Jim Reeves confuses me
From a blog post by Jim Reeves this morning:
OK, I think we've all pretty much agreed that the Rangers bungled the Michael Young situation badly. Jon Daniels and Ron Washington (and I've been told he said almost nothing) can't walk out of that meeting with Young feeling as he did.
We do? We all agree the Rangers bungled the situation badly?
According to Reeves in this morning's column, the correct way to handle the situation would have been to beg Young to move to third base, and when he said no, come up with something else.
Presumably that would involve trading Elvis Andrus for whatever you could get for him, because if Young doesn't want to move off of shortstop, and you aren't going to make him, then there's no point in having Andrus in the organization.
So, here's what I don't get...how could Daniels and Washington have walked out of that meeting with Young feeling happy?
I find the suggestions that the problem wasn't with the fact that they wanted Young to move, but with the fact that they told him he was moving instead of asking him to move, a bit disingenuous. We are supposed to believe that Young is so mad at being told he was going to move to third base that he demanded a trade, but if the g.m. and manager had just politely asked, he would have been fine and would have agreed with it?
That's crap.
So what was supposed to happen? How should they have handled the situation? Just accepted that Young is going to be at shortstop forever more? Punt it until spring training? Hope that Young decided, on his own, that he should switch positions?
I don't get it. The Rangers may well have bungled the situation -- I don't know. But I'm not quite sure how it is those on the outside believe the situation could better have been handled, other than simply having management abdicate responsibility for the decision and let Young do what he wanted to do.
Which, I guess, is what Reeves, Galloway, etc. want. After years of criticizing the Rangers for letting the players run the show, now the problem is that a player should be allowed to decide whether he's going to change positions or not.
Although I wish I could go find the old columns from a few years ago, when the Cowboys switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4 and wanted Greg Ellis to move to OLB. Because I don't remember nearly as much criticism of Bill Parcells & Co. from the sports media, and I remember a hell of a lot more criticism of a guy who was viewed as the ultimate team player at Valley Ranch being selfish and not making a position switch for the good of the team.
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Comments
plus plus
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Jan 13, 2009 4:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nice.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 4:56 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Everyone is entitled to think what they want.
But it is absolutely absurd to put all the blame on one party; to me, it’s clear that both Michael Young and the Texas Rangers could have handled this in a better way.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on Jan 13, 2009 4:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How could the Rangers have handled it better?
by JBImaknee on Jan 13, 2009 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's my question
And the answer better not include begging or groveling.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 13, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can only assume that the root of this problem is they assumed Michael would just go along with their plan and ultimately wasn't about it.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He had already made it clear
that he was not moving …….. what choice id the Rangers have, MY drew the line in the sand.
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This recalls the point I made today on Bob and Dan.
We all agree that the contract has magnified the stupidity of this debacle.
This is all about the ballclub transitioning from a “win-now” aggressive hierarchy to the Tampa template… reduce payroll, cheap home-grown talent… no stupid contracts.
It just so happens that Young was given his money when the team was still in “win-now” mode. If not for that contract, Young probably doesn’t become the face of the franchise or have this much leverage.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He got that contract last year
If that’s how they behave in win-now mode…I seem to recall that the org. started the go young rhetoric last year, which makes that contract make even less sense. Of course, my memory could be faulty
Free Frank Catalanotto
by egriffey on Jan 13, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
March 1st 2007
The Rangers had just traded for McCarthy.
The Rangers signed Kenny Lofton.
The Rangers signed Eric Gagne.
The Rangers signed Sammy Sosa.
Hank Blalock was healthy.
Teixeira and Kinsler.
I’d say that was ‘win-now’ mode.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 10:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Please,
No.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 5:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure, because I wasn't there.
But I’m sure that there could have been a better dialogue between Young and the Rangers. I’d bet (again, this is pure speculation) that there was a way to at least soften the blow to Young.
I think that’s my point, though: without knowing all the facts (and it appears that we will never know), it’s not fair to either party to put all the blame on one side.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on Jan 13, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
See, this is a problem.
Lots of people are wanting to be critical of JD here and I can’t figure this out. It looks like enough of us have such affection for Young that we just can’t believe he’s being the unilateral ass in this mess. Unfortunately for those of us that love Michael Young, all the evidence we’ve seen points to him being a pouty jerk while JD looks very professional. Until somebody can actually cite something legitimate the Rangers could have done in their delivery which would result in Young moving to 3rd and not making an ass out of himself, JD is blameless.
by Athos on Jan 13, 2009 5:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And I can totally, 100% see where you are coming from.
But while I really want to simply blame MY for being a backstabbing asshole, I know that it is very, very rarely that simple.
Ugh. This whole situation just sucks. While I think he’s being selfish, I can understand MY’s point of view (sort of). And while I think he’s being very professional, I can’t completely exonerate JD without knowing all of the facts.
All that being said…my opinion of Michael Young has diminished significantly, while my opinion of JD (a good one) remains unchanged.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on Jan 13, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Young seems to feel blindsided,
but to me he just looks blind if he missed the nearly incessant clues about this move coming ever since Andrus was acquired. He’s been asked about it by media before, so he certainly was aware of it. It just makes him seem in denial or something.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 13, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he had convinced himself it wasn't going to happen
especially after being an All-Star (again) and winning a gold glove. He probably assumed that the Rangers were going to try to trade Andrus in a big deal for a starting pitcher. It probably never entered his mind as a realistic possibility.
Given that, I can understand some frustration with the Rangers management in not keeping their long-term guys (Young, Kinsler, Hamilton) filled in on the lower levels of the organization. If Young was really aware of how good Andrus is, and Hamilton aware of Borbon, Davis aware of Smoak, and Kinsler aware of Marcus Lemon (just kidding), maybe these sorts of conflicts can be somewhat addressed earlier, if not averted at least not a surprise. One can argue that the Laird/Salty controversy is related to this as well. Someone needs to teach these guys the reality of the game (probably a job for the manager?)
by JBImaknee on Jan 13, 2009 5:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Given that, I can understand some frustration with the Rangers management in not keeping their long-term guys (Young, Kinsler, Hamilton) filled in on the lower levels of the organization.
after reading the kinsler stuff about the minor league system i dont think any of them give a shit about those kids.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Jan 13, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on what
Ian said on the radio, the players were apparently in denial.
by Back Door Yakker on Jan 13, 2009 9:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree with athos
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 5:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a cop-out
I’m all for weighing different people’s sides of a story. But the evidence is pretty one-sided here. From everything we know, Young is the one who is acting disproportionately: he demanded to be traded. He is the one with inflammatory quotes in the media.
I find it hard to believe that this could have all been averted if the Rangers had brought him some donuts and got on their knees begging.
Yeah, there are always two sides of a story. But pretty much 100% of the evidence we have is that Young has blown this way out of proportion. Saying that “I’m sure JD did something wrong too” just to be nice to MY is too flimsy and not fair to the Rangers.
by JBImaknee on Jan 13, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know what you're saying.
And I know it’s kind of a cop-out. I’ll admit it.
I guess I’m just not of the opinion that things like this can be this cut-and-dry, black-and-white, good-and-bad.
But I can’t argue with you when you say it’s a cop-out to withhold judgment when seemingly all the evidence points to MY being an asshole. That’s absolutely valid.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on Jan 13, 2009 5:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
All of our impressions of Michael Young have been shattered in the past 48 hours, and its easier to think that maybe, somehow, this isn’t his fault and is one big misunderstanding.
by JBImaknee on Jan 13, 2009 5:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not strictly good and bad
The Rangers are being blamed for signing a stupid contract. MY is being blamed for crying like a 10 year old and demanding to take his ball and go home.
by Back Door Yakker on Jan 13, 2009 9:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
"how could the Rangers have handled it better?"
They probably couldn’t have handled this situation better, but with a little foresight, they never would have been in this situation in the first place.
JD certainly made a mistake, but he made it a couple years ago, not in the last couple months.
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on Jan 13, 2009 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The team had a different organizational philosophy back then.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Should've hired Aristotle as a consultant
by Telegraph on Jan 13, 2009 7:35 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Or just face the music, stroke his ego, and let him know that his services would be better appreciated in a different context that could benefit both himself and the ballclub.
Which is what the Rangers have done.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 7:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know what's going on, but he wasn't even slightly drunk when they asked him to switch
It’s all because that nobody on the management had the guts; none of them could hold their own.
by Telegraph on Jan 13, 2009 7:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All I've heard is that they had an hour-long dinner and decided to drop the ball at the last minute.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there is your problem
They made him go to bed crying. If somebody ever made you go to bed crying, are you gonna be nice to them the next day?
A smart GM would have told him that during breakfast.
by Telegraph on Jan 13, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So has Daniels been exposed as a kid who just plays with his toys and doesn't really take care of them?
