Monday a.m. things
So, yeah, so much for there not being any news out there on the Rangers.
T.R. Sullivan's most updated story says that the possibility of Michael Young changing his mind and agreeing to play third base is not a "strong possibility" at this point. It also has Young saying his complaint was that he was not asked to move, he was told to move, which seems to me to be an odd thing to get hung up on.
Mike Hindman offers his thoughts on the situation. He's pretty clearly disappointed in Young.
Buster Olney offers his thoughts this morning at ESPN.com:
Michael Young told the Rangers he'd like to be traded, rather than play third base. This will put GM Jon Daniels in a very tough spot: Young will be extraordinarily difficult to trade because his salary is so high -- he is set to make $16 million for each of the next five seasons -- and he's 32 years old, and he's not a power hitter, and some advance scouts just don't think he can play shortstop any more. At a time in which teams have been hanging onto their cash, Young is probably as close to being untradeable as anyone in the game, unless the Rangers eat a huge chunk of the contract in the way they ate almost 40 percent of A-Rod's contract to move him.
Earlier in the offseason, before any of this position-change stuff came up, I spoke with several general managers who said they would have no interest in Young because of his contract. "Nice player, awful contract," said one.
Comments
Hindman's take
Agree 100%. If MY really considers himself a leader and whatnot — he’d swallow his pride and help the team.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on
Jan 12, 2009 8:30 AM CST
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Yeah
after reading that, I realized that MY isn’t so much the Face of the Franchise, but the Face of This Franchise. A losing franchise that doesn’t seem to know what it takes to win and is amongst the worst in Baseball.
Get off my lawn.
by DJCahill on
Jan 12, 2009 8:33 AM CST
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Ouch...
As much as it hurts to hear this… +1
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on
Jan 12, 2009 8:52 AM CST
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How not to do offseason PR 101
1) Kick longtime season ticket holders out of their seats.
2) Raise Ticket Prices
3) Don’t sign any significant free agent.
4) Piss off the FOTF and get his demand to be traded.
by SanDiegoKev on
Jan 12, 2009 9:50 AM CST
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Wow
This might be the most profound thing I’ve ever heard on MY.
Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?
by lonestarJon on
Jan 12, 2009 3:21 PM CST
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Biggest Duh of the year.
At a time in which teams have been hanging onto their cash, Young is probably as close to being untradeable as anyone in the game
Get off my lawn.
by DJCahill on
Jan 12, 2009 8:30 AM CST
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Did you delete my Hindman post in the other thread?
by shroomer on
Jan 12, 2009 8:32 AM CST
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The contract
I know Young would have very little reason to do this, but what are the chances that he is willing to renegotiate his contract with a new team?
"that suzuki guy should go back to making cars" - My girlfriend after C.J.'s close in game 2
by tdi1985 on
Jan 12, 2009 8:33 AM CST
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Zero
MLBPA won’t let him reduce the $ owed. He might agree to defer some of it or something like that — but if you meant to reduce the value, it won’t happen.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on
Jan 12, 2009 8:34 AM CST
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Yeah...
I mean, there really is no reason he would even want to reduce the amount owed. But there has to be a way to rework it to make it look slightly more attractive. Defer a lot of it, and then maybe you get lucky with Young having some sort of an amazing year that interests another team. idk.
"that suzuki guy should go back to making cars" - My girlfriend after C.J.'s close in game 2
by tdi1985 on
Jan 12, 2009 8:39 AM CST
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This whole thing goes to show you what type of team we are trying
to commit to and what type of player Mike Young really is.
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on
Jan 12, 2009 8:36 AM CST
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Pride Kills
seems like MY is letting his get the best of him.
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on
Jan 12, 2009 8:38 AM CST
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I don't think the
$12M/yr is the problem. It is $12M/yr for 5 years. I still think he plays 3B for the Rangers in 2009.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on
Jan 12, 2009 8:40 AM CST
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Im conflicted with his contract status,
Some say 60, some say 80. What is the lowdown there?
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on
Jan 12, 2009 8:42 AM CST
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It has been reported
that $20M has already been paid in the form of bonuses in 2007 and 2008. He has about $60M left ovet the next 5 years.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on
Jan 12, 2009 8:44 AM CST
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Yah it's also been reported that it's deffered money, not bonus money already paid out.
We don’t know where the truth lies.
My guess is that it’s deferred money that’s yet to be paid out.
Cause if we really already paid him 20mm in bonuses over the past two year, I think we’d have heard about it.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 8:49 AM CST
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I tend to agree
until i see something official to the contrary
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on
Jan 12, 2009 8:51 AM CST
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I think I got it figured out.
I don’t know why i didn’t see this before. So it is $80M – $5M 2008 club option as part of the deal – $15M deferred = $60M for 5 yrs. If MY is traded, Hicks will probably have to eat the $15M plus maybe an additional $10M if the Rangers want to get back a decent player.
From Cots
5 years/$80M (2009-13)
signed extension with Texas 3/07, with Rangers exercising $5M 2008 club option as part of the deal
09-13:$16M annually (total of $15M deferred)
no-trade protection 2007-09, limited no-trade protection from 2010 to May, 2011 (submits list of 8 clubs to which he’d accept trade), before receiving 10-and-5 rights in May, 2011
award bonuses, including $25,000 for Gold Glove
4 years/$10.5M (2004-07), plus 2008 club option
signed extension with Texas 4/04, replacing 1 year/$0.45M deal signed 3/04
04:$1M, 05:$2.5M, 06:$3M, 07:$3.5M, 08:$4M club option ($0.5M buyout)
2008 option increased to $5M based on performance
award bonus: $50,000 for All Star selection
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/texas-rangers.html
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on
Jan 12, 2009 9:53 AM CST
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That makes a lot more sense than this, "He's already been paid 20mm!!!" thing we've been hearing of late.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 10:16 AM CST
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That still only means hes making 13 mil per instead of 16 mil per
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Jan 12, 2009 12:57 PM CST
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I believe
The phrasing was “already paid 20MM bonus over the past two years”. That would indicate the $60 or $62 remaining is the amount owing.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on
Jan 12, 2009 10:11 AM CST
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Yah, I know the phrasing. I just don't believe those reports. I think they're wrong. I think it's deferred money, not already paid out bonus.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 10:16 AM CST
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Then even the local reporters are in on the lie.
Which is difficult to believe.
by Athos on
Jan 12, 2009 10:22 AM CST
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I don't think it's a lie, per se. Contracts are complicated and things get confused in the game of telephone.
If we were already paying him ~8-10mm per year in bonuses the past two years, why did we never hear mention of it when the team’s payroll came up the past two years?
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 10:26 AM CST
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Deferred Money
Yeah, because things were so quiet about already paying him the bonus money, I guess it is deferred. The thing is, deferred money typically comes at an interest rate (Andruw Jones is an exception), which means the Rangers will be overpaying Young twice.
