009 2:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

winning makes you relevant.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Jan 11, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd Rather

Wait until we start winning without the horrible side effects of making a bad signing. A bad signing will set us back even more with the fans. By “fans” I mean people who only come out when the team is winning. I’d rather wait for Feliz, Holland, etc. to come up and build a marketing philosophy around the guys that are coming up and will be here for six years.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 1:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

so would you call sheets

a bad signing if it is a bargain contract in this particular market?

Building the Rangers and Rays

by Goyogringo on Jan 11, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Sheets is an impact signing from a marketing perspective.

I want everyone to ask all their friends that haven’t seen the Rangers since 2000 who Ben Sheets is. They won’t have a clue. He likely won’t bring in the extra money that we’ll have to spend for him. People might generally be more excited, but that’s not the same as going out there and building a sustainable winner. If we build a marketing campaign around someone like Sheets, and he averages 22 starts (which is 1 more than his 2005-2007 average) for each year of the contract, does that help us put butts in the seats? That’s missing 2 months. I just don’t see how signing Ben Sheets is a really smart move from that perspective. Yes, it will help us in 2009. But what if everyone does indeed take a positive step forward for 2010? I want to build my team around guys that will be here well into the next decade, not just into 2010.

And it does still depend on the price. We don’t know for sure what Sheets is going to fetch, as more teams might jump into the game for him as ST gets closer.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 1:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

people who haven't seen the Rangers is the last 9 years

aren’t going to know many great players you can sign.

And Sheets can be a bargain, why not sign an ace? You don’t build a sustained winner only with youth. too many question marks there

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 2:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe hes purely referring to it from a marketing standpoint

A comment was made above that you could recoup the extra couple million dollars because Sheets would bring extra fans to the stadium. I don’t believe that is true. He isn’t the type of player who brings fans to games that otherwise wouldn’t come. He may bring some but its not like we are going to go from 18,000 on a normal Wednesday night to 30,000.

I am for signing him but the people who think he will pay for himself by bringing in fans need to rethink that position

Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.

by bigsteve on Jan 11, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

That is what I meant.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 2:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

ur not gonna make revenue dollars until you win

i do think a guy like sheets can help you get some wins, but I know he’ll be hurt as well and that would be frustrating to go through.

Yet, what pitcher have we had in recent history that has not been hurt?

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yet, what pitcher have we had in recent history that has not been hurt?

Exactly. Why take your priciest chance on a guy with a lengthy history. Try the guys coming up who have younger arms and a new pitching coach.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 2:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We're not building just with youth.

Our lineup is going to be a good number of guys that aren’t considered just youth. A rotation out of youth alone is going to have bumps of course. But if you’re committed to the plan, you only sign guys you’re sure will make that impact to push the team over the top. Sheets is not that kind of guy. He’s a great pitcher. But his health is a question. If he came here and missed two months every year, everyone would be all over that signing as horrible. And that’s a likely outcome. In addition, if he comes here and sucks, then the whole theory that he will attract other pitchers is moot, because then we would get credit for ruining an ace. There’s too much risk there to consider it a great signing from the get-go.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 2:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

i unerstand your point

although, I would rather have Sheets than either Millwood or Padilla (rather see Padilla go). Sheets did make 31 starts last year.

Our core lineup is based on youth with the exception of FOTF.
Hamilton although a little older is still not considered a veteran.
Kinsler, Davis, Andrus, Smoak, TG, Salty, Max. Our lineup core when we are competing is very young.

Either way, who do you think we should sign next year then to compete?

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 2:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's tough to know who to sign before the year is done.

We don’t know what prospects will step up, which will fail, who we’ll trade, etc. As it stands now:

Infield: No signings needed
Catcher: No signings needed
Outfield: No signings needed
DH: Chipper Jones, Brian Giles, Carlos Delgado, Johnny Damon, Vlad all available (numerous more)
SP: Bedard, Doug Davis, Harden, Lackey, Brett Myers available (dependent on our youngsters’ progress)
RP Kevin Gregg, Ryan Madson, Okajima, Valverde available (again dependent on progress)

So there’s more dependent on the progress of our young players than is dependent on the market. Kinsler isn’t part of the youth, as he’s already arbitration-eligible (though with a contract). Our young hitters have proven themselves for the most part, so it’s really the pitchers we should be concerned about. If Maddux can develop a program that keeps them injury-free and effective, there’s no reason to think that we should have to continually make splashes for veterans just because youth doesn’t win.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Chipper Jones would be great here

I doubt that Atlanta lets him go.

