Rickey Henderson, Jim Rice elected to the HOF
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 12, 2009 1:16 PM CST
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PrintAs expected, Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice have been elected to the Hall of Fame.
Andre Dawson got 67%, Bert Blyleven 63%, and no one else got over 50%.
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Boo, Jim Rice.
Boo.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
The Hawk & Blyleven
got f’ed…yet again.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Honestly,
I think now that Rice got it, Dawson will end up getting in.
by Michael Cave on Jan 12, 2009 1:21 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, but Vet Commitee.
Bummer that.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
Wasnt this
only his 8th time on the ballot? Doesnt he have until his 15th?
by Michael Cave on Jan 12, 2009 1:27 PM CST up reply actions
Oops. I misread.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
this has probably been answered before
but why is it that that some members of the BBWAA cant get their head out of their ass to duly recognize no doubt hall-of-famers. I seem to recall Seaver was the highest ever vote getter and he still only got like 99. The fact that 6 of the BBWAA dont think Rickey Henderson is a hall-of-famer just seems absurd to me. EG’s Pedroia omission looks sensible compared to that sort of negligence.
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 12, 2009 1:30 PM CST reply actions
okay i guess the per cent symbol isnt recognized but imagine one after the numbers 99 and 6*
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 12, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions
%s
Gwynn-97.6
Ripken-98.5
Seaver-98.8
Catchall answer? They are a bunch of old codgers, with a limitless amount of pompousness as to their import and impact on the earth.
"...my balls are really like a veiny flesh color" blueballlefty on Jun 4, 2008 7:44 PM EDT
"you gonna lose your horse. seriously." FX2
Yes we can! November 04, 2008
I agree
Rickey Henderson is a no doubter. No matter if you liked him as a person or not he was a dominant force at the top of the lineup. Everyone should have included him. Id like to hear an argument from any of the writers that didnt vote him in. One that doesnt involve NO ONE deserves to be on all the ballots.
by Michael Cave on Jan 12, 2009 1:35 PM CST up reply actions
Mark McGwire at 21.9%...
Wow the alleged steroid players should be scared. Would the BBWAA really have the balls to keep Bonds and Palmeiro out? Seems with how they are treating McGwire the answer would be yes.
Agreed.
McGwire has gone from “almost assuredly” to “maybe.”
Palmeiro has gone from “maybe” to “definitely not.”
Bonds will be the interesting one, considering that he was a no-doubt, slam-dunk first ballot HOFer pre-steroids. Can Barry Bonds, the most dominant hitter (and, arguably, the most dominant player) of a generation, really be kept out of the HOF?
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
That is going to be something that
will be very interesting to follow. What about Sosa (alleged use as well)? The “steroid era” guys are going to start coming up for election and the BBWAA seems to be making a point with McGwire.
by Michael Cave on Jan 12, 2009 1:45 PM CST up reply actions
Sosa is lucky
he put off retirement for a while, which will allow some of the angst to thaw. McGwire is hurt by being the first in line.
Bonds
could’ve given Henderson a run for greatest leadoff hitter ever. Except his power necessitated a move down in the order. Greatest player I’ve ever seen(pre-steroids), yet they’ll keep him out to prove their power and self-righteousness. A bunch of sheep jumping on the poster boy, while some of their favorites were probably doing the same thing.
You touched
on one issue I have. The “steroid era” is tough to quantify. Who was doing them and when? Were they competing against peers that were doing them as well?
by Michael Cave on Jan 12, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions
Exactly
I remember Kurkijan had a stat once that during a 5 year period(I believe ‘00-’04), Bonds was 1st in OPS, Helton was 2nd, and the difference between the two was equal to the difference between Helton and whoever was 111th. That’s utter dominance in an era when we know plenty were doing ’roids. But they got their poster boys. His dominance made him stand out. Not to mention he was a HOFer before 2000.
? mark?