Yesterday I said that paying Young up front was a good way of turning a terrible contract into something a little more palatable. It seems that I was a little premature with that. I hope all this talk about an unmovable contract will cause somebody somewhere to get to the bottom of just how much money Young is owed.
by Excel Hearts Choi on
Jan 12, 2009 10:30 AM CST
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So I can say that
MY’s contract is the alltime third worst contract this team has signed. Right behind arods and chan’s
G4L
by No More Gingercide on
Jan 12, 2009 2:17 PM CST
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why was the arod contract so bad?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Jan 12, 2009 2:19 PM CST
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It wasn't.
That is, it wasn’t until we started paying another team for the privilege of letting them have the privilege of the services of the league’s best player.
by Athos on
Jan 12, 2009 2:23 PM CST
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ok
fair enough haha
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Jan 12, 2009 2:25 PM CST
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I tend to agree
that he will be the 3B here. I think they should wait a year or at least a half year for Andrus’ benefit, but if they’re headed down that road, I think Young at 3B is most likely. Just too hard to trade.
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 9:05 AM CST
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x
some advance scouts just don’t think he can play shortstop any more.
And…. That’s why the Rangers want him to move.
Fire Todd Dodge. Seriously. 45 given up in the 1st quarter. Wow. But still we're better than Washington! Oh and, SUCK IT WESTERN KENTUCKY! 1-10 baby!
by sprite on
Jan 12, 2009 8:41 AM CST
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I'm surprised that the decision makers
JD, Wash, Nolan and Hicks came up with the decision to move him this year. I figured they would live with him at short this year and move him to third in 2010. I agree MY is being uncool about it, especially if his people are the ones going to the media, but given that Andrus just has half a year at double A, to MY, it probably does seem like they’re rushing the issue, which would seem like a slap in the face.
"Never go with a hippie to a second location."
by jcAustin on
Jan 12, 2009 8:42 AM CST
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Andrus played 118 games at AA
seems like a full season. He’ll start in AAA and probably be a mid-season call up if all goes well with him.
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on
Jan 12, 2009 8:47 AM CST
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2010
JD has said that 2010 is the year the Rangers are to seriously contend for the division. Andrus needs to be in the MLs in 2009. I also expect them to push Holland, Borbon, Feliz, Diamond and Smoak. It may only be Sept call ups for some, but I think all of the see Arlington this year.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on
Jan 12, 2009 8:51 AM CST
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I would be shocked if Smoak made it all the way to Arlington this year
I expect he’ll make it to the Show in ’10. Perhaps this year if he performs extremely well and we trade Blalock, but if Blalock is still here, Smoak is still in the minors.
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on
Jan 12, 2009 8:54 AM CST
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+1
Smoak doesn’t need to be pushed into the majors so soon. Let him stay in Frisco during the summer, and at the end of the season (when I’m sure we trade some players and is room on the 40) call him up to just get a taste of the majors, with the indication that in 2010 he has a shot to win a starting job for us
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Jan 12, 2009 11:56 AM CST
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I would expect
Feliz and Smoak to be Sept. call ups.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on
Jan 12, 2009 12:03 PM CST
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i agree that
it’s the best ‘baseball’ decision, I was just pointing out what i imaged as MY’s point of view. I think we’re a better team with MY at 3rd and anyone with some range at short.
"Never go with a hippie to a second location."
by jcAustin on
Jan 12, 2009 9:18 AM CST
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At least the Rangers
recognize the obvious and won’t let a declining player hang onto SS indefinitely out of some misguided sense of loyalty. I think the timing may have been a year early, but if they really believe Andrus will be ready this summer than I guess it makes some sort of sense. One hopes that Young recognizes that and gets on board.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 8:45 AM CST
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Yeah, you're right.
I think on one hand it’s a good thing that they recognize that Elvis will be better and are willing to make that change.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on
Jan 12, 2009 8:56 AM CST
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Yep
This is actually a mildly encouraging sign about the front office. JD and Nolan not only did the right thing, it seems like they were thinking ahead and trying to anticipate any problems by addressing this situation this year. Young just flew off the handle.
by JBImaknee on
Jan 12, 2009 9:06 AM CST
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and Nolan and JD and Wash
all seem to be on the same page. something that is a really good sign
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on
Jan 12, 2009 10:50 AM CST
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per BBTiA in Joey's Elvis Andrus Prospect analysis
The knock on Andrus’s defense, and ammo for his detractors, has been the high error totals he has accumulated thus far in his minor league career. It’s true that Andrus is guilty of lazy errors, mostly stemming from poor throws made on balls he should hold onto and routine grounders that simply don’t challenge him enough, but as he continues to climb the professional ladder these avoidable errors should be corrected through continued game repetition and maturity.
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on
Jan 12, 2009 9:03 AM CST
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What's your take then?
Is he ready?
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
by Rodney on
Jan 12, 2009 9:40 AM CST
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I was kidding
I am the author of the analysis quoted above.
No, Andrus is not ready. He needs another season in the minors.
by jparks77 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:47 AM CST
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So why is this
organization rushing Andrus to the bigs if he’s not ready?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 9:49 AM CST
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This season is 2009.
They want him here in 2010.
2010 – 2009 = one year.
A full year to get ready.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:53 AM CST
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this has been stated...
but as Jamey has indicated MY cannot make the position switch mid-season. If the Rangers feel Elvis will be up at anytime this season (which most believe needs to happen in order to ensure the best chance of success in 2010 – our ‘year to contend’), then MY needs to be prepared to play 3B this year.
While, on the surface, it appears mgmt is asking MY to move either for a player who isn’t ready (Andrus) or isn’t more talented (Duran, Arias, etc) – I think this shows vision on the part of JD and Nolan.
On another note, I completely disagree with your remarks on Hindman’s article. They were not trying to get out from under his contract. They were preparing for the future and dealing with his contract the best way imaginable.
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on
Jan 12, 2009 9:59 AM CST
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Aggressive promotion schedule thus far
but Andrus isn’t in the major leagues yet. Honestly, I doubt the Rangers think Andrus will be an option to start the ’09 season at the major league level. His glove would play, but his bat is not even close to being replacement level.
I think an ‘09 call-up is possible, but I don’t think Elvis takes over as the starter until 2010.
by jparks77 on
Jan 12, 2009 10:04 AM CST
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There are about four reasons to move Young to 3b
Understandably, Rangers management only wants to talk about Andrus.
by cstorm15 on
Jan 12, 2009 10:16 AM CST
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what are the other 3 in your opinion?
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Jan 12, 2009 12:58 PM CST
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1. There aren’t any good 3b options out there for 2009.
2. Young sucks defensively at SS
3. The Rangers have no long-term options at 3b.
4. Andrus will be ready to take over the position anyways
5. The Rangers don’t want to move Young midseason.
Even Nolan said that this day would come, and that it was “unfortunately” that it came after Young won a gold glove.
Also, I think that if the Rangers thought there was any trade market for Young, they wouldn’t be moving him. They’d want to preserve his value at SS for as long as possible (like with Soriano).
by cstorm15 on
Jan 12, 2009 1:07 PM CST
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yeah, sorry misquoting :P
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on
Jan 12, 2009 1:00 PM CST
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can you expand on that a bit?
what type defense would you expect from him at the ML level?