Bedard gets hurt, Lackey hurt last year, Harden constantly hurt, Doug Davis — No thanks, Brett Myers – Maybe.

I don’t see much next year that doesn’t involve the same problem of Sheets. We are going to lose Padilla next year, and possibly Millwood.

I love our youth, but I don’t think we seriously compete with them on this rate until ’11.

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 3:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Trades

You’re forgetting that trades are the primary way to get a good pitcher with the way this team is built. I’d rather send some of our prospects out for a pitcher than spend the money on a guy that’s iffy in terms of health. We can easily compete in 2010 with some smart trades and progress.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wish I was as optimistic as you

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I just know prospects are becoming the overvalued entity in baseball.

It has been free agents for quite awhile. A lot of teams are more interested in acquiring not just young controllable players, but prospects themselves. Low minors guys like an Engel Beltre and Neftali Feliz like we swiped. We have an abundance of guys like that, and I think we’ll see the best time to deal those kind of guys come in the next year or so. I’m pretty optimistic that we can swing a couple of deals that will help us for the 2010-2012 seasons.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There's a reason they are valued so highly though

I don’t know if trading them before we are fielding a very good team is a good thing to do. We need stock up on as much talent as possible and once we are a playoff team, start trading some of those type of players to fill out the team.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 4:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Depth

We have the depth to trade a select number of guys in our system. If we become that team that holds onto its prospects no matter what, we’re going to fail. We can’t be afraid of what a guy will turn into. Prospects are prospects for a reason. They haven’t made it up the chain yet. Guys in A ball have such a low probability of turning into much of anything, so we need to take advantage of our depth and trade some of those guys for impact guys at the ML level. We have a great farm system, and that’s good for producing players that play for us and for bringing in guys from the outside. We need to efficiently use both of those angles.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't say hold onto all of your prospects

Just that I wouldn’t be looking to trade anyone until we ahve a good team in place and especially not high ceiling talent like Beltre and Feliz (though I know you aren’t specifically talking about them). I don’t think trying to trade for an ace to field a winning team is the right way to go about it. We need to have the winning team in place first, and then look to trade prospects for that ace.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Same goes for signing people then.

I don’t think anyone would say we’re a winning team right now, but we’re probably pursuing that ace in Ben Sheets (at least he’s perceived as a true ace when he’s healthy). If things go right this year (not saying they go perfectly), then I would say we’d be considered as a true contending team for 2010, meaning trading prospects then would be very valuable to us.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 5:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The difference is we don't lose talent with signing Sheets

We miss out on a second round pick, but Sheets is a huge boost to this team’s chances at the playoffs these next 2-3 years and we only have to risk not getting a good value for him. With the price it would cost to get him being maybe a 2 year deal around 14/15 million for each year, its tough to see him really killing us with that contract.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can easily see it killing us.

He’s not exempt from having a major arm injury. And if he does average the 21 starts he did from 2005-2007, that could also kill us. That’s a pretty big monkey on our back, even if he does manage to pitch well in his healthy spurts. I don’t want to pony up that kind of money and a guy that could be Robbie Ross or Matt West or better.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting choice of years there

He has made less than 22 starts just once in his 8 year career. He made 31 starts last year and 24 the year before then. Saying he averaged 21 starts from a 3 year period in his career is cherry-picking at its best.

Risk vs. Reward. I’m willing to sacrifice one second round pick to get an ace pitcher here. There is risk that he won’t pitch a full season, but its risk I can live with since you know he’ll be pitching great when he is around. And the worst case scenario with him? We gave up a 2nd round pick and lost some money that will be off the books by 2011. There are worse things that could happen.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It's significant money.

So the risk is great. It’s not a low-risk signing by any means. And it’s not cherry picking to say he averaged 21 starts a year for 3 years. 22, 17, and 24 starts average out to 21 a year. Considering they were all in the typical peak period for pitchers, I’d think he’s on his way down now, not on his way back to domination. He’s an ace when healthy, but he’s far worse than anybody when he’s not. I’m tired of teams paying a guy premium money only to see him sit on the DL for significant portions of time. Sheets will be that kind of guy.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Its cherry picking

You completely disregarded last year when he put up 31 starts. And you are saying “if” he averages 21 starts when he has exceeded that total every season he’s pitched except for one season. 7 out of 8 or 1 out of 8. Which is more significant? There is a chance that his back might force him to pitch less than that, but there is no reason to try to use that as evidence that he will do it.