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 8:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No
JD has been exposed as a kid who trades his remote-controlled helicopters for paper airplanes, then fails to consider the feelings of the paper airplane when he refolded it into a hat.
by Telegraph on Jan 13, 2009 8:22 PM CST up reply actions 7 recs
+1
Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?
by lonestarJon on Jan 13, 2009 8:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just so you know, I'm on your side.
I actually hate every Ranger except Marlon.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 8:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
holy crap
somebody gave me a rec on this
by Telegraph on Jan 13, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not worthy
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on Jan 13, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
plus Shaq was busy at his other gig
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on Jan 13, 2009 8:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Reeves is a moron
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jan 13, 2009 4:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Galloway is a bigger moron when it comes to the Texas Rangers
and yesterday Matt Mosely took him to school about MY.
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on Jan 13, 2009 5:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Galloway is a bigger moron when it comes to
the Texas Rangers everything.
by MeanMr.Mustard on Jan 13, 2009 6:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?
by lonestarJon on Jan 13, 2009 5:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand Young being upset
but that does not in any way equal Rangers management bungling. It equals Young being prideful, perhaps selfish. It equals the organization being in a tough situation with a declining player. The organization bungled the contract extension, not asking Young to change positions.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 13, 2009 4:59 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
well said
This entire situation is just ugly. Im pissed at Young for not sucking up his pride and just doing what he is told and especially for running to the media to cry about it. However, we all have seen how Tim Hicks runs shit around here and probably all agree that its pretty messed up and way inconsistent. Im a huge fan of JD (but hate TH) and can also see why Young is frustrated. As Mr. BlueBallLefty put it to me, if my boss came to me and told my I was going to be cleaning toilets from now on, then I would quit. I would loose my contract and would be out looking for a job, and sure, i would be pissed. But thats the reality of it. Its a job and Im an employee, just like FOTF is an employee.
Oh yeah, i wish i could kick Gallodouch in the nuts so hard that he chocked on them!!
by thad728 on Jan 13, 2009 5:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How do you chock on your nuts
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, first you have to take some yoga classes
by Telegraph on Jan 13, 2009 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
now THIS is worthy of a rec
"I see their [Angels] rotation as John Lackey and a bunch of decent starters." - AJM
by tricer on Jan 13, 2009 8:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactamundo
Adam, you are 100% correct. Reading this drivel from one of our local columnists helps me to understand why newspapers are dying out
by BEW on Jan 13, 2009 5:00 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
And yet
It’s the ST that will continue to cover the Rangers.
God, 2009 is going to suck from the standpoint of Rangers media coverage… between the ST and TR Sullivan, we’re all going to need galoshes to wade through the crap.
Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?
by lonestarJon on Jan 13, 2009 5:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One potential good thing
Even though I’m sure Reeves won’t be carried on DMN (Tim Cowlishaw & co can carry their own weight in poorly devised, no logic Rangesr editorials), maybe his joke of a history writing about the Rangers will be brought more to light.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
All the Rangers have to do is make a run at the playoffs with a credible pitching staff and all will be well in Ranger-Reporter World*.
- = also encompasses general Rangers public who get their news from the TV and newspaper media.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 5:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the bad thing about that
Reeves is the one we are stuck with now.
"Was this really necsarry?" - cowpoke/hurler hurley
by trza on Jan 13, 2009 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Perfect analogy.
Greg Ellis.
Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.
by Chase Irwin on Jan 13, 2009 5:02 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
or Wade Phillips
when Jerry fires him and asks him to stay on as D-Cor……….
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Jan 13, 2009 7:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that the earlier comment from Jim Reeves should
go down in infamy as one of the most absurd things ever printed by the FWST – a newspaper that Randy Galloway writes for, no less:
There’s only one way Daniels and the Rangers could approach Young if they had come to the conclusion that the team would be better if he moved to third and Andrus played short.
On their knees. Groveling. Begging. Pleading.
You ask Michael Young if he’d move for the sake of the team. You don’t tell him he’s moving. And if you ask and he says no, you move on to Plan B.
As time goes on, I think Reeves will look like more and more of a joke for writing this. “On their knees. Groveling. Begging. Pleading.” Unbelievable. He needs to be called out every which way, and lots more people need to send him emails for that embarrassing joke of a comment. He is the biggest embarrassment to have come forward in this whole situation. I’m embarrassed to have someone that ignorant and biased representing my area newspaper. What a joke of a “media” member.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 5:03 PM CST reply actions 4 recs
And last night
Reeves was on his knees, groveling, begging, pleading to suck MY’s dick.
"And the Rangers looking to win it! The Rangers have won it!"
-- Josh Lewin, Sept 23, 2004
by Agreen07 on Jan 13, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like you, I resent the idea
that just because Young was a team player in 2004 by moving he should be deferred to in such an organization-altering way that so deeply affects the team’s long term plans for success. Does he want to win or not? In what universe does an employer of any kind beg an employee for anything?
Get over your pride Young, and be the selfless leader you’re purported to be. Get over your reflexive Ranger management bashing media.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 13, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm ready to shift
some of the focus onto the folks in the local media who are supporting Young. It’s pretty clear that he’s in the wrong, as Olney and others have illustrated. People like Galloway and Reeves need to be put under the light. Their worthiness to even have the space to comment on this stuff needs to start to be called into question. A computerized column generator could write Reeves’ editorials, and the only real insight these guys provide any more is on who their personal favorites are. If it’s important to you to know who has earned the right to be a personal buddy of Galloway, Reeves, etc., by all means read their columns. If not, there is absolutely no point.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If it bugs you that much, you should call in to Galloway's show and tell him how you feel.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 5:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That serves no purpose
I’ll email each of them, though. I don’t buy either of their papers any more, so they don’t have much reason to care what I think, though.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 5:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
People get so upset with the sports media here because they think they're giving the DFW sports fans the wrong information.
The idea is that we’d all like fewer Josey Wales in this world.
But the truth of the matter is, I don’t think we should be caring for what the general sports public thinks. We know what is right for this team, and as long as a few of us out there know the truth, that is what will set us free.
We all know why attendance is down. We’re at the point now where winning where cure everything.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 5:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a pipedream to hope that casual fans
which, of course, are the majority, will be as aware of details as we are. But it is not a pipedream and far from unreasonable to expect the sportswriters — who, after all, are paid to follow the damn teams full time — should know a little better.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 13, 2009 5:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes I think they do know, but it's negativity that sells.
![]()
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 5:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Any news
Is good news.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except most of the Rangers news for the better part of 9 years has been, well, bad.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 5:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
IMO, Evan Grant has been pretty good overall.
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Even Galloway isn’t THAT much of a condescending douchebag. Over-the-top tirades sell, and columnists/talk show hosts know it. It just sucks for those of us tired of the shtick.
by MeanMr.Mustard on Jan 13, 2009 6:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
do they sell though?
this isnt the same target market is was 20 years ago, i think thats half the problem the newspapers and media in general arent getting.
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Jan 13, 2009 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
When you look over the DFW sports landscape for the better part of this decade, there's been a ton of disappointment.
People are thirsty for good news.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I just know quite a few people who don’t even know that there is another viewpoint on some of these things but are reasonable enough that if they saw it presented fairly would be more likely to come to a correct conclusion. When it comes to the Rangers in general, even people I’m close to who respect my opinion won’t listen to me that they have a chance to put something good together, so I don’t expect most people to buy that. But on specific cases, I just wish there were a prominent voice of reason out there, rather than 100% talking head buffoons.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 5:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The fans in Dallas will be getting their Rangers news from the Star-Telegram, but I seriously doubt they'll be including Galloway or Reeves' articles in their Sunday Sports Day.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The reason some people (especially in here) would like fewer
Josey Wales in this world is because I tell you the hard core truth about our favorite little team you don’t wanna hear. It really, really pisses people off that I am right many more times than I am wrong. I am anything but the “general sports public.”
Attendance is down to it’s lowest levels in 20 years because this fan base has summarily rejected the teams JD has put together, they don’t like the direction of the team and they don’t like the way that Tom Hicks conducts business.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
For christ's sake
Is there anything you know about the Rangers other than attendance? The first 6 times you mentioned that, it was a little interesting. Now you’ve become more repetative than usual.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 13, 2009 6:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I was responding to "oc" above
and he referenced attendance and why it is down as much as it is.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I am aware of why attendance is down, I don't need you to repeat what I say maggot.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
Why do you believe attendance is down, oc?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool.
Isn’t it time for you to go smoke out?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you need to go
polish up the pledge pin or make a nice drive out to The Strip, gardener?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you need to go
Think of some better “Don’t you need to” lines?
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
In my day it would have been Communism
I miss that !!!