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on
Jan 12, 2009 9:41 AM CST
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ahh, nevermind
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on
Jan 12, 2009 9:44 AM CST
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Well, in the light of a new morning ...
this still sucks. Instead of being less upset after sleeping on this, I’m even more pissed than I was last night. Young is supposed to be the class act in this franchise. He’s supposed to be that guy that sets the example for the younger players by putting his team ahead of himself. He’s failed miserably.
His talk about this whole “team first” thing being a two-way street is valid, but he’s acting like the Rangers haven’t held up their end of the bargain, which is just wrong. They showed him a ton of loyalty when they gave him a 5-year, $80m extension. I seriously doubt any other team in the league matches that offer if Young had hit the market. I doubt any other franchise would have given him the $12m per season he’s still owed on the contract.
I’m very disappointed in Young. It is a sobering moment when somebody you’ve had a great deal of respect and admiration for reveals a character flaw like this. Shameful.
by Athos on
Jan 12, 2009 9:06 AM CST
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I feel the exact same way.
While I can understand MY’s frustration, the bottom line is that he’s supposed to be a leader. What kind of example does this set for, uh, everyone?
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:17 AM CST
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CJ said it best
Most ballplayers are douchebags.
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on
Jan 12, 2009 9:20 AM CST
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Amen.
Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.
by Chase Irwin on
Jan 12, 2009 11:41 AM CST
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+1
Very well said, sir.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:25 AM CST
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I agree. Young is a proud man,
and rightfully so, he has much to be proud of. But right now, his pride is hurting his team and it’s hurting him, too. I hope he realizes that soon and climbs on board.
I don’t entirely agree with the timing of all this, I think they should have waited until next year. But then, I tend to err on the careful side of when prospects are ready, and both times I got out to Frisco last year Andrus wasn’t playing, so I haven’t seen his awesomeness in person, no feel for what he really looks like out there.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 9:44 AM CST
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The story about Brett makes me even more convinced that MY got bad advice from
today’s generation of players. He asked his peers, and he claims they all were supportive of his argument that he should’ve been given more respect and of his decision to pout.
Well, he might not be willing to buy into the team plan for him to play 3B this year, but I’ll bet he will in 2010. That’s a pissy compromise but one I could live with if I were JD.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on
Jan 12, 2009 9:10 AM CST
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no compromise
play 3B and shut up, or don’t get paid.
Wait 'til the year after next
by NothinG on
Jan 12, 2009 9:15 AM CST
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I'm guessing Young wasn't looking for anyone to disagree with him
He went out looking for support, not advice.
by cstorm15 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:21 AM CST
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Apparently so
Confirmation, not advice. And the MLBPA makes it tough or impossible to “rectify” contract terms, hampering another team’s interest in him.
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang (1844-1912)
by Ed Coffin on
Jan 12, 2009 10:17 AM CST
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+1
Young called his friends up. If I got this phone call from a friend, I’d be nice about it and probably end up siding with him rather than his bosses. It happens to everyone with friends bitching about their bosses. You don’t really go and ask if their boss had reasoning to do something, you just take the side of your friend, nod your head, and agree with them.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Jan 12, 2009 12:21 PM CST
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Money in the majors wasn't as good back then
Players during Brett’s years could easily be replaced if they disagreed with an organization because contacts were not as outrageous then as they are today. I’m sure if Brett continue to whine about it, management would just easily release him, and then there’s no more job for him and no money to suppose himself and his family. For players like Young, who make millions upon millions, its hard to release them cause of their contacts, so its much easier for them to whine and bitch, since they know they are financially set
I guess we can thank Mr. Hicks for this one
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Jan 12, 2009 12:06 PM CST
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Yeah, cause, you know ...
he sucked so bad that the Royals wouldn’t have wanted to keep him and nobody was going to pick him up. Brett had LESS reason to want to move than Young when you throw in financial consequences. If he had been released, teams would have lined up for his services. Young, not so much.
by Athos on
Jan 12, 2009 1:21 PM CST
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Tough Spot
1. You can’t trade him easily. He’s not that good and declining fast…he’s going to be forced to 3b soon no matter where he goes.
2. JD can’t back down at this point and let him play SS because it shows that they can be forced by media/fan/player pressure.
Rangeressary
"the poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - G.K. Chesterton
by rangeressary on
Jan 12, 2009 9:19 AM CST
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Rich gives his thoughts:
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/01/my-two-cents.html
"Fuck Michael Young" -Coolaid
by Kinslerhomer on
Jan 12, 2009 9:21 AM CST
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"I'll only say that fans should be patient with Young. He's earned that, hasn't he?"
I could be patient if he said, ‘Well, I dunno JD… let me think about it’ or ‘Wow – move to 3B? I don’t think Elvis is ready to play SS‘. But when he says ’TRADE ME!’ I don’t feel compelled to sit around and be patient. I just assume JD go out and find a suitable trading partner and the Rangers move forward with a bunch of guys who care more about this team… and if that’s not the case with anyone, at least move forward with a bunch of guys whose contracts aren’t a mistake.
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on
Jan 12, 2009 10:07 AM CST
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Yep
There are many ways Young could have come out with this thing that don’t make him seem like a spoiled little brat who is full of himself. He chose the “Trade me, I’m too good for this” route and he’ll get trashed because of that.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Jan 12, 2009 12:22 PM CST
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Why would he have earned it, anyway?
I don’t see why I should opperate as if this was a feel good factory and not a baseball team that I absolutely want to do what it takes to win.
by philkid3 on
Jan 12, 2009 3:33 PM CST
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x
So just because a player has been to a couple of All-Star Games and won a GG this year, we should be patient with him and give into his needs. I thought we were already patient with Young when we gave him that outrageous contact years back?
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Jan 12, 2009 12:09 PM CST
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This probably won't end well
1. MY gets his trade, Rangers have to eat 40% of the contract (for five f’n years), Rangers ultimately get screwed.
2. MY refuses, plays short. Ever single time a dribbler gets by him, tons of people think the same thing (including him) “you shouldn’t be playing SS you selfish ass.”
3. MY moves, and everytime Andrus commits an error, MY and the casual fan fume about how MY would have made that play.
4. (snowball chance) some team decides to look past the contract, shrinking offense and defense and decide that their fans would love it if they traded for a perennial allstar that just won the gold glove at SS without giving much up in the trade.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on
Jan 12, 2009 9:24 AM CST
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yeah as much as i hate to say it
i think a trade is probably the best outcome for the rangers. but that is contingent on there being at least some sort of reasonable offer out there. we will probably have to eat substantial dough but the outlook is till promising: we have a talented core of young major leaguers (hamilton, davis, kinsler) ready to become the new tripartite face of the franchise and a plethora of young minor leaguers about to be knocking on the door. As important as Michael was to this team during the early and mid 2000s and especially once A-Rod left, I think this move shows he’s not buying into the new plan and probably isn’t a match for this next generation of Rangers’ baseball.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on
Jan 12, 2009 9:32 AM CST
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if I were JD...
my goal would be move him and his entire contract (5/62). If that means eat 20 now that wasn’t eaten before… do it. But I wouldn’t be concerned at all with what we get back. Just moving the entire contract and getting out from under a selfish player with a bad contract.