And he has had an ERA+ of 117 and 119 in his 2 worst years since 2004. His worst tRA+ (goes back to 2003) is 109 and 115. I can more than live with that over 25 or so starts if he misses a month or so of starts. Its sure as hell better than hoping that we can get some kids to put up numbers anywhere close to that. And 23.5 starts is what he has been averaging these past 4 years.

And the money isn’t that bad. If you are committing to him long-term, then its bad. Otherwise, you are talking about taking some money out of Hicks pocket the next couple of years that he wouldn’t be spending on any other FA or be putting away in a piggie bank for future FAs. It might be a bit annoying seeing a guy make that type of money while hurt, but I don’t see how that should be any type of reasoning for not signing Sheets.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 5:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My Philosophy

Is that you use free agency to get that player or two that puts you over the top. Free agency is paying guys the highest money in the market that are almost exclusively headed for their decline years. It’s not smart to me to pay Sheets to come here when we almost certainly won’t win us the division. Use that money for development or something else baseball related. But paying a guy an 8 figure salary knowing you probably won’t compete for at least a year of that deal is ridiculous to me. Use it constructively for the sustaining of a long successful run later (i.e. sign a Harold Martinez and other high ceiling draft picks, etc.).

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

what about a pitcher like Marti

the cuban defector. what would you pay him? would you sign him?

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have no idea.

Never seen him and don’t know the outline of the market.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And I don't 100% trust his age.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why can't we win the division?

This is a weak division this year and Sheets addresses our biggest weakness. 2010 is the year when we were expecting to compete anyways and Sheets is just an added bonus to that.

And the Rangers have been one of the teams to pay over slot for talented players in the draft and were on the verge of being huge spenders in the LA market if not for the corruption of the signing system there.

And Harold Martinez was looking for some top pick money or wasn’t going to sign. Even if you have the money, its not always wise to spend that money on draft picks like that who have a ton of question marks (relative to other draft picks) and still want top round money.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 6:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We have to have everything fall right

To win the division, regardless of how weak it is. Even with Sheets (which would mean without Millwood or Padilla).

huge spenders in the LA market if not for the corruption of the signing system there.

There’s no evidence we lost anyone directly due to this. It’s speculation on imperfect information.

As for Harold Martinez, I was just saying that there’s even more we can do. Take those guys with flaws and trust our system. The high ceiling part is most important when you trust your development guys.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 6:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Arizona and Sheets

When listening to MLB Home Plate earlier today, there was mention of Arizona talking to Sheets’ agent about a one-year contract for $5 million, with another $5 million in incentives (no option). This is certainly a lot less than some of the estimates that people around here were talking about.

by Excel Hearts Choi on Jan 11, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Which says to me

Either their information is wrong or people are scared by the late-season injury. There may be something we don’t know.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 6:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If their information is right

and people are that scared of the injury to where a 5 million dollar deal gets it done, I can’t possibly imagine it not being a great idea for the Rangers to jump all over that. That’s practically the same as the contract Gagne was signed to with that base salary and incentives only the reward is a whole lot better. And there honestly can’t be any reasonable person out there that would hate to take that gamble on Gagne again.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If it's 5 million

I’m completely on board with it. I think all 30 teams are on board with it.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If...

Well, I’ve yet to see any other confirmation about the Arizona – Sheets rumors. Moreover, the same radio program also talked about a trade between the Red Sox and the Brewers centering around Fielder and a bevy of prospects from Boston (Buchholz among them). The program cited the Boston Globe as reporting the story. I cannot find any mention of this rumored trade (only Rosenthal talked of this in a column up earlier in the week).

by Excel Hearts Choi on Jan 11, 2009 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The loss of...

…a Matt West or a Robbie Ross, if you can get a Ben Sheets, doesn’t worry me.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 11, 2009 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

the rays

became a playoff team because they used their system effectively. The did not wait until they were almost playoff contenders before parlaying prospects into players. Rather, the players they traded for made them playoff contenders. If you want to wait until Main, Feliz, Holland become aces rather than using them to get aces then you are really talking about a Ranger’s playoff team in 2011 or 2012.