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Dear Jim Reeves,
Your columns suck and you look like a sea lion that washed ashore dead.
Yours sincerely,
Z
by LiamP on Jan 13, 2009 5:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I know it won't happen
but they need to be looked at by consumers just as the Rangers are looked at by consumers. Their reputations should go in the tank over this, particularly Reeves’.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that really
any different than the media at large? It’s generally comprised of a bunch of stuffed shirts, none of whom are held accountable for their drivel.
by Back Door Yakker on Jan 13, 2009 9:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
this is the same media that is absolutely dumbfounded that it is dying
they cant figure out why…
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Jan 13, 2009 7:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
More from the only other Ranger fan at Baseball Fever.
Exactly. You proved my point. Recent moves. You think JD isn’t taking Ryan’s advice. I guarantee you Nolan is running that whole front office. JD is a nutcase.
I would say this might be Josey Whales, but this guy is for real, I’m pretty certain. This is in reference to the Teixeira trade, which he’s also already said was only good because we got rid of Teixeira.
by philkid3 on Jan 13, 2009 5:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
IF THERE WAS ANYTIME to make a run at the pennant, it’d be after the Angels lose Teixeira and K-Rod. When the A’s are in a rebuilding process and are getting the missing pieces together. When the Mariners have unused talent and damaged goods. Now would be a great time to maybe make a possible attempt to get the pennant. It would be amazing if the Rangers could of won in 2008, the year JD told everyone we would be contenders.
And making Andrus the starting SS in 2009 is not the way to go. I can tell you one thing, JD did little this off season and I know Hicks is getting on him and now he has to cover his ass again. I hope this comes and bites him in the butt. I hope this move is the downfall of JD.
It sucks, because Baseball Fever is a great site, but apparently this is all I have in terms of another Rangers fan.
by philkid3 on Jan 13, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
OT. Rangers invite six more to spring training.
The Rangers announced that it has invited six minor leaguers to major league spring training: pitchers Neftali Feliz and Derek Holland, infielders Elvis Andrus and Justin Smoak and catchers Manny Pina and Kevin Richardson.
For the record, the Rangers had already decided this and are announcing it today. The timing of inviting Andrus and announcing it today has nothing to do with the Young news getting leaked the last few days.
The Rangers now have 12 official non-roster invitees to spring training. The first workout is scheduled for Feb. 15 for pitchers and catchers.
"Fuck Michael Young" -Coolaid
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 13, 2009 5:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
x
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/01/rangers-invite-six-to-spring-training.html
"Fuck Michael Young" -Coolaid
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 13, 2009 5:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did the Rangers ask MY if it was okay to invite Andrus to camp?
I hear that Milly is worried about Holland and Feliz maybe becoming an ace one day. We should make sure that he’s cool with them playing in the major league facility.
by JBImaknee on Jan 13, 2009 5:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Manny Pina is interesting.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
interesting...
i’d say it’s a head scratcher.
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Jan 13, 2009 9:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
catchers needed
You do need a certain number of catcher for ST. Whether they are NRIs or called over from minor league camp doesn’t really matter. Doesn’t minor league camp start after ST starts?
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Jan 13, 2009 9:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
As I said in the other thread
Bad management is asking someone to do something when only one answer is acceptable. You think things are bad now, imagine if they asked, Young said no, and the team moved him anyway.
If you’ve decided on a course of action, take it.
by JBImaknee on Jan 13, 2009 5:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
It’s amazing to me that people cite the way they handled Young as bad management. I’m not sure if those people know a thing about personnel management.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 5:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They don't, but they do harbor
fantasies of their bosses begging and groveling and being idolized like Young just because of their good face qualities.
G G G E-flat_______ F F F D__________....
by t ball on Jan 13, 2009 5:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I can provide a personal example:
A little over a year ago, I changed jobs within my company, moving from the QA position that I’d been in for four years to a team lead position. After six months, my boss asked me to move back to QA. To be honest, the team lead position wasn’t a good fit for me, but I’d given it a shot because I thought it would help me develop some skills that I needed to strengthen.
My boss didn’t beg, grovel, or plead- she just pointed out that I’d done a good job in my old position, and that she thought it was probably a better fit for me than the new one. It wasn’t a demand, per se, but I knew what the choices were, and so I took my old position back. Fortunately, I got to keep the pay raise I’d received six months earlier.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Jan 13, 2009 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Who really cares about this now?
You guys must be forgetting American Idol is on tonight? HELLLLLO.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
by iorange555 on Jan 13, 2009 5:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Idol
That show has been played out a few times too many. Not that I ever liked it at all, but c’mon… how many times will we go through that whole ordeal?
Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?
by lonestarJon on Jan 13, 2009 5:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never gave up on the rangers.
I’m sticking with my idol too.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
by iorange555 on Jan 13, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Idol show as a whole is a beating
But the first few weeks when they show all the failures is greatness
by BEW on Jan 13, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
After reading Reeves and Gramps
I am really going to miss Evan Grant….love him or hate him, at least he makes an attempt at reason (95% of the time).
Freddie King rules faces.
by Ryin A on Jan 13, 2009 5:29 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The DFW reporters just parrot what the casual Rangers fan wants to hear
It seems that most disinterested writers/reporters are coming down against MY’s actions, but not the writers in Texas. This isn’t a hard a fast rule. Here’s the observation from walkoffwalk, just a couple guys who write about baseball:
HOW badly has Michael Young messed up with his actions of the past couple days. His pouting has only focused a harsher light on the fact that his skills are in decline and he’s going to be making waaaay too much money for the next 4 years. How much longer does Jon Daniels have in Arlington anyway? That organization is a mess.
I don’t agree, but it is a disinterested observation.
Yesterday I was listening to MLB Homplate. The host (wish I knew who) was interviewing someone who knew a little about Andrus. The host suspected that this might be a ploy to get out of MY’s contract, while the interviewee didn’t buy off on it and said Andrus has the possibility of being a special defensive SS. But of course, that’s talk radio with the point being discussion/disagreement.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 13, 2009 5:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Nobody gives a shit about weddings and birthdays, they like talking about divorces and AIDS.
by oc on Jan 13, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I never thought of it that way, interesting.
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
then you must
have missed all the recent pub regarding Brady and Gisele :-)
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Jan 13, 2009 8:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Extra point!
Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.
by Chase Irwin on Jan 13, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ive seen many such ranger organization bashing comments
whats funny to me is these are the same people who say all the rangers care about is offense and they will never succeed because of it. Now that they decide to forcefully improve defense at short and 3b for players with questionable offense at those positions… its a disaster!
the preceding post was a great success.
by DSheppard on Jan 13, 2009 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
OT: Anyone just see Steve Phillips on Sports Center?
by philkid3 on Jan 13, 2009 5:39 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
No, what about him?
"Fuck Michael Young" -Coolaid
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 13, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He said that Tim Raines isn't a Hall of Famer because he doesn't pass the gut check.
Brian Kenny brought up OBP, and Steve Phillips dismissed the value of OBP because Brian Giles is a career .404. Kenny said it’s a different era, Phillips said era doesn’t matter for OBP because a walk is a walk.
Kenny incredulously told him that’s not true and looked like he was unhappy to even be in the same room as the retarded kid. It went on from there and Kenny made him look idiotic.
by philkid3 on Jan 13, 2009 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
kenny and phillips go back and forth a lot on
Kellerman’s radio show. I linked one podcast here when they were all discussing if Adam Dunn was good or not…
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Jan 13, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it doesn't take much for Steve Phillips to look idiotic
"Fuck Michael Young" -Coolaid
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 13, 2009 5:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
One word.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
Brian Kenny just abused him.
But Phillips gets that alot on Kellerman’s show.
SP is an absolute joke.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Jan 13, 2009 5:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I hate Kellerman.
I wanted to strangle him daily on ATH.
Then I found out he’s a hxc sabermetrician and it made me want to cry. . .
by philkid3 on Jan 13, 2009 5:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
dont' judge him because of the way he was used on ESPN
judge him from his boxing analysis and his podcast…
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Jan 13, 2009 5:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kellerman
He’s a great boxing analyst.
And both he and Brian Kenny are fairly stathead-friendly, which is rare for TV media…
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Jan 13, 2009 5:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Kellerman is a sabermetric nut
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Jan 13, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I hate boxing.
So there’s no chance I’ll ever judge him on that.
by philkid3 on Jan 13, 2009 5:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
how about this?
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
by Longhorn on Jan 13, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
excellent, +72
I think that is as high as you can go
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 5:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Randy Galloway today:
OPS is a “geek” stat. OPS is “OBS” : all BS
He also thinks that getting a few pitchers in here would make Michael Young a better SS.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 5:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Also
“Do fans pay to see Jon Daniels at work or Michael Young at work?”
Dumbest man in America?