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on
Jan 12, 2009 10:13 AM CST
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i agree
i think a reasonable offer is one that frees us of as much of that contract as possible. if we can get a useful piece or a low level high ceiling guy, that would be a bonus. if it comes down to eating more of the salary to get a better player it just doesnt make much sense. if you have the choice to eat 10 million and get a scrub or 20 million and a get maybe a couple of B/B- prospects, its a no brainer. $10 million for a couple of meh prospects is idiotic. its 3 times what we paid for smoak.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on
Jan 12, 2009 10:36 AM CST
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#2 is not in the realm of possibility.
He’ll either move from SS or get traded.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Jan 12, 2009 9:37 AM CST
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#3 is the most likely scenario
Until Andrus grows into the role, the Galloway herd will be shouting loudly about how the organization screwed Young over.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 9:46 AM CST
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On the C to the Sox front
According to one baseball source, the team has been intensifying talks with the Arizona Diamondbacks concerning 25-year-old catcher Miguel Montero. The Red Sox still believe that the price for gifted Texas Rangers catcher Jarrod Saltalamachia is too high because it still includes pitcher Clay Buchholz. The Diamondbacks are not believed to be asking for Buchholz
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1144745&srvc=rss
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on
Jan 12, 2009 9:33 AM CST
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Well...
That’s annoying.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:52 AM CST
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Go ahead
Get Miguel, and regret it immediately.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:56 AM CST
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Agreed
After the show I want Greg Oden to tuck us both in and tell us stories about the old days. - Will Ferrell
by JukeboxJoe on
Jan 12, 2009 9:58 AM CST
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Tell 'em to call us
At the deadline when they need someone to play in front of Montero.
Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?
by lonestarJon on
Jan 12, 2009 3:34 PM CST
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Can you explain why?
While I would prefer to have Salty over Montero, that goes right out the window if the Sox have to give up Buchholz. From the reports I’ve read the Sox could have Montero even up for Bowden. If the two teams are working on a deal, I assume it’s something where the teams meet midway between the respective offers (the Sox offering Bard and D-Backs wanting Bowden).
Just looking at their numbers, I’m not seeing where Salty looks to be worth so much more in a trade. Montero is only a year older and outhit him last year. Given that catchers tend to develop later and AFAICT both are projects behind the plate, so the Sox thinking makes sense to me.
If there is something in their respective scouting reports that you could tell me about, I’d love to hear it (living on the east coast and getting up early for work, I don’t see much west coast baseball).
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on
Jan 12, 2009 4:44 PM CST
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The other thing
is that if getting a deal done for a lesser catcher (Montero) means the Sox don’t resign Varitek, that’s worth it in an of itself, IMO.
"I'd like to f*ck Sandra Bullock." - Pedro Martinez, explaining his secret ambition to Sports Illustrated for Kids.
by OCD SS on
Jan 12, 2009 4:59 PM CST
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Someone at Halo's Heaven wants MY
http://www.halosheaven.com/2009/1/12/718193/michael-young
As an aside, Halo also brags about this:
The 59th Most Valuable Sports Blog on Earth. Boo-YAH!
LSB is 53rd, so Boo-YAH right back at you, bitches.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on
Jan 12, 2009 9:34 AM CST
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This.
Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?
by lonestarJon on
Jan 12, 2009 3:34 PM CST
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MY to Seattle
Worth it just to see LOL’s reaction. heh
by shroomer on
Jan 12, 2009 9:55 AM CST
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One of the tubes that connects LOL to the Internet would almost assuredly burst.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Jan 12, 2009 10:01 AM CST
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I thought about this last night...
…when trying to think of potential trading partners. They have a declining, not as famous SS, and in years past had money to spend. Unfortunately, I think they are cutting salary and have changed FO’s from one that is much less smart than the Rangers to potentially one that is much smarter.
by GhettoBear04 on
Jan 12, 2009 10:03 AM CST
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MY for Bedard
who says no?
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on
Jan 12, 2009 10:15 AM CST
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me
i would never, ever trade for a player who had a labrum tear
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Jan 12, 2009 10:18 AM CST
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I'd trade MY for him.
That’s about it.
by philkid3 on
Jan 12, 2009 3:35 PM CST
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If Young moved to an AL West team
And I’m Wash, I’m telling my players to hit ground balls between SS and 3rd base, knowing full well that half the time one of those players isn’t going to drive for that ball
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Jan 12, 2009 12:12 PM CST
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you can probably hit them the other way too
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on
Jan 12, 2009 12:13 PM CST
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Towards the backstop?
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 1:56 PM CST
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So we're about 1 year away from...
being completely removed from the “Teixeira, Young, & Blalock” trio.
by cmkelly29 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:35 AM CST
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We're about 1 year away from being removed from everything
If we trade Young, Texas will only have one contractual obligation beyond 2009: Ian Kinsler.
Millwood, Padilla, CAT, Blalock, Byrd, Benoit, and now it appears Young will all be gone.
That’s some pretty impressive roster turnover. Who would that leave as the most senior Ranger? Frank Francisco?
by cstorm15 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:42 AM CST
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Benoit.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:53 AM CST
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This is the last year of his two year deal
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Jan 12, 2009 9:55 AM CST
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Ah, missed that.
Yeah, I guess it would be Frankie then.
"Either we need to re-calibrate our rectangle, or Alfonzo Marquez is not having a good night." - Josh Lewin
by utlonghorn24 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:56 AM CST
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Just compare it to the 3 Js era for the mavericks
It took a while, but thing turned good after a while (but now things sucks somewhat)
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Jan 12, 2009 12:13 PM CST
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Begs the question:
Most of my complaint with Young is his awful contract. Assuming that in any trade, the Rangers are going to eat 60% of it.
Is MY at $7.2 million (what the Rangers would save if they traded him → His actual opportunity cost salary next year) not a steal of a player? If I were the Rangers, I would want to keep him at this value. If I were another team, I would be willing to give something of decent value up to have him at this price.
by BuckyB on
Jan 12, 2009 9:40 AM CST
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That's the only way
they’ll get value in return, by reducing his obligation to the new team. Funny thing is, some teams would want him to change position. He’s really better off just staying in TX and becoming a pretty good defensive 3B.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 9:49 AM CST
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if he did back down and take 3b, he would be go down as the consummate team player. and if he was reasonably productive there and was present and active during a playoff run in 2010 or 2011, he could be remembered as one of the greatest rangers. he would be worshipped around these parts, moreso than he already is. that kind of legacy is not possible anywhere else.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on
Jan 12, 2009 10:03 AM CST
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True dat
and I still think it’s the most likely result.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 10:04 AM CST
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Combination of him at 3rd
and him learning to pull the ball a little more, again → tightens my pants a little
by BuckyB on
Jan 12, 2009 10:07 AM CST
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more than just his legacy
i think it would allow him to add the bulk that he carried before he lost weight to help his range at SS. That should result in better power numbers, and playing at 3B should be easier on his body going forward.
by clark on
Jan 12, 2009 10:14 AM CST
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Yep, yep, yep.