Building the Rangers and Rays

by Goyogringo on Jan 11, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Who did they trade?

They swapped Young, Harris, Pridie for Garza, Bartlett, and Morlan. Pridie was the only player in their minor league system. They also traded Elijah Dukes, but that was more because they were sick of his crap. They didn’t exactly shake things up. It was their great young talent making it through the Majors, a great trade for Kazmir a few years ago, and hitting on some FAs like Pena, Iwamura, and Floyd.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And you don't even have to use those guys in trades.

We have a ton of low-level arms that are attractive to teams. Packaging them with the right functional guy can net a good bit of talent. Using a farm system is important.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 5:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Great

Use that farm system when the time is right or a deal is on the table that is too good to pass up on. The type of deals out there now for a guy like Greinke or Cain aren’t going to be helping this team d all that much. You still end up with a team that isn’t ready for the WS and lose top talents in the process. Do you think Atlanta regrets making that Tex deal right now?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 5:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They regret it now.

But with the depth they have in their system, it’s not a crippling blow to their franchise. Just like it wouldn’t be for us. If we can develop the Braves’ philosophy of reloading rather than rebuilding through solid trades, drafts, international signings, and relatively inexpensive FA signings, we have the potential to win well into the next decade. If we’re waiting on deals that is just too good to pass up, we’re never going to make the trades that have the most impact.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And I'm talking the Schuerholz philosophy

1991-2005.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You wait on the "too good to pass up" deals only when talking about

the high ceiling prospects. If you want to throw in some middle of the rotation type to some deal to make it work, go for it. If there is a deal out there where you give up Major League talent, better known quantities, go for it. I just don’t think giving up high ceiling talent to fix one hole on the team for the next couple of years is a good use of resources. After all, you don’t want to give up a Matt West or Robbie Ross.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well

maybe west…

Building the Rangers and Rays

by Goyogringo on Jan 11, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

After all, you don’t want to give up a Matt West or Robbie Ross.

For Ben Sheets and the contract he’ll carry. Since we’ll also have to get rid of Padilla or Millwood to carry that contract as well. 2nd round picks are valuable. As for the high ceiling guys, would you trade away Engel Beltre if that netted you a top of the rotation guy that stays healthy? I most certainly would.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

Why do we have to get rid of Padilla or Millwood to carry that contract? I wouldn’t necessarily bitch about it, but I don’t think this team is that broke where it must trade away a 1 year contract like those guys are on unless it was beneficial to the team to trade them away.

If we’re talking about Beltre alone, yeah. That’s a pipe dream. To get a top of the rotation pitcher here, you’re going to start the conversation with some of our top prospects and then have to add on guys like Beltre, pre-Tex trade Feliz, etc.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 6:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why do we have to get rid of Padilla or Millwood to carry that contract?

Because our budget says that we do.

To get a top of the rotation pitcher here, you’re going to start the conversation with some of our top prospects and then have to add on guys like Beltre, pre-Tex trade Feliz, etc.

If you look at what the Pads were asking for Peavy, it’s not that much in the scheme of things. Other teams with weak systems would look at Beltre as the main prospect in a deal a year from now assuming he has a good year. Add in a Hurley (not a top prospect), a David Murphy, and a Renny Osuna or Marcus Lemon-type infielder and you have the outline of a deal. Maybe not the entire deal, but you get my point. You don’t have to give away a Holland or Feliz.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 6:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

x

Because our budget says that we do.

That’s what TR has been saying a lot, but I don’t see Hicks forcing JD to trade Padilla or Millwood for nothing just to save money. If there’s a good deal from Atlanta or someone else out there, I would expect him to take it since we are talking about a guy on a 1 year deal. I just don’t see it happening otherwise.

The Peavy rumors have them holding out for Josh Vitters, Jeff Samardzija, or Tommy Hansen in their deals, each organization’s top prospect. And the Braves reported packages of Escobar, Schafer, and some other prospects is one top prospect and one great young Major League player plus another couple of solid prospects. Again, for the Rangers to get Peavy, assuming the no-trade clause was dropped, you’d probably end up losing Holland or Smoak in addition to another top prospect with a player like Beltre being a throw in. And throwing in a player like Beltre is getting terrible value for that caliber of player.