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 5:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
who cares if it's a geek stat?
it’s a winner’s stat too. Galloway can sit around and watch batting averages and ERA all day and those who know baseball will continue to know what a fraud he is.
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Jan 13, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Does he even know what ops is??
adding 2 numbers from the back of a baseball card is a geek stat?
"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." - Mitch Hedberg
by rentz on Jan 14, 2009 8:38 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry Jones v. JD - here's what I don't get
I’ve never looked at MLB.com’s comment section, but that combined with the comments sections of the online DFW newspapers indicate a vast dislike for JD among the more casual fan. However, I would have to say that most of the people here (who aren’t really casual fans) are OK with JD.
On the other hand, it seems like the serious Cowboys fans here aren’t huge fans of JJ (although it might be more split) but it seems (I might be wrong) that the casual fan likes JJ.
What gives? Is it just because the casual fan can’t/won’t look beyond winning% and playoff appearances? Or maybe my perception from 800 miles away is inaccurate.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 13, 2009 5:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think everyone dislikes jerry jones.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
by iorange555 on Jan 13, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Jerry
My mom’s about as casual a Cowboy fan as there is, and she can’t stand him…
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Jan 13, 2009 6:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I like his passion for winning
I don’t like his ego.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
not every owner has fired2 of the greatest coaches in NFL history though
so he’s got that goin for him…
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Jan 13, 2009 7:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thats a lot
of respect you just paid Barry Switzer……
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Jan 13, 2009 8:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
umm....
Jimmy Johnson.
Bill Parcells.
Tom Landry.
no where in that statement should the name Barry Switzer have appeared or been thought of.
by Hull Fan on Jan 14, 2009 1:33 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sorry
didn’t mean to sail one right over your head…….
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Jan 14, 2009 5:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I have always disliked JJ
JD and JJ are not comparable, one has class the other doesn’t.
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 6:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of the people in here
are big fans of both Jamey & Adam and they happen to be big fans of JD.
It’s human nature and basic psychology to not disagree with (for lack of a better word) leaders.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You should write a book.
Publish 50,000 copies then go some place where it’s really cold and people have no heat, then burn the books for them. Then maybe your thoughts would have a true meaning in life.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
by iorange555 on Jan 13, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not everybody is brave,
confident or quite frankly smart enough to speak their minds because they might be viewed as different.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you get that from High school musical?
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
by iorange555 on Jan 13, 2009 6:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
that line is better
than oc’s maze, iorange555.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
try working backwards
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 6:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I did
and I got red ink all over my computer screen, dammit.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 13, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
by iorange555 on Jan 13, 2009 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
carbureter cleaner will make your screen like new
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't that off the wall...
while AJM and Jamey aren’t my leaders by any stretch of the imagination, I don’t think it’s a ridiculous assumption that many of Rangers fans who choose to peruse this site are mildly or even dramatically influenced by what is written.
Adam chooses which articles are posted (at least in the main section). He also generally presents them with a slant (e.g. ‘Jim Reeves confuses me’ ). We can make up our own mind how we feel about what is written and I wouldn’t argue that we are lambs who are unable to think for ourselves. But in the blog community, despite the common disagreements, often similar views are shared amongst a group. I think that is the case here.
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Jan 13, 2009 6:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo, Haeger Champ.
In no way was I being critical of Adam or Jamey but I happen to disagree with them from time to time and I’m not afraid to express said opinion.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam and Jamey
I think they also disagree with each other from time to time. I don’t think there’s some organized “groupthink” between the two, or among the community on either site.
And I also don’t think that weighing the evidence, and coming to an independent conclusion that Daniels has the team on the right path, makes one a mindless sheep happy to accept whatever party line the team throws us as fans.
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Jan 13, 2009 6:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam and I disagree a LOT.
But he’s in the top two or three on my list of whose Rangers opinions I want to take time to read.
by Jamey Newberg on Jan 13, 2009 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
My opinions seem to get
read quite a bit as well, Jamey.
:)
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because they're all over the f'n place
It’s like goddamn wallpaper. No matter how ugly it is, you have to notice.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 13, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
that being said...
Josey, it does seem like you’re either quicker to disagree or louder in your disagreements. Sometimes it appears you do so simply for the sake of disagreeing. Nonetheless, you’re entitled to your opinion… as long as AJM allows you to post here ;)
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Jan 13, 2009 6:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Haeger Champ, Simply disagreeing
for the sake of doing it would be shtick. I’m pretty unwavering with my opinions and if this thing ever gets turned around (which I hope it does) under JD’s watch, I will need to backpedal but for the most part my opinions on this thing have been largely dead solid perfect (good and bad) for several years.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that's not what he said
he said that we agree with them because they are our leaders – which is ridiculous.
this is a fucking internet blog – nobody is intimidated/scared of posting anything. we are all strangers
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 6:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
abo3, Reality check here. When I think of LSB sheep, your name comes up first
and I’m sure you get your wool shorn every couple of weeks followed by a couple of “atta-boy” pats on the head.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 7:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
God
You’ve got to be the most pathetic person I’ve ever encountered.
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Internet encounters, of course.
I hardly leave my apartment.
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 13, 2009 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you mean your mothers basement?
Did Jon Daniels downsize your old position at Dunking Donuts?
by lonestarJon on Jan 13, 2009 8:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Boy, I wouldn't agree with that at all
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
your atta boys have only been coming once a month tops
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 7:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
from who?
I disagree with adam about lots of things – pretty vigorously at times. But that’s not really the point.
The point is that when I state an opinion, I back it up with logic. LOGIC. Something that completely escapes you at every turn. I don’t parrot Adam’s logic, I use my own. I used to follow Adam somewhat blindly when it came to stats but then I realized the websites out there that I can read to come to my own conclusions so I don’t even really use him for that.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
abo3, so all these scary predictions that I've made that somehow
came true happened because I didn’t use logic?
Really- just wild ass guesses that just so happened to come true?
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 7:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Hah.
He’s right ab. Here’s the syllogistic proof:
Bad teams don’t win many games.
The Rangers are a bad team.
The Rangers won’t win many games.
Now go find that profound shit in some Bill James book.
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or you could be like me
and say in January 2007 that the Texas Rangers had 75 Win talent (they went 75-87)when just about everybody else thought different, ie Evan Grant said they’d win 90 games citing “Ron Washington’s influence”
Miss you on XM with Steiner, Evan!!
Then last year in January when Billy Beane was trading everything in sight I said that the A’s would still win at least 75 games because of the veteran infrastructure in place (they went 75-86).
I’ll tell you more if you want.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 7:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh God yes
I can’t get enough of those amazing insights.
Veteran infrastructure??? JESUS CHRIST WHY DIDN’T EVERYBODY THINK OF THAT!?
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what veteran infrastructure?
and Cahill and Martin have you beat on Ranger pessimism. it’s not really a matter of logic
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what predictions?
you keep saying that you make awesome predictions but if they are just, “The Rangers will play sub – 500 ball,” I’m not really impressed. Everybody made those predictions.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 7:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Rubbish.
He also went way out on a limb and predicted that Cruz would suck a mere matter of years after Cruz demonstrated that he sucks.
Give the man his due.
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
naw, gardener
I saw Cruz’s obp in his first 100 plate appearances, looked at his age and determined he can’t play.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 7:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And what an amazing
Eye for talent you obviously have.
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 7:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lets remember that one
seeing as how he did get a 420 OBP last year in 130 PA
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 7:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I'll be eventually proven wrong
per Cruz but he turns 29 years old this July and still hasn’t had a good year in The Show.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But what about
his ability to play the Great Game.
By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw
by Gdawg on Jan 13, 2009 7:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I made it! Sweet!
Give me Sheets or give me Offseason Blues Part III.
by Chase Irwin on Jan 13, 2009 7:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
<img src=“http://cdn-”http://www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/moran.jpg" target="_blank">www.cracked.com/articleimages/wong/moran.jpg"/>
mormons stole me and held me against my will with Oklahoma beer and 12+ hour work days.
by Jayslick on Jan 13, 2009 8:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure that's accurate
It seems to me that there are many supporters of JD inside and outside the DFW area. I think it’s the small-minded people that simply look at W/L records, refuse to look at anything else in an organization, and decide that the GM has to be the one at fault.
Nothing pithy here. Please move long.
by WyoRanger on Jan 13, 2009 6:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wyoranger,
there are all those bad trades, hiring and then extending Ron Washington, giving Young that extension with this payroll…
no, I think most of baseball thinks JD is a stupid sonofabitch.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
You are absolutely out of your mind.
by jthig32 on Jan 13, 2009 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think the major league players
in the Ranger organization respect JD?
I didn’t think so and Mench confirmed that today.
Part of the problem with MY was who they sent to convey the message – somebody that nobody respects.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch!