The move makes sense for him and probably prolongs his career. That is another thing that makes this prideful pissy fit he’s throwing that much more frustrating.
by Athos on
Jan 12, 2009 10:20 AM CST
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the interweb...
…so posters on several sites are all over trade ideas… oddly enough most are red sox fans as they don’t want to go into the season as they are… i’m really suprised at a)how excited people are about getting young, and b) how unknowledgable average internet baseball fans are….
i’ve seen such idiocy as:
1) Lowrie, Bucholz, Bowden, and Bard plus cash, for Young and Saltamaccia?
2) Sox Trade Lowrie & bucholz for Young and Salty
3) “Theo is trying to make this deal work right now, but Texas wants a bit more than he is offering. Rumor is Bucholz, Bowden, Richardson, Lowrie or Lugo for Young and Salty. Texas wants Lars Anderson, who is a beast in the making.” *and my personal favorite*
throw in a yankees homer: “trade cano and melky for young put him at second sure he would do it for yanks.”
here is hoping some of these fools actually work in a baseball front office somewhere. doesn’t kenny williams owe us one?
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on
Jan 12, 2009 9:54 AM CST
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If #3 happens with Anderson
then JD will have to be inducted into the Rangers HOF immediately.
by JBImaknee on
Jan 12, 2009 10:57 AM CST
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Haha
My favorite is this one…
I suspect Young and Saltalamacchia for Buchholz, Bowden, and Ellsbury.
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:12 AM CST
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If that happened...
The guy on Opening Day running in the outfield naked with “Thank You JD” written on his back will be me…
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on
Jan 12, 2009 12:15 PM CST
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Where did those come from?
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Jan 12, 2009 11:15 AM CST
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I am really hung up
on the “why now” question. This team asked Ian Kinsler to spend an entire year in AAA after he dominated AA, was at a more advanced age (including three years of major college experience) and played a less demanding defensive position. And yet with Andrus they seem adamant about “rushing” him to the big leagues despite the seemingly unanimous opinion that he needs more time to work out his defensive kinks. There was just no reason to force the issue this year.
And as disappointed as I am in Young’s very public reaction, I can’t help but feel that management collectively dropped the ball on this one in how they handled the situation. To demand that an established big league player switch positions for a player who has not proved himself beyond AA ball is unarguably a sensitive situation, yet it sounds like they handled it very authoritatively. Any effective manager needs to know how to manage his people.
by clark on
Jan 12, 2009 9:59 AM CST
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Kinsler
That’s probably kind of an apples-oranges comparison both offensively and defensively. I certainly think Andrus could use an entire year at AAA, but I think they feel he’ll be ready mid to late summer so they want to make the switch now.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 10:03 AM CST
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how do the situations differ
both young players were blocked by established ML veterans. If anything, Kinsler had a much stronger argument to be rushed, as he clearly had the more advanced bat. For a team that is usually hesitant to break in young players mid-season (unless injuries or gross underperformance at the ML level force their hand) it seems odd to make an exception here.
But this does explain JD’s cryptic comments about upgrading the defense up the middle at the beginning of the offseason when it seemed like we had pretty established guys playing there.
by clark on
Jan 12, 2009 10:08 AM CST
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Different type of player
is what I meant, and different level of hype (except locally). This is moot, though, because Andrus being ready or not ready is secondary to the team probably Young might just be their best option at 3B this year and better stopgaps being available for SS.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 11:14 AM CST
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I think it makes sense.
It gives MY a season to get comfortable in the position and gives the Rangers the ability to promote Andrus sometime during 2009 without having to force a move in the middle of the season.
And I seriously doubt they sat him down and said, you’re moving or else. They probably explained the plan to him and said, “This is what we want you to do.” The fact that they approached him before spring training shows a lot of respect. They had every right to go to ST and simply order him to move. They’re making decisions aimed at the long-term success of this club. Like any long-term investment, a little short-term sacrifice is usually necessary.
by Athos on
Jan 12, 2009 10:06 AM CST
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Hopefully they're willing
to give Andrus some more time if he needs it. These articles all seem to give the sense that they’re convinced he’s ready.
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 10:08 AM CST
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I'm not convinced they think he's ready.
I think they want him to have a little seasoning before hitting their target of competing in 2010. Whether they think he’s ready or not this year, they want him to be in place in 2010. They want him to have gotten over some of the jitters and growing pains before the team hits its stride and not while it is doing so.
It’s definitely a push to bring him up this year.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on
Jan 12, 2009 10:11 AM CST
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I think
they’re having to do this to avoid asking MY to move in the middle of a season. I think this means Andrus is up in ‘09 for sure, and they’re just getting ready for that.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on
Jan 12, 2009 10:12 AM CST
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Middle of the season I could live with
At least then you can let his play show you whether he’s ready. At the moment, they’re really just guessing based on AA and VWL. Let him show you he can be consistent defensively and that he’s at least adjusted to AAA offensively. And maybe see if he gets a little stronger. He is still at an age where he’s not fully developed physically.
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 10:14 AM CST
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Right
That’s why I have a really hard time believing they are prepared to open the season with him starting at SS.
I think this is a play for later in the season, not the beginning.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on
Jan 12, 2009 10:16 AM CST
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I agree on the timing
at least as it pertains to Andrus. Whether or not you move Young now, I think that the plan should be to let Andrus get at least a half season at AAA under his belt, preferably a season and about two weeks.
As far as managing Young, what if you don’t handle it authoritatively? Their minds are made up, apparently. What good does it do to pretend like you’re going to take Young’s opinion under advisement then you’re not going to? Especially since he’s on the record just a couple of months ago saying that he would not be moving any time soon. He was going to resist this, and they knew that. I think telling him that he is moving is appropriate. Of course I’ve never understood how proprietary and entitled players seem to be about their position. They seem more concerned about their position than their team sometimes. I don’t get that.
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 10:07 AM CST
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I agree with this
Even though we all knew approaching Young about switching positions was inevitable the way it was handled was very bad. Andrus looked very good last year but unless something drastic happened in the last couple months i don’t see any way he is ML ready by opening day. I think reasonably the timeline is at the earliest the ASB.
While I agree switching positions midseason isn’t the best way to do things instead of telling young he would be moving now I think they should have told him to start taking balls at 3B in spring, maybe play a few games there, but that his position this year would be SS. Slowly break him into the position. Young isn’t an idiot. He has almost suredly read about Andrus and has played alongside him last spring. he has to know that guy is the future at his position. But to tell Young to move now when Andrus is clearly not ready is bad on the FO’s part.
And as much as people don’t want to hear it or accept it Young does have some power in this organization. His salary and seniority gives him that. Everyone here who compares it to their jobs and says they wouldn’t tell their boss what to do is not in the same boat Young is. If you were an employee making the salary and with the same amount of time at the company Young is and were told to move to a position you had no experience at so some young chump fresh out of college could come in and take over for you you would be pissed too. Since jobs don’t trade employees you would probably seek out employment elsewhere at the same pay level and same position you currently hold. And if you are an employee who has garnered the type of respect around your industry young has and earned the accolades (no matter how deserving or not) Young has you would be able to get that salary elsewhere in that position.