Now if you wanted to trade Beltre, Hurley, Murphy, and Osuna/Lemon (two prospects with a pretty big difference in value), you could probably get a proven mid-rotation starter.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not talking specifically about Peavy.

Peavy is one of, if not the best, starting pitchers in all of baseball when he’s on, which is more often than not.

I’m also talking about the landscape a year from now. Hurley could possibly be seen as a mid-rotation guy, Beltre a budding top prospect equal in talent to any outfield prospect in baseball, Murphy a proven outfield option, and Lemon as a solid second base option. I said Osuna, because I think he hits his way into the equation this year. And there are plenty of others guys that could take off in value this year in the minors. Think about the guys we’ll have at Hickory and Bakersfield. If you add a Max Ramirez/Teagarden/Salty for a team that needs a catcher, you’ve almost definitely got yourself a package good enough for a top of the rotation guy. Depends on what the team is.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well I have my doubts about Peavy, but still

Look at the trades for proven top of the rotation starters recently. 1 year of Santana got Gomez, Guerra, Mulvey, and Humber. That 3 of the Mets top 5 according to BA plus their number 7 prospect. Haren got a huge haul in Carlos Gonzalez, Greg Smith, Brett Anderson, Dana Eveland, and Aaron Cunningham. As great as Haren was for the D-backs last season, you don’t think they are regretting giving Brett Anderson in that deal too? A half season of Sabathia got the Indians LaPorta+. To get a top of the rotation starter, even with the rising value of prospects, you are talking about giving up some of your top prospects. This great system would take a huge hit in high ceiling talent and depth.

And if your scenario plays out, I definitely don’t want to do that deal. Why trade those guys for a top of the rotation arm when you have Holland, Feliz, and Main in the 2010-2011 picture with plenty of more talented arms on the way. You’re trying to improve the Rangers rotation by trading good pitching, a top OF prospect who has superstar potential, and a proven solid OF, and a MI prospect (if its Lemon) whose value in this trade is much less than what his value is on its own. And adding one of the catchers just makes it even worse.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Holland, Feliz, and Main

They won’t be top of the rotation guys in 2010 and probably 2011 in the most likely scenario. If you want to put together a great rotation, having those guys at the back end is the best option. And you have to give up talent to get talent, so I’d be happy to have a veteran #1 in exchange for the guys I listed. The catcher is just an addition for the very top of the top.

If I’m the D’Backs, I don’t regret the Haren deal for one minute. They have a 28 year old top of the rotation guy next to Webb for at least two more years with outstanding talent around them. That’s a great deal, especially looking at the guys around Anderson in that deal. And I make that deal if I’m the Mets for Santana any day. Same for Sabathia. Proven top of the rotation guys are so much more valuable and rare than you think. If you can add a true #1 to our group of rising prospects, imagine what 2010-2012 or so can look like. Beyond that, if you continue to reload, you can continue to do the same.

It feels so good to be talking about baseball on here during such a boring time in the offseason.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 7:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If Jason's right in his optimism with Main

I think we can see all three be pitching pretty well in 2011. I think Holland struggles a bit in 2010 but has a strng rookie season while Main gets a bit of playing time in 2010 to help get a strong 2011. Feliz’s fastball makes him a good candidate to be a pretty good pitcher right away as long as he isn’t rushed. And you don’t want to be signing Sheets for the next 2 seasons is a good investment because we aren’t that close to competing, so its not a bad timeline.

The thing with the Haren deal is that they gave up Brett Anderson in addition to Carlos Gonzalez and now Brett Anderson is one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. That’s simply not getting good value for a prospect. One year and Anderson went from a great prospect to an elite one. Wait one more year, and you can be looking at elite prospect starting a great Major League career. The real prize for the D-Backs was that they were able to work out an extension with Haren when they traded for him, but its still not getting max value for their minor league talent.

I agree on a good baseball discussion in a boring offseason. Helps pass the time.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 8:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Anderson

Brett Anderson still isn’t a sure thing, though. The D’Backs got great value for him, because they turned a good prospect into a TORS. Gonzalez has been consistently overrated and Greg Smith was highly lucky in 2008. Cunningham also seems to be a fourth outfielder type. Even knowing what I know today, I’d still be happy as a D’Backs fan with the Haren deal. They’re a good team to pick to win the NL West for the next few years with the chance to win championships.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well as great as Haren was

He still had an ERA+ one point lower than Sheets which I think is a funny little note in this whole thing.