My eyes hurt from the unfiltered truth!
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 6:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And by the way
if Mike Young is a representation of the intelligence level of the major league players then I don’t give a flying fuck who they respect.
by jthig32 on Jan 13, 2009 6:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So
If Nolan had told Young, “you’re moving to third next year, like it or not,” Young would have accepted it without question?
"I dont care to debate with a troll." - Sharky
by RCCook on Jan 13, 2009 6:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Without questioning the move?
Probably not, especially when the replacement just turned 20 years old and made 32 errors in AA with an OPS significantly below .750.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If Young was really a team player.
He would be more than happy to move to third and try to teach the new guy everything he knows to make the team better. But he’s not so that’s that.
You dick that was uncalled for - male cheerleader
by iorange555 on Jan 13, 2009 6:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Young is a team player...
that’s why he moved to SS in the first place, sorry no sale.
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 13, 2009 6:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
what does the casual fan know about JD?
he’s gotten rid of(or allowed them to leave):
Soriano
Teix
Chris Young
Danks
DeRosa
Volquez
et al.
and brought in:
Hamilton
?
at this point all of JD’s work is in the minors, a place where casual fans don’t look. Let a few more Crash Davis’ hit the ML club and the generic fan will start showing some love for JD.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Jan 13, 2009 8:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
brought in
byrd, murphy, millwood, padilla, harrison, saltalamacchia
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Jan 13, 2009 8:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
put your list
up against the “no longer here list” and its easy to see why ML Ranger fans are unhappy with Daniels. If minor leagues are not taken into account JD doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
Now, quite clearly the minors must be included in any evaluation of a GM its just that the average fan knows NOTHING about the minors. I ask friends every day if they are getting excited about Feliz, Andrus, Holland, et. al. and they NEVER know who in the hell I’m talking about.
I don’t however hold it against them. I think it is TOO much to ask of the casual fan to be aware of what is going on down in AA.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Jan 13, 2009 10:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree it's too much to expect of them.
But they should be aware they know less than you.
by philkid3 on Jan 13, 2009 11:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what the dude I was talking to on Baseball Fever pretty much had as his point of view.
To him, the Teixeira trade is only good because it got rid of Teixeira and JD has done absolutely nothing.
It was maddening to talk to him.
by philkid3 on Jan 13, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly...
this is very true.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jan 13, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm so glad...
all this shit came out with MY. I really had my doubts about JD and Nolan asking him to make the move. Not only did they do it though, they did it a year earlier than I expected. Get all this shit out of the way now. The sooner MY is moved to 3B or that contract is dealt the better. Although I would like it if he stayed and stopped being such a giant vagina and just played 3B. It will be near impossible to move that contract and get any value for him and then people will just have more to bitch about with the Rangers unloading their all star players.
I thought MY would have a problem with being asked to move again, but I never thought he would make this big of a deal out of it. Still, It would be a little sad to see him play for another team. He had been my favorite Ranger since Pudge left, ’til last year.
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jan 13, 2009 6:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I can't wait till this is over!!
Seriously, I’ve never read so many comments in so many threads. It is hard to keep up with this. So can this hopefully be done……soon?
The bloggerformelyknownasBigBaddBubbaJ
by NYTXFAN on Jan 13, 2009 6:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Finally something to come to LSB and read about here.
And I thought it was the Angels that ended its off season badly.
Recipient of the 2008 "The Iron Man" award from scottnak of Halos Heaven!
by 44FAN on Jan 13, 2009 6:46 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
our offseason hasn't ended
and the Angels did end theirs poorly.
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Jan 13, 2009 6:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh...
The Halos wouldn’t by chance want another shitty contract would they?
"The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance."-Socrates
by slc ranger on Jan 13, 2009 7:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
yours hasn't ended
you’ll probably end up signing Sheets and getting a subsidized Young. bastards
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 7:25 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Did everyone see
TR’s new post on MLB.com?
Sorry if it was posted elsewhere, but it said something interesting:
It is also not guaranteed that Andrus will be the Opening Day shortstop. The Rangers still have Joaquin Arias as an alternative.
So, the move for MY is not a question of when… it’s now… whether Elvis is ready or not.
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Jan 13, 2009 6:48 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
i don't think he knows what he's talking about
at least in terms of Arias. I agree though that I have seen nothing absolute saying that Elvis is the opening day SS if MY isn’t there.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 6:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
but, in theory...
you’d be thrilled to find out that Joaquin could make the throw from short to 1st on a consistent basis, correct?
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Jan 13, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be great, IMO
I have nothing to say
by rldwb on Jan 13, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
I guess his range never went away so he would figure to be a better SS than Young if he could make the throw.
I’d punt on SS offense at this point.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 6:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d punt on SS offense at this point.
That’s exactly why I’d live with Omar Vizquel for a year.
by philkid3 on Jan 13, 2009 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
I doubt Arias is a realistic option. Based on what I’ve heard, at least, his shoulder is still a problem.
by Joey Matschulat on Jan 13, 2009 9:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks Joey
so, we shouldn’t expect him to be on the 25 man roster out of camp if he can only backup Kinsler (and, I guess Davis) should we?
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Jan 13, 2009 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like Young is going to 3B
or sitting on the bench or going to be traded
Not much of a chance for him to start at SS if he is already the 3rd option.
by laxtonto on Jan 13, 2009 6:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been kinda lurking in the background on the situation.....
But..Let’s see. You have this guy on your team, the consummate “team player”. He has switched positions before to help the team, played through injuries and has become the “Face of the Franchise” in the process. However, at the same time his production at the plate has steadily been in decline and he has always been a very average fielder at short.
So now the team has a hot, up and coming short stop whom they believe could be ready for the big leagues in 2009, whom they want to have major league experience for 2010, a year they are gearing towards being a legitimate contender. Supposedly he is a playmaker on defense, has a great work ethic and all the coaches and scouts are high on him. Add to this the fact that the team is currently unsure of what to do at third base, either short term or long term. Neither Metcalf nor Blalock are the answer.
J.D. and the rest of management looks at the situation and determines that perhaps moving Young to third would fix two problems at once: Young could be a decent third basemen and you bring up your young shortstop to learn under the bright lights. The problem: your ultimate team player balks at the request and demands a trade. He cites his 5 time all-star status at short and his recent gold glove. He says how he has always sacrificed for the team and now it’s time for this team to make it up to him and respect his wishes.
Nevermind the fact that he is being seriously overpaid as a top short stop in MLB, when his numbers have been on a steady decline and are well below the elite level. Pay no attention to the All-Star numbers, since every MLB team is required to have someone at the game. So for a few of those selections, Young was just the best player on a crappy team.
At some point in all this, the Rangers need to stand firm in their vision for the direction they want this franchise to go. You can’t fault a G.M for at least striving to reach a goal of fielding a contending team, and for trying to get it’s best young players experience. If some of those moves don’t work, you learn from it and move on…..but at least they tried. By my count, at least this team is trying something to break away from mediocrity is spite of Tom Hicks. They need to stand by their decision and not worry about kissing the overpaid hiney of M. Young.
And Mr. Young: I have always like you. I have two of your jerseys and got your autograph last year. You werer a nice guy and accommodating to the fans. That’s why this stand of yours tastes so bad. Think about it, and really try to figure out what is best for both yourself, and the team that is paying you more than anyone else possibly would.
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Jan 13, 2009 7:04 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
that's it in a nutshell
(although, I think Young did deserve all of the All Star appearances. Maybe a couple were questionable but I dont’ think any were egregious. He absolutely did not deserve the Gold Glove).
Are you going to continue to post on BTB and maintain another blog?
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A new Dallas Stars blog on SBN should be up by Thursday.
I’ll be running that now. My time at BTB has really opened up some opportunities and led me to be able to do this Stars blog. I’ll still do a guest spot on BTB every now and then, as well as producing the podcast.
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Jan 13, 2009 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
sweet
looking forward to it
giggety
by hotshot215 on Jan 13, 2009 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Stars analogy
Mike Modano was asked last season to take over the checking line role. This was a much more selfless move than Young is being asked to make, plus he won his team a stanley cup as its greatest star, plus he’s not being overpaid but underpaid. He agreed without complaining publicly.
by Brett Perryman on Jan 13, 2009 7:10 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats a great analogy...
I’m trying not to come down to hard on MY, yet I find I have little sympathy. This world is filled with people making sacrifices, changing jobs, positions and doing it all in the name of the “team”. I have done that plenty of times myself and while I grumble and moan under my breath, I still do the best I can at what I’m being asked to do. It’s called self-pride. And I know that we can’t expect every big time sports star making millions of dollars to make selfless decisions for the team, the fact remains that some do and it usually works out well for everyone involved.