Bryan Smith (12:17:17 PM PT): Justin Smoak and Josh Hamilton. The AL West might just have found their Bash Brothers, v. 2.0.
by bigsteve on
Jan 12, 2009 10:10 AM CST
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A mid-season shift introduces risk into the management plan.
1) Why would MY be any more accepting of the idea then?
2) If the Rangers are even remotely talking about a wild card at that time, how can Elvis be brought up?
3) I agree with Z. Management knew that whenever they were going to approach MY, he would be “reluctant”, and so it doesn’t make sense from their perspective to wait for MY to volunteer.
4) They clearly have 2010 in mind. I don’t know where the pitching will come from, but a full season is better than a half season for Andrus if the idea is to have him up-to-speed for 2010.
If the Rangers wanted to have the option to trade Young, they should’ve waited until next offseason, since his contract removes some of his trade protection in 2010 when he is one year from a 5-10 player. Clearly, they want him to stay on this team.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on
Jan 12, 2009 10:17 AM CST
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The extra ounce of pain
Did it cross anybody else’s mind during this bruhaha that the club revealed it’s pure absence of faith in Metcalf, which just piles onto the absurdity of the Galarraga trade last Winter?
by shroomer on
Jan 12, 2009 10:17 AM CST
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Hadn't made the connection to Galarraga.
Sure, I felt bad for Metcalf, but it goes to show what a bad assessment the Rangers had of Galarraga (which JD has admitted).
Go Rangers!
by rooster on
Jan 12, 2009 10:21 AM CST
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if he has a year as good this year as he did last year
i will eat someones felt hat
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Jan 12, 2009 10:23 AM CST
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Tony Hillerman
I read Blessing Way and Listening Woman – they were pretty good, probably read some more. And for anybody interested Ender in Exile is a good read – like the Shadow books kinda. I’m currently on a Julie Czerneda kick.
by shroomer on
Jan 12, 2009 10:31 AM CST
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hmmmm
a suggestion, non fiction, if your interested in the environment/peak oil: the long emergency
do you read david baldacci/vince flynn/clive cussler?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Jan 12, 2009 10:48 AM CST
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Made it thru a few chapters of VF
Probably have read some CC, never heard of DB. I’m kinda into space operas currently – Scalzi type stuff – btw, Zoe’s Tale is very satisfying.
by shroomer on
Jan 12, 2009 12:28 PM CST
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Hillerman...
Kind of an odd placement to begin a discussion of Navajo murder mystery, but I agree Hillerman is very good. I own and have probably read 10-12 of his books.
by Topgun22 on
Jan 12, 2009 12:16 PM CST
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its cuz i suggested
that shroomer might like hillerman after i commented on his kokopelli profile pic
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Jan 12, 2009 12:25 PM CST
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kok turned me on to Hillerman a while back – just updating my progress for him.
by shroomer on
Jan 12, 2009 12:26 PM CST
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I hadn't thought about the Galarraga connection either
but I am unsurprised and relieved that they don’t want to go into a season with Metcalf as their every day guy. You never know with a guy like him that he won’t have a surprising year, but him having a quality year would be surprising on the scale that Jerry Hairston Jr’s 2008 was. And even he didn’t do it for 400-500 ABs or anything.
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 10:30 AM CST
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I've been thinking about some of that stuff
but LSB was under maintenance and couldn’t post about it. There’s a lot of fall-out on this thing. Metcalf should come out and say that its a joke that this franchise is showing him such little respect by not giving him the 3B job.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Jan 12, 2009 12:28 PM CST
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ha - I can see the headline:
Metcalf Demands Trade!!
by shroomer on
Jan 12, 2009 12:31 PM CST
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Duran should demand a trade
How insulting is it for the organization to state that it doesn’t like the alternative of Metcalf playing the bulk of the games at 3B? There isn’t even a mention of Duran as a candidate, even though he played 60 games and 30 at 3B last year, while Metcalf only played 20. How can you stay in an organization that treats you this way?
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 12:41 PM CST
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And guess what Norm starts the show off with this morning: Fucking Pacman.
"Fuck Michael Young" -Coolaid
by Kinslerhomer on
Jan 12, 2009 10:20 AM CST
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Norm and I have
an agreement that he only talks Ranger baseball between 11:30 – 12:00 when I am at lunch. :)
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on
Jan 12, 2009 10:27 AM CST
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I am sure that the morning show
mentioned Young at some point, but I listened to at least two hours of their show and the only mention I heard was as the very last item on some tickers. As I said last night, I think it will get one segment on most shows today, maybe a second on one or two.
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 10:31 AM CST
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Yeah, the Musers talked about it...I mentioned it here
http://www.lonestarball.com/2009/1/12/718059/more-michael-young-quotes#11353146
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on
Jan 12, 2009 10:32 AM CST
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Craig Miller
might have the worst handle on baseball of any media member in the area. And that’s obviously saying a lot.
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 10:49 AM CST
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oh I know
it was maddening. I was screaming at my radio. ugh.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on
Jan 12, 2009 11:00 AM CST
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I called in but didn't get through.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on
Jan 12, 2009 11:01 AM CST
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Agreed per CMiller's baseball acumen.
A couple of years ago nobody on the show what OPS meant during one of their deep discussions on the Great Game.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:16 AM CST
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Hmm, Sean Bass
is giving Junior a run for his money. Though I’m not sure that he even counts as a full fledged media member.
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 11:33 AM CST
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No I don't think he does
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:33 AM CST
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Norm on Young next, 11:20ish. .
"Fuck Michael Young" -Coolaid
by Kinslerhomer on
Jan 12, 2009 11:13 AM CST
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Had to limit Pacman talk
to just two-thirds of his show
by Brett Perryman on
Jan 12, 2009 11:14 AM CST
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Of course
right when I’m leaving to go to lunch
can someone give me a rundown of what he says?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on
Jan 12, 2009 11:14 AM CST
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Norm also said as a tease
that Young is doing what the Rangers want him to do – ask for a trade.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:16 AM CST
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Nice.
Norm, “Move Young to 2b and Kinsler to LF”
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on
Jan 12, 2009 11:23 AM CST
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Well, whodathunkit?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:24 AM CST
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"50 errors between SS & 2B next year
with Andrus & Kinsler"
Norm says that they knew Young would balk at this move to 3B and want to be traded.
Golly, gee whizz.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:26 AM CST
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So..
Norm doesn’t know shit, just like you don’t know shit.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on
Jan 12, 2009 11:27 AM CST
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sprite, as tball would say, your take
is lacking nuance.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:31 AM CST
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Replacing Young with Andrus would save runs.
Norm, like every other talk radio guy, is hung up on errors. You can’t make an error on a ball you don’t get to.