And Gonzalez and Smith were pretty important in getting the A’s Holliday so they still have some pretty good value around the league.

And while Brett Anderson isn’t a sure thing, you can still trade him now and his value is a hell of a lot better than what it was when the D-backs traded him. It gets to the point where you don’t have to group him in a deal with other great prospects to land that player you want.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 8:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It Assumes

That Anderson would have performed that way in the Arizona system. I don’t think that’s the case. Same with the other guys. And I think Street was more instrumental with Holliday. Could be wrong. And Haren has four consecutive 200 inning years. I’ll take that over Sheets.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 8:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

For one

you pay somewhere between 10-15 million dollars for. The other one, you pay that same amount plus trade your top prospects for.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 9:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Haren is younger and more durable

That’s easily worth its weight in prospects in my opinion.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

who???

is going to trade a TORG for Engel Beltre?

I’m sure everyone on this board would trade Beltre for a TORG, problem is, no other team would do that.

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 11, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying straight up.

I’m saying as a prospect centerpiece. Assuming Beltre is a top prospect a year from now (meaning he had a good year in Bakersfield and hasn’t completely lost the Griffey comparisons).

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

A good year in Bakersfield

doesn’t mean much given the hitter friendliness of the Cal league. The only exception is if his walk rates take a huge jump up. That would make his value take a huge jump forward. And if that’s the case, I don’t want to be trading a 5 tool player who has that type of polish in his hitting. Great defense, great power, at least good plate discipline, make-up is good and he has shown an ability to improve on his weakness, That’s the type of player you keep.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 7:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good Year

I mean relative to the league. I don’t think he has to improve his plate discipline that much as he goes up the chain to be seen in a better light. If he continues to hit, teams that value tools (Philadelphia, etc.) will be all over him. If he hits .300/.330/.450 at Bakersfield, I think teams will be drooling over that production from a 19 year old. He could be a key piece in a number of different potential deals over the next 12 months.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

He could be

It just wouldn’t be for a top of the rotation starter.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 7:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You need to make signings like Sheets in order to compete.

Guys like Feliz and Holland are great and I hope they pan out, but no matter what we can win with them alone.

Plus a Sheets signing at a bargain two yr deal with an option could also bring more players here in coming years. Nobody wants to come into a situation where the team loses and loses and loses. I think you have to show signs of winning this year, or else its more of the same reclamation projects we sign next year. Furthermore, I’m not a huge Lackey fan, and I don’t think he would come here. What other pitchers do you think are willing to come here?

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

can't win with them alone

Wait 'til the year after next

by NothinG on Jan 11, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well....

The Rangers did acquire Josh Hamilton within a couple months of the acquistion of Thomas by the Cowboys, Richards by the Stars and Kidd by the Mavs. The other deals (Williams, Pacman and Avery) are so toxic they shouldn’t even be discussed.

by Darrell McKown on Jan 11, 2009 3:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

We need to sign him already!!!

by Coolbean04 on Jan 11, 2009 11:53 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Does anybody think

Pedro going to the Marlins (if that deal happens) would spring any of the Marlings pitchers for a Salty/Teagarden trade?

My answer is no but hoping someone else has a different take. They can’t really be so comfortable with Pedro that they would give up Volstad, right?

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Jan 11, 2009 12:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Volstad is the wrong name

maybe Anibal Sanchez?

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Jan 11, 2009 12:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Is he the guy to target, though?

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 12:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't imagine...

…the Rangers would part with a catcher for Anibal Sanchez.

by Adam J. Morris on Jan 11, 2009 12:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sanchez

If Sanchez is healthy, I would strongly consider dealing Ramirez for him and maybe another lesser prospect.

I’ve always like Sanchez though, and I’m not sold on Ramirez. I think it may be the time to sell high on him.

by Darrell McKown on Jan 11, 2009 1:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

not sold on Max

what does he need to do? post a .900 OPS? well he does that every year. post a 1.000 OPS? well he’s done that during his first crack at AA.

Why do you think now is the time to sell high on him?

"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM

by tricer on Jan 11, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

I’d have to be blown away. Hate to see that bat tear it up someplace else. Poor man’s Manny. I can’t get over that street shot he hit last year.

by scoop16 on Jan 11, 2009 4:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

is there nobody in between

volstad and sanchez?