I’m just surprised this is happening with Young, and it’s rubbed me the wrong way.
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Jan 13, 2009 7:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think what we are kind of downplaying
is the fact that Young won the Gold Glove and he might actually think he is the best defensive SS in the league.
It makes a lot more sense for a player to express outrage and act the way Young is doing if he thinks he is not only better than the guy coming up but better than everybody else. In other words, he thinks management is completely wrong in their assessment of the situation and is fighting them because he worked so hard to become the best defensive SS and management is going to squander that effort
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 7:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
Admittedly, I got involved in the Cowboys season and kind of lost myself in regards to the Rangers for a bit. So I learned he won the GG about a month after the fact. I was absolutely floored.
But you’re right, that’s probably the biggest factor in him resisting change. He can tout that shiny new gold glove as evidence that he shouldn’t move. But let’s say that perform a certain activity: I’m ok at it, a get paid a TON to do it, and I’m fairly recognized for doing it pretty much ok. Then I get an award that says I’m the best at doing it (for that year). However, deep inside I still know that I’m just ok at it. Now my boss says to me the guy coming up behind me is doing a better job than I am at it and getting paid a fraction of my salary for doing it. They ask me to move a bit to maximize my average ability and let this new kid tear it up in my old spot. My pride is hurt. I know that if this kid shows up, then my shortcomings will be even more apparent than before, and my award for being the best somehow won’t count as much.
Wah.
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Jan 13, 2009 7:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
very plausible as well
but when you would hear Young talk about his defense, it really sounded like he actually believed he was really good.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 8:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh well then...
I can’t help crazy.
Defending Big D: A Dallas Stars blog: easy to use, free to join.
by Brandon Worley on Jan 13, 2009 8:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
better yet
how about when they took the C away from Mike and gave it to Morrow?
of course that was none too pleasing to Willa Ford.
"You’re the worst poster here I think."--- brettgardner
by red shoe ranger on Jan 13, 2009 8:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Or....
When Hitchcock came to Dallas, told Modano that the team was switching from a scoring philosophy to a defensive philosophy, and Modano (who at the time could have scored over 40 goals a season and 100 points because he was just that much of an offensive force) agreed and bought in to Hitchcock’s system and turned his game from offense to defense. Soon, it brought him a Cup…
Maybe we should get Young to contact Modano then…
In Smoak We Trust
by Smoak Some on Jan 13, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Young would never have been happy about moving from SS to 3B, but
I do think it is a tall order to ask him to do it for a guy who hadn’t played above AA and add on top of that that Young would be expected to mentor his replacement. How many times has that scenario ever happened?
I don’t know if Hicks completely ruled out bringing in a veteran FA, or if that was a decision made largely by JD. I think they might have had less likelihood of a trade demand had they explained their desire to improve the left-side of the infield by bringing in a veteran player who was a credible improvement over Young.
It’s foolish to think would’ve happily said ‘yes’ under any circumstance, and I do think that groveling would’ve been of no help, but JD et al. are not without blame in asking Young to do something that is very, very rarely asked of All Star players, if it has ever been requested at all.
2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!
by rooster on Jan 13, 2009 8:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I still think it happens more than you are giving credit for
people are moved around the OF all the time, people are moved around the IF all the time. I think the only thing that complicates this is that Young thinks he is a good fielder.
People don’t readily give up their starting positions for prospects, that definitely does not happen. And generally, people don’t like being moved to DH. But moving positions does happen a lot.
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 8:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Now I'm confused
but JD et al. are not without blame in asking Young to do something that is very, very rarely asked of All Star players, if it has ever been requested at all
So does that mean the only way JD could be without blame is to not ask Young to change positions?
by cstorm15 on Jan 13, 2009 9:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, no. If it hadn't escalated to the point of Young wanting out, JD is without blame, but then
there is nothing to lay blame over.
The Rangers are trying to keep Young here. Nolan has come back with ideas to indicate it wasn’t a request intended to be taken as a directive. I hadn’t considered that that was the totality of their strategy all along, and if it works, meaning Young isn’t traded, then it was an effective strategy and I would say JD successfully managed a difficult situation.
This is my thought process. JD has made a plan with Young at the center of it. Being that he is the general manager, he must implement the plan, which means he must consider the response by others to his proposal and he must manage the consequences of the response.
If he didn’t foresee that Young might request a trade, then he made the mistake of misreading Young.
If he did foresee that Young might request a trade and his strategy for trying to get Young to cool down was to send in Nolan, I’d have to think a little more about whether I thought there was a reasonable chance that Nolan would’ve been able to help matters. It might end up working out somewhat the way they want, but without the complete cooperation of Young.
If he did foresee that Young might request a trade, I would like to find out if he considered the possibility that by bringing in a veteran Young might still be reluctant but might not reject it to the point of requesting a trade. If he didn’t think it mattered whether it was a veteran or Andrus, I would just have to be happy with his analysis. He’s the expert.
But, in that case, he should never have made a plan with Young at the center of it but instead he should’ve looked for the opportune moment to trade Young or Andrus.
He made a strategic mistake somewhere along the line. If his plan was to center Andrus’ development around Young’s mentoring skills, he has bungled the implementation of it. If he thought Young would want out when directed to move, then he drew up a plan that was designed to fail from the outset.
2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!
by rooster on Jan 13, 2009 9:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
You realize you've changed your argument, right?
We’ve been going back and forth all day, and you just now present this idea that Young was the linchpin in Andrus’s development. Before, you were arguing that JD was to blame for this PR nightmare and that if Young was traded JD would be fired. You’ve abandoned the argument that JD was responsible for Young’s unprofessionalism and are now arguing something completely different.
Are you now suggesting that the Rangers shouldn’t have moved Young to 3b if it meant that Young wouldn’t agree to mentor Andrus?
And you do know that trading Young is not an option, right? You keep saying that JD should have considered trading Young instead depending on X, Y, and Z scenarios. Those aren’t the options.
There are only two options: keep Young happy at shortstop, or move him to 3b. That’s it. You can dream up all sorts of “well he should have thought about X, even though it may not have mattered” scenarios. If you agree that Young had to move to 3b, then you have to accept that Young was going to get pissed off. At this point, it’s clear that you have no answer for how JD could have handled the situation without pissing Young off (other than not moving him to 3b).
by cstorm15 on Jan 13, 2009 9:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I still think that JD could be fired, and I still think that JD might not have understood
the potential magnitude of the response his request to Young could provoke. If we were granted an insider’s view of the discussion, one possibility still remains that he made a mistake in judging how Young would react. I’m certain he didn’t want Young to react this way.
My argument is changing a bit because new information continues to be revealed, like the interview with JD that just posted.
Again, I’ve agreed all along that Young was gonna get pissed off. I’m arguing (more like trying to analyze) how it got to the point that Young wanted a trade. JD certainly never wanted that to happen, but as more and more information comes out I think JD unintentionally provoked it to some extent by requesting such a drastic change.
As more information comes to light, JDs misread of Young seems like an even graver mistake in the context that JD had planned for Young to be the central figure in expediting the learning process for Andrus. And, since I agree with your assertion that trading Young is not an option, the consequences of his misread are far worse than just having a failed plan of action.
I have never said that Young’s response was entirely due to JD. I meant to say that JD was to blame to some extent and that he could’ve made other choices that might have reduced the possibility that Young would want out.
Yes. The best course forward with Young on the team is to move him to 3B, unless by trading Andrus an Ace could be brought back in return.
2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!
by rooster on Jan 13, 2009 10:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
i still don't get what you are talking about
what if he had read it correctly? what was the right course of action?
Mandatory reading before suggesting a trade
by ab03 on Jan 13, 2009 10:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
To sum this all up
JD must have screwed up because Young demands a trade. You don’t know how JD screwed up or what JD could have done differently, but he must have done something wrong because now we have a PR nightmare. Thus, he must share some fault.
Am I close?
by cstorm15 on Jan 13, 2009 10:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. You've pretty much got it.
JD never wanted to trade Young. This fact was apparent even when all we knew was that Young had requested a trade. So, if the goal is to not trade Young, a mistake must’ve been made if the approach taken with Young results in a request to be traded. I can’t imagine a GM thinking, “we can get Young to move to 3B and mentor Andrus even if we anger him to the point that he wants to be traded.” It would be a mistake to plan to do it in that way. I can imagine a GM thinking, “we need to do this in a way that won’t anger Young to the point he wants to be traded”. It is a mistake that it escalated to this level.
It might be that the mistakes made can be righted. I think a conciliatory tone from JD concerning the timing and presentation of the request might help, if Young is being honest about the main issue.
As more information comes out about how the other players feel about Young’s reaction, it appears less and less that even if Young is traded it will have a large negative impact on the mindset of the young players, and the plan to be ready in 2010, except that the JD’s catalyst for Andrus’ development will be gone. Even though a trade would have negative payroll consequences, if it hasn’t derailed the commitment of the young players, I think JD’s job is safe until we see the outcome of 2010.