But, again, hide behind your flimsy arguments.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:32 AM CST
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gagreed
freido sounds upset that rangers don’t want to keep Face. norm makes a good point in that, its his contract is what makes him untrade-able, which kind of strikes me as the “no $hit” comment so far…
and the idea to have a trade worked out ahead of time, would have gotten out and blown up in the rangers face…
"Anyone that isn't pro-choice never met you" ~Brian Thomas on Seth...
by ivysafety39 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:40 AM CST
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That's a terrible idea.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 11:25 AM CST
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Norm
“At 2B, MY’s numbers similar to Pedroia”
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:26 AM CST
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No, he said Kinsler.
"Fuck Michael Young" -Coolaid
by Kinslerhomer on
Jan 12, 2009 11:27 AM CST
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That's what i meant
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:27 AM CST
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which numbers are those exactly?
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:28 AM CST
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Good points by Frito.
Young can’t be traded for anything of value at this point.
Norm once again says that the Rangers don’t want Michael Young on the team. – makes sense because he’s not going to be putting up $ 16 million worth of production at 3B on a team with a payroll below the KC Royals.
Norm says “this way we’re (Rangers) aren’t entirely the bad guy.” Where did we hear this last night and this morning?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:30 AM CST
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I said it?
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:31 AM CST
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If they didn't want MY on the team, they should've just waited till next offseason
to do all of this when his no-trade clause is softened. The Rangers have no trade leverage in trying to dump MY. They’ll get nothing for him and might end up paying some of his salary. It makes no sense to say that the Rangers front office wants to get rid of MY. They stand nothing to gain by doing it.
JD clearly said he is planning for MY to be a Ranger in 2009. The Rangers want MY to play 3B. Nolan has said they will not make it an ultimatum. As it now stands, MY can choose to play SS, and the Rangers can choose to keep Andrus at AAA. That’s not what the Rangers want, but it appears they would be accepting of that situation.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on
Jan 12, 2009 11:39 AM CST
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And we all know how well
JD trades when he is truly desperate.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:40 AM CST
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Sweet argument.
Way to go, overlooking the Teixeira trade, the Lofton trade, the Gagne trade…
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:41 AM CST
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In Josey's defense
those didn’t transpire in the way the Soriano deal did which I assume Josey is referring to.
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:43 AM CST
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i was just reading about the baseballthinkfactory take on the soriano trade
any guesses as to what they thought of it at the time?
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on
Jan 12, 2009 12:00 PM CST
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Any guess as to what they thought of it now?
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on
Jan 12, 2009 12:04 PM CST
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irrelevant
the issue is whether JD made a bad trade from a position of weakness.
he didn’t.
the fact that it became a bad trade was not known by the parties at the time. You can’t look at that trade and think that JD made a desperate move since nobody at the time saw it like that.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on
Jan 12, 2009 12:06 PM CST
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Another issue:
Why does JD keeps putting himself into a position of weakness?
I think he did it again in this situation.
Just hate, if you want, but this is a recurrent problem…whether you want to blame JD or Hicks.
If the Rangers end up eating part of MY’s contract, what are you going to say after the years of complaining about eating A-Rod’s contract?
There is something…or somebody…fundamentally wrong in the rnager management suites.
I'm just killing time until I'm reincarnated.
by Clueless on
Jan 13, 2009 5:00 AM CST
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Circumstances with Young
are much different than with Tex, Lofton and Gagne.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:44 AM CST
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I think this stuff is giving you a chubby
You’re pissing all over common sense and logic in your posts and loving every second of it when someone responds to your crap.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Jan 12, 2009 12:34 PM CST
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I also believe Michael Young has
blood on his hands as well because he took the money and now wants out.
I don’t blame him. All his buddies have moved on to places that actually care about winning.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 12:38 PM CST
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Who are his buddies?
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on
Jan 12, 2009 12:40 PM CST
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ARod, Tex, Bradley
All of them have said very glowing things about him.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 12:43 PM CST
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The team does care about winning
That’s the point of moving MY to 3rd… Young/Andrus is way better for the future than Metcalf/Young
And if I recall, Kinsler and Hamilton have said “glowing things” about Young as well…not everyone’s trying to get out of the organization.
by fightingengineer on
Jan 12, 2009 1:29 PM CST
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Many of those trades (Soriano, CY) were believed to help "in-the-now".
Poor player assessment killed those trades from the outset, and an equally poor assessment of how close the Rangers were to being contenders was a real blind spot in JDs vision (though, I’m sure Hicks wanted to believe the Rangers were not in need of a rebuilding of the organization around prospect development). Regardless of JDs trade history in this type of situation, I deeply, deeply doubt that the front office hopes the situation comes to that.
So, I just don’t see why this was a move the Rangers made because the want to get rid of MY. There is nothing the organization can gain from that perspective. It’s a bitter argument.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on
Jan 12, 2009 11:48 AM CST
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Norm says
the rangers will have another A-Rod deal where they will have to pay $6 mil of MY’s contract each year.
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:32 AM CST
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Calls next.
i’m calling in. Let’s see if i get on.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on
Jan 12, 2009 11:33 AM CST
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Got to him off air.
Basically reiterated that you aren’t going to get anything for him and that it makes the Rangers look like the Marlins for trying to trade Young. When pressed on why Kinsler to LF is a bad idea he pretty much just brushed it off.
0-2. I will get on the air. Bad Radio is next.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on
Jan 12, 2009 11:59 AM CST
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BAD Radio
won’t be very nice to the Rangers today.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 12:06 PM CST
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I think think this is the end game
only they won’t receive Soriano/Arias and will also have to cough up a magic bean.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:35 AM CST
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There is no way that is the end game.
They’ll let MY play SS this year before they do that. Then, if he’s still pissy next offseason, they’ll trade him when the no-trade clause goes away.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on
Jan 12, 2009 11:40 AM CST
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rooster,
the priority since 2004 with this thing is to make money and winning is secondary.
The Rangers now have to deal Young and the problem is that he’s being paid for past production.
The new team he goes to doesn’t give a bleep what he has done in his past.
Where the hell can they trade him and who will take on that contract in this economy?
To get somebody to take him, you’re going to need to sweeten the pot.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:43 AM CST
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That's why I can't understand the argument that the Rangers don't want MY.
They can’t possibly trade his salary. But, the argument is that they want to get rid of him to get rid of his salary. Those are mutually exclusive things under the circumstances. Both can’t happen. If they trade him, they will eat some of his salary, which means they won’t achieve their presumed goal of ridding themselves of his salary.
This is not a JD-Ryan-Hicks conspiracy to drive the payroll below the Rays.
So, anyway, I still think the compromise will be MY at SS in 2009, and Andrus starts in 2010. Neither side gets exactly what they want, but both get to save face to some extent.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on
Jan 12, 2009 11:54 AM CST
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How can people listen to sports radio?
I just don’t get it…
www.mavsmoneyball.com
by Wes Cox on
Jan 12, 2009 11:44 AM CST
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Ditto, it's bad enough
we have Josey here. Sports radio is like a whole sea of him.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on
Jan 12, 2009 2:02 PM CST
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I don't know if you were still listening
but that last caller about Pacman was one of the funniest calls I’ve heard in a long time.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on
Jan 12, 2009 10:49 AM CST
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I thought that call
was a royal beating.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on
Jan 12, 2009 11:19 AM CST
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yeah, it was
but it was hilarious to hear Norm yell at him.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on
Jan 12, 2009 12:49 PM CST
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So who besides myself...
have been sort of hoping this kind of event would happen with Young, allowing us to dump that ridiculous contract?