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Jan 11, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not really.

None of Nolasco/Miller/Johnson are likely to be dealt.

If you don’t want Sanchez, maybe you turn to guys like Tucker/West for Max.

by LiamP on Jan 11, 2009 2:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Add to That

Jose Ceda, Aaron Thompson, Brett Sinkbeil. Ceda’s the best of the group. It would definitely have to be a combination of Tucker + someone else fairly significant or West + someone else even more significant to get Ramirez from us.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 2:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There's no way we get all that for Max.

by LiamP on Jan 11, 2009 3:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying we get all of them.

I’m saying we’d ask for Tucker+ or West+ before we agree to anything.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 4:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that's accurate

There was a rumor a little while ago that said the Marlins would trade Tucker for Ramirez. If that was accurate, then the Rangers probably were asking for something else in addition to Tucker.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 4:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That's likely.

Since Tucker’s not seen as a surefire starting pitching prospect, I think it’s pretty understandable that JD would ask for something in addition to him.

Mike Grouse Interview - Rangers' Midwest Cross Checker

by Andy Seiler on Jan 11, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oops.

Didn’t see the “or”.

by LiamP on Jan 11, 2009 4:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Red Sox don't worry about money,

but they do worry about value. Only a fool would pay many millions when a comparable player is already in hand for much less.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 11, 2009 12:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Slightly OT: Mariners brass meets with fans

Here’s a recap from USS Mariner:
http://ussmariner.com/2009/01/10/the-jan-10-recap-of-sorts/

More confirmation that the M’s are under smarter management now. Most interesting quotes to me:

Wakamatsu — they think Wakamatsu’s going to be tremendous. Raaaaaaaaaaved about Wakamatsu.

Changes in the way the team consults with their statheads, so the baseball research guys have an active part in discussions… Tango’s encouraged to push ideas and information up. There will be input into Wakamatsu’s strategies.

Draft: draft the best guys. College/high school, pitcher/hitter, doesn’t matter.

Also something in there about not rushing prospects as much, which has been a problem up there, IMHO.

G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....

by t ball on Jan 11, 2009 12:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Valentine to the Rangers??

As Bobby would say……. Hai.

t ball on MY - "hate the contract, don't hate the player"

by bspate on Jan 11, 2009 12:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Semi-valid point, though

Sabermetrics tends to cause people to completely ignore intangible value and view baseball as a sport won by a bunch of individuals than by a team

by BuckyB on Jan 11, 2009 1:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Obviously the contract is unconscionable, though

by BuckyB on Jan 11, 2009 1:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

BP's John Perrotto

on where the remaining top FAs will go…

Ben Sheets (6.1): It’s beginning to look as if he may have to wait until spring training and hope that someone loses a starting pitcher before he’ll be able to command a decent contract. Most likely, he’ll sign with the Rangers on the cheap; he lives in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex.

Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012

by Longhorn on Jan 11, 2009 2:26 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Please let this happen

by SHSUHorn on Jan 11, 2009 2:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They also

have Varitek resigning with Boston on that list.

by SHSUHorn on Jan 11, 2009 2:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well, this is what he says on that

Jason Varitek (5.3): The switch-hitting catcher and team captain’s only option is to return to the Red Sox. It’s now only a matter of when he’ll decide to swallow his pride and take less than the $10 million he made last season, and would have made next season had he accepted the club’s offer of salary arbitration.

Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012

by Longhorn on Jan 11, 2009 2:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

Boras screwed the pooch with that little piece of advice.

by Athos on Jan 11, 2009 3:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

if i was him i’d fire boras. that was some awful advice to turn down arbitration

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg

by rentz on Jan 11, 2009 3:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Boras has been great at his job in the past

but teams aren’t biting on his BS anymore and he looks to be too full of himself to have foreseen the effect of the economy on baseball’s non-elite FAs. I really would love to see more players do what A-Rod did last season and publicly bitch slap Boras.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Jan 11, 2009 4:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Since I find it necessary to comment on all Mavs rumors:

I saw this odd nugget:

3-way with Charlotte and OKC:

Diop and Watson to Charlotte

Felton to Dallas

No speculation on OKC’s return

I don’t really see how that makes sense as anything but a salary dump. But as a salary dump, it sure is nice.