2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!
by rooster on Jan 13, 2009 11:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, speaking of pride
You’re too proud to realize that you have no argument.
So, if the goal is to not trade Young, a mistake must’ve been made if the approach taken with Young results in a request to be traded.
Young requested a trade, and you’re saying that the only explaination is that JD must have screwed up. I’m trying to be nice, but that’s absurd. Young’s unprofessional conduct could be caused by a thousand combination of factors, the most likely of which is that Young is being an arrogant ass whose pride can’t handle a demotion to 3b. There’s nothing JD could have done to keep Young from demanding a trade other than not move Young to 3b, yet you just can’t accept that. Somehow, someway, it must be JD’s fault.
And what’s worse is that it’s the one explaination that you have no evidence to support. You’ve gone through way too much effort to blame JD for someone who can’t identify what he did wrong. I can only guess that you’re blaming JD just to salvage your original argument.
by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 12:08 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
No. Not the only explanation. Part of the explanation.
I have not once in all of the postings claimed that this is entirely JDs fault. I have never once said that Young is not at fault. In fact, I have said that Young is being a dick and has taken a view that is not well founded in an objective or large picture perspective.
I don’t care if you’re nice to me. But, you should be aware that you can’t accept the fact that there may have been steps JD could’ve taken to more gracefully move Young to 3B. There are alternative scenarios that could’ve been played. You are fooling yourself if you are convinced that in each of them there was without-a-doubt nothing that JD could’ve done to prevent a trade request from Young.
I will admit that Michael Young might be lying about what is bothering him, and I am working through this by taking him at face value. You haven’t proven he is lying, but you seem to believe you have.
Let’s say Young is lying. There is nothing JD could’ve done to prevent a trade request from Young. JD still made a mistake either by misreading Young (and, therefore, not planning for what he would do in the event of a trade request) or by being willing to accept the risk of having to deal with a trade request at a time when he could not leverage a decent trade. If the latter is considered an acceptable risk rather than a risk that is a mistake to take, we have a disagreement on management philosophy.
At this point, JD can no longer control whether Young moves to 3B (because Nolan said there would not be an ultimatum out of respect for Young), and he can not trade Young. It was a mistake to put himself at risk for this situation. This does not mean that I am saying Young should dictate when he makes his move to 3B. JD makes the decision, but he can only make the decision if he has the option to trade Young if Young is reluctant. Otherwise, Young is a disgruntled SS, until the time comes that he can be traded.
2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!
by rooster on Jan 14, 2009 1:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Then please provide another part of the explaination that makes sense
I’ve never accussed you of saying that JD was entirely at fault or that Young was not at fault. We know that Young is at fault. Yet you are assuming that JD must also be at fault.
All you have to say is “JD screwed up because he did X.” Just fill in that blank. And don’t change the wording. Don’t say “JD screwed up because he possibly might not have considered X” because you can’t prove that. No more of this hindsight reasoning. No more saying that JD must somehow be at fault because he might have misread Young’s passion for shortstop or something. That’s just not sound logic.
You are fooling yourself if you are convinced that in each of them there was without-a-doubt nothing that JD could’ve done to prevent a trade request from Young.
There’s only one scenario where JD could have prevented a trade request from Young: not move Young to 3b. That’s the only scenario we know. You are assuming that somehow there was a right combination of steps where JD could have moved JD to 3b without Young being selfish. Until you can actually prove that, then you shouldn’t say JD was somehow at fault. To use a bad analogy: its like when two cars are in an accident, driver A admits full liability, and yet driver A’s insurance says that driver B was 20% at fault simply because he was on the road.
Let’s say Young is lying. There is nothing JD could’ve done to prevent a trade request from Young. JD still made a mistake either by misreading Young (and, therefore, not planning for what he would do in the event of a trade request) or by being willing to accept the risk of having to deal with a trade request at a time when he could not leverage a decent trade. If the latter is considered an acceptable risk rather than a risk that is a mistake to take, we have a disagreement on management philosophy.
You need to accept Young’s trade request for what it is: a PR mess, not a legitimate trade request. Young’s contract has zero to negative trade value, and Young only gave JD a handful of teams that he’d ok a trade to anyways. You are talking as if its the trade request that JD should have avoided, but it’s not. You want JD to avoid making Young angry, and this trade request is merely a symptom of that anger. So stop saying things like “JD wasn’t prepared to trade Young” because it shows how you are completely misreading the situation.
But here’s what disturbs me. Earlier, you said you agreed with the baseball decision to move Young to 3b. But now you’re saying that if JD cannot move Young to 3b without Young creating a PR mess, then JD should have kept Young at shortstop. Now, I’m not a violent person, but I’d like to slap you in the face. Think about what you are suggesting. You want to give Young a veto power over management. If Young disagrees with a decision that is in the best longterm interests of the team, all he has to do is go to the press. That is a terrible, terrible, terrible management philosophy.
by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 8:07 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
rooster = Jim Reeves?
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 14, 2009 8:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bring in Vizquel
is there a better mentor for Elvis?
I guess you heard Fat Joe left Atlantic.
by Haeger Champ on Jan 13, 2009 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JD answers more questions:
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2009/01/daniels-answers-more-questions.html
"Fuck Michael Young" -Coolaid
by Kinslerhomer on Jan 13, 2009 9:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I'm a little surpised that Daniels has made himself so available since this story broke.
Makes me think that he feels like he has nothing to be ashamed of, that he’s confident in his actions. I like that.
"Please. What the hell do you know about starting a sports-related website and then deciding to leave it to work on other things and then? How dare you, sir." -- Michael Schur, aka FireJoeMorgan's Ken Tremendous, to Will Leitch
by ghtd36 on Jan 13, 2009 9:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. JD is being a class act in this mess.
Why does MY look like the jackass in all of this? Because of exchanges like this during JD’s interview:
Q: What about some of the criticism that Michael has had on the web, like with Buster Olney’s blog, where it looks like he’s losing the PR battle?
A: I think that’s unfortunate. I think the guy is allowed to have his reaction to something like this. Anybody who’s been around Michael knows he’s a tremendous person, a big member of the community. I do think that’s unfortunate and that’s certainly not coming from us and won’t. I’ve talked to our sales group and our guys and you won’t hear a negative word about Michael Young from the Rangers. He’s a big part of what we’re doing and will be going forward.
That’s class. That’s what we were used to hearing from MY, and it’s the kind of attitude I hope we can hear from him again.
by Athos on Jan 13, 2009 9:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JD has and will always be a class act.
It’s time for another extension.
Stability is key, and JD is a Beast.
Jindal - 2012
The Wrestler
by Longhorn on Jan 13, 2009 10:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think JD is doing the right thing. But,
I still don’t think it is enough to bring Young around when he says
A: I know a lot’s been made of that as far as asked versus told. I think it’s a little bit of semantics, but I understand how Michael took it. He took it to heart. We feel it’s the best interest of the team for him to move to third base. That’s how we presented it and how we explained it and there’s no doubt about it that that’s what we want and feel needs to happen.
Young is quoted as that issue being the main point of discontent. Young could be lying. If he isn’t, it seems like JD needs to say something more than “it’s a little bit of semantics” and “I understand how Michael took it”. He needs to say something like “I wish there was a more convenient time to make this move” or something that is more of an apology to Young about how the request was presented in a way that ended up seeming disrespectful, even if the disrespect was unintentional. The reason he needs to do this is that it is in JDs self-interest as much as anything, because JD needs Young to come around and be Andrus’ mentor, at least that is what JD has claimed. To say, “I did not intend to disrespect you, and I apologize for not giving more thought to the way I could show more respect for your opinion” is a really simple thing to do that could drastically improve Young’s mood.
I sure would like to see the following question asked:
“Did you think there was any risk at all of the outcome that Michael would ask to be traded when presented with this scenario?”
JD is doing a great job of saying that he has nothing but respect for Young, and he’s doing a nice job of trying to keep the media off Young. I think JD is doing everything he can to clean this up.
As far as the team’s performance in 2009 is concerned… I don’t think that I agree that the Rangers are improving their chances in 2009 with Andrus on the field.
2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!
by rooster on Jan 13, 2009 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
So now we've moved on from JD didn't ask right to JD isn't apologizing right
First, you’ll notice that JD isn’t speaking directly to Young through the media. He isn’t saying “you” and isn’t making direct statements. Rather, he’s talking about the situation and about Young (in a very positive manner). Instead, JD left a message with Young and called his agent, and you’d assume they’ll talk again soon. So to say that he isn’t apologizing right is a bit premature.