I can’t be the only one..
by cmkelly29 on
Jan 12, 2009 10:33 AM CST
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It allows the Rangers to dump it
but I don’t see how you find a buyer. As one of the press clippings pointed out, that is a bad, bad contract. I seriously doubt anyone would take MY off the Rangers hands unless we gave them money to take it.
Get off my lawn.
by DJCahill on
Jan 12, 2009 10:38 AM CST
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I agree...
it’s going to be a problem finding someone willing to take on that albatross. It’s just nice to know the front office is at least actively trying to move it.
by cmkelly29 on
Jan 12, 2009 10:42 AM CST
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Or the Rangers could take back another team's bad contract
Someone like Lugo from Boston maybe?
by jcir454 on
Jan 12, 2009 10:50 AM CST
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Luis Castillo.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 10:55 AM CST
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Stop saying that.
If JD traded Young for Castillo he will be fired. If things got that desperate Young for Andruw Jones would be a much preferable route.
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on
Jan 12, 2009 11:00 AM CST
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Why? Same money, right? 18mm? And Castillo might be able to play 3rd for a year or two as a stopgap.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 11:09 AM CST
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It ate my, "But he'd be epically horrible there, of course".
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 11:10 AM CST
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i thought he could only barely play 2b?
Scout: He was a first-round pick right? Got a huge bonus?
KG: Oh yeah.
Scout: Well, he spent a lot of it on milkshakes.
by knockoutking on
Jan 12, 2009 12:09 PM CST
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Jones is off the books next year
and Castillo is in 2011. I’d think that would be a factor. Then at how it will play in the media. At least with Jones you could say that “he might recapture his swing in the BPIA,” Castillo would be “they traded Young for a 2b, what a terrible move.”
"Come on man you have to admit the average guy in a baseball clubhouse...... is relatively a douchebag." BGL.
by sprite on
Jan 12, 2009 11:20 AM CST
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Personally I'd think they'd both get a total beating in the media, but Castillo can be off the books whenever we like, too, just by cutting him.
They’re both owed about 18mm.
I’d do Andruw Jones for FFace, too.
They’re basically the same exact deal, imo.
18mm worth of garbage we don’t want so that someone takes our horrible little whiny pussy off our hands.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 11:23 AM CST
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Castillo is
a secondbaseman.
Mitch Moreland - Rangers 2009 Minor League Player of the Year
by RangerMad on
Jan 12, 2009 12:08 PM CST
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He's also about 60mm cheaper than FFace over the next 5 years.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 12:15 PM CST
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Tha's probably how it happens
And I’m fine with it as long as the contract coming back isn’t particularly long.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on
Jan 12, 2009 10:59 AM CST
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I think you are over estimating how untouchable Young is
Teams take on bad contracts all the time for players like Young. Remember, outside of the stat bubble that most of us live in, Michael Young is perceived as one of the top 20 or so players in the game. He won the gold glove because a plurality of AL managers value his defense more than anyone else in the league. He got on the all-star team because a plurality of players value his leadership (ha!) and skills as a SS. Perception dictates value in markets.
Lets say you are a team who needs to get your fan base behind you, so you want to acquire a premium brand player at a position of need to show that you are doing something (i.e., Twins). Or a team whose manager is a little psycho and loves Michael Young with a GM who is a little unconventional (i.e., White Sox). Or a divisional rival with too much money who sees an opportunity to stick it to a rival (i.e., Angels) Sure $16 million a year is stupid – but its Michael Young! He’s almost as good as Jeter who is making what, $22 million a year or something?
Overpaid – of course he is. But completely untradeable – I doubt it.
by JBImaknee on
Jan 12, 2009 11:07 AM CST
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What I think folks don't understand
he is being paid as the 12th highest paid position player in MLB. That’s superstar territory.
I really doubt the market will treat him like a “you’d pay to see him play” superstar. I don’t think that contract gets picked up by anybody.
I’d love to be proven wrong though.
Get off my lawn.
by DJCahill on
Jan 12, 2009 11:45 AM CST
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yeah
if we put him on waivers, no way he gets claimed
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on
Jan 12, 2009 11:48 AM CST
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I hope it doesn't come to that.
It’s ugly enough as it is. Manny probably needed that, as he’s not all that bright. But, Young can figure it out without going through it.
JD will probably get back to Young on the type of trade that could be accomplished and let him know that it isn’t in the interest of the Rangers to do any of them. That should be enough of a wake-up call for Young.
Go Rangers!
by rooster on
Jan 12, 2009 11:57 AM CST
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12th highest paid position player
is not the same as being considered the 12th best player, given that most position players are still under team control. My argument is that there are some people out there who would consider Young, with his resume and reputation, to be in the top 25 position players in the league. All you need are one or two GMs who think that way and you can trade him.
I know that he is not that he’s worth that contract, or that it’d be easy to find a buyer. But I do think it is possible to get a team to pick up 70-80% of his contract (or 100% with a salary dump coming back) and return a decent (though not great) player in return.
by JBImaknee on
Jan 12, 2009 11:55 AM CST
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12th highest paid player
better be someone folks pay to see. I doubt there are many folks around the league who are buying tickets to see Michael Young. For that kind of money, he needs to put butts in seats and sell merchandise.
Get off my lawn.
by DJCahill on
Jan 12, 2009 1:33 PM CST
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Seriously?
You read this blog right? I mean, the overwhelming majority of posters on here have been praying for something like this for some time.
I don’t know what would make you think you’re the only one…
by Anonymous New Guy on
Jan 12, 2009 10:53 AM CST
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MLBTR on possible suitors
Except, not really…
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/01/evaluating-mich.html
White Sox are the ones that make sense, and that Dye/Poreda package is palatable in terms of salary relief, though probably not a real possibility.
Go Strangers.
by hightowersmith on
Jan 12, 2009 10:36 AM CST
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forget about the pitcher
but I would take back Betemit as a young 3B to go with Dye.
by clark on
Jan 12, 2009 10:40 AM CST
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Betemit = Ugh.
He’s not that young, and he’s not good.
If thy want Young for Dye, just take the salary relief and sign someone off FA. (Crede, Councel, Wiggington, Ensberg, Nomar, whoever the hell is still out there…)
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 10:58 AM CST
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The question is
Can you get Dye for Young straight up?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on
Jan 12, 2009 11:00 AM CST
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My guess? Hells to the no.
Young is a horrible little whiny bitch with a staggeringly huge long term contract who’s a career .279/.323/.404 hitter away from the BPiA.
He’s gotta be one of the most untradeable players in the game right now.
Plus he’s a little whiny pussy who throws hissy fits whenever he’s asked to do something that doesn’t fit in with his perception of who he is as a “man”.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
by thedirkatron on
Jan 12, 2009 11:13 AM CST
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The Sox need a CF
Young and Borbon for Dye, Linebrink, and little Danks.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract