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 3:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Link

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/01/11/nelson_thinks_you_should_believe_in_magic/?page=2

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 3:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't make sense out of it.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 11, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Here's one I cooked up

And it makes only marginal sense for each team, but here goes:

Howard and Bass

for

Wright, Belinelli, and Jackson

We’re getting the superior talent by far in the deal, so there’s the possibility of the immediate balk. The benefit to GS, though, is that they get to shed a terrible contract (and they have plenty of those to go around), they get a perfect Nelly player in Bass, and a better defender and contract in Howard.

It wouldn’t happen, but I think Wright and Belinelli are two guys to target.

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 4:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

jackson and howard

very similar players but it’s kind of disconcerting that howard never became better than jackson. jackson is probably the better player now, no?

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Jan 11, 2009 4:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

He’s the better offensive player for sure. Not even close. Howard’s a better defender and he has a more reasonable contract. That’s all he has on him, really.

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I definitely think Wright can be had.

I’ve never seen Belinelli play, but I hear good things about him. Im sure Nelly would love to have Howard. I wonder if Nelly would prefer Bargani over Howard, because you could make it a three-way.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 11, 2009 4:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've seen him

Several times.

He’s got a pretty sweet shot and, from an article I read last week, he’s really come a long way on his defense—the article is entirely about the fact that he’s gone from the doghouse to guarding Kobe (also mentions that Kobe was trash-talking in Italian).

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 4:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

Has anybody else noticed that ESPN’s completely ripped off “Trade Machine” is actually vastly superior to RealGM’s?

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I had no idea.

Never used RealGM’s, but I do love ESPN’s. Is Belinelli a pg or sg?

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 11, 2009 4:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

SG

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 4:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Lord had a piece on this rumor

on db.com.

*And with [Raymond] Felton and [Joe] Smith to Dallas (with [DeSagana] Diop and [Shawne] Williams leaving), [Sean] May, [Adam] Morrison, and Williams going to OKC (with Smith and [Earl] Watson leaving), and Diop and Watson going to Charlotte (with May, Morrison, and Felton leaving), we’ve finished our imaginary negotiations.

   How does the dust settle?

  In Dallas we’re happy because we’ve not stripped ourselves of a backup big man, we’ve got a young-but-talented PG, and still have Josh Howard, Brandon Bass, and the advantageous contract of Jerry Stackhouse to use for any other bigger possibilities that might emerge.

    OKC is happy because they get more young talent to plug into their building program.

    And Charlotte gets a couple of defensive-oriented veterans to replace underachieving offensive-minded kids, which will make Larry Brown happy.

Note I couldn’t get it to work in RealGm trade checker though so I must have missed something.

Signature! I don't need no stinking signature!!

by DerekSTheRed on Jan 11, 2009 4:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Charlotte gets the short end of the stick

Felton seems more valuable. But I’ve also never liked Watson, so.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 11, 2009 4:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That would be

Such a ridiculous steal for Dallas. Charlotte and OKC get completely fucked there. That’s pretty unrealistic, I think.

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 4:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

By the way

It does work, salary-wise.

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

The Mavs got to do something whether it’s buy and make one last run or trade Kidd and get some pieces for the future. It’s clear that this team as is, will not win a championship.

Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!

by sprite on Jan 11, 2009 4:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Malice in the Palace

What was the Carlisle/Jackson relationship like after that?

by scoop16 on Jan 11, 2009 4:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

From everything I've read

They’re not very close.

by brettgardner on Jan 11, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

do people really call it that?

Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade

by ab03 on Jan 11, 2009 4:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think so.

by scoop16 on Jan 11, 2009 4:23 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

reply button is your friend

As i was told after my first couple of post here.

"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract

by tyd3311 on Jan 11, 2009 4:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

that reminds me of

when I told iorange555 to use the reply button and he told me he knew about it but “doesn’t like to use it”.

the preceding post was a great success.

by DSheppard on Jan 11, 2009 4:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Thought I was...

I’ll work on it.- Thanks

by scoop16 on Jan 11, 2009 4:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Good lord.

half a thread of Gdawg-Andy Seiler talk. This might be rock bottom.

"Obama is a Christian - He's always been a Christian...But.........what if he is[a Muslim]? Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer is no, that's not America." Colin Powell on Obama/Muslim assertions.

by AirJordan on Jan 11, 2009 8:41 PM CST reply actions 0 recs