It’s funny because I’ve never seen so much nitpicking about how someone is performing a task. You need to go back and reread what you’ve written and ask yourself whether JD’s job should really be at jeopardy over this. You’ve spent all day and you still can’t establish one thing that JD has actually done wrong. That’s your answer: JD’s job should not be at risk over Young’s reaction because JD did nothing wrong.
But there’s another troubling point. You can’t expect JD to apologize for not asking first because this is not a topic where Young is free to disagree. It’s not his decision. Pretending that Young has some say in moving to 3b is a lie, and it won’t work to make Young feel better. You are reading Young’s comments as if he’s more concerned with the way he was asked, but you can’t honestly believe that’s why he’s “adamant” against playing 3b. If JD apologizes too much, it sends the message that management did not make the right decision and that maybe Young is correct. Young is not correct. Management should be sympathetic, but they cannot send the message that Young’s ego is more important than the team.
Oh and this cracked me up:
He needs to say something like "I wish there was a more convenient time to make this move"
From Nolan:
"Obviously when Elvis came into the system, there had been speculation at some point in time that the request would come down. It was one of those situations that you didn’t know the time frame on it because it depended on Elivs’ development. It’s unfortuatne the timing is as it is this year with Michael coming off an outstanding season where he won a Gold Glove and was an All-Star. We feel with Elvis’ talents and Michael’s ability that it made sense to move Michael to third to try to put the best team on the field possible."
by cstorm15 on Jan 13, 2009 11:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you hounding me? Why is my opinion so important?
Yes. I am taking Young’s comments at face value. He said last season he couldn’t imagine a discussion about moving to 3B occurring in the near future, not specifying what he meant by “near”. His comment regarding his trade request is that he was not asked to move but instead told to move. He clearly felt disrespected. I think you want me to say that the trade request was unavoidable and completely out of JDs control. It wasn’t completely out of his control.
Yes. The tone of Nolan’s response was right on. I think it’s important for Young to hear this tone from JD, not only from Nolan, since Young works directly with JD and JD started the conversation. JD has not said similar words in public. All JD has to say is that he wishes he could’ve found a more respectful tone in his initial request. He can even simply say “I presented this in a naive and ultimately disrespectful way. I am sorry for that, even though my intent was not to be disrespectful to Michael Young.” I literally believe this would have a chance to help repair Young’s perception of JD.
I also literally believe that Young would be angry but would not have requested a trade if the tone had been correct from his perspective from the beginning. Maybe the appropriate “tone” meant giving him the chance to compete against Elvis or sliding him over to 3B to accommodate a well respected veteran or or to wait until after 2009 or to present it like Nolan did. I don’t know. Only Michael Young can tell us. I fully take Young at his word. The problem isn’t that he won’t play 3B, but that it isn’t happening on his terms (ie, "asked"), and he sees that as a sign of disrespect.
A gesture of disrespect so large that Michael Young would want to be traded is a mistake, even if the disrespect was unintentional, might have been made from what might have been a naive approach, and could be argued that it was made for the sake of improving the team. It is likewise a mistake to not make public amends when the act of disrespect is clearly stated. If Young is lying on that point, it will become apparent by his response to JDs conciliatory statement, but the upside potential is that Young could feel less disrespected.
I am not advocating that JD drop the idea that Young should move to 3B. I think Young may not move to 3B if Nolan is serious about not imposing ultimatums. I think JD is handling the media very well. It is very appropriate for him to lay out the organizational perspective on how the personnel should be played, and I like that he is giving public props to Young. I think JD is making a mistake by not having a single conciliatory statement. But, it may not cost him his job. It depends on how stunted the development of the team is by having to deal with the fallout.
I can’t invest any more time in answering your questions, but it is not out of disrespect. I can say that in a situation this messy it is my belief that there is zero chance that one party is blameless.
2009? Forget it. It's all about 2010. Go Rangers!
by rooster on Jan 14, 2009 1:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well it's because I hate my project at work...
That, and I think your analysis is completely unreasonable. You have jumped through so many hoops just to try and place some blame on JD. It’s very entertaining.
And I can see why. If both sides screwed up, then they can come back to each other and say “I’m sorry” and reach some sort of agreement. And maybe if JD was unreasonable, then we can have more sympathy for Young and his fragile ego. Unfortunately, this just isn’t one of those times. One party is right, and the other party is wrong. They don’t share fault.
Look, if you had just said that it was a mistake to move Young to 3b, I probably wouldn’t have cared. That’s questioning the baseball decision. We do that all the time here. But you’re trying to be on both sides of the argument: you agree with the baseball decision yet disagree with the result of that baseball decision. For me, the opportunity to destroy that argument was too good to pass up.
by cstorm15 on Jan 14, 2009 8:20 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nolans got his back
It certainly is apperant that JD has the backing of NR. He said all of the right things and I think there will be pressure put on MY to accept the move to 3B.
Elvis Andrus - 2009 AL Rookie of the Year
by RangerMad on Jan 13, 2009 10:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Daniels
One of the main things he seems to have learned from John Hart is how not to act when you are under fire.
When there was the slightest bit of heat, Hart hid, and ended up getting killed.
For better or for worse, when the heat is on, Daniels is out there fielding questions.
by Adam J. Morris on Jan 13, 2009 10:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well that does a pretty good job
of killing the theory that they wanted to get out from under his contract.
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 13, 2009 10:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
The birdman
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 9:58 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
What?
I hate him. He’s my absolute least favorite player in the NBA.
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 10:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Man
Denver is Marcus Camby away from being really, really good.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 10:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
They don't need
Camby at all. Their lineup is plenty potent with Nene. They’re very, very good. Not Lakers good, but possibly Western Conference Championship-game good.
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 10:21 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bass, nice.
On your boy.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 10:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
J.R. is killin my FG% tonight.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
god
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 10:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
That is some absolutely atrocious officiating right there.
Billups clearly led with the leg, and Denver clearly fouled Dirk on that last pass.
Terrible, terrible, terrible.
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 10:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Billups call was bullshit.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 10:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it doesn't matter much.
Dallas just sucks. Every day I have to accept that fact a little bit more.
I hope Augustin gets healthy quick so we can pull the trigger on that 3-way deal. Let’s work towards relief, bit by bit. We’re going nowhere fast right now.
by brettgardner on Jan 13, 2009 10:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
that call was BS.
F the NBA
"He will not coddle them. Nolan Ryan doesn’t coddle." - Jeff Passan
by Dirk Diggler on Jan 13, 2009 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
We've done such a terrible job of adding assets the last 4 years.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 13, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Raymond keeps playing like he did tonight
He ain’t going anywhere, at least not for what were giving up.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 12:15 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not that bad.
He takes a lot of shit because of the terrible terrible drafting of Charlotte, with their focus on “winners” instead of good players. He’s a pretty nice player. But I doubt they’ll extend him, he’s too short to play 2 extensively, and Augustin has made him expendable. Even if we don’t sign him, I’d be all for going after him when his contract’s up.
by brettgardner on Jan 14, 2009 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I see him as a 6th man type, in the mold of Barbosa. I’m suprised a Villanueva – Felton swap hasn’t been discussed.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 10:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Barbosa
Comparison is not bad. Felton has more PG skills and isn’t the absolute turnstile that Barbosa is, though.
by brettgardner on Jan 14, 2009 10:42 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Have any interest in Sean May?
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 2:48 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
He’s got talent. Last year’s numbers weren’t terrible.
He’s pretty huge, though.
by brettgardner on Jan 14, 2009 3:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But Cuban usually gets the best out of players.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 3:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't mind.
In other news, I see that Bradford is staying.
by brettgardner on Jan 14, 2009 3:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good for him.
"My mother always taught me that if the only thing you have to say is,
‘(Expletive) Dave Samson,’ then don’t say anything at all.
So I’m not going to say anything at all.
Is my mother the greatest or what?"
- Mariners GM Bill Bavasi, after signing Ichiro to a $90 million contract
by tyd3311 on Jan 14, 2009 5:08 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
the best way,
to have handled this situation, would have been to wait until andrus is ready (2010). a .702 aa ops and a projected 48 errors over a 162 season, is not a player who is ready, YET. leave it alone until after 09.
what does young’s 09 look like defensively? does his range take another hit and lose more D value? is he more inclined to agree with a move to 3B in 2010?
not overvaluing andrus’ readiness for 09, renting a 3B from FA market (1 yr, wiggington type?) and continuing to evaluate youngs D at ss (09), avoids the entire situation until andrus is actually worthy of pushing young off ss.
a self-induced headache, the org brought on themselves for 09. it at least it could have waited until the appropriate time.
by ball in play on Jan 14, 2009 11:35 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
excellent take, bip
"Dying ain't hard. It's living that's hard."
by Josey Wales on Jan 14, 2009 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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