Really? 3020 hits with 569 HRs. OPS + of 132. I think he was a lock but not so much now.
by Michael Cave on Jan 12, 2009 1:38 PM CST up reply actions
Not even close
That type of power with 3000 hits and good defense for most of his career. He was a no doubter before the steroids scandal.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
500 HRs and 3000 Hits
pretty much would have made it a rubber stamp. Just not that many players who can make that claim, and counting numbers mean a bunch with voters, traditionally.
Get off my lawn.
I don't think he was a '?'
His numbers are so big that he would have been a shoe-in. He arguably has a better classic HOF resume than McGwire does (more milestones reached)
Specific incidents aside, I think it is ominous sign for all the sluggers of the ‘90s. The problem is simply that the big numbers don’t have the same meaning as they once did. You can’t say “Palmeiro, Bonds and McGwire don’t get in because of steroids, but Bagwell and Thomas (for example) do because they were never directly accused” Because frankly, we don’t know which of those guys were on them and which were off.
I think you have to just discount these guys numbers by some value (HRs by 25, Hits by 10, etc):
Is Palmeiro a HOFer with 2500 hits and 400 homers? – maybe, maybe not
Is McGwire with 450 homers (and only 1500 hits)? – probably not
Is Bonds with 600 homers and 2500 hits? – yes
Is Sosa with 450 homers and 2000 hits? – iffy.
interesting
what about for pitchers suspected of using? is there some formula youd suggest to discount their accomplishments?
by Smoakin in the Boys Room on Jan 12, 2009 1:57 PM CST up reply actions
well
Think about what counting stats are preferentially affected by strength – K’s come to mind first. Wins would be secondary (longevity, durability in games, etc). Something like ERA (like OBP) will be affected by steroids, but not all players equally
I’d say K’s and HR’s are similar – 25% deduction for the ‘90s
W’s and Hits aren’t that related, but I’d give both a 10% deduction
Some names:
Clemens: 3400Ks & 300 W’s – like Bonds, still an HOFer regardless
Randy Johnson: 3400K’s & 270 W’s – probably still in, given all his Cy Youngs.
Curt Schilling: 2400 K’s & 190 W’s – no. He’s a borderline yes now who’d be an obvious no after the deduction.
Pedro: 2400 K’s & 200 W’s – maybe – the counting stats don’t help him anymore, but the domination he had may be sufficient.
This also preserves guys like Maddux and Glavine, whose resume’s aren’t based on K’s but rather their finesse dominance.
Pitching is harder since guys with flashes of brilliance (i.e., Koufax, Pedro) get rewarded along with career guys (Nolan). This method is really only good at discounting guys whose career resume’s may have been affected by roids, but one could argue those are the guys who benefited the most.
Alas, poor Bert
I guess nobody who votes on the HOF ballot loves to fart. 
This man should be in the Hall for that T-Shirt alone.
On behalf of Bert, to the BWAA:
Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?
Fucking Jim Rice.
The HOF is a joke.
The 40 Trumps All!!!
"You're gonna regret this the rest of your life. Both seconds of it." -Sylvester Stallone as John Spartan, A.K.A, "The Demolition Man", right before he beats a guy to death with a stick.
I can't believe I live in a world...
…where Jim Rice is a HOFer and Tim Raines can’t even get named on 1/4 of the ballots.
Physician: Primum non nocere
Batter: First, make no out
John Hart filling on Hot Stove
MLBtv, and they’re talking Young.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
John Hart on Elvis Andrus
“It might be a year early, were not sure”
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
seems like
bert is on pace to get in in about 3 years.
2008 63
2007 47.7
2006 53.3
2005 40.8
2004 35.4
2003 29.2
2002 26.3
2001 23.5
2000 17.4
1999 14.1
1998 17.5
after dropping about about 5 1/2% bert’s at an alltime high. go bert go
Obama vs Palin in 2012. bring her on!
Jime Rice's baseballreference page
"Congratulations, Boston. You couldn’t win a title, so you bought one – just like the Yanks. Open the wallet for Curt, Keith, and Johnny – end 86 years of frustration. 175M reasons never to whine about NYY. "
heh.
the preceding post was a great success.